I ran a test, the results are not good

AlBQuirky

laserit said:

Amathe said:

Scot said:

Well I think he is commenting on the fact we were not all happy with low quality graphics in the other thread. I am sure many would be, quite possibly enough for an indie MMO, but there is no guarantee. To appeal to a larger audience (and ensure you have enough for an indie MMO) the graphics will need to be decent. It is a balance, not going too far either way seems to be what all the indie MMOs have gone for so far.

@Scot You always look for educational value, even in posts that are complete poop. Someone could say "I like eating dirt," and you will  take from that "I think what he is saying is that we all benefit from returning to our core values in Mother earth."

Glad you're here. Sometimes yours is the only sane post to be found.

Hey now...

Eating dirt is good for the immune system.

just sayin

Ya know... I don't recall ever seeing a sick earthworm...

AlBQuirky

Sharne said:

Genuinely curious, what happens is the US, if a homeless guy is knocked over, taken to hospital, needs an operation to save his life, has no known relatives and has no health insurance?

Usually, they get the help they need. There will be outlier stories, but it is rare that health care is "refused" to those in need here in America.

AlBQuirky

Margaretaville said:

Quizzical said:

And, of course, things that politicians claim will work well commonly don't actually work well in the real world.

We have this alternate reality in the US that exists solely within "The Beltway" in Washington DC.

Picture yourself stepping Through the Looking Glass, falling down the rabbit hole, drinking the vial labelled "Drink Me", and following The White Rabbit to the Tea Party, only to find the Mad Hatter and the Marche Hare in charge of stuffing the Dormouse into the Tea Pot. 

Now you know why things that sound good inside the Beltway don't actually work in the real world...….always be careful what you ask for.

Those in "the beltway" of DC think "affordable" means "government subsidized." Even with Obamacare, healthcare costs are astronomical, far from "affordable."

A truly affordable healthcare system would have folks paying as they are able, since everyone has different income levels.

Quizzical

AlBQuirky said:

laserit said:

Amathe said:

Scot said:

Well I think he is commenting on the fact we were not all happy with low quality graphics in the other thread. I am sure many would be, quite possibly enough for an indie MMO, but there is no guarantee. To appeal to a larger audience (and ensure you have enough for an indie MMO) the graphics will need to be decent. It is a balance, not going too far either way seems to be what all the indie MMOs have gone for so far.

@Scot You always look for educational value, even in posts that are complete poop. Someone could say "I like eating dirt," and you will  take from that "I think what he is saying is that we all benefit from returning to our core values in Mother earth."

Glad you're here. Sometimes yours is the only sane post to be found.

Hey now...

Eating dirt is good for the immune system.

just sayin

Ya know... I don't recall ever seeing a sick earthworm...

If you saw an earthworm, how would you tell if it were sick?

laserit

Quizzical said:

AlBQuirky said:

laserit said:

Amathe said:

Scot said:

Well I think he is commenting on the fact we were not all happy with low quality graphics in the other thread. I am sure many would be, quite possibly enough for an indie MMO, but there is no guarantee. To appeal to a larger audience (and ensure you have enough for an indie MMO) the graphics will need to be decent. It is a balance, not going too far either way seems to be what all the indie MMOs have gone for so far.

@Scot You always look for educational value, even in posts that are complete poop. Someone could say "I like eating dirt," and you will  take from that "I think what he is saying is that we all benefit from returning to our core values in Mother earth."

Glad you're here. Sometimes yours is the only sane post to be found.

Hey now...

Eating dirt is good for the immune system.

just sayin

Ya know... I don't recall ever seeing a sick earthworm...

If you saw an earthworm, how would you tell if it were sick?

If you’ve ever bought dew worms for fishing you would see that its pretty easy to discern between   healthy and sickly.

Utinni

Ungood said:

Ok, legit, in America, for "Universal Health" it would have to be a Much smaller country. Sorry, but America's diversity and bulk make it very hard for that kind of plan to work. 


In the few counties that are near as large as America that have some kind of public health, like China, they have the cultural diversity of a bar of ivory soap.

