I like SQ42, it is what it was expectable, and it brings back the WC vibe that was its core pitch back then. I see the argumentation is now "Oh but it took all these years...", tho that is a rather mute argument; moving the narrative to slow progress is already progress from that usual "it's a scam that will never release" we're used to.
I don't see anyone here (or anywhere semi-intelligent) making the "scam" argument, but when two years ago they were claiming they were within an imminent launch of SQ42, to now being an "early pre-alpha WIP" pre-recorded demo that is being termed a "vertical slice" you kinda have to wonder ...
I'm not saying it should have been released by now, but to put themselves still at a pre-alpha portion of progress for what should be a much easier game to make compared to SC is kind of silly. If they can't even get SQ42 out the door within a reasonable time frame (accounting for some leeway, given its an "indie" studio, if you can still call it that), especially given its limited scope compared to SC ... I don't hold out much hope SC.
After 5-6 years of development, they should have a lot more to show off. With a pre-recorded tech demo (thats what it is at this point, as its labeled an "early pre-alpha WIP" essentially showing off the tech they've added over the years), they should have at least spent a bit more time polishing it up, especially since they have been hyping this particular video up for nearly a year now.
When did they say launch was imminent on squadron 42 ever. I've seen them say they had completed the white box phase on most missions but that is no-where near complete at that stage.
A lot of the information I've been going off of has been from stuff in early-to-mid 2015 (the last time I really kept up with development). For reference, here is the article (interview with Chris Roberts, published March 2015 by Polygon) and quote:
"Squadron 42 will be toward the end of the year[2015]. That's sort of basically
Wing Commander single-player narrative story. And then at the very end
of the year we will release the very early alpha of the persistent
universe. It wont be nearly all of the systems and planets, but we plan
to have five or six systems you can fly between. You won't be able to do
all of the things we're planning on you to do, but probablytrading,
mining, piracy, combat and a lot of core stuff.
...
By the end of this year[2015] backers will have everything they originally
pledged for plus a lot more," Roberts says. "But of course our intention
is that it's a much bigger, more expansive, huger game than I ever
considered we could do."
This is also partly why I still thought SQ42 and SC would be mostly separate games in terms of scope. I assumed the reference to the single-player campaign narrative story and persistent universe were completely separate concepts in terms of actual, separate games. Not necessarily separately developed, but developed alongside each other (sharing assets) in rather different scope.
At this point, to my knowledge, SQ42 wasn't simply an "offline mode" of SC, but a smaller scope game more comparable to Wing Commander. Obviously, if what you guys are saying is true, then SQ42 really isn't a separate game (apart from marketing reasons), but rather an "offline mode" with a story line.
That's why you take anything CRoberts says with a massive, world ending grain of salt. He's either a habitual liar or so inept at release dates that you should be worried either way about the status of the project. Either he's lying intentionally abou when it's due out or he's grossly underestimating dates even though his team is telling him otherwise (or they are too afraid to tell him proper dates which speaks to his management style still).
You don't have to look far for proof of incompetence either. Just look at the holiday livestream. They knew about it for a year, they knew the date and time they were going to start and yet it was something like 30 minutes before the scheduled start they announce they have to delay 24 hours because their pre recorded demo isn't ready. How bad of a project manager do you have to be to screw up that badly?
Yes, lets just leave out evolving development in order to bash Chris Roberts some more! And for the live stream lets pretend that we know what caused the delay, ignore the fact that it was pushed back 24hrs because 2 or 3 hrs delay would not have been good for their global audience, or that anyone even cares about the delay at all so we can blame Chris Roberts some more!
grrr that CR, bad bad man! I heard he once pulled the legs off a spider! we are talking pure concentrated evil in this man!
Evolving development doesn't excuse such concrete statements about timelines that were completely missed on the order of years.
Why not?
'we are going to build a shed, it will take a week at the most'
'it seems we won the lottery during the week, we are no longer building a shed, we are building something bigger'
because you say so? Perhaps we could say it doesn't excuse it for you? but then...you even have money in this damn thing?!
Spoken like a true white Knight. Ensure you don't get mud on your armor arguing the silly.
Nothing silly about it otherwise you could have given a 'concrete' logical response! And thank you for the concern but my armor is not shiny, they are robes and they never get muddy!
Oh, you're no longer even making reasonable posts, you've gone full on troll. We should really have labels for folks like you around here, so we know who to ignore at a glance.
Ship /interior work looks good but the game...play what is it?
Like players are going to get bored listening to scripted dialogue ,especially after the first time.
So what i am seeing here is a ship to wander around but the game play will be simple head out and destroy some enemy ship ,rinse and repeat.
Space is a very boring type of zone to hangout in,even if your all giddy about your ship.
Just like i said about Eve,if all i am doing is hanging out in a cockpit 90% of the game only to come back and get some quest,i would get bored very quickly.
Bottom line,what they are showing looks good for what it is ,as a game and longevity and feeling like a world,how long will that last,will it even be fun as watching these dialogues seemed kinda boring to me.
I also saw no interaction on the ship aside from dude sort of putting on his shirt after getting out of bed.
