For popular games, maybe consider 3 forums. Lightside, Darkside, General?
Alternately 2 sections: Normal and Unmoderated.
The current setup is kind of a no-mans land where moderation is at times haphazard and uneven and really only serves to diminish the enjoyment of both supporters and detractors.
Also keep in mind that it is conflicting opinions that drive traffic to the forums. The forums are what differentiates this site from places like Massively(also a great site but generally just news and opinions with limited reader interaction). You should be focused on ways to spark debate and conversation.
You can have different opinions and debate without people acting like trash.
The problem is that you don't have to act like trash to get warned or banned here. The forum rule that negative comments can be considered "trolling" basicly gives moderators a wildcard to warn you whenever you speak out against their respectively favorite game, company or if you antagonize one of their favorite posters.
The moderation bias is real and many have experienced it. It was even worse back then with a certain moderator that fortunately is no longer active here, but it has been more or less an ongoing problem i witnessed and experienced first hand since i joined here. At times it was so obvious that members suspected two certain users to be moderators abusing their powers. This is an absolute MUST NOT for every community.
Oh yes, we still have community@mmorpg.com. I have been warned for borderline nothing twice and wrote Mike a mail about that..didn't get an answer at all.
For popular games, maybe consider 3 forums. Lightside, Darkside, General?
Alternately 2 sections: Normal and Unmoderated.
The current setup is kind of a no-mans land where moderation is at times haphazard and uneven and really only serves to diminish the enjoyment of both supporters and detractors.
Also keep in mind that it is conflicting opinions that drive traffic to the forums. The forums are what differentiates this site from places like Massively(also a great site but generally just news and opinions with limited reader interaction). You should be focused on ways to spark debate and conversation.
You can have different opinions and debate without people acting like trash.
Sure you can. I still stand by the concept that overly sensitive folks have tried to turn this into an mmo "safe space" and the result is a dramatic drop in forum participation. Official forums are a GREAT place for talking about how great a game a without being challenged. That niche is already well covered. The niche for MMORPG.COM is the one where folks can have sometimes contentious debates without the fear of someone calling for the hall monitor.
Unfortunately, as soon as someone starts to post anything even remotely combative (pro or con) they get reported and penalized. Folks need to understand that those conflicting opinions are the actual CONTENT of this site. We are now reaping what has been sowed. Visits and participation are way, way down. It's obvious to anyone who has been here for years.
I don't think you are understanding "trash".
You can have different opinions and debate without being an asshole.
Doesn't mean you have to be warm and fluffy. There are plenty of people on this site who are not "warm and fluffy"; that's just who they are.
And you are incorrect; just because someone reports someone doesn't mean they are going to get penalized/banned.
You only get penalized/banned if you are essentially breaking the rules or "being an asshole".
Conflicting opinions are fine. Pointing out where people are incorrect is fine. Being assertive is fine. Agreeing to disagree always works too.
But being "a d1ck" just doesn't cut it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
They can't blame it all on the state of MMOs. I've been lurking here for a long time... and there is a major decline in quality on this site. Sometimes days will go by with no update at all yet other sites have updates daily on mmos. Mmorpg.com simply is dropping the ball and kicking their feet up on the desk to relax.
You're kidding, right? We have news daily, even weekends, and more articles than any other sites in our genre.
Aye. I guess you're right on that. I just wasn't counting your sponsored reviews as actual updates on games.
From 2003-2016 I've been part of this site and I've seen where it used to be and where it is now. There was a time when there was thousand+ of concurrent, active community on these forums and now there is barely a hundred. As a MMORPG fan I am disappointed when any community/site is going downhill but usually these things are caused by bad decisions within those in charge of either their games or in this case their site/forums.
It isn't the fault of mmorpg.com that people don't want to come here. There are few -- if any -- decent mmos being developed today. It's so bad that mmorpg.com posts news about offline games and games that aren't even worth the time to report about.
I give credit to this website for actually reporting real news for once -- at one point they would only post about games/companies that were paying them ad revenue (the advertisements you see above and on the outskirts of the page).
But the lack of people looking for mmo news is due to the correlated lack of good games.
From 2003-2016 I've been part of this site and I've seen where it used to be and where it is now. There was a time when there was thousand+ of concurrent, active community on these forums and now there is barely a hundred. As a MMORPG fan I am disappointed when any community/site is going downhill but usually these things are caused by bad decisions within those in charge of either their games or in this case their site/forums.
It isn't the fault of mmorpg.com that people don't want to come here. There are few -- if any -- decent mmos being developed today. It's so bad that mmorpg.com posts news about offline games and games that aren't even worth the time to report about.
I give credit to this website for actually reporting real news for once -- at one point they would only post about games/companies that were paying them ad revenue (the advertisements you see above and on the outskirts of the page).
But the lack of people looking for mmo news is due to the correlated lack of good games.
