Lootboxes are gambling (Official Statement)

Eldurian

Iselin said:

Eldurian said:

Prepare to have you mind blown when you realize the government does little if anything to protect them from that.

Lets do a quick poll:

Who here never drank until 21?
Who here never looked at porn until 18?
Who here never smoked weed while it was illegal in their state? 
Who here has never casually gambled with their friends?

My god, it's almost like the parent's have to raise their kids with common sense and hope for the best rather than relying on the government to be their parent whenever they aren't home.

Yes some laws are really easy to break by anyone determined and careful enough. And law enforcement tends to prioritize murder over jay walking. So your conclusion is we shouldn't have laws? 

My conclusion is to pick and choose your battles. Law enforcement time spent hunting down the perpetrators of victimless crimes and minor issues is wasted tax dollars.

This is a great example of a minor issue with no victim that is a complete waste of our time.

If you get what you want there will be some new branch of some government agency going through games checking their monetization systems to ensure they are in compliance with your new anti-gambling laws. 

What an utter waste of time and tax dollars.

Cryomatrix

https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/living-without-credit-score

Why would you hamper yourself by not having a credit score just because you can. Also, there are nice rewards on the credit card, if you use it wisely, which I don't, you could get free air plane tickets and what not.  I have a credit card cuz i'm married

Cryomatrix

Ungood

laserit said:

Ungood said:

I want to make a few points.

I don't like Lootboxes. I personally hate the RNG-Hell they are, and I would love to justify getting rid of them.

With that said, calling them gambling, is not the way to make it happen. 

The only way to get rid of lootboxes is to support games with another payment system

You can't simply not buy them, as others will, and as long as they are profitable, a company will use them, or something like them to keep making as much money as possible. That is how F2P killed the Sub based games, people spent more money on the F2P games. If you want some other system to happen, you need to open your wallets and pay into those other systems to make them profitable.

We can't blame a company for wanting to make money.
We can't expect a company to raise and protect our children... that is our job.

What we can do, is influance things, and the only way to make that happen is by voting with your wallet.. not by closing it. but by opening it to the things you want to see happen.

Closing your wallet just has the company write you off and move on to someone else that will open theirs, and they will cater to them, no matter how much you fuss, because they are the ones funding things, not you.

So again, if you want lootboxes to go away, stop buying them but make sure to buy something else that you want to see more of.

Case in point, I will not buy RNG stuff in any game I play, what I will buy is stuff when they sell me directly what I want, because that is what I want to see more of.

Whether it's gambling or not doesn't matter. Keep the loot box monetization model away from kids.

Already done.

Anyone under the legal age of consent cannot legally play an MMO, as every MMO requires the account creator to sign an EULA, which must be done by a legal adult, if a child is playing an MMO, it is because their parent or legal guardian is letting them use their account.

As such, any issues with "Think of the Children" is a result of bad or irresponsible parenting, not anything the game company has done, maybe you can call CPS on everyone that lets their child play an MMO, but as far as the game company goers, every single account has been made by a legal adult. 

Now, can we all please give the "Think of the Children" horseshit a rest?

Eldurian

Ungood said:

Anyone under the legal age of consent cannot legally play an MMO, as every MMO requires the account creator to sign an EULA, which must be done by a legal adult, if a child is playing an MMO, it is because their parent or legal guardian is letting them use their account.

That's awesome, do you have a source?

Ungood

Slapshot1188 said:

Eldurian said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Maybe you are incapable of following an argument. So I will make it simple for you even though I know I have said this multiple times:

I do not care what an informed adult does with their money.  I do not see any reason why companies should be unable to market gambling devices to ADULTS in their games. They should however need to comply with regulations (to make sure the games are fair) and have to post the odds.   And of course, it is incumbent on them to insure they are not selling them to kids, the same way a casino is responsible.


Simple enough for you to follow?

I follow the reasons you say you don't support this but I also track the fact that you go to every subforum on these boards and rail against their monetization methods.

I am straight up calling you a liar.

This is about you, not children. You're masquerading under another cause to give the appearance of nobility where there is none to be found.

Well, I'll let the posts stand for themselves.  You have obviously lost the argument and are resorting to name calling and silly memes.   Its OK.  The world is moving forward.

We can do better.
We will do better.

Nope.

