But again... while I don’t like lootboxes... as long as they are being honest now and people know what they are getting into that’s fine. They still need to update their website but admitting the mechanic was a big step.
We can argue about whether lootboxes are good or bad until the cows come home. At least people now acknowledge the mechanic.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Actually, since Soul Packs are not available for sale yet, they don't need to do anything. As for admitting the mechanic, it was never a secret and has been talked about several times in the past.
A simple question. Soul Packs contain 3 souls and are themed. How many people are going to want to have 3 alts of the same 'nature' -- warrior, thief, alchemist, etc.? Wouldn't more variety be more alluring to customers, and more aligned to the way most players will play?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
A simple question. Soul Packs contain 3 souls and are themed. How many people are going to want to have 3 alts of the same 'nature' -- warrior, thief, alchemist, etc.? Wouldn't more variety be more alluring to customers, and more aligned to the way most players will play?
A valid point!
What I think the reason may be is because with your game purchase you get 3 souls. And we don't know at this point how those three are decided. If it's three souls at random and all the ones I get are for example "warriors". Then it would stand to reason that I'd want to buy a soul pack with the "Crafter" theme if I was wanting to create a Crafter.
And this is where it's all speculation. There just isn't really enough information about what you start with and what the packs contain....yet. And that's probably because the devs would rather test out the game, the mechanics, find the bugs and then from there be in a better position to say "This is how we'll handle the starting souls and packs"
In my example of a Crafter theme it's pure speculation. Because although we know there are themes, we don't know what those themes are.
I'm still in the wait and see crowd before I call foul on how they handle them. I will say though I like the idea of themed packs at least vs 3 random souls. Old or young, at least you are getting the types of character you're looking for
Not at all. This is the essence of lootboxes. Even in Fortnite you could buy “Weapon Llamas”. Sure I get a weapon every time, but it could be a sword, a handgun, a machine gun....
You like that random chance... go for it. As long as they admit what they are doing and give you the information to gamble on the result that’s great.
You are mistaking a game of chance with a 'lootbox' and gambling, and they are not remotely the same thing.
Case in point, CCG's. MtG was a big thing, and many players bought Booster Packs. Now, every single booster pack contained 10 common, 3 uncommon and 1 Rare card.
I not a gamble as you will always get that outcome, you will never walk away with nothing, so there is no risk involved.
While It is a game of chance, it is not a gamble. Now you like me, do not like RNG games, but that does not make evil, or bad, it simply makes them something we don't like.
Now, you may not like what you got, that is a risk, but it is not a fiscal risk, it is a personal preference risk. IE: You may want to build a Green deck and all the rare cards you got were black.
It happens, but, you still walk away with your value in cards even if they are not the cards you want, or have no value to you personally, that does not change the actual value of the cards themselves, you got exactly what you paid for and under no situation did you get slighted, cheated, or shorted in any way.
Case in point, I work in construction, so I drive a truck and use it for work, as such, I place no value on cars, and even lower value on sporty cars. Now, just because I don't value a sports car, does not mean the sports car itself is devalued or worth less in any means.
With all that said.
NO..
This is not some random candy in a package, you will get 3 souls every single time you Soul Pack (or that is what is the statement right now), at the very least, 3 souls is worth 10 dollars, as that is what people need to pay for them. So you always get your chocolate bar, even if you don't want it, or like it.. you still get the chocolate bar, because that is what you paid for.
With souls, you are buying 3 souls for 10 dollars. That is their resale value, and the price the seller is asking. If that is not a price you want to pay, don't buy it.
If you will settle for nothing less then an Old Soul or Unique Soul, and everything else is worthless to you, that does not change the market value of 3 souls is 10 dollars.
That does not change that you are not buying an Old Soul or a Unique Soul, you are buying a Pack of 3 Souls (with the promise of nothing more then 3 generic fresh start souls). If that does not work for you, don't buy it.
If RNG is something you don't like, then don't play into the system. That is how I roll, as I do not like RNG games like this either.
But again, that does not change you are getting your value, that this is not a loot box, and this is no a gamble.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
A simple question. Soul Packs contain 3 souls and are themed. How many people are going to want to have 3 alts of the same 'nature' -- warrior, thief, alchemist, etc.? Wouldn't more variety be more alluring to customers, and more aligned to the way most players will play?
My understanding is that the basic Souls is Blank, you can make it into anything you want, any way you want, and is shaped by your actions in game.
You can buy Themed Packs, like Crafts-person, Noble, but they are not the Soul, they are like a Boon to your Soul, IE: an Add On, if you want a jump start into that, but you can also just learn a trade in game as well.
The big thing here is Old Souls or Unique Souls, that people are all uppity about, those come with abilities and traits linked to them they will just be better at. But those traits are random, and now everyone is all obsessed about needing to buy into the game to get their unique soul, because, you know.. they have needs.
Lucky for me.. I have no such needs.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Not at all. This is the essence of lootboxes. Even in Fortnite you could buy “Weapon Llamas”. Sure I get a weapon every time, but it could be a sword, a handgun, a machine gun....
You like that random chance... go for it. As long as they admit what they are doing and give you the information to gamble on the result that’s great.
You are mistaking a game of chance with a 'lootbox' and gambling, and they are not remotely the same thing.
Case in point, CCG's. MtG was a big thing, and many players bought Booster Packs. Now, every single booster pack contained 10 common, 3 uncommon and 1 Rare card.
I not a gamble as you will always get that outcome, you will never walk away with nothing, so there is no risk involved.
While It is a game of chance, it is not a gamble. Now you like me, do not like RNG games, but that does not make evil, or bad, it simply makes them something we don't like.
Now, you may not like what you got, that is a risk, but it is not a fiscal risk, it is a personal preference risk. IE: You may want to build a Green deck and all the rare cards you got were black.
It happens, but, you still walk away with your value in cards even if they are not the cards you want, or have no value to you personally, that does not change the actual value of the cards themselves, you got exactly what you paid for and under no situation did you get slighted, cheated, or shorted in any way.
Case in point, I work in construction, so I drive a truck and use it for work, as such, I place no value on cars, and even lower value on sporty cars. Now, just because I don't value a sports car, does not mean the sports car itself is devalued or worth less in any means.
With all that said.
NO..
This is not some random candy in a package, you will get 3 souls every single time you Soul Pack (or that is what is the statement right now), at the very least, 3 souls is worth 10 dollars, as that is what people need to pay for them. So you always get your chocolate bar, even if you don't want it, or like it.. you still get the chocolate bar, because that is what you paid for.
With souls, you are buying 3 souls for 10 dollars. That is their resale value, and the price the seller is asking. If that is not a price you want to pay, don't buy it.
