Why haven't all the "NO" voters in the thread refunded yet? They don't, I believe, because there are hurdles to doing so. There is a social stigma with refunding. There is a self-honesty moment where you have to admit you were wrong and it's not really worth it. That creates a disconnect with the project and community so if you were still interested and hopeful, now you're an outsider which relates back to the social stigma.
My guess is much simpler.... that they never backed in the first place.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Why haven't all the "NO" voters in the thread refunded yet? They don't, I believe, because there are hurdles to doing so. There is a social stigma with refunding. There is a self-honesty moment where you have to admit you were wrong and it's not really worth it. That creates a disconnect with the project and community so if you were still interested and hopeful, now you're an outsider which relates back to the social stigma.
My guess is much simpler.... that they never backed in the first place.
Then your guess would be wrong, well, at least in my case.
While MJs policy is commendable, it wasn't there at KSer as far as I recall but was offered after dates slipped.
Regardless, I actually "donated" my money, never expecting anything in return unless and until the game actually launched.
Besides, gives me the "right" to hold them accountable until they eventually deliver.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Most backers have unrealistic expectations. This is no exception.
That's an ignorant statement to make. This game has been in development for what, 6 years now and it's probably going to take another 2 to get it out the door... you are getting close to a decade to make a video game.
Just to put things in perspective, Moore's law says that technology doubles every single year.. so a computer 8 years after they started will be 16x faster than when they started.
In 1961 John F. Kennedy set the goal of putting a man on the moon before the end of the decade and we did it in 1968.. but yet we can't build a video game in that timeframe?
Is it unrealistic for an investor to get a product shipped in less than 8 years.. why don't you go ask real investors their opinion of that?
The problem with crowdfunding is that there is no real pressure on these companies to get work DONE... and that is a significant problem. In a traditional environment, you have a set of investors that sit on a board and they meet every quarter to review progress being made. When progress starts to slow down they ask the hard questions and try to suggest solutions to get things back on track.. this is what pisses developers off because they perceive it as the board getting in the way.. the reality is in most cases it's the board that is trying to do whatever it can to move things along.
Without traditional investors and board companies will burn through money and produce nothing that can be delivered. So you want real expectations? No game should ever take more than 3 years to a released version out the door. Once you go beyond 3 years then you have real problems on your hands. That's the metric, apply it to any game.
Haven’t followed CU at all since backing it so decided to check which pledge I have. Turns out I have access to Beta 1 apparently. Is that happening right now? Might have to find out how to get my key then... lol
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Bit of an awkward one. If I had known it was going to take so long I probably wouldn't have backed but I don't resent doing so because of the refund plan and the way I feel the studio have been about the delays etc.
If they behaved like Cloud Imperium Games I would feel totally different.
I backed when it felt like they were supposed to have a core game loop with other additions coming. Still waiting on that to happen. I have not played in a long time.
Why haven't all the "NO" voters in the thread refunded yet? They don't, I believe, because there are hurdles to doing so. There is a social stigma with refunding. There is a self-honesty moment where you have to admit you were wrong and it's not really worth it. That creates a disconnect with the project and community so if you were still interested and hopeful, now you're an outsider which relates back to the social stigma.
My guess is much simpler.... that they never backed in the first place.
Typical gamer fanboy who thinks everyone who disagrees with him is just a hater. I put up $100 to back this game day one. If you would have told me the game would still be in early alpha May of 2019 I would have kept my money. And yes, despite what MJ says this game is very much in early alpha still. Not even close to release. I would bet on some type of bullshit early release by summer 2020. Still won't be complete though.
Haven’t followed CU at all since backing it so decided to check which pledge I have. Turns out I have access to Beta 1 apparently. Is that happening right now? Might have to find out how to get my key then... lol
/Cheers, Lahnmir
It is in beta 1 by name so you have access....don't expect it to feel like a beta though.
Haven’t followed CU at all since backing it so decided to check which pledge I have. Turns out I have access to Beta 1 apparently. Is that happening right now? Might have to find out how to get my key then... lol
/Cheers, Lahnmir
It is in beta 1 by name so you have access....don't expect it to feel like a beta though.
