In the end it feels like the fruit of a problem and not the root of it in and of itself. The industry couldn't make it on subs alone. They couldn't make it on cash shops alone. Now they hit you from all angles (alpha/beta/EA buy ins, box/dlc fees, cash shop, and subs) and they are cranking up the prices wherever they can. At least it feels that way in the last year or so.
The industry was just fine on subs. The problem was that in order to compete with the WoW juggernaut companies decided to essentially give their games away and try to lure whales in to pay big bucks. The problems is that devalued the MMORPG commodity. It set expectations with people that they should not even have to pay anything for a product, as though somehow they were doing the world a favor by playing it. Instead of people looking at a $15 sub and going "Wow I can play for 100 hours a month which comes out to 15 cents an hour!!!", they go "Why should I pay $15 when the other ones are free".
"F2P" is the scourge of gaming.
You keep setting up the narrative you want to believe. It doesn't change reality though.
Pot... meet kettle.
Yeah because an entire industry collectively made that revenue shift decision because they thought they thought that would make more money by dropping the mandatory minimum fee and adding a cash shop.
And then you're trying to sell the idea that mmorpgs are a commodity, which they're not, and that it devalued them, which it didn't because mmorpgs charge as much as ever for each kind of revenue stream offered. Industry wide, have sub fees gone down? Have expansions and dlc fees gone down? Have cash shop items been devalued? No! None of that is true.
Take a true commodity, say petroleum, and when it is devalued you can see that fluctuation in the price of petroleum products and how it affects the global economy and, at the very least, use that commodity as an indicator of global economic conditions.
Sure. Like I said, you're setting up the narrative you want to believe. I'm not sure why @Kyleran would agree with such a shallow poorly reasoned personal attack (something you always cry about), but I can only guess that maybe he wants to believe your story too.
And all you can come up with is pot meet kettle as a rebuttal is because, as always, you have nothing of actual substance to say. Lot's a words, mostly air. You post is a juvenile diatribe because you have nothing else to bring to the discussion.
He may have used the term "commodity" inappropriately but his general point is not wrong. Calling the payment model free to play and not charging subs does indeed create a different expectation going in even if it's just at a superficial subconscious level even though we all know that free has severe limitations in all of them.
And he is also right that subs always were and still are a good deal if it's something you play a lot.
And F2P is indeed the scourge of gaming. It has created an acceptance of what amounts to commercials in MMOs as normal at both the development and playing levels. It's a rare MMO these days that can be experienced as just game play without some minor or major cash shop intrusion.
The current MMO business model may be a necessary evil (although I'm not even sure that it is necessary) but it does absolutely nothing to enhance game play - quite the opposite.
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In the end it feels like the fruit of a problem and not the root of it in and of itself. The industry couldn't make it on subs alone. They couldn't make it on cash shops alone. Now they hit you from all angles (alpha/beta/EA buy ins, box/dlc fees, cash shop, and subs) and they are cranking up the prices wherever they can. At least it feels that way in the last year or so.
The industry was just fine on subs. The problem was that in order to compete with the WoW juggernaut companies decided to essentially give their games away and try to lure whales in to pay big bucks. The problems is that devalued the MMORPG commodity. It set expectations with people that they should not even have to pay anything for a product, as though somehow they were doing the world a favor by playing it. Instead of people looking at a $15 sub and going "Wow I can play for 100 hours a month which comes out to 15 cents an hour!!!", they go "Why should I pay $15 when the other ones are free".
"F2P" is the scourge of gaming.
You keep setting up the narrative you want to believe. It doesn't change reality though.
Pot... meet kettle.
Yeah because an entire industry collectively made that revenue shift decision because they thought they thought that would make more money by dropping the mandatory minimum fee and adding a cash shop.
And then you're trying to sell the idea that mmorpgs are a commodity, which they're not, and that it devalued them, which it didn't because mmorpgs charge as much as ever for each kind of revenue stream offered. Industry wide, have sub fees gone down? Have expansions and dlc fees gone down? Have cash shop items been devalued? No! None of that is true.
Take a true commodity, say petroleum, and when it is devalued you can see that fluctuation in the price of petroleum products and how it affects the global economy and, at the very least, use that commodity as an indicator of global economic conditions.
Sure. Like I said, you're setting up the narrative you want to believe. I'm not sure why @Kyleran would agree with such a shallow poorly reasoned personal attack (something you always cry about), but I can only guess that maybe he wants to believe your story too.