If you will settle for nothing less then an Old Soul or Unique Soul, and everything else is worthless to you, that does not change the market value of 3 souls is 10 dollars.
That does not change that you are not buying an Old Soul or a Unique Soul, you are buying a Pack of 3 Souls (with the promise of nothing more then 3 generic fresh start souls). If that does not work for you, don't buy it.
If RNG is something you don't like, then don't play into the system. That is how I roll, as I do not like RNG games like this either.
But again, that does not change you are getting your value, that this is not a loot box, and this is no a gamble.
Not going to argue if they are good or bad.
Just needed to get them to admit the mechanic which we have succeeded. So hopefully no more PR spin posts about how they turned down publishers because they wanted them to implement evil lootboxes.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Actually, since Soul Packs are not available for sale yet, they don't need to do anything.
Yet they ARE slated to be part of the game. Why hide it?
Isn't it all about allowing people to make informed decisions?
If your Business Model says X and then at launch it's X + Y and you have known it would be X + Y for years that would not be cool.
In all fairness, the business model should never be set in stone. One mistake many indie/ Kickstarter devs do is promise a certain payment model that may not be sustainable by the time the game actually launches, which as we're now seeing, can easily be 5 or more years down the road.
With Camelot Unchain MJ promised subscriptions only, and he'd rather see the game go under than add a cash shop. Would have been better to say he'll start with a sub model and see if it can sustain itself. Should it fail to he could have outlined the next few alternatives, perhaps adding a cosmetic only cash shop or what not.
Caspian has made the same mistake, never going to charge a sub, never going to sell anything which provides an advantage post launch outside of soul pack and sparks, just no good reason to limit the company / game like that when it likely won't launch until 2022 or so.
Even now this entire thread is because he said he turned down investors who wanted him to add lootboxes or other monetization methods, which I can perfectly understand the investors viewpoint.
I feel SWTOR, TSW, ESO, BDO, LOTRO and even ArcheAge are great modern examples (but there many more) of monetization models evolving over time. In the case of SWTOR, LOTRO, and TSW they were more forced changes due to the surge in F2P/cash shop model largely catching the devs by surprise.
It was pretty clear ESO and BDO in particular had really thought through the evolution of the monetization model, and walked through it in careful steps which maximized the amount of money they extracted from every tier of customer and during lifecycle of their games.
A proactive approach towards long term monetization is required for a game to survive over the long term. Very doubtful any game which lives 5, 10, or 20 years will be able to stick with only one monetization model, in fact I'm unaware of any MMORPG currently in business that has managed to do so, all have evolved/changed in some manner.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not at all. This is the essence of lootboxes. Even in Fortnite you could buy “Weapon Llamas”. Sure I get a weapon every time, but it could be a sword, a handgun, a machine gun....
You like that random chance... go for it. As long as they admit what they are doing and give you the information to gamble on the result that’s great.
You are mistaking a game of chance with a 'lootbox' and gambling, and they are not remotely the same thing.
Case in point, CCG's. MtG was a big thing, and many players bought Booster Packs. Now, every single booster pack contained 10 common, 3 uncommon and 1 Rare card.
I not a gamble as you will always get that outcome, you will never walk away with nothing, so there is no risk involved.
While It is a game of chance, it is not a gamble. Now you like me, do not like RNG games, but that does not make evil, or bad, it simply makes them something we don't like.
Now, you may not like what you got, that is a risk, but it is not a fiscal risk, it is a personal preference risk. IE: You may want to build a Green deck and all the rare cards you got were black.
It happens, but, you still walk away with your value in cards even if they are not the cards you want, or have no value to you personally, that does not change the actual value of the cards themselves, you got exactly what you paid for and under no situation did you get slighted, cheated, or shorted in any way.
Case in point, I work in construction, so I drive a truck and use it for work, as such, I place no value on cars, and even lower value on sporty cars. Now, just because I don't value a sports car, does not mean the sports car itself is devalued or worth less in any means.
With all that said.
NO..
This is not some random candy in a package, you will get 3 souls every single time you Soul Pack (or that is what is the statement right now), at the very least, 3 souls is worth 10 dollars, as that is what people need to pay for them. So you always get your chocolate bar, even if you don't want it, or like it.. you still get the chocolate bar, because that is what you paid for.
With souls, you are buying 3 souls for 10 dollars. That is their resale value, and the price the seller is asking. If that is not a price you want to pay, don't buy it.
If you will settle for nothing less then an Old Soul or Unique Soul, and everything else is worthless to you, that does not change the market value of 3 souls is 10 dollars.
That does not change that you are not buying an Old Soul or a Unique Soul, you are buying a Pack of 3 Souls (with the promise of nothing more then 3 generic fresh start souls). If that does not work for you, don't buy it.
If RNG is something you don't like, then don't play into the system. That is how I roll, as I do not like RNG games like this either.
But again, that does not change you are getting your value, that this is not a loot box, and this is no a gamble.
Not going to argue if they are good or bad.
Just needed to get them to admit the mechanic which we have succeeded. So hopefully no more PR spin posts about how they turned down publishers because they wanted them to implement evil lootboxes.
It's not a "lootbox" or do think think every RNG item is a "Lootbox" if so, then just like the watered down BS that has Become P2W, we can expect "Lootbox" to mean jack shit soon to.
It's an RNG game, and one that you can't even fail at. Hell it's better then most RNG mechanics I have seen in a games.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
With souls, you are buying 3 souls for 10 dollars. That is their resale value, and the price the seller is asking. If that is not a price you want to pay, don't buy it.
If you will settle for nothing less then an Old Soul or Unique Soul, and everything else is worthless to you, that does not change the market value of 3 souls is 10 dollars.
That does not change that you are not buying an Old Soul or a Unique Soul, you are buying a Pack of 3 Souls (with the promise of nothing more then 3 generic fresh start souls). If that does not work for you, don't buy it.
If RNG is something you don't like, then don't play into the system. That is how I roll, as I do not like RNG games like this either.
But again, that does not change you are getting your value, that this is not a loot box, and this is no a gamble.
False.
If the value of a pack that contains 3 souls of random type is 10 dollars, then the value of 3 normal souls is less than 10 dollars and the value of packs with Old Soul or Unique soul is more than 10 dollars.
You're not paying the real value of the souls in the pack, you're gambling.
Actually, since Soul Packs are not available for sale yet, they don't need to do anything.
Yet they ARE slated to be part of the game. Why hide it?
Isn't it all about allowing people to make informed decisions?
If your Business Model says X and then at launch it's X + Y and you have known it would be X + Y for years that would not be cool.
In all fairness, the business model should never be set in stone. One mistake many indie/ Kickstarter devs do is promise a certain payment model that may not be sustainable by the time the game actually launches, which as we're now seeing, can easily be 5 or more years down the road.
