it is sad to see how many people are arguing with this. honestly i have been playing and enjoying mmos since ultima online. Everything listed here are things people love to cry about and honestly they have ALLWAYS been in the games, hell the rng boxes date back to EQ2. people need to get over their own ego, if you do not like it then do not partake in it. No one is forcing you to buy the boxes, and i speak as a gambleing addict my self. i have managed to form some rules to help me from spending 100s on a box.
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5 things the people who run this site should stop doing.
1. Calling themselves journalists 2. Pretending to be actual gamers 3. Pretending they are anything but shills for dishonest developers 4. Censoring and banning people who are critical of shady developers 5. Cashing a paycheck when they can't do a simple upgrade because they refuse to invest in their site.
Complain or don't but money talks and people are walking away from MMOs despite the fact that we have more options than ever. There is a reason why the biggest companies in the west cancelled their big MMOs in development.
So I say keep complaining, and keep forbearing. Eventually they will figure out that the p2w fantasy lobby game casino simulators they are pumping out just aren't worth making and they can get back to making real MMORPGs.
1. localization and censorship, i find to be an interesting point. It seems the west in general does have a lot of influence on what is tolerated unless it just happens to be something of a social/cultural difference with skeletons.
At some point, the idea of skeletons will be not taboo in china, and then we can have more of the same game in WoW terms.
But I am thinking about gambling. for some reason in general gambling is seen as something terrible in a game that can take up too much time for a kid affecting thier life decisions, teen rated, and have some violence, gore, sexual themes, and some in direct form of gambling. I am wondering, when will it become acceptable for the west to agree to have gambling in their mmos?
2. Themepark vs sand box.
Of course there are a lot of choices, but depending on those choices we are giving something up to get another. And thats part of the problem in the market when for example we have a beloved IP and they follow the WoW clone model and do not differentiate from that too much. Big money makes certani kind of games.
f2p games makes for a certain caliber/quality as well.
If we could get the same quality of big games with big money in other games, then the statement of variety would be more true.
For example, is there a starwars like themed game sci-fi fantasy with lots of
alience races,
that is a nice blend with themepark and open world sand box
Lot of character creation options
Good story.
Actual choices (make story shorter),
open world pvp and an entire system to support that including crafting economy,
good raiding (open world raids included),
bounty hunting (placing bounties on anyone),
npc alignment and npc politics,
player created content (players create their own pvp maps, houses/puzzles etc)
mini games - sports, racing, card games
gambling
good combat
in star wars - there is this huge underworld fanstasy as well, and there is gambling, and bounty hunting, but in the teen rated world its very subtle.
So its not like asking for these things are unreasonable especially since it would fit the IP, but becuase a game is teen rated, or big money makes somehting more that the market would appreicate.
So while swtor does exist, it has good story and good combat, some fun raids and pvp maps, it has not evolved from that. It makes more of the same, with barely any more races, limited choice, limited open world pvp, no card games, no real bounty hunting, a static world of standing npcs, no day/night cycle (wow has this), and their game engine must be affecting their development as well with the issue of VO work since their last expansion was only a few hours of story for all 4/4 classes sharing the same similar story.
So may be in some cases there are more valid arguments than others when comparing to what big money can accomplish as well. And limited to a certain IP as well.
And while we should be ahppy with what we get, you cant help but wish for something that easily exist in an existing mmo or wonder why somehting is not progressing as it should (EA limits development of swtor)
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
The thing is... Between 10-15 years ago, the games that existed back then never had anything called "P2W". I played Tibia and yes, you had an advantage towards free account players when buying premium. But that was when doing a monthly subscription purchase... Not opening chests... Not buying potions to give you experience bonuses... Tibia just implemented purchasable potions to gain extra experience. Tragic.
I used to play Guild Wars Factions, WoW, Tibia, Darkfall, EVE... Either B2P or P2P and no P2W elements what so ever. I play nothing these days. This is the main reason.
1. taking names I want to use
2. pulling mobs before I can get to them
3. ninja looting all the loot, all the loot belongs to me!