If not Loot Boxes, some other scheme will be developed to part fools with their money. Nothing will get "better" just the flavor of the poison will change, until people put their money where they want the change to happen. Companies follow profit, not ideals.

Welcome to Reality.

Slapshot1188

Ungood said:

laserit said:

Ungood said:

I want to make a few points.

I don't like Lootboxes. I personally hate the RNG-Hell they are, and I would love to justify getting rid of them.

With that said, calling them gambling, is not the way to make it happen. 

The only way to get rid of lootboxes is to support games with another payment system

You can't simply not buy them, as others will, and as long as they are profitable, a company will use them, or something like them to keep making as much money as possible. That is how F2P killed the Sub based games, people spent more money on the F2P games. If you want some other system to happen, you need to open your wallets and pay into those other systems to make them profitable.

We can't blame a company for wanting to make money.
We can't expect a company to raise and protect our children... that is our job.

What we can do, is influance things, and the only way to make that happen is by voting with your wallet.. not by closing it. but by opening it to the things you want to see happen.

Closing your wallet just has the company write you off and move on to someone else that will open theirs, and they will cater to them, no matter how much you fuss, because they are the ones funding things, not you.

So again, if you want lootboxes to go away, stop buying them but make sure to buy something else that you want to see more of.

Case in point, I will not buy RNG stuff in any game I play, what I will buy is stuff when they sell me directly what I want, because that is what I want to see more of.

Whether it's gambling or not doesn't matter. Keep the loot box monetization model away from kids.

Already done.

Anyone under the legal age of consent cannot legally play an MMO, as every MMO requires the account creator to sign an EULA, which must be done by a legal adult, if a child is playing an MMO, it is because their parent or legal guardian is letting them use their account.

As such, any issues with "Think of the Children" is a result of bad or irresponsible parenting, not anything the game company has done, maybe you can call CPS on everyone that lets their child play an MMO, but as far as the game company goers, every single account has been made by a legal adult. 

Now, can we all please give the "Think of the Children" horseshit a rest?

I just made an EA/Origin account with a birthday that made me 16 and accepted the EULA...

Ungood

Eldurian said:

Ungood said:

Anyone under the legal age of consent cannot legally play an MMO, as every MMO requires the account creator to sign an EULA, which must be done by a legal adult, if a child is playing an MMO, it is because their parent or legal guardian is letting them use their account.

That's awesome, do you have a source?

Sure, read the EULA of any MMO you download.

I'll give you an generic example of what they say:

This is a legal agreement between you and (Game Company). Please review this End User License Agreement ("Agreement") carefully before installing, accessing or utilizing the game you have just purchased ("GAME SOFTWARE") and please inquire about anything you do not understand. If you are not eighteen (18) years of age, have your parents review this Agreement. By installing, copying and/or otherwise using the Game Software you are signifying your acknowledgement, acceptance and agreement to this Agreement.

Not to mention, anyone under the legal age of consent Cannot by Law, Agree to any Legal Document (IE: Cannot give Consent) so, again, as redundant as this all sounds, by law, unless they are of at least the legal age of consent (or have their Parents, Legal Guardians Permission and also that comes with the legal guardian being responsible), they cannot legally click "I Agree" to any EULA on any product.

Funny how the law works like that.

Eldurian

Slapshot1188 said:

Did you just link data from 14 years ago as some sort of useful info about today’s demographics?  Geez... that was published before WoW even released.  

Think maybe WoW might have changed the industry a bit?

Ah you are right, it is very old. My apologies. I used the first result.

Here are some more recent stats.

MMO gamers are getting older and older these days. Not sure why you would think otherwise.

laserit

Ungood said:

laserit said:

Ungood said:

I want to make a few points.

I don't like Lootboxes. I personally hate the RNG-Hell they are, and I would love to justify getting rid of them.

With that said, calling them gambling, is not the way to make it happen. 

The only way to get rid of lootboxes is to support games with another payment system

You can't simply not buy them, as others will, and as long as they are profitable, a company will use them, or something like them to keep making as much money as possible. That is how F2P killed the Sub based games, people spent more money on the F2P games. If you want some other system to happen, you need to open your wallets and pay into those other systems to make them profitable.

We can't blame a company for wanting to make money.
We can't expect a company to raise and protect our children... that is our job.

What we can do, is influance things, and the only way to make that happen is by voting with your wallet.. not by closing it. but by opening it to the things you want to see happen.