From 2003-2016 I've been part of this site and I've seen where it used to be and where it is now. There was a time when there was thousand+ of concurrent, active community on these forums and now there is barely a hundred. As a MMORPG fan I am disappointed when any community/site is going downhill but usually these things are caused by bad decisions within those in charge of either their games or in this case their site/forums.
It isn't the fault of mmorpg.com that people don't want to come here. There are few -- if any -- decent mmos being developed today. It's so bad that mmorpg.com posts news about offline games and games that aren't even worth the time to report about.
I give credit to this website for actually reporting real news for once -- at one point they would only post about games/companies that were paying them ad revenue (the advertisements you see above and on the outskirts of the page).
But the lack of people looking for mmo news is due to the correlated lack of good games.
For popular games, maybe consider 3 forums. Lightside, Darkside, General?
Alternately 2 sections: Normal and Unmoderated.
The current setup is kind of a no-mans land where moderation is at times haphazard and uneven and really only serves to diminish the enjoyment of both supporters and detractors.
Also keep in mind that it is conflicting opinions that drive traffic to the forums. The forums are what differentiates this site from places like Massively(also a great site but generally just news and opinions with limited reader interaction). You should be focused on ways to spark debate and conversation.
You can have different opinions and debate without people acting like trash.
Sure you can. I still stand by the concept that overly sensitive folks have tried to turn this into an mmo "safe space" and the result is a dramatic drop in forum participation. Official forums are a GREAT place for talking about how great a game a without being challenged. That niche is already well covered. The niche for MMORPG.COM is the one where folks can have sometimes contentious debates without the fear of someone calling for the hall monitor.
Unfortunately, as soon as someone starts to post anything even remotely combative (pro or con) they get reported and penalized. Folks need to understand that those conflicting opinions are the actual CONTENT of this site. We are now reaping what has been sowed. Visits and participation are way, way down. It's obvious to anyone who has been here for years.
I don't think you are understanding "trash".
You can have different opinions and debate without being an asshole.
Doesn't mean you have to be warm and fluffy. There are plenty of people on this site who are not "warm and fluffy"; that's just who they are.
And you are incorrect; just because someone reports someone doesn't mean they are going to get penalized/banned.
You only get penalized/banned if you are essentially breaking the rules or "being an asshole".
Conflicting opinions are fine. Pointing out where people are incorrect is fine. Being assertive is fine. Agreeing to disagree always works too.
But being "a d1ck" just doesn't cut it.
Yep, I'm rarely warm and fluffy, yet I rarely get warnings or infractions. It's simply a matter of stating your peace, without injecting a personal attack in with it. It's also a good rule of thumb to stay away from repeatedly injecting a negative presence into any game's regular discussion. The people that regularly do those things, are the ones you grow accustomed to seeing bars over their name, or that banned pic...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For popular games, maybe consider 3 forums. Lightside, Darkside, General?
Alternately 2 sections: Normal and Unmoderated.
The current setup is kind of a no-mans land where moderation is at times haphazard and uneven and really only serves to diminish the enjoyment of both supporters and detractors.
Also keep in mind that it is conflicting opinions that drive traffic to the forums. The forums are what differentiates this site from places like Massively(also a great site but generally just news and opinions with limited reader interaction). You should be focused on ways to spark debate and conversation.
You can have different opinions and debate without people acting like trash.
Sure you can. I still stand by the concept that overly sensitive folks have tried to turn this into an mmo "safe space" and the result is a dramatic drop in forum participation. Official forums are a GREAT place for talking about how great a game a without being challenged. That niche is already well covered. The niche for MMORPG.COM is the one where folks can have sometimes contentious debates without the fear of someone calling for the hall monitor.
Unfortunately, as soon as someone starts to post anything even remotely combative (pro or con) they get reported and penalized. Folks need to understand that those conflicting opinions are the actual CONTENT of this site. We are now reaping what has been sowed. Visits and participation are way, way down. It's obvious to anyone who has been here for years.
I don't think you are understanding "trash".
You can have different opinions and debate without being an asshole.
Doesn't mean you have to be warm and fluffy. There are plenty of people on this site who are not "warm and fluffy"; that's just who they are.
And you are incorrect; just because someone reports someone doesn't mean they are going to get penalized/banned.
You only get penalized/banned if you are essentially breaking the rules or "being an asshole".
Conflicting opinions are fine. Pointing out where people are incorrect is fine. Being assertive is fine. Agreeing to disagree always works too.
But being "a d1ck" just doesn't cut it.
In the last year I have received exactly one warning. But that is because I know the rules better than some of the moderators and can structure an argument to fit that. The point that YOU are missing is that the site participation is dwindling. This is because lots of people that actually provide the CONTENT of the site (pro and con) have been chased away by people who want to call the hall monitor every chance they get. Far more people have been chased away than those acting like "trash".
The people are the content here. The arguments are the content here. The safe-space environment has unfortunately removed a lot of that content, either directly by banning posters or by people not even bothering to start a topic because it will just be flagged. If this thread were about a game, I am sure someone would flag this post for "trolling" because it was the 3rd somewhat negative one I posted in the same thread... and as we all know repeatedly posting negative comments can be construed as "trolling" (while the same guy who loves a game can post the exact same thing 100 times with no impact).
