Yes they do need to add new systems but they need to get certain systems down FIRST.EVERY single developer will aim for the EASIER stuff.Just look at Wow you think Blizzard can't afford to have a housing system,they won't and don't need to,it won't bring them more players and will only cost them money.
However there will never be another LUCKY game like Wow where we see a massive influx of new online rpg gamer's join the fray.It was only about 1-2 year prior that pretty much all households now had DSL and online gaming was becoming a huge craze. Yes EQ had it's game come out the same time EQ2 but that game did not have the star streamer power that Blizzard had.Streamers bring in the players and by the millions,they give a game it's popularity.
Dr.D and his buddy "forget his name"Made SOT a popular game that did not deserve ANY credibility.
My point is that you can no longer release mediocrity and expect there to be 12 million players just waiting to join your game.You now have to EARN your players unless of course you get a pile of popular streamers on board of which no other mmorpg besides Wow has ever done.Yes we saw Cohn Carnage being brought into the Pantheon marketing but he has in reality shown NO INTEREST other than when they contact him. This was Cohn's last mention of ANY mmo of which he also hints is not his biggest passion and this was EQ1 of which he states is putting on pause.https://www.twitch.tv/videos/674479885?filter=all&sort=time
I didn't mention what a new mmorpg NEEDS to bring it to the next phase instead of being another ho hum addition to the genre. 1 ECO systems,realsitic weather features,survival. 2 Building/terrain forming 3 Better npc's 4 REAL good Events not that typical World Boss crap.What they are doing with dynamics is really just a new take on what the EQ franhise always did after killing the same set several times you got a new set of spawns.I am not complaining,i do love this design but it needs more. 5 Tough to word this properly but a wide scope of npc taming.This means BOTH creatures in the world AND the Sentient beings as well.This is a very large topic that would take me too long to explain but many parts of it have already been done in games but never fully complete.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Pantheon is turning out to be a huge disappointment to me already. I put my money into this game a long time ago, was worst decision I made just on principle. Never again will I crowdfund a game. Every time they put out a new idea it makes me hate the game even more.
When they said old school, I expected an MMO with the old school difficulty and challenge not EZ mode. But now I see they just want to waste peoples time. In those videos I seen ZERO mechanics from monsters. In one, a wolf was literally just sitting there.
I wasn't expecting stupid things like Climate, corpse runs, climbing, I mean geez WTF. Put some player skill into the game my god.
Where are the Chained attack moves like DAOC, or dodge rolls, or positioning tactics, or spell combos.
People on the forums say its skill to choose 8 skills before battle starts. This is the state of MMO's today, people choosing armor and skills before battle is passing off as player skill.
Pantheon is turning out to be a huge disappointment to me already. I put my money into this game a long time ago, was worst decision I made just on principle. Never again will I crowdfund a game. Every time they put out a new idea it makes me hate the game even more.
When they said old school, I expected an MMO with the old school difficulty and challenge not EZ mode. But now I see they just want to waste peoples time. In those videos I seen ZERO mechanics from monsters. In one, a wolf was literally just sitting there.
I wasn't expecting stupid things like Climate, corpse runs, climbing, I mean geez WTF. Put some player skill into the game my god.
Where are the Chained attack moves like DAOC, or dodge rolls, or positioning tactics, or spell combos.
People on the forums say its skill to choose 8 skills before battle starts. This is the state of MMO's today, people choosing armor and skills before battle is passing off as player skill.
What a huge disappointment.
Totally agree, As time passes (a very lot of time) I'm seeing what you see. Strange, boring and time sync features is the best I can describe it.
What would it take for me to believe ?.... Real proof by video instead of crap program files being loaded to show SOME life.
Pantheon is turning out to be a huge disappointment to me already. I put my money into this game a long time ago, was worst decision I made just on principle. Never again will I crowdfund a game. Every time they put out a new idea it makes me hate the game even more.
When they said old school, I expected an MMO with the old school difficulty and challenge not EZ mode. But now I see they just want to waste peoples time. In those videos I seen ZERO mechanics from monsters. In one, a wolf was literally just sitting there.
