What would it take to make you believe ?

delete5230

- some believe will have Pantheon with the next few years.
- some believe several more years.
- Some think the project will be canceled.
- some even believe it's been a sham all along.

For the ones that want the game, what would it take to make you feel comfortable.



I need to see a major city with all levels of players running around going about their business and talking to others. I need to see a market place with commerce happening..... The six player demo maps are WEAK EVIDENCE.





My opinion is this,
Any game developer is different and set's their own time table, in most cases they HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE.  But it's also my opinion they have a moral obligation to their backers.

I don't think any one should have to back pedal and research wording to defend Visionary Realms...... It's time, and that's that !..... Or at the very least  EXTREMELY STRONG EVIDENCE TO MAKE PEOPLE COMFORTABLE.


People are in disarray because the evidence is very weak !!!!..... don't you think by now it should be very strong ?



So what would it take to make you feel comfortable ?

  

Sovrath

I'm already comfortable.

I gave some money once I started seeing real progress, I fully know that means no guarantees and final game design could very well be different from initial promises.

I am also comfortable with the idea that it very well might not launch. I would even go so far as to say I am more in the "it won't launch" camp then "it will launch" and am willing to be pleasantly surprised.

Nanfoodle

For me its the game I want by the lead designer I love by a team that seems to get his vision. After Brad stepped down from running the company, VM has just taken off and we have seen some real progress. The content they have shown speaks to my inner geek. So at that point I pledged. If the game releases Im happy I backed the game. If it does not, I will move on without a thought. 

delete5230

Sovrath said:

I'm already comfortable.

I gave some money once I started seeing real progress, I fully know that means no guarantees and final game design could very well be different from initial promises.

I am also comfortable with the idea that it very well might not launch. I would even go so far as to say I am more in the "it won't launch" camp then "it will launch" and am willing to be pleasantly surprised.

I could appreciate other opinions on "real progress"...... I don't see it at all.

Just 6 player demo maps...... and mostly WORDING on class design. 


Sounds like you are going on pure faith EQUAL to the amount you had from the very beginning. 

Sovrath

delete5230 said:

Sovrath said:

I'm already comfortable.

I gave some money once I started seeing real progress, I fully know that means no guarantees and final game design could very well be different from initial promises.

I am also comfortable with the idea that it very well might not launch. I would even go so far as to say I am more in the "it won't launch" camp then "it will launch" and am willing to be pleasantly surprised.

I could appreciate other opinions on "real progress"...... I don't see it at all.

Just 6 player demo maps...... and mostly WORDING on class design. 


Sounds like you are going on pure faith EQUAL to the amount you had from the very beginning. 

We've gone back and forth on this topic so I will just reiterate that I don't agree with you.

And I still don't think it will launch but I also think you don't have a firm grasp on what they have shown.

Nanfoodle

delete5230 said:

Sovrath said:

I'm already comfortable.

I gave some money once I started seeing real progress, I fully know that means no guarantees and final game design could very well be different from initial promises.

I am also comfortable with the idea that it very well might not launch. I would even go so far as to say I am more in the "it won't launch" camp then "it will launch" and am willing to be pleasantly surprised.

I could appreciate other opinions on "real progress"...... I don't see it at all.

Just 6 player demo maps...... and mostly WORDING on class design. 


Sounds like you are going on pure faith EQUAL to the amount you had from the very beginning. 

So if you look at the couple of dungeons they have shown us over the years and the first pass on them. Then look at the current videos of these same dungeons. The improvements in textures, effects, lighting, fog effects, character models, animations of character movements. The progress is clear to see. If you check out videos by date and just skim through them. You really have to not want to see it to miss it. 

delete5230

Sovrath said:

delete5230 said:

Sovrath said:

I'm already comfortable.

I gave some money once I started seeing real progress, I fully know that means no guarantees and final game design could very well be different from initial promises.

I am also comfortable with the idea that it very well might not launch. I would even go so far as to say I am more in the "it won't launch" camp then "it will launch" and am willing to be pleasantly surprised.