And all you can come up with is pot meet kettle as a rebuttal is because, as always, you have nothing of actual substance to say. Lot's a words, mostly air. You post is a juvenile diatribe because you have nothing else to bring to the discussion.
You are very off base in your analysis. There is a massive percentage of players that won't pay a $15 sub because it's not worth it since other games let them play for "free". If you fail to see that the problem is on your end.
As for a personal attack... I think you need to take a look at the thread and re-evaluate your thoughts. You said I was setting up a narrative I wanted to believe which was different from reality. I used the Pot/Kettle analogy which is essentially saying "Hey right back at ya". Again, if you see some sort of personal attack in that the problem is on your end. When someone has a different opinion on a discussion it's not in any way shape or form a personal attack so lets just agree to stick to the topic.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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In the end it feels like the fruit of a problem and not the root of it in and of itself. The industry couldn't make it on subs alone. They couldn't make it on cash shops alone. Now they hit you from all angles (alpha/beta/EA buy ins, box/dlc fees, cash shop, and subs) and they are cranking up the prices wherever they can. At least it feels that way in the last year or so.
The industry was just fine on subs. The problem was that in order to compete with the WoW juggernaut companies decided to essentially give their games away and try to lure whales in to pay big bucks. The problems is that devalued the MMORPG commodity. It set expectations with people that they should not even have to pay anything for a product, as though somehow they were doing the world a favor by playing it. Instead of people looking at a $15 sub and going "Wow I can play for 100 hours a month which comes out to 15 cents an hour!!!", they go "Why should I pay $15 when the other ones are free".
"F2P" is the scourge of gaming.
You keep setting up the narrative you want to believe. It doesn't change reality though.
Pot... meet kettle.
Yeah because an entire industry collectively made that revenue shift decision because they thought they thought that would make more money by dropping the mandatory minimum fee and adding a cash shop.
And then you're trying to sell the idea that mmorpgs are a commodity, which they're not, and that it devalued them, which it didn't because mmorpgs charge as much as ever for each kind of revenue stream offered. Industry wide, have sub fees gone down? Have expansions and dlc fees gone down? Have cash shop items been devalued? No! None of that is true.
Take a true commodity, say petroleum, and when it is devalued you can see that fluctuation in the price of petroleum products and how it affects the global economy and, at the very least, use that commodity as an indicator of global economic conditions.
Sure. Like I said, you're setting up the narrative you want to believe. I'm not sure why @Kyleran would agree with such a shallow poorly reasoned personal attack (something you always cry about), but I can only guess that maybe he wants to believe your story too.
And all you can come uP with is pot meet kettle as a rebuttal is because, as always, you have nothing of actual substance to say. Lot's a words, mostly air. You post is a juvenile diatribe because you have nothing else to bring to the discussion.
I was agreeing with him as you stated "You keep setting up the narrative you want to believe."
Whether your realize it or not, you do exactly the same thing. Heck almost everyone on these forums does it, even me of course. What ever "reality" you perceive, do realize, it's not a perfect representation for a variety of reasons and other's may perceive it differently.
I actually do agree with your assertion "Now they hit you from all angles (alpha/beta/EA buy ins, box/dlc fees, cash shop, and subs) and they are cranking up the prices wherever they can." and in fact I think monetization is the one area of greatest innovation in gaming in the past 15 years.
But the fact is, some gamers (many?) do in fact look at the price of a $15.00 sub as too expensive, even when they might willingly spend more than that in a different payment model. Narius will tell you he loves F2P and will do is his best to not spend money on entertainment when/if he can pull it off.
I personally believe having a class of players with no vested interest / purchase in a game is a bad idea, as do I believe appealing to players who can afford it (or mis-spend) with overly expensive in game items and advantages to also be bad for gaming as a whole.
At the end of the day, the market is what it is, and there's no going back. I know a few of the indies claim they are going to offer sub only options with limited or no cash shops. They are crazy if they do IMO, they need to ensure a proper revenue stream in order to keep their game healthy and growing, and try their best to not make it too onerous.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Uhm, in a casino you actually can earn money (well, it is stacked against you but people still win), in a RNG box you at best get a nice skin or a small advantage depending on the game.
So they are actually worse then casinos, not the same thing.
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Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
MMOs have always had RNG boxes, especially with Eastern style MMOs. The west just finally caught on.
It's actually quite absurd to see have low the drop rates are for the "legendary" loot is for the loot boxes though, surprisingly enough Valve is the worst offender in the US for this practice. Is it pay to win? No, but the drop rates for the rarest loot is well below a 0.1% drop rate.