I wasn't expecting stupid things like Climate, corpse runs, climbing, I mean geez WTF. Put some player skill into the game my god.
Where are the Chained attack moves like DAOC, or dodge rolls, or positioning tactics, or spell combos.
People on the forums say its skill to choose 8 skills before battle starts. This is the state of MMO's today, people choosing armor and skills before battle is passing off as player skill.
What a huge disappointment.
What you like in a game is always personal but some of the stuff you have said is not on the money.
1. "EZ mode, wolf just standing there" Game is not even in alpha. They are only starting to add AI to mobs and their ability to synergize with other NPC's they are fighting with. Bosses are far from there last pass though and every time they show the same dungeons, there are new mechanics and depth to NPC's.
2. "Chain attacks, dodge rolls" Were never part of EQ1 combat. Wrong game.
3. "Positioning tactics" Depending on the class, thats very much part of the game. Rogues have a ton of tools for that.
4. "Changing armor and skills before a fight" I have been MMOing for over 20 years and I dont know an MMO where when a fight mattered or went into a new area, raid or dungeon I didnt change something with my loadout or gear. Pantheon just added some more depth to a system every MMO has used since EQ1.
I would like to see chain attacks, which were an important part of Vanguard combat. Chain combinations would depend on whether a particular attack critted. So when you hear that crit you use the 2nd level attack. If you are too focused on mashing buttons you miss it. You always had to be aware of what was going on to maximize your damage.
2. "Chain attacks, dodge rolls" Were never part of EQ1 combat. Wrong game.
Whats your point with that? I didn't know this was supposed to be a clone of EQ. Wasn't Project 1999 supposed to fulfill that? Based off of, and clone are entirely different.
They have time for Climate and climbing but no time for any combat features to liven up the game? Those combat features were all the way back in 2002, not like they can be too hard to implement.
This combat skill looks like a 5yr old can master it.
Choosing skills and armor before battle even begins, is complete weaksauce. Especially since there will likely be guides to tell people exactly what to loadout.
Where is the reaction based combat, where you analyze the opponent then react to the situation. Or roaming monsters that sneak up and you are forced to CC them.
Just standing there fighting 1 or 2 enemies that dont even move, geez thats going to be boring.
Ive seen this all before, Fanbois like you sit here and fluff the devs wanting some EQ clone, meanwhile you are first to quit when the game sucks because of all the stupid time-sync ideas you THOUGHT were going to be good.
Sounds like you want a twitch based combat game. This has never been that.
Lets be a little more realistic about what the poster above you is saying.
How can you people not admit the combat and animation is EXTREMELY CRUDE. It's wack-a-mole !............ He's right, mobs simply stand their even when your 15 feet away as if your not even their. Then the tank or aggressor inches forward to a predetermined distance to gain aggro for the group..... Then repeat because the next cluster mob is standing stagnate shortly beyond them, you can look ahead and see them standing their waiting their turn !
It's 2020 and the mobs still slide on the ground as they move, they don't even cycle their legs same with your character. It's like their super imposed into the landscape. If your character moves too quickly or faces a wall, body parts and weapons disappear.
It's 2020, much has advanced since 1980's, resources are simplified to pump out content. This team and "jappa" don't seem to care about whats available, they ignore because their heads are too big to flow with modern times.... They seem to know better.
Their head strong on working on fantastic lighting and textures to to care about simple basic design of whats available...... In all reality, they suck !
Their on step six, building hundreds of "Jappa puzzles" when they don't even have step one solved.
Sure the poster uses twitch based combat for his example, but the point is still their, the game looks awful. But hay, hallways have soft lighting from the torches.
But you don't have to take my word for it, take the God Of War Director who spent 6 years making that game.
That's because systems are implemented but not yet refined, if you spend too much time refining things to look perfect you'll just be wasting time because they will break whenever you introduce the rest of the systems. With crowdfunded projects they showcase early footage to show their work, they'll polish it enough for public consumption but never represents the "finished" state, it's up to the gamer to understand that what it's seeing is a work in progress and will incrementally get better as they get to the appropriate stages of development to polish without wasting time/money.