I could appreciate other opinions on "real progress"...... I don't see it at all.

Just 6 player demo maps...... and mostly WORDING on class design. 


Sounds like you are going on pure faith EQUAL to the amount you had from the very beginning. 

We've gone back and forth on this topic so I will just reiterate that I don't agree with you.

And I still don't think it will launch but I also think you don't have a firm grasp on what they have shown.

Words mean nothing to me.  Words on a web site can be done on a $350 Laptop as the author is sitting at the back table of a bar or tavern. 

I've watched every video of game play VR has to offer.  Same old same old, 6 player demo maps with slight variations



Besides, this topic may not be for you since you have blind faith since inception.  Don't get me wrong, I think this is good Because some day will have this game.

Nanfoodle

This is the kickstarter video with many small clips of the game. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ODYfZO-FI


Gameplay video from 4 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oNVecHjiJI


Gameplay from over a year ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfxnPXjUFbo


Gameplay video from a 7 months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIqZEMCC5nA

Some ingame footage from a month ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztRKgU8N4Ro


If you dont see progress, you need to check your eyes

delete5230

Nanfoodle said:

This is the kickstarter video with many small clips of the game. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ODYfZO-FI


Gameplay video from 4 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oNVecHjiJI


Gameplay from over a year ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfxnPXjUFbo


Gameplay video from a 7 months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIqZEMCC5nA

Some ingame footage from a month ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztRKgU8N4Ro


If you dont see progress, you need to check your eyes

Honestly I DON'T !!!!!

same 6 player demo's.... Your actually helping prove me right

xpsync

I mean i hope it gets released ofc. but...

I'm home again, and that fact only dawned on me a week or so back, over the last year(s) i'll get a single player game and falls very flat fast.

I was all onboard for PSO in big way, and i dunno i'm playing SWG:L and Wow R/C and yeah i feel same way i did back when it was SWG and EQ2 i'm quite happy where i am.

To me bouncing around mmor's like a ball in a pinball machine has never been what mmorpg's are too me. Yet for a very long time in there that became the norm (hey, not saying i didn't have some fun in there) but mmorpg's should be f'ing massive with never ending stuff to do, a plethora of options.

But when wow hit the scene that all changed and mmorpg's turned into the new flavor of the month bite sized sugary snack. Then dropped and forgotten for being that way.

Constantly chasing that high again, that NEW HOME, and that bragging right to shutdown every poster with an opposing opinion, "WELL I"VE BEEN PLAYING SINCE BETA SO, yeah, stfu." and ofc you'd never hear from that poster ever again i mean you sure showed him lmao - I mean you get the idea.

Started with caving and trying the ever scary EMU and fell in love with SWG again, loving old school and totally missing out on wow retail's first years (EQ2 far superior mmorpg)

I thought wtf check classic out, and cherry on top my son who was only a couple year'ish old at that time was going to join me, and yeah omg it was all that... after trashing the game for a decade plus. lol Not getting it into that debate.

Waiting for classic i never played horde ever, the fam did play late wrath and BC to absolute f'ing death, why i'm still sick of those zones to this day, talk about over played.

But anyway thought check out Horde on retail as my son and i were going into classic as Horde (he's still 100% Alliance loyal in retail) not me, total f'ing trader lol, 100% Horde all the way now, but yeah retail seeped into me with me realizing it as well.

Now here i am a super f'ing happy mmorpg player again with more game and world than all mmorpg's that ever existed combined to delve into every day.

PSO was the nail, the straw, the epiphany lol which made me realize that i'm home again, i have SWG:L, WOW R/C and no interest in diverting my attention away from where i currently play.

Nanfoodle

delete5230 said:

Nanfoodle said:

This is the kickstarter video with many small clips of the game. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ODYfZO-FI


Gameplay video from 4 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oNVecHjiJI


Gameplay from over a year ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfxnPXjUFbo


Gameplay video from a 7 months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIqZEMCC5nA

Some ingame footage from a month ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztRKgU8N4Ro


If you dont see progress, you need to check your eyes

Honestly I DON'T !!!!!

same 6 player demo's.... Your actually helping prove me right

I suggest you stick with a 480p monitor and this fancy 4k thing everyone is jumping on, dont bother. 

