Yet charging tax on what you say is actually pledges and then say they aren't obligated to release anything. That is what a lot of people would call a scam. But really they have promised to release a game which is why we pay tax. One thing for sure on the way Robert's set this up will end up in court one day. Charging taxes will end up making that happen, unless he starts actually moving forward and make the games.
Lol
A company doesn't charge tax, the government does. Companies collect it at no charge for the government. Being a Government tax collector costs my company plenty and its not something that's voluntary.
Not sure if you misunderstood what I was saying. Because it clearly isn't a pledge by charging tax it would be closer to a pre-order. Which because of that could end up Roberts in court. I understand how collecting taxes can be a pain the the ass.
Pledge means Promise.
This isn't about pledging for someone's cancer treatment. Now you can pledge a *donation* and you won't be taxed a cent. Big difference between *donation* and *pledge* they are not the same. You might even see your pledge to SC as a donation, but that doesn't mean the Government does. Your "pledging" money and Roberts is pledging a consumer product. All the Government cares about is *consumer product* consumer products are taxed and they really don't care if it's ready or not.
The Government cares whether laws are being broken. Changes to laws and new laws can happen at a snail's pace but when we're talking loss of revenue and possible revenue, Governments are on it like flies on shit.
Whether Roberts is guilty of any kind of fraud or other offences is a completely different matter.
What happened to your reasoning of If an investigation finds that there's been an orchestrated attempt to discredit a company, they may dismiss the entire case as "tainted", because it becomes too difficult to determine whether there was genuine injury or just malicious intent.
Its okay, people say things they know nothing about but claim they do, just like you.
Since you just said you aren't a lawyer and you just proved that you don't really know how a government agency in the US operate, your 'I don't believe you have any right to a refund' is also suspect (and wrong).
The irony is that since both sides are a. not lawyers b. disagree on consumer rights, the proper way would be to ask government agencies (DCBA, Attorney General) for assistance by filing with them. Just like the $3000 refund guy.
And yet I provided you links to sites with the laws for each individual state, many of which state that companies make their own refund policies, and you linked nothing. Instead you throw up a strawman argument and ignore the actual claims.... the ones that you made! Please link something relevant or don't bother responding. Oh! And I highly doubt you're a lawyer either, so let's not throw stones in glass houses, k?
This post is pretty sad as you can see it desperately trying to deal with the fact it got caught in a lie.
Just admit you don't know how a Government Agency operate in the US and you were wrong when you said 'If an investigation finds that there's been an orchestrated attempt to discredit a company, they may dismiss the entire case as "tainted", because it becomes too difficult to determine whether there was genuine injury or just malicious intent.'
I assume English isn't your first language as I don't recall saying I was a lawyer. I distinctly remember saying 'Both sides are NOT Lawyers'.
If a customer wants a refund from a company and the company refuses, and the customer isn't sure of its rights, the customer should ask a consumer protection agency like the one DCBA has or the one the Attorney General has. This seems like fairly simple logic to me, so not sure why you are upset at people going and getting government assistance which is setup to provide such things.
Despite Erillion claiming the DCBA and the Attorney Generals are 'Incompetent', I doubt the two government agencies would advise an ordinary citizen to do anything illegal.
Despite Erillion claiming the DCBA and the Attorney Generals are 'Incompetent',
That is what YOU claim.
Have fun
Please point to a post where I made that claim. Based on what I know, I can see why your post where you made that claim was deleted though.
I'll ask again then since that question post is still up. Can you clarify then (since you aren't accusing the DCBA / Attorney General for lying) whether you are accusing them as being incompetent by letting false news stories to be printed against them?
And I recommend that you do not accuse half of the US's populace as 'incompetent' as your answer.
they also been claiming to finish theyr game in 2years after kickstarte campaign, yet 4 years later we have nothing.
You will be answered how other companies take 5 to 7 years. Yet by 4 years in they already have a lot more to show than what they are with SC and SQ42. If they were developing with the likes of EA, Origin or any other the game would be shut down by now. You at least need to show you have an actual game that is coming together. That is what worries me most and think we will never see what we helped pay for. Plus how rich they may have become.