Closing your wallet just has the company write you off and move on to someone else that will open theirs, and they will cater to them, no matter how much you fuss, because they are the ones funding things, not you.

So again, if you want lootboxes to go away, stop buying them but make sure to buy something else that you want to see more of.

Case in point, I will not buy RNG stuff in any game I play, what I will buy is stuff when they sell me directly what I want, because that is what I want to see more of.

Whether it's gambling or not doesn't matter. Keep the loot box monetization model away from kids.

Already done.

Anyone under the legal age of consent cannot legally play an MMO, as every MMO requires the account creator to sign an EULA, which must be done by a legal adult, if a child is playing an MMO, it is because their parent or legal guardian is letting them use their account.

As such, any issues with "Think of the Children" is a result of bad or irresponsible parenting, not anything the game company has done, maybe you can call CPS on everyone that lets their child play an MMO, but as far as the game company goers, every single account has been made by a legal adult. 

Now, can we all please give the "Think of the Children" horseshit a rest?

Really?

You mean that part where you set your birthdate and your good to go.

How about we do it like the pubs and bars. Here if a pub gets caught with a minor it's an instant $500 fine per minor. When I was young pubs and bars were full of minors (they liked money), not anymore. 

"Think of the Children" horseshit"

Must be shitty to be so cynical.

Sorry... I care about the society I live in. I don't lock my doors, I don't worry about being on the wrong side of town. I believe kids shouldn't be targets for greedy fucks with no ethics. I don't want armed guards in our schools because society doesn't give a fuck about one another and treats each other as targets to be taken.

Asm0deus

Eldurian said:

...snip....

Prepare to have you mind blown when you realize the government does little if anything to protect them from that.

Lets do a quick poll:

Who here never drank until 21?
Who here never looked at porn until 18?
Who here never smoked weed while it was illegal in their state? 
Who here has never casually gambled with their friends?

My god, it's almost like the parent's have to raise their kids with common sense and hope for the best rather than relying on the government to be their parent whenever they aren't home.

What's your point?

I think some of you here are terrified of losing "Ma Fweedoms" and are running off tangent.  It's about curbing predatory practices and bad behavior.

All the thing you mention above have laws to limit them, it's not about taking away your freedoms but assuring the the protection of others.

I had drinks before 18, it's 18 here in Canada, that doesn't mean it was okay or that we should just say fudge it and remove the legal drinking age... clubs that target people under the age of 18 should and can be held accountable but laws need to be in place to be able to. Doesn't matter if some sneak in or not.

It's the same with the rest of the stupid examples you are giving just because people partake in bad behavior or criminal behavior even doesn't mean there should be no laws against such and we should just let big corps get in on the action.

I mean seriously if you bet playing in a poker game with your friends in your home or over a game of chess in the park that's one thing and VASTLY different than some big corporation or other big business doing it and even to the point the pay specialists to come up with ways specifically target vulnerable people and bypass existing laws.

It's pretty bloody simple...you want to gamble go to a casino, you want to see stripper and get drunk go to the nearest strip club.... screaming ..."ohhhhhh but MA libirtieeeeessss" is sad malarky.

The gaming industry has proven itself unable to regulate itself just like the gambling industry has, just like the firearms and liquor industry has so it should be regulated as well.

Eldurian

Ungood said:

If not Loot Boxes, some other scheme will be developed to part fools with their money. Nothing will get "better" just the flavor of the poison will change, until people put their money where they want the change to happen. Companies follow profit, not ideals.

Welcome to Reality.

The thing is no matter how much people protest to the contrary, we are all aware of why they are here. Because they don't like lootboxes, therefore they support anything that is anti-lootbox.

The same people arguing here are the same people who can be seen all across mmorpg.com arguing against things like crowd funding and cash shops.

These are people who hold in-game grinding to some kind of holy standard that inherently is more virtuous than going out, earning money performing a real job, and spending it on your hobby.

This is not about children. This is not even about lootboxes. This is about people being angry when they are not handed easy wins because they have been playing longer, railing against anything that prevents it, and now want the government to intervene on their behalf and are pulling the usual tactic of using a group such as children, women, or minorities as a human shield to paint anyone arguing against their position as evil.

Slapshot1188

Asm0deus said:

Eldurian said:

...snip....

Prepare to have you mind blown when you realize the government does little if anything to protect them from that.