MMORPG forums are currently trying to fit into the same niche as the official game forums. There is no point to that. I take the fact that this thread has not been locked as a positive sign. It seems to indicate that at least the folks are open to listening.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This site definitely isn't top for MMO news (I use MOP for that), but this site still retains the best MMO forums imo, even if they are in decline.
There are definitely things the staff could do to improve the site, primarily:
Improved site design - there have been a couple of failed attempts this year to update the look and feel of the site, as well as a few minor changes. This doesn't really affect regular visitors, but a new visitor to the site isn't going to be encouraged by the current design. It is very outdated and messy and the most important content (news and features) isn't obvious.
More news and features - As mentioned, I go to massively op for my MMO news. They have a lot more news items on their site, seems to be a pretty constant stream every day. Their reviews / analysis aren't as good as here, but some of their columns are better. If they had forums, chances are I would be lurking there rather than here.
That said, both of these things take large amounts of time and money. I work in web development and if we were approached to rebuild this site and migrate all the content, we'd be asking £20k minimum I would have thought. I'm guessing they don't have anywhere near that budget which is why they're having to do some of the work themselves and why there are problems.
Same with more news and features. I would guess most of the columnists here do it for free, or minimal money, but it's hard to get your creative juices flowing for substandard products. I certainly wouldn't want to write about generic asian grinders or potential indie mmo #12.
The main issue really is the genre. I've been lurking here since 2004 but only really started posting in the last 2 years. When a big new game comes out things are great - plenty of news and features from the staff and tons of forum engagement from the community. However, they are few and far between. So, we all end up discussing the same old shit, over and over - sandbox vs themepark, horizontal vs vertical progression, quests vs grinding, power gaps, action vs tactical combat etc.....
Now, I enjoy these conversations and the forum pvp, but it is repetitive. I mainly do it because I'm bored at work and taking 20mins out to trawl the forums and make a few posts is a good distraction, but outside of work I rarely visit these forums as I'd rather be playing games.
Eventually I'll give up. There are only so many times I can repeat the same arguments, correct the same mistakes from the same people and reminisce about the same old games. If there isn't new stimuli to generate new conversations, stagnation is inevitable. 2016 has been particularly bad, but 2017 promises to be the year of the indie MMO. Good or bad, they're certain to generate a lot of interesting debates here.
Seriously Massively? They're an echo chamber of subjective bias. That's about the last place I've ever gone for news and it's worse since the reboot.
The news and columns at MOP are fine. The comments are at about the same level of shitposting that goes on here. The layout looks great. The layout here looks like a kindergartner ate a box of crayons and puked on a piece of paper.
This site definitely isn't top for MMO news (I use MOP for that), but this site still retains the best MMO forums imo, even if they are in decline.
There are definitely things the staff could do to improve the site, primarily:
Improved site design - there have been a couple of failed attempts this year to update the look and feel of the site, as well as a few minor changes. This doesn't really affect regular visitors, but a new visitor to the site isn't going to be encouraged by the current design. It is very outdated and messy and the most important content (news and features) isn't obvious.
More news and features - As mentioned, I go to massively op for my MMO news. They have a lot more news items on their site, seems to be a pretty constant stream every day. Their reviews / analysis aren't as good as here, but some of their columns are better. If they had forums, chances are I would be lurking there rather than here.
That said, both of these things take large amounts of time and money. I work in web development and if we were approached to rebuild this site and migrate all the content, we'd be asking £20k minimum I would have thought. I'm guessing they don't have anywhere near that budget which is why they're having to do some of the work themselves and why there are problems.
Same with more news and features. I would guess most of the columnists here do it for free, or minimal money, but it's hard to get your creative juices flowing for substandard products. I certainly wouldn't want to write about generic asian grinders or potential indie mmo #12.
The main issue really is the genre. I've been lurking here since 2004 but only really started posting in the last 2 years. When a big new game comes out things are great - plenty of news and features from the staff and tons of forum engagement from the community. However, they are few and far between. So, we all end up discussing the same old shit, over and over - sandbox vs themepark, horizontal vs vertical progression, quests vs grinding, power gaps, action vs tactical combat etc.....
Now, I enjoy these conversations and the forum pvp, but it is repetitive. I mainly do it because I'm bored at work and taking 20mins out to trawl the forums and make a few posts is a good distraction, but outside of work I rarely visit these forums as I'd rather be playing games.
Eventually I'll give up. There are only so many times I can repeat the same arguments, correct the same mistakes from the same people and reminisce about the same old games. If there isn't new stimuli to generate new conversations, stagnation is inevitable. 2016 has been particularly bad, but 2017 promises to be the year of the indie MMO. Good or bad, they're certain to generate a lot of interesting debates here.
Seriously Massively? They're an echo chamber of subjective bias. That's about the last place I've ever gone for news and it's worse since the reboot.