Does it look immersive what they showed us here,yeah kind of but not so exciting the immersion but least there is that feeling.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well this game is the most open development ever so how come we don't know what caused the delay? Is it because they are embarrassed at their continued incompetence and didn't want to say it?
I have no idea? perhaps it was because Chris Roberts was pulling 7 people from a flaming bus crash then proceeded to preform cardiopulmonary resuscitation and couldn't get to the studio in time. He is quite shy about these heroic things he often does in his spare time.
Ok it was pushed back 24 hours to not inconvienance their global audience (overlooking the fact that many booked the day off for this stream and CIG still didn't announce the delay until the stream was almost supposed to go live). And I can point out posts showing people did care but you'd probably ignore the evidence anyway.
Yes people cared about it at the time, they were disappointed. You however are the first person to mention it since being as it was only 24hrs, and no one really cares, like I said you only trying to use it as ammo against CR even though it may have nothing to do with him whatsoever, predictably boring. I can see it now
guy 1 "i'm not going to buy SC" guy 2 " :O why not!" guy 1 "the holiday live stream was delayed by 24hrs, i'm disgusted, I will never forgive and never forget!"
I'll give you a C for effort but in the future can you at least try to debate instead of your usual?
My usual? ohhhh, you mean the bit were I point out ridiculous opinions and replace them with facts or reasonable logical assumptions instead of just hate based rhetoric. OK
I like SQ42, it is what it was expectable, and it brings back the WC vibe that was its core pitch back then. I see the argumentation is now "Oh but it took all these years...", tho that is a rather mute argument; moving the narrative to slow progress is already progress from that usual "it's a scam that will never release" we're used to.
I don't see anyone here (or anywhere semi-intelligent) making the "scam" argument, but when two years ago they were claiming they were within an imminent launch of SQ42, to now being an "early pre-alpha WIP" pre-recorded demo that is being termed a "vertical slice" you kinda have to wonder ...
I'm not saying it should have been released by now, but to put themselves still at a pre-alpha portion of progress for what should be a much easier game to make compared to SC is kind of silly. If they can't even get SQ42 out the door within a reasonable time frame (accounting for some leeway, given its an "indie" studio, if you can still call it that), especially given its limited scope compared to SC ... I don't hold out much hope SC.
After 5-6 years of development, they should have a lot more to show off. With a pre-recorded tech demo (thats what it is at this point, as its labeled an "early pre-alpha WIP" essentially showing off the tech they've added over the years), they should have at least spent a bit more time polishing it up, especially since they have been hyping this particular video up for nearly a year now.
When did they say launch was imminent on squadron 42 ever. I've seen them say they had completed the white box phase on most missions but that is no-where near complete at that stage.
A lot of the information I've been going off of has been from stuff in early-to-mid 2015 (the last time I really kept up with development). For reference, here is the article (interview with Chris Roberts, published March 2015 by Polygon) and quote:
"Squadron 42 will be toward the end of the year[2015]. That's sort of basically
Wing Commander single-player narrative story. And then at the very end
of the year we will release the very early alpha of the persistent
universe. It wont be nearly all of the systems and planets, but we plan
to have five or six systems you can fly between. You won't be able to do
all of the things we're planning on you to do, but probablytrading,
mining, piracy, combat and a lot of core stuff.
...
By the end of this year[2015] backers will have everything they originally
pledged for plus a lot more," Roberts says. "But of course our intention
is that it's a much bigger, more expansive, huger game than I ever
considered we could do."
This is also partly why I still thought SQ42 and SC would be mostly separate games in terms of scope. I assumed the reference to the single-player campaign narrative story and persistent universe were completely separate concepts in terms of actual, separate games. Not necessarily separately developed, but developed alongside each other (sharing assets) in rather different scope.
At this point, to my knowledge, SQ42 wasn't simply an "offline mode" of SC, but a smaller scope game more comparable to Wing Commander. Obviously, if what you guys are saying is true, then SQ42 really isn't a separate game (apart from marketing reasons), but rather an "offline mode" with a story line.
That's why you take anything CRoberts says with a massive, world ending grain of salt. He's either a habitual liar or so inept at release dates that you should be worried either way about the status of the project. Either he's lying intentionally abou when it's due out or he's grossly underestimating dates even though his team is telling him otherwise (or they are too afraid to tell him proper dates which speaks to his management style still).
You don't have to look far for proof of incompetence either. Just look at the holiday livestream. They knew about it for a year, they knew the date and time they were going to start and yet it was something like 30 minutes before the scheduled start they announce they have to delay 24 hours because their pre recorded demo isn't ready. How bad of a project manager do you have to be to screw up that badly?
Yes, lets just leave out evolving development in order to bash Chris Roberts some more! And for the live stream lets pretend that we know what caused the delay, ignore the fact that it was pushed back 24hrs because 2 or 3 hrs delay would not have been good for their global audience, or that anyone even cares about the delay at all so we can blame Chris Roberts some more!
grrr that CR, bad bad man! I heard he once pulled the legs off a spider! we are talking pure concentrated evil in this man!
Evolving development doesn't excuse such concrete statements about timelines that were completely missed on the order of years.
Why not?