With Camelot Unchain MJ promised subscriptions only, and he'd rather see the game go under than add a cash shop. Would have been better to say he'll start with a sub model and see if it can sustain itself. Should it fail to he could have outlined the next few alternatives, perhaps adding a cosmetic only cash shop or what not.
Caspian has made the same mistake, never going to charge a sub, never going to sell anything which provides an advantage post launch outside of soul pack and sparks, just no good reason to limit the company / game like that when it likely won't launch until 2022 or so.
Even now this entire thread is because he said he turned down investors who wanted him to add lootboxes or other monetization methods, which I can perfectly understand the investors viewpoint.
I feel SWTOR, TSW, ESO, BDO, LOTRO and even ArcheAge are great modern examples (but there many more) of monetization models evolving over time. In the case of SWTOR, LOTRO, and TSW they were more forced changes due to the surge in F2P/cash shop model largely catching the devs by surprise.
It was pretty clear ESO and BDO in particular had really thought through the evolution of the monetization model, and walked through it in careful steps which maximized the amount of money they extracted from every tier of customer and during lifecycle of their games.
A proactive approach towards long term monetization is required for a game to survive over the long term. Very doubtful any game which lives 5, 10, or 20 years will be able to stick with only one monetization model, in fact I'm unaware of any MMORPG currently in business that has managed to do so, all have evolved/changed in some manner.
Which is why I said:
If your Business Model says X and then at launch it's X + Y and you have known it would be X + Y for years that would not be cool.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Not at all. This is the essence of lootboxes. Even in Fortnite you could buy “Weapon Llamas”. Sure I get a weapon every time, but it could be a sword, a handgun, a machine gun....
You like that random chance... go for it. As long as they admit what they are doing and give you the information to gamble on the result that’s great.
You are mistaking a game of chance with a 'lootbox' and gambling, and they are not remotely the same thing.
Case in point, CCG's. MtG was a big thing, and many players bought Booster Packs. Now, every single booster pack contained 10 common, 3 uncommon and 1 Rare card.
I not a gamble as you will always get that outcome, you will never walk away with nothing, so there is no risk involved.
While It is a game of chance, it is not a gamble. Now you like me, do not like RNG games, but that does not make evil, or bad, it simply makes them something we don't like.
Now, you may not like what you got, that is a risk, but it is not a fiscal risk, it is a personal preference risk. IE: You may want to build a Green deck and all the rare cards you got were black.
It happens, but, you still walk away with your value in cards even if they are not the cards you want, or have no value to you personally, that does not change the actual value of the cards themselves, you got exactly what you paid for and under no situation did you get slighted, cheated, or shorted in any way.
Case in point, I work in construction, so I drive a truck and use it for work, as such, I place no value on cars, and even lower value on sporty cars. Now, just because I don't value a sports car, does not mean the sports car itself is devalued or worth less in any means.
With all that said.
NO..
This is not some random candy in a package, you will get 3 souls every single time you Soul Pack (or that is what is the statement right now), at the very least, 3 souls is worth 10 dollars, as that is what people need to pay for them. So you always get your chocolate bar, even if you don't want it, or like it.. you still get the chocolate bar, because that is what you paid for.
With souls, you are buying 3 souls for 10 dollars. That is their resale value, and the price the seller is asking. If that is not a price you want to pay, don't buy it.
If you will settle for nothing less then an Old Soul or Unique Soul, and everything else is worthless to you, that does not change the market value of 3 souls is 10 dollars.
That does not change that you are not buying an Old Soul or a Unique Soul, you are buying a Pack of 3 Souls (with the promise of nothing more then 3 generic fresh start souls). If that does not work for you, don't buy it.
If RNG is something you don't like, then don't play into the system. That is how I roll, as I do not like RNG games like this either.
But again, that does not change you are getting your value, that this is not a loot box, and this is no a gamble.
Not going to argue if they are good or bad.
Just needed to get them to admit the mechanic which we have succeeded. So hopefully no more PR spin posts about how they turned down publishers because they wanted them to implement evil lootboxes.
It's not a "lootbox" or do think think every RNG item is a "Lootbox" if so, then just like the watered down BS that has Become P2W, we can expect "Lootbox" to mean jack shit soon to.
It's an RNG game, and one that you can't even fail at. Hell it's better then most RNG mechanics I have seen in a games.
And it differs from buying a "WeaponLlama" in Fortnite how?
Buy a Llama.. get a few random weapons. Buy a SoulPack get a few random Souls.
You can say there are MORE lootboxes in Fortnite. And I would agree. But it's the same mechanic behind it. Whether it's Souls, or Weapons, or Skins... is irrelevant.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Not at all. This is the essence of lootboxes. Even in Fortnite you could buy “Weapon Llamas”. Sure I get a weapon every time, but it could be a sword, a handgun, a machine gun....
You like that random chance... go for it. As long as they admit what they are doing and give you the information to gamble on the result that’s great.
You are mistaking a game of chance with a 'lootbox' and gambling, and they are not remotely the same thing.
Case in point, CCG's. MtG was a big thing, and many players bought Booster Packs. Now, every single booster pack contained 10 common, 3 uncommon and 1 Rare card.
I not a gamble as you will always get that outcome, you will never walk away with nothing, so there is no risk involved.
While It is a game of chance, it is not a gamble. Now you like me, do not like RNG games, but that does not make evil, or bad, it simply makes them something we don't like.
Now, you may not like what you got, that is a risk, but it is not a fiscal risk, it is a personal preference risk. IE: You may want to build a Green deck and all the rare cards you got were black.
It happens, but, you still walk away with your value in cards even if they are not the cards you want, or have no value to you personally, that does not change the actual value of the cards themselves, you got exactly what you paid for and under no situation did you get slighted, cheated, or shorted in any way.
Case in point, I work in construction, so I drive a truck and use it for work, as such, I place no value on cars, and even lower value on sporty cars. Now, just because I don't value a sports car, does not mean the sports car itself is devalued or worth less in any means.
With all that said.
NO..
This is not some random candy in a package, you will get 3 souls every single time you Soul Pack (or that is what is the statement right now), at the very least, 3 souls is worth 10 dollars, as that is what people need to pay for them. So you always get your chocolate bar, even if you don't want it, or like it.. you still get the chocolate bar, because that is what you paid for.
With souls, you are buying 3 souls for 10 dollars. That is their resale value, and the price the seller is asking. If that is not a price you want to pay, don't buy it.
If you will settle for nothing less then an Old Soul or Unique Soul, and everything else is worthless to you, that does not change the market value of 3 souls is 10 dollars.
That does not change that you are not buying an Old Soul or a Unique Soul, you are buying a Pack of 3 Souls (with the promise of nothing more then 3 generic fresh start souls). If that does not work for you, don't buy it.