Sovrath

delete5230 said:

Honestly I DON'T !!!!!

same 6 player demo's.... Your actually helping prove me right

I thought we were beyond this at this point?

First of all, we can clearly see the game looks better from the start.

Second, this game isn't launched. And it's not in beta. Annnnnd, whether or not you or anyone likes this, it's not in alpha.

so there aren't going to be huge groups of people running around. Though I do remember one of their videos came across a group of pre-alpha players while they were running an area.

They aren't going to round up 100 people so delete can feel better. They are just showing these specific areas and they put together a group of their developers, maybe a streamer, to show it.

They aren't showing raids or cities or anything like that. They are just showing specific dungeons/encounter areas.

Sovrath

delete5230 said:

Besides, this topic may not be for you since you have blind faith since inception.  Don't get me wrong, I think this is good Because some day will have this game.

Oh, to correct you, I didn't have blind faith from inception, I didn't give any money to their ill conceived kickstarter. And to add, I didn't give money until several dungeon runs were shown.

I was just an adult about the whole thing (per my first post in this thread.) Not a kid on Christmas morning who didn't get what he thought santa was going to bring.

goldwheat

So what would it take to make you feel comfortable ?

Not much. Just on-going best effort pledger access for testing, of the current daily build, with daily wipes.
And then, of course..

tzervo said:

Release with no more wipes.

As with any MMO, that's the real "launch", regardless of what the developers try to call it.

delete5230

Sovrath said:

delete5230 said:

Besides, this topic may not be for you since you have blind faith since inception.  Don't get me wrong, I think this is good Because some day will have this game.

Oh, to correct, you, I didn't have blind faith from inception, I didn't give any money to their ill conceived kickstarter. and to add, I didn't give money until several dungeon runs were shown.

I was just an adult about the whole thing (per my first post in this thread.) Not a kid on Christmas morning who didn't get what he thought santa was going to bring.

Sovrath said:

delete5230 said:

Besides, this topic may not be for you since you have blind faith since inception.  Don't get me wrong, I think this is good Because some day will have this game.

Oh, to correct, you, I didn't have blind faith from inception, I didn't give any money to their ill conceived kickstarter. and to add, I didn't give money until several dungeon runs were shown.

I was just an adult about the whole thing (per my first post in this thread.) Not a kid on Christmas morning who didn't get what he thought santa was going to bring.

This is my fault,
This Op was designed for the MANY if not the MAJORITY that are loosing confidence. 

You have that confidence and you voiced your opinion, nothing wrong with that. It's my fault I argued with you...... I apologize.



For the other ones, I'm asking what would make you believe.  

Sovrath

delete5230 said:

This is my fault,
This Op was designed for the MANY if not the MAJORITY that are loosing confidence. 

You have that confidence and you voiced your opinion, nothing wrong with that. It's my fault I argued with you...... I apologize.



For the other ones, I'm asking what would make you believe.  

So that's the thing delete,

I just went to the Pantheon forum because clearly you seem to be more in touch with them and are more familiar with all the angry posts that are being posted.

Except, that's not what I'm seeing. 

So can you be more specific to which posts on their forum are from those losing confidence?

Because I'm seeing people (surprisingly) saying that they are happy with how things are going and happy with the recent update.

Now, it's a large forum so I very well could have missed the rant posts but I can't seem to find them.

edit: I'll add, I just checked the first two pages and there is only one negative thread and it has nothing to do with Pantheon's late release or issues with development.

It has to do with using an excuse for "if you put something in game then people will have to use it."

(there are more angry posts on the Lord of the Rings Online forums)

Sovrath

It must be on another forum or section. I went 5 pages in and it's surprisingly civil and adult with people discussing things such as what will be in game, should camping be brought back, that sort of thing.