'we are going to build a shed, it will take a week at the most'
'it seems we won the lottery during the week, we are no longer building a shed, we are building something bigger'
because you say so? Perhaps we could say it doesn't excuse it for you? but then...you even have money in this damn thing?!
Spoken like a true white Knight. Ensure you don't get mud on your armor arguing the silly.
Nothing silly about it otherwise you could have given a 'concrete' logical response! And thank you for the concern but my armor is not shiny, they are robes and they never get muddy!
Oh, you're no longer even making reasonable posts, you've gone full on troll. We should really have labels for folks like you around here, so we know who to ignore at a glance.
Sorry, was there a reasonable response to give to your post? Please enlighten me? And I only refer to the ending of my post being silly, the first part looks pretty correct.
"Oh, you're no longer even making reasonable posts, you've gone full on troll."
interesting that this is what I thought about your post previous to this. I made perfectly reasonable observations and have been met with nothing but trolling and flame baiting. But sure....its me!
I'm 100% willing to admit that I don't keep up with SQ42/SC as much as possible, simply because the torrent of information coming from CIG is usually too much to sift through for truly meaningful information. So, I will concede that perhaps SQ42 has the same scope as SC; however, I still don't think that after 5-6 years of development that the tech demo released is anything other than disappointing. At this point, I do feel they should be further along, especially considering that SQ42 *is* a single player experience and they share assets with SC.
So, if you (and @MaxBacon ) say they added procedural planet tech/FOIP to SQ42 (since they share assets), I believe you, because I haven't been keeping up (as I said). However, after 5-6 years of development, I don't think adding procedural planet tech and FOIP would mean that they should only have an "early pre-alpha WIP pre-recorded tech demo" to show for it.
I do was expecting them to label SQ42 more advanced, but they seemed to have expanded stuff on what they want on it, procedural planets is one of them and it's the one now coming online in Alpha 3.0 in its first iteration. If they kept SQ42 the small linear game it was originally pitched then they wouldn't have need to wait and make use of new tech to use on it.
In the other hand it is understandable why when new tech and improvements come online that they want them on SQ42. I would say if they get to do things like DX12/Vulkan before SQ42 releases then I think they would want that upgrade on it as well, but they are sacrificing a lot in the time front to afford that.
Like players are going to get bored listening to scripted dialogue ,especially after the first time.
The script isn't completely linear. It is branched. talking to different people and providing different answers can provide different results, leads to different interactions leads to different missions, how missions go also can effect what branch of script you take next. Missions can be completed in various ways (and failed in various ways). This leaves a lot of replayability for SQ42.
I'm 100% willing to admit that I don't keep up with SQ42/SC as much as possible, simply because the torrent of information coming from CIG is usually too much to sift through for truly meaningful information. So, I will concede that perhaps SQ42 has the same scope as SC; however, I still don't think that after 5-6 years of development that the tech demo released is anything other than disappointing. At this point, I do feel they should be further along, especially considering that SQ42 *is* a single player experience and they share assets with SC.
So, if you (and @MaxBacon ) say they added procedural planet tech/FOIP to SQ42 (since they share assets), I believe you, because I haven't been keeping up (as I said). However, after 5-6 years of development, I don't think adding procedural planet tech and FOIP would mean that they should only have an "early pre-alpha WIP pre-recorded tech demo" to show for it.
I do was expecting them to label SQ42 more advanced, but they seemed to have expanded stuff on what they want on it, procedural planets is one of them and it's the one now coming online in Alpha 3.0 in its first iteration. If they kept SQ42 the small linear game it was originally pitched then they wouldn't have need to wait and make use of new tech to use on it.
In the other hand it is understandable why when new tech and improvements come online that they want them on SQ42. I would say if they get to do things like DX12/Vulkan before SQ42 releases then I think they would want that upgrade on it as well, but they are sacrificing a lot in the time front to afford that.
Thank you (honestly) for actually taking the time to provide a response in conversation rather than just trolling; it’s a lot more conducive to conversation. At the end of the day. I do think we’re both interested in seeing SC/SQ42 be a great game, and I think it’s fine to have healthy conversation and debate about how to go about that.
Here’s hoping that 2018 comes with a bit more substantial progress!
@Orinori you provided no logical or reasonable rebuttal to the previous poster's argument. You essentially responded with "but THE AMBITION!"
I commented how that does not affect the argument, and you doubled-down on "but THE AMBITION!" argument.
At that point, it was clear you're just trolling. I responded in kind. GG.
I said NOTHING about "but THE AMBITION!". I referred to scope increase and gold plating completely and logically rebutting the assertion that "He's either a habitual liar or so inept" as it introduces a third and factual option - shit changed.
Thanks for trolling though. I usually enjoy your conversations though so I will let this one slide!
@Orinori you provided no logical or reasonable rebuttal to the previous poster's argument. You essentially responded with "but THE AMBITION!"
I commented how that does not affect the argument, and you doubled-down on "but THE AMBITION!" argument.
At that point, it was clear you're just trolling. I responded in kind. GG.
I said NOTHING about "but THE AMBITION!". I referred to scope increase and gold plating completely and logically rebutting the assertion that "He's either a habitual liar or so inept" as it introduces a third and factual option - shit changed.
