Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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They have a flagging system and "PVP lakes" hardly a 100% open world PVP gankers paradise. Not to mention the chances of this game ever seeing the light of day are astronomical at best.
Since the flagging system does not give you a choice about pvp attacks then yea its a ganker paradise. They will find a way around the A$$hole filter fairly quickly would be my guess. Its what the devs do about it that will make or break the game.
Like i said as PVE'er i dont mind some pvp really dont want to go back to the days of archage gankfest and wount continue to pay for a sub if thats how it ends up. if i need to defend my city or help the guild or something i am down with some pvp.
1. Yes, PvP is on everywhere, except inside your own freehold and if you man a stall in a Node, those are only safe spots :P (Node itself not safe, but has guards which will come after you if you attack someone so....)
2. If you kill green (non-flagged people, aka people who do not fight back, aka gank) you gain corruption, corruption lowers your PvP efficiency and gives you the risk of dropping your gear on death, the higher corruption the more demerit, the higher your level than green person, the more corruption you gain on kill, so ganking/griefing... good luck?
You'll be pretty useless after a few kills if you're ganking low levels. You will also be highlighted on map for Bounty Hunters, have PvP Efficiency lowered as heck, and your death penalties will be way higher.
Death penalties include XP debt, xp that needs to be re-earned, before it's paid back your stats will be lowered based on how much XP debt you have.
Which again means, the time it will take for you to recover from your death penalties will be way longer. Oh and only a certain amount of corruption is removed on death, so if you have a lot you might have to die several times.
3. If you die as green, you have higher death penalties than if you're purple (aka flagged for combat aka fight back)
4. this is because they want the entire economy to be connected, meaning you have to take risks if you want to earn anything.
5. They never said this game is for everyone, they've said this game is not for everyone however.
In all honesty, looking and thinking back at Ultimate Online before Trammel. When I was out and about playing as a murderer, yeah, I liked battling the Anti-PKers. I always tried to avoid killing tradeskillers and what not. But that there is the real problem and always will be. You see, many of the fun games that are sandbox, claim forced PVP. There are certain classes that do not want that extra challenge when working through mundane and tedious tasks like crafting or animal/creature taming, etc. Really, I wish there was a fantasy/medieval game that played exactly like Star Wars Galaxies Pre-NGE. Honestly, What game is a modern day Ultimate Online that took the Trammel Approach? With that said, there are tons of PVP games out there to scratch that itch. There are tons of PVP games where you can grief noobs until they get fed up and leave for another game.
In regards to what I have seen for their corruption system, yeah, if you want to make it where you do not lose any materials or items when in green state, then I would not care about the griefing that is likely coming as a tradeskiller. Otherwise, yeah, I may try it, but it likely wont make me want to stay. I hate survival games where you lose items from random high level mobs that appear out of no where, so have real unpredictable folks do that will not make me want it more.
Oh, and that experience hit or modifier or whatever you want to call it reminds me of Dark Age of Camelot, except there when you died to PVE monsters you would keep taking a hit over and over again which slowed down progression to end game. That extra "Challenge" really was more of an annoyance that nearly turned me off the game. If it was not for my friends, I would have left, so why have something like that? For those who want hard mode? Add a toggle. But hey, my options would be just stop playing and if that the new model for future games, then MMORPGs are likely on their way out.
Because games like GW2, FFXIV, ESO and that type are all theme-based, not really sandbox, and the niche we still are missing is that updated sandbox PVE game. Crimson Desert is likely not gonna fill that one.
Why people insist all games cater to their specific needs? If they want to offer a more niche experience, that is fine. Who knows maybe you will give it a try and learn to enjoy it?
You have to understand that these games try to appeal to as many people as possible, but by doing that they also eliminate some from considering their game....THey know that if they make it pure PVE or PVP only that they will most likely lose more people than if they have both in the game.
You have to understand that these games try to appeal to as many people as possible, but by doing that they also eliminate some from considering their game....THey know that if they make it pure PVE or PVP only that they will most likely lose more people than if they have both in the game.
The entire gaming industry now follows the mantra of maximising the potential player base, this is why we see games without meaningful choices, playstyles that don't sit well together rubbing shoulders, every idea that works well from one franchise shoehorned into every other franchise it can possibly be put it.
