Who can relate? What hard is to me in MMORPGs.

Hawkaya399

Please don't be offended by this. I'm really just wondering how alone I am on this. I've posted in so many forums over the years and born witness to so many flames, I'm not interested at all in that. Try to keep a cool head here.

For me it's hard if I'm dying enough and feel like I'm struggling to win fights or do things in general. If it feels like it's not a struggle, I lose interest. Why fight for something if it's easy? If I see others struggling, it makes me feel like it's worth playing. If someone else says "Don't worry it's easier past level 10" then I lose interest. Worse still, if a guildie gives me a backpack full of superior equipment, I have to decline and it's like ripping my heart apart because the guildie is only trying to help. I lose interest.

Yet I'm always chasing the cookie. I always wnat to have better gear to be my best. I like to scour over all my options. The irony is if I have too many cookies hten I lose interest. It's not worth climinbg to the summit to get the cookie if cookies are everywhere. If there're no more cookies then there's no reason to play.

I don't like hand holding either. I hate automaps and radars and glowies. I like slow travel, as long as there're things to see and dangers to avoid. I prefer some fast travel like horses, ships and teleportation, but it has to be worked for and there still needsto be dangers (like fast moving monsters or teleportation mishaps). I hate hand outs. I like item degredation/repairing.

So mainly I want competition and for things to be hard to get. I like struggle.

I've always mostly played on ffa open world PvP servers  because if I don't then I lose interest faster. It's like the difference  between climbing a everyday hill and a big scary hill. If you're an avid climber, the commonplace one is less interesting and not as rewarding. When a mmo looks like it's everyday (re: easy), even if it's not grindy, i'll choose hte grindy one instead just because the grind itself can be a challenge to overcome. This isn't because I like grind, but because grind is an obstacle to fight against.

The problem in MMO's is simple. They're trying to be fun for everyone in a shared space. They try to make everyone feel like a hero. The trouble is if everyone is a hero then nobody is a hero. This goes back to my analogy to climbing the summit for the cookie. If cookies are everywhere then there's no point in doing the climb. You have to voluntarily ignore everybody else and play it like a singleplayer game to feel rewarded. The result is MMO's are becoming like single player games by reinforcing the personal quest over all else. Other players are a gimmick.

It's better to play a game where you're a peasant crushed underfoot by griefers in a grindfest of painful proportion then ti's to be a hero alone.

And frankly if I want a story I prefer reading books. Stories in games never work well on me because why use a computer if you're not going to interact? Stories aren't about interaction. They're diametrically opposed to the strongest feature computers have. They're set in stone and have to be meticulously crafted to maintain pace and coherence, especially when they have multiple paths. I say--for computers at least--set us free into a sandbox world and let US make hte story in our efforts to be king of the hill. Many stories can be written about our trials and tribulations. Many things can be felt in the losses and victories. It doesn't have to be premade. It's the human imagination unleashed in natural impulses, wrapped in desire, pain and self sacrifice.

And I've lived this. I don't speak as a third party. I've been there and done that. And I'd never trade it for a premade story. My story has many warts and pains. I was angry and hurt just as much as I smiled. I probablyu lost as much as I gained. I never became king. I don't think I ever graduated from peasant first class. That's not what matters. It's the journey I came to love. I didn't dwell on the summit, but it helped make it meaningful. I admired those higher up the mountain than me. I admired those below me. It was pure magic. Mere words do not do it justice. It was alive.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Hawkaya399

blueturtle13 said:

No I can't really relate to be honest. I like to be inserted into stories. To experience them almost first person

These're all my opinions. When I say computers are best at enabling us to interact and change things instead of relaying a story, it's just my opinion. They're perfectly capable of giving us a story and immersing us in it as much as we want. And don't get me wrong, I've played my share of story-based games. I liked Anachronox. More than anything, I like the philosophy and different perspectives, and the unique places in the world. One of my favorites was something a NoxGuard said "Makes you wonder if you'll be ready when your number is up. Will you have lived hte life you wanted to live?" The game had a lot of heart and investment of time. I never played it multiple ways to see the other paths, but I think I can understand maybe why some people do that. It's not the typical game I've craved for in the past, but I did enjoy it. And as I stated in my OP, I do like to read. Right now I'm reading Boogeymen by Mel Gilden. It's a ripoff of the old TNG TV series.

Kyleran

So to the OP, you are currently playing?