The fun thing is - With other games they include the concept stage in their calculations (which takes SC now to 5 1/2 years. - They never mentioned how long these 7 to 8 years developed games were in alpha/pre-alpha stage (you would be surprised) - All these games (except hobby projects) were private / publisher founded > not crowdfunded and if it's intern money they may do what they want. - Teamsizes > Rockstar had a quadruple peeps working on game XYZ > yeah this maybe true but all these guys also worked on other projects.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Star Citizen isn't in Alpha. That's what people don't get, I think. A lot of the criticism stems not from the fact there is no finished game, but that it's not even in Alpha yet.
Alpha is when all of the systems are put in the game. Beta is when all those systems are tuned and polished. Pre-alpha is more nebulous in its definition, but if Alpha is like putting muscles and sinew on a skeleton, and Beta is covering all of that with skin, pre-Alpha is making of the said skeleton. Patcher, basic netcode, placeholders for all of the systems etc. are supposed to be done in pre-Alpha.
Star Citizen is at pre-Alpha or tech/engine stage. It's in extremely early stages.
"Star Citizen (both live and PTU) is an alpha game. As such, this is not a complete list of every bug in the game. Nor does the absence of a bug from this list mean it’s not on our radar for a fix in the future. If you want to contribute to the process of finding, diagnosing and fixing bugs, we strongly encourage players to take advantage of our newIssue Council to report them to us. As always, please don’t contact Customer Support to report game bugs, thanks!"
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Sure will, sure will. Wouldn't doubt much some are already gathering rocks.
But well I will pretend ME Andromeda is a space sim and not a shooter; if you want to make statements like that compare it to Call of Duty where at least to some extent you can have ship flight and ship combat.
Star Citizen isn't in Alpha. That's what people don't get, I think. A lot of the criticism stems not from the fact there is no finished game, but that it's not even in Alpha yet.
Alpha is when all of the systems are put in the game. Beta is when all those systems are tuned and polished. Pre-alpha is more nebulous in its definition, but if Alpha is like putting muscles and sinew on a skeleton, and Beta is covering all of that with skin, pre-Alpha is making of the said skeleton. Patcher, basic netcode, placeholders for all of the systems etc. are supposed to be done in pre-Alpha.
Star Citizen is at pre-Alpha or tech/engine stage. It's in extremely early stages.
When the software is in alpha stage testing, that means the developer has released a build that is ready for the qa team to start testing.
All that means is that the environment and at least a feature is prep and ready for testing.
How one company define, manage and conduct alpha testing can be varied even between projects and modules.
A beta testing is a phase where most of the features of the program (core) is completed and the company is ready to give a peek to the general public. Again what features listed during beta is under the discretion of the company, there is no rule that must be followed. The idea of a beta phase testing is to get user feedback. Depending on the feedback and the company's discretion, one or more features of the game maybe scrapped, adjusted, altered or added.
The more things change the more the stay the same. This whole thread is a perfect example of whats wrong with this whole project. People present viewpoints that are easily seen with your own eyes, cant be debated or denunked, and the supporters derail the thread and start talking about stuff that spirals it out of contril.
fact is they had less than 30K people watching a game thats ONLY claim to fame is the amount of money (they claimed) to have raised and the (alleged) number of 'citizens' they have.
I said it last month at games con that the viwership for those streams were laughably small, and the supporters were sayinf 'wait til citzencon'. Well we waited and we sw the same thing. More scripted (and faked) 'live' gameplay, along with stuff they made sure to say wasnt actual game play and just artistically rendered crap (which is pretty much 90% of everything they have released). Thats why their biggest expenditure with 'donated' funds was making a movie studio so they could produce all this and claim it was game footage.
This game is so irleveant now its basically not even worth talking about. I havent bothered to comment on it at all for a few weeks, and even now there isnt much more that can be said except it is still the same sad 'ambitious' pile it has been for years.
Next benchmark for comment will be whenever they claimed they would have what they showed last month live, or is it now back to SQ 42 being the focus? Like I said I havent been keeping up. Regardles NIETHER of these will be gong anywhere before the end of this year. No matter which one it is they claim to be the one theyre focusing on.