It is one of the reasons lore and theme are not so important now, because having lore and a theme ties you to certain type of game while having an unexplained mish-mash for a theme allows anything.
I understand on paper it's both PvP and PvE. I understand with the node system, the rewards for good PvP is more PvE content and more territory.
Is it even possible to make statements about how players will play around nodes? Because as far as I know, currently AoC's core gameplay exists mostly as an (partly contradictory, IMO) idea.
You have to have an MMO with both PVP and PVE in my opinion. PVE will get you invested in the world and keep you busy improving your character. But just like in WoW, once you complete the PVE content, there is nothing to do. That is the problem with theme park MMOs. You ride all the rides and there is nothing left to do but ride the same rides every week. That is not particularly fun or exciting.
PVP however will keep you occupied in between PVE content releases. Ashes has many planned PVP activities like sieges, caravans, arenas, etc. I seriously doubt open world PVP will be that prevalent with the rules they have in place. I wouldn't worry about "forced" PVP ruining your experience.
You have to have an MMO with both PVP and PVE in my opinion. PVE will get you invested in the world and keep you busy improving your character. But just like in WoW, once you complete the PVE content, there is nothing to do. That is the problem with theme park MMOs. You ride all the rides and there is nothing left to do but ride the same rides every week. That is not particularly fun or exciting.
PVP however will keep you occupied in between PVE content releases. Ashes has many planned PVP activities like sieges, caravans, arenas, etc. I seriously doubt open world PVP will be that prevalent with the rules they have in place. I wouldn't worry about "forced" PVP ruining your experience.
except for the people who don't like pvp. You can't say a game needs it when there is a huge group of people who don't think it needs it.
Now, I agree with you in that I think a game should have both. But that's my taste.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Forced PVP doesn't exist. You have to buy the game, create an account, log on, create a character and then step outside of guard zones. You've already given permission 5 times before you can get whacked. Read the box. The OP seems to be doing that. Good.
Nobody ever talks about forced PvE. What about the times the players who want to be PvPing are forced to interact with NPCs, level skills, buy gear and all that rot? Maybe they should start talking about the game in terms that conjure up images of abuse?
I may be an odd duck here but I enjoy being a PvE person in a world with open full loot PvP. I'd like to see the game developers get more creative on how to mix those two a little better but I think it can be done.
For #2 they actually do talk about this. Most recently in Crowfall. A large faction of the "Ivory Tower" complained about the character development and PvE parts of Crowfall. So what we got was an attempt to please them by watering down the PvE.. to the point that you hit level 30 in a few hours and it just feels tacked-on and cheap. Ultimately it led to the BattleRoyale/MOBA Hungergames mode which they implemented in Beta and gave away $50k as prizes. I suspect we will see it launched on Live shortly.
I am 100% fine a fully PvP game. I am 100% fine with a fully PvE game. I'm 100% fine with having both. But the game should simply deliver what they say they will deliver. Once a company starts to add on things to a game to widen the appeal, it almost always ends up in a poorer product for all.
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PVP however will keep you occupied in between PVE content releases. Ashes has many planned PVP activities like sieges, caravans, arenas, etc. I seriously doubt open world PVP will be that prevalent with the rules they have in place. I wouldn't worry about "forced" PVP ruining your experience.
Even though I'm an advocate of open world full loot PvP I have to weigh in here that, IMHO, you are shockingly wrong about this point.
It is almost as if the last 25 years of gaming isn't on your radar.
As much as I like open world full loot PvP - and I've met great people in those games - the fact is there is a contingent (small percentage) that absolutely relish the idea of slaying noobs 24/7. The bigger the skill gap, the more they love it.
You can have tons of PvP options but there are those bottom feeders that will not stop until they can kill a noob in a guard zone.
If I were to ever publish a game of my own I'd simply ban those sorts outright since I doubt there is a ruleset that can stop someone breaking the intent of the game.
Do you know about the corruption system in Ashes? If you kill someone and they dont fight back you will be given a large amount of corruption. That will put you on the map for all to see and will allow people to kill you for a bounty. If you kill more people you will gain more and more penalties like drop items on death, lose exp on death, large stat penalties, etc.