The news and columns at MOP are fine. The comments are at about the same level of shitposting that goes on here. The layout looks great. The layout here looks like a kindergartner ate a box of crayons and puked on a piece of paper.
that's facetious to say the least, or you aren't very aware of general web design. At worst MMORPG's design is outdated, at best, it's functional and serves a decent purpose for navigating and advertising.
MOP doesn't have a "great" layout anymore than a wordpress blog has a "great" layout. It's a simplistic cookie cutter layout. When disseminating a lot of information on a single screen, MMORPG does fair, even though it IS still outdated, but a much more up to date version would be like what you see at IGN.
For popular games, maybe consider 3 forums. Lightside, Darkside, General?
Alternately 2 sections: Normal and Unmoderated.
The current setup is kind of a no-mans land where moderation is at times haphazard and uneven and really only serves to diminish the enjoyment of both supporters and detractors.
Also keep in mind that it is conflicting opinions that drive traffic to the forums. The forums are what differentiates this site from places like Massively(also a great site but generally just news and opinions with limited reader interaction). You should be focused on ways to spark debate and conversation.
You can have different opinions and debate without people acting like trash.
Sure you can. I still stand by the concept that overly sensitive folks have tried to turn this into an mmo "safe space" and the result is a dramatic drop in forum participation. Official forums are a GREAT place for talking about how great a game a without being challenged. That niche is already well covered. The niche for MMORPG.COM is the one where folks can have sometimes contentious debates without the fear of someone calling for the hall monitor.
Unfortunately, as soon as someone starts to post anything even remotely combative (pro or con) they get reported and penalized. Folks need to understand that those conflicting opinions are the actual CONTENT of this site. We are now reaping what has been sowed. Visits and participation are way, way down. It's obvious to anyone who has been here for years.
I don't think you are understanding "trash".
You can have different opinions and debate without being an asshole.
Doesn't mean you have to be warm and fluffy. There are plenty of people on this site who are not "warm and fluffy"; that's just who they are.
And you are incorrect; just because someone reports someone doesn't mean they are going to get penalized/banned.
You only get penalized/banned if you are essentially breaking the rules or "being an asshole".
Conflicting opinions are fine. Pointing out where people are incorrect is fine. Being assertive is fine. Agreeing to disagree always works too.
But being "a d1ck" just doesn't cut it.
In the last year I have received exactly one warning. But that is because I know the rules better than some of the moderators and can structure an argument to fit that. The point that YOU are missing is that the site participation is dwindling. This is because lots of people that actually provide the CONTENT of the site (pro and con) have been chased away by people who want to call the hall monitor every chance they get. Far more people have been chased away than those acting like "trash".
The people are the content here. The arguments are the content here. The safe-space environment has unfortunately removed a lot of that content, either directly by banning posters or by people not even bothering to start a topic because it will just be flagged. If this thread were about a game, I am sure someone would flag this post for "trolling" because it was the 3rd somewhat negative one I posted in the same thread... and as we all know repeatedly posting negative comments can be construed as "trolling" (while the same guy who loves a game can post the exact same thing 100 times with no impact).
MMORPG forums are currently trying to fit into the same niche as the official game forums. There is no point to that. I take the fact that this thread has not been locked as a positive sign. It seems to indicate that at least the folks are open to listening.
One doesn't have to incite drama to create content. Having great discussions can do that.
I'll go as far as to say that "not" removing the bad community would probably be worse for business as companies might not want to be part of a site that becomes a wasteland of hatred, sexism, and personal attacks.
As far as the community dwindling, i would bet good money that it has less to do with removing people who are more interested in personal attacks than discussion and more about less and less good games being released.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Yep, I'm rarely warm and fluffy, yet I rarely get warnings or infractions. It's simply a matter of stating your peace, without injecting a personal attack in with it. It's also a good rule of thumb to stay away from repeatedly injecting a negative presence into any game's regular discussion. The people that regularly do those things, are the ones you grow accustomed to seeing bars over their name, or that banned pic...
Pretty much "this" in a nutshell.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I'd agree with that for the most part. There are some posters though that are very adamant in talking over all reasonable conversation however, or seem to post with the express purpose of dragging out provocative argument.
The "cash shop theory" thread I prior posted in for example had one guy pretty much derailing and trolling the whole thing into the ground. The OP of this post is/was very similar in that manner, and you tend to be able to have reasonable conversation for so long before you realize that such people are not actually interested in a reasonable conversation or actually debating a point, they simply want people to agree with their beliefs.
And that can get frustrating. The sane thing to do certainly would to simply not interact with people that are like that, but sometimes one can feel like that does as much harm to leave those types of people alone to go ranting whatever they want unchecked. An artificial sense of responsibility gets built, and then you're now stuck with the idea that nagging voice in the back of your head to be the knight.