This is just an excuse. It's sad the most powerful country in the world makes excuses. 

 Also China has 56 different ethnic groups. I'd say that's more diverse than a bar of ivory soap.

Tiller

Mods must be on vacation lol

AlBQuirky

Tiller said:

Mods must be on vacation lol

It is the weekend

Amaranthar

laserit said:

Quizzical said:

AlBQuirky said:

laserit said:

Amathe said:

Scot said:

Well I think he is commenting on the fact we were not all happy with low quality graphics in the other thread. I am sure many would be, quite possibly enough for an indie MMO, but there is no guarantee. To appeal to a larger audience (and ensure you have enough for an indie MMO) the graphics will need to be decent. It is a balance, not going too far either way seems to be what all the indie MMOs have gone for so far.

@Scot You always look for educational value, even in posts that are complete poop. Someone could say "I like eating dirt," and you will  take from that "I think what he is saying is that we all benefit from returning to our core values in Mother earth."

Glad you're here. Sometimes yours is the only sane post to be found.

Hey now...

Eating dirt is good for the immune system.

just sayin

Ya know... I don't recall ever seeing a sick earthworm...

If you saw an earthworm, how would you tell if it were sick?

If you’ve ever bought dew worms for fishing you would see that its pretty easy to discern between   healthy and sickly.

Yeah, the ones on the hook never look too happy. 

Ungood

Sharne said:

Ungood said:

Sharne said:

Ungood said:

Ok, legit, in America, for "Universal Health" it would have to be a Much smaller country. Sorry, but America's diversity and bulk make it very hard for that kind of plan to work. 

Just to really grasp things, Countries like Canada, have a population smaller than California, in fact, only 36 counties in the world, ok let that process, across the whole world of 230+ nations, only 36 nations have a higher population than California alone, if we toss in Texas, now you have 19 counties, and UK didn't make the cut.

In the few counties that are near as large as America that have some kind of public health, like China, they have the cultural diversity of a bar of ivory soap.

On top of that, American government is not known for having their shit together, these are the same people that bankrupted Medicare, and Social Security, and now recently, the Democrats could not even get a correct count at the voting polls in Iowa, so, these are not the people that any sane person would want running their heath care.

And that is where most Americans have an issue, it is not the idea of public health that bothers them, it's who would be in charge of it.

I cant see how the population or diversity (Your point about China not being culturally diverse is totally wrong btw) would have an impact, the issue is how the healthcare is funded, rather than the infrastructure right?

Also your point about China not being culturally diverse is  

The point about who would run it though, I completely understand.

 91+% of China is Han Chinese, Of the remaining 8(ish)% of the population they are Also Chinese, just not Han Chinese. 

To give you an idea, in America, the "Majority" population is held on by 51%, and that group is classified as "White" and has more diversity in it's own right than China, in fact American's Asian population alone has more cultural diversity than China.

And that's just the facts, not my opnion at all.

Your talking about racial diversity rather than cultural diversity in the first part and your figures are incorrect for that too (around 72(ish)% of the US population was classified as white in the 2010 Census), so no not facts, just your opinion.

Hi.

You know, it helps if you read the words of the wiki article as opposed to just stopping at the first picture and thinking you know everything. If you had taken the time read the actual words, as opposed to just looking at the pretty graphic (look we are back on topic about graphics!) you would have known that in 2016, the number of people in America that identified as "White" had dropped to 61%, and if you looked a little further down you would have seen a nice other graphic that showed that in 2018 it was at 53% and still dropping.

Anyway, I hope this clears up the facts you think you have. I would suggest getting your facts straight before shooting off your mouth in the future.. but.. ya know.. just do you.

VengeSunsoar

Actually many studies have shown that the larger the population the easier and better UHS works.

Ungood

Utinni said:

Ungood said:

Ok, legit, in America, for "Universal Health" it would have to be a Much smaller country. Sorry, but America's diversity and bulk make it very hard for that kind of plan to work. 


In the few counties that are near as large as America that have some kind of public health, like China, they have the cultural diversity of a bar of ivory soap.