4. wearing any outfit I want to wear, no duplicates allowed
5. playing the tank, I want to be the tank!
I agree that people should probably complain less, but I think that instead of complaining, they should just move on. There seems to be some assumption being made that people should just play and shut up. Instead, people should just not play and shut up. In other words, stop giving game companies that offend their sensibilities money.
Carebears and Noobs are a reason to complain about. Their constant complaints for example replaced open world pvp for hunting spots by risk free open world griefing in BDO.
And complaining that "pay to progress" in games like BDO where gear is a major factor in pvp outcome wouldn't be "pay to win" since others might get to the same strength after months/years of grinding/gambling is a bit short sighted. Youi could easily call it "pay to win for months/years (until the rest caught up)". Of course the publisher will release more "content" on a regular basis so that the P2Wers will spends more money to keep staying on top for a another while. When timing the updates right, the publisher can milk the P2W crowd constantly this way and keep their payers at the top of the food chain virtually forever. So no, the limits of what p2w actually is are not as easy to set as some think they are - especially with the "grind forever" type that BDO is.
As for sandboxes the only half way decent (i like my sandboxes to ALSO have pvp that requires some aiming, excell in in space ain't my thing) that I saw in years was DFUW (NOT DF!) which was a bit low on content, had devs with a weird focus and has shut down since. I hoped for BDO to have some sandbox elements, but all I got was a few silly single player mini games - and the first MMO that had no player market. I quickly had to realize that that game was THE ultimated single player themepark mmo. So I guess I will keep complaining for a few more years until I finally get what I want
I can get behind your points 2 & 4. That said, the issues that you bring forth there is simply one of different games being different. There is room for all types of games. Newbies should be welcomed yes, but newbies should also understand that some games in the genre will inherently be more difficult for those who have never played an MMO before.
All your other points boil down to companies putting either the player experience and their customers first or their own profit first. Apparently you are inclined to support companies who put their profit on the table first.
There is something to be said for that. Some people, like Sovrath above me here, argue that it's just the way it is and that it's needed to keep the industry alive and thriving.
But I simply fundamentally disagree with that notion. In fact, I firmly believe that putting your companies profit before your game / players will hurt not only your players, but also your profit in the end.
It's a paradigm which has been changing for a long time in the rest of the world. Putting your company's goals and products first THEN thinking about profit will lead to more profit in the end.
I'm not saying that it's not possible to do that with loot boxes or various payment models. But very often the value for the player or the game economy is probably not on the mind of the people implementing them. While really it should be: a happy customer will keep playing and paying and perhaps more importantly: complain less.
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I agree that people should probably complain less, but I think that instead of complaining, they should just move on. There seems to be some assumption being made that people should just play and shut up. Instead, people should just not play and shut up. In other words, stop giving game companies that offend their sensibilities money.
The "stop playing" thing comes organically. There's no need to advise people to stop playing something they don't like.
In general I think the whole idea of telling people to "shut up" is pretty silly. People say it clutters the forum so people enjoying/playing the game can't talk about it.
Everyone's free to post love threads as much as hate threads, it's just naturally rare. If you're playing a game you love, you're going to be spending your time playing it. If you have nothing to play and are bored, you're going to bitch about it on some forum.
I guess I can kind of see where Bill is coming from. MMORPG.com forums have gotten pretty damn negative. I couldn't say whether it's because of the state of MMORPGs in general or just because it's become a place where people go to bitch about them. Probably a little of both.
In any case, you guys are assuming that if the negative content is eliminated, it will be replaced with positive content. Since I don't see a lot of positive threads being made on this forum, I kind of doubt that.
Bottom line is that p2w cash-shop-focused MMORPGs are generally NOT GOOD. So much of the game is oriented towards the cash shop that there really is not that much else to talk about.
I should add 6.) complaining about the opinions of others... Then follow my own advice, I guess.
*It seems that writer baited the audience into action by posting P2W taboo *
Other posts seem on point and are really not as important or impactfull to cause that much ruckus and bad feedback from players.