This wouldn't be a problem perhaps if that form of behavior was addressed more directly, as that is the type of behavior that is systemic to trolling, yet for some reason is apparently not considered such on this site. It's only when individuals do something else that an admin finally chooses to step in and intervene in those situations, which tends to mean those threads have gotten very far out of hand before anyone steps in to fix things. By the time that happens, it drags other members of the forums that were trying to damage control in the absence of mods in as casualties, and that's kind of a ridiculous situation to be stuck in.
I feel like the drop off in user base is greater than the drop off in the popularity of MMOs. However to a certain extent, that's why I'm here. I've historically found that these forums move too fast to keep up with. Now they move along at a much more manageable pace where I can log on and see the same topics on the front page for a few days, and actually follow the conversations I'm interested in.
If this community was as active as it used to be, I wouldn't be checking in as regularly as I am now.
Lets be honest here, back in the day the greater majority of activity was nothing but petty bickering that went on for hours. While that element still exists, (Star Citizen anyone?) Today it's a lot easier to wade through the trash and find sensible discussion. IF that's a result of diminished activity.. It's not without a silver lining...
Edit to add.. No matter what, this site is run by people who care about it, that's enough to keep me around. It's nice to be able to know humans are guiding the experience and they're obviously deeply involved with their own community, if you need to speak to one of them directly. you can...
There aren't many sites with this level of success you can say that about, the writers don't behave as though they need a go between standing between them and their audience, that's rare.
Not sure I could agree with a post more. I need a THIS! button, agree isn't cutting it!
The absence of Kopogero and many others should be something the staff here should re-examine and why such popular individuals are no longer participating here. Kopogero made these forums far more entertaining than I can think of most in this community and as you know that's what draws individuals to participate on forums. As far as I remember Kopogero choose to be banned from here due to the approach the staff had toward those who were breaking the terms of service around here.
Given the level of trollishness that some of the current posters have that's tolerated here I'm somewhat glad I missed this individual if they actually pushed the envelope far enough to have something done about it. Then again, given one of those trolls "LOL"ed your post, maybe I shouldn't be.
The mmorpg genre of today is boring, there are no longer any mainstream AAA mmorpg in development and the asian mmorpg we have had as a replacement haven't been that interesting. We still wait for crowdfunded mmorpg to come near completion but what we have gotten so far are bold promises and at best alphas that are nothing like the game that's promised.
My hype for the mmorpg genre died when it became obvious that everquest next wasn't going to happy.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
One doesn't have to incite drama to create content. Having great discussions can do that.
I'll go as far as to say that "not" removing the bad community would probably be worse for business as companies might not want to be part of a site that becomes a wasteland of hatred, sexism, and personal attacks.
As far as the community dwindling, i would bet good money that it has less to do with removing people who are more interested in personal attacks than discussion and more about less and less good games being released.
You've been proven wrong by the numbers, they kept the forum clean and numbers are down. Removing all "controversial" posters and making it difficult for opinionated people to post in fact removed the "Forum Content", the very reason why people would read the Forums in the first place. You can deny it as much as you like but numbers don't support your theory as this site is in undeniable decline, and as I said before, because this site covers MMORPGs + Mobas + RPGs + Online Games, it has a potential base of 10+ Millions so the excuse that MMORPGs are in decline hence this site follow suite is a non argument. The reason must be something else.
Why would I want to read about how fantastic WoW is when I can do the same on WoW official Forums? (I would like you to actually answer this question) In fact I see more negative posts in WoW forums than this site. I want a place where I can talk freely about how bad a game is and how can be improved, MMORPG.com served that purpose, not anymore. Of course you don't care if this site has 100 active members or 1 Million, the website is not yours and you are not affected by it, you have now a safe place to talk about MMOs so I am sure that makes you happy. But I am not sure the site owners are happy about the current situation. Some of us are offering a different take on why MMORPG.com is in decline, site owners and managers are free to look into it and do something about it or keep thinking that a "clean" forum is the way to go and blame the decline of MMORPGs (forgetting they cover MOBAs RPGs and in general all Online Games which are not in decline at all but on the rise, particularly MOBAs).
I used to pop by here every day, now I rarely come once a week and I still play MMORPGs... So, what changed?
I won't lie, uneven moderation just wore me down. Some folks get warnings for sneezing in the wrong thread, others get free run more or less. Sometimes it just seems it isn't what you say that gets you targeted, but who you say it to. In a debate with a mod on their posting account, or their buddy? Warning incoming.
And, yeah, I am aware that I will get a warning or ban for this, but, like I say, I don't use the site that much anymore, so... ok.
For popular games, maybe consider 3 forums. Lightside, Darkside, General?
Alternately 2 sections: Normal and Unmoderated.
The current setup is kind of a no-mans land where moderation is at times haphazard and uneven and really only serves to diminish the enjoyment of both supporters and detractors.
Also keep in mind that it is conflicting opinions that drive traffic to the forums. The forums are what differentiates this site from places like Massively(also a great site but generally just news and opinions with limited reader interaction). You should be focused on ways to spark debate and conversation.