If RNG is something you don't like, then don't play into the system. That is how I roll, as I do not like RNG games like this either.
But again, that does not change you are getting your value, that this is not a loot box, and this is no a gamble.
Not going to argue if they are good or bad.
Just needed to get them to admit the mechanic which we have succeeded. So hopefully no more PR spin posts about how they turned down publishers because they wanted them to implement evil lootboxes.
It's not a "lootbox" or do think think every RNG item is a "Lootbox" if so, then just like the watered down BS that has Become P2W, we can expect "Lootbox" to mean jack shit soon to.
It's an RNG game, and one that you can't even fail at. Hell it's better then most RNG mechanics I have seen in a games.
As @Torval pointed out earlier in the thread, it's not really debatable that the system as it's been described is a lootbox-style system. It's a cash purchase for blind RNG reward. Whether it's good or bad for the game depends upon how they use them.
Slapshot1188 said: Not going to argue if they are good or bad.
Just needed to get them to admit the mechanic which we have succeeded. So hopefully no more PR spin posts about how they turned down publishers because they wanted them to implement evil lootboxes.
So I'm curious because you do seem to know a LOT more than I do on this whole publisher negotiation thing.
When SBS was pitching their game, were these Soulpacks included in these discussions for their business model? Did the publishers say that they wanted more and different kinds of "lootboxes"? Were the publishers specifically requesting gear style lootboxes as an added revenue stream and SBS drew the line there?
Wellspring mentioned they spent hundreds of dollars on lootboxes in other games and found that others were willing to spend thousands on their own in the same game. To a publisher, requesting something with that kind of return only makes good business sense.
Do you think this is where SBS walked away from the "evil" publishers because the publishers they spoke to were only willing to make a deal if the game included specific types of lootboxes? Lootboxes that SBS was not willing to put in their game?
Not at all. This is the essence of lootboxes. Even in Fortnite you could buy “Weapon Llamas”. Sure I get a weapon every time, but it could be a sword, a handgun, a machine gun....
You like that random chance... go for it. As long as they admit what they are doing and give you the information to gamble on the result that’s great.
You are mistaking a game of chance with a 'lootbox' and gambling, and they are not remotely the same thing.
Case in point, CCG's. MtG was a big thing, and many players bought Booster Packs. Now, every single booster pack contained 10 common, 3 uncommon and 1 Rare card.
I not a gamble as you will always get that outcome, you will never walk away with nothing, so there is no risk involved.
While It is a game of chance, it is not a gamble. Now you like me, do not like RNG games, but that does not make evil, or bad, it simply makes them something we don't like.
Now, you may not like what you got, that is a risk, but it is not a fiscal risk, it is a personal preference risk. IE: You may want to build a Green deck and all the rare cards you got were black.
It happens, but, you still walk away with your value in cards even if they are not the cards you want, or have no value to you personally, that does not change the actual value of the cards themselves, you got exactly what you paid for and under no situation did you get slighted, cheated, or shorted in any way.
Case in point, I work in construction, so I drive a truck and use it for work, as such, I place no value on cars, and even lower value on sporty cars. Now, just because I don't value a sports car, does not mean the sports car itself is devalued or worth less in any means.
With all that said.
NO..
This is not some random candy in a package, you will get 3 souls every single time you Soul Pack (or that is what is the statement right now), at the very least, 3 souls is worth 10 dollars, as that is what people need to pay for them. So you always get your chocolate bar, even if you don't want it, or like it.. you still get the chocolate bar, because that is what you paid for.
With souls, you are buying 3 souls for 10 dollars. That is their resale value, and the price the seller is asking. If that is not a price you want to pay, don't buy it.
If you will settle for nothing less then an Old Soul or Unique Soul, and everything else is worthless to you, that does not change the market value of 3 souls is 10 dollars.
That does not change that you are not buying an Old Soul or a Unique Soul, you are buying a Pack of 3 Souls (with the promise of nothing more then 3 generic fresh start souls). If that does not work for you, don't buy it.
If RNG is something you don't like, then don't play into the system. That is how I roll, as I do not like RNG games like this either.
But again, that does not change you are getting your value, that this is not a loot box, and this is no a gamble.
Not going to argue if they are good or bad.
Just needed to get them to admit the mechanic which we have succeeded. So hopefully no more PR spin posts about how they turned down publishers because they wanted them to implement evil lootboxes.
It's not a "lootbox" or do think think every RNG item is a "Lootbox" if so, then just like the watered down BS that has Become P2W, we can expect "Lootbox" to mean jack shit soon to.
It's an RNG game, and one that you can't even fail at. Hell it's better then most RNG mechanics I have seen in a games.
As @Torval pointed out earlier in the thread, it's not really debatable that the system as it's been described is a lootbox-style system. It's a cash purchase for blind RNG reward. Whether it's good or bad for the game depends upon how they use them.
It seems that all you miss is that this is not a Blind Purchase.
Souls, as it is pitched at this point, are both a means to start a character and a currency.
For 10 dollars you get 3 souls to use anyway you want. You are assured no more or less then 3 souls with every purchase.
So in essence you are buying "3 game tokens" for 10 dollars.
It takes 1 Soul to start a Character, no matter what kind of soul it is, so any traits upon the soul, are purely a player applied value, and not one of game value, or publisher value. You do not need more "Normal" souls then "Unique" souls to make a character, as such, as far as character creation, all souls have the same value.
You can also use these Souls to buy other things in a game store of sorts, but again, all souls have the same value, you do not get more items or more powerful items for a unique soul or an old soul then you would for a normal soul.
So nothing is blind here, other then a players personal greed level on what they personally value, but, just because someone values something more then something else, does not give it any intrinsic value.
It's still 3 souls for 10 dollars, which can be used to start a character or buy items from a store, and as far as the game goes, all souls have the same value.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Not at all. This is the essence of lootboxes. Even in Fortnite you could buy “Weapon Llamas”. Sure I get a weapon every time, but it could be a sword, a handgun, a machine gun....
You like that random chance... go for it. As long as they admit what they are doing and give you the information to gamble on the result that’s great.
You are mistaking a game of chance with a 'lootbox' and gambling, and they are not remotely the same thing.
Case in point, CCG's. MtG was a big thing, and many players bought Booster Packs. Now, every single booster pack contained 10 common, 3 uncommon and 1 Rare card.
I not a gamble as you will always get that outcome, you will never walk away with nothing, so there is no risk involved.
While It is a game of chance, it is not a gamble. Now you like me, do not like RNG games, but that does not make evil, or bad, it simply makes them something we don't like.
Now, you may not like what you got, that is a risk, but it is not a fiscal risk, it is a personal preference risk. IE: You may want to build a Green deck and all the rare cards you got were black.
