I ran a test, the results are not good

delete5230

Roughly about 15 out of 40 get it.   

I actually ran a test to see the percentage of level head people verses the I want it all.  The test question was "extreme low graphics, would you play".  

Seems people don't understand budgets and economics much like real life.  Here in America people want "health care for all"…… They refuse to face WHO WILL PAY FOR IT, huge amounts of other ramifications go along with it, many unsolvable.   They want it, insist on it and can't be bargained with.  What's their defense or counter clam ?..... They attack with non relevant facts, much like I'll be getting for this post.  They can't handle it so they go berserk.   

Any company or indie is on a budget.  Before venturing they have to make an outline much like a carpenter preparing to build a house.  Estimated cost and what the end results will be.  

Graphics cost money, everyone seems to agree, I give credit for that (40 out of 40).  But they insist on both, this is where it gets shaky (15 out of 40).  In the test, one person stood out stating its work not cost, problem being time is money also.  The exceptional greatness is, his project runs on passion so I can understand.

I'll give more credit because some understand and will settle for far less of a game ( 30 days of content).

Historical exceptions: World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, GuildWars 2, Black Desert Online. 

Mmorpgs are at a low, some can't face it.  It's the same problem different topic. 

We don't have any choices, we can't offer opinions or help…..None of us can fix the problem.  Unfortunately there is no answer as long as 25 million out of 40 million don't understand budgets and economics or settle for far less. 

Good news, An indie will rise from the ashes like a thief in the night.  

 

Give and take,

Decisions have to be made.  If your shopping for groceries with very little money and chose to fill your cart anyway it gets real at checkout.  As pain full as is reality sets in at some point.  This is where credit cards step in.  Defer the problem deal with it later, OR NOT.

delete5230

DMKano said:

The first image that came to my mind about Deleted running a test

This is the berserk I was talking about..... non relevant.
It's funny, but not a counter point  

rojoArcueid

Defending a company that will make billions by not doing their job is absurd. That applies to game development companies, and since you mentioned them... the corrupt health care corporate.

I've always said i don't need realistic graphics, i want a good game that looks good. When companies spend their "budget" making the absolute best graphics almost mirroring real life, they waste development time on that and release an unfinished, bug fest with little content and still expect to line their pockets.

delete5230

rojoArcueid said:

Defending a company that will make billions by not doing their job is absurd. That applies to game development companies, and since you mentioned them... the corrupt health care corporate.

I've always said i don't need realistic graphics, i want a good game that looks good. When companies spend their "budget" making the absolute best graphics almost mirroring real life, they waste development time on that and release an unfinished, bug fest with little content and still expect to line their pockets.

Agree,
Good post !

Off topic:
Corrupt health care YES.... step in and FIX THAT..... Health care for all doesn't. 

rojoArcueid

delete5230 said:

rojoArcueid said:

Defending a company that will make billions by not doing their job is absurd. That applies to game development companies, and since you mentioned them... the corrupt health care corporate.

I've always said i don't need realistic graphics, i want a good game that looks good. When companies spend their "budget" making the absolute best graphics almost mirroring real life, they waste development time on that and release an unfinished, bug fest with little content and still expect to line their pockets.

Agree,
Good post !

Off topic:
Corrupt health care YES.... step in and FIX THAT..... Health care for all doesn't. 

whatever healthcare system they can get that is affordable for everyone should be in place. It doesn't fit in my head that everyone has the right to carry a gun but only the rich have the right to survive a serious disease. But let's stay on topic. Politics just breed hate.

There are plenty of games that look really good and don't have the most modern graphics. Like Sovrath said above, when the art design is good the game can easily get away with less "graphics".

Axxar

Other developed countries have no problems providing healthcare for all. But then again they choose to spend their money on their country instead of endless and illegal wars on the other side of the world. Somehow there is always money for war.

I agree you can have dated graphics that look great. 90s 3d graphics not so much, but art style goes a long way. Even pixel art can look very beautiful.

Margaretaville

Art style is eye candy, and eye candy draws consumers, consumers mean money.

Look at the fake blondes on television news, pro sports cheerleaders, commercial advertising models. Eye candy sells, and at the end of the day that is what the game developer is doing, selling the consumer their product in a crowded field of products.

Look at the game ads on this site, drop dead gorgeous pixilated girls in skimpy outfits used to grab attention and sell product. Focus on the eye candy, not the crap we're peddling.....

Doesn't matter what that product is, a failed sports franchise, or a failed game.