You can have different opinions and debate without people acting like trash.
You can, but people engage more to negative stimuli, that's just a fact. People post more when they are mad. A 100% respectful heavily policed symposium of emotionless intellectual intercourse is a fine goal, but without a little salt you will see poster numbers drop until all that is left is the same old names regurgitating the same old ideas around and around.
I'm not saying run /b/ but there is a wisdom in not being too heavy handed.
I registered in 2004, I just lurk and visit occasionally to see whats happening.
Forums, tbh, are a dead medium now - with twitter, facebook, and other social-media outlets, its no wonder the forums are in a decline (amongst other problems, like MMO's becoming a niche genre again)
Gaming has taken a lot of different forms now - with mobile games and apps becoming the most popular, the days of bustling MMO's with bustling forums are pretty over. Times have changed. Even the official forums for many of todays MMO's don't see much activity, compared to what it used to be 10 years ago.
I enjoy undercutting people in the market place - it's the only PvP a crafter gets.
I stopped visiting regularly when they lost their objectivity. I understand the need to make money when your viewer base starts dwindling but you're either an objective critic or paid promoter. You either eat your cake or you have it. Never both.
I registered in 2004, I just lurk and visit occasionally to see whats happening.
Forums, tbh, are a dead medium now - with twitter, facebook, and other social-media outlets, its no wonder the forums are in a decline (amongst other problems, like MMO's becoming a niche genre again)
Gaming has taken a lot of different forms now - with mobile games and apps becoming the most popular, the days of bustling MMO's with bustling forums are pretty over. Times have changed. Even the official forums for many of todays MMO's don't see much activity, compared to what it used to be 10 years ago.
This feels closest to "right" to me.
I was once a regular reader of several forums. Now, this is the only one i come to regularly.
gamelist has a shitton of inactive games most of games on this site are not mmorpg getting warnings from mods.. provoking others in reacting in a negative matter? which considers trolling lawl
tbh there are better sites on the net that provide usefull info about mmorpgs only.
Yes the inactive games is an issue for sure...i went looking for a new game a month ago and all I got was dead end after dead end.
One doesn't have to incite drama to create content. Having great discussions can do that.
I'll go as far as to say that "not" removing the bad community would probably be worse for business as companies might not want to be part of a site that becomes a wasteland of hatred, sexism, and personal attacks.
As far as the community dwindling, i would bet good money that it has less to do with removing people who are more interested in personal attacks than discussion and more about less and less good games being released.
You've been proven wrong by the numbers, they kept the forum clean and numbers are down. Removing all "controversial" posters and making it difficult for opinionated people to post in fact removed the "Forum Content", the very reason why people would read the Forums in the first place. You can deny it as much as you like but numbers don't support your theory as this site is in undeniable decline, and as I said before, because this site covers MMORPGs + Mobas + RPGs + Online Games, it has a potential base of 10+ Millions so the excuse that MMORPGs are in decline hence this site follow suite is a non argument. The reason must be something else.
Why would I want to read about how fantastic WoW is when I can do the same on WoW official Forums? (I would like you to actually answer this question) In fact I see more negative posts in WoW forums than this site. I want a place where I can talk freely about how bad a game is and how can be improved, MMORPG.com served that purpose, not anymore. Of course you don't care if this site has 100 active members or 1 Million, the website is not yours and you are not affected by it, you have now a safe place to talk about MMOs so I am sure that makes you happy. But I am not sure the site owners are happy about the current situation. Some of us are offering a different take on why MMORPG.com is in decline, site owners and managers are free to look into it and do something about it or keep thinking that a "clean" forum is the way to go and blame the decline of MMORPGs (forgetting they cover MOBAs RPGs and in general all Online Games which are not in decline at all but on the rise, particularly MOBAs).
Yet countless times I've seen people claim they steer clear of these forums because it is a "cesspool of negativity"
So which is it, people respond more to negativity, or they prefer to avoid it?
You've brought up the WOW forums several times now, how is their participation these days? My guess is the numbers are down, for the many reasons listed by others.
There is no single cause of the decline, its a combination of several things and my guess heavy handed moderation is a bit further down the list than some others.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yet countless times I've seen people claim they steer clear of these forums because it is a "cesspool of negativity"
Oh I heard that term many times too.....but so what? I don't doubt there are few snowflakes that don't like confrontation and
are quick to use the report button at the slightest sign of
controversiality......but are we sure they are the majority, or just the
vocal minority? I guess being labeled a "cesspool of negativity" has made an effect on MMORPG.com site owners since they caved in and decided to wipe all the negativity and confrontation all together from the forums. But then again that's exactly what people who labeled this site as such wanted in the first place....so well done, mission accomplished.
Forums are made for confrontations, it's a place to discuss opposite ideas, both POSITIVE and NEGATIVE. That's the point of Forums. In Roman times a Forum was the venue for public speeches, criminal trials, and gladiatorial matches. MMORPG.com managed to limit "public speeches" (penalizing negative posts), ban "criminal trials" (games over-criticism), and scrap "gladiator matches" (confrontation between two opposite arguments) So we don't have a Forum anymore, just a place where people stroke each other back.