Lets do a quick poll:

Who here never drank until 21?
Who here never looked at porn until 18?
Who here never smoked weed while it was illegal in their state? 
Who here has never casually gambled with their friends?

My god, it's almost like the parent's have to raise their kids with common sense and hope for the best rather than relying on the government to be their parent whenever they aren't home.

What's your point?

I think some of you here are terrified of losing "Ma Fweedoms" and are running off tangent.  It's about curbing predatory practices and bad behavior.

All the thing you mention above have laws to limit them, it's not about taking away your freedoms but assuring the the protection of others.

I had drinks before 18, it's 18 here in Canada, that doesn't mean it was okay or that we should just say fudge it and remove the legal drinking age... clubs that target people under the age of 18 should and can be held accountable but laws need to be in place to be able to. Doesn't matter if some sneak in or not.

It's the same with the rest of the stupid examples you are giving just because people partake in bad behavior or criminal behavior even doesn't mean there should be no laws against such and we should just let big corps get in on the action.

I mean seriously if you bet playing in a poker game with your friends in your home or over a game of chess in the park that's one thing and VASTLY different than some big corporation or other big business doing it and even to the point the pay specialists to come up with ways specifically target vulnerable people and bypass existing laws.

It's pretty bloody simple...you want to gamble go to a casino, you want to see stripper and get drunk go to the nearest strip club.... screaming ..."ohhhhhh but MA libirtieeeeessss" is sad malarky.

The gaming industry has proven itself unable to regulate itself just like the gambling industry has, just like the firearms and liquor industry has so it should be regulated as well.

To be fair, you probably aren’t a college student with a girlfriend who figured out the secret to life on his sofa.  Like I said, if I only knew today what I knew when I was 22...

Ungood

laserit said:

Ungood said:

laserit said:

Ungood said:

I want to make a few points.

I don't like Lootboxes. I personally hate the RNG-Hell they are, and I would love to justify getting rid of them.

With that said, calling them gambling, is not the way to make it happen. 

The only way to get rid of lootboxes is to support games with another payment system

You can't simply not buy them, as others will, and as long as they are profitable, a company will use them, or something like them to keep making as much money as possible. That is how F2P killed the Sub based games, people spent more money on the F2P games. If you want some other system to happen, you need to open your wallets and pay into those other systems to make them profitable.

We can't blame a company for wanting to make money.
We can't expect a company to raise and protect our children... that is our job.

What we can do, is influance things, and the only way to make that happen is by voting with your wallet.. not by closing it. but by opening it to the things you want to see happen.

Closing your wallet just has the company write you off and move on to someone else that will open theirs, and they will cater to them, no matter how much you fuss, because they are the ones funding things, not you.

So again, if you want lootboxes to go away, stop buying them but make sure to buy something else that you want to see more of.

Case in point, I will not buy RNG stuff in any game I play, what I will buy is stuff when they sell me directly what I want, because that is what I want to see more of.

Whether it's gambling or not doesn't matter. Keep the loot box monetization model away from kids.

Already done.

Anyone under the legal age of consent cannot legally play an MMO, as every MMO requires the account creator to sign an EULA, which must be done by a legal adult, if a child is playing an MMO, it is because their parent or legal guardian is letting them use their account.

As such, any issues with "Think of the Children" is a result of bad or irresponsible parenting, not anything the game company has done, maybe you can call CPS on everyone that lets their child play an MMO, but as far as the game company goers, every single account has been made by a legal adult. 

Now, can we all please give the "Think of the Children" horseshit a rest?

Really?

You mean that part where you set your birthdate and your good to go.

Yup.

If someone lies, that is the parents and the liars fault, not the company.

Or maybe you have some delusional ideal where a game company should come to your house, demand to see your ID, and prove you are an adult, before they let you play their game.. spare me such stupid ideas.

And yah.. spare me the "think of the children" horseshit as well, as that is all it.

By law, a Child cannot play an MMO, without their parents or legal guardian's consent, on the EULA.

So.. you got your wish. Spare me any further tears on this.

Ungood

Asm0deus said:

Eldurian said:

...snip....

Prepare to have you mind blown when you realize the government does little if anything to protect them from that.

Lets do a quick poll:

Who here never drank until 21?
Who here never looked at porn until 18?
Who here never smoked weed while it was illegal in their state? 
Who here has never casually gambled with their friends?