It happens, but, you still walk away with your value in cards even if they are not the cards you want, or have no value to you personally, that does not change the actual value of the cards themselves, you got exactly what you paid for and under no situation did you get slighted, cheated, or shorted in any way.
Case in point, I work in construction, so I drive a truck and use it for work, as such, I place no value on cars, and even lower value on sporty cars. Now, just because I don't value a sports car, does not mean the sports car itself is devalued or worth less in any means.
With all that said.
NO..
This is not some random candy in a package, you will get 3 souls every single time you Soul Pack (or that is what is the statement right now), at the very least, 3 souls is worth 10 dollars, as that is what people need to pay for them. So you always get your chocolate bar, even if you don't want it, or like it.. you still get the chocolate bar, because that is what you paid for.
With souls, you are buying 3 souls for 10 dollars. That is their resale value, and the price the seller is asking. If that is not a price you want to pay, don't buy it.
If you will settle for nothing less then an Old Soul or Unique Soul, and everything else is worthless to you, that does not change the market value of 3 souls is 10 dollars.
That does not change that you are not buying an Old Soul or a Unique Soul, you are buying a Pack of 3 Souls (with the promise of nothing more then 3 generic fresh start souls). If that does not work for you, don't buy it.
If RNG is something you don't like, then don't play into the system. That is how I roll, as I do not like RNG games like this either.
But again, that does not change you are getting your value, that this is not a loot box, and this is no a gamble.
Not going to argue if they are good or bad.
Just needed to get them to admit the mechanic which we have succeeded. So hopefully no more PR spin posts about how they turned down publishers because they wanted them to implement evil lootboxes.
It's not a "lootbox" or do think think every RNG item is a "Lootbox" if so, then just like the watered down BS that has Become P2W, we can expect "Lootbox" to mean jack shit soon to.
It's an RNG game, and one that you can't even fail at. Hell it's better then most RNG mechanics I have seen in a games.
And it differs from buying a "WeaponLlama" in Fortnite how?
Buy a Llama.. get a few random weapons. Buy a SoulPack get a few random Souls.
You can say there are MORE lootboxes in Fortnite. And I would agree. But it's the same mechanic behind it. Whether it's Souls, or Weapons, or Skins... is irrelevant.
Do people cry that the "Weapon Lama" which is purely cosmetic I assume, is a Lootbox?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Not at all. This is the essence of lootboxes. Even in Fortnite you could buy “Weapon Llamas”. Sure I get a weapon every time, but it could be a sword, a handgun, a machine gun....
You like that random chance... go for it. As long as they admit what they are doing and give you the information to gamble on the result that’s great.
You are mistaking a game of chance with a 'lootbox' and gambling, and they are not remotely the same thing.
Case in point, CCG's. MtG was a big thing, and many players bought Booster Packs. Now, every single booster pack contained 10 common, 3 uncommon and 1 Rare card.
I not a gamble as you will always get that outcome, you will never walk away with nothing, so there is no risk involved.
While It is a game of chance, it is not a gamble. Now you like me, do not like RNG games, but that does not make evil, or bad, it simply makes them something we don't like.
Now, you may not like what you got, that is a risk, but it is not a fiscal risk, it is a personal preference risk. IE: You may want to build a Green deck and all the rare cards you got were black.
It happens, but, you still walk away with your value in cards even if they are not the cards you want, or have no value to you personally, that does not change the actual value of the cards themselves, you got exactly what you paid for and under no situation did you get slighted, cheated, or shorted in any way.
Case in point, I work in construction, so I drive a truck and use it for work, as such, I place no value on cars, and even lower value on sporty cars. Now, just because I don't value a sports car, does not mean the sports car itself is devalued or worth less in any means.
With all that said.
NO..
This is not some random candy in a package, you will get 3 souls every single time you Soul Pack (or that is what is the statement right now), at the very least, 3 souls is worth 10 dollars, as that is what people need to pay for them. So you always get your chocolate bar, even if you don't want it, or like it.. you still get the chocolate bar, because that is what you paid for.
With souls, you are buying 3 souls for 10 dollars. That is their resale value, and the price the seller is asking. If that is not a price you want to pay, don't buy it.
If you will settle for nothing less then an Old Soul or Unique Soul, and everything else is worthless to you, that does not change the market value of 3 souls is 10 dollars.
That does not change that you are not buying an Old Soul or a Unique Soul, you are buying a Pack of 3 Souls (with the promise of nothing more then 3 generic fresh start souls). If that does not work for you, don't buy it.
If RNG is something you don't like, then don't play into the system. That is how I roll, as I do not like RNG games like this either.
But again, that does not change you are getting your value, that this is not a loot box, and this is no a gamble.
Not going to argue if they are good or bad.
Just needed to get them to admit the mechanic which we have succeeded. So hopefully no more PR spin posts about how they turned down publishers because they wanted them to implement evil lootboxes.
It's not a "lootbox" or do think think every RNG item is a "Lootbox" if so, then just like the watered down BS that has Become P2W, we can expect "Lootbox" to mean jack shit soon to.
It's an RNG game, and one that you can't even fail at. Hell it's better then most RNG mechanics I have seen in a games.
As @Torval pointed out earlier in the thread, it's not really debatable that the system as it's been described is a lootbox-style system. It's a cash purchase for blind RNG reward. Whether it's good or bad for the game depends upon how they use them.
It seems that all you miss is that this is not a Blind Purchase.
Souls, as it is pitched at this point, are both a means to start a character and a currency.
For 10 dollars you get 3 souls to use anyway you want. You are assured no more or less then 3 souls with every purchase.
So in essence you are buying "3 game tokens" for 10 dollars.
It takes 1 Soul to start a Character, no matter what kind of soul it is, so any traits upon the soul, are purely a player applied value, and not one of game value, or publisher value. You do not need more "Normal" souls then "Unique" souls to make a character, as such, as far as character creation, all souls have the same value.
You can also use these Souls to buy other things in a game store of sorts, but again, all souls have the same value, you do not get more items or more powerful items for a unique soul or an old soul then you would for a normal soul.
So nothing is blind here, other then a players personal greed level on what they personally value, but, just because someone values something more then something else, does not give it any intrinsic value.
It's still 3 souls for 10 dollars, which can be used to start a character or buy items from a store, and as far as the game goes, all souls have the same value.
Most lootboxes give you something no matter what, that doesn't negate it's a lootbox. And players may know generally what they have a chance to get (i.e. themed lootboxes from Overwatch), but it doesn't change it's a lootbox purchase.
When you add RNG chance to a cash purchase, it becomes a lootbox-style system.
You can also use these Souls to buy other things in a game store of sorts, but again, all souls have the same value, you do not get more items or more powerful items for a unique soul or an old soul then you would for a normal soul.
This, in fact, is not completely correct. A Soul = An extra Character slot. They can not be used for anything else in the game, or to purchase things from a store. It was also stated by Caspain that there will be a limit of five active characters per account.
Now according to my experience with Lootboxes in other games, players are encouraged to purchase them. Can we all agree on that right?
Now lets have a look at how Caspian described Soul Packs.
There might be one story building Soul in anywhere from a hundred to a thousand Soul Packs.
You will have a limited number of Souls that you can have active on your account at one time.
You won't know if you received a story building Soul until you have played it for at least 10 hours (That means you have to use a spark in each soul at the cost of $30)
As far as we know, souls are not giftable, or tradable. Resulting in a surplus of souls that are useless to you.
A story building Soul could be found in the purchase of the game without ever buying another soul pack.
If Soul Packs were intended to be used as loot boxes this is a piss poor strategy in encouraging the sales of them.
Actually that list sounds very much like a money sink to attain the soul want.Furthermore the idea of bantering around souls like a loot box is just very lame. the focus should be on the game and it's world and the content,not about what kind of soul you can have. Souls should NOT be in the cash shop..period..ever.I originally thought the idea was you just die and pay 5 bucks to revive,i thought ok it weighs in evenly instead of a big purchase price and sub fee,but this is just detracting from the entire game in a big way,more meaning than it should have.
My very first question/thought was is this idea going to encourage cash shop and encourage dying etc etc.I have to be skeptical because devs are always feeding the community a lot of bull and manipulating their words to sound like a NEW idea or the BEST idea ever.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You can also use these Souls to buy other things in a game store of sorts, but again, all souls have the same value, you do not get more items or more powerful items for a unique soul or an old soul then you would for a normal soul.
This, in fact, is not completely correct. A Soul = An extra Character slot. They can not be used for anything else in the game, or to purchase things from a store. It was also stated by Caspain that there will be a limit of five active characters per account.
Now according to my experience with Lootboxes in other games, players are encouraged to purchase them. Can we all agree on that right?
Now lets have a look at how Caspian described Soul Packs.
There might be one story building Soul in anywhere from a hundred to a thousand Soul Packs.
You will have a limited number of Souls that you can have active on your account at one time.
You won't know if you received a story building Soul until you have played it for at least 10 hours (That means you have to use a spark in each soul at the cost of $30)
As far as we know, souls are not giftable, or tradable. Resulting in a surplus of souls that are useless to you.
A story building Soul could be found in the purchase of the game without ever buying another soul pack.
If Soul Packs were intended to be used as loot boxes this is a piss poor strategy in encouraging the sales of them.
I think you have taken his hypotheticals about 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 and played for 10 hours and turned that into a firm statement. Are those all confirmed now or is it still just "What if" discussion by him on how it would be less P2W?
And again I will add: How do SoulPacks add anything to the player experience as opposed to just making the character you want? If he wants to have 1 in 100 characters be more powerful, that can randomly be put into the character creation and not locked behind a randomized lootbox mechanic.
If, as you describe... he puts them in and discourages their use... WHAT IS THE POINT?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
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"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Not at all. This is the essence of lootboxes. Even in Fortnite you could buy “Weapon Llamas”. Sure I get a weapon every time, but it could be a sword, a handgun, a machine gun....
You like that random chance... go for it. As long as they admit what they are doing and give you the information to gamble on the result that’s great.
You are mistaking a game of chance with a 'lootbox' and gambling, and they are not remotely the same thing.
Case in point, CCG's. MtG was a big thing, and many players bought Booster Packs. Now, every single booster pack contained 10 common, 3 uncommon and 1 Rare card.
I not a gamble as you will always get that outcome, you will never walk away with nothing, so there is no risk involved.
While It is a game of chance, it is not a gamble. Now you like me, do not like RNG games, but that does not make evil, or bad, it simply makes them something we don't like.
Now, you may not like what you got, that is a risk, but it is not a fiscal risk, it is a personal preference risk. IE: You may want to build a Green deck and all the rare cards you got were black.
It happens, but, you still walk away with your value in cards even if they are not the cards you want, or have no value to you personally, that does not change the actual value of the cards themselves, you got exactly what you paid for and under no situation did you get slighted, cheated, or shorted in any way.
Case in point, I work in construction, so I drive a truck and use it for work, as such, I place no value on cars, and even lower value on sporty cars. Now, just because I don't value a sports car, does not mean the sports car itself is devalued or worth less in any means.
With all that said.
NO..
This is not some random candy in a package, you will get 3 souls every single time you Soul Pack (or that is what is the statement right now), at the very least, 3 souls is worth 10 dollars, as that is what people need to pay for them. So you always get your chocolate bar, even if you don't want it, or like it.. you still get the chocolate bar, because that is what you paid for.
With souls, you are buying 3 souls for 10 dollars. That is their resale value, and the price the seller is asking. If that is not a price you want to pay, don't buy it.
If you will settle for nothing less then an Old Soul or Unique Soul, and everything else is worthless to you, that does not change the market value of 3 souls is 10 dollars.
That does not change that you are not buying an Old Soul or a Unique Soul, you are buying a Pack of 3 Souls (with the promise of nothing more then 3 generic fresh start souls). If that does not work for you, don't buy it.
If RNG is something you don't like, then don't play into the system. That is how I roll, as I do not like RNG games like this either.
But again, that does not change you are getting your value, that this is not a loot box, and this is no a gamble.
Not going to argue if they are good or bad.
Just needed to get them to admit the mechanic which we have succeeded. So hopefully no more PR spin posts about how they turned down publishers because they wanted them to implement evil lootboxes.
It's not a "lootbox" or do think think every RNG item is a "Lootbox" if so, then just like the watered down BS that has Become P2W, we can expect "Lootbox" to mean jack shit soon to.
It's an RNG game, and one that you can't even fail at. Hell it's better then most RNG mechanics I have seen in a games.
And it differs from buying a "WeaponLlama" in Fortnite how?
Buy a Llama.. get a few random weapons. Buy a SoulPack get a few random Souls.
You can say there are MORE lootboxes in Fortnite. And I would agree. But it's the same mechanic behind it. Whether it's Souls, or Weapons, or Skins... is irrelevant.
Do people cry that the "Weapon Lama" which is purely cosmetic I assume, is a Lootbox?
Umm... no.
But also irrelevant.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Actually that list sounds very much like a money sink to attain the soul want.Furthermore the idea of bantering around souls like a loot box is just very lame. the focus should be on the game and it's world and the content,not about what kind of soul you can have. Souls should NOT be in the cash shop..period..ever.I originally thought the idea was you just die and pay 5 bucks to revive,i thought ok it weighs in evenly instead of a big purchase price and sub fee,but this is just detracting from the entire game in a big way,more meaning than it should have.