LiF, Albion Online or perhaps Worlds Adrift?

iixviiiix

Well , depend . For example you play rogue classes and have to go though the dungeon without spot by the enemies , and once they hit you , you get ganged and return to start point lol .

I once play like that , my DPS are too weak to push the monster and the object is in the end of dungeon , take few time and some luck to finish it solo .

Or playing healer where the idiots run around and you have to keep the party alive . Or being a tank that lure too much mobs and have to stay a live while keep the mobs hit you and not chase your team mates .

MMO can be easy , but can be very hard .

Cryomatrix

I think i get the OP. You want a challenge and you want the result of success to be limited.

The same thing happens to me in path of exile. I get a character to a high level and then i lose interest when i get there. It doesnt happen often because i play hardcore.

But im similar in a way. No game has done that for me since diablo 2 hardcore in 2000. 

You could try setting challenges for yourself in hard games. Like in WoW or some easy MMO see how high you can get without dying or in path of exile, i sometimes play HC solo self found so i cant trade with people. I use what i find.

Lithuanian

Well, you and me are on the other side of barricades. I do enjoy "easy mode" with glows and "don't worry, after lvl.NN you are godlike".
However:
I would reccomend Istaria for you. Yes, it's pay-to-play now.
First:no glowing maps, arrows "go there for evil mob". Territories with enemy camps where even might Dragons died (Bloodskulks in early times).
Second: Dying is easy, death penalties accumulate (can be overcome by consuming food). Just - no death from falling even from highest rock.
Third: slow travel. There are teleporters, but most way you travel. Road gives +bonus, overburden gives -bonus...and no mounts. Yeap, go by foot all the way.
I would also mention "ninja-helping". A feeling I experienced. A plot with structures that needs materials to be added. I keep running, depositing stuff in my vault, then adding one by one - one pretty moment structure appears. I aided it. Others aided it. Plot owner happy, community happy.

Cryomatrix gave wise advice: roleplay. Imagine yourself a half-brave adventurer who travels by days (at night you must sleep), must stop for food and toilet, ask strangers about directions...and if you die, it's over, delete toon, start over. Some folks do it in Lotro.

Kyleran

DMKano said:

I can relate to the story part - for me they dont work in MMOs, since NPCs act as if you are the only player in the game.

Stories work great in single player games though, since you are the only one - the hero storyline actually makes sense.

As far as challenging and difficulty - single player games offer much more challenging gameplay.

MMOs rarely have any difficult content as they are made to cater to masses.

But social aspects > MMOs win - that's why I play them, been playing MMOs with the same group of friends for over 15 years now

I dunno why, but I imagine your group of friends being very much like all of those guys that assisted Wonder Woman through the wastelands of the WWI battlefront.

Cheers 

Scorchien

OP should be playing Eve and or UO ,  best options for what he wants ...

ConstantineMerus

Kyleran said:

DMKano said:

I can relate to the story part - for me they dont work in MMOs, since NPCs act as if you are the only player in the game.

Stories work great in single player games though, since you are the only one - the hero storyline actually makes sense.

As far as challenging and difficulty - single player games offer much more challenging gameplay.

MMOs rarely have any difficult content as they are made to cater to masses.

But social aspects > MMOs win - that's why I play them, been playing MMOs with the same group of friends for over 15 years now

I dunno why, but I imagine your group of friends being very much like all of those guys that assisted Wonder Woman through the wastelands of the WWI battlefront.

Cheers 

Or just like you

delete5230

@Hawkaya399,
Your not completely alone but close.  Many of the real mmorpg players had given up, therefore not here to relate.  There are thousands if not millions.  There still around just not here. 

Most here are "commercialized online players" that CAN'T relate.  What group is larger would be impossible to gauge.  It's like the blue group was replaced by the green, it's as simple as that.  

Lets not leave out the fact of potential players that would enjoy a real mmorpg, I'm sure their in the millions too ! 


Here's proof, 
Recently I made a post about "who likes easy?".  
Games online are so in-your-face combat easy where you gather the entire zone and wipe them out in a single blow that I didn't even mention what I meant about easy.....I assumed it was a given, but not for this games online group, they went on and on about hard jumping puzzles and stupid stuff like that ! 

They truly don't see a problem !!! 


Nothing for the mmorpg player.  I've been watching several World of Warcraft reviews and playthroughs.  Nothing EVER about playing with others, its all about self improving features and what you can get for your character.... It's sad. 