**But P2W is a case of its own.Since it impacts the game in many more ways.**
________________________________________
Everyone has an oppinion, objective or subjective, but the reality is that MMORPG's are evolving ,not in the way we expect but in the way profit margins push them, since the genre isnt blooming now as it did years back, money took a major role ,and it is no longer developers and concept artists that shape the game, but the managers that promise it to be profitable in the first place.
Keep in mind that the growing number of mmorpg titles is not making the genre better, if only ,it is making population more spread and unpredictable unlike in Moba games.
We have mass evolutions Sub>B2p>F2p>P2w of many Titles which is directly related to its population and stability. Many advisors/ managers though, decided to jump straight to the P2w in many cases since that way you can catch greater audience and filter the profits much more easily.
______________________________________
Explanation to P2W
_____________________________________________
It is not a matter of does P2w exists, but as to how it is handled.Since there are 99 shades of gray in it with time as its greatest resource.
If the P2w component is too rewarding ,bigger part of the community will dig in and gamble their money by gaining advantage over others, opposed to if it is balanced and what you can earn ingame over reasonable amount of time for what you could pay money for as well viewed as convenience.
There is also diversification in whether you can only purchase certain items with cash, do those items actually make you much more powerfull than all the rest, AND does that impact PvP, PvE, or both.
______________________________________
We are not really talking about P2w here, it is the very existance and competition of Development and Publisher Studios which in various ways are fighting for territory-players, profits, stability or reputation which somehow in most cases arent the same thing.
Since you can be as notorious as Trion and still earn the same profits compared to its counterpart for example ArenaNet/GGG/Riot which are striving on maximising the population.
______________________________________
"William Murphy / Bill is the Managing Editor of MMORPG.com, and lover of all things gaming. He''s been playing and writing about MMOs and geekery since 2002."
It is a much bigger picture than as described by your relative to be a matter of perception.
And it is pretty obvious
"Be sure to follow him on Twitter for all of his pointless rambling."
that some people take these things less serious than others, which is as well a good way to break the ice.
I agree that people should probably complain less, but I think that instead of complaining, they should just move on. There seems to be some assumption being made that people should just play and shut up. Instead, people should just not play and shut up. In other words, stop giving game companies that offend their sensibilities money.
The "stop playing" thing comes organically. There's no need to advise people to stop playing something they don't like.
In general I think the whole idea of telling people to "shut up" is pretty silly. People say it clutters the forum so people enjoying/playing the game can't talk about it.
Everyone's free to post love threads as much as hate threads, it's just naturally rare. If you're playing a game you love, you're going to be spending your time playing it. If you have nothing to play and are bored, you're going to bitch about it on some forum.
I guess I can kind of see where Bill is coming from. MMORPG.com forums have gotten pretty damn negative. I couldn't say whether it's because of the state of MMORPGs in general or just because it's become a place where people go to bitch about them. Probably a little of both.
In any case, you guys are assuming that if the negative content is eliminated, it will be replaced with positive content. Since I don't see a lot of positive threads being made on this forum, I kind of doubt that.
Oh, I definitely do not assume replacement comments will be positive. Actually, I have faith that there is no end to negativity no matter how long humanity exists.
My point was... I get this sense that defenders of X game call out complainers and say things like, "what a tiny thing to worry about. There is so much fun, you are silly for having that complaint!"
Well, I think coming to a forum and complaining about some issue is ultimately pointless for these people since they will get lambasted by fanboys. Instead, just stop giving this company your money and move on. To me at least, the most empowering thing you can do for yourself is NOT complain.
Lockboxes, p2w, sandbox vs themepark and localisation - these are all design considerations from the developers and affect our enjoyment. We have a right to complain (though, devs are under no obligation to listen) about poor design decisions, its one of the few ways that we can make our opinions heard and that we can hope to influence future patches and new games. If we don't voice our displeasure, we risk the devs descending into shitty design practices quicker than they already are.
On noobs and carebears - mixed feelings. Is there still a distinction between noobs and newbies? There used to be, but I'm not too clear on terminology these days! Anyway, a newbie used to be someone that was new and thus crap. These people deserved our time to help them learn the game and find enjoyment. Noobs were different. Noobs were not new, but were still crap players. Noobs and carebears helped lead to the dumbing down of MMOs. So, I used to complain about them, but there's also nothing we can do about them. Dumb people be everywhere!
