It's hard for folks who grew accustomed to SWG, to move into other MMORPGs, that part I understand. It takes a complete rewrite of expectations. Which is easier said than done. I was there at one point myself long ago.. I no longer expect a social experience when I play an MMORPG, I no longer expect a myriad of character building options, and I no longer expect such hardcore guild vs guild rivalries and role-play.
Now I expect a decent co-op experience with my wife, a lot of story related questing and a bit of PVP on the side. I can still have fun in them so that's all that matters.
Well, how do you think it is for us who began with Guild Wars 1? I mean, WoW / EQ-likes are like a complete new world to us. Thank the lord that there are MMOs like SWTOR / ESO / etc(story heavy MMOs) as well as TSW / ESO etc(build heavy MMOs) or...we'd be gone I believe.
I doubt it's as severe as to SWG-ers, but trust me, I understand and I feel the dissonance between what I grew to like and grew accustomed to and what the reality of a today's MMO is. GW, SWG and such are exceptions. I'd argue that EQ-likes are the true MMOs. But this is basically "what is reality" question, so could be inconsequential, if important to this discussion.
I get what you're saying GW1 was actually my PVP back up back then, which it's the only match based PVP I've enjoyed in this genre ( somewhat of this genre). I'm sure it was the same for EQ, DAOC and UO diehards as well. Not to mention hardcore EVE players.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And to say WOW was a social experience... BS.... I went there with a lot of folks from my guild, which is exactly what drove me away, they went from being social role-players to being silent content locusts who were always too busy soloing to come help with guild leveling, meetings etc... Our guild went from being a hardcore PVP guild to being all about crappy soulless questing, and itemized rewards.. Hence sticking with SWG through the NGE... It was still much more of a social RP as well as PVP experience.
Same phenomenon my guild experienced, super social, helpful and friendly in DAOC, to disconnected, self absorbed cliques that eventually broke up what thrived for many years.
It's the game designs and mechanics! So few refuse to accept the very efforts to streamline and mainstream MMORPG's basically destroyed them for the original audience.
Now people tells us to give up, or change our tastes, F-that, I'm here, I've got a forum to bitch on, and you're all just stuck with me.
The good news is the tourists are leaving in droves for other titles, soon what will be left is the purists and the much smaller titles designed for their niches.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This is ridiculous. If swg launched today it would be a horrible game. Swg closed 6 years ago and not a single game has tried to copy it. Why? Because it want a very good game. Sure a few of you are holding onto swg because if was like your first "gf" the one that got away, but not getting over that "gf" after 6 years and not moving on is just as sad as not getting over a video game that wasn't very good.
I think that the biggest problem with MMO players (like you) is that you get your hopes set on future games being "improved" based on your own personal standards. Very few other genres have the same sort of fanatical fanbase as MMORPGs. We simply set our standards too high. Look at First Person Shooters, what has really changed about FPS from 1999 to now? Not a whole lot.
Yeah but you still have the basics. It would be like Overwatch came out and they stopped making Call of Duty and Battlefield type FPS and only "hero" based shooters for 12 years.
That's because people who prefer Battlefield or Call of Duty didn't leave their preferred game in droves to play something else... The MMO audience is responsible for the popularity of the WOW model. Their leaving their supposedly preferred type of game for WOW, is what set the precedent for that to be the model of the genre moving forward. If you were one that did so, you're responsible for the lack of what you allege to prefer.
Thats not really fair. When i left SWG to join WoW it was a very social game. Things started to turn bad a few years later when they decided to change things to pander to the super casuals in an attempt to bring in more players. By this point the MMO scene had changed a lot and almost every game coming out was trying to cash in on the new WoW model so there really wasnt much of a choice for people like me at this point. Either stay with WoW or try out one of the new games that was basically a wow clone.
Since then things have improved a little and there's more diversity but its mostly coming from indie's and kickstarters.
The more they changed the game, the more people left. The population now is no where near what it was before all these changes were made. Your argument is invalid.
WOW was a shallow experience in comparison to SWG even in Vanilla (the only time I ever tried it, which I went right back to SWG until long past the NGE). Sorry i have to stick by my point... You say everything turned into a WOW clone, WTH do you think caused that, if not that most MMO players were playing it? They left the more open ended deep experiences like UO, DAOC, SWG, EQ etc.. they say they prefer and miss, for WOW..