So, adjust your expectations accordingly, this is a new studio raised from scratch making a complex game like a mmorpg. It will always take time and it will most likely "feel bad" until they get all their main systems in and working, only after they make things work they will focus on making those working things look good while working.
2. "Chain attacks, dodge rolls" Were never part of EQ1 combat. Wrong game.
Whats your point with that? I didn't know this was supposed to be a clone of EQ. Wasn't Project 1999 supposed to fulfill that? Based off of, and clone are entirely different.
They have time for Climate and climbing but no time for any combat features to liven up the game? Those combat features were all the way back in 2002, not like they can be too hard to implement.
This combat skill looks like a 5yr old can master it.
Choosing skills and armor before battle even begins, is complete weaksauce. Especially since there will likely be guides to tell people exactly what to loadout.
Where is the reaction based combat, where you analyze the opponent then react to the situation. Or roaming monsters that sneak up and you are forced to CC them.
Just standing there fighting 1 or 2 enemies that dont even move, geez thats going to be boring.
Ive seen this all before, Fanbois like you sit here and fluff the devs wanting some EQ clone, meanwhile you are first to quit when the game sucks because of all the stupid time-sync ideas you THOUGHT were going to be good.
When you have Delete clicking agree on your posts, its time for self evaluation. From what you are posting. Looks like you didnt take 10 min to figure out what Pantheon was about before you pledged. VR biggest pitch was this was the spiritual successor of EQ1, not a clone. In one breath you are upset its an EQ1 clone and this next you are upset they are adding things like climate and climbing that are not from EQ1.
2. "Chain attacks, dodge rolls" Were never part of EQ1 combat. Wrong game.
Whats your point with that? I didn't know this was supposed to be a clone of EQ. Wasn't Project 1999 supposed to fulfill that? Based off of, and clone are entirely different.
They have time for Climate and climbing but no time for any combat features to liven up the game? Those combat features were all the way back in 2002, not like they can be too hard to implement.
This combat skill looks like a 5yr old can master it.
Choosing skills and armor before battle even begins, is complete weaksauce. Especially since there will likely be guides to tell people exactly what to loadout.
Where is the reaction based combat, where you analyze the opponent then react to the situation. Or roaming monsters that sneak up and you are forced to CC them.
Just standing there fighting 1 or 2 enemies that dont even move, geez thats going to be boring.
Ive seen this all before, Fanbois like you sit here and fluff the devs wanting some EQ clone, meanwhile you are first to quit when the game sucks because of all the stupid time-sync ideas you THOUGHT were going to be good.
When you have Delete clicking agree on your posts, its time for self evaluation. From what you are posting. Looks like you didnt take 10 min to figure out what Pantheon was about before you pledged. VR biggest pitch was this was the spiritual successor of EQ1, not a clone. In one breath you are upset its an EQ1 clone and this next you are upset they are adding things like climate and climbing that are not from EQ1.
I read @Brainy's comment as 'his main complaint is that VR is wasting time (and effort) on meaningless systems such as climate and climbing instead of more important systems (combat)'. I agree with that; VR appears to be focusing on insignificant window dressing and simply plodding along with old ideas to fuel the core components of the game.
I've also said this before, Brad was making a modernized EQ1. Same as he did with Vanguard, Pantheon seems to be nothing more than old ideas regurgitated with some new terminology and some flashy graphics. Maybe that was all that Brad was capable of; I don't know. It certainly seems to me that VR has taken little opportunity to push the genre forward. That's a shame, as it takes so much time, effort, and money to make an MMORPG -- an wasted opportunity is a lost opportunity for the genre to grow.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
2. "Chain attacks, dodge rolls" Were never part of EQ1 combat. Wrong game.
Whats your point with that? I didn't know this was supposed to be a clone of EQ. Wasn't Project 1999 supposed to fulfill that? Based off of, and clone are entirely different.
