If all you wanna be's don't like easy, why aren't the hard mmo's smash hits?
I moved the answer to this question to a new topic. It seems marketing needs to be explained every day !
What is the share of the games you call MMORPGs (they are not, what they should be, but anyway)? All these games combined have far less players than LoL or Fortnite alone. Your idea about the marketing is simply delusional. Most players play for the challenge, and the highest challenge is the PvP. Solo players are a small minority on the MMO market. Here we should make the difference between easy and easy. Most players like the risk, and hate the grind, but dislike to wait, to have hardware or software disadvantages and etc. They want challenging, but easy multiplayer gameplay.
PVPers are by far the minority. Solo players are by far the majority of MMO players. THey want challenging but easy? That doesnt even make sense
PVPers are by far the minority. Solo players are by far the majority of MMO players. THey want challenging but easy? That doesnt even make sense
LoL vs WoW - obvious fact. PvP players are the huge majority of the MMO players and that is pretty logical.
Stream of consciousness random associations? What does LoL vs. WoW have to do with PvP vs. PvE players in WoW or any other MMORPG for that matter?
It's not like MOBAs or FPS games outperforming MMOs is even a new thing. You do know that Doom had > 10 million unique players in its first two years in 1993 don't you? MMOs have always lagged way behind the hottest FPS of the day throughout their history. But what does that have to do with MMO players preferring PvE over PvP?
If you actually want some evidence of what MMO players prefer just take a look at any MMO that offers both PvE and PvP servers and count each type. If you have played MMOs for the past 10-15 years you should be able to easily figure out that those PvE servers outnumber the PvP ones by a very large number.
Or you can just base it on your PvP faith I suppose.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I personally played those so called easy mmorpg. People may ask why play those mmorpg, it is so easy. The hard part isn't just to play it. The hard part is play the game "efficiently".
For example there's a game with dungeon so easy it is very beatable by pretty much everyone. But the hard part is to finish it fast. If you can complete that dungeon 4 times in an hour you can make 20 gold. But if you can only compete it 1 time an hour you make 5 gold. 20 gold > 5 gold. That is the fun part, to do things efficiently. And it is not easy to play it efficiently.
And quite honestly, almost all the players in those so called easy mmorpg are grinders. They just keep grinding and grinding. And try to compete on how to grind more efficiently.
PVPers are by far the minority. Solo players are by far the majority of MMO players. THey want challenging but easy? That doesnt even make sense
LoL vs WoW - obvious fact. PvP players are the huge majority of the MMO players and that is pretty logical. Most people play multiplayer games to compete and cooperate, so to play with other players. They do not go in the MMOs to hit mobs with or without AI.
Not even remotely true. You are either looking through your own "rose colored glasses", making it up for shits and giggles or are completely out of touch with anything beyond the reach of your fingers.
I'll add that I think you have a very specific way of looking at the world and that's the only way you can look at the world.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I am playing Ark Survival Evolved on the beginner server and I cram play on weekends when there is 2x node drops. So yeah I like it easier. But I will not join an UnOfficial server with mods cause way to easy, ya know?
Not even remotely true. You are either looking through your own "rose colored glasses", making it up for shits and giggles or are completely out of touch with anything beyond the reach of your fingers.
I'll add that I think you have a very specific way of looking at the world and that's the only way you can look at the world.
You are the one with the glasses. If a player goes from WoW to LoL he stops to be a player? There are close to a billion online players worldwide. How many play the games you call MMORPGs? That are the facts. You may ignore them. But most people hate the solo grind. It is even completely automatized in the new mobile MMOs. You may be afk - the game plays itself till you decide to PvP. Even the idea to go into multiplayer game to play solo sounds ridiculous in general. WoW is the biggest so called MMORPG now, and it has a market share around 0,5%.
Then you need to restate that as your statement:
PvP players are the huge majority of the MMO players who moved from World of Warcraft ..." as your statment makes it seem like you are saying "pvp players are the majority of MMO players"
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
PVPers are by far the minority. Solo players are by far the majority of MMO players. THey want challenging but easy? That doesnt even make sense
LoL vs WoW - obvious fact. PvP players are the huge majority of the MMO players and that is pretty logical.
Stream of consciousness random associations? What does LoL vs. WoW have to do with PvP vs. PvE players in WoW or any other MMORPG for that matter?
It's not like MOBAs or FPS games outperforming MMOs is even a new thing. You do know that Doom had > 10 million unique players in its first two years in 1993 don't you? MMOs have always lagged way behind the hottest FPS of the day throughout their history. But what does that have to do with MMO players preferring PvE over PvP?
If you actually want some evidence of what MMO players prefer just take a look at any MMO that offers both PvE and PvP servers and count each type. If you have played MMOs for the past 10-15 years you should be able to easily figure out that those PvE servers outnumber the PvP ones by a very large number.
Or you can just base it on your PvP faith I suppose.
In the biggest mmorpg, WoW, the pvp servers always had the largest populations.
There is no question what gamers want today. It’s pvp. Any mmorpg without a PvP focus will lose money, fail.