Thanks for trolling though. I usually enjoy your conversations though so I will let this one slide!
That argument is a catch-all. Didn't get your bill paid this month? I was going to, but shit changed and I don't have the money this month!
Did you get your follow-up calls done? I was working on them, then shit changed and I didn't complete them.
It doesn't argue anything specifically regarding the issue. Chris Roberts made those statements in an interview featured to the public. He has blown through those deadlines and is far, far away from releasing backers everything that was promised during the Kickstarter. Chris was in control of the decision to add everything under the same before release, he gets to take responsibility for making that decision, for better or worse.
Well this game is the most open development ever so how come we don't know what caused the delay? Is it because they are embarrassed at their continued incompetence and didn't want to say it?
I have no idea? perhaps it was because Chris Roberts was pulling 7 people from a flaming bus crash then proceeded to preform cardiopulmonary resuscitation and couldn't get to the studio in time. He is quite shy about these heroic things he often does in his spare time.
Wont even bother cause you couldn't even be bothered to try and defend what I said because you know you cant.
Ok it was pushed back 24 hours to not inconvienance their global audience (overlooking the fact that many booked the day off for this stream and CIG still didn't announce the delay until the stream was almost supposed to go live). And I can point out posts showing people did care but you'd probably ignore the evidence anyway.
Yes people cared about it at the time, they were disappointed. You however are the first person to mention it since being as it was only 24hrs, and no one really cares, like I said you only trying to use it as ammo against CR even though it may have nothing to do with him whatsoever, predictably boring. I can see it now
guy 1 "i'm not going to buy SC" guy 2 " :O why not!" guy 1 "the holiday live stream was delayed by 24hrs, i'm disgusted, I will never forgive and never forget!"
ok..........
Right so you lied when you made your original statement of anybody even cares about the delay. Well at least you can admit when you're wrong even though you're now trying to backtrack to save face, its still a step in the right direction.
I'll give you a C for effort but in the future can you at least try to debate instead of your usual?
My usual? ohhhh, you mean the bit were I point out ridiculous opinions and replace them with facts or reasonable logical assumptions instead of just hate based rhetoric. OK
So what in any of the original post where I started to respond to you or the replies since have there been facts or reasonable logical assumptions?
Lets summarize for those keeping track.
You mention evolving development, get asked what that has to do with the demo and then make some smartass remark. 0 for 1 facts or reasonable logical assumptions
You make a remark about guessing as to the reason for the delay for the livestream, I bring up something that's rooted in reality (their constant screw ups) and you fire back with CR trying to save people from a burning bus. 0 for 2 facts or reasonable logical assumptions
You say no one cared about the delay, I call you on it and then you backtrack and say yeah people did care about the delay but I'm using it as ammo. If you think me using facts is ammo then go talk to the most open dev project ever and tell them to stop screwing up. 0 for 3 facts or reasonable logical assumptions
And finally the bit where you defend your usual as you pointing out ridiculous opinions and replace them with facts or reasonable logical assumptions. Well considering you used the flaming bus as a example I'm going to deduct you another point so you're 0 for 4.
So mind telling me when you are going to start showing me these facts and reasonable logical assumptions because I'd rather be having a real debate then pointing out how badly you fail at trying to troll.
This game better be the most immersive thing ever because that was pretty boring. Maybe it's harder to watch than participate in this case.
I watched the whole hour through and nothing of note happened until the random dog fight which was almost 40 minutes in. Needs way better pacing IMO. The majority of what I saw was just flying around or "[Response Choice 1] / [Response Choice 2].
For the next unreasonable stretch goal they need to put a working streaming music player into the ships, or hell, hire artists and personalities to create a catalog of futuristic music and podcasts for people to listen to while they fly from location to location.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
So what i am seeing here is a ship to wander around but the game play will be simple head out and destroy some enemy ship ,rinse and repeat.
Did you even watch the whole thing? The bunny listed this one out pretty well, although he missed out and should have emphasized on the stealth play which there was a lot of:
"* Social interaction on the base ship * Pilot briefing * prep fighter * Launch (and here is a pilot that actually looks for the signs of the deck crew ;-) ) * patrol and recon * interaction with a salvager * Eliminating hostile fighter * Investigate debris field * S&R EVA * examine evidence * enter atmosphere * low altitude canyon stealth approach (liked that bit about turrets blasting high flyers out of the sky) * landing * gaining access (with some repair work) * Knifing FTW * firefights (neither side can hit a barn apparently ;-) or know how to clear a building) * Alien style crawlway hide-n-seek * prisoner rescue * getting an ally * preparing to clear the base ...."
'puzzle solving' sadly we didn't get to see the scanning gameplay while exploring the incredibly cool environment of the 'coil', all this in on a single slice of a military campaign story, what else was it you were hoping for?
@Orinori you provided no logical or reasonable rebuttal to the previous poster's argument. You essentially responded with "but THE AMBITION!"
I commented how that does not affect the argument, and you doubled-down on "but THE AMBITION!" argument.
At that point, it was clear you're just trolling. I responded in kind. GG.
I said NOTHING about "but THE AMBITION!". I referred to scope increase and gold plating completely and logically rebutting the assertion that "He's either a habitual liar or so inept" as it introduces a third and factual option - shit changed.