Don't feel bad, your just a blue group player trying to hang on at mmorpg.com among the green group crowed that replaced the mmorpg players.  There are millions of us, just not here !  

Kyleran

ConstantineMerus said:

Kyleran said:

DMKano said:

I can relate to the story part - for me they dont work in MMOs, since NPCs act as if you are the only player in the game.

Stories work great in single player games though, since you are the only one - the hero storyline actually makes sense.

As far as challenging and difficulty - single player games offer much more challenging gameplay.

MMOs rarely have any difficult content as they are made to cater to masses.

But social aspects > MMOs win - that's why I play them, been playing MMOs with the same group of friends for over 15 years now

I dunno why, but I imagine your group of friends being very much like all of those guys that assisted Wonder Woman through the wastelands of the WWI battlefront.

Cheers 

Or just like you

Naw, I'm an EVE player who joins groups which are more like the Crazy 88s from Kill Bill.  

Full of faceless, largely expendable warriors which don't even get named in the credits.

I'm not at all like Kano, I never play a game because my friends do, I just make new ones in whatever game I chose to play.

ConstantineMerus

Kyleran said:

ConstantineMerus said:

Kyleran said:

DMKano said:

I can relate to the story part - for me they dont work in MMOs, since NPCs act as if you are the only player in the game.

Stories work great in single player games though, since you are the only one - the hero storyline actually makes sense.

As far as challenging and difficulty - single player games offer much more challenging gameplay.

MMOs rarely have any difficult content as they are made to cater to masses.

But social aspects > MMOs win - that's why I play them, been playing MMOs with the same group of friends for over 15 years now

I dunno why, but I imagine your group of friends being very much like all of those guys that assisted Wonder Woman through the wastelands of the WWI battlefront.

Cheers 

Or just like you

Naw, I'm an EVE player who joins groups which are more like the Crazy 88s from Kill Bill.  

Full of faceless, largely expendable warriors which don't even get named in the credits.

I'm not at all like Kano, I never play a game because my friends do, I just make new ones in whatever game I chose to play.

Lol. But jokes aside, I'm pretty much like you. I guess spending long durations of time in Nullsec changes a man.

But hey, I'm looking forward to play a game with you one day. Let's hope one of these MMOs gets released before the zombie apocalypse. 

ConstantineMerus

DMKano said:

Kyleran said:

DMKano said:

I can relate to the story part - for me they dont work in MMOs, since NPCs act as if you are the only player in the game.

Stories work great in single player games though, since you are the only one - the hero storyline actually makes sense.

As far as challenging and difficulty - single player games offer much more challenging gameplay.

MMOs rarely have any difficult content as they are made to cater to masses.

But social aspects > MMOs win - that's why I play them, been playing MMOs with the same group of friends for over 15 years now

I dunno why, but I imagine your group of friends being very much like all of those guys that assisted Wonder Woman through the wastelands of the WWI battlefront.

Cheers 

Sort of - lol 

There's a bass player who works for a game company, a drummer who works for a different game company, a lawyer (everyone needs one of those), a cop, a research scientist (molecular biology)

Pretty good mix of skills

Guess which one is Kano and win a trip to the Canary Islands.

Kyleran

ConstantineMerus said:

DMKano said:

Kyleran said:

DMKano said:

I can relate to the story part - for me they dont work in MMOs, since NPCs act as if you are the only player in the game.

Stories work great in single player games though, since you are the only one - the hero storyline actually makes sense.

As far as challenging and difficulty - single player games offer much more challenging gameplay.

MMOs rarely have any difficult content as they are made to cater to masses.

But social aspects > MMOs win - that's why I play them, been playing MMOs with the same group of friends for over 15 years now

I dunno why, but I imagine your group of friends being very much like all of those guys that assisted Wonder Woman through the wastelands of the WWI battlefront.

Cheers 

Sort of - lol 

There's a bass player who works for a game company, a drummer who works for a different game company, a lawyer (everyone needs one of those), a cop, a research scientist (molecular biology)

Pretty good mix of skills

Guess which one is Kano and win a trip to the Canary Islands.

If he turns out to be the lawyer I'm going to ask Suzie to ban his account.

SplitStream13

delete5230 said:

@Hawkaya399,
Your not completely alone but close.  Many of the real mmorpg players had given up, therefore not here to relate.  There are thousands if not millions.  There still around just not here. 