ESO started with 1/3 of its entire game world as pvp. Take out cities and the percentage goes much higher. PvP was literally the heart of the game.
Wildstar focused on quests and raids with nothing but a couple battlegrounds.
Both games launched around the same time, months apart. Both games were plagued with tons of bugs at launch.
One is thriving and one is dead. Which one do you think it is?
Do I need to even mention the tail of GW2 and and TSW? For those who don’t know, the exact same scenario as above.
PVPers are by far the minority. Solo players are by far the majority of MMO players. THey want challenging but easy? That doesnt even make sense
LoL vs WoW - obvious fact. PvP players are the huge majority of the MMO players and that is pretty logical.
Stream of consciousness random associations? What does LoL vs. WoW have to do with PvP vs. PvE players in WoW or any other MMORPG for that matter?
It's not like MOBAs or FPS games outperforming MMOs is even a new thing. You do know that Doom had > 10 million unique players in its first two years in 1993 don't you? MMOs have always lagged way behind the hottest FPS of the day throughout their history. But what does that have to do with MMO players preferring PvE over PvP?
If you actually want some evidence of what MMO players prefer just take a look at any MMO that offers both PvE and PvP servers and count each type. If you have played MMOs for the past 10-15 years you should be able to easily figure out that those PvE servers outnumber the PvP ones by a very large number.
Or you can just base it on your PvP faith I suppose.
In the biggest mmorpg, WoW, the pvp servers always had the largest populations.
There is no question what gamers want today. It’s pvp. Any mmorpg without a PvP focus will lose money, fail.
ESO started with 1/3 of its entire game world as pvp. Take out cities and the percentage goes much higher. PvP was literally the heart of the game.
Wildstar focused on quests and raids with nothing but a couple battlegrounds.
Both games launched around the same time, months apart. Both games were plagued with tons of bugs at launch.
One is thriving and one is dead. Which one do you think it is?
Do I need to even mention the tail of GW2 and and TSW? For those who don’t know, the exact same scenario as above.
As I've said many times before, I enjoy MMORPG PvP and do it a lot in games that do it right... like ESO, DAoC, etc. But thinking we're the majority of MMO players is just plain delusional.
People like quickie PvPish scenarios with throw away characters or pre-defined "heroes" especially if everyone is playing in a more or less even playing field. That's not an RPG thing, it's an FPS thing even if some MMOs starting with WOW imported that into MMORPGs as additional game play.
That's what makes LoL, Overwatch and Fortnite hugely popular especially with the young. Unlike RPGs those are not genres where you spend a lot of time and effort just building your character. That takes a whole other level of enjoyment to do, that has nothing to do with the LoLs and Fortnites of the gaming world and it's actually best suited to long term, 24/7, endless battles with large groups than the 1v1, 4v4 or free for all of the quickie FPS games that are all the rage these days.
Those games are just showing like they always have that the majority of gamers enjoy quick session play instead of what MMORPGs offer. Nothing else to see there.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
GW2 is far more a legit and real MMO then Linage 2 will ever be.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
GW2 is far more a legit and real MMO then Linage 2 will ever be.
Based on what?
I played L2 for over 4.5 years and it was a far more impressive "mmo" than Guild Wars 2.
My personal feels, of course.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I personally played those so called easy mmorpg. People may ask why play those mmorpg, it is so easy. The hard part isn't just to play it. The hard part is play the game "efficiently".
For example there's a game with dungeon so easy it is very beatable by pretty much everyone. But the hard part is to finish it fast. If you can complete that dungeon 4 times in an hour you can make 20 gold. But if you can only compete it 1 time an hour you make 5 gold. 20 gold > 5 gold. That is the fun part, to do things efficiently. And it is not easy to play it efficiently.
And quite honestly, almost all the players in those so called easy mmorpg are grinders. They just keep grinding and grinding. And try to compete on how to grind more efficiently.
Some people just need a conveyor line. This is not fun - it is a boring grind. Obviously you play for the delusional idea of effective progression, that makes you feel effective person.
There are such a people even in LoL. They PvE, often in JG so solo, and they do literally nothing to lvl 15 or even 18. So if your team hold the lanes 4 vs 5, the PvE grinder comes strong and wins. From 170 wins in LoL maybe happened twice. Lost many games cause such noobs - they play a MMO like they play their solo focused games. In a really competitive and cooperative game this is completely ineffective. So you do not play easy MMORPG, in fact you do not play a MMORPG.
As much as you want to degrade me. Majority of people playing mmorpg are grinders. The ideal of getting bigger sword to slay bigger dragon for bigger sword is the foundation in the design of most mmorpg.
Even in ffapvp games it is the same. You have those who try to gank people to get better loot and you have safe zone sheep who farm for better loot. Getting better loot is the foundation of those games. And figuring out how to get better loot the most efficiently is what make the game interesting.
You know why. Because people aren't looking for difficult. People live through difficult in their daily lives. They are looking to relax and have fun without turning off their brains completely like they would watching tv.