My very first question/thought was is this idea going to encourage cash shop and encourage dying etc etc.I have to be skeptical because devs are always feeding the community a lot of bull and manipulating their words to sound like a NEW idea or the BEST idea ever.
I agree that the focus should be on the creation of the game and not soul packs. And that is exactly where it is for the Dev team. Permadeath, souls, and sparks have been a part of CoE since it first became public, this is not something that is new. It is just the thing Slapshot decided to focus on this week in an attempt to discredit SBS.
There was never a time when you died and paid five bucks to revive, I am not sure where you got that from. It has always been $30 to respark your soul after permadeath. The same as soul packs are not new, it has always been known that they would be available to create additional characters. As for the topic distracting from the game, that is not the fault of SBS but rather of folks making a mountain out of a molehill so to speak. Next they will be attacking the talent system.
In the two nearly three years I have been involved with SBS I have never once felt I was being manipulated or feed bull. The concept of the game has always remained the same, less a few small tweaks here and there that are quite often a result of community feedback.
I agree that the structure of the game differs greatly in comparison to other games, the biggest difference being permadeath and the pay per life model. Not everyone is going to want to play it but just because it isn't the type of game you would enjoy, doesn't mean there isn't a demographic out there that feels differently and is eager to play it.
What I don't understand is if someone doesn't like the concepts and structure of a game, why would they bother with it at all. Why not just find a game you would enjoy and move on to support that game.
If the game was such a scam don't you think it would be the people that had pledged to the game who would be screaming the loudest? Wouldn't the store pledges have ceased, instead of continuously increased over the last two years? To the tune of over 4 million dollars. Yet, unsatisfied pledgers (because there are some) are a minority and the majority of people complaining about the game here have zero interest in playing it and have invested nothing.
I agree that the focus should be on the creation of the game and not soul packs. And that is exactly where it is for the Dev team. Permadeath, souls, and sparks have been a part of CoE since it first became public, this is not something that is new. It is just the thing Slapshot decided to focus on this week in an attempt to discredit SBS.
There was never a time when you died and paid five bucks to revive, I am not sure where you got that from. It has always been $30 to respark your soul after permadeath. The same as soul packs are not new, it has always been known that they would be available to create additional characters.
Just love this part. It was always in the game, yet not on the website. Its Slapshot's fault that they left it out of their business model FAQ and the page on Souls. Was it even MENTIONED on their Kickstarter?
Damn Slapshot...
PS: It hasn't "always been $30 to respark your soul". That goes back to the un-updated Business Model page which still references sparks lasting 10-14 months and costing $30. As a matter of fact it's still not set. I think the latest thought is $35
Caspian-01/12/2018
Sparks are still on sale for $25. They'll likely be $35 at launch, so "lives" are cheaper right now.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Comments
We can argue about whether lootboxes are good or bad until the cows come home. At least people now acknowledge the mechanic.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Isn't it all about allowing people to make informed decisions?
If your Business Model says X and then at launch it's X + Y and you have known it would be X + Y for years that would not be cool.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
What I think the reason may be is because with your game purchase you get 3 souls. And we don't know at this point how those three are decided.
If it's three souls at random and all the ones I get are for example "warriors". Then it would stand to reason that I'd want to buy a soul pack with the "Crafter" theme if I was wanting to create a Crafter.
And this is where it's all speculation. There just isn't really enough information about what you start with and what the packs contain....yet. And that's probably because the devs would rather test out the game, the mechanics, find the bugs and then from there be in a better position to say "This is how we'll handle the starting souls and packs"
In my example of a Crafter theme it's pure speculation. Because although we know there are themes, we don't know what those themes are.
I'm still in the wait and see crowd before I call foul on how they handle them. I will say though I like the idea of themed packs at least vs 3 random souls. Old or young, at least you are getting the types of character you're looking for
Case in point, CCG's. MtG was a big thing, and many players bought Booster Packs. Now, every single booster pack contained 10 common, 3 uncommon and 1 Rare card.
I not a gamble as you will always get that outcome, you will never walk away with nothing, so there is no risk involved.
While It is a game of chance, it is not a gamble. Now you like me, do not like RNG games, but that does not make evil, or bad, it simply makes them something we don't like.
Now, you may not like what you got, that is a risk, but it is not a fiscal risk, it is a personal preference risk. IE: You may want to build a Green deck and all the rare cards you got were black.
It happens, but, you still walk away with your value in cards even if they are not the cards you want, or have no value to you personally, that does not change the actual value of the cards themselves, you got exactly what you paid for and under no situation did you get slighted, cheated, or shorted in any way.
Case in point, I work in construction, so I drive a truck and use it for work, as such, I place no value on cars, and even lower value on sporty cars. Now, just because I don't value a sports car, does not mean the sports car itself is devalued or worth less in any means.
With all that said.
NO..
This is not some random candy in a package, you will get 3 souls every single time you Soul Pack (or that is what is the statement right now), at the very least, 3 souls is worth 10 dollars, as that is what people need to pay for them. So you always get your chocolate bar, even if you don't want it, or like it.. you still get the chocolate bar, because that is what you paid for.
With souls, you are buying 3 souls for 10 dollars. That is their resale value, and the price the seller is asking. If that is not a price you want to pay, don't buy it.
If you will settle for nothing less then an Old Soul or Unique Soul, and everything else is worthless to you, that does not change the market value of 3 souls is 10 dollars.
That does not change that you are not buying an Old Soul or a Unique Soul, you are buying a Pack of 3 Souls (with the promise of nothing more then 3 generic fresh start souls). If that does not work for you, don't buy it.
If RNG is something you don't like, then don't play into the system. That is how I roll, as I do not like RNG games like this either.
But again, that does not change you are getting your value, that this is not a loot box, and this is no a gamble.
You can buy Themed Packs, like Crafts-person, Noble, but they are not the Soul, they are like a Boon to your Soul, IE: an Add On, if you want a jump start into that, but you can also just learn a trade in game as well.
The big thing here is Old Souls or Unique Souls, that people are all uppity about, those come with abilities and traits linked to them they will just be better at. But those traits are random, and now everyone is all obsessed about needing to buy into the game to get their unique soul, because, you know.. they have needs.
Lucky for me.. I have no such needs.
Just needed to get them to admit the mechanic which we have succeeded.
So hopefully no more PR spin posts about how they turned down publishers because they wanted them to implement evil lootboxes.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
With Camelot Unchain MJ promised subscriptions only, and he'd rather see the game go under than add a cash shop. Would have been better to say he'll start with a sub model and see if it can sustain itself. Should it fail to he could have outlined the next few alternatives, perhaps adding a cosmetic only cash shop or what not.