Thanks, going to give it a shot next week or so. I’ve been in plenty of real Alpha and Beta tests (not the commercial ones) so curious as to what the state of the game is.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Haven’t followed CU at all since backing it so decided to check which pledge I have. Turns out I have access to Beta 1 apparently. Is that happening right now? Might have to find out how to get my key then... lol
/Cheers, Lahnmir
It is in beta 1 by name so you have access....don't expect it to feel like a beta though.
Thanks, going to give it a shot next week or so. I’ve been in plenty of real Alpha and Beta tests (not the commercial ones) so curious as to what the state of the game is.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Well you'll probably find timing to be a challenge. Unlike most games in "beta" they still run limited test cycles, usually on weekdays during US business hours.
I don't believe they've yet stood up an always on test environment, but I haven't been following all that closely.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Haven’t followed CU at all since backing it so decided to check which pledge I have. Turns out I have access to Beta 1 apparently. Is that happening right now? Might have to find out how to get my key then... lol
/Cheers, Lahnmir
It is in beta 1 by name so you have access....don't expect it to feel like a beta though.
Thanks, going to give it a shot next week or so. I’ve been in plenty of real Alpha and Beta tests (not the commercial ones) so curious as to what the state of the game is.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Well you'll probably find timing to be a challenge. Unlike most games in "beta" they still run limited test cycles, usually on weekdays during US business hours.
I don't believe they've yet stood up an always on test environment, but I haven't been following all that closely.
Given there is an 7 to 8 hour time difference between the US and the Netherlands means it could be evening time for me when they run these events. That would be great tbh. Thanks for the info.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
The problem with a game that takes too long to create is often the tools "expire." You end up being a game built on version 2.1 tools when new things are on 4.0, and once you have a bunch of game made, upgrading the toolset becomes nearly impossible. That program you were coding for windows 98 now has to work on windows xp.
This isn't as big of an issue as it was when computers were doubling in speed every couple of years, and windows 10 is forever so things are somewhat more stable, but it still hurts your efforts.
Still, think of developing for the video cards that existed in 2013 and knowing they will have to work well on the 2020 versions.
That is some old fashioned thinking there. You sound like a crappy developer developing propiety software for a specific Windows (which btw, is typical for Windows, not for example linux).
This is no longer the case for developing a game. During development it is normal to keep developing the engine according to new graphical standards (if the developers think they are important) alongside developing the game.
Even if you use a 3rd party game engine like Unreal Engine or Unity to create your game, the upgrades can be applied. This can however cause delays. You can see that with Early Access games that use Unity or Unreal Engine when they move to a newer version of the engine.
I did not back CU at all , because i did not believe that MJ could deliver what he was selling in any kind of timeframe if at all , I saw enough of his doubletalk and backwalk in Warhammer online
Yes, I would have backed it knowing how
long it would take.
Provided of course, that I also
magically knew that all the other titles swirling around this space
in the same timeframe would be pathetic wannabes with no vision or
promise. If someone else had managed to do more with less, if I had
been impressed by any of the attempts from then to now, or if there
had been some massive innovation that made me change everything, I
would probably be very disappointed with my backing investment.
But there's almost no sting. Nothing
else has come along that could grab me for even a few days.
“Competitor” projects have scuttled and burned or at the very
least, hit the same roadblocks. I would be upset if someone else was
doing anything better, but right now it looks more like it broadly
Can't Be Done than any specific failure here.
If I had known my kids would get all
the way through school before seeing any new interesting title
actually complete, I may have become a console gamer though.
If they had made a smaller, easier, faster to develop game (i.e. cutting down the scope of the Kickstarter commitments), they'd have a 5% chance to make something great but could have it out by, say, 2016.
The route they're going is to aim for something great - something that isn't a cut-down version of their Kickstarter commitments. And they've got a 30% chance to actually make something great by, say, early 2021.
I'd rather they take a shot at something great and take the time they need (up to 9 years) to do it.
If they had made a smaller, easier, faster to develop game (i.e. cutting down the scope of the Kickstarter commitments), they'd have a 5% chance to make something great but could have it out by, say, 2016.
The route they're going is to aim for something great - something that isn't a cut-down version of their Kickstarter commitments. And they've got a 30% chance to actually make something great by, say, early 2021.
I'd rather they take a shot at something great and take the time they need (up to 9 years) to do it.
The game doesnt have PVE, so why is it taking it long develop?
