No evidence video games cause mass shootings

klash2def

Arterius said:

klash2def said:

Here's what really strange, you say you don't support him but you constantly defend/excuse him.

I am independent. I lean more left then I do right. I do not support trump but their are some policies that I agree with. His immigration polices being one of them. Sometimes I don't agree how he goes about them but I do think that we do have a major illegal problem. My grandma, who is full Mexican, will tell you that. She is moving from her home town in CA to my backwoods town in SD because she is starting to be judged by illegal's because she doesn't speak Spanish and doesn't belong. That is a problem. I don't just read Fox news or CNN either. I read everything from various news sites and then formulate my own decision because the truth always lies somewhere in the middle.

I mean Fox holds Trump up like a god and does everything to please the man and other news sites have a hate boner for the guy. So yes I do not support Trump. I voted against him and I will vote against him come 2020. However, I think dismissing Trump as a bad president though is a mistake. He is doing fine. 

Lol, Okay so you disregarded everything I said and are still defending him. He is doing "FINE" 

Tell that to all the children (Your people) locked up in literal cages at the border. Yea.. everything is "fine" 

Did you also say you are Mexican? You know he doesn't like you right? 

alkarionlog

Ungood said:

gunklacker said:

"Just like a Nuclear Warhead is neither good nor evil, it is just a thing, it is not the weapon that is the problem, it is who has it."

Nope your wrong a Nuclear Warhead is 1000% evil

We shall simply disagree, as a warhead is just an object and an object cannot be good or evil, anymore than a rock can be good or evil. For something to be evil, requires motive and intent, something that all objects lack.

Now.. you could argue that the motive behind making a Warhead is 1000% evil, that the need to have and build a weapon of such devastation is the apex of human evilness and insanity.. that could be its own great discussion. 

But one I have no intention of having.

maybe but there is teh deterrent fact, if someone have a weapon, and you don't, bigger chances are that someone will use such weapon on you, but by having the same weapon, the advantage is lost and then they are more willing to talk and come to a term.

unfortunally, in a war everyone there is fighting is the good guy fighting the evil one, when the truth is politicians wanting something they can't have so they send yourg people to die for then.

start to undertand how humans work and think, everyone who don't agree with you is wrong, i'm the special, pretty much the MMO problem of everyone is the chosen one.

klash2def

Arterius said:

I don't think Trump is unamerican. He has never attacked legal Mexicans or people of other skin color. He may talk smack (Which I don't agree with) but its not like he has ever said anything that would make me fear being deported or being put in a camp. His attacks have pretty firmly been against people coming into the country illegally. It's the other people twisting his words and making it seem like he hates everyone that sows hate.

I literally just wrote a chapter of things he said to people who are actual Americans. Also, you are saying he talks "smack" what does that mean? He says racist things why can't you admit that? So it's okay to be racist as long as the people aren't American? Is that what you are saying? 

What are you talking about? I'm finding it hard to not see you as defending him. 

I understand you are independent, I am too and also like you I am Left-leaning in my political views but I just cannot stand for someone who stokes division and hatred amongst people. 

laserit

Ungood said:

klash2def said:

Ungood said:

gunklacker said:

"Just like a Nuclear Warhead is neither good nor evil, it is just a thing, it is not the weapon that is the problem, it is who has it."

Nope your wrong a Nuclear Warhead is 1000% evil

We shall simply disagree, as a warhead is just an object and an object cannot be good or evil, anymore than a rock can be good or evil. For something to be evil, requires motive and intent, something that all objects lack.

Now.. you could argue that the motive behind making a Warhead is 1000% evil, that the need to have and build a weapon of such devastation is the apex of human evilness and insanity.. that could be its own great discussion. 

But one I have no intention of having.

Well, I don't think anyone here is saying objects can reason or make choices. You are basically saying the same thing he is saying if you take semantics out of it. The bottom line is what here? 

Yes we could argue that it is an issue of semantics, but I would wager it is not.

But keep in mind that Humans at one time thought Crossbows and Dynamite were far too "evil" (read: destructive/deadly) to exist, and should be eradicated.. how naive they were to not even realize that such things were megar stepping stones.. I wonder what the next tier of weapons will be for us.

Can you imagine in say 100 years, people looking back at our crude and archaic weapons and seeing how we fussed endlessly they were too deadly and dangerous, like we would look back upon the bow or dagger.

Sure, the bow and daggers ability to kill someone has not diminished since their inception, in fact, our technological advancements have made them even deadlier than they have ever been, but they have simply been outclassed by more modern weapons.