Most here are "commercialized online players" that CAN'T relate.  What group is larger would be impossible to gauge.  It's like the blue group was replaced by the green, it's as simple as that.  

Lets not leave out the fact of potential players that would enjoy a real mmorpg, I'm sure their in the millions too ! 


Here's proof, 
Recently I made a post about "who likes easy?".  
Games online are so in-your-face combat easy where you gather the entire zone and wipe them out in a single blow that I didn't even mention what I meant about easy.....I assumed it was a given, but not for this games online group, they went on and on about hard jumping puzzles and stupid stuff like that ! 

They truly don't see a problem !!! 


Nothing for the mmorpg player.  I've been watching several World of Warcraft reviews and playthroughs.  Nothing EVER about playing with others, its all about self improving features and what you can get for your character.... It's sad. 


Don't feel bad, your just a blue group player trying to hang on at mmorpg.com among the green group crowed that replaced the mmorpg players.  There are millions of us, just not here !  

No man, those "real mmorpg" players didn't give up. They grew up. Some of them started families. Some of those have kids even and those kids are pre-school by now so if anyone is playing MMOs these days, it's the real mmorpg players' children that play them nowadays. 

Get real.

ConstantineMerus

Kyleran said:

ConstantineMerus said:

DMKano said:

Kyleran said:

DMKano said:

I can relate to the story part - for me they dont work in MMOs, since NPCs act as if you are the only player in the game.

Stories work great in single player games though, since you are the only one - the hero storyline actually makes sense.

As far as challenging and difficulty - single player games offer much more challenging gameplay.

MMOs rarely have any difficult content as they are made to cater to masses.

But social aspects > MMOs win - that's why I play them, been playing MMOs with the same group of friends for over 15 years now

I dunno why, but I imagine your group of friends being very much like all of those guys that assisted Wonder Woman through the wastelands of the WWI battlefront.

Cheers 

Sort of - lol 

There's a bass player who works for a game company, a drummer who works for a different game company, a lawyer (everyone needs one of those), a cop, a research scientist (molecular biology)

Pretty good mix of skills

Guess which one is Kano and win a trip to the Canary Islands.

If he turns out to be the lawyer I'm going to ask Suzie to ban his account.

That was my first guess. But I'm going with the drummer. One can dream, right?

deniter

In short, MMORPGs should be this:



..instead of this:

Cryomatrix

Speaking of lawyers, i have got jury duty today. I hear they never select any person who wears a Hawaiian shirt, so i have one on and i am wearing some fedora type hat with an unruly beard to look like a schmuck.

If my gaming laptop was smaller, id bring it to play civ 5 but oh well. 

TEKK3N

ConstantineMerus said:

DMKano said:

Sort of - lol 

There's a bass player who works for a game company, a drummer who works for a different game company, a lawyer (everyone needs one of those), a cop, a research scientist (molecular biology)

Pretty good mix of skills

Guess which one is Kano and win a trip to the Canary Islands.

He is the 6th one

Strado

I am the same like you, OP. I don't like being spoiled in games, because it ruins the purpose. And i have noticed this in real life too. I was born in a caring family, and my parents wanted to spoil me, but i always declined and was angry at them with doing that.
I know there are families out there who can't afford to be spoiled, and i would be happy to share everything i've had, but i don't value free things as much. Also i don't like shortcuts and secret deals that makes you further over the competition. It makes games boring, it makes real life boring. 
All of a sudden it makes sense why some rich people choose to raise their children without giving much money, only the information and some guidance, which makes it somewhat spoiling too.

And i have friends who are like "c'mon let's go, create an account we'll boost you up, give you a few mils, we'll talk on TS or discord, it will be fun"..  Yeah right...  I am a solo player, i like going through life alone, learning everything by myself, playing the games alone too. So i totally agree with you OP

Amaranthar

SplitStream13 said:

delete5230 said:

@Hawkaya399,
Your not completely alone but close.  Many of the real mmorpg players had given up, therefore not here to relate.  There are thousands if not millions.  There still around just not here. 

Most here are "commercialized online players" that CAN'T relate.  What group is larger would be impossible to gauge.  It's like the blue group was replaced by the green, it's as simple as that.  

Lets not leave out the fact of potential players that would enjoy a real mmorpg, I'm sure their in the millions too ! 