The expectations for the game will only be that much higher for a game that is meant to be a pvp oriented game by making it take longer.
So i am curious on all the different systems that need more time to develop,
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Since i usually use common sense i wouldn't back it if it was the last game on earth. I don;t even like the term "back" the game.What you are doing since NON of your money is regulated,accounted for ,is simply handing free money to some person in this case Chris who did NOT need your free money.A rich person taking free handouts is imo pathetic.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Developers been making games for 50 years and will be another 50 years without ANY free handouts.I am sure Chris laughs all the way to the bank.
I find it even more pathetic that some people handed over free money to someone they really do NOT know but would likely turn down their best friends if they asked for free money.Hey give me some money,i want to buy a car,i'll let you ride in it sometimes but NO guarantee.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Most backers have unrealistic expectations. This is no exception.
That's an ignorant statement to make. This game has been in development for what, 6 years now and it's probably going to take another 2 to get it out the door... you are getting close to a decade to make a video game.
Just to put things in perspective, Moore's law says that technology doubles every single year.. so a computer 8 years after they started will be 16x faster than when they started.
In 1961 John F. Kennedy set the goal of putting a man on the moon before the end of the decade and we did it in 1968.. but yet we can't build a video game in that timeframe?
Is it unrealistic for an investor to get a product shipped in less than 8 years.. why don't you go ask real investors their opinion of that?
The problem with crowdfunding is that there is no real pressure on these companies to get work DONE... and that is a significant problem. In a traditional environment, you have a set of investors that sit on a board and they meet every quarter to review progress being made. When progress starts to slow down they ask the hard questions and try to suggest solutions to get things back on track.. this is what pisses developers off because they perceive it as the board getting in the way.. the reality is in most cases it's the board that is trying to do whatever it can to move things along.
Without traditional investors and board companies will burn through money and produce nothing that can be delivered. So you want real expectations? No game should ever take more than 3 years to a released version out the door. Once you go beyond 3 years then you have real problems on your hands. That's the metric, apply it to any game.
Wait, you mean if you don't have any system in place to hold the folks spending money accountable, they'll tend not to spend the money wisely?
Man, that sounds eerily similar to the reasoning I expounded upon a long time ago about why these crowdfunding campaigns should require a lot more honest, straightforward information from project creators geared towards creating an unbiased investment picture for potential backers. Do we really believe MJ, with his experience, was so poor at planning and estimating this project he was 200% off and counting on the estimate? Or do we believe they fudged the projected dates to help convince you to buy in? Does anyone think a traditional investor would stick around sinking money into a project that was taking 3x the estimate time to complete? Are we okay with being blatantly misled in marketing? I suppose so, if crowdfunding is any indication.
Since i usually use common sense i wouldn't back it if it was the last game on earth. I don;t even like the term "back" the game.What you are doing since NON of your money is regulated,accounted for ,is simply handing free money to some person in this case Chris who did NOT need your free money.A rich person taking free handouts is imo pathetic.
They at least allow you to refund the game if your not happy. Better than most
Shhh, Wiz is a bit confused, he thinks this is a SC thread....keeps mentioning Chris instead of MJ.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If they had made a smaller, easier, faster to develop game (i.e. cutting down the scope of the Kickstarter commitments), they'd have a 5% chance to make something great but could have it out by, say, 2016.
The route they're going is to aim for something great - something that isn't a cut-down version of their Kickstarter commitments. And they've got a 30% chance to actually make something great by, say, early 2021.
I'd rather they take a shot at something great and take the time they need (up to 9 years) to do it.
The game doesnt have PVE, so why is it taking it long develop?
The expectations for the game will only be that much higher for a game that is meant to be a pvp oriented game by making it take longer.
So i am curious on all the different systems that need more time to develop,
How long did they spend working on the game engine?
Are there no PvE elements at all? No mobs or harvesting or anything?
I dont stress about about video games, mostly because, they’re video games.
It’s done when it’s done, and if I don’t like it, this team is one of the few that will give me a refund pretty much no questions asked. Seems like a win/win.
I dont stress about about video games, mostly because, they’re video games.
It’s done when it’s done, and if I don’t like it, this team is one of the few that will give me a refund pretty much no questions asked. Seems like a win/win.
At some point they do plan to discontinue offering refunds, probably in the next beta phase so if anyone is still considering asking for one better do it before then.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I dont stress about about video games, mostly because, they’re video games.