Regardless of the issue, if the game is free and sells RNG boxes and I enjoy it. I'll throw them money on occasion, I'm playing for free after all.
That is fine, giving some money to a game you like has nothing to do with gambling. Good games should be encouraged and need income to survive.
But I at least would support those games no matter if they have RNG boxes (I tend to buy character slots or skins anyways when I feel a game have deserved some bucks).
I still wished they stopped with the RNG boxes, it is rather silly and sucks far too much money out of people with a gambling addiction. Yeah, they are (hopefully) grown men and women but it is still at best morally doubtful.
I remember when F2P was first introduced to the majority of western MMOs, I was against it but it at least had 2 very valid goals:
1) Reduce barrier to entry
Apparently paying £8.99 a month is too expensive for some people so devs wanted a way to reduce this barrier whilst still getting money. The goal of F2P was so that the players themselves could set their own limits of paying money. You'd get access to a small portion of the content and could then pick and choose the rest of the content on a timescale to suit your lifestyle.
So, if you only played for 2 hours a month, you could start the game for free, play for 6 months until you reached the end of the free content. Then you might spend £5 to unlock the next zone which would take you another 3 months to complete. Then £5 for the next zone etc etc.
This made sense to me. The total price of being F2P was more expensive that subbing, but you got to do it on a timescale that suited you.
2) Reduced development
Western gamers prefer subs. Eastern gamers prefer F2P. Developers were therefore having to maintain two payment systems to appease both markets. Part of the goal of F2P was to make the global codebase the same for everything, reducing dev costs and increasing reliability.
Again, another good goal.
I still don't really know how we've gotten from these two valid, reasonable goals of f2p to the modern cash shop ripoff. I don't approve and in fact tend to avoid all F2P games. I'll occasionally try one if the shop / prices are fair and reasonable and the game looks good, but so far that's only happened once (wildstar) and the game turned out to be bad anyway. I've been part of LotRO and SW:TOR when they converted to F2P and in both instances it made the games worse and contributed to me leaving.
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RNG is one of the main cornerstone of gaming, it always has been, it always will be and its basically part of the 'physics' of what makes games work so what the f are you people talking about?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
RNG is one of the main cornerstone of gaming, it always has been, it always will be and its basically part of the 'physics' of what makes games work so what the f are you people talking about?
I don't think the complaint in this thread is about "rng" so much as rng "as gambling" in order to get ahead.
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RNG is one of the main cornerstone of gaming, it always has been, it always will be and its basically part of the 'physics' of what makes games work so what the f are you people talking about?
I don't think the complaint in this thread is about "rng" so much as rng "as gambling" in order to get ahead.
its the same thing
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
RNG is one of the main cornerstone of gaming, it always has been, it always will be and its basically part of the 'physics' of what makes games work so what the f are you people talking about?
I don't think the complaint in this thread is about "rng" so much as rng "as gambling" in order to get ahead.
its the same thing
It's not.
Play a game of Monopoly, roll the dice and let chance decide what decisions you make. That's the game.
Play a game and pay additional money for a chance to get ahead or get something that one would normally get in game by playing.
Not quite the same thing. No judgement on my part.
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RNG is one of the main cornerstone of gaming, it always has been, it always will be and its basically part of the 'physics' of what makes games work so what the f are you people talking about?
I don't think the complaint in this thread is about "rng" so much as rng "as gambling" in order to get ahead.
its the same thing
It's not.
Play a game of Monopoly, roll the dice and let chance decide what decisions you make. That's the game.
Play a game and pay additional money for a chance to get ahead or get something that one would normally get in game by playing.
Not quite the same thing. No judgement on my part.
I would agree that there are difference but when I say 'they are the same' what I am trying to illustrate is that its not that far of a leap between RNG and 'casino' so people should keep their outrage in check.
i will agree I didnt express it properly when I said 'the same' what I am trying to suggest is the distance between the two is not that radical to warrant outrage. Also I should add that although RNG is an important cornerstone the the very 'physics' of games its not the only item that is an important cornerstone.
So when people go on for miles of text about how terrible it is that a roll of the dice is entered into your game they need to step back.
i should add I have heard 'what makes a game' defined as follows 'a way for a person to test out options based on randomized circumstances'
so randomization is one of the two main pillars of what makes a game. I would agree with that assessment so even though randomization is not a casino its pretty damn close that one should have perspective
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
So when people go on for miles of text about how terrible it is that a roll of the dice is entered into your game they need to step back
The roll of the dice didn't enter the game. It entered my purchase.
Let's go into McDonalds and order 5 mystery food boxes for $5. Will I get a BigMac? Chicken Sandwich? Apple Slices? Maybe I'll just get 5 drinks... who knows! Sounds like fun!
Cash shops in games are something I despise. RNG loot boxes in those cash shops is utterly ridiculous.
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"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
So when people go on for miles of text about how terrible it is that a roll of the dice is entered into your game they need to step back
The roll of the dice didn't enter the game. It entered my purchase.
Let's go into McDonalds and order 5 mystery food boxes for $5. Will I get a BigMac? Chicken Sandwich? Apple Slices? Maybe I'll just get 5 drinks... who knows! Sounds like fun!
Cash shops in games are something I despise. RNG loot boxes in those cash shops is utterly ridiculous.
You're getting Apple Slices and you'll like it!
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So when people go on for miles of text about how terrible it is that a roll of the dice is entered into your game they need to step back
The roll of the dice didn't enter the game. It entered my purchase.
Let's go into McDonalds and order 5 mystery food boxes for $5. Will I get a BigMac? Chicken Sandwich? Apple Slices? Maybe I'll just get 5 drinks... who knows! Sounds like fun!
Cash shops in games are something I despise. RNG loot boxes in those cash shops is utterly ridiculous.
actually for better or for worse the way i would look at it is this
money transferring has entered your game.
randomization of game is fundamental to game play, adding economics to the actual game play is a fairly new concept outside of the poker table and in general many sports. The principles of a casino already exist in a game, what is new is putting real money into the game play itself. that is where the focus of conversation should be in my opinion
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The roll of the dice didn't enter the game. It entered my purchase.
Let's go into McDonalds and order 5 mystery food boxes for $5. Will I get a BigMac? Chicken Sandwich? Apple Slices? Maybe I'll just get 5 drinks... who knows! Sounds like fun!
Cash shops in games are something I despise. RNG loot boxes in those cash shops is utterly ridiculous.
This stuff isn't like a casino, it's like those mystery eggs kids get out of a dispenser at a grocery store, you might get something cool, you might get some kind of pink slime blob. DO we now consider that gambling?
As far as what makes it in your purchase, it's whatever you put there... If you don't want it to be a mystery box? Don't put it in your cart, it's as simple as that. Might as well avoid loot crates and things of that sort as well in the physical world while you're at it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I remember making a big deal on these forums about the GW2 lock boxes and keys, and about their first seasonal even, Halloween. I was certainly in the minority back then... Good to see times are changing.
I think in a lot of cases people aren't understanding the lengths at which some games are going to "lock" things behind boxes.
For example, in one game that I've been playing, everything is monetized. You can pay to unlock a class. You pay to unlock storage space. etc. If you want any cosmetics, any at all, you HAVE to purchase a loot box.
Opening that loot box could give you anything from crafting materials to a costume for any class, even classes you don't already have - and can't use. Crafting materials are able to be earned in game, or upgrade tokens to make classes more powerful which also can drop for classes you don't have. (and also take storage space you have to pay for).
So basically you are paying for a chance to get items you can't use, or may never use unless you spend more money on things you don't want.
It's basically like getting a lottery scratch off ticket expecting to win a car and when "you win" you don't get a car, but a shift knob for a manual car which you don't drive.
RNG is in every facet of RPGs. Since before MMOs were even a thing. But the difference here is, when you paid for something from a cash shop, you received what you paid for.
Now you only receive a sliver a chance, and in some cases, if you're lucky, you'll get something you can use with the best outcome is receiving the actual item you want.
I dont say this as a complaint in a special snowflake way but rather as a fact. On these forums its fairly common place to pew pew games I like to play. Which is fine! everyone can play and should play what they want to play. But here is the thing, not a single game I play has in game monetization, at least not that I am aware of. In fact, in my entire life I have only seen it in game once so I barely even understand the full context of how it works.
So if one is playing the games they enjoy and those games have micro-transactions and they dont like micro-tranascations then...maybe...?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
So basically you are paying for a chance to get items you can't use, or may never use unless you spend more money on things you don't want.
It's basically like getting a lottery scratch off ticket expecting to win a car and when "you win" you don't get a car, but a shift knob for a manual car which you don't drive.
Again no it's not... It's like putting a quarter into a machine and getting a random toy, it may be one you like it may be one you don't. Yet in the end it's just a toy. The entire motivation behind it is completely different than what you see in the lottery or in Casinos (some kind of big monetary payout)...