Its the same 'look at this cool video of stuff we are going to be doing' (which they arent); hoping peopel will forget the video from weeks and months ago that they said the exact same thing about yet still doesnt exist anywhere but in someones head and some production software.
I think by the time Star Citizen releases humanity would probably have already put a man on Mars... and some of the backers might have already have their one-way ticket to Mars :P
Star Citizen isn't in Alpha. That's what people don't get, I think. A lot of the criticism stems not from the fact there is no finished game, but that it's not even in Alpha yet.
Alpha is when all of the systems are put in the game. Beta is when all those systems are tuned and polished. Pre-alpha is more nebulous in its definition, but if Alpha is like putting muscles and sinew on a skeleton, and Beta is covering all of that with skin, pre-Alpha is making of the said skeleton. Patcher, basic netcode, placeholders for all of the systems etc. are supposed to be done in pre-Alpha.
Star Citizen is at pre-Alpha or tech/engine stage. It's in extremely early stages.
When the software is in alpha stage testing, that means the developer has released a build that is ready for the qa team to start testing.
All that means is that the environment and at least a feature is prep and ready for testing.
How one company define, manage and conduct alpha testing can be varied even between projects and modules.
A beta testing is a phase where most of the features of the program (core) is completed and the company is ready to give a peek to the general public. Again what features listed during beta is under the discretion of the company, there is no rule that must be followed. The idea of a beta phase testing is to get user feedback. Depending on the feedback and the company's discretion, one or more features of the game maybe scrapped, adjusted, altered or added.
Your first two paragraphs are sort if OK, then you go off the rails at the end of the third paragraph, with '... and modules'
A better definition of alpha testing is:
Alpha testing is testing of an application when development is about to complete. Minor design changes can still be made as a result of alpha testing.
Alpha testing is typically performed by a group that is independent of the design team, but still within the company, e.g. in-house software test engineers, or software QA engineers.
It is testing of the whole application, not modules. Testing of modules is unit testing. With this definition it is clear that Star Citizen is a long ways from alpha testing. No matter what CR and the fan boys say.
And I recommend that you do not accuse half of the US's populace as 'incompetent' as your answer.
I consider that part that makes an obviously stupid choice incompetent. That is hopefully less than 50 %.
And my answer w.r.t. DCBA / Attorney General ... i am quite sure they could not care less.
Have fun
So you lied when you said 'That is what YOU claim.' ?
The thread is about the disappointing show of 'CitizenCon 2016' by the OP and others and the ultimate exit that exists; REFUNDS. We've already established that refunds can be obtained easily and asking for '3rd party assistance' through consumer protection agencies should refunds are denied, seems logical.
What is more interesting is the number of refunds that is currently being granted. I was told that the $750 Polaris 'new money only, no in-store credit' was because the amount of refunds CIG had to grant once the '$3000 refund' story came out.
And I recommend that you do not accuse half of the US's populace as 'incompetent' as your answer.
I consider that part that makes an obviously stupid choice incompetent. That is hopefully less than 50 %.
And my answer w.r.t. DCBA / Attorney General ... i am quite sure they could not care less.
Have fun
So you lied when you said 'That is what YOU claim.' ?
The thread is about the disappointing show of 'CitizenCon 2016' by the OP and others and the ultimate exit that exists; REFUNDS. We've already established that refunds can be obtained easily and asking for '3rd party assistance' through consumer protection agencies should refunds are denied, seems logical.
What is more interesting is the number of refunds that is currently being granted. I was told that the $750 Polaris 'new money only, no in-store credit' was because the amount of refunds CIG had to grant once the '$3000 refund' story came out.
Again, YOU claim a lot which other people did not say. You hear what you want to hear.
Back to the topic of this thread - CitizenCon. Sometimes things do not work out and need more time. We all wish it would go faster. Not all wishes are granted. So .... back to the desks and solving problems one milestone at a time. For us fans that means sending in bug reports. For the team it means focussed and hard work .... Until it works.