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
What complete garbage, flamebait artifcle tbh. When a character is dripping with gore and showing skeleton, if a company covers that up and replaces it with a bland version of the original, that is censorship.
Again, another corrupted journalist, time to say goodbye to this website, the mmo genre is dead
A bit over dramatic, don't you think? I may not agree on all points, but I love the spirited conversation that those with mature viewpoints can hold.
I wanted Bill to add "stop complaining about games you don't like. If you don't like them, move on and keep your trap shut". But...that could fuel enough volumes to put Encyclopedia Britannica to shame.
Stop complaining about game you do not like?, jesus. That is a terrible attitude and I can not believe you even came close to asking for that to be put into the article. I will also not be using this site again, the moderators seem to have an attitude problem with anybody that states a negative opinion on a game.
That comment by SBFORD although tic, is still another bit of flame bait
The article does revolve around P2W,
other points are prolly there just around to fill in the main purpose.
In a way he is right ,that players do say those things over and over again which is a way of griefing that in its own light creates negative aspects.
And it would be useless to defend rotten publishers in the first place ,since everyone has a choice to play and pay for it, or dont.
If there is a market for it ,they will sell it, same with weapons and drugs, and by buying it, we keep it alive.
It is entirely different issue that many players are lead to believe a game will exist in ways they want it, and not how companies do.
The very purpose of it ,is to bait players into enviroment they like, than use psychology or gambling and gamer addiction to work for their wallets.
So it is in fact information prior to game release that holds the most value in these cases, if players knew in advance publishers will lie to them in order to get as much as money as possible,
I agree that people should probably complain less, but I think that instead of complaining, they should just move on. There seems to be some assumption being made that people should just play and shut up. Instead, people should just not play and shut up. In other words, stop giving game companies that offend their sensibilities money.
The "stop playing" thing comes organically. There's no need to advise people to stop playing something they don't like.
In general I think the whole idea of telling people to "shut up" is pretty silly. People say it clutters the forum so people enjoying/playing the game can't talk about it.
Everyone's free to post love threads as much as hate threads, it's just naturally rare. If you're playing a game you love, you're going to be spending your time playing it. If you have nothing to play and are bored, you're going to bitch about it on some forum.
I guess I can kind of see where Bill is coming from. MMORPG.com forums have gotten pretty damn negative. I couldn't say whether it's because of the state of MMORPGs in general or just because it's become a place where people go to bitch about them. Probably a little of both.
In any case, you guys are assuming that if the negative content is eliminated, it will be replaced with positive content. Since I don't see a lot of positive threads being made on this forum, I kind of doubt that.
Oh, I definitely do not assume replacement comments will be positive. Actually, I have faith that there is no end to negativity no matter how long humanity exists.
My point was... I get this sense that defenders of X game call out complainers and say things like, "what a tiny thing to worry about. There is so much fun, you are silly for having that complaint!"
Well, I think coming to a forum and complaining about some issue is ultimately pointless for these people since they will get lambasted by fanboys. Instead, just stop giving this company your money and move on. To me at least, the most empowering thing you can do for yourself is NOT complain.
If that had been the case... GREEDMONGER would still be a "game" and people would still be "donating" to it. Complaining CAN and DOES have a positive impact.
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Oh, I definitely do not assume replacement comments will be positive. Actually, I have faith that there is no end to negativity no matter how long humanity exists.
My point was... I get this sense that defenders of X game call out complainers and say things like, "what a tiny thing to worry about. There is so much fun, you are silly for having that complaint!"
Well, I think coming to a forum and complaining about some issue is ultimately pointless for these people since they will get lambasted by fanboys. Instead, just stop giving this company your money and move on. To me at least, the most empowering thing you can do for yourself is NOT complain.
If that had been the case... GREEDMONGER would still be a "game" and people would still be "donating" to it. Complaining CAN and DOES have a positive impact.