This is just an excuse. It's sad the most powerful country in the world makes excuses. 

 Also China has 56 different ethnic groups. I'd say that's more diverse than a bar of ivory soap.

Those 56 different "ethic" groups, which are just variations of Chinese, like the difference between an Englishman and Scotsman (and America is so diverse we can't even use that kind of system without hitting the 100's), still only make up roughly 8%. So yah.. Ivory Soap.

Utinni

Ungood said:

Utinni said:

Ungood said:

Ok, legit, in America, for "Universal Health" it would have to be a Much smaller country. Sorry, but America's diversity and bulk make it very hard for that kind of plan to work. 


In the few counties that are near as large as America that have some kind of public health, like China, they have the cultural diversity of a bar of ivory soap.

This is just an excuse. It's sad the most powerful country in the world makes excuses. 

 Also China has 56 different ethnic groups. I'd say that's more diverse than a bar of ivory soap.

Those 56 different "ethic" groups, which are just variations of Chinese, like the difference between an Englishman and Scotsman (and America is so diverse we can't even use that kind of system without hitting the 100's), still only make up roughly 8%. So yah.. Ivory Soap.

Ohhh ok so if they're the same color they have the same culture. Gotcha! 

Ungood

VengeSunsoar said:

Actually many studies have shown that the larger the population the easier and better UHS works.

Not really, the larger the population the more uniform it needs to become for the system to work, IE: Everyone needs to have similar to identical work, lifestyle and health ethics. The more diverse the population, the less uniformity, you have too much chaos to make the system work well.

Case in point, lets use life insurance, the idea behind selling life insurance is that the life expectancy of a single person is totally uncertain, they could live another 50 years, they could die tomorrow, while the life expectancy of a million people is far more predictable.

So that was the idea, selling millions upon millions of policies and having everything balance out.

But even using that millions of people system, each policy is individually written for the person, because they still need to break people down into smaller groups to find out their more accurate life expectancy, so when people underwrite life insurance they look at things like, overall physical health, Racial ethnic, Religious belief, education, life style, even employment, and using all those factors, that can make a better prediction, based on all the other people that fall into the same categories. 

This is why in a country like China, where 91% of the population is Han Chinese, where they all more homogeneous, it is far easier to provide a blanket health care for them, just like it would be far easier to underwrite life insurance for them, as a one-policy-fits-all would be a viable option.

Where at the same time, just like life insurance, the more unique a person is, or the less Homogenizes the group is, the harder it is to make a blanket system that can work for all of them, just like the harder it would be for a one-policy-fits all life insurance with a more diverse group.

America is a very unique country in this regard, which is why we are having the problems we are having.

Same with a video game, the more they try to build for everyone, the less they end up building for anyone, even something like WoW, with all it's numbers, there were a lot of people that it did not click with, or simply did not like it.

Cryomatrix

Getting back to original topic.

Delete:
You dont articulate your point well at all, i reread your other post and then this original post and it is very difficult to discern your point.

You need to summarize the points of your post at the end to make sure you have conveyed what you wanted to convey.

Your other post about a huge budget game with no resources put towards graphics, would you play it?

The answer for most rational people is there wouldnt be a game with huge budget and nothing to graphics, because anyone with a brain knows looks are important. 

The other issue is that the better the graphics the better the computer system needs to be and then you could price your audience out of the game to begin with. Etc, etc, etc

You have general points you like but lack the ability to see nuances and look at the whole pictute. 

If you asked people, do you think if there is a finite budget, would there be a tradeoff betwern gameplay and graphics.

The obvious answer is yes, with limited resources you have to choose.

Indie companies lack resources, so their games often take a hit graphically but are full of other features. 

Indie movie makers cant have fancy CGI, but big movie studios do fancy cgi and rehash shitty movie tropes.

Ungood

Sharne said:

So just to settle this, clarify are you talking about racial diversity or cultural diversity, because you know they are different right?