Wellspring

delete5230 said:

Words mean nothing to me. 

For someone who believes that, you certainly use a lot of them!

Tokken

I think it will happen and I believe.  It will be a Joyous day when it launches, even if it is a bad launch lol.  I have waited for a new MMORPG that comes from old ideas.  EQ, VG, etc. It will be worth the wait!

Slapshot1188

While I HOPE it gets released as we really need a good old-fashioned PvE game...  at this point the only thing that will make me BELIEVE it will be released is when I can download it on launch day.

Mendel

I think it is not going to be able to convince me.  Yes, it is likely to launch.  Maybe it will appeal to many people, maybe even far more than I expect.  Maybe it will even be popular and have many players well past the one year mark.  Pantheon will probably not entice me to play it, though, as it is a rehash of old ideas.  VR probably has too much invested into these old ideas to change at this stage.

For Pantheon to appeal to me, it would need to challenge the ideas of older games, not emulate them.  If there is a wonderful mechanic that another game introduced, I can still play that older game (for the most part).  I want to see new.  Innovation.  An evolution of the game experience.  I don't expect that from a game that embraces the old ideas as much as Pantheon and its supporters.

Innovation requires talent and inspiration, as well as a management team willing to take risks with things that haven't been tried before.  Taking steps requires walking, and too many businesses are content with crawling.  Funding something unprecedented is costly, a bad word in accounting circles.

Pantheon is not a game that will appeal to me.  It isn't a game for me.  I will give it a chance only to ensure I won't be missing out on something I really want to play, despite the marketing to the contrary.  (Marketing people *can* be wrong).

Nanfoodle

Mendel said:

I think it is not going to be able to convince me.  Yes, it is likely to launch.  Maybe it will appeal to many people, maybe even far more than I expect.  Maybe it will even be popular and have many players well past the one year mark.  Pantheon will probably not entice me to play it, though, as it is a rehash of old ideas.  VR probably has too much invested into these old ideas to change at this stage.

For Pantheon to appeal to me, it would need to challenge the ideas of older games, not emulate them.  If there is a wonderful mechanic that another game introduced, I can still play that older game (for the most part).  I want to see new.  Innovation.  An evolution of the game experience.  I don't expect that from a game that embraces the old ideas as much as Pantheon and its supporters.

Innovation requires talent and inspiration, as well as a management team willing to take risks with things that haven't been tried before.  Taking steps requires walking, and too many businesses are content with crawling.  Funding something unprecedented is costly, a bad word in accounting circles.

Pantheon is not a game that will appeal to me.  It isn't a game for me.  I will give it a chance only to ensure I won't be missing out on something I really want to play, despite the marketing to the contrary.  (Marketing people *can* be wrong).

I think you have not been watching the videos on this game. They are taking the standard Tab targeting, trinity, class interdependence model that helps people make a community. But beyond that, this is a modern MMO in every way. They are carving out their own game. But if you are not interested thats your choice but know what you posted it far from the reality of development being done.   

Nanfoodle

If it helps, here are some of the things Pantheon is doing to push MMOs forward. 

The Pantheon Difference

• An MMO Evolved

  Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen will likely be a fundamentally different game compared to what you may have experienced playing other modern MMORPGs. From the moment you log in you will notice that the game is more social and has an emphasis on cooperative play. The monsters are often tougher and exploration is more involved. You will need friends in the game and your reputation can either help you progress or hinder it. Death in-game is meaningful and you’ll want to avoid it when possible. You’ll learn your surroundings and the lay of the land, spending meaningful time in each area and not just running through as quickly as possible to collect ten hides. You will need strategy, cunning and endurance to uncover all that Pantheon has to offer. You will find yourself in group and guild chats as you strategize or even just to pass the time between battles. Pantheon is social, thought-provoking, and the memories from your experiences in Terminus will last a lifetime.
  

• Atmosphere/Climate System

  One of Pantheon’s tenets is ‘Engage the World!’ When we talk about being a PvE MMO, our definition of ‘environment’ means a lot more than just fighting NPCs -- players will be contending with the world itself. Some regions will be very hot or cold. Some areas within a zone might be enchanted with complete darkness, or silence (meaning spoken spells won't work), or poison or miasma. Small tornados could travel through a region, compelling players to work their way around them, not through them, lest they take significant damage. Also, certain spells may work better or worse (or even only work) depending on the climate or atmosphere -- for example, a 'Call Lightning' spell could deal more damage than a typical ‘lightning bolt’ spell but could only be cast if there is a storm in the region.
  

• Powerful Spells and Abilities: The Living Codex

  In MMOs it is common to find rare items out in the world, by adventuring or by crafting, but abilities and spells are more often learned from trainers or even just given to player when his or her character levels up. In Pantheon, however, many of the more rare and exotic spells and abilities are found not at the local trainer but from a wise sage hiding in the depths of a dungeon or at the top of a remote tower.
  Learn more
  

• Dynamic NPC Encounter Groups

  The world is not static and unchanging – every day is not ‘groundhog’ day. Events occur that can completely change the population of a zone or the population of a group of NPCs within a zone (and the rarer the event, the rarer the rewards -- many exotic items can only be obtained when one of these zone events occur). An example: after you kill some key mobs guarding a hill giant camp, this triggers a zone event that loads up an invading force of Storm Giants who then proceed to attack the Hill Giant camp.
  

• NPC Dispositions and Behaviors

  An area we have not seen much innovation in MMORPGs, almost since their inception, is the area of NPC AI. What if certain enemies had different “dispositions” that had to be discovered by the player? Many NPCs in Pantheon will have advanced behaviors, like the propensity to flee if possible, or to stand and fight to the end. Some NPCs will be inclined to help other NPCs in the area, while some will not. Some will target certain classes within the group that is attacking them. NPC’s movement speeds may vary if they feel they are outmatched. While it is too early to go into a lot of detail, some of the different dispositions we are working on include: the Alarmist, the Bully, the Craven, the Opportunist, the Protector, and the Strategist.
  

• Colored Mana System

  Different classes will use different colors of mana. Some rare abilities, spells, and prayers will use more than one color of mana. These exotic abilities create an opportunity to sub-class your character, allowing players to customize their class to a degree, but without removing the interdependence between classes that is key to group content and building community.
  

• Progeny System

  Players will be able to 'retire' high level characters and then create their children as new characters, but these new characters, the 'progeny', will have certain abilities, stats, etc. that make them slightly yet noticeably better than a completely brand new character (but not to the point that it unbalances things).
  

• Situational Gear

  In Pantheon, there often won't simply be a weapon or piece of gear that is the absolute best item for your character’s class and level. Instead, many items will be more situational, and the player will need to ask himself, 'where am I?', 'what am I going to fight next?', and 'who in my group is what class, and what items do they have that may help defeat the next encounter?' Items that protect against climates/atmospheres (areas of extreme heat or cold, or disease, or absolute darkness) will often be important. So also will 'bane' items that are especially effective against certain types of mobs (for example, the Undead, or Dragonkind).
  

• The Perception System

  One of the most profound things about Pantheon is how we are designing the game from the ground up so that the Environment truly matters – we want players to care about the world they are in, and why things are the way they are. When you think of MMOs, when is the last time you discovered the meaning, or the history, or the secrets of a person, place or event without being told by a text box? What if we’ve conceived of a way to bring players back to exploring because they are compelled by what they see in front of them - not because a blinking light tells them to go there? In Pantheon, Wizards will be able to perceive things that a Warrior cannot. Through prayer, a Cleric may gain insight into an area, or a creature, that a Rogue could never know. Through our perception system, Pantheon will redefine how the game world becomes known, and how players will work together to progress.

Mendel

Nanfoodle said:

Mendel said:

I think it is not going to be able to convince me.  Yes, it is likely to launch.  Maybe it will appeal to many people, maybe even far more than I expect.  Maybe it will even be popular and have many players well past the one year mark.  Pantheon will probably not entice me to play it, though, as it is a rehash of old ideas.  VR probably has too much invested into these old ideas to change at this stage.

For Pantheon to appeal to me, it would need to challenge the ideas of older games, not emulate them.  If there is a wonderful mechanic that another game introduced, I can still play that older game (for the most part).  I want to see new.  Innovation.  An evolution of the game experience.  I don't expect that from a game that embraces the old ideas as much as Pantheon and its supporters.

Innovation requires talent and inspiration, as well as a management team willing to take risks with things that haven't been tried before.  Taking steps requires walking, and too many businesses are content with crawling.  Funding something unprecedented is costly, a bad word in accounting circles.

Pantheon is not a game that will appeal to me.  It isn't a game for me.  I will give it a chance only to ensure I won't be missing out on something I really want to play, despite the marketing to the contrary.  (Marketing people *can* be wrong).

I think you have not been watching the videos on this game. They are taking the standard Tab targeting, trinity, class interdependence model that helps people make a community. But beyond that, this is a modern MMO in every way. They are carving out their own game. But if you are not interested thats your choice but know what you posted it far from the reality of development being done.   

I have seen most of the videos.  I just don't come to the same conclusion that you seem to.  I see Pantheon as not producing anything new, in some cases, simply renaming components of older systems.  There's nothing that strikes me really innovative to me.

"Making a community" isn't a vital part of game development.  Communities will form or not, depending on the success of the game.

Kyleran

Nanfoodle said:

If it helps, here are some of the things Pantheon is doing to push MMOs forward. 

The Pantheon Difference

• An MMO Evolved

  Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen will likely be a fundamentally different game compared to what you may have experienced playing other modern MMORPGs. From the moment you log in you will notice that the game is more social and has an emphasis on cooperative play. The monsters are often tougher and exploration is more involved. You will need friends in the game and your reputation can either help you progress or hinder it. Death in-game is meaningful and you’ll want to avoid it when possible. You’ll learn your surroundings and the lay of the land, spending meaningful time in each area and not just running through as quickly as possible to collect ten hides. You will need strategy, cunning and endurance to uncover all that Pantheon has to offer. You will find yourself in group and guild chats as you strategize or even just to pass the time between battles. Pantheon is social, thought-provoking, and the memories from your experiences in Terminus will last a lifetime.
  

• Atmosphere/Climate System

  One of Pantheon’s tenets is ‘Engage the World!’ When we talk about being a PvE MMO, our definition of ‘environment’ means a lot more than just fighting NPCs -- players will be contending with the world itself. Some regions will be very hot or cold. Some areas within a zone might be enchanted with complete darkness, or silence (meaning spoken spells won't work), or poison or miasma. Small tornados could travel through a region, compelling players to work their way around them, not through them, lest they take significant damage. Also, certain spells may work better or worse (or even only work) depending on the climate or atmosphere -- for example, a 'Call Lightning' spell could deal more damage than a typical ‘lightning bolt’ spell but could only be cast if there is a storm in the region.
  

• Powerful Spells and Abilities: The Living Codex

  In MMOs it is common to find rare items out in the world, by adventuring or by crafting, but abilities and spells are more often learned from trainers or even just given to player when his or her character levels up. In Pantheon, however, many of the more rare and exotic spells and abilities are found not at the local trainer but from a wise sage hiding in the depths of a dungeon or at the top of a remote tower.
  Learn more
  

• Dynamic NPC Encounter Groups

  The world is not static and unchanging – every day is not ‘groundhog’ day. Events occur that can completely change the population of a zone or the population of a group of NPCs within a zone (and the rarer the event, the rarer the rewards -- many exotic items can only be obtained when one of these zone events occur). An example: after you kill some key mobs guarding a hill giant camp, this triggers a zone event that loads up an invading force of Storm Giants who then proceed to attack the Hill Giant camp.
  

• NPC Dispositions and Behaviors

  An area we have not seen much innovation in MMORPGs, almost since their inception, is the area of NPC AI. What if certain enemies had different “dispositions” that had to be discovered by the player? Many NPCs in Pantheon will have advanced behaviors, like the propensity to flee if possible, or to stand and fight to the end. Some NPCs will be inclined to help other NPCs in the area, while some will not. Some will target certain classes within the group that is attacking them. NPC’s movement speeds may vary if they feel they are outmatched. While it is too early to go into a lot of detail, some of the different dispositions we are working on include: the Alarmist, the Bully, the Craven, the Opportunist, the Protector, and the Strategist.
  

• Colored Mana System

  Different classes will use different colors of mana. Some rare abilities, spells, and prayers will use more than one color of mana. These exotic abilities create an opportunity to sub-class your character, allowing players to customize their class to a degree, but without removing the interdependence between classes that is key to group content and building community.
  

• Progeny System

  Players will be able to 'retire' high level characters and then create their children as new characters, but these new characters, the 'progeny', will have certain abilities, stats, etc. that make them slightly yet noticeably better than a completely brand new character (but not to the point that it unbalances things).
  

• Situational Gear

  In Pantheon, there often won't simply be a weapon or piece of gear that is the absolute best item for your character’s class and level. Instead, many items will be more situational, and the player will need to ask himself, 'where am I?', 'what am I going to fight next?', and 'who in my group is what class, and what items do they have that may help defeat the next encounter?' Items that protect against climates/atmospheres (areas of extreme heat or cold, or disease, or absolute darkness) will often be important. So also will 'bane' items that are especially effective against certain types of mobs (for example, the Undead, or Dragonkind).
  

• The Perception System

  One of the most profound things about Pantheon is how we are designing the game from the ground up so that the Environment truly matters – we want players to care about the world they are in, and why things are the way they are. When you think of MMOs, when is the last time you discovered the meaning, or the history, or the secrets of a person, place or event without being told by a text box? What if we’ve conceived of a way to bring players back to exploring because they are compelled by what they see in front of them - not because a blinking light tells them to go there? In Pantheon, Wizards will be able to perceive things that a Warrior cannot. Through prayer, a Cleric may gain insight into an area, or a creature, that a Rogue could never know. Through our perception system, Pantheon will redefine how the game world becomes known, and how players will work together to progress.

Goals are good, but I have to ask how much of the above has actually been seen in actual gameplay?

Not so much I'm thinking, most of the video I've seen has been of mostly standard stuff seen in other games.

Yeah yeah, save me the "they don't want to spoil the surprise" BS devs love to throw out when the bulk of their project is no where to be seen.

The only real surprise would be if they delivered half of that stuff in my lifetime.

  

Nanfoodle

Kyleran said:

Nanfoodle said:

If it helps, here are some of the things Pantheon is doing to push MMOs forward. 

The Pantheon Difference

• An MMO Evolved

  Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen will likely be a fundamentally different game compared to what you may have experienced playing other modern MMORPGs. From the moment you log in you will notice that the game is more social and has an emphasis on cooperative play. The monsters are often tougher and exploration is more involved. You will need friends in the game and your reputation can either help you progress or hinder it. Death in-game is meaningful and you’ll want to avoid it when possible. You’ll learn your surroundings and the lay of the land, spending meaningful time in each area and not just running through as quickly as possible to collect ten hides. You will need strategy, cunning and endurance to uncover all that Pantheon has to offer. You will find yourself in group and guild chats as you strategize or even just to pass the time between battles. Pantheon is social, thought-provoking, and the memories from your experiences in Terminus will last a lifetime.
  

• Atmosphere/Climate System

  One of Pantheon’s tenets is ‘Engage the World!’ When we talk about being a PvE MMO, our definition of ‘environment’ means a lot more than just fighting NPCs -- players will be contending with the world itself. Some regions will be very hot or cold. Some areas within a zone might be enchanted with complete darkness, or silence (meaning spoken spells won't work), or poison or miasma. Small tornados could travel through a region, compelling players to work their way around them, not through them, lest they take significant damage. Also, certain spells may work better or worse (or even only work) depending on the climate or atmosphere -- for example, a 'Call Lightning' spell could deal more damage than a typical ‘lightning bolt’ spell but could only be cast if there is a storm in the region.
  

• Powerful Spells and Abilities: The Living Codex

  In MMOs it is common to find rare items out in the world, by adventuring or by crafting, but abilities and spells are more often learned from trainers or even just given to player when his or her character levels up. In Pantheon, however, many of the more rare and exotic spells and abilities are found not at the local trainer but from a wise sage hiding in the depths of a dungeon or at the top of a remote tower.
  Learn more
  

• Dynamic NPC Encounter Groups

  The world is not static and unchanging – every day is not ‘groundhog’ day. Events occur that can completely change the population of a zone or the population of a group of NPCs within a zone (and the rarer the event, the rarer the rewards -- many exotic items can only be obtained when one of these zone events occur). An example: after you kill some key mobs guarding a hill giant camp, this triggers a zone event that loads up an invading force of Storm Giants who then proceed to attack the Hill Giant camp.
  

• NPC Dispositions and Behaviors

  An area we have not seen much innovation in MMORPGs, almost since their inception, is the area of NPC AI. What if certain enemies had different “dispositions” that had to be discovered by the player? Many NPCs in Pantheon will have advanced behaviors, like the propensity to flee if possible, or to stand and fight to the end. Some NPCs will be inclined to help other NPCs in the area, while some will not. Some will target certain classes within the group that is attacking them. NPC’s movement speeds may vary if they feel they are outmatched. While it is too early to go into a lot of detail, some of the different dispositions we are working on include: the Alarmist, the Bully, the Craven, the Opportunist, the Protector, and the Strategist.
  

• Colored Mana System

  Different classes will use different colors of mana. Some rare abilities, spells, and prayers will use more than one color of mana. These exotic abilities create an opportunity to sub-class your character, allowing players to customize their class to a degree, but without removing the interdependence between classes that is key to group content and building community.
  

• Progeny System

  Players will be able to 'retire' high level characters and then create their children as new characters, but these new characters, the 'progeny', will have certain abilities, stats, etc. that make them slightly yet noticeably better than a completely brand new character (but not to the point that it unbalances things).
  

• Situational Gear

  In Pantheon, there often won't simply be a weapon or piece of gear that is the absolute best item for your character’s class and level. Instead, many items will be more situational, and the player will need to ask himself, 'where am I?', 'what am I going to fight next?', and 'who in my group is what class, and what items do they have that may help defeat the next encounter?' Items that protect against climates/atmospheres (areas of extreme heat or cold, or disease, or absolute darkness) will often be important. So also will 'bane' items that are especially effective against certain types of mobs (for example, the Undead, or Dragonkind).
  

• The Perception System

  One of the most profound things about Pantheon is how we are designing the game from the ground up so that the Environment truly matters – we want players to care about the world they are in, and why things are the way they are. When you think of MMOs, when is the last time you discovered the meaning, or the history, or the secrets of a person, place or event without being told by a text box? What if we’ve conceived of a way to bring players back to exploring because they are compelled by what they see in front of them - not because a blinking light tells them to go there? In Pantheon, Wizards will be able to perceive things that a Warrior cannot. Through prayer, a Cleric may gain insight into an area, or a creature, that a Rogue could never know. Through our perception system, Pantheon will redefine how the game world becomes known, and how players will work together to progress.

Goals are good, but I have to ask how much of the above has actually been seen in actual gameplay?

Not so much I'm thinking, most of the video I've seen has been of mostly standard stuff seen in other games.

Yeah yeah, save me the "they don't want to spoil the surprise" BS devs love to throw out when the bulk of their project is no where to be seen.

The only real surprise would be if they delivered half of that stuff in my lifetime.

  

 Seen everything listed above in videos in action except the Progeny System.