See, I'm not sure that your complaining for those years did have an impact. I think that it would have gone under either way because they never delivered anything worthwhile. And I think that is the sad truth.
You want to believe with all your heart that it was YOU that helped take them down, when in reality, it was them.
Oh, I definitely do not assume replacement comments will be positive. Actually, I have faith that there is no end to negativity no matter how long humanity exists.
My point was... I get this sense that defenders of X game call out complainers and say things like, "what a tiny thing to worry about. There is so much fun, you are silly for having that complaint!"
Well, I think coming to a forum and complaining about some issue is ultimately pointless for these people since they will get lambasted by fanboys. Instead, just stop giving this company your money and move on. To me at least, the most empowering thing you can do for yourself is NOT complain.
If that had been the case... GREEDMONGER would still be a "game" and people would still be "donating" to it. Complaining CAN and DOES have a positive impact.
See, I'm not sure that your complaining for those years did have an impact. I think that it would have gone under either way because they never delivered anything worthwhile. And I think that is the sad truth.
You want to believe with all your heart that it was YOU that helped take them down, when in reality, it was them.
No. Actually I was on their big "announcement live stream" and personally talked them into shutting down the game the very next day. The video is linked elsewhere on the site.
And it wasn't years.
Some people just want to believe they are helpless. Reality is that consumers CAN make a difference but to make that impact you have to speak up.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Game companies who put out surveys and offer players to come back do so when they are doing poorly and those game companies that are doing well do it to see how they can improve their revenue further and it is often not in the direction you would want in any case.
WoW enjoys return players in large quantities because it prioritizes how to attract its returning player base. Their questions and surveys are done with this in mind. They pay lip service and might even throw out a meeting to parts of the player base they might want to placate but at the end of the day your opinions are worth very little to them even when they swear they do. Don't be foolish to think you have any sway and when you do have a sway it's often too late for the game.
No. Actually I was on their big "announcement live stream" and personally talked them into shutting down the game the very next day. The video is linked elsewhere on the site.
And it wasn't years.
Some people just want to believe they are helpless. Reality is that consumers CAN make a difference but to make that impact you have to speak up.
See what I mean? You have personally taken responsibility for taking a company down. You have admitted that it was you, Slapshot, that complained enough to bring them down. By the way, was it only one year? Was it two years that I had the privilege of reading you attack them (and have them respond like idiots)?
I believe this is the stem of almost all complaining. People believe that if they complain, they will be able to affect a company or their bottom line in a major way. It is rarely the case. I think that when this rare case happens, it's because the company lets down their user base and rarely has anything to do with complaining. Actually, complaining can actually sometimes add to a company's exposure.
I honestly wonder sometimes if a complainer like you actually added to their userbase because you gave it so much exposure.
Asking, making campaing for it, people to stop complaining (aka shut up) is the most tyranical thing anyone could do and its even worse on a journalist.
I just barely visit this website but you just made me want to erase its adress with this totalitarian rant.
Players only have 2 tools/ways to send their message. Buying or not and "complain". You just want to take a right out and 1/2 of their "voice"...
Point 1 is just pathetic. I understand publishers making changes to get by local laws/dogmas, I wouldnt criticise them for trying to sell and publish, but no matter what fallacies you use its still censorship in the end. Just call it what it is.
Asking, making campaing for it, people to stop complaining (aka shut up) is the most tyranical thing anyone could do and its even worse on a journalist.
I just barely visit this website but you just made me want to erase its adress with this totalitarian rant.
Players only have 2 tools/ways to send their message. Buying or not and "complain". You just want to take a right out and 1/2 of their "voice"...
Point 1 is just pathetic. I understand publishers making changes to get by local laws/dogmas, I wouldnt criticise them for trying to sell and publish, but no matter what fallacies you use its still censorship in the end. Just call it what it is.
I simply do not get why anyone thinks it's OK for companies to sell RNG boxes; here's a slight chance of getting what you paid for...It's so bad for the consumer yet here we are, consumers happy to part with cash at a chance of getting something they wanted? No other industry would get away with it.
No. Actually I was on their big "announcement live stream" and personally talked them into shutting down the game the very next day. The video is linked elsewhere on the site.