They have time for Climate and climbing but no time for any combat features to liven up the game? Those combat features were all the way back in 2002, not like they can be too hard to implement.
This combat skill looks like a 5yr old can master it.
Choosing skills and armor before battle even begins, is complete weaksauce. Especially since there will likely be guides to tell people exactly what to loadout.
Where is the reaction based combat, where you analyze the opponent then react to the situation. Or roaming monsters that sneak up and you are forced to CC them.
Just standing there fighting 1 or 2 enemies that dont even move, geez thats going to be boring.
Ive seen this all before, Fanbois like you sit here and fluff the devs wanting some EQ clone, meanwhile you are first to quit when the game sucks because of all the stupid time-sync ideas you THOUGHT were going to be good.
When you have Delete clicking agree on your posts, its time for self evaluation. From what you are posting. Looks like you didnt take 10 min to figure out what Pantheon was about before you pledged. VR biggest pitch was this was the spiritual successor of EQ1, not a clone. In one breath you are upset its an EQ1 clone and this next you are upset they are adding things like climate and climbing that are not from EQ1.
I read @Brainy's comment as 'his main complaint is that VR is wasting time (and effort) on meaningless systems such as climate and climbing instead of more important systems (combat)'. I agree with that; VR appears to be focusing on insignificant window dressing and simply plodding along with old ideas to fuel the core components of the game.
I've also said this before, Brad was making a modernized EQ1. Same as he did with Vanguard, Pantheon seems to be nothing more than old ideas regurgitated with some new terminology and some flashy graphics. Maybe that was all that Brad was capable of; I don't know. It certainly seems to me that VR has taken little opportunity to push the genre forward. That's a shame, as it takes so much time, effort, and money to make an MMORPG -- an wasted opportunity is a lost opportunity for the genre to grow.
Again complaining that VR is not doing things new as you complain about the things they are doing new. As for combat, have you played it? Do you know if it plays like EQ1 combat, or is better or worse? Cant judge that now its not even in Alpha. They are only now adding some of the AI they plan to add. Much more is to come. They are doing all 3 things you mentioned. 1. Making a EQ1 spiritual successor 2. Adding new twists to old school MMO (pushing things forward) 3. With an old school game, they are making something that is 2020 graphical appealing.
I dont know if this game is going to be awesome and you dont know its going to suck. Does it hit your preferences? Thats subjective. When a game gets to Alpha and players start giving feedback on what parts of the game is fun and what is not. Thats when MMOs start to really push forward what game they are making. Emphasizing what they have done well and cut back or change what players are not enjoying. Pantheon is nowhere near that yet.
2. "Chain attacks, dodge rolls" Were never part of EQ1 combat. Wrong game.
Whats your point with that? I didn't know this was supposed to be a clone of EQ. Wasn't Project 1999 supposed to fulfill that? Based off of, and clone are entirely different.
They have time for Climate and climbing but no time for any combat features to liven up the game? Those combat features were all the way back in 2002, not like they can be too hard to implement.
This combat skill looks like a 5yr old can master it.
Choosing skills and armor before battle even begins, is complete weaksauce. Especially since there will likely be guides to tell people exactly what to loadout.
Where is the reaction based combat, where you analyze the opponent then react to the situation. Or roaming monsters that sneak up and you are forced to CC them.
Just standing there fighting 1 or 2 enemies that dont even move, geez thats going to be boring.
Ive seen this all before, Fanbois like you sit here and fluff the devs wanting some EQ clone, meanwhile you are first to quit when the game sucks because of all the stupid time-sync ideas you THOUGHT were going to be good.
When you have Delete clicking agree on your posts, its time for self evaluation. From what you are posting. Looks like you didnt take 10 min to figure out what Pantheon was about before you pledged. VR biggest pitch was this was the spiritual successor of EQ1, not a clone. In one breath you are upset its an EQ1 clone and this next you are upset they are adding things like climate and climbing that are not from EQ1.