Ya know, this is cute, and it really shows how little the diversity must be out there in other countries, see in America, Racial is pretty much the only way we can split up the country, so for us, Cultural/Racial are kind of the same thing, because if we tried anything else, we would be somewhere in the thousands of different cultural groups.

As I said, in America we are one of the most diverse nations in the world, and to really grasp that, our Asian Population alone which makes up only 5+% of our country, is more Culturally diverse than the entire Cultural Diversity of China.

And I really think people don't get that.

Utinni

Ungood said:

VengeSunsoar said:

Actually many studies have shown that the larger the population the easier and better UHS works.

Not really, the larger the population the more uniform it needs to become for the system to work, IE: Everyone needs to have similar to identical work, lifestyle and health ethics. The more diverse the population, the less uniformity, you have too much chaos to make the system work well.

Case in point, lets use life insurance, the idea behind selling life insurance is that the life expectancy of a single person is totally uncertain, they could live another 50 years, they could die tomorrow, while the life expectancy of a million people is far more predictable.

So that was the idea, selling millions upon millions of policies and having everything balance out.

But even using that millions of people system, each policy is individually written for the person, because they still need to break people down into smaller groups to find out their more accurate life expectancy, so when people underwrite life insurance they look at things like, overall physical health, Racial ethnic, Religious belief, education, life style, even employment, and using all those factors, that can make a better prediction, based on all the other people that fall into the same categories. 

This is why in a country like China, where 91% of the population is Han Chinese, where they all more homogeneous, it is far easier to provide a blanket health care for them, just like it would be far easier to underwrite life insurance for them, as a one-policy-fits-all would be a viable option.

Where at the same time, just like life insurance, the more unique a person is, or the less Homogenizes the group is, the harder it is to make a blanket system that can work for all of them, just like the harder it would be for a one-policy-fits all life insurance with a more diverse group.

America is a very unique country in this regard, which is why we are having the problems we are having.

Same with a video game, the more they try to build for everyone, the less they end up building for anyone, even something like WoW, with all it's numbers, there were a lot of people that it did not click with, or simply did not like it.

The ol "it's complicated so it's impossible" argument. 

lahnmir

Wtf is this thread? Has everybody gone a bit Delete here?

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Gdemami

Ungood said:
when people underwrite life insurance they look at things like, overall physical health, Racial ethnic, Religious belief, education, life style, even employment, and using all those factors, that can make a better prediction

...please explain to me how my belief and ethnicity affect my life expectancy.

While you are at it, tips are welcomed, I am considering converting and changing my traditions...

Shelvinarr

delete5230 said:

Roughly about 15 out of 40 get it.   

I actually ran a test to see the percentage of level head people verses the I want it all.  The test question was "extreme low graphics, would you play".  

Seems people don't understand budgets and economics much like real life.  Here in America people want "health care for all"…… They refuse to face WHO WILL PAY FOR IT, huge amounts of other ramifications go along with it, many unsolvable.   They want it, insist on it and can't be bargained with.  What's their defense or counter clam ?..... They attack with non relevant facts, much like I'll be getting for this post.  They can't handle it so they go berserk.   

Any company or indie is on a budget.  Before venturing they have to make an outline much like a carpenter preparing to build a house.  Estimated cost and what the end results will be.  

Graphics cost money, everyone seems to agree, I give credit for that (40 out of 40).  But they insist on both, this is where it gets shaky (15 out of 40).  In the test, one person stood out stating its work not cost, problem being time is money also.  The exceptional greatness is, his project runs on passion so I can understand.

I'll give more credit because some understand and will settle for far less of a game ( 30 days of content).

Historical exceptions: World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, GuildWars 2, Black Desert Online. 

Mmorpgs are at a low, some can't face it.  It's the same problem different topic. 

We don't have any choices, we can't offer opinions or help…..None of us can fix the problem.  Unfortunately there is no answer as long as 25 million out of 40 million don't understand budgets and economics or settle for far less. 

Good news, An indie will rise from the ashes like a thief in the night.  

 

Give and take,

Decisions have to be made.  If your shopping for groceries with very little money and chose to fill your cart anyway it gets real at checkout.  As pain full as is reality sets in at some point.  This is where credit cards step in.  Defer the problem deal with it later, OR NOT.