Numbers drive what is being created, the numbers said it all, the loss in players in those older games to WOW said all that needed be said, no matter what one wants to write on a forum.
And to say WOW was a social experience... BS.... I went there with a lot of folks from my guild, which is exactly what drove me away, they went from being social role-players to being silent content locusts who were always too busy soloing to come help with guild leveling, meetings etc... Our guild went from being a hardcore PVP guild to being all about crappy soulless questing, and itemized rewards.. Hence sticking with SWG through the NGE... It was still much more of a social RP experience.
I missed SWG and yes in many ways vanila was quite shallow compared to my past experiences with games like Eve online etc. But vanila was still a very socialable game and i enjoyed it greatly. I cant help that we had very different experiences with vanila but i never experienced anything you just mentioned.
By the start of wrath they had over 10 million subs if i remember correctly. Then they began making all the changes which a lot of people didnt ask for or want. As expected they got even more subs as millions more who had never really played MMO's tried WoW and enjoyed it, meanwhile most of the older players stuck with it out of loyalty and perhaps a hope that things would change. As years went on more changes came about to care for the casual and solo players and more and more of the vanila players left. At this point most of the other options out there were just copying WoW in its current form because the industry thought this was what people wanted. They were wrong and im supported with this by the fact that so many of those games failed. Wildstar was probably the last of them.
I still play legion and whenever i speak to anyone about past expacs im almost always told they joined in wrath/cata/MoP. Its very rare to find a vanila player in legion. We didnt betray the genre, we were betrayed by blizzard. Many got married had families and stopped playing these games, many more stuck with WoW as long as they could before they just got burnt out and became bitter.
This is ridiculous. If swg launched today it would be a horrible game. Swg closed 6 years ago and not a single game has tried to copy it. Why? Because it want a very good game. Sure a few of you are holding onto swg because if was like your first "gf" the one that got away, but not getting over that "gf" after 6 years and not moving on is just as sad as not getting over a video game that wasn't very good.
SWG launched in 2003.... I felt it was a very good game at the time, I don't think anything has come close in terms of RP, player options, social experience, or PVP environment. But I guess you missed my first post, I moved on from it long ago and happily play modern games with my wife... SO your point is?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And to say WOW was a social experience... BS.... I went there with a lot of folks from my guild, which is exactly what drove me away, they went from being social role-players to being silent content locusts who were always too busy soloing to come help with guild leveling, meetings etc... Our guild went from being a hardcore PVP guild to being all about crappy soulless questing, and itemized rewards.. Hence sticking with SWG through the NGE... It was still much more of a social RP as well as PVP experience.
Same phenomenon my guild experienced, super social, helpful and friendly in DAOC, to disconnected, self absorbed cliques that eventually broke up what thrived for many years.
It's the game designs and mechanics! So few refuse to accept the very efforts to streamline and mainstream MMORPG's basically destroyed them for the original audience.
Now people tells us to give up, or change our tastes, F-that, I'm here, I've got a forum to bitch on, and you're all just stuck with me.
The good news is the tourists are leaving in droves for other titles, soon what will be left is the purists and the much smaller titles designed for their niches.
Good riddance to the rest I say.
It's rather sad a site like this allows those like you the "safe space" to "bitch" nonstop. And if a person tells the truth about how out of touch with reality those like you are this site gives you these cool bars.
This is ridiculous. If swg launched today it would be a horrible game. Swg closed 6 years ago and not a single game has tried to copy it. Why? Because it want a very good game. Sure a few of you are holding onto swg because if was like your first "gf" the one that got away, but not getting over that "gf" after 6 years and not moving on is just as sad as not getting over a video game that wasn't very good.
SWG launched in 2003.... I felt it was a very good game at the time, I don't think anything has come close in terms of RP, player options, social experience, or PVP environment. But I guess you missed my first post, I moved on from it long ago and happily play modern games with my wife... SO your point is?
Hmm...I don't recall directing my comment at you...it was directed at those in this thread and site who clearly have not moved on...
Same phenomenon my guild experienced, super social, helpful and friendly in DAOC, to disconnected, self absorbed cliques that eventually broke up what thrived for many years.
It's the game designs and mechanics! So few refuse to accept the very efforts to streamline and mainstream MMORPG's basically destroyed them for the original audience.
Now people tells us to give up, or change our tastes, F-that, I'm here, I've got a forum to bitch on, and you're all just stuck with me.
The good news is the tourists are leaving in droves for other titles, soon what will be left is the purists and the much smaller titles designed for their niches.
Good riddance to the rest I say.
It's rather sad a site like this allows those like you the "safe space" to "bitch" nonstop. And if a person tells the truth about how out of touch with reality those like you are this site gives you these cool bars.
Now you're just taking away the intrigue behind why you got those bars... And why you will probably have a big red image fairly soon... for shame, there could have actually been a cool story behind it.
Hint they're talking about a game genre, you're talking about people...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Same phenomenon my guild experienced, super social, helpful and friendly in DAOC, to disconnected, self absorbed cliques that eventually broke up what thrived for many years.
It's the game designs and mechanics! So few refuse to accept the very efforts to streamline and mainstream MMORPG's basically destroyed them for the original audience.
Now people tells us to give up, or change our tastes, F-that, I'm here, I've got a forum to bitch on, and you're all just stuck with me.
The good news is the tourists are leaving in droves for other titles, soon what will be left is the purists and the much smaller titles designed for their niches.
Good riddance to the rest I say.
It's rather sad a site like this allows those like you the "safe space" to "bitch" nonstop. And if a person tells the truth about how out of touch with reality those like you are this site gives you these cool bars.
Now you're just taking away the intrigue behind why you got those bars... And why you will probably have a big red image fairly soon... for shame, there could have actually been a cool story behind it.
Yeah clearly one of the mods doesn't like me...well good thing he can use his power to suppress views he doesn't like I guess...this is a private site so not much I can do but laugh at him.
This is ridiculous. If swg launched today it would be a horrible game. Swg closed 6 years ago and not a single game has tried to copy it. Why? Because it want a very good game. Sure a few of you are holding onto swg because if was like your first "gf" the one that got away, but not getting over that "gf" after 6 years and not moving on is just as sad as not getting over a video game that wasn't very good.
SWG launched in 2003.... I felt it was a very good game at the time, I don't think anything has come close in terms of RP, player options, social experience, or PVP environment. But I guess you missed my first post, I moved on from it long ago and happily play modern games with my wife... SO your point is?
Hmm...I don't recall directing my comment at you...it was directed at those in this thread and site who clearly have not moved on...
I was the one talking about the awesomeness of SWG right above your post, as well as the fallout after it ... so forgive my confusion.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is ridiculous. If swg launched today it would be a horrible game. Swg closed 6 years ago and not a single game has tried to copy it. Why? Because it want a very good game. Sure a few of you are holding onto swg because if was like your first "gf" the one that got away, but not getting over that "gf" after 6 years and not moving on is just as sad as not getting over a video game that wasn't very good.
If people want to play SWG there's still a server around somewhere. Its the idea that people miss. The idea that the players make the game, that its the interactions between players that create most of the fun and excitment. Each server had its own identity, people could make a name for themselves. Crafters had repuations among comunities, players built citites defining the world maps. When you did something you did it because you wanted to, because it was fun. Now people expect a reward for doing something. No reward? then fuck it, ill stand in the city and be bored.
This is ridiculous. If swg launched today it would be a horrible game. Swg closed 6 years ago and not a single game has tried to copy it. Why? Because it want a very good game. Sure a few of you are holding onto swg because if was like your first "gf" the one that got away, but not getting over that "gf" after 6 years and not moving on is just as sad as not getting over a video game that wasn't very good.
If people want to play SWG there's still a server around somewhere. Its the idea that people miss. The idea that the players make the game, that its the interactions between players that create most of the fun and excitment. Each server had its own identity, people could make a name for themselves. Crafters had repuations among comunities, players built citites defining the world maps. When you did something you did it because you wanted to, because it was fun. Now people expect a reward for doing something. No reward? then fuck it, ill stand in the city and be bored.
I'm very aware of the things you could do in swg. I'm very aware if a game came out today with the grind swg had for everything it wouldn't last. The bugs swg had wouldn't be acceptable either, gameplay was horrible so on and so on.
Now I do agree with your later point about today's younger games but that is a biproduct of these getting participation trophies their entire life.
Change in topic but... Participation trophies are a biproduct of previous generations not participating and society trying to find ways to encourage people to do so. Break the cycle of parents teaching their children that participating in events, society, culture, politics.... is a waste of time. That is the argument anyway.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
OP, I think you just enjoyed being part of a small underground community tbh. Nostalrius gave you that again. EvE became too big and WoW too mainstream and so you left, nothing excited about it anymore. And since the genre blew up there isn't anything underground about it at all anymore.