And it wasn't years.
Some people just want to believe they are helpless. Reality is that consumers CAN make a difference but to make that impact you have to speak up.
See what I mean? You have personally taken responsibility for taking a company down. You have admitted that it was you, Slapshot, that complained enough to bring them down. By the way, was it only one year? Was it two years that I had the privilege of reading you attack them (and have them respond like idiots)?
I believe this is the stem of almost all complaining. People believe that if they complain, they will be able to affect a company or their bottom line in a major way. It is rarely the case. I think that when this rare case happens, it's because the company lets down their user base and rarely has anything to do with complaining. Actually, complaining can actually sometimes add to a company's exposure.
I honestly wonder sometimes if a complainer like you actually added to their userbase because you gave it so much exposure.
I think you are uninformed. We literally had a live discussion for 2 hours. They went from announcing the next stage of development to shutting down. Please watch the video and then come back and comment.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
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So I say keep complaining, and keep forbearing. Eventually they will figure out that the p2w fantasy lobby game casino simulators they are pumping out just aren't worth making and they can get back to making real MMORPGs.
1. localization and censorship, i find to be an interesting point. It seems the west in general does have a lot of influence on what is tolerated unless it just happens to be something of a social/cultural difference with skeletons.
At some point, the idea of skeletons will be not taboo in china, and then we can have more of the same game in WoW terms.
But I am thinking about gambling. for some reason in general gambling is seen as something terrible in a game that can take up too much time for a kid affecting thier life decisions, teen rated, and have some violence, gore, sexual themes, and some in direct form of gambling. I am wondering, when will it become acceptable for the west to agree to have gambling in their mmos?
2. Themepark vs sand box.
Of course there are a lot of choices, but depending on those choices we are giving something up to get another. And thats part of the problem in the market when for example we have a beloved IP and they follow the WoW clone model and do not differentiate from that too much. Big money makes certani kind of games.
f2p games makes for a certain caliber/quality as well.
If we could get the same quality of big games with big money in other games, then the statement of variety would be more true.
For example, is there a starwars like themed game sci-fi fantasy with lots of
alience races,
that is a nice blend with themepark and open world sand box
Lot of character creation options
Good story.
Actual choices (make story shorter),
open world pvp and an entire system to support that including crafting economy,
good raiding (open world raids included),
bounty hunting (placing bounties on anyone),
npc alignment and npc politics,
player created content (players create their own pvp maps, houses/puzzles etc)
mini games - sports, racing, card games
gambling
good combat
in star wars - there is this huge underworld fanstasy as well, and there is gambling, and bounty hunting, but in the teen rated world its very subtle.
So its not like asking for these things are unreasonable especially since it would fit the IP, but becuase a game is teen rated, or big money makes somehting more that the market would appreicate.
So while swtor does exist, it has good story and good combat, some fun raids and pvp maps, it has not evolved from that. It makes more of the same, with barely any more races, limited choice, limited open world pvp, no card games, no real bounty hunting, a static world of standing npcs, no day/night cycle (wow has this), and their game engine must be affecting their development as well with the issue of VO work since their last expansion was only a few hours of story for all 4/4 classes sharing the same similar story.
So may be in some cases there are more valid arguments than others when comparing to what big money can accomplish as well. And limited to a certain IP as well.
And while we should be ahppy with what we get, you cant help but wish for something that easily exist in an existing mmo or wonder why somehting is not progressing as it should (EA limits development of swtor)
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
I used to play Guild Wars Factions, WoW, Tibia, Darkfall, EVE... Either B2P or P2P and no P2W elements what so ever. I play nothing these days. This is the main reason.
And complaining that "pay to progress" in games like BDO where gear is a major factor in pvp outcome wouldn't be "pay to win" since others might get to the same strength after months/years of grinding/gambling is a bit short sighted. Youi could easily call it "pay to win for months/years (until the rest caught up)". Of course the publisher will release more "content" on a regular basis so that the P2Wers will spends more money to keep staying on top for a another while. When timing the updates right, the publisher can milk the P2W crowd constantly this way and keep their payers at the top of the food chain virtually forever. So no, the limits of what p2w actually is are not as easy to set as some think they are - especially with the "grind forever" type that BDO is.