Working off corruption will require you to farm alot of exp or die to another player. If you ever played Lineage 2 its similar but even more punishing and there was very little ganking in that game.
I think its a perfect solution because sometimes you just want to kill someone who is being a dick or its someone you just really dont like but IMO it will not be that common.
That will put you on the map for all to see and will allow people to kill you for a bounty.
...snip... Working off corruption will require you to farm alot of exp or die to another player.
...snip...
Dunno that sounds super exploitable to me.
I think the experience loss on death as a corrupted player will deter people using it to exploit. I am not sure of all the ins and outs of the system.
Only will be a deterrent if players can delevel. Most modern MMOs don't let this occur so no big deal to gank away if not too far above your last level.
These sorts of controls have been tried before, some working better than others, but all have their downsides as well.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
PVP however will keep you occupied in between PVE content releases. Ashes has many planned PVP activities like sieges, caravans, arenas, etc. I seriously doubt open world PVP will be that prevalent with the rules they have in place. I wouldn't worry about "forced" PVP ruining your experience.
Even though I'm an advocate of open world full loot PvP I have to weigh in here that, IMHO, you are shockingly wrong about this point.
It is almost as if the last 25 years of gaming isn't on your radar.
As much as I like open world full loot PvP - and I've met great people in those games - the fact is there is a contingent (small percentage) that absolutely relish the idea of slaying noobs 24/7. The bigger the skill gap, the more they love it.
You can have tons of PvP options but there are those bottom feeders that will not stop until they can kill a noob in a guard zone.
If I were to ever publish a game of my own I'd simply ban those sorts outright since I doubt there is a ruleset that can stop someone breaking the intent of the game.
Do you know about the corruption system in Ashes? If you kill someone and they dont fight back you will be given a large amount of corruption. That will put you on the map for all to see and will allow people to kill you for a bounty. If you kill more people you will gain more and more penalties like drop items on death, lose exp on death, large stat penalties, etc.
I've not read up on it and I hope it works.
Does it address these scenarios:
1: A player who gets to level 5 in 30 minutes and then ganks level 1 players for LULz and deleted/rerolls and repeats? Follow-question: Are the victims going to a) resurrect at the nearest shrine or b) uninstall?
2: Do the PKs have fast travel? If so, being a target on the map isn't going to mean much.
3: How many times are you going to go after that little red dot on the map (you know, the player killer) only to realize it is actually a trap where he has friends ready to jump in and support should the PK be unable to kill you? Side Tactic: The PK can have other PKs logged out in the area (hence not on the map) and they can log in when your posse arrives. GANK.
4: What keeps the PKs friends from murdering him for the bounty and splitting it among uncorrupted alts?
1. Not sure. I could think of a few ways to prevent that though like limited amount of characters and it takes a day or two to delete a character.
2. There is no fast travel in Ashes at all so no.
3. That just sounds like an pretty awesome scenario you described. Sounds fun. Again though, what do they gain? You only drop gathered resources on death so this is not something worthwhile to lose exp, items, and get massive stat penalties.
4. You have to be signed up to be a bounty hunter in this game and be apart of the bounty hunter guild. You will have to read the wikipedia a bit there is alot of info. This will probably not be a worthwhile way to get currency considering you lose exp on death.
That will put you on the map for all to see and will allow people to kill you for a bounty.
...snip... Working off corruption will require you to farm alot of exp or die to another player.
...snip...
Dunno that sounds super exploitable to me.
I think the experience loss on death as a corrupted player will deter people using it to exploit. I am not sure of all the ins and outs of the system.
Only will be a deterrent if players can delevel. Most modern MMOs don't let this occur so no big deal to gank away if not too far above your last level.
These sorts of controls have been tried before, some working better than others, but all have their downsides as well.
Ok I looked it up. You dont delevel but you get exp debt. The more exp debt you have the greater the detriment to your character. That probably means stats lowered and such. Pretty much sounds like the same thing as a delevel to me.
