World of Warcraft - Battle for Azeroth’s Progression Problem - MMORPG.com

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World of Warcraft - Battle for Azeroth’s Progression Problem - MMORPG.com

Let me preface this: Battle for Azeroth may very well be the pinnacle of story and zone design in World of Warcraft’s 14-year history. I’ve loved almost every bit of questing and dungeon content, and I’m actually reading the quests for the first time in years. But there’s a big glaring issue that’s increasingly clear the more I play – it never feels like your character is growing or making progress in this expansion.

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Avanah

Well said! Exactly how I feel. I have an Alliance 120 Hunter and I feel like leveling a Horde from 1-120 just for the Quests/Story.

JeffSpicoli

At first i thought i loved level scaling now I'm starting to hate it. I also miss zone progression, I like hitting a certain level and saying ok so & so is up next.

kitarad

I just started levelling one horde and one alliance character too for this.

dragonlee66

I was kicking butt at 117 then at 120 the same mob kicked my butt I feel like a wet noodle

JeroKane

The problem is that when you level up, everything around you (mobs, etc) level up alongside you. Diminishing the feel of any progression.
This is the downside of questing and leveling in every zone you like. It doesn't fit really well in a Themepark level based MMO like WoW.

It's different when you have an MMO without a level based system, but with a good horizontal progression.

There is practically no horizontal progression in WoW, since there are no new Talents and so far the Azerite feats you unlock in each Azerite armor piece so far feel underwhelming, further enhancing the feel of diminished progression.

Theocritus

Avanah said:

Well said! Exactly how I feel. I have an Alliance 120 Hunter and I feel like leveling a Horde from 1-120 just for the Quests/Story.

1-120 sounds painful.

6stack_Chris

I can tell you, once you hit 120 and get the gear to run heroic and mythic dungeons the game, as far as PVE goes, opens up! This expansion has been a blast, and right now the dungeons are really fun. Once you add in the difficulty of heroic and mythics to them, they really get interesting.

Want some more fun, turn on world PvP and join a group who is out seeking a good fight. Eventually, it turns into a zerg vs. zerg, but the fun does not stop there.

The only main complaint of mine for any of the systems is crafting. I have been a Skinng and LW main since vanilla and it has never felt so half baked in any expansion than it does right now.

I do agree on the whole feel a bit weaker the more you level up, but current gear (340+) starts to fix that issue.

Keep chuggin' along, there is so much of the game that opens at 120.

JeroKane

6stack_Chris said:

The only main complaint of mine for any of the systems is crafting. I have been a Skinng and LW main since vanilla and it has never felt so half baked in any expansion than it does right now.

Yeah. It's really dissapointing so far really. Especially cooking takes the cake.

Legion food: recover 34k Health
BfA food: recover 24k Health

Ehhm ok....Why would anyone cook BfA food again?

Gravend

Ya fresh 120 stuff was hard as it should be. As you gear up content is almost too easy yet again. My ilvl is 342 now and I'm crushing group mobs now as frost dk. So buck up, play the game, and enjoy the difficulty that people have complained for in the first place when they say wow is too easy ffs. A game with true no character progression is guild wars 2 as an example of a no character progression system. Once you're maxed you're maxed forever for years now.

Riannes

I like this expansion. But...

"I will say this for those who worried about my love of followers and missions: they’re definitely downplayed this expansion. They help with Azerite Power collection, gold and reputation gains, but that’s basically it. They are not very necessary to keep tabs on at all in order to progress the content."

Please remove it. We dont need mini games. Better use development resources to improve the main features.

I would also like Flying to be removed from BfA contents. World feel alive again (after so long) and world pvp just got more interesting. I think Flying for previous expansions is fine but for latest one, lets not have it.

Gravend

I agree Rianes, flying will ruin the magic of war mode.

Xiaoki

The scaling hits different classes harder than others.

Mobs not only scale with level but also item level. Which they tried in Legion but after a revolt from players quickly removed. I guess they figured they could sneak in this time without anyone noticing.

FrodoFragins

Xiaoki said:

The scaling hits different classes harder than others.



Mobs not only scale with level but also item level. Which they tried in Legion but after a revolt from players quickly removed. I guess they figured they could sneak in this time without anyone noticing.

hmm that's a crummy thing to do. Scaling has it's place, but it doesn't belong in the current expansions content imo

Octagon7711

Characters shouldn't feel like they lost anything the higher they level.

Leiloni

I definitely felt progression as I leveled my Pally and even more so at 120. Systems get expanded and open up more when you hit 120. Dungeons, which you can do normals of as you level, are a lot of fun. Island Expeditions are an interesting 3 person instance with a fun challenge and once you max our your "bar" for the week by doing a few of them, you get a massive 2500 point boost to your Azerite Power. After a certain point (maybe 13 or 14 Azerite level) you get a quest from Magni Bronzebeard where he increases the item level on your necklace.

That in turn is needed to wear the higher level Azerite gear. Higher level Azerite gear has better stats (i.e. higher numbers) on it of the same talents you've seen while leveling, and in turn requires higher Azerite levels to unlock those stats.

Then you do your War Campaign which takes you to the enemy faction zones through a series of quests. You also need to do your Honorbound/7th Legion faction rep to complete that War Campaign, and that, too takes you to the enemy faction zones.