Thanks for trolling though. I usually enjoy your conversations though so I will let this one slide!
That argument is a catch-all. Didn't get your bill paid this month? I was going to, but shit changed and I don't have the money this month!
Did you get your follow-up calls done? I was working on them, then shit changed and I didn't complete them.
It doesn't argue anything specifically regarding the issue. Chris Roberts made those statements in an interview featured to the public. He has blown through those deadlines and is far, far away from releasing backers everything that was promised during the Kickstarter. Chris was in control of the decision to add everything under the same before release, he gets to take responsibility for making that decision, for better or worse.
And does that leave ""He's either a habitual liar or so inept" as the only options? No. Stop defending the indefensible, you are wasting your time.
@Orinori you provided no logical or reasonable rebuttal to the previous poster's argument. You essentially responded with "but THE AMBITION!"
I commented how that does not affect the argument, and you doubled-down on "but THE AMBITION!" argument.
At that point, it was clear you're just trolling. I responded in kind. GG.
I said NOTHING about "but THE AMBITION!". I referred to scope increase and gold plating completely and logically rebutting the assertion that "He's either a habitual liar or so inept" as it introduces a third and factual option - shit changed.
Thanks for trolling though. I usually enjoy your conversations though so I will let this one slide!
That argument is a catch-all. Didn't get your bill paid this month? I was going to, but shit changed and I don't have the money this month!
Did you get your follow-up calls done? I was working on them, then shit changed and I didn't complete them.
It doesn't argue anything specifically regarding the issue. Chris Roberts made those statements in an interview featured to the public. He has blown through those deadlines and is far, far away from releasing backers everything that was promised during the Kickstarter. Chris was in control of the decision to add everything under the same before release, he gets to take responsibility for making that decision, for better or worse.
And does that leave ""He's either a habitual liar or so inept" as the only options? No. Stop defending the indefensible, you are wasting your time.
I find him inept for his inability to control scope. That's why I don't feel scope changing absolves him of those statements. Roberts is notorious for scope creep, even before this endeavor.
He had a plan, he decided to switch horses mid-stream multiple times, so here he is with his own words haunting him. Fair's fair.
You mention evolving development, get asked what that has to do with the demo and then make some smartass remark. 0 for 1 facts or reasonable logical assumptions
It was not a 'smartass remark'. It was factual and I implored you to try to keep up with the thread. Most people would usually take that opportunity to go and reread the relevant parts to see if they were mistaken. Instead you seemed to have continued to follow through!
"I bring up something that's rooted in reality" - you made wishful thoughts and guesses to continue your narrative 'must bash Chris Roberts'. I simply mirrored your thoughts and made my own wishful thoughts and guesses.
"You say no one cared about the delay," - they don't. Try to understand past and present tense.
You don't seem to like it when I point out your entire post is nothing but Chris Roberts bashing.
@Orinori you provided no logical or reasonable rebuttal to the previous poster's argument. You essentially responded with "but THE AMBITION!"
I commented how that does not affect the argument, and you doubled-down on "but THE AMBITION!" argument.
At that point, it was clear you're just trolling. I responded in kind. GG.
I said NOTHING about "but THE AMBITION!". I referred to scope increase and gold plating completely and logically rebutting the assertion that "He's either a habitual liar or so inept" as it introduces a third and factual option - shit changed.
Thanks for trolling though. I usually enjoy your conversations though so I will let this one slide!
That argument is a catch-all. Didn't get your bill paid this month? I was going to, but shit changed and I don't have the money this month!
Did you get your follow-up calls done? I was working on them, then shit changed and I didn't complete them.
It doesn't argue anything specifically regarding the issue. Chris Roberts made those statements in an interview featured to the public. He has blown through those deadlines and is far, far away from releasing backers everything that was promised during the Kickstarter. Chris was in control of the decision to add everything under the same before release, he gets to take responsibility for making that decision, for better or worse.
And does that leave ""He's either a habitual liar or so inept" as the only options? No. Stop defending the indefensible, you are wasting your time.
I find him inept for his inability to control scope. That's why I don't feel scope changing absolves him of those statements. Roberts is notorious for scope creep, even before this endeavor.
He had a plan, he decided to switch horses mid-stream multiple times, so here he is with his own words haunting him. Fair's fair.
How can it possibly be considered inept to raise multiple millions and use those figures with backers permission to increase scope purposefully and with intent? This shows the exact opposite of being inept!
@Orinori you provided no logical or reasonable rebuttal to the previous poster's argument. You essentially responded with "but THE AMBITION!"
I commented how that does not affect the argument, and you doubled-down on "but THE AMBITION!" argument.
At that point, it was clear you're just trolling. I responded in kind. GG.
I said NOTHING about "but THE AMBITION!". I referred to scope increase and gold plating completely and logically rebutting the assertion that "He's either a habitual liar or so inept" as it introduces a third and factual option - shit changed.
Thanks for trolling though. I usually enjoy your conversations though so I will let this one slide!
That argument is a catch-all. Didn't get your bill paid this month? I was going to, but shit changed and I don't have the money this month!
Did you get your follow-up calls done? I was working on them, then shit changed and I didn't complete them.