I read @Brainy's comment as 'his main complaint is that VR is wasting time (and effort) on meaningless systems such as climate and climbing instead of more important systems (combat)'. I agree with that; VR appears to be focusing on insignificant window dressing and simply plodding along with old ideas to fuel the core components of the game.
I've also said this before, Brad was making a modernized EQ1. Same as he did with Vanguard, Pantheon seems to be nothing more than old ideas regurgitated with some new terminology and some flashy graphics. Maybe that was all that Brad was capable of; I don't know. It certainly seems to me that VR has taken little opportunity to push the genre forward. That's a shame, as it takes so much time, effort, and money to make an MMORPG -- an wasted opportunity is a lost opportunity for the genre to grow.
Not everything has to keep growing from the top of the tree to be meaningful. Sometimes the best spouts can grow out of the roots, or even the stump after the old tree has been cut down.
2. "Chain attacks, dodge rolls" Were never part of EQ1 combat. Wrong game.
Whats your point with that? I didn't know this was supposed to be a clone of EQ. Wasn't Project 1999 supposed to fulfill that? Based off of, and clone are entirely different.
They have time for Climate and climbing but no time for any combat features to liven up the game? Those combat features were all the way back in 2002, not like they can be too hard to implement.
This combat skill looks like a 5yr old can master it.
Choosing skills and armor before battle even begins, is complete weaksauce. Especially since there will likely be guides to tell people exactly what to loadout.
Where is the reaction based combat, where you analyze the opponent then react to the situation. Or roaming monsters that sneak up and you are forced to CC them.
Just standing there fighting 1 or 2 enemies that dont even move, geez thats going to be boring.
Ive seen this all before, Fanbois like you sit here and fluff the devs wanting some EQ clone, meanwhile you are first to quit when the game sucks because of all the stupid time-sync ideas you THOUGHT were going to be good.
When you have Delete clicking agree on your posts, its time for self evaluation. From what you are posting. Looks like you didnt take 10 min to figure out what Pantheon was about before you pledged. VR biggest pitch was this was the spiritual successor of EQ1, not a clone. In one breath you are upset its an EQ1 clone and this next you are upset they are adding things like climate and climbing that are not from EQ1.
I read @Brainy's comment as 'his main complaint is that VR is wasting time (and effort) on meaningless systems such as climate and climbing instead of more important systems (combat)'. I agree with that; VR appears to be focusing on insignificant window dressing and simply plodding along with old ideas to fuel the core components of the game.
I've also said this before, Brad was making a modernized EQ1. Same as he did with Vanguard, Pantheon seems to be nothing more than old ideas regurgitated with some new terminology and some flashy graphics. Maybe that was all that Brad was capable of; I don't know. It certainly seems to me that VR has taken little opportunity to push the genre forward. That's a shame, as it takes so much time, effort, and money to make an MMORPG -- an wasted opportunity is a lost opportunity for the genre to grow.
How are they meaningless if they are integrated into the game play? I think your "meaningless" has more to do with "I don't like them."
"I" would rather have a game with climbing and discovery over "combat" at times. And I generally like combat.
But "combat/combat/combat/" gets tiring without something else that drives that combat, drives the reason why there is combat.
Other than "go ten feet, fight ... go ten feet, fight."
Most of these mmorpg games worlds are incredibly shallow. So shallow that they don't even deserve to be game worlds, might as well just be lobby games.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I sincerely doubt that anyone will play Pantheon for the Climbing, Perception, Disposition or other systems. These are minor functions to the base game of combat. So, no, Pantheon is not pushing the genre forward by adding something to the formula of combat. Instead, VR is polishing some diversionary systems and are hoping to sell these secondary systems as advancements in the game play.
'Put on a coat and get cold related buffs' (the Climate system) isn't compelling game play.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I sincerely doubt that anyone will play Pantheon for the Climbing, Perception, Disposition or other systems. These are minor functions to the base game of combat. So, no, Pantheon is not pushing the genre forward by adding something to the formula of combat. Instead, VR is polishing some diversionary systems and are hoping to sell these secondary systems as advancements in the game play.