Here's proof, 
Recently I made a post about "who likes easy?".  
Games online are so in-your-face combat easy where you gather the entire zone and wipe them out in a single blow that I didn't even mention what I meant about easy.....I assumed it was a given, but not for this games online group, they went on and on about hard jumping puzzles and stupid stuff like that ! 

They truly don't see a problem !!! 


Nothing for the mmorpg player.  I've been watching several World of Warcraft reviews and playthroughs.  Nothing EVER about playing with others, its all about self improving features and what you can get for your character.... It's sad. 


Don't feel bad, your just a blue group player trying to hang on at mmorpg.com among the green group crowed that replaced the mmorpg players.  There are millions of us, just not here !  

No man, those "real mmorpg" players didn't give up. They grew up. Some of them started families. Some of those have kids even and those kids are pre-school by now so if anyone is playing MMOs these days, it's the real mmorpg players' children that play them nowadays. 

Get real.

No, I think there are a lot more old gamers who walked away than there are of the current sort.
And it's not because of real life issues, it's because of the types of games MMO's have become.
I also think a lot are playing MOBAs and other types of games just because that's been the new thing and done pretty well for what it is.

I do have to say that the term "real MMO players" is a bit of a falsehood, I mean what's an MMO?

I do believe that there is a huge mass of would-be MMO players who would be very interested in a world of adventure and excitement that's not made for all the easy-mode stuff and pure instant satisfaction. People used to talk about "sugar highs" in regards to MMO designs, and you don't hear that anymore. They've simply left the scene.

Lienhart

I went for a jog yesterday; I jog twice a week and lift heavy three times. 

During my jog, I saw a shadow approaching. At the pace it was going at, I assumed a bicycle. I did not see a wheel however. It then hit me; it wasn't a bicycle approaching, it was a fucking runner! And he was blazing fast. The speed at which he passed me at made me look like a fucking newbie. All of a sudden I had a burst of ambition and motivation to git gudder and let out the biggest smile as I admitted defeat and tried to increase my pace only to limp my ass back home. 

I haven't felt that way in years because I moved into the city and there is no competition here for physical prowess. Back in the boonies, I was one of the slowest and weakest, yet here in the heart of the city I can count the number of people stronger than me at my gym and haven't seen a runner like the above pass me for too long.

The story above pretty much sums up what happened with MMORPGs. Older MMORPGs were hard because they required cooperation,communication, and commitment. Remember skill chains in XI and the macros people used to alert others of what they were doing? Remember Lineage 2 and how gold farmers took over and some servers united as whole to fight back (I think we lost still lol)? It was also impossible to log on and get something done in 30 minutes.

Gaming went mainstream, and the bar to be competent was lowered as well. I went back to WoW recently and lasted 2 weeks before being bored out of my mind. Like you, I need a challenge. I need to be reminded that I fucking suck so I will push on; there is nothing worse than not having anything to challenge me. This is probably why MMORPGs took a back seat for me and FPS, RTS, and MOBAs took over.

Amathe

Mmorpg stories are seldom any good. It's like if I look out in my front yard and start making up things about what I see there. 

Long ago when the world was still young, a terrible rake came into power - aided by his daughter the fearful water hose. Together they conquered the verdant landscape and could not be opposed until one day, out of the ranks of simple peasantry, a brave young hero known as edge trimmer rose up to challenge them. 

There is definitely much to be said in favor of skipping this kind of nonsense and being allowed to make your own story as you go. 

Unfortunately, however, there are a lot of people whose idea of sadbox is shooting me in the head 5 seconds after I log in for the first time. 

Scot

Amathe said:

Mmorpg stories are seldom any good. It's like if I look out in my front yard and start making up things about what I see there. 

Long ago when the world was still young, a terrible rake came into power - aided by his daughter the fearful water hose. Together they conquered the verdant landscape and could not be opposed until one day, out of the ranks of simple peasantry, a brave young hero known as edge trimmer rose up to challenge them. 

There is definitely much to be said in favor of skipping this kind of nonsense and being allowed to make your own story as you go. 

Unfortunately, however, there are a lot of people whose idea of sadbox is shooting me in the head 5 seconds after I log in for the first time. 

If you don't bother to get writers doing the story, if you only inform the story team what's going to happen after the gameplay team has decided how the next dlc will play out (looking at WOW here) then you get crap story.

Also must have been a wee bit a bit tricky reading the text box as you are shot in the head.

Scot

I am thinking of getting all our "easy and difficult" threads together in the MMORPG.com arena and just let them slug it out. There can only be one!