I understand people don't like cashshops, but the way they try and paint this stuff is purely sensational. These things are digitized toys, some of them are "cool" some you will find useful, some of them are not, but in the end it's just a damn pixelated toy. It's nothing more than that. The hyperbole on this matter is getting quite old TBH.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So basically you are paying for a chance to get items you can't use, or may never use unless you spend more money on things you don't want.
It's basically like getting a lottery scratch off ticket expecting to win a car and when "you win" you don't get a car, but a shift knob for a manual car which you don't drive.
Again no it's not... It's like putting a quarter into a machine and getting a random toy, it may be one you like it may be one you don't. Yet in the end it's just a toy. The entire motivation behind it is completely different than what you see in the lottery or in Casinos (some kind of big monetary payout)...
I understand people don't like cashshops, but the way they try and paint this stuff is purely sensational. These things are digitized toys, some of them are "cool" some you will find useful, some of them are not, but in the end it's just a damn pixelated toy. It's nothing more than that. The hyperbole on this matter is getting quite old TBH.
but so is a game and people spend money on games.
to be clear for the record i am not fan of in game money transactions or things that are clearly nearly 100% a slot machine however i do see it as a valid game design if a developer feels it can work within the context of the game they are working on. it can be 'on the table' as far as I am concerned
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
And he is also right that subs always were and still are a good deal if it's something you play a lot.
And F2P is indeed the scourge of gaming. It has created an acceptance of what amounts to commercials in MMOs as normal at both the development and playing levels. It's a rare MMO these days that can be experienced as just game play without some minor or major cash shop intrusion.
The current MMO business model may be a necessary evil (although I'm not even sure that it is necessary) but it does absolutely nothing to enhance game play - quite the opposite.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
As for a personal attack... I think you need to take a look at the thread and re-evaluate your thoughts. You said I was setting up a narrative I wanted to believe which was different from reality. I used the Pot/Kettle analogy which is essentially saying "Hey right back at ya". Again, if you see some sort of personal attack in that the problem is on your end. When someone has a different opinion on a discussion it's not in any way shape or form a personal attack so lets just agree to stick to the topic.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Whether your realize it or not, you do exactly the same thing. Heck almost everyone on these forums does it, even me of course. What ever "reality" you perceive, do realize, it's not a perfect representation for a variety of reasons and other's may perceive it differently.
I actually do agree with your assertion "Now they hit you from all angles (alpha/beta/EA buy ins, box/dlc fees, cash shop, and subs) and they are cranking up the prices wherever they can." and in fact I think monetization is the one area of greatest innovation in gaming in the past 15 years.
But the fact is, some gamers (many?) do in fact look at the price of a $15.00 sub as too expensive, even when they might willingly spend more than that in a different payment model. Narius will tell you he loves F2P and will do is his best to not spend money on entertainment when/if he can pull it off.
I personally believe having a class of players with no vested interest / purchase in a game is a bad idea, as do I believe appealing to players who can afford it (or mis-spend) with overly expensive in game items and advantages to also be bad for gaming as a whole.
At the end of the day, the market is what it is, and there's no going back. I know a few of the indies claim they are going to offer sub only options with limited or no cash shops. They are crazy if they do IMO, they need to ensure a proper revenue stream in order to keep their game healthy and growing, and try their best to not make it too onerous.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So they are actually worse then casinos, not the same thing.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
But I at least would support those games no matter if they have RNG boxes (I tend to buy character slots or skins anyways when I feel a game have deserved some bucks).
I still wished they stopped with the RNG boxes, it is rather silly and sucks far too much money out of people with a gambling addiction. Yeah, they are (hopefully) grown men and women but it is still at best morally doubtful.
Been playing MMORPGs exclusively on emulator servers for about the past 6 months or more.
Would rather have nothing to do with this casino cash shop crap. It ruins games for me.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/1) Reduce barrier to entry
Apparently paying £8.99 a month is too expensive for some people so devs wanted a way to reduce this barrier whilst still getting money. The goal of F2P was so that the players themselves could set their own limits of paying money. You'd get access to a small portion of the content and could then pick and choose the rest of the content on a timescale to suit your lifestyle.
So, if you only played for 2 hours a month, you could start the game for free, play for 6 months until you reached the end of the free content. Then you might spend £5 to unlock the next zone which would take you another 3 months to complete. Then £5 for the next zone etc etc.