Caspian has made the same mistake, never going to charge a sub, never going to sell anything which provides an advantage post launch outside of soul pack and sparks, just no good reason to limit the company / game like that when it likely won't launch until 2022 or so.
Even now this entire thread is because he said he turned down investors who wanted him to add lootboxes or other monetization methods, which I can perfectly understand the investors viewpoint.
I feel SWTOR, TSW, ESO, BDO, LOTRO and even ArcheAge are great modern examples (but there many more) of monetization models evolving over time. In the case of SWTOR, LOTRO, and TSW they were more forced changes due to the surge in F2P/cash shop model largely catching the devs by surprise.
It was pretty clear ESO and BDO in particular had really thought through the evolution of the monetization model, and walked through it in careful steps which maximized the amount of money they extracted from every tier of customer and during lifecycle of their games.
A proactive approach towards long term monetization is required for a game to survive over the long term. Very doubtful any game which lives 5, 10, or 20 years will be able to stick with only one monetization model, in fact I'm unaware of any MMORPG currently in business that has managed to do so, all have evolved/changed in some manner.
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It's an RNG game, and one that you can't even fail at. Hell it's better then most RNG mechanics I have seen in a games.
If the value of a pack that contains 3 souls of random type is 10 dollars, then the value of 3 normal souls is less than 10 dollars and the value of packs with Old Soul or Unique soul is more than 10 dollars.
You're not paying the real value of the souls in the pack, you're gambling.
If your Business Model says X and then at launch it's X + Y and you have known it would be X + Y for years that would not be cool.
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Buy a Llama.. get a few random weapons. Buy a SoulPack get a few random Souls.
You can say there are MORE lootboxes in Fortnite. And I would agree. But it's the same mechanic behind it. Whether it's Souls, or Weapons, or Skins... is irrelevant.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
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When SBS was pitching their game, were these Soulpacks included in these discussions for their business model?
Did the publishers say that they wanted more and different kinds of "lootboxes"?
Were the publishers specifically requesting gear style lootboxes as an added revenue stream and SBS drew the line there?
Wellspring mentioned they spent hundreds of dollars on lootboxes in other games and found that others were willing to spend thousands on their own in the same game.
To a publisher, requesting something with that kind of return only makes good business sense.
Do you think this is where SBS walked away from the "evil" publishers because the publishers they spoke to were only willing to make a deal if the game included specific types of lootboxes?
Lootboxes that SBS was not willing to put in their game?
Do any of these questions have answers?
Souls, as it is pitched at this point, are both a means to start a character and a currency.
For 10 dollars you get 3 souls to use anyway you want. You are assured no more or less then 3 souls with every purchase.
So in essence you are buying "3 game tokens" for 10 dollars.
It takes 1 Soul to start a Character, no matter what kind of soul it is, so any traits upon the soul, are purely a player applied value, and not one of game value, or publisher value. You do not need more "Normal" souls then "Unique" souls to make a character, as such, as far as character creation, all souls have the same value.
You can also use these Souls to buy other things in a game store of sorts, but again, all souls have the same value, you do not get more items or more powerful items for a unique soul or an old soul then you would for a normal soul.
So nothing is blind here, other then a players personal greed level on what they personally value, but, just because someone values something more then something else, does not give it any intrinsic value.
It's still 3 souls for 10 dollars, which can be used to start a character or buy items from a store, and as far as the game goes, all souls have the same value.
When you add RNG chance to a cash purchase, it becomes a lootbox-style system.
You can also use these Souls to buy other things in a game store of sorts, but again, all souls have the same value, you do not get more items or more powerful items for a unique soul or an old soul then you would for a normal soul.
Now according to my experience with Lootboxes in other games, players are encouraged to purchase them. Can we all agree on that right?
Now lets have a look at how Caspian described Soul Packs.
- There might be one story building Soul in anywhere from a hundred to a thousand Soul Packs.
- You will have a limited number of Souls that you can have active on your account at one time.
- You won't know if you received a story building Soul until you have played it for at least 10 hours (That means you have to use a spark in each soul at the cost of $30)
- As far as we know, souls are not giftable, or tradable. Resulting in a surplus of souls that are useless to you.
- A story building Soul could be found in the purchase of the game without ever buying another soul pack.
If Soul Packs were intended to be used as loot boxes this is a piss poor strategy in encouraging the sales of them.the focus should be on the game and it's world and the content,not about what kind of soul you can have.
Souls should NOT be in the cash shop..period..ever.I originally thought the idea was you just die and pay 5 bucks to revive,i thought ok it weighs in evenly instead of a big purchase price and sub fee,but this is just detracting from the entire game in a big way,more meaning than it should have.
My very first question/thought was is this idea going to encourage cash shop and encourage dying etc etc.I have to be skeptical because devs are always feeding the community a lot of bull and manipulating their words to sound like a NEW idea or the BEST idea ever.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
And again I will add: How do SoulPacks add anything to the player experience as opposed to just making the character you want? If he wants to have 1 in 100 characters be more powerful, that can randomly be put into the character creation and not locked behind a randomized lootbox mechanic.
If, as you describe... he puts them in and discourages their use... WHAT IS THE POINT?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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But also irrelevant.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There was never a time when you died and paid five bucks to revive, I am not sure where you got that from. It has always been $30 to respark your soul after permadeath. The same as soul packs are not new, it has always been known that they would be available to create additional characters. As for the topic distracting from the game, that is not the fault of SBS but rather of folks making a mountain out of a molehill so to speak. Next they will be attacking the talent system.
In the two nearly three years I have been involved with SBS I have never once felt I was being manipulated or feed bull. The concept of the game has always remained the same, less a few small tweaks here and there that are quite often a result of community feedback.
I agree that the structure of the game differs greatly in comparison to other games, the biggest difference being permadeath and the pay per life model. Not everyone is going to want to play it but just because it isn't the type of game you would enjoy, doesn't mean there isn't a demographic out there that feels differently and is eager to play it.
What I don't understand is if someone doesn't like the concepts and structure of a game, why would they bother with it at all. Why not just find a game you would enjoy and move on to support that game.
If the game was such a scam don't you think it would be the people that had pledged to the game who would be screaming the loudest? Wouldn't the store pledges have ceased, instead of continuously increased over the last two years? To the tune of over 4 million dollars. Yet, unsatisfied pledgers (because there are some) are a minority and the majority of people complaining about the game here have zero interest in playing it and have invested nothing.
Damn Slapshot...
PS: It hasn't "always been $30 to respark your soul". That goes back to the un-updated Business Model page which still references sparks lasting 10-14 months and costing $30.
As a matter of fact it's still not set. I think the latest thought is $35
Caspian-01/12/2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018