As for sandboxes the only half way decent (i like my sandboxes to ALSO have pvp that requires some aiming, excell in in space ain't my thing) that I saw in years was DFUW (NOT DF!) which was a bit low on content, had devs with a weird focus and has shut down since. I hoped for BDO to have some sandbox elements, but all I got was a few silly single player mini games - and the first MMO that had no player market. I quickly had to realize that that game was THE ultimated single player themepark mmo. So I guess I will keep complaining for a few more years until I finally get what I want
All your other points boil down to companies putting either the player experience and their customers first or their own profit first. Apparently you are inclined to support companies who put their profit on the table first.
There is something to be said for that. Some people, like Sovrath above me here, argue that it's just the way it is and that it's needed to keep the industry alive and thriving.
But I simply fundamentally disagree with that notion. In fact, I firmly believe that putting your companies profit before your game / players will hurt not only your players, but also your profit in the end.
It's a paradigm which has been changing for a long time in the rest of the world. Putting your company's goals and products first THEN thinking about profit will lead to more profit in the end.
I'm not saying that it's not possible to do that with loot boxes or various payment models. But very often the value for the player or the game economy is probably not on the mind of the people implementing them. While really it should be: a happy customer will keep playing and paying and perhaps more importantly: complain less.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
In general I think the whole idea of telling people to "shut up" is pretty silly. People say it clutters the forum so people enjoying/playing the game can't talk about it.
Everyone's free to post love threads as much as hate threads, it's just naturally rare. If you're playing a game you love, you're going to be spending your time playing it. If you have nothing to play and are bored, you're going to bitch about it on some forum.
I guess I can kind of see where Bill is coming from. MMORPG.com forums have gotten pretty damn negative. I couldn't say whether it's because of the state of MMORPGs in general or just because it's become a place where people go to bitch about them. Probably a little of both.
In any case, you guys are assuming that if the negative content is eliminated, it will be replaced with positive content. Since I don't see a lot of positive threads being made on this forum, I kind of doubt that.
Bottom line is that p2w cash-shop-focused MMORPGs are generally NOT GOOD. So much of the game is oriented towards the cash shop that there really is not that much else to talk about.
*It seems that writer baited the audience into action by posting P2W taboo
Other posts seem on point and are really not as important or impactfull to cause that much ruckus and bad feedback from players.
**But P2W is a case of its own.Since it impacts the game in many more ways.**
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Everyone has an oppinion, objective or subjective, but the reality is that MMORPG's are evolving ,not in the way we expect but in the way profit margins push them, since the genre isnt blooming now as it did years back, money took a major role ,and it is no longer developers and concept artists that shape the game, but the managers that promise it to be profitable in the first place.
Keep in mind that the growing number of mmorpg titles is not making the genre better, if only ,it is making population more spread and unpredictable unlike in Moba games.
We have mass evolutions Sub>B2p>F2p>P2w of many Titles which is directly related to its population and stability. Many advisors/ managers though, decided to jump straight to the P2w in many cases since that way you can catch greater audience and filter the profits much more easily.
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Explanation to P2W _____________________________________________ It is not a matter of does P2w exists, but as to how it is handled.Since there are 99 shades of gray in it with time as its greatest resource.
If the P2w component is too rewarding ,bigger part of the community will dig in and gamble their money by gaining advantage over others, opposed to if it is balanced and what you can earn ingame over reasonable amount of time for what you could pay money for as well viewed as convenience.
There is also diversification in whether you can only purchase certain items with cash, do those items actually make you much more powerfull than all the rest, AND does that impact PvP, PvE, or both.
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We are not really talking about P2w here, it is the very existance and competition of Development and Publisher Studios which in various ways are fighting for territory-players, profits, stability or reputation which somehow in most cases arent the same thing.
Since you can be as notorious as Trion and still earn the same profits compared to its counterpart for example ArenaNet/GGG/Riot which are striving on maximising the population.