My god, it's almost like the parent's have to raise their kids with common sense and hope for the best rather than relying on the government to be their parent whenever they aren't home.

What's your point?

I think some of you here are terrified of losing "Ma Fweedoms" and are running off tangent.  It's about curbing predatory practices and bad behavior.

All the thing you mention above have laws to limit them, it's not about taking away your freedoms but assuring the the protection of others.

I had drinks before 18, it's 18 here in Canada, that doesn't mean it was okay or that we should just say fudge it and remove the legal drinking age... clubs that target people under the age of 18 should and can be held accountable but laws need to be in place to be able to. Doesn't matter if some sneak in or not.

It's the same with the rest of the stupid examples you are giving just because people partake in bad behavior or criminal behavior even doesn't mean there should be no laws against such and we should just let big corps get in on the action.

I mean seriously if you bet playing in a poker game with your friends in your home or over a game of chess in the park that's one thing and VASTLY different than some big corporation or other big business doing it and even to the point the pay specialists to come up with ways specifically target vulnerable people and bypass existing laws.

It's pretty bloody simple...you want to gamble go to a casino, you want to see stripper and get drunk go to the nearest strip club.... screaming ..."ohhhhhh but MA libirtieeeeessss" is sad malarky.

The gaming industry has proven itself unable to regulate itself just like the gambling industry has, just like the firearms and liquor industry has so it should be regulated as well.

It's about bad ideas that will lead to more bad ideas.

In the end, nothing good will come trying to outlaw Loot boxes, something else will be put in, so all that will happen is the flavor of the poison will change, nothing will get 'better'. As others have said, the people here are just anti-lootbox, they don't care about the addictive issues and others things that happen in games, so this is not about children, this is not about predatory practices, this not about addictions, this... this right here.. is purely about them not liking that flavor of poison that Lootboxes are, but they are still willing to drink poison none the less.

Vermillion_Raventhal

I am not sure if lootboxes should banned by law.  I won't be mad for sure because I resent the ideal of game play being bought. Especially the random exploitive method of lootboxes.

The problem with the law is what is now considered gambling?  Anything purchased with random probability now gambling?

craftseeker

I would love to block @Eldurian, but what's the point when everyone keeps quoting him. The guy sure loves his PvP even forum PvP. His 'arguments' revolve around what he thinks is cool and edgy, with more than a touch of 'no such thing as society'. 

Well society does exist, and common community values are important. We make laws, have customs, and common practices for a reason. Gambling is not a social good, limited gambling among friends may be a little bit of fun, but beyond that it is corrosive to all levels of society. From the individual, to the family, and on to the broader society. We all know loot boxes are gambling, we all know they exist to extract cash from the gullible, and we all know that regulating this practice is a social good. Belgium is right, the Netherlands are right.

We can do better.

Eldurian

craftseeker said:

Well society does exist, and common community values are important. We make laws, have customs, and common practices for a reason. Gambling is not a social good, limited gambling among friends may be a little bit of fun, but beyond that it is corrosive to all levels of society. 

We've been down this road before:



And we're currently going through it with our war on drugs.

Some people I know argue that marijuana, gay marriage, and letting trans people use the bathroom of their choice is eroding the fabric of society.

Rick Santorum thinks pornography erodes the fabric of society.

What makes your opinion on what erodes the fabric of our society so much more inherently important that you are justified in enforcing your personal ideals on other people who disagree?

Cryomatrix

craftseeker said:

I would love to block @Eldurian, but what's the point when everyone keeps quoting him. The guy sure loves his PvP even forum PvP. His 'arguments' revolve around what he thinks is cool and edgy, with more than a touch of 'no such thing as society'. 

Well society does exist, and common community values are important. We make laws, have customs, and common practices for a reason. Gambling is not a social good, limited gambling among friends may be a little bit of fun, but beyond that it is corrosive to all levels of society. From the individual, to the family, and on to the broader society. We all know loot boxes are gambling, we all know they exist to extract cash from the gullible, and we all know that regulating this practice is a social good. Belgium is right, the Netherlands are right.

We can do better.

I selectively read what I want. Usually, if it is too long, I don't even bother reading it. Then again most things that are long are people arguing with one another. 

I just don't read them. I don't block anyone, I see the name, I see the size of their rant and quickly scroll down. I also delete quote boxes that show a million quotes. Once i see a bunch of quote boxes in one post, I automatically scroll past it. 