Meanwhile those that do not support the project anymore will get their refunds - as they did those last three years.
And I recommend that you do not accuse half of the US's populace as 'incompetent' as your answer.
I consider that part that makes an obviously stupid choice incompetent. That is hopefully less than 50 %.
And my answer w.r.t. DCBA / Attorney General ... i am quite sure they could not care less.
Have fun
So you lied when you said 'That is what YOU claim.' ?
The thread is about the disappointing show of 'CitizenCon 2016' by the OP and others and the ultimate exit that exists; REFUNDS. We've already established that refunds can be obtained easily and asking for '3rd party assistance' through consumer protection agencies should refunds are denied, seems logical.
What is more interesting is the number of refunds that is currently being granted. I was told that the $750 Polaris 'new money only, no in-store credit' was because the amount of refunds CIG had to grant once the '$3000 refund' story came out.
Meanwhile those that do not support the project anymore will get their refunds - as they did those last three years.
Patience is a virtue.
Have fun
Patience is a virtue especially with the refund process. Reading a lot of the refund stories I wonder why you never mention the hoops people need to jump through to get their money back. From telling people their money is spent to trying to guilt people into not pulling their money out.
@Erillion Got to ask, because it keeps on occurring to me when I read your posts.
Are you a paid employee or contractor of Roberts Space Industries, or it's related entities?
I am a backer of Star Citizen. I like that project and space sims in general.
Whenever possible i post verifyable information (dare i say the word ? ...facts...). Or my personal opinion .. marked as such.
I
have one ship - a Constellation. Never had more than that one ship. I
do not (and never did) trade SC ships for money or other ships.
I
am a SC subscriber and have therefore access to the "Den" forum and "Jump
Point" magazine. Being a backer I have access to the official forums.
I
am not working in the gaming industry. Neither am I working in the advertising industry. I am not employed by CIG or any
of its contractors. And never was. I am not a computer gaming
journalist, vblogger or streamer. I am not being paid for anything i
write here at mmorpg.com ... not with money, nor with goods (like in
game ships). By anybody.
I have used and posted on mmorpg.com
for over a decade, about various games, long before Star Citizen was
even mentioned anywhere for the first time. This is not an account
created to post advertising on these forums. It IS an account used to
share my enthusiasm about certain games with others.
Again, YOU claim a lot which other people did not say. You hear what you want to hear.
Back to the topic of this thread - CitizenCon. Sometimes things do not work out and need more time. We all wish it would go faster. Not all wishes are granted. So .... back to the desks and solving problems one milestone at a time. For us fans that means sending in bug reports. For the team it means focussed and hard work .... Until it works.
Meanwhile those that do not support the project anymore will get their refunds - as they did those last three years.
Patience is a virtue.
Have fun
Your statement towards me is that 'That is what YOU claim.'. Unless you can point to a post in which I made that claim, you are lying. Like I said before, knowing what I know, I understand why you'd really wish you didn't write that post. But you did.
@Kefo Refund stories that I've been involved with have 'happy' endings as the '$3000 refund' is now the blueprint for people to follow. Up until that '$3000 refund' story hit mainstream media, the refund route was mostly in the Charge Backs space which can take a while to process and depending on the financial institution, lots of paperwork.
@Erillion Got to ask, because it keeps on occurring to me when I read your posts.
Are you a paid employee or contractor of Roberts Space Industries, or it's related entities?
If he is, don't you think he's contractually obligated to say he isn't?
If CIG is paying him, he is doing a terrible job at it.
Just in this thread alone, look at his posts. a. 'Half of the USA population is incompetent' b. Accusing someone for saying something bad and then not backing it up with evidence. c. 'And no, CIG is no drug cartel or international arms dealer ring .... government organizations WOULD freely tell about ongoing investigations.'
According to Erillion, Government Agencies will tell people when they are investigating someone. Like the IRS! The police! The DOJ! Which obviously isn't how it actually works.