Same too I suppose will happen to all our currently modern weapons, such is the nature of our species.

Which is why it is pointless to say someTHING is evil, and instead focus on the person. 

The real question should be: Why are Humans so obsessed with killing each other, we have been such long before video games, will be such long after them.. we have killed with bombs, and when we didn't have bombs, we killed with guns, when we didn't have guns, we killed with knives, when we didn't have knives we killed with rocks.. it is not what is in our hand that is the problem... so we need to ask the hard question... what is the real problem?

It goes all the way back. How can you change something that's so ingrained in our being?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7XuXi3mqYM

Slapshot1188

klash2def said:

Arterius said:

I don't think Trump is unamerican. He has never attacked legal Mexicans or people of other skin color. He may talk smack (Which I don't agree with) but its not like he has ever said anything that would make me fear being deported or being put in a camp. His attacks have pretty firmly been against people coming into the country illegally. It's the other people twisting his words and making it seem like he hates everyone that sows hate.

I literally just wrote a chapter of things he said to people who are actual Americans. Also, you are saying he talks "smack" what does that mean? He says racist things why can't you admit that? So it's okay to be racist as long as the people aren't American? Is that what you are saying? 

What are you talking about? I'm finding it hard to not see you as defending him. 

I understand you are independent, I am too and also like you I am Left-leaning in my political views but I just cannot stand for someone who stokes division and hatred amongst people. 

So your argument regarding video games is that Trump is responsible (partly) because he says bad things but video games which have you actually act out those bad things have zero responsibility?

I'm honestly not interested in talking about Trump in a thread about video games... so I just want to try and relate your argument to the topic.  You seem to be saying that only a few sources can influence behavior and other sources cannot?  It seems odd to me.

As I said.  My personal experience when I saw certain movies was to go emulate them.  Is it really impossible that SOME people do the same with violent movies and games?

Gutlard

I think I read 40k+ died from gun deaths last year in the US, and there were another 10k+ or so incidents with guns, but not leading to death. How that compares to other countries? I don't know, but it wouldn't take long to find out.

I'm also not sure what % of those were from self-defense with 'legal' firearms and what % were from illegal firearms.

It's too much. It should be too much to anyone whether you're a gang banger &/or a 'good American with strong moral fiber' flexing your constitutional rights.

To say anything else for or against that # is bullshit at the highest level, regarding this specific issue. Too many people are dying in stupid ways.

The same could be said for obesity, smoking, drinking, you name it, but those are other issues.

They all have the same thing in common though. Humans being stupid or lazy or self-centered or reckless or careless.

No matter who we believe in, life is a gift that we all take for granted one way or another.

We vote politicians into office to paper push this shit out of existence, but we hardly hold them accountable when they don't. We're too entertained over them dogging on each other, chasing soundbites, enjoying awesome benefits for life, then booking speaking tours and book tours. They act like spoiled little celebrities instead of public servants.

We've all had a hand in it getting like this...and it would probably take us all to dig out of it.

With a fraction of a fraction of the people getting involved to vote and help their communities, it'll always be an uphill battle, and I don't know how to make it better.

I'll keep staying involved in my area and doing charity work when I can and hopefully raise my sons to not be totally stupid/lazy/self-centered/reckless/careless idiots that would only add to our problems.

Gut Out!

klash2def

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Arterius said:

I don't think Trump is unamerican. He has never attacked legal Mexicans or people of other skin color. He may talk smack (Which I don't agree with) but its not like he has ever said anything that would make me fear being deported or being put in a camp. His attacks have pretty firmly been against people coming into the country illegally. It's the other people twisting his words and making it seem like he hates everyone that sows hate.

I literally just wrote a chapter of things he said to people who are actual Americans. Also, you are saying he talks "smack" what does that mean? He says racist things why can't you admit that? So it's okay to be racist as long as the people aren't American? Is that what you are saying? 

What are you talking about? I'm finding it hard to not see you as defending him. 

I understand you are independent, I am too and also like you I am Left-leaning in my political views but I just cannot stand for someone who stokes division and hatred amongst people. 

So your argument regarding video games is that Trump is responsible (partly) because he says bad things but video games which have you actually act out those bad things have zero responsibility?

I'm honestly not interested in talking about Trump in a thread about video games... so I just want to try and relate your argument to the topic.  You seem to be saying that only a few sources can influence behavior and other sources cannot?  It seems odd to me.

As I said.  My personal experience when I saw certain movies was to go emulate them.  Is it really impossible that SOME people do the same with violent movies and games?