Craftseeker, your comment was brief enough that I actually read it  and you had a nice hook in your first line lol. 

Cryomatrix

Asm0deus

Ungood said:

Asm0deus said:

Eldurian said:

...snip....

Prepare to have you mind blown when you realize the government does little if anything to protect them from that.

Lets do a quick poll:

Who here never drank until 21?
Who here never looked at porn until 18?
Who here never smoked weed while it was illegal in their state? 
Who here has never casually gambled with their friends?

My god, it's almost like the parent's have to raise their kids with common sense and hope for the best rather than relying on the government to be their parent whenever they aren't home.

What's your point?

I think some of you here are terrified of losing "Ma Fweedoms" and are running off tangent.  It's about curbing predatory practices and bad behavior.

All the thing you mention above have laws to limit them, it's not about taking away your freedoms but assuring the the protection of others.

I had drinks before 18, it's 18 here in Canada, that doesn't mean it was okay or that we should just say fudge it and remove the legal drinking age... clubs that target people under the age of 18 should and can be held accountable but laws need to be in place to be able to. Doesn't matter if some sneak in or not.

It's the same with the rest of the stupid examples you are giving just because people partake in bad behavior or criminal behavior even doesn't mean there should be no laws against such and we should just let big corps get in on the action.

I mean seriously if you bet playing in a poker game with your friends in your home or over a game of chess in the park that's one thing and VASTLY different than some big corporation or other big business doing it and even to the point the pay specialists to come up with ways specifically target vulnerable people and bypass existing laws.

It's pretty bloody simple...you want to gamble go to a casino, you want to see stripper and get drunk go to the nearest strip club.... screaming ..."ohhhhhh but MA libirtieeeeessss" is sad malarky.

The gaming industry has proven itself unable to regulate itself just like the gambling industry has, just like the firearms and liquor industry has so it should be regulated as well.

It's about bad ideas that will lead to more bad ideas.

In the end, nothing good will come trying to outlaw Loot boxes, something else will be put in, so all that will happen is the flavor of the poison will change, nothing will get 'better'. As others have said, the people here are just anti-lootbox, they don't care about the addictive issues and others things that happen in games, so this is not about children, this is not about predatory practices, this not about addictions, this... this right here.. is purely about them not liking that flavor of poison that Lootboxes are, but they are still willing to drink poison none the less.

Do you know what the baddest idea of all is.....to do nothing.    You know that expression,  "evil wins when good people do nothing"...it's an expression and a cliche because there's a grain of truth in it.

You say some people will say yea sure lets go for it because they do not like lootboxes... well sure it will happen just like some people will say no no ma fweedoms because they like lootboxes and want to keep buying them and bugger all if its a good or bad practice...

This argument you guys are throwing out is asinine because it cuts both ways and is just further proof or incentive that it needs to be regulated.

drax2

Totally agree, in the past I have bought loot boxes on such games as Overwatch and Dota2. They don't tell you the odds for getting rares and such. In my view, it's worse than gambling because at least if you buy a scratchier card they are required to tell you the odd's of winning. Casino's have regulations on what the odds and standards of what a game must be. The companies are selling shiny pixel in a black box with no upfront honestly about the odds of winning for the most part.

Slapshot1188

Eldurian said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Did you just link data from 14 years ago as some sort of useful info about today’s demographics?  Geez... that was published before WoW even released.  

Think maybe WoW might have changed the industry a bit?

Ah you are right, it is very old. My apologies. I used the first result.

Here are some more recent stats.

MMO gamers are getting older and older these days. Not sure why you would think otherwise.

What is this link supposed to show me?  It takes to a pay site for which I doubt you have subscribed.  Another pointless post.

Iselin

Eldurian said:

Ungood said:

If not Loot Boxes, some other scheme will be developed to part fools with their money. Nothing will get "better" just the flavor of the poison will change, until people put their money where they want the change to happen. Companies follow profit, not ideals.

Welcome to Reality.

The thing is no matter how much people protest to the contrary, we are all aware of why they are here. Because they don't like lootboxes, therefore they support anything that is anti-lootbox.

The same people arguing here are the same people who can be seen all across mmorpg.com arguing against things like crowd funding and cash shops.

These are people who hold in-game grinding to some kind of holy standard that inherently is more virtuous than going out, earning money performing a real job, and spending it on your hobby.