PvP players are the huge majority of the MMO players who moved from World of Warcraft ..." as your statment makes it seem like you are saying "pvp players are the majority of MMO players"
ESO started with 1/3 of its entire game world as pvp. Take out cities and the percentage goes much higher. PvP was literally the heart of the game.
Cyrodiil is approx. the size of three regular zones, and at release, you had 5 zones per faction, for a total or 15. So even if you count that way, it was only 20% of the total PvE area, or 1/6 (16%) of the total world, half of what you are pretending. Also, it didn't have Imperial City content at release, which was added in a later DLC.
If ESO, WoW or GW2 are, so why not? LoL and Fotnite are massive, certainly multiplayer - so massively multiplayer - by the definition of some people here, and online. LoL has literally every element that WoW has.
And LoL and Fortnite are defined as MMOs by the industry.
A massively multiplayer online game is an online game with large numbers of players, typically from hundreds to thousands, on the same server - this is the definition of a MMO.
If WoW is a MMO, LoL is also such. Sorry.
Listen Ikcin ..
Remember when you were telling us all that Wow was not an MMORPG ...
And then we showed you all the reasons it was an MMORPG ...
And you agreed .............
All the reasons that make Wow an MMORPG are the reasons that LoL and Fortnite are not ..
As much as you want to degrade me. Majority of people playing mmorpg are grinders. The ideal of getting bigger sword to slay bigger dragon for bigger sword is the foundation in the design of most mmorpg.
Even in ffapvp games it is the same. You have those who try to gank people to get better loot and you have safe zone sheep who farm for better loot. Getting better loot is the foundation of those games. And figuring out how to get better loot the most efficiently is what make the game interesting.
I agree, the most players who play the games you call MMORPGs are there for the solo grind. What I say is, the multiplayer gameplay is lame, and the competition is delusional. So your idea for effectiveness too. If you play 2 hours per day, can you compete with somebody who plays 12 hours or started an year earlier? No. And this is the problem of every game with vertical long term progression. It simply cannot be multiplayer. And that is why every competitive game of this kind, even very well made like L2, fails. The rest are solo focused so much they hardly could be called MMOs.
You can grind in multiplay environment too. Like my previous example, I say I grind dungeon continuously which require 5 people. If you think I'm so brain dead that me playing with 5 people is called solo grind, that is fine too.
I do not think that WoW and LoL both are MMOs, but this is not important. You cannot change the criteria if you like or dislike something.
Hasn't stopped you.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
You are just playing solo.
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
It's not like MOBAs or FPS games outperforming MMOs is even a new thing. You do know that Doom had > 10 million unique players in its first two years in 1993 don't you? MMOs have always lagged way behind the hottest FPS of the day throughout their history. But what does that have to do with MMO players preferring PvE over PvP?
If you actually want some evidence of what MMO players prefer just take a look at any MMO that offers both PvE and PvP servers and count each type. If you have played MMOs for the past 10-15 years you should be able to easily figure out that those PvE servers outnumber the PvP ones by a very large number.
Or you can just base it on your PvP faith I suppose.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
For example there's a game with dungeon so easy it is very beatable by pretty much everyone. But the hard part is to finish it fast. If you can complete that dungeon 4 times in an hour you can make 20 gold. But if you can only compete it 1 time an hour you make 5 gold. 20 gold > 5 gold. That is the fun part, to do things efficiently. And it is not easy to play it efficiently.
And quite honestly, almost all the players in those so called easy mmorpg are grinders. They just keep grinding and grinding. And try to compete on how to grind more efficiently.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
There is no question what gamers want today. It’s pvp. Any mmorpg without a PvP focus will lose money, fail.
ESO started with 1/3 of its entire game world as pvp. Take out cities and the percentage goes much higher. PvP was literally the heart of the game.
Wildstar focused on quests and raids with nothing but a couple battlegrounds.
Both games launched around the same time, months apart. Both games were plagued with tons of bugs at launch.
One is thriving and one is dead. Which one do you think it is?
Do I need to even mention the tail of GW2 and and TSW? For those who don’t know, the exact same scenario as above.
People like quickie PvPish scenarios with throw away characters or pre-defined "heroes" especially if everyone is playing in a more or less even playing field. That's not an RPG thing, it's an FPS thing even if some MMOs starting with WOW imported that into MMORPGs as additional game play.
That's what makes LoL, Overwatch and Fortnite hugely popular especially with the young. Unlike RPGs those are not genres where you spend a lot of time and effort just building your character. That takes a whole other level of enjoyment to do, that has nothing to do with the LoLs and Fortnites of the gaming world and it's actually best suited to long term, 24/7, endless battles with large groups than the 1v1, 4v4 or free for all of the quickie FPS games that are all the rage these days.
Those games are just showing like they always have that the majority of gamers enjoy quick session play instead of what MMORPGs offer. Nothing else to see there.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Even in ffapvp games it is the same. You have those who try to gank people to get better loot and you have safe zone sheep who farm for better loot. Getting better loot is the foundation of those games. And figuring out how to get better loot the most efficiently is what make the game interesting.
your memory may be a bit off.
https://gameranx.com/updates/id/16676/article/the-size-of-the-elder-scrolls-online-s-world-calculated/