Everything is about appearance, not structure. As long as the roads, bridges, water/sewer systems, dams, electrical grid, buildings, etc look pretty, nobody questions the underlying structural soundness. 

People spend a lot of money on botox, breast implants, face lifts, etc to look good, then stuff their faces with sugary products, fried foods, and cancer causing chemically altered good tasting foods. Look at the questions being raised about what's in the cosmetics women use regularly on their skin.

It's all about image, just step back over the edge of the Grand Canyon as you take that selfie to post on Facebook showing your friends how great a time you're having.

Chalk it up to the overall intelligence of the human race.

Oh, and as for health care, it's a good bet that once Medicare for all passes, corporate America will discontinue employee health care and save a bundle for bonus and dividends. Just like dropping defined benefit retirement plans was the result of IRAs and 401ks. The ultimate payor will be the individual consumer through taxes, not the corporations or the wealthy, they hire CPAs and Tax Attorneys to avoid paying.

Albatroes

I think the main problem is developers either don't have their own vision for the games they make or just aren't allowed to create the game they actually want. Even though games like Sekiro or The Witcher aren't for me, at least the devs stuck to their guns about core decisions and the real gamers respected that. That was another reason why some of the older generation of mmorpgs gamers liked older mmorpgs. You got what you got and had to make it work, because 1) that's how it was designed and 2) the competition was a lot lighter compared to pretty much any asian college student pumping out a mmorpg and trying to make side cash off it now-a-days. People have always wanted it easy in any game but most of the time back in the day devs didn't cave. So many people are so hung up on the idea that every game has to be for them or its just a bad game.

IsilithTehroth

I play OSRS, but there is a point where yes graphics matter, but gameplay always trumps it.

Sovrath

I could have sworn in one of your myriad threads that you actually complained about Pantheon's graphics and animations.

NorseGod

I still think whenever the question of graphics comes up, my answer is going to be "it depends".

For example, I love AO. To me, the graphics is one of the things that makes the game special.  But, I understand how AO graphics can be a turn off.

On the other hand, games with bleeding edge graphics can seem like they are distracting from the fact that their actual gameplay sucks.

Utinni

delete5230 said:

Seems people don't understand budgets and economics much like real life.  Here in America people want "health care for all"…… They refuse to face WHO WILL PAY FOR IT, huge amounts of other ramifications go along with it, many unsolvable.   

You do know that almost every other civilized western country has this right? Healthcare for the citizens of the richest country in the world isn't very complicated to make happen. Making a game with top tier graphics and gameplay is much more difficult.

Marid

Personally, I don't care about indie MMO developers (save but one: Abstract Era Entertainment) as they are, generally speaking, out of their league in this genre. If they wish to support themselves they should retool and focus on making good single-player games...OR they can jump into the modding scene and help us make some truly epic MMOs!

As for the OP's main argument, all I have to say is: Huh? The mere existence of Guild Wars 2 destroys his argument. It has great graphics, great music, great voice acting, great story, great combat mechanics, great crafting, colossal amounts of high quality content, and if you're into it, it has great PvP and great WvW, too...heck, it even has some Sci-Fi yumyums in it as well!

So, no...the OP doesn't have a valid argument. So, what's the real issue then? Well, I suspect that the OP may be a closet luddite. Yeah...I know, right? The good news is that I have a 5-step plan that will help the OP to overcome his irrational fear of the future...

Step 1) He should take his Commodore 64 to a nerd-convention and sell it for a jar full of pennies.

Step 2) Get a part-time job and work the hell out of it!

Step 3) I forgot what step 3 is...

Step 4) Get on the interwebs and buy a new computer!

Step 5) Download GW2 and play it for free.

With this simple 5-step program I am confident that the OP will go from...

"Hey, you kids, with your fancy ipods that have dumb-looking good graphics, GET OFF MY LAWN!!"

To...

"Yeah, those are pretty nice graphics...now, get off my lawn or I'll call the cops!!"

Wow! Sometimes my ability to heal others astonishes even me!

Quizzical

Making a forum post and reading through the replies is not a scientific test.  If that were valid, then Ron Paul would have been elected president in 2008 in a landslide, since that's what all the Internet polls said.

olepi

"Here in America people want "health care for all"…… They refuse to face WHO WILL PAY FOR IT,"

Not sure what this is doing in a game site post. It sounds more like a political rant.

Sovrath

Marid said:

As for the OP's main argument, all I have to say is: Huh? The mere existence of Guild Wars 2 destroys his argument. It has great graphics, great music, great voice acting, great story, great combat mechanics, great crafting, colossal amounts of high quality content, and if you're into it, it has great PvP and great WvW, too...heck, it even has some Sci-Fi yumyums in it as well!