Very well thought out and constructed post. I had no idea this was going to be a politically charged thread when I opened it, but I was surprised. Now, let's break this problem down further, shall we? 

The "I want it all" crowd can be defined as entitled, they feel they deserve something for nothing. Where does this stem from? Culture. Culture has rapidly shifted more in the past twenty years, where as back in, let's say the 1950s, no one would demand free anything. Why is that? The cost of living was exponentially lower, but so were products/manufacturing costs, and technology was not as advanced. The culture was, if you worked hard, you'd get a return on your hard work. But now? Now, people expect to do nothing and receive the world. But, why shouldn't they? When governments prop up band-aid programs that are designed to help people land on their feet, instead people exploit these programs/systems in order to continue to do nothing and reap a wealth of benefits in the form of food (Foodstamps, WIC), a cellphone, reduced rent (Section 8 low income housing, in America at least), unemployment wages, etc. 

So as to your example, if you go grocery shopping and you load your trolly or cart up, in America, it doesn't get real for everyone. Why? Because some people, have food stamps, and it's not their money they are spending. It's the collective of Americans paying for their food. Now, don't get me wrong, there is no shame in utilizing the system/program as it was intended. If you fall on hard times, by all means, these programs exist to help you get back on your feet and resume being a productive member of society. But, all these entitled leeches ruin and sully the name of these programs. 

The only way to get rid of the entitled ideologies of the people is to wake them up, remove these programs that they are suctioned to. But, you would have to alter the culture. So, enjoy the crap fest of subpar games, microtransactions, P2W mechanics, and overall cash grabs that companies continue to produce because we as a community of gamers aren't voting the way we should by abstaining from spending our money on their crappy products.

Ungood

Utinni said:

Ungood said:

Utinni said:

Ungood said:

Ok, legit, in America, for "Universal Health" it would have to be a Much smaller country. Sorry, but America's diversity and bulk make it very hard for that kind of plan to work. 


In the few counties that are near as large as America that have some kind of public health, like China, they have the cultural diversity of a bar of ivory soap.

This is just an excuse. It's sad the most powerful country in the world makes excuses. 

 Also China has 56 different ethnic groups. I'd say that's more diverse than a bar of ivory soap.

Those 56 different "ethic" groups, which are just variations of Chinese, like the difference between an Englishman and Scotsman (and America is so diverse we can't even use that kind of system without hitting the 100's), still only make up roughly 8%. So yah.. Ivory Soap.

Ohhh ok so if they're the same color they have the same culture. Gotcha! 

LOL.. have you  been paying attention? America classifies entire demographics of people that have hundreds if not thousands of historical and cultural differences as "White"... take some time.. and let that sink in.

Ungood

Utinni said:

Ungood said:

VengeSunsoar said:

Actually many studies have shown that the larger the population the easier and better UHS works.

Not really, the larger the population the more uniform it needs to become for the system to work, IE: Everyone needs to have similar to identical work, lifestyle and health ethics. The more diverse the population, the less uniformity, you have too much chaos to make the system work well.

Case in point, lets use life insurance, the idea behind selling life insurance is that the life expectancy of a single person is totally uncertain, they could live another 50 years, they could die tomorrow, while the life expectancy of a million people is far more predictable.

So that was the idea, selling millions upon millions of policies and having everything balance out.

But even using that millions of people system, each policy is individually written for the person, because they still need to break people down into smaller groups to find out their more accurate life expectancy, so when people underwrite life insurance they look at things like, overall physical health, Racial ethnic, Religious belief, education, life style, even employment, and using all those factors, that can make a better prediction, based on all the other people that fall into the same categories. 

This is why in a country like China, where 91% of the population is Han Chinese, where they all more homogeneous, it is far easier to provide a blanket health care for them, just like it would be far easier to underwrite life insurance for them, as a one-policy-fits-all would be a viable option.