It’s done when it’s done, and if I don’t like it, this team is one of the few that will give me a refund pretty much no questions asked. Seems like a win/win.
At some point they do plan to discontinue offering refunds, probably in the next beta phase so if anyone is still considering asking for one better do it before then.
They’ve said they would give plenty of advanced notice prior to discontinuing.
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
While MJs policy is commendable, it wasn't there at KSer as far as I recall but was offered after dates slipped.
Regardless, I actually "donated" my money, never expecting anything in return unless and until the game actually launched.
Besides, gives me the "right" to hold them accountable until they eventually deliver.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just to put things in perspective, Moore's law says that technology doubles every single year.. so a computer 8 years after they started will be 16x faster than when they started.
In 1961 John F. Kennedy set the goal of putting a man on the moon before the end of the decade and we did it in 1968.. but yet we can't build a video game in that timeframe?
Is it unrealistic for an investor to get a product shipped in less than 8 years.. why don't you go ask real investors their opinion of that?
The problem with crowdfunding is that there is no real pressure on these companies to get work DONE... and that is a significant problem. In a traditional environment, you have a set of investors that sit on a board and they meet every quarter to review progress being made. When progress starts to slow down they ask the hard questions and try to suggest solutions to get things back on track.. this is what pisses developers off because they perceive it as the board getting in the way.. the reality is in most cases it's the board that is trying to do whatever it can to move things along.
Without traditional investors and board companies will burn through money and produce nothing that can be delivered. So you want real expectations? No game should ever take more than 3 years to a released version out the door. Once you go beyond 3 years then you have real problems on your hands. That's the metric, apply it to any game.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Typical gamer fanboy who thinks everyone who disagrees with him is just a hater. I put up $100 to back this game day one. If you would have told me the game would still be in early alpha May of 2019 I would have kept my money. And yes, despite what MJ says this game is very much in early alpha still. Not even close to release. I would bet on some type of bullshit early release by summer 2020. Still won't be complete though.
It is in beta 1 by name so you have access....don't expect it to feel like a beta though.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I don't believe they've yet stood up an always on test environment, but I haven't been following all that closely.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Yes, I would have backed it knowing how long it would take.
Provided of course, that I also magically knew that all the other titles swirling around this space in the same timeframe would be pathetic wannabes with no vision or promise. If someone else had managed to do more with less, if I had been impressed by any of the attempts from then to now, or if there had been some massive innovation that made me change everything, I would probably be very disappointed with my backing investment.
But there's almost no sting. Nothing else has come along that could grab me for even a few days. “Competitor” projects have scuttled and burned or at the very least, hit the same roadblocks. I would be upset if someone else was doing anything better, but right now it looks more like it broadly Can't Be Done than any specific failure here.
If I had known my kids would get all the way through school before seeing any new interesting title actually complete, I may have become a console gamer though.
The expectations for the game will only be that much higher for a game that is meant to be a pvp oriented game by making it take longer.
So i am curious on all the different systems that need more time to develop,
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
I don;t even like the term "back" the game.What you are doing since NON of your money is regulated,accounted for ,is simply handing free money to some person in this case Chris who did NOT need your free money.A rich person taking free handouts is imo pathetic.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I find it even more pathetic that some people handed over free money to someone they really do NOT know but would likely turn down their best friends if they asked for free money.Hey give me some money,i want to buy a car,i'll let you ride in it sometimes but NO guarantee.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Man, that sounds eerily similar to the reasoning I expounded upon a long time ago about why these crowdfunding campaigns should require a lot more honest, straightforward information from project creators geared towards creating an unbiased investment picture for potential backers. Do we really believe MJ, with his experience, was so poor at planning and estimating this project he was 200% off and counting on the estimate? Or do we believe they fudged the projected dates to help convince you to buy in? Does anyone think a traditional investor would stick around sinking money into a project that was taking 3x the estimate time to complete? Are we okay with being blatantly misled in marketing? I suppose so, if crowdfunding is any indication.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Are there no PvE elements at all? No mobs or harvesting or anything?
I dont stress about about video games, mostly because, they’re video games.
It’s done when it’s done, and if I don’t like it, this team is one of the few that will give me a refund pretty much no questions asked. Seems like a win/win.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon