I ran a test, the results are not good

Iselin

Cryomatrix said:

There are issues and pros and cons with any healthcare system. 

Pros of US healthcare.
We basically had an infant on my service who pretty much had an insidious heart problem that ended up with the kid needing to be placed on ECMO. More than life support basically. Look up the acronym.

Either way, kid died basically and if we didnt have an amazing nearby hospital that flew in by helicopter to pick up the kid, he would have died.

Not sure how many countries have ECMO available and only top cities have ECMO.

Yeah we have that.

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/events-and-entertainment/vancouver-general-hospital-hailed-as-north-american-leader-in-advanced-life-support-1947278

Asm0deus

Don't kid yourself ecmo is available in other countries too including Canada as well as other similar procedures like ecpr

Amaranthar

In Canada, you're not allowed to pay for your own health issues with your own cash, if it's covered (and most things are) by their universal healthcare? 

Even the Chinese were shocked. 
How'd this lawsuit end up, if it's over yet? 

"The nub of the plaintiffs’ case is that, if the government is not able to provide timely medical treatment to persons suffering on long waiting lists, it cannot at the same time legally prohibit these patients from taking control of the their own health and arranging for private treatment within the province."

and...

"“Stop there,” the translator said. “It’s that last part that is confusing the delegation. They think you’re saying that Canadians cannot spend their own money on medically-necessary health care.”

Yes, he assured them, that’s right.

The translator pressed him: “You mean to say that if you’re sick and want to pay for treatment, that you aren’t allowed to? Even though it’s your own money and there is a doctor willing to accept it?”

Yes, that’s right.

There was a pause as the translator relayed the answer to the delegation and the delegation conferred among themselves. Finally, the translator spoke up: “They say that even the Chinese communist system is not this restrictive!”" 

https://torontosun.com/2016/10/06/canadian-health-care-is-even-more-restrictive-than-communist-chinas/wcm/46a3f11d-4b40-4b27-b99d-4ec6ddeb08a0  

This is why people don't like big government. They can get carried away with overreaching controls at any time, at their own whim. 

You have to watch them all the time, and even then they'll try to sneak things passed you. 

Asm0deus

Amaranthar said:

In Canada, you're not allowed to pay for your own health issues with your own cash, if it's covered (and most things are) by their universal healthcare? 

Even the Chinese were shocked. 
How'd this lawsuit end up, if it's over yet? 

"The nub of the plaintiffs’ case is that, if the government is not able to provide timely medical treatment to persons suffering on long waiting lists, it cannot at the same time legally prohibit these patients from taking control of the their own health and arranging for private treatment within the province."

and...

"“Stop there,” the translator said. “It’s that last part that is confusing the delegation. They think you’re saying that Canadians cannot spend their own money on medically-necessary health care.”

Yes, he assured them, that’s right.

The translator pressed him: “You mean to say that if you’re sick and want to pay for treatment, that you aren’t allowed to? Even though it’s your own money and there is a doctor willing to accept it?”

Yes, that’s right.

There was a pause as the translator relayed the answer to the delegation and the delegation conferred among themselves. Finally, the translator spoke up: “They say that even the Chinese communist system is not this restrictive!”" 

https://torontosun.com/2016/10/06/canadian-health-care-is-even-more-restrictive-than-communist-chinas/wcm/46a3f11d-4b40-4b27-b99d-4ec6ddeb08a0  

This is why people don't like big government. They can get carried away with overreaching controls at any time, at their own whim. 

You have to watch them all the time, and even then they'll try to sneak things passed you. 

That a ridiculous statement. The system isn't restrictive, it's set up to stop abuses by people with fat bank accounts.

Treatment is provided in a who needs it first basis in that if you are a rich white man you can't spend cash to jump ahead of some poor kid whos case is more urgent.

That said if you are a rich person and want to skip ahead there plenty of countries like the USA, mexico or cuba etc you can go to and pay for treatment and to skip ahead of others.

It's this mentality that peeps in the US have that's retarded and they have been conned into believing that somehow if you can't pay or grease someone hands for preferential treatment it's somehow "restrictive"......

It's akin to a politician being all full of righteous anger that he can't accept bribes and line his pockets because you know it's the American way and peeps should be free to do so cause you know ma fweedoms!

Heh that article is an over exaggerated BS piece written by Howard Anglin who has an agenda and clearly would like Canada's system to be like in the USA.

Ungood

Amaranthar said:

This is why people don't like big government. They can get carried away with overreaching controls at any time, at their own whim. 

You have to watch them all the time, and even then they'll try to sneak things passed you. 

I have to agree with you here. Yes, Americans want health coverage, I mean like Fuck Ya, sign me up for some of that free shit. 

The problem is.. well.. long story short.. the "Who" would be in charge of their health coverage.

laserit

Amaranthar said:

In Canada, you're not allowed to pay for your own health issues with your own cash, if it's covered (and most things are) by their universal healthcare? 

Even the Chinese were shocked. 
How'd this lawsuit end up, if it's over yet? 

"The nub of the plaintiffs’ case is that, if the government is not able to provide timely medical treatment to persons suffering on long waiting lists, it cannot at the same time legally prohibit these patients from taking control of the their own health and arranging for private treatment within the province."

and...

"“Stop there,” the translator said. “It’s that last part that is confusing the delegation. They think you’re saying that Canadians cannot spend their own money on medically-necessary health care.”

Yes, he assured them, that’s right.

The translator pressed him: “You mean to say that if you’re sick and want to pay for treatment, that you aren’t allowed to? Even though it’s your own money and there is a doctor willing to accept it?”

Yes, that’s right.

There was a pause as the translator relayed the answer to the delegation and the delegation conferred among themselves. Finally, the translator spoke up: “They say that even the Chinese communist system is not this restrictive!”" 

https://torontosun.com/2016/10/06/canadian-health-care-is-even-more-restrictive-than-communist-chinas/wcm/46a3f11d-4b40-4b27-b99d-4ec6ddeb08a0  

This is why people don't like big government. They can get carried away with overreaching controls at any time, at their own whim. 

You have to watch them all the time, and even then they'll try to sneak things passed you. 

Not exactly accurate.

As a Canadian you buy what ever medical services you so desire and many do. Where the restrictions come in, is where and what private medical services you can offer.

Cryomatrix

Asm0deus said:

Don't kid yourself ecmo is available in other countries too including Canada as well as other similar procedures like ecpr

I wasnt denying whether canada has ECMO vs the US, more making a point of america having top end stuff and it really is only in the regional centers. It is a positive of the US health system that othee countries also have

Asm0deus

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

The Legatum Institute's Prosperity Index ranked at 149 countries in several different categories, including healthcare. This report looks at factors including health infrastructure, basic mental and physical health, and the availability of preventative care. Based on the latest report, the following countries were found to have the best healthcare:

Canada
Qatar
France
Norway
New Zealand
Germany
Hong Kong
The Netherlands
Switzerland
Singapore
Luxembourg
Japan
Sweden

Switzerland's health care is universal and health insurance is required for all persons living in Switzerland. Unlike other European countries, Swiss healthcare is not tax-based or financed by employers, but rather it is paid for by individuals through their contribution to Swiss healthcare schemes. There are no free state-provided health services, but basic health insurance coverage covers 80-90% of healthcare costs, including outpatient treatment, emergency treatment, prescriptions, maternal medicine, vaccinations, post-operation rehabilitation, and more. Switzerland combines private, subsidized private, and public healthcare systems to provide its citizens with a large network of qualified doctors, best-equipped medical facilities and hospitals, and no waiting lists.
...snip....

The USA isn't even in the top 30. https://www.prosperity.com/rankings Canada is ranked 25th while USA is ranked 59th. This is for overall health of it's citizen etc.

I have no illusions that the Canadian health care systems is the best in the world and that it can't be improved upon but it's by far better than what peeps have in the USA.

Some people can't see past the issues and have to make it about my country is better than yours or a anti commy thing.

Propaganda and fear mongering is alive and well sadly.

ultimateduck

Sovrath said:

My point still stands. You don't get to decide that. And sure, for the sake of discussion I do think people should be somewhat accountable for their lives. But in the end, some people aren't. Sometimes it makes sense and one can see why they ended up where they are and sometimes it seems like laziness.

But "we" all don't get a say. And even if we did and we withheld money from people who were "blobs" as you say, eventually something would happen and some organization would still have to take care of it.

I personally know of a someone who takes advantage of the system. Makes me angry. I've also know people who were helped by the system and actually became productive citizens. You just have to take the bad with the good.

Life is messy, it is what it is.

I do get to decide that by not voting for people who want a single payer system.

Asm0deus said:

That a ridiculous statement. The system isn't restrictive, it's set up to stop abuses by people with fat bank accounts.

Treatment is provided in a who needs it first basis in that if you are a rich white man you can't spend cash to jump ahead of some poor kid whos case is more urgent.

That said if you are a rich person and want to skip ahead there plenty of countries like the USA, mexico or cuba etc you can go to and pay for treatment and to skip ahead of others.

It's this mentality that peeps in the US have that's retarded and they have been conned into believing that somehow if you can't pay or grease someone hands for preferential treatment it's somehow "restrictive"......

It's akin to a politician being all full of righteous anger that he can't accept bribes and line his pockets because you know it's the American way and peeps should be free to do so cause you know ma fweedoms!

Heh that article is an over exaggerated BS piece written by Howard Anglin who has an agenda and clearly would like Canada's system to be like in the USA.

But it is that restrictive. If I wanted to purchase a private insurance plan in Canada that worked with private doctors, I can not. That has nothing to do with rich people abusing the system. It has to do with government oversight. Once the government is in charge of your healthcare, they can make whatever decisions they want regarding your health. A perfect example would be the UK healthcare system sentencing a child to death by refusing to allow the child's parents to take the kid to the U.S. for treatment.

Sovrath

ultimateduck said:

Sovrath said:

My point still stands. You don't get to decide that. And sure, for the sake of discussion I do think people should be somewhat accountable for their lives. But in the end, some people aren't. Sometimes it makes sense and one can see why they ended up where they are and sometimes it seems like laziness.

But "we" all don't get a say. And even if we did and we withheld money from people who were "blobs" as you say, eventually something would happen and some organization would still have to take care of it.

I personally know of a someone who takes advantage of the system. Makes me angry. I've also know people who were helped by the system and actually became productive citizens. You just have to take the bad with the good.

Life is messy, it is what it is.

I do get to decide that by not voting for people who want a single payer system.

well, yes, that's the system as I noted above. and other people get to vote for what they want and yadda, yadda, yadda.

Wasn't exactly what I meant just like I get to vote for the people who align with my values and concerns and in the end we have people who align with what we all want who get to fight it out.

laserit

ultimateduck said:

Sovrath said:

My point still stands. You don't get to decide that. And sure, for the sake of discussion I do think people should be somewhat accountable for their lives. But in the end, some people aren't. Sometimes it makes sense and one can see why they ended up where they are and sometimes it seems like laziness.

But "we" all don't get a say. And even if we did and we withheld money from people who were "blobs" as you say, eventually something would happen and some organization would still have to take care of it.

I personally know of a someone who takes advantage of the system. Makes me angry. I've also know people who were helped by the system and actually became productive citizens. You just have to take the bad with the good.

Life is messy, it is what it is.

I do get to decide that by not voting for people who want a single payer system.

Asm0deus said:

That a ridiculous statement. The system isn't restrictive, it's set up to stop abuses by people with fat bank accounts.

Treatment is provided in a who needs it first basis in that if you are a rich white man you can't spend cash to jump ahead of some poor kid whos case is more urgent.

That said if you are a rich person and want to skip ahead there plenty of countries like the USA, mexico or cuba etc you can go to and pay for treatment and to skip ahead of others.

It's this mentality that peeps in the US have that's retarded and they have been conned into believing that somehow if you can't pay or grease someone hands for preferential treatment it's somehow "restrictive"......

It's akin to a politician being all full of righteous anger that he can't accept bribes and line his pockets because you know it's the American way and peeps should be free to do so cause you know ma fweedoms!

Heh that article is an over exaggerated BS piece written by Howard Anglin who has an agenda and clearly would like Canada's system to be like in the USA.

But it is that restrictive. If I wanted to purchase a private insurance plan in Canada that worked with private doctors, I can not. That has nothing to do with rich people abusing the system. It has to do with government oversight. Once the government is in charge of your healthcare, they can make whatever decisions they want regarding your health. A perfect example would be the UK healthcare system sentencing a child to death by refusing to allow the child's parents to take the kid to the U.S. for treatment.

Not accurate

As a Canadian, I can purchase private healthcare insurance, I can even purchase American private healthcare insurance.

The UK government can't stop a parent from taking their child to the U.S. for treatment but they can refuse to pay for it.

I've also seen a number of stories over the years where the provincial government (federal government doesn't call the shots) has paid for treatments outside the country that are not available inside the country. Our public health insurance system might even be less restrictive than your private insurance healthcare system. Would your plan allow for treatment outside your country?

Asm0deus

ultimateduck said:

.

Asm0deus said:

That a ridiculous statement. The system isn't restrictive, it's set up to stop abuses by people with fat bank accounts.

Treatment is provided in a who needs it first basis in that if you are a rich white man you can't spend cash to jump ahead of some poor kid whos case is more urgent.

That said if you are a rich person and want to skip ahead there plenty of countries like the USA, mexico or cuba etc you can go to and pay for treatment and to skip ahead of others.

It's this mentality that peeps in the US have that's retarded and they have been conned into believing that somehow if you can't pay or grease someone hands for preferential treatment it's somehow "restrictive"......

It's akin to a politician being all full of righteous anger that he can't accept bribes and line his pockets because you know it's the American way and peeps should be free to do so cause you know ma fweedoms!

Heh that article is an over exaggerated BS piece written by Howard Anglin who has an agenda and clearly would like Canada's system to be like in the USA.

But it is that restrictive. If I wanted to purchase a private insurance plan in Canada that worked with private doctors, I can not. That has nothing to do with rich people abusing the system. It has to do with government oversight. Once the government is in charge of your healthcare, they can make whatever decisions they want regarding your health. A perfect example would be the UK healthcare system sentencing a child to death by refusing to allow the child's parents to take the kid to the U.S. for treatment.

No that's sloppy thinking.  You are wanting a "cheat" fueled by money.  It arse backwards thinking. As for the UK not allowing parents to bring their kids out of country for care..that BS they may have refused to pay for out of country care though which isn't the same thing.

My wife is from the UK and she lives here in Canada and the UK has fuck all to say about the health care she gets here.

If we are to go the scare mongering way though I can assure you the USA health care systems has killed a fuck load of people but you don't hear about it so much unless it happened to some rich fuck.

I broke my arm, both bones were clean breaks, when I was 6 years old in Maine just outside of Augusta and when my folks brought me to the hospital the doc was on break and had to nerve to tell my dad keep my crying and moaning down as it was disturbing him.

Any kind of issues or BS that happens that you bring forth as anecdotal evidence, and this can happen in any system, can easily be seen and far worse in the system in place in the USA.

The health care system in the US just like the criminal justice systems and is two tiered.... one for the poor and one for the rich.