Regarding the argument that time moved on. Yes it did. Today we have Facebook and Twitter but none of those are direct competition to the Forums as having articulate debates it is not realistic in those media which are tailored for quick conversations, rather proper debates.......did you try having a debate about your favorite MMO on Whatsup?.....Try and let me know. Youtube and Twitch could be competition ONLY for the content of the site, as people prefer watching News, Reviews and Guides rather than reading it, but it is not competition for the Forums (by the way, why not collaborate with some of the most popular Youtubers and Twitchers to create content for MMORPG.com? .... just a thought). Only real competitor for the Forum is Reddit, but then again, Reddit is just another Forum, so MMORPG.com should ask themselves why people prefer Reddit over their Forum.
Regardless of all new media available today though, and even acknowledging that the MMORPG market is in decline, there is the fact that MMORPG.com can still tap on a 10+ Million market (Only MOBAs alone cover that) yet the forum is virtually dead compared to 4-5 years ago. Now you can blame it on the MMO market and new technologies all you like but the huge slump in Forum activity is not justifiable based only on those reasons alone.
Comments
The forum rule that negative comments can be considered "trolling" basicly gives moderators a wildcard to warn you whenever you speak out against their respectively favorite game, company or if you antagonize one of their favorite posters.
The moderation bias is real and many have experienced it. It was even worse back then with a certain moderator that fortunately is no longer active here, but it has been more or less an ongoing problem i witnessed and experienced first hand since i joined here. At times it was so obvious that members suspected two certain users to be moderators abusing their powers. This is an absolute MUST NOT for every community.
Oh yes, we still have community@mmorpg.com. I have been warned for borderline nothing twice and wrote Mike a mail about that..didn't get an answer at all.
You can have different opinions and debate without being an asshole.
Doesn't mean you have to be warm and fluffy. There are plenty of people on this site who are not "warm and fluffy"; that's just who they are.
And you are incorrect; just because someone reports someone doesn't mean they are going to get penalized/banned.
You only get penalized/banned if you are essentially breaking the rules or "being an asshole".
Conflicting opinions are fine. Pointing out where people are incorrect is fine. Being assertive is fine. Agreeing to disagree always works too.
But being "a d1ck" just doesn't cut it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The people are the content here. The arguments are the content here. The safe-space environment has unfortunately removed a lot of that content, either directly by banning posters or by people not even bothering to start a topic because it will just be flagged. If this thread were about a game, I am sure someone would flag this post for "trolling" because it was the 3rd somewhat negative one I posted in the same thread... and as we all know repeatedly posting negative comments can be construed as "trolling" (while the same guy who loves a game can post the exact same thing 100 times with no impact).
MMORPG forums are currently trying to fit into the same niche as the official game forums. There is no point to that. I take the fact that this thread has not been locked as a positive sign. It seems to indicate that at least the folks are open to listening.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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The news and columns at MOP are fine. The comments are at about the same level of shitposting that goes on here. The layout looks great. The layout here looks like a kindergartner ate a box of crayons and puked on a piece of paper.
MOP doesn't have a "great" layout anymore than a wordpress blog has a "great" layout. It's a simplistic cookie cutter layout. When disseminating a lot of information on a single screen, MMORPG does fair, even though it IS still outdated, but a much more up to date version would be like what you see at IGN.
I'll go as far as to say that "not" removing the bad community would probably be worse for business as companies might not want to be part of a site that becomes a wasteland of hatred, sexism, and personal attacks.
As far as the community dwindling, i would bet good money that it has less to do with removing people who are more interested in personal attacks than discussion and more about less and less good games being released.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The "cash shop theory" thread I prior posted in for example had one guy pretty much derailing and trolling the whole thing into the ground. The OP of this post is/was very similar in that manner, and you tend to be able to have reasonable conversation for so long before you realize that such people are not actually interested in a reasonable conversation or actually debating a point, they simply want people to agree with their beliefs.
And that can get frustrating. The sane thing to do certainly would to simply not interact with people that are like that, but sometimes one can feel like that does as much harm to leave those types of people alone to go ranting whatever they want unchecked. An artificial sense of responsibility gets built, and then you're now stuck with the idea that nagging voice in the back of your head to be the knight.
This wouldn't be a problem perhaps if that form of behavior was addressed more directly, as that is the type of behavior that is systemic to trolling, yet for some reason is apparently not considered such on this site. It's only when individuals do something else that an admin finally chooses to step in and intervene in those situations, which tends to mean those threads have gotten very far out of hand before anyone steps in to fix things. By the time that happens, it drags other members of the forums that were trying to damage control in the absence of mods in as casualties, and that's kind of a ridiculous situation to be stuck in.
If this community was as active as it used to be, I wouldn't be checking in as regularly as I am now.
My hype for the mmorpg genre died when it became obvious that everquest next wasn't going to happy.
Removing all "controversial" posters and making it difficult for opinionated people to post in fact removed the "Forum Content", the very reason why people would read the Forums in the first place.
You can deny it as much as you like but numbers don't support your theory as this site is in undeniable decline, and as I said before, because this site covers MMORPGs + Mobas + RPGs + Online Games, it has a potential base of 10+ Millions so the excuse that MMORPGs are in decline hence this site follow suite is a non argument.
The reason must be something else.
Why would I want to read about how fantastic WoW is when I can do the same on WoW official Forums? (I would like you to actually answer this question)
In fact I see more negative posts in WoW forums than this site.
I want a place where I can talk freely about how bad a game is and how can be improved, MMORPG.com served that purpose, not anymore.
Of course you don't care if this site has 100 active members or 1 Million, the website is not yours and you are not affected by it, you have now a safe place to talk about MMOs so I am sure that makes you happy.
But I am not sure the site owners are happy about the current situation.
Some of us are offering a different take on why MMORPG.com is in decline, site owners and managers are free to look into it and do something about it or keep thinking that a "clean" forum is the way to go and blame the decline of MMORPGs (forgetting they cover MOBAs RPGs and in general all Online Games which are not in decline at all but on the rise, particularly MOBAs).
I won't lie, uneven moderation just wore me down. Some folks get warnings for sneezing in the wrong thread, others get free run more or less. Sometimes it just seems it isn't what you say that gets you targeted, but who you say it to. In a debate with a mod on their posting account, or their buddy? Warning incoming.
And, yeah, I am aware that I will get a warning or ban for this, but, like I say, I don't use the site that much anymore, so... ok.
You can, but people engage more to negative stimuli, that's just a fact. People post more when they are mad. A 100% respectful heavily policed symposium of emotionless intellectual intercourse is a fine goal, but without a little salt you will see poster numbers drop until all that is left is the same old names regurgitating the same old ideas around and around.
I'm not saying run /b/ but there is a wisdom in not being too heavy handed.
I registered in 2004, I just lurk and visit occasionally to see whats happening.
Forums, tbh, are a dead medium now - with twitter, facebook, and other social-media outlets, its no wonder the forums are in a decline (amongst other problems, like MMO's becoming a niche genre again)
Gaming has taken a lot of different forms now - with mobile games and apps becoming the most popular, the days of bustling MMO's with bustling forums are pretty over. Times have changed. Even the official forums for many of todays MMO's don't see much activity, compared to what it used to be 10 years ago.
I enjoy undercutting people in the market place - it's the only PvP a crafter gets.
MAGA
I was once a regular reader of several forums. Now, this is the only one i come to regularly.
So which is it, people respond more to negativity, or they prefer to avoid it?
You've brought up the WOW forums several times now, how is their participation these days? My guess is the numbers are down, for the many reasons listed by others.
There is no single cause of the decline, its a combination of several things and my guess heavy handed moderation is a bit further down the list than some others.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Oh I heard that term many times too.....but so what?
I don't doubt there are few snowflakes that don't like confrontation and are quick to use the report button at the slightest sign of controversiality......but are we sure they are the majority, or just the vocal minority?
I guess being labeled a "cesspool of negativity" has made an effect on MMORPG.com site owners since they caved in and decided to wipe all the negativity and confrontation all together from the forums.
But then again that's exactly what people who labeled this site as such wanted in the first place....so well done, mission accomplished.
Forums are made for confrontations, it's a place to discuss opposite ideas, both POSITIVE and NEGATIVE.
That's the point of Forums.
In Roman times a Forum was the venue for public speeches, criminal trials, and gladiatorial matches.
MMORPG.com managed to limit "public speeches" (penalizing negative posts), ban "criminal trials" (games over-criticism), and scrap "gladiator matches" (confrontation between two opposite arguments)
So we don't have a Forum anymore, just a place where people stroke each other back.
Regarding the argument that time moved on.
Yes it did.
Today we have Facebook and Twitter but none of those are direct competition to the Forums as having articulate debates it is not realistic in those media which are tailored for quick conversations, rather proper debates.......did you try having a debate about your favorite MMO on Whatsup?.....Try and let me know.
Youtube and Twitch could be competition ONLY for the content of the site, as people prefer watching News, Reviews and Guides rather than reading it, but it is not competition for the Forums (by the way, why not collaborate with some of the most popular Youtubers and Twitchers to create content for MMORPG.com? .... just a thought).
Only real competitor for the Forum is Reddit, but then again, Reddit is just another Forum, so MMORPG.com should ask themselves why people prefer Reddit over their Forum.
Regardless of all new media available today though, and even acknowledging that the MMORPG market is in decline, there is the fact that MMORPG.com can still tap on a 10+ Million market (Only MOBAs alone cover that) yet the forum is virtually dead compared to 4-5 years ago.
Now you can blame it on the MMO market and new technologies all you like but the huge slump in Forum activity is not justifiable based only on those reasons alone.