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"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Since the flagging system does not give you a choice about pvp attacks then yea its a ganker paradise. They will find a way around the A$$hole filter fairly quickly would be my guess. Its what the devs do about it that will make or break the game.
Like i said as PVE'er i dont mind some pvp really dont want to go back to the days of archage gankfest and wount continue to pay for a sub if thats how it ends up. if i need to defend my city or help the guild or something i am down with some pvp.
1. Yes, PvP is on everywhere, except inside your own freehold and if you man a stall in a Node, those are only safe spots :P
(Node itself not safe, but has guards which will come after you if you attack someone so....)
2. If you kill green (non-flagged people, aka people who do not fight back, aka gank) you gain corruption, corruption lowers your PvP efficiency and gives you the risk of dropping your gear on death, the higher corruption the more demerit, the higher your level than green person, the more corruption you gain on kill, so ganking/griefing... good luck?
You'll be pretty useless after a few kills if you're ganking low levels.
You will also be highlighted on map for Bounty Hunters, have PvP Efficiency lowered as heck, and your death penalties will be way higher.
Death penalties include XP debt, xp that needs to be re-earned, before it's paid back your stats will be lowered based on how much XP debt you have.
Which again means, the time it will take for you to recover from your death penalties will be way longer. Oh and only a certain amount of corruption is removed on death, so if you have a lot you might have to die several times.
3. If you die as green, you have higher death penalties than if you're purple (aka flagged for combat aka fight back)
4. this is because they want the entire economy to be connected, meaning you have to take risks if you want to earn anything.
5. They never said this game is for everyone, they've said this game is not for everyone however.
6. Am not PvPer, am excited for this game.
In regards to what I have seen for their corruption system, yeah, if you want to make it where you do not lose any materials or items when in green state, then I would not care about the griefing that is likely coming as a tradeskiller. Otherwise, yeah, I may try it, but it likely wont make me want to stay. I hate survival games where you lose items from random high level mobs that appear out of no where, so have real unpredictable folks do that will not make me want it more.
Oh, and that experience hit or modifier or whatever you want to call it reminds me of Dark Age of Camelot, except there when you died to PVE monsters you would keep taking a hit over and over again which slowed down progression to end game. That extra "Challenge" really was more of an annoyance that nearly turned me off the game. If it was not for my friends, I would have left, so why have something like that? For those who want hard mode? Add a toggle. But hey, my options would be just stop playing and if that the new model for future games, then MMORPGs are likely on their way out.
Because games like GW2, FFXIV, ESO and that type are all theme-based, not really sandbox, and the niche we still are missing is that updated sandbox PVE game. Crimson Desert is likely not gonna fill that one.
It is one of the reasons lore and theme are not so important now, because having lore and a theme ties you to certain type of game while having an unexplained mish-mash for a theme allows anything.
PVP however will keep you occupied in between PVE content releases. Ashes has many planned PVP activities like sieges, caravans, arenas, etc. I seriously doubt open world PVP will be that prevalent with the rules they have in place. I wouldn't worry about "forced" PVP ruining your experience.
Now, I agree with you in that I think a game should have both. But that's my taste.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
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I am 100% fine a fully PvP game. I am 100% fine with a fully PvE game. I'm 100% fine with having both. But the game should simply deliver what they say they will deliver. Once a company starts to add on things to a game to widen the appeal, it almost always ends up in a poorer product for all.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Working off corruption will require you to farm alot of exp or die to another player. If you ever played Lineage 2 its similar but even more punishing and there was very little ganking in that game.
I think its a perfect solution because sometimes you just want to kill someone who is being a dick or its someone you just really dont like but IMO it will not be that common.
Dunno that sounds super exploitable to me.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
These sorts of controls have been tried before, some working better than others, but all have their downsides as well.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
2. There is no fast travel in Ashes at all so no.
3. That just sounds like an pretty awesome scenario you described. Sounds fun. Again though, what do they gain? You only drop gathered resources on death so this is not something worthwhile to lose exp, items, and get massive stat penalties.
4. You have to be signed up to be a bounty hunter in this game and be apart of the bounty hunter guild. You will have to read the wikipedia a bit there is alot of info. This will probably not be a worthwhile way to get currency considering you lose exp on death.