It doesn't argue anything specifically regarding the issue. Chris Roberts made those statements in an interview featured to the public. He has blown through those deadlines and is far, far away from releasing backers everything that was promised during the Kickstarter. Chris was in control of the decision to add everything under the same before release, he gets to take responsibility for making that decision, for better or worse.
And does that leave ""He's either a habitual liar or so inept" as the only options? No. Stop defending the indefensible, you are wasting your time.
I find him inept for his inability to control scope. That's why I don't feel scope changing absolves him of those statements. Roberts is notorious for scope creep, even before this endeavor.
He had a plan, he decided to switch horses mid-stream multiple times, so here he is with his own words haunting him. Fair's fair.
How can it possibly be considered inept to raise multiple millions and use those figures with backers permission to increase scope purposefully and with intent? This shows the exact opposite of being inept!
He hasn't released the product yet, skipper. It's far from being finished.
He's shown himself adept at hyping. When I see the finished product, I can reassess his aptitude for project management. Maybe he'll impress everyone and we'll all agree it was worth it to miss self-imposed deadlines over and over and over. But he hasn't proven that yet, no matter how many backers try to insist SC is already the most ground-breaking thing since 3D graphics.
@Orinori you provided no logical or reasonable rebuttal to the previous poster's argument. You essentially responded with "but THE AMBITION!"
I commented how that does not affect the argument, and you doubled-down on "but THE AMBITION!" argument.
At that point, it was clear you're just trolling. I responded in kind. GG.
I said NOTHING about "but THE AMBITION!". I referred to scope increase and gold plating completely and logically rebutting the assertion that "He's either a habitual liar or so inept" as it introduces a third and factual option - shit changed.
Thanks for trolling though. I usually enjoy your conversations though so I will let this one slide!
That argument is a catch-all. Didn't get your bill paid this month? I was going to, but shit changed and I don't have the money this month!
Did you get your follow-up calls done? I was working on them, then shit changed and I didn't complete them.
It doesn't argue anything specifically regarding the issue. Chris Roberts made those statements in an interview featured to the public. He has blown through those deadlines and is far, far away from releasing backers everything that was promised during the Kickstarter. Chris was in control of the decision to add everything under the same before release, he gets to take responsibility for making that decision, for better or worse.
And does that leave ""He's either a habitual liar or so inept" as the only options? No. Stop defending the indefensible, you are wasting your time.
I find him inept for his inability to control scope. That's why I don't feel scope changing absolves him of those statements. Roberts is notorious for scope creep, even before this endeavor.
He had a plan, he decided to switch horses mid-stream multiple times, so here he is with his own words haunting him. Fair's fair.
How can it possibly be considered inept to raise multiple millions and use those figures with backers permission to increase scope purposefully and with intent? This shows the exact opposite of being inept!
He hasn't released the product yet, skipper. It's far from being finished.
He's shown himself adept at hyping. When I see the finished product, I can reassess his aptitude for project management. Maybe he'll impress everyone and we'll all agree it was worth it to miss self-imposed deadlines over and over and over. But he hasn't proven that yet, no matter how done backers try to insist SC is already the most ground-breaking thing since 3D graphics.
Lol, fair enough, will continue on release day even though I believe there is enough evidence on display to at least make a case that it shows signs and great potential for being worth it "no matter how done backers try to insist SC is already the most ground-breaking thing since 3D graphics", because I have never seen anything like it, although it isn't all stitched together yet....but you know I have the faith!
You mention evolving development, get asked what that has to do with the demo and then make some smartass remark. 0 for 1 facts or reasonable logical assumptions
It was not a 'smartass remark'. It was factual and I implored you to try to keep up with the thread, you seem unable to follow threads in a forum. Most people would usually take that opportunity to go and reread the relevant parts to see if they were mistaken. Instead you seemed to have continued to follow through!
"I bring up something that's rooted in reality" - you made wishful thoughts and guesses to continue your narrative 'must bash Chris Roberts'. I simply mirrored your thoughts and made my own wishful thoughts and guesses.
"You say no one cared about the delay," - they don't. Try to understand past and present tense.
You don't seem to like it when I point out your entire post is nothing but Chris Roberts bashing.
175 million!
And back to the poorly constructed arguments and shifting blame. And here I thought you were making a breakthrough when you admitted you lied but then you fell back into old habits
You mention evolving development, get asked what that has to do with the demo and then make some smartass remark. 0 for 1 facts or reasonable logical assumptions
It was not a 'smartass remark'. It was factual and I implored you to try to keep up with the thread, you seem unable to follow threads in a forum. Most people would usually take that opportunity to go and reread the relevant parts to see if they were mistaken. Instead you seemed to have continued to follow through!
"I bring up something that's rooted in reality" - you made wishful thoughts and guesses to continue your narrative 'must bash Chris Roberts'. I simply mirrored your thoughts and made my own wishful thoughts and guesses.
"You say no one cared about the delay," - they don't. Try to understand past and present tense.
You don't seem to like it when I point out your entire post is nothing but Chris Roberts bashing.
175 million!
And back to the poorly constructed arguments and shifting blame. And here I thought you were making a breakthrough when you admitted you lied but then you fell back into old habits
Arguments you seem to be unable to counter, you seem to only have personal attacks and fanciful thoughts? What you perceive as admittance of a lie was actually the continued correction of your errors.
You mention evolving development, get asked what that has to do with the demo and then make some smartass remark. 0 for 1 facts or reasonable logical assumptions
It was not a 'smartass remark'. It was factual and I implored you to try to keep up with the thread, you seem unable to follow threads in a forum. Most people would usually take that opportunity to go and reread the relevant parts to see if they were mistaken. Instead you seemed to have continued to follow through!
"I bring up something that's rooted in reality" - you made wishful thoughts and guesses to continue your narrative 'must bash Chris Roberts'. I simply mirrored your thoughts and made my own wishful thoughts and guesses.
"You say no one cared about the delay," - they don't. Try to understand past and present tense.
You don't seem to like it when I point out your entire post is nothing but Chris Roberts bashing.
175 million!
And back to the poorly constructed arguments and shifting blame. And here I thought you were making a breakthrough when you admitted you lied but then you fell back into old habits
Arguments you seem to be unable to counter, you seem to only have personal attacks and fanciful thoughts? What you perceive as admittance of a lie was actually the continued correction of your errors.
When you actually post something I can counter I'd love to counter it but so far you haven't really posted anything that I didn't already take apart in my longer post
When you actually post something I can counter I'd love to counter it but so far you haven't really posted anything that I didn't already take apart in my longer post
Already rebutted all that nonsense. try again.
However, thanks for admitting that all you post are personal attacks and fanciful thoughts.
Like players are going to get bored listening to scripted dialogue ,especially after the first time.
The script isn't completely linear. It is branched. talking to different people and providing different answers can provide different results, leads to different interactions leads to different missions, how missions go also can effect what branch of script you take next. Missions can be completed in various ways (and failed in various ways). This leaves a lot of replayability for SQ42.
Yes i fully understand it,i saw the dimly lighted choices,similar to SWTOR really.However are players going to do as usual and race from one to the next in a linear pattern or are they going to sit and click each npc to see the 3-4 different responses.\
Don't get me wrong,i see some positives here,some immersion YES,better than MANY games that have NONE,i see the multiple choices in dialogue but at the end of the day i look past that to how i woudl actually feel in that game/world,like would i get bored of that similar dialogue progression or not,well i got tired of it in SWTOR.
I guess i sound liek a hypocrite,i always want immersion and i said i see some there,however my heart lies in the entire body of the game,crafting and earning my way through the world in a non linear fashion.I like deep class and deep combat designs,this game's combat will be more learn the load outs "similar to gear" and physics in space.
I have said many times before,i can play and enjoy ANY genre if done well but i just don't see trhis matching the depth or overall class/combat structure that a Fantasy mmorpg offers and i don't see the longevity in the design past pvp.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
When you actually post something I can counter I'd love to counter it but so far you haven't really posted anything that I didn't already take apart in my longer post
Already rebutted all that nonsense. try again.
However, thanks for admitting that all you post are personal attacks and fanciful thoughts.
You really didn't but whatever works in your head. And please show me where I admitted that?
Comments
Like players are going to get bored listening to scripted dialogue ,especially after the first time.
So what i am seeing here is a ship to wander around but the game play will be simple head out and destroy some enemy ship ,rinse and repeat.
Space is a very boring type of zone to hangout in,even if your all giddy about your ship.
Just like i said about Eve,if all i am doing is hanging out in a cockpit 90% of the game only to come back and get some quest,i would get bored very quickly.
Bottom line,what they are showing looks good for what it is ,as a game and longevity and feeling like a world,how long will that last,will it even be fun as watching these dialogues seemed kinda boring to me.
I also saw no interaction on the ship aside from dude sort of putting on his shirt after getting out of bed.
Does it look immersive what they showed us here,yeah kind of but not so exciting the immersion but least there is that feeling.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have no idea? perhaps it was because Chris Roberts was pulling 7 people from a flaming bus crash then proceeded to preform cardiopulmonary resuscitation and couldn't get to the studio in time. He is quite shy about these heroic things he often does in his spare time.
Yes people cared about it at the time, they were disappointed. You however are the first person to mention it since being as it was only 24hrs, and no one really cares, like I said you only trying to use it as ammo against CR even though it may have nothing to do with him whatsoever, predictably boring. I can see it now
guy 1 "i'm not going to buy SC"
guy 2 " :O why not!"
guy 1 "the holiday live stream was delayed by 24hrs, i'm disgusted, I will never forgive and never forget!"
ok..........
My usual? ohhhh, you mean the bit were I point out ridiculous opinions and replace them with facts or reasonable logical assumptions instead of just hate based rhetoric. OK
"Oh, you're no longer even making reasonable posts, you've gone full on troll."
interesting that this is what I thought about your post previous to this. I made perfectly reasonable observations and have been met with nothing but trolling and flame baiting. But sure....its me!
In the other hand it is understandable why when new tech and improvements come online that they want them on SQ42. I would say if they get to do things like DX12/Vulkan before SQ42 releases then I think they would want that upgrade on it as well, but they are sacrificing a lot in the time front to afford that.
I commented how that does not affect the argument, and you doubled-down on "but THE AMBITION!" argument.
At that point, it was clear you're just trolling. I responded in kind. GG.
Here’s hoping that 2018 comes with a bit more substantial progress!
Thanks for trolling though. I usually enjoy your conversations though so I will let this one slide!
Did you get your follow-up calls done? I was working on them, then shit changed and I didn't complete them.
It doesn't argue anything specifically regarding the issue. Chris Roberts made those statements in an interview featured to the public. He has blown through those deadlines and is far, far away from releasing backers everything that was promised during the Kickstarter. Chris was in control of the decision to add everything under the same before release, he gets to take responsibility for making that decision, for better or worse.
Right so your usual of posting something unrelated and when called out on it you tell someone else to try and keep up. Gotcha.
Wont even bother cause you couldn't even be bothered to try and defend what I said because you know you cant.
Right so you lied when you made your original statement of anybody even cares about the delay. Well at least you can admit when you're wrong even though you're now trying to backtrack to save face, its still a step in the right direction.
So what in any of the original post where I started to respond to you or the replies since have there been facts or reasonable logical assumptions?
Lets summarize for those keeping track.
You mention evolving development, get asked what that has to do with the demo and then make some smartass remark. 0 for 1 facts or reasonable logical assumptions
You make a remark about guessing as to the reason for the delay for the livestream, I bring up something that's rooted in reality (their constant screw ups) and you fire back with CR trying to save people from a burning bus. 0 for 2 facts or reasonable logical assumptions
You say no one cared about the delay, I call you on it and then you backtrack and say yeah people did care about the delay but I'm using it as ammo. If you think me using facts is ammo then go talk to the most open dev project ever and tell them to stop screwing up. 0 for 3 facts or reasonable logical assumptions
And finally the bit where you defend your usual as you pointing out ridiculous opinions and replace them with facts or reasonable logical assumptions. Well considering you used the flaming bus as a example I'm going to deduct you another point so you're 0 for 4.
So mind telling me when you are going to start showing me these facts and reasonable logical assumptions because I'd rather be having a real debate then pointing out how badly you fail at trying to troll.
I watched the whole hour through and nothing of note happened until the random dog fight which was almost 40 minutes in. Needs way better pacing IMO. The majority of what I saw was just flying around or "[Response Choice 1] / [Response Choice 2].
For the next unreasonable stretch goal they need to put a working streaming music player into the ships, or hell, hire artists and personalities to create a catalog of futuristic music and podcasts for people to listen to while they fly from location to location.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"* Social interaction on the base ship
* Pilot briefing
* prep fighter
* Launch (and here is a pilot that actually looks for the signs of the deck crew ;-) )
* patrol and recon
* interaction with a salvager
* Eliminating hostile fighter
* Investigate debris field
* S&R EVA
* examine evidence
* enter atmosphere
* low altitude canyon stealth approach (liked that bit about turrets blasting high flyers out of the sky)
* landing
* gaining access (with some repair work)
* Knifing FTW
* firefights (neither side can hit a barn apparently ;-) or know how to clear a building)
* Alien style crawlway hide-n-seek
* prisoner rescue
* getting an ally
* preparing to clear the base ...."
'puzzle solving'
sadly we didn't get to see the scanning gameplay while exploring the incredibly cool environment of the 'coil', all this in on a single slice of a military campaign story, what else was it you were hoping for?
He had a plan, he decided to switch horses mid-stream multiple times, so here he is with his own words haunting him. Fair's fair.
"I bring up something that's rooted in reality" - you made wishful thoughts and guesses to continue your narrative 'must bash Chris Roberts'. I simply mirrored your thoughts and made my own wishful thoughts and guesses.
"You say no one cared about the delay," - they don't. Try to understand past and present tense.
You don't seem to like it when I point out your entire post is nothing but Chris Roberts bashing.
175 million!
He's shown himself adept at hyping. When I see the finished product, I can reassess his aptitude for project management. Maybe he'll impress everyone and we'll all agree it was worth it to miss self-imposed deadlines over and over and over. But he hasn't proven that yet, no matter how many backers try to insist SC is already the most ground-breaking thing since 3D graphics.
Arguments you seem to be unable to counter, you seem to only have personal attacks and fanciful thoughts? What you perceive as admittance of a lie was actually the continued correction of your errors.
However, thanks for admitting that all you post are personal attacks and fanciful thoughts.
Don't get me wrong,i see some positives here,some immersion YES,better than MANY games that have NONE,i see the multiple choices in dialogue but at the end of the day i look past that to how i woudl actually feel in that game/world,like would i get bored of that similar dialogue progression or not,well i got tired of it in SWTOR.
I guess i sound liek a hypocrite,i always want immersion and i said i see some there,however my heart lies in the entire body of the game,crafting and earning my way through the world in a non linear fashion.I like deep class and deep combat designs,this game's combat will be more learn the load outs "similar to gear" and physics in space.
I have said many times before,i can play and enjoy ANY genre if done well but i just don't see trhis matching the depth or overall class/combat structure that a Fantasy mmorpg offers and i don't see the longevity in the design past pvp.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.