How come every time I speak in one of these threads you want to tell me to stay on topic as if somehow the topic isn't political in nature.  I didn't start the thread. This isn't a thread about Video games, we aren't discussing gear ratings here. You just want to say that to me because I am making valid points. It never fails. But I will entertain you.

Sir, we are discussing mass shootings and video games. That topic alone has a political connotation. You cannot discuss the political climate, yes even surrounding video games, without discussing the leadership and lawmakers. It's not my fault Trump is in leadership, I didn't vote for him. He blamed video games, I'm blaming him more than video games. People ask me why. I explain.

What don't you get? 

EDIT: You don't have to try to relate my argument to the topic because its on topic. You just don't like what I have to say so you want to silence me. funny how everyone else can say what they want around here but there is a problem once I start giving my pov. Very Interesting. 

gervaise1

klash2def said:

<snip>
Lol, Okay so you disregarded everything I said and are still defending him. He is doing "FINE" 
<snip>

Well he has cut his tax bill bigly - or his future taxes since you have to assume he hasn't paid any recently given the lengths gone to to not release his returns (off-sets, deductions etc.) like all recent past presidents!

And he does seem to have drained the swamp into the White House - considering the number of criminal charges etc.  
 

klash2def

gervaise1 said:

klash2def said:

<snip>
Lol, Okay so you disregarded everything I said and are still defending him. He is doing "FINE" 
<snip>

Well he has cut his tax bill bigly - or his future taxes since you have to assume he hasn't paid any recently given the lengths gone to to not release his returns (off-sets, deductions etc.) like all recent past presidents!

And he does seem to have drained the swamp into the White House - considering the number of criminal charges etc.  
 

Slapshot1188

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Arterius said:

I don't think Trump is unamerican. He has never attacked legal Mexicans or people of other skin color. He may talk smack (Which I don't agree with) but its not like he has ever said anything that would make me fear being deported or being put in a camp. His attacks have pretty firmly been against people coming into the country illegally. It's the other people twisting his words and making it seem like he hates everyone that sows hate.

I literally just wrote a chapter of things he said to people who are actual Americans. Also, you are saying he talks "smack" what does that mean? He says racist things why can't you admit that? So it's okay to be racist as long as the people aren't American? Is that what you are saying? 

What are you talking about? I'm finding it hard to not see you as defending him. 

I understand you are independent, I am too and also like you I am Left-leaning in my political views but I just cannot stand for someone who stokes division and hatred amongst people. 

So your argument regarding video games is that Trump is responsible (partly) because he says bad things but video games which have you actually act out those bad things have zero responsibility?

I'm honestly not interested in talking about Trump in a thread about video games... so I just want to try and relate your argument to the topic.  You seem to be saying that only a few sources can influence behavior and other sources cannot?  It seems odd to me.

As I said.  My personal experience when I saw certain movies was to go emulate them.  Is it really impossible that SOME people do the same with violent movies and games?

How come every time I speak in one of these threads you want to tell me to stay on topic as if somehow the topic isn't political in nature.  I didn't start the thread. This isn't a thread about Video games, we aren't discussing gear ratings here. You just want to say that to me because I am making valid points. It never fails. But I will entertain you.

Sir, we are discussing mass shootings and video games. That topic alone has a political connotation. You cannot discuss the political climate, yes even surrounding video games, without discussing the leadership and lawmakers. It's not my fault Trump is in leadership, I didn't vote for him. He blamed video games, I'm blaming him more than video games. People ask me why. I explain.

What don't you get? 

I think that is the FIRST time I have seen you use the phrase MORE THAN.  This indicates that you acknowledge there is a chance that video games might contribute to these situations.  This I understand.   Your prior statements in this thread were: Trump and White Nationalism and inferring that video games had no impact: "Everyone knows exactly what is inciting all this violence. It's painfully obvious yet and still... let's blame mental health and video games."

So yeah.  While my own jury is still out on Trump, I will say that I think ALL/ANY of those reasons COULD be a contributing factor for SOME people.

So let's not belittle people that actually think that shooting thousands of people in a video game COULD in fact inspire someone to commit a violent act.  I'd wager that if there are 444 shootings in a given weekend (and their are) that there are literally HUNDREDS of reasons for them.

Let's not be so quick to point to "THEM.. or THOSE OTHER PEOPLE" as the reason and acknowledge that those other people can be a reason, video games can be a reason and WE can be a reason.

Whatever you think about Trump, even if you are correct it would just be a SYMPTOM of the US vs THEM mentality that is so prevalent today.  Even in this thread.

MikeB

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