It really isn't any games fault, it is a mindset. SWG was failing before NGE and even harder after it. It was a twitching corpse, shot in the back of the head and then dumped in the desert. It also wasn't really good tbh. But again, it is not about that, or any other game. It is about the person and his or her disconnect, the mindset and expectations. And your first MMO love? You will not find that love again, I am sorry. Enter that which is with an open mind, be critical without being unreasonable, and be fair in how you approach a game, that is all you can do. If all of that fails? Then at this current point in time the genre really isn't for you. It has been and might be again in the future, but right now? Probably not.
But really, if it has been 11 years, it might not be the genre at all.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
This is ridiculous. If swg launched today it would be a horrible game. Swg closed 6 years ago and not a single game has tried to copy it. Why? Because it want a very good game. Sure a few of you are holding onto swg because if was like your first "gf" the one that got away, but not getting over that "gf" after 6 years and not moving on is just as sad as not getting over a video game that wasn't very good.
If people want to play SWG there's still a server around somewhere. Its the idea that people miss. The idea that the players make the game, that its the interactions between players that create most of the fun and excitment. Each server had its own identity, people could make a name for themselves. Crafters had repuations among comunities, players built citites defining the world maps. When you did something you did it because you wanted to, because it was fun. Now people expect a reward for doing something. No reward? then fuck it, ill stand in the city and be bored.
I'm very aware of the things you could do in swg. I'm very aware if a game came out today with the grind swg had for everything it wouldn't last. The bugs swg had wouldn't be acceptable either, gameplay was horrible so on and so on.
Now I do agree with your later point about today's younger games but that is a biproduct of these getting participation trophies their entire life.
Youre talking about grind and bugs, i was talking about the idea behind the game. Those are two different things. And also, the vanila WoW servers that are popping up are super popular, the last stress test for the new elysium server had something like 10k people log on just to be helpful. Lots of hard core grind, and half the class specs arnt even playable, yet tens of thousands want to play it. One server became so popular that blizzard had to take legal action to close it down.
Getting really tired of hearing "the genre just isn't for you anymore" when it's almost always total bull. All there's been is wow clones and the devs don't bother to listen. Its not hatred of the genre, it's hatred of the copies of the same games with a gimmick and different graphics.
If he hasn't found an mmo to play for more than a few days, for the last 11 years, then the genre isn't for him.
Now I have people calling games like Destiny an MMO and the whole genre being pretty much killed off by this new wave of miss identity. Kids don't even get the concept of the MMO any more, the seamless world with thousands of people being in one place. Now GTA V is an MMO to them.....
He nailed it here. It's not that the genre isn't for him anymore, it's that it's not available for him anymore. I feel the same way.
MisterZebub said: Yeah that's the fucking reality of it. After rage quitting ESO over their gambling boxes, and avoiding several new games because I don't care for the way they're merchandised, day one DLC, selling power ups in a single player game, etc, I've decided its time to spend my money and time elsewhere. This will be the first holiday season in over two decades where I'm not spending money on anything video game related. It sucks as I still enjoy gaming, but I accept the fact that I'm no longer part of the industry's target market.
Well put friend. Personally, I've taken up programming. I occasionally come here since these forums will provide a more social aspect than any online game out now (sadly). But my sig says it all, as I am also not a target audience any longer.
That argument still doesn't hold up. If he hasn't found a good game to play in 11 years, including those old ones, then the genre isn't for him. Maybe he changed, maybe it changed, maybe both. Either way none of the genre offerings tickle his fancy, therefore the genre currently is not for him. Maybe it will be in the future but it is not currently.
Maybe you should stop jumping to conclusions and actually try and understand what the real problem is.
Analogy time...
I enjoy most fruits except grapefruit. It's sour and bitter to me. I don't like it. Now lets see how the following conversation would go...
You: Would you like some fruit? Me: What kind you got? You: I have tons of grape fruit! Me: eh no thanks. You: what, you don't like fruit? Comon, I have ripe ones, almost ripe ones, big ones, small ones. Me: I like fruit, just not grapefruit. You: maybe fruit is not for you then.
You see how your conclusion fails here??
P.S. I last enjoyed Lineage 2 (2003 - 2006). So it's been about 10 years for me as well.