Step 5) Download GW2 for free and play it.

Guild Wars 2 is a good, well made game but I personally saw nothing great about it. 

Utinni

olepi said:

"Here in America people want "health care for all"…… They refuse to face WHO WILL PAY FOR IT,"

Not sure what this is doing in a game site post. It sounds more like a political rant.

Apparently having healthcare available for your countries citizens is as ridiculous as wanting high end graphics!

Mendel

I'm with @Quizzical here; I'm curious about the accuracy of this 'test', too.  Specifically, I wonder where he placed my post, either for or against, since I really didn't express a preference either way.  More of a tangential thing.

Iselin

Sovrath said:

I could have sworn in one of your myriad threads that you actually complained about Pantheon's graphics and animations.

He's a stream of consciousness kind of poster. Wait long enough and he'll post a third and then 4th contradictory opinions. It's kind of like watching him argue with himself sometimes. 

Gutlard

Gamers pay either way. Citizens pay either way.

Everyone alive should get a chance to sit at the table, and they better make the most of it.

Gut Out!

Sovrath

Iselin said:

Sovrath said:

I could have sworn in one of your myriad threads that you actually complained about Pantheon's graphics and animations.

He's a stream of consciousness kind of poster. Wait long enough and he'll post a third and then 4th contradictory opinions. It's kind of like watching him argue with himself sometimes. 

Wish I could "agree, "insightful" and "awesome" at the same time.

Interesting to note that, at this point, I think most every thread in the Pantheon forum was started by him. At least he keeps discussion alive so I'll give him that.

olepi

The original point is still valid, how a design group allocates their money is important. In some cases, there isn't enough money and it is distributed unevenly.

In other cases, there is too much money, and so there is no actual pressure to release anything.

Amathe

Sovrath said:

Iselin I think most every thread in the Pantheon forum was started by him. 

In fairness, one needs more posts to adequately contradict oneself.  We need more information. I don't want that information. Graphics don't matter. Graphics matter. The game is the one true mmorpg! The game is shit. The game will release. The game will never release. Blah blah.

Tiller

wow

Cryomatrix

Number of things here.

1) I dont read what Delete writes, just the comments. Past history has taught me no point to read what he writes.

2) As someone who works in healthcare, yes there are problems and health insurance companies are a big problem, but i as a human being, i couldnt deny a person healthcare if I could do something about it. Are u guys okay letting someone suffer because they cant pay for healthcare? 

Healthcare should be a right for everyone, the compassion that America has is amazing for people. As a doctor, i have offered to pay for medications for my patients sometimes if the insurance company or medicaid/medicare is being stupid. 

3) i am also pretty sure OP doesnt understand what he professes to understand. 

Quizzical

Cryomatrix said:

2) As someone who works in healthcare, yes there are problems and health insurance companies are a big problem, but i as a human being, i couldnt deny a person healthcare if I could do something about it. Are u guys okay letting someone suffer because they cant pay for healthcare? 

Healthcare should be a right for everyone, the compassion that America has is amazing for people. As a doctor, i have offered to pay for medications for my patients sometimes if the insurance company or medicaid/medicare is being stupid. 

The political questions about health care are not about whether everyone should get the health care that they need.  There is broad agreement all across the political spectrum that yes, everyone should get good quality health care.  Rather, the real questions are:

1)  How should health care be provided?
2)  How should health care be paid for?
3)  Under what circumstances is it acceptable to deny health care to save money?

On (3), there are a lot of things that everyone would say, yeah, they have to be able to get that health care.  But there are also a lot of cases where it is more debatable.  For example:

1)  What about alternative medicine, such as chiropractic or acupuncture?  Do people have a right to that, whether they can pay or not?  Where do you draw the line as to what is likely to be how effective?  Who decides?
2)  What about people who are almost certainly going to die anyway?  Is it worth spending a bunch of money to extend their lives by a week or a month?
3)  What about people who brought huge medical expenses on themselves with egregiously reckless behavior?  Should people who were responsible be obligated to pay for organ transplants for a drug addict who ruined his own body?  How about treatments for a diabetic who refuses to watch what he eats and suffers the consequences?  Someone who developed lung cancer after smoking two packs of cigarettes per day for 40 years?

If you say yes, all of that health care should be provided even to people who can't pay for it, then the question of how to pay for it becomes very difficult.