Comments
This isn't about pledging for someone's cancer treatment. Now you can pledge a *donation* and you won't be taxed a cent. Big difference between *donation* and *pledge* they are not the same. You might even see your pledge to SC as a donation, but that doesn't mean the Government does. Your "pledging" money and Roberts is pledging a consumer product. All the Government cares about is *consumer product* consumer products are taxed and they really don't care if it's ready or not.
The Government cares whether laws are being broken. Changes to laws and new laws can happen at a snail's pace but when we're talking loss of revenue and possible revenue, Governments are on it like flies on shit.
Whether Roberts is guilty of any kind of fraud or other offences is a completely different matter.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Just admit you don't know how a Government Agency operate in the US and you were wrong when you said 'If an investigation finds that there's been an orchestrated attempt to discredit a company, they may dismiss the entire case as "tainted", because it becomes too difficult to determine whether there was genuine injury or just malicious intent.'
I assume English isn't your first language as I don't recall saying I was a lawyer. I distinctly remember saying 'Both sides are NOT Lawyers'.
If a customer wants a refund from a company and the company refuses, and the customer isn't sure of its rights, the customer should ask a consumer protection agency like the one DCBA has or the one the Attorney General has. This seems like fairly simple logic to me, so not sure why you are upset at people going and getting government assistance which is setup to provide such things.
Despite Erillion claiming the DCBA and the Attorney Generals are 'Incompetent', I doubt the two government agencies would advise an ordinary citizen to do anything illegal.
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
Have fun
Based on what I know, I can see why your post where you made that claim was deleted though.
I'll ask again then since that question post is still up.
Can you clarify then (since you aren't accusing the DCBA / Attorney General for lying) whether you are accusing them as being incompetent by letting false news stories to be printed against them?
And I recommend that you do not accuse half of the US's populace as 'incompetent' as your answer.
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
- With other games they include the concept stage in their calculations (which takes SC now to 5 1/2 years.
- They never mentioned how long these 7 to 8 years developed games were in alpha/pre-alpha stage (you would be surprised)
- All these games (except hobby projects) were private / publisher founded > not crowdfunded and if it's intern money they may do what they want.
- Teamsizes > Rockstar had a quadruple peeps working on game XYZ > yeah this maybe true but all these guys also worked on other projects.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
And my answer w.r.t. DCBA / Attorney General ... i am quite sure they could not care less.
Have fun
Alpha is when all of the systems are put in the game. Beta is when all those systems are tuned and polished. Pre-alpha is more nebulous in its definition, but if Alpha is like putting muscles and sinew on a skeleton, and Beta is covering all of that with skin, pre-Alpha is making of the said skeleton. Patcher, basic netcode, placeholders for all of the systems etc. are supposed to be done in pre-Alpha.
Star Citizen is at pre-Alpha or tech/engine stage. It's in extremely early stages.
"Star Citizen (both live and PTU) is an alpha game. As such, this is not a complete list of every bug in the game. Nor does the absence of a bug from this list mean it’s not on our radar for a fix in the future. If you want to contribute to the process of finding, diagnosing and fixing bugs, we strongly encourage players to take advantage of our newIssue Council to report them to us. As always, please don’t contact Customer Support to report game bugs, thanks!"
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/faq/liveknownissues
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
But well I will pretend ME Andromeda is a space sim and not a shooter; if you want to make statements like that compare it to Call of Duty where at least to some extent you can have ship flight and ship combat.
All that means is that the environment and at least a feature is prep and ready for testing.
How one company define, manage and conduct alpha testing can be varied even between projects and modules.
A beta testing is a phase where most of the features of the program (core) is completed and the company is ready to give a peek to the general public. Again what features listed during beta is under the discretion of the company, there is no rule that must be followed. The idea of a beta phase testing is to get user feedback. Depending on the feedback and the company's discretion, one or more features of the game maybe scrapped, adjusted, altered or added.
fact is they had less than 30K people watching a game thats ONLY claim to fame is the amount of money (they claimed) to have raised and the (alleged) number of 'citizens' they have.