Funny because your analogy sounds more like:
I just like grapefruit, it is the only fruit I like, no other fruit will do..
You: Can I have some grapefruit? Me: We have tons of different fruits, just not grapefruit. Could I interest you in anything else? You: No! Only grapefruit will do. Me: But we have more types of fruit then ever before, there must be something you might like. You: No thanks, it isn't grapefruit now is it? Me: Sigh, your loss.
Don't act like you like most stuff except one thing, the opposite seems to be true. There is more choice then ever, and not just one flavor...
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
And to say WOW was a social experience... BS.... I went there with a lot of folks from my guild, which is exactly what drove me away, they went from being social role-players to being silent content locusts who were always too busy soloing to come help with guild leveling, meetings etc... Our guild went from being a hardcore PVP guild to being all about crappy soulless questing, and itemized rewards.. Hence sticking with SWG through the NGE... It was still much more of a social RP as well as PVP experience.
Same phenomenon my guild experienced, super social, helpful and friendly in DAOC, to disconnected, self absorbed cliques that eventually broke up what thrived for many years.
It's the game designs and mechanics! So few refuse to accept the very efforts to streamline and mainstream MMORPG's basically destroyed them for the original audience.
Now people tells us to give up, or change our tastes, F-that, I'm here, I've got a forum to bitch on, and you're all just stuck with me.
The good news is the tourists are leaving in droves for other titles, soon what will be left is the purists and the much smaller titles designed for their niches.
Good riddance to the rest I say.
I think in both cases SWG and DAOC, it was the ownerships and having something to fight for, that lead to that kind of dedication and those kinds of relationships, as well as having the same cast there day in and day out. Today there's little to fight for, if there is, it's muddled by the lack of serious continual rivalries as well as alliances. (outside of EVE of course)...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is ridiculous. If swg launched today it would be a horrible game. Swg closed 6 years ago and not a single game has tried to copy it. Why? Because it want a very good game. Sure a few of you are holding onto swg because if was like your first "gf" the one that got away, but not getting over that "gf" after 6 years and not moving on is just as sad as not getting over a video game that wasn't very good.
If people want to play SWG there's still a server around somewhere. Its the idea that people miss. The idea that the players make the game, that its the interactions between players that create most of the fun and excitment. Each server had its own identity, people could make a name for themselves. Crafters had repuations among comunities, players built citites defining the world maps. When you did something you did it because you wanted to, because it was fun. Now people expect a reward for doing something. No reward? then fuck it, ill stand in the city and be bored.
I'm very aware of the things you could do in swg. I'm very aware if a game came out today with the grind swg had for everything it wouldn't last. The bugs swg had wouldn't be acceptable either, gameplay was horrible so on and so on.
Now I do agree with your later point about today's younger games but that is a biproduct of these getting participation trophies their entire life.
Youre talking about grind and bugs, i was talking about the idea behind the game. Those are two different things. And also, the vanila WoW servers that are popping up are super popular, the last stress test for the new elysium server had something like 10k people log on just to be helpful. Lots of hard core grind, and half the class specs arnt even playable, yet tens of thousands want to play it. One server became so popular that blizzard had to take legal action to close it down.
Well I said the game wasn't good based on how it played not the idea.
If the Elysuim server did have 10k (haven't heard that) that supports my claim about swg not being very good. The highest reported playbase for one of that last swgemu servers was under 2,000.
I enjoy most fruits except grapefruit. It's sour and bitter to me. I don't like it. Now lets see how the following conversation would go...
You: Would you like some fruit? Me: What kind you got? You: I have tons of grape fruit! Me: eh no thanks. You: what, you don't like fruit? Comon, I have ripe ones, almost ripe ones, big ones, small ones. Me: I like fruit, just not grapefruit. You: maybe fruit is not for you then.
You see how your conclusion fails here??
P.S. I last enjoyed Lineage 2 (2003 - 2006). So it's been about 10 years for me as well.
Grapefruits are all we have left. Either learn to like them or get off the line
Now I have people calling games like Destiny an MMO and the whole genre being pretty much killed off by this new wave of miss identity. Kids don't even get the concept of the MMO any more, the seamless world with thousands of people being in one place. Now GTA V is an MMO to them.....
Constantly however I've had people telling me "maybe you're bored of the genre" or some BS like that.
I remember playing SWG back in 2003 and saying "if this is possible now, then in 10 years I cannot imagine how complex MMOs will be"....