This is not about children. This is not even about lootboxes. This is about people being angry when they are not handed easy wins because they have been playing longer, railing against anything that prevents it, and now want the government to intervene on their behalf and are pulling the usual tactic of using a group such as children, women, or minorities as a human shield to paint anyone arguing against their position as evil.

Whatever the reasons others have, they are infinitely more intelligent than what the libertarian fucktards are contributing to this thread.

Ungood

Asm0deus said:

Do you know what the baddest idea of all is.....to do nothing.    You know that expression,  "evil wins when good people do nothing"...it's an expression and a cliche because there's a grain of truth in it.

I have said several times on this thread that people need to take initiative and invest in other methods, I know I do that, because I know that is the language game companies speak, when I spend money, I ensure to buy non-RNG items, in everything I purchase, because that is the direction I want things to go in.

Lootboxes came to be because they are profitable and a reality check is that companies don't care about loot boxes, they only care about money, and if something else is equally or more profitable, they will invest in that.


But the truth is, what won't solve this is expecting something for free, thinking that closing your wallet is a vote (it's not, it's allowing everyone else to vote for you)  or crying to a politician to save you.

Yah, we should do something.. some of us are actually doing something, while others are crying that someone else needs to do something and expecting politicians to save them.

laserit

Ungood said:

Asm0deus said:

Eldurian said:

...snip....

Prepare to have you mind blown when you realize the government does little if anything to protect them from that.

Lets do a quick poll:

Who here never drank until 21?
Who here never looked at porn until 18?
Who here never smoked weed while it was illegal in their state? 
Who here has never casually gambled with their friends?

My god, it's almost like the parent's have to raise their kids with common sense and hope for the best rather than relying on the government to be their parent whenever they aren't home.

What's your point?

I think some of you here are terrified of losing "Ma Fweedoms" and are running off tangent.  It's about curbing predatory practices and bad behavior.

All the thing you mention above have laws to limit them, it's not about taking away your freedoms but assuring the the protection of others.

I had drinks before 18, it's 18 here in Canada, that doesn't mean it was okay or that we should just say fudge it and remove the legal drinking age... clubs that target people under the age of 18 should and can be held accountable but laws need to be in place to be able to. Doesn't matter if some sneak in or not.

It's the same with the rest of the stupid examples you are giving just because people partake in bad behavior or criminal behavior even doesn't mean there should be no laws against such and we should just let big corps get in on the action.

I mean seriously if you bet playing in a poker game with your friends in your home or over a game of chess in the park that's one thing and VASTLY different than some big corporation or other big business doing it and even to the point the pay specialists to come up with ways specifically target vulnerable people and bypass existing laws.

It's pretty bloody simple...you want to gamble go to a casino, you want to see stripper and get drunk go to the nearest strip club.... screaming ..."ohhhhhh but MA libirtieeeeessss" is sad malarky.

The gaming industry has proven itself unable to regulate itself just like the gambling industry has, just like the firearms and liquor industry has so it should be regulated as well.

It's about bad ideas that will lead to more bad ideas.

In the end, nothing good will come trying to outlaw Loot boxes, something else will be put in, so all that will happen is the flavor of the poison will change, nothing will get 'better'. As others have said, the people here are just anti-lootbox, they don't care about the addictive issues and others things that happen in games, so this is not about children, this is not about predatory practices, this not about addictions, this... this right here.. is purely about them not liking that flavor of poison that Lootboxes are, but they are still willing to drink poison none the less.

It is predatory and its about scum bag companies targeting kids.

These games are full of kids.

Eldurian

laserit said:

Ungood said:

It's about bad ideas that will lead to more bad ideas.

In the end, nothing good will come trying to outlaw Loot boxes, something else will be put in, so all that will happen is the flavor of the poison will change, nothing will get 'better'. As others have said, the people here are just anti-lootbox, they don't care about the addictive issues and others things that happen in games, so this is not about children, this is not about predatory practices, this not about addictions, this... this right here.. is purely about them not liking that flavor of poison that Lootboxes are, but they are still willing to drink poison none the less.

It is predatory and its about scum bag companies targeting kids.

These games are full of kids.

What that gave that away to you? The cranky middle aged men who inhabit these forums or the cranky middle aged men who inhabit every MMO you play?

This narrative of MMOs being for kids exists purely in your own minds and is backed up by absolutely nothing.