I said it last month at games con that the viwership for those streams were laughably small, and the supporters were sayinf 'wait til citzencon'. Well we waited and we sw the same thing. More scripted (and faked) 'live' gameplay, along with stuff they made sure to say wasnt actual game play and just artistically rendered crap (which is pretty much 90% of everything they have released). Thats why their biggest expenditure with 'donated' funds was making a movie studio so they could produce all this and claim it was game footage.
This game is so irleveant now its basically not even worth talking about. I havent bothered to comment on it at all for a few weeks, and even now there isnt much more that can be said except it is still the same sad 'ambitious' pile it has been for years.
Next benchmark for comment will be whenever they claimed they would have what they showed last month live, or is it now back to SQ 42 being the focus? Like I said I havent been keeping up. Regardles NIETHER of these will be gong anywhere before the end of this year. No matter which one it is they claim to be the one theyre focusing on.
Its the same 'look at this cool video of stuff we are going to be doing' (which they arent); hoping peopel will forget the video from weeks and months ago that they said the exact same thing about yet still doesnt exist anywhere but in someones head and some production software.
A better definition of alpha testing is:
- Alpha testing is testing of an application when development is about to complete. Minor design changes can still be made as a result of alpha testing.
- Alpha testing is typically performed by a group that is independent of the design team, but still within the company, e.g. in-house software test engineers, or software QA engineers.
It is testing of the whole application, not modules. Testing of modules is unit testing. With this definition it is clear that Star Citizen is a long ways from alpha testing. No matter what CR and the fan boys say.The thread is about the disappointing show of 'CitizenCon 2016' by the OP and others and the ultimate exit that exists; REFUNDS.
We've already established that refunds can be obtained easily and asking for '3rd party assistance' through consumer protection agencies should refunds are denied, seems logical.
What is more interesting is the number of refunds that is currently being granted.
I was told that the $750 Polaris 'new money only, no in-store credit' was because the amount of refunds CIG had to grant once the '$3000 refund' story came out.
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
Back to the topic of this thread - CitizenCon. Sometimes things do not work out and need more time. We all wish it would go faster. Not all wishes are granted. So .... back to the desks and solving problems one milestone at a time. For us fans that means sending in bug reports. For the team it means focussed and hard work .... Until it works.
Meanwhile those that do not support the project anymore will get their refunds - as they did those last three years.
Patience is a virtue.
Have fun
Are you a paid employee or contractor of Roberts Space Industries, or it's related entities?
I am a backer of Star Citizen. I like that project and space sims in general.
Whenever possible i post verifyable information (dare i say the word ? ...facts...). Or my personal opinion .. marked as such.
I have one ship - a Constellation. Never had more than that one ship. I do not (and never did) trade SC ships for money or other ships.
I am a SC subscriber and have therefore access to the "Den" forum and "Jump Point" magazine. Being a backer I have access to the official forums.
I am not working in the gaming industry. Neither am I working in the advertising industry. I am not employed by CIG or any of its contractors. And never was. I am not a computer gaming journalist, vblogger or streamer. I am not being paid for anything i write here at mmorpg.com ... not with money, nor with goods (like in game ships). By anybody.
I have used and posted on mmorpg.com for over a decade, about various games, long before Star Citizen was even mentioned anywhere for the first time. This is not an account created to post advertising on these forums. It IS an account used to share my enthusiasm about certain games with others.
Does that sufficiently answer your question?
Have fun
Like I said before, knowing what I know, I understand why you'd really wish you didn't write that post.
But you did.
@Kefo
Refund stories that I've been involved with have 'happy' endings as the '$3000 refund' is now the blueprint for people to follow. Up until that '$3000 refund' story hit mainstream media, the refund route was mostly in the Charge Backs space which can take a while to process and depending on the financial institution, lots of paperwork.
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
Just in this thread alone, look at his posts.
a. 'Half of the USA population is incompetent'
b. Accusing someone for saying something bad and then not backing it up with evidence.
c. 'And no, CIG is no drug cartel or international arms dealer ring .... government organizations WOULD freely tell about ongoing investigations.'
According to Erillion, Government Agencies will tell people when they are investigating someone. Like the IRS! The police! The DOJ!
Which obviously isn't how it actually works.
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