'Put on a coat and get cold related buffs' (the Climate system) isn't compelling game play.
Why do you serioulsly doubt that? Because you don't like it?
You've commented on this game before and it seems that it's just not the game for you. However can you really be sure that it won't resonate with others?
Also, it doesn't need to push anything forward if it is successful with what it's trying to accomplish: a game hearkening back to old school designs with some added depth to the world to make it seem like a world.
Now, I don't personally like how they are implementing their environmental system but it will add a more interesting axis to the world as far as exploration. "I" will certainly welcome any feature that makes the game world more of a "world" and less of a place where players are looking to bypass everything.
Post edited by Sovrath on
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I sincerely doubt that anyone will play Pantheon for the Climbing, Perception, Disposition or other systems. These are minor functions to the base game of combat. So, no, Pantheon is not pushing the genre forward by adding something to the formula of combat. Instead, VR is polishing some diversionary systems and are hoping to sell these secondary systems as advancements in the game play.
'Put on a coat and get cold related buffs' (the Climate system) isn't compelling game play.
Its funny, I see it totally from another side of things. I hope combat is awesome. I hope its everything I loved about EQ1 combat and some things new. When it comes to combat I do like the ideas they have for AI. Could mix things up. As much as I love combat its often the things between combat like @Sovrath mentioned are the things that stand out to me and thats if they are done well. EQ1, getting lost and exploring without a map (even though I could have used web resourced) was a huge thing for me. Being one of the first to find Avak lake and showing it to friends was huge. SWToR discovering combinations in crafting others had not discovered. ESO was the events, best events I played in any MMO. DAoC was using siege weapons. EQ1 playing a bard and spending hours with teams sometimes doing no combat but just buffing, pulling and debuffing.
I could go on and on but these system Pantheon is making that you keep bashing could end up being fun. Are they? No idea but like ESO events, I hated in game events till I played ESO. Ya just dont know till you try these systems in context of the game itself and very few people have done that.
2. "Chain attacks, dodge rolls" Were never part of EQ1 combat. Wrong game.
Whats your point with that? I didn't know this was supposed to be a clone of EQ. Wasn't Project 1999 supposed to fulfill that? Based off of, and clone are entirely different.
They have time for Climate and climbing but no time for any combat features to liven up the game? Those combat features were all the way back in 2002, not like they can be too hard to implement.
This combat skill looks like a 5yr old can master it.
Choosing skills and armor before battle even begins, is complete weaksauce. Especially since there will likely be guides to tell people exactly what to loadout.
Where is the reaction based combat, where you analyze the opponent then react to the situation. Or roaming monsters that sneak up and you are forced to CC them.
Just standing there fighting 1 or 2 enemies that dont even move, geez thats going to be boring.
Ive seen this all before, Fanbois like you sit here and fluff the devs wanting some EQ clone, meanwhile you are first to quit when the game sucks because of all the stupid time-sync ideas you THOUGHT were going to be good.
When you have Delete clicking agree on your posts, its time for self evaluation. From what you are posting. Looks like you didnt take 10 min to figure out what Pantheon was about before you pledged. VR biggest pitch was this was the spiritual successor of EQ1, not a clone. In one breath you are upset its an EQ1 clone and this next you are upset they are adding things like climate and climbing that are not from EQ1.
I read @Brainy's comment as 'his main complaint is that VR is wasting time (and effort) on meaningless systems such as climate and climbing instead of more important systems (combat)'. I agree with that; VR appears to be focusing on insignificant window dressing and simply plodding along with old ideas to fuel the core components of the game.
I've also said this before, Brad was making a modernized EQ1. Same as he did with Vanguard, Pantheon seems to be nothing more than old ideas regurgitated with some new terminology and some flashy graphics. Maybe that was all that Brad was capable of; I don't know. It certainly seems to me that VR has taken little opportunity to push the genre forward. That's a shame, as it takes so much time, effort, and money to make an MMORPG -- an wasted opportunity is a lost opportunity for the genre to grow.