Someone mentioned PvP and when you turn on Warmode new quests open up for you to do, which have made for some fun PvP in the zones they happen in. There have even been lots of players forming PvP groups for things in the group finder and in communities.

I'm 1 ilevel away from Heroic dungeons so that should be fun once I get there. I could go on and on since I feel like there's an insane amount of content I'm working on right now and even more ahead of me. Definitely been having fun and feeling like I'm progressing through the content as I go, getting new systems and new content opened up, making myself more powerful, etc.

Gravarg

Scaling isn't bad for pre-BFA areas, but in the BFA areas mobs become harder (more HP and a lot more DPS) as you level up. Once you get 120 it is hard to kill anything, and if you accidently pull 3 mobs, you run. That is until you start to get into Heroic and Mythic Dungeons and start getting your ilvl up. My 355 Monk has no problem with mobs and can now 2-3 shot them, but when I first hit 120, it was a fight to the death for every single mob.

MadFrenchie

Yea, considering the only "unlocks" we're getting are passive buffs through Azerite armor, it does feel like progression is stunted in this expansion despite adding 10 new levels.

The world design has been incredible, which has kept me playing.  We'll see once I hit 120 on my 4 primary toons.  From there, I'm gonna delve hard into the Warfronts and see how I enjoy those activities.  I only dabble in Mythic dungeons currently.

MadFrenchie

Also, I've noticed my secondary stats decrease significantly at every ding.  The ramp up on stats per level is pretty significant.

It's showing a big downside with regards to level scaling.  You shouldn't level to find the same mobs you just fought harder at your new level.

SlyLoK

What happened to just paying a subscription fee to get the game now? Did they follow through on that?

Arskaaa

cancelled sub 4 day ago. new zones/dungeons are very nicely done and game music is 10/10 too.
but the gameplay.... oh boy. scaling just horrible system. i never feel stronger i level and even in max lvl u feel same way too.

classes been tuned a lot button smash. dungeon finder have 30-60 min queu as dps, lack of tanks. playing as feral druid (yep most weak spect in game atm) so i may have bitter taste...

i sorta knew tis expansion dont hook me up, there is nothing new gameplay wise.
expedition island was great idea but lack any real reward (gear duh).

if u totally new to WoW u will love tis mmo but as WoW veteran... i expected more.

gonna check WoW later after 3-6 months if its any difrend/tuned. PoE league inc:) oops! forgot new race. u cant play them if u dont grind rep for weeks/months. Very gated content.

Leiloni

Gravarg said:

Scaling isn't bad for pre-BFA areas, but in the BFA areas mobs become harder (more HP and a lot more DPS) as you level up. Once you get 120 it is hard to kill anything, and if you accidently pull 3 mobs, you run. That is until you start to get into Heroic and Mythic Dungeons and start getting your ilvl up. My 355 Monk has no problem with mobs and can now 2-3 shot them, but when I first hit 120, it was a fight to the death for every single mob.

This is definitely class specific. Running around the world as a Ret Pally I don't have any problems at all.

Leiloni

SlyLoK said:

What happened to just paying a subscription fee to get the game now? Did they follow through on that?

It's to get you everything before the current expansion. But that's more of a marketing campaign because previously you could get an edition of WoW that included everything prior to the current expac for $20 and a free 1 month sub. Now instead of buying that, you just buy one month sub. You only save $5 from the previous offer. But you have always had to purchase the current expac and you still do.

MadFrenchie

Leiloni said:

Gravarg said:

Scaling isn't bad for pre-BFA areas, but in the BFA areas mobs become harder (more HP and a lot more DPS) as you level up. Once you get 120 it is hard to kill anything, and if you accidently pull 3 mobs, you run. That is until you start to get into Heroic and Mythic Dungeons and start getting your ilvl up. My 355 Monk has no problem with mobs and can now 2-3 shot them, but when I first hit 120, it was a fight to the death for every single mob.

This is definitely class specific. Running around the world as a Ret Pally I don't have any problems at all.

I think it's a general stat scaling problem, but affects some classes more than others.  My Ret Paladin has always been pretty damn good at PvE because we have a lot of great tool for it- solo PvE generally isn't a matter of one-shot danger from mobs, so having high DPS along with solid healing/shields make us very well-equipped to handle PvE content.

With that said though, my Destro Lock has been pwning as hard or harder than my Ret Pally. /shrug

meonthissite

"It’s a neat idea, and I like the basis of it so far, but Azerite Armor is only available in 3 slots, and as I’ve leveled up and gotten new armor the amount of powers within each armor piece has been roughly the same across each new piece with tiny variations. It’s the beginnings of a good system, but one that feels half-fleshed out. I’m hoping there are more additions/tweaks to it in the coming post-expansion patches."

Great article! I agree with this point I have too many pieces with the same abilities on them. I also would like more options for more armor pieces in more slots and more skills.

spidii

Well said, I'm all the way through "end-game" having completed each mythic dungeon multiple times and seen all the content that is currently offered but the one thing that bothered me while leveling two characters is the sense of progression. I thought the exact same thing, "why am I leveling"? I'm not getting stronger, I'm getting weaker and not only that but I have no new skills to show for it.

They removed the Artifact weapon skill, they could have added one back for the leveling process or a new talent tier or something.

All that said, everything else has been awesome. Great expand but this is the only expansion that I've felt leveling to feel unrewarding and therefore a slog.