The genre that was known as mmorpg is gone replaced by something new that stole the nametag (or some of it as all call it "mmo" now). If you have been with the genre since late 90ies you will know this, but if you started mid 2k you have no clue.
This is where all discussions here go to pieces, there are those who define mmo as it were and those who define mmo as it is, and this is like trying to explain something complex to someone who does not speak their language.
This is why we get OP's post which is spot on from the perspective of a "veteran" because the definition of mmo to him is based on what mmorpg used to be. And at the same time, responses such as "bored of the genre" and "rose tinted glasses" comes from those who define mmo as the genre it has changed into (current) either by not knowing/recognizing the change or has the argument "there is no point in discussing what were, only what is".
EqNext was the hope of real evo(revo)lution from the perspective of a veteran, as it (on paper) described the dreams we had in early 2000 for where the genre could evolve. You have to have read the details of what EqNext were trying to do and know what mmo used to be to appreciate and recognize that the idea is true next gen. I am not quite as pessimistic as OP, as I think we will see stronger definitions in the future to distinguish different mmo subgenres, hopefully by better names than "mmo". Within these we will see design philosophies from old mmorpgs and evolved ideas as well as themepark, lobby games, survival.
I enjoy most fruits except grapefruit. It's sour and bitter to me. I don't like it. Now lets see how the following conversation would go...
You: Would you like some fruit? Me: What kind you got? You: I have tons of grape fruit! Me: eh no thanks. You: what, you don't like fruit? Comon, I have ripe ones, almost ripe ones, big ones, small ones. Me: I like fruit, just not grapefruit. You: maybe fruit is not for you then.
You see how your conclusion fails here??
P.S. I last enjoyed Lineage 2 (2003 - 2006). So it's been about 10 years for me as well.
Grapefruits are all we have left. Either learn to like them or get off the line
What a horrible perspective. F*** grapefruits, we are aware we can have good fruit. We've seen it and tasted it and it was taken away. You keep your vine, I'm starting a new one with like-minded gamers.
Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.
I just like grapefruit, it is the only fruit I like, no other fruit will do..
You: Can I have some grapefruit? Me: We have tons of different fruits, just not grapefruit. Could I interest you in anything else? You: No! Only grapefruit will do. Me: But we have more types of fruit then ever before, there must be something you might like. You: No thanks, it isn't grapefruit now is it? Me: Sigh, your loss.
Don't act like you like most stuff except one thing, the opposite seems to be true. There is more choice then ever, and not just one flavor...
No gamer can compete in the rose-colored glasses competition like SWG 'vets". Always so sad...so sad...
The good news is every year there are less and less of these bitter swg vets, not sure if they are all dying off from the stress off their video game closing so many years ago or a lot of them have just grown up and moved on.
Which is good.
I really couldn't stomach the spoiled princess mentality in that game. Of course those players will never admit they were the root cause of SWG's demise. Blame it on something else...anything else.
Can you you imagine how shitty (more than it already is) the genre would be if those people became the representation of the standard MMO player mindset? *shudder*
This is ridiculous. If swg launched today it would be a horrible game. Swg closed 6 years ago and not a single game has tried to copy it. Why? Because it want a very good game. Sure a few of you are holding onto swg because if was like your first "gf" the one that got away, but not getting over that "gf" after 6 years and not moving on is just as sad as not getting over a video game that wasn't very good.
Thats bullsheet.
SWG wasnt my first MMO. And i dont praise it. It was an unfinished product with really laggy servers. And then WoW came out....
i love SWG because of ..... Star Wars (how to become a jedi was a unknown thing) .... the social interaction, the crafting and economy model, the classes....
i loved Age of Conan and AO too. But since a long time, games become worse for me. one part of the problem for me are those free to play cash shop games. A game build around a business model. Those not finished products selling early accesses and even betas. I had the problem finding communities because i have no rl friends who play games. How to find online friends when most people play for themself and even most guilds are nothing more than another global chat.
Comments
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's the game designs and mechanics! So few refuse to accept the very efforts to streamline and mainstream MMORPG's basically destroyed them for the original audience.
Now people tells us to give up, or change our tastes, F-that, I'm here, I've got a forum to bitch on, and you're all just stuck with me.
The good news is the tourists are leaving in droves for other titles, soon what will be left is the purists and the much smaller titles designed for their niches.