Where at the same time, just like life insurance, the more unique a person is, or the less Homogenizes the group is, the harder it is to make a blanket system that can work for all of them, just like the harder it would be for a one-policy-fits all life insurance with a more diverse group.

America is a very unique country in this regard, which is why we are having the problems we are having.

Same with a video game, the more they try to build for everyone, the less they end up building for anyone, even something like WoW, with all it's numbers, there were a lot of people that it did not click with, or simply did not like it.

The ol "it's complicated so it's impossible" argument. 

Well at least you kept it short that you didn't understand my  point at all. 

Ungood

Sharne said:

Ungood said:

Sharne said:

So just to settle this, clarify are you talking about racial diversity or cultural diversity, because you know they are different right?

Ya know, this is cute, and it really shows how little the diversity must be out there in other countries, see in America, Racial is pretty much the only way we can split up the country, so for us, Cultural/Racial are kind of the same thing, because if we tried anything else, we would be somewhere in the thousands of different cultural groups.

As I said, in America we are one of the most diverse nations in the world, and to really grasp that, our Asian Population alone which makes up only 5+% of our country, is more Culturally diverse than the entire Cultural Diversity of China.

And I really think people don't get that.

Gosh yes your right, there is no diversity whatsoever in the UK, we all look like Boris Johnson and talk with an accent like Hugh Grant...…...

If you cant see that classing all Americans who are not white in a different cultural group to all white Americans is fundamentally flawed, I can't help but pity your ignorance.

You talk of Cultural Diversity and yet use "White" as if all "white" people are culturally the exact same.

Funny how people cling to the same flawed logic they call flawed logic.

Edit Added:

Since this discussion has devolved to petty bickering, I don't see any advantage to continuing it with you,so unless you have something to talk about that is on topic, I am simply going to ignore any further trolling of my posts.

laserit

Ungood said:

Sharne said:

So just to settle this, clarify are you talking about racial diversity or cultural diversity, because you know they are different right?

Ya know, this is cute, and it really shows how little the diversity must be out there in other countries, see in America, Racial is pretty much the only way we can split up the country, so for us, Cultural/Racial are kind of the same thing, because if we tried anything else, we would be somewhere in the thousands of different cultural groups.

As I said, in America we are one of the most diverse nations in the world, and to really grasp that, our Asian Population alone which makes up only 5+% of our country, is more Culturally diverse than the entire Cultural Diversity of China.

And I really think people don't get that.

Canada is just as racially and culturally diverse as the U.S. 

Yes our country has smaller population which is 1/10 the population.

The only thing our federal government does concerning our health care is dole out a percentage of the funds and defines what is minimal care. The provinces pick up the rest.

Each province controls how and what is covered. Procedures that are covered in one province may not be covered in another province.

In Canada we don’t have a single universal healthcare. We have one for each province and territory.

Imho the population argument is null and void. The only argument is what are the nation’s priorities. 

Ungood

laserit said:

Ungood said:

Sharne said:

So just to settle this, clarify are you talking about racial diversity or cultural diversity, because you know they are different right?

Ya know, this is cute, and it really shows how little the diversity must be out there in other countries, see in America, Racial is pretty much the only way we can split up the country, so for us, Cultural/Racial are kind of the same thing, because if we tried anything else, we would be somewhere in the thousands of different cultural groups.

As I said, in America we are one of the most diverse nations in the world, and to really grasp that, our Asian Population alone which makes up only 5+% of our country, is more Culturally diverse than the entire Cultural Diversity of China.

And I really think people don't get that.

Canada is just as racially and culturally diverse as the U.S. 

Yes our country has smaller population which is 1/10 the population.

The only thing our federal government does concerning our health care is dole out a percentage of the funds and defines what is minimal care. The provinces pick up the rest.

Each province controls how and what is covered. Procedures that are covered in one province may not be covered in another province.

In Canada we don’t have a single universal healthcare. We have one for each province and territory.

The imho population argument is null and void. 

I could see a State Run health care system, (Some stats have even already adopted a State Heath care system) as opposed to one run by the federal Government, working for America. The problem is, I believe the Federal Government would just fuck shit up, like they have with everything else.