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"William Murphy / Bill is the Managing Editor of MMORPG.com, and lover of all things gaming. He''s been playing and writing about MMOs and geekery since 2002."
It is a much bigger picture than as described by your relative to be a matter of perception.
And it is pretty obvious
"Be sure to follow him on Twitter for all of his pointless rambling."
that some people take these things less serious than others, which is as well a good way to break the ice.
Thank you for reading
My point was... I get this sense that defenders of X game call out complainers and say things like, "what a tiny thing to worry about. There is so much fun, you are silly for having that complaint!"
Well, I think coming to a forum and complaining about some issue is ultimately pointless for these people since they will get lambasted by fanboys. Instead, just stop giving this company your money and move on. To me at least, the most empowering thing you can do for yourself is NOT complain.
Lockboxes, p2w, sandbox vs themepark and localisation - these are all design considerations from the developers and affect our enjoyment. We have a right to complain (though, devs are under no obligation to listen) about poor design decisions, its one of the few ways that we can make our opinions heard and that we can hope to influence future patches and new games. If we don't voice our displeasure, we risk the devs descending into shitty design practices quicker than they already are.
On noobs and carebears - mixed feelings. Is there still a distinction between noobs and newbies? There used to be, but I'm not too clear on terminology these days! Anyway, a newbie used to be someone that was new and thus crap. These people deserved our time to help them learn the game and find enjoyment. Noobs were different. Noobs were not new, but were still crap players. Noobs and carebears helped lead to the dumbing down of MMOs. So, I used to complain about them, but there's also nothing we can do about them. Dumb people be everywhere!
The article does revolve around P2W,
other points are prolly there just around to fill in the main purpose.
In a way he is right ,that players do say those things over and over again which is a way of griefing that in its own light creates negative aspects.
And it would be useless to defend rotten publishers in the first place ,since everyone has a choice to play and pay for it, or dont.
If there is a market for it ,they will sell it, same with weapons and drugs, and by buying it, we keep it alive.
It is entirely different issue that many players are lead to believe a game will exist in ways they want it, and not how companies do.
The very purpose of it ,is to bait players into enviroment they like, than use psychology or gambling and gamer addiction to work for their wallets.
So it is in fact information prior to game release that holds the most value in these cases, if players knew in advance publishers will lie to them in order to get as much as money as possible,
Release of those games would be a disaster.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You want to believe with all your heart that it was YOU that helped take them down, when in reality, it was them.
And it wasn't years.
Some people just want to believe they are helpless. Reality is that consumers CAN make a difference but to make that impact you have to speak up.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
WoW enjoys return players in large quantities because it prioritizes how to attract its returning player base. Their questions and surveys are done with this in mind. They pay lip service and might even throw out a meeting to parts of the player base they might want to placate but at the end of the day your opinions are worth very little to them even when they swear they do. Don't be foolish to think you have any sway and when you do have a sway it's often too late for the game.
I believe this is the stem of almost all complaining. People believe that if they complain, they will be able to affect a company or their bottom line in a major way. It is rarely the case. I think that when this rare case happens, it's because the company lets down their user base and rarely has anything to do with complaining. Actually, complaining can actually sometimes add to a company's exposure.
I honestly wonder sometimes if a complainer like you actually added to their userbase because you gave it so much exposure.
I just barely visit this website but you just made me want to erase its adress with this totalitarian rant.
Players only have 2 tools/ways to send their message. Buying or not and "complain". You just want to take a right out and 1/2 of their "voice"...
Point 1 is just pathetic. I understand publishers making changes to get by local laws/dogmas, I wouldnt criticise them for trying to sell and publish, but no matter what fallacies you use its still censorship in the end. Just call it what it is.
I just barely visit this website but you just made me want to erase its adress with this totalitarian rant.
Players only have 2 tools/ways to send their message. Buying or not and "complain". You just want to take a right out and 1/2 of their "voice"...
Point 1 is just pathetic. I understand publishers making changes to get by local laws/dogmas, I wouldnt criticise them for trying to sell and publish, but no matter what fallacies you use its still censorship in the end. Just call it what it is.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018