Good riddance to the rest I say.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
By the start of wrath they had over 10 million subs if i remember correctly. Then they began making all the changes which a lot of people didnt ask for or want. As expected they got even more subs as millions more who had never really played MMO's tried WoW and enjoyed it, meanwhile most of the older players stuck with it out of loyalty and perhaps a hope that things would change. As years went on more changes came about to care for the casual and solo players and more and more of the vanila players left. At this point most of the other options out there were just copying WoW in its current form because the industry thought this was what people wanted. They were wrong and im supported with this by the fact that so many of those games failed. Wildstar was probably the last of them.
I still play legion and whenever i speak to anyone about past expacs im almost always told they joined in wrath/cata/MoP. Its very rare to find a vanila player in legion.
We didnt betray the genre, we were betrayed by blizzard.
Many got married had families and stopped playing these games, many more stuck with WoW as long as they could before they just got burnt out and became bitter.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Hint they're talking about a game genre, you're talking about people...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Now I do agree with your later point about today's younger games but that is a biproduct of these getting participation trophies their entire life.
It really isn't any games fault, it is a mindset. SWG was failing before NGE and even harder after it. It was a twitching corpse, shot in the back of the head and then dumped in the desert. It also wasn't really good tbh. But again, it is not about that, or any other game. It is about the person and his or her disconnect, the mindset and expectations. And your first MMO love? You will not find that love again, I am sorry. Enter that which is with an open mind, be critical without being unreasonable, and be fair in how you approach a game, that is all you can do. If all of that fails? Then at this current point in time the genre really isn't for you. It has been and might be again in the future, but right now? Probably not.
But really, if it has been 11 years, it might not be the genre at all.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
And also, the vanila WoW servers that are popping up are super popular, the last stress test for the new elysium server had something like 10k people log on just to be helpful. Lots of hard core grind, and half the class specs arnt even playable, yet tens of thousands want to play it. One server became so popular that blizzard had to take legal action to close it down.
I just like grapefruit, it is the only fruit I like, no other fruit will do..
You: Can I have some grapefruit?
Me: We have tons of different fruits, just not grapefruit. Could I interest you in anything else?
You: No! Only grapefruit will do.
Me: But we have more types of fruit then ever before, there must be something you might like.
You: No thanks, it isn't grapefruit now is it?
Me: Sigh, your loss.
Don't act like you like most stuff except one thing, the opposite seems to be true. There is more choice then ever, and not just one flavor...
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If the Elysuim server did have 10k (haven't heard that) that supports my claim about swg not being very good. The highest reported playbase for one of that last swgemu servers was under 2,000.
This is where all discussions here go to pieces, there are those who define mmo as it were and those who define mmo as it is, and this is like trying to explain something complex to someone who does not speak their language.
This is why we get OP's post which is spot on from the perspective of a "veteran" because the definition of mmo to him is based on what mmorpg used to be. And at the same time, responses such as "bored of the genre" and "rose tinted glasses" comes from those who define mmo as the genre it has changed into (current) either by not knowing/recognizing the change or has the argument "there is no point in discussing what were, only what is".
EqNext was the hope of real evo(revo)lution from the perspective of a veteran, as it (on paper) described the dreams we had in early 2000 for where the genre could evolve. You have to have read the details of what EqNext were trying to do and know what mmo used to be to appreciate and recognize that the idea is true next gen.
I am not quite as pessimistic as OP, as I think we will see stronger definitions in the future to distinguish different mmo subgenres, hopefully by better names than "mmo". Within these we will see design philosophies from old mmorpgs and evolved ideas as well as themepark, lobby games, survival.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I really couldn't stomach the spoiled princess mentality in that game. Of course those players will never admit they were the root cause of SWG's demise. Blame it on something else...anything else.
Can you you imagine how shitty (more than it already is) the genre would be if those people became the representation of the standard MMO player mindset? *shudder*
~~ postlarval ~~
SWG wasnt my first MMO. And i dont praise it. It was an unfinished product with really laggy servers. And then WoW came out....
i love SWG because of ..... Star Wars (how to become a jedi was a unknown thing) .... the social interaction, the crafting and economy model, the classes....
i loved Age of Conan and AO too. But since a long time, games become worse for me. one part of the problem for me are those free to play cash shop games. A game build around a business model. Those not finished products selling early accesses and even betas. I had the problem finding communities because i have no rl friends who play games. How to find online friends when most people play for themself and even most guilds are nothing more than another global chat.