This made sense to me. The total price of being F2P was more expensive that subbing, but you got to do it on a timescale that suited you.
2) Reduced development
Western gamers prefer subs. Eastern gamers prefer F2P. Developers were therefore having to maintain two payment systems to appease both markets. Part of the goal of F2P was to make the global codebase the same for everything, reducing dev costs and increasing reliability.
Again, another good goal.
I still don't really know how we've gotten from these two valid, reasonable goals of f2p to the modern cash shop ripoff. I don't approve and in fact tend to avoid all F2P games. I'll occasionally try one if the shop / prices are fair and reasonable and the game looks good, but so far that's only happened once (wildstar) and the game turned out to be bad anyway. I've been part of LotRO and SW:TOR when they converted to F2P and in both instances it made the games worse and contributed to me leaving.
RNG is one of the main cornerstone of gaming, it always has been, it always will be and its basically part of the 'physics' of what makes games work so what the f are you people talking about?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I don't think the complaint in this thread is about "rng" so much as rng "as gambling" in order to get ahead.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
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Play a game of Monopoly, roll the dice and let chance decide what decisions you make. That's the game.
Play a game and pay additional money for a chance to get ahead or get something that one would normally get in game by playing.
Not quite the same thing. No judgement on my part.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
i will agree I didnt express it properly when I said 'the same' what I am trying to suggest is the distance between the two is not that radical to warrant outrage. Also I should add that although RNG is an important cornerstone the the very 'physics' of games its not the only item that is an important cornerstone.
So when people go on for miles of text about how terrible it is that a roll of the dice is entered into your game they need to step back.
i should add I have heard 'what makes a game' defined as follows
'a way for a person to test out options based on randomized circumstances'
so randomization is one of the two main pillars of what makes a game. I would agree with that assessment
so even though randomization is not a casino its pretty damn close that one should have perspective
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Let's go into McDonalds and order 5 mystery food boxes for $5. Will I get a BigMac? Chicken Sandwich? Apple Slices? Maybe I'll just get 5 drinks... who knows! Sounds like fun!
Cash shops in games are something I despise. RNG loot boxes in those cash shops is utterly ridiculous.
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Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
money transferring has entered your game.
randomization of game is fundamental to game play, adding economics to the actual game play is a fairly new concept outside of the poker table and in general many sports. The principles of a casino already exist in a game, what is new is putting real money into the game play itself. that is where the focus of conversation should be in my opinion
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As far as what makes it in your purchase, it's whatever you put there... If you don't want it to be a mystery box? Don't put it in your cart, it's as simple as that. Might as well avoid loot crates and things of that sort as well in the physical world while you're at it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
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For example, in one game that I've been playing, everything is monetized. You can pay to unlock a class. You pay to unlock storage space. etc. If you want any cosmetics, any at all, you HAVE to purchase a loot box.
Opening that loot box could give you anything from crafting materials to a costume for any class, even classes you don't already have - and can't use. Crafting materials are able to be earned in game, or upgrade tokens to make classes more powerful which also can drop for classes you don't have. (and also take storage space you have to pay for).
So basically you are paying for a chance to get items you can't use, or may never use unless you spend more money on things you don't want.
It's basically like getting a lottery scratch off ticket expecting to win a car and when "you win" you don't get a car, but a shift knob for a manual car which you don't drive.
RNG is in every facet of RPGs. Since before MMOs were even a thing. But the difference here is, when you paid for something from a cash shop, you received what you paid for.
Now you only receive a sliver a chance, and in some cases, if you're lucky, you'll get something you can use with the best outcome is receiving the actual item you want.
I dont say this as a complaint in a special snowflake way but rather as a fact. On these forums its fairly common place to pew pew games I like to play. Which is fine! everyone can play and should play what they want to play. But here is the thing, not a single game I play has in game monetization, at least not that I am aware of. In fact, in my entire life I have only seen it in game once so I barely even understand the full context of how it works.
So if one is playing the games they enjoy and those games have micro-transactions and they dont like micro-tranascations then...maybe...?
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I understand people don't like cashshops, but the way they try and paint this stuff is purely sensational. These things are digitized toys, some of them are "cool" some you will find useful, some of them are not, but in the end it's just a damn pixelated toy. It's nothing more than that. The hyperbole on this matter is getting quite old TBH.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
to be clear for the record i am not fan of in game money transactions or things that are clearly nearly 100% a slot machine however i do see it as a valid game design if a developer feels it can work within the context of the game they are working on. it can be 'on the table' as far as I am concerned
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