Again complaining that VR is not doing things new as you complain about the things they are doing new. As for combat, have you played it? Do you know if it plays like EQ1 combat, or is better or worse? Cant judge that now its not even in Alpha. They are only now adding some of the AI they plan to add. Much more is to come. They are doing all 3 things you mentioned. 1. Making a EQ1 spiritual successor 2. Adding new twists to old school MMO (pushing things forward) 3. With an old school game, they are making something that is 2020 graphical appealing.
I dont know if this game is going to be awesome and you dont know its going to suck. Does it hit your preferences? Thats subjective. When a game gets to Alpha and players start giving feedback on what parts of the game is fun and what is not. Thats when MMOs start to really push forward what game they are making. Emphasizing what they have done well and cut back or change what players are not enjoying. Pantheon is nowhere near that yet.
I find it funny how you say they are going to get to the meat and potatoes of the game once it gets to alpha or beta, but its ok for them to put in these polishing systems like climate and climbing now. Seems you are completely backwards in your thought.
They should be putting their awesome gameplay into the game NOW and build around that.
Sure would it be nice to have a game with millions of complex subsystems that gives us wonder and excitement? All that is irrelevant when the game play sucks.
Just look at what they have been focusing on, climbing, climate, corpse runs, bringing the number of actions to 8. Meanwhile there are ZERO NPC mechanics and monster AI is as bad as WURM.
2. "Chain attacks, dodge rolls" Were never part of EQ1 combat. Wrong game.
Whats your point with that? I didn't know this was supposed to be a clone of EQ. Wasn't Project 1999 supposed to fulfill that? Based off of, and clone are entirely different.
They have time for Climate and climbing but no time for any combat features to liven up the game? Those combat features were all the way back in 2002, not like they can be too hard to implement.
This combat skill looks like a 5yr old can master it.
Choosing skills and armor before battle even begins, is complete weaksauce. Especially since there will likely be guides to tell people exactly what to loadout.
Where is the reaction based combat, where you analyze the opponent then react to the situation. Or roaming monsters that sneak up and you are forced to CC them.
Just standing there fighting 1 or 2 enemies that dont even move, geez thats going to be boring.
Ive seen this all before, Fanbois like you sit here and fluff the devs wanting some EQ clone, meanwhile you are first to quit when the game sucks because of all the stupid time-sync ideas you THOUGHT were going to be good.
When you have Delete clicking agree on your posts, its time for self evaluation. From what you are posting. Looks like you didnt take 10 min to figure out what Pantheon was about before you pledged. VR biggest pitch was this was the spiritual successor of EQ1, not a clone. In one breath you are upset its an EQ1 clone and this next you are upset they are adding things like climate and climbing that are not from EQ1.
I read @Brainy's comment as 'his main complaint is that VR is wasting time (and effort) on meaningless systems such as climate and climbing instead of more important systems (combat)'. I agree with that; VR appears to be focusing on insignificant window dressing and simply plodding along with old ideas to fuel the core components of the game.
I've also said this before, Brad was making a modernized EQ1. Same as he did with Vanguard, Pantheon seems to be nothing more than old ideas regurgitated with some new terminology and some flashy graphics. Maybe that was all that Brad was capable of; I don't know. It certainly seems to me that VR has taken little opportunity to push the genre forward. That's a shame, as it takes so much time, effort, and money to make an MMORPG -- an wasted opportunity is a lost opportunity for the genre to grow.
Again complaining that VR is not doing things new as you complain about the things they are doing new. As for combat, have you played it? Do you know if it plays like EQ1 combat, or is better or worse? Cant judge that now its not even in Alpha. They are only now adding some of the AI they plan to add. Much more is to come. They are doing all 3 things you mentioned. 1. Making a EQ1 spiritual successor 2. Adding new twists to old school MMO (pushing things forward) 3. With an old school game, they are making something that is 2020 graphical appealing.
I dont know if this game is going to be awesome and you dont know its going to suck. Does it hit your preferences? Thats subjective. When a game gets to Alpha and players start giving feedback on what parts of the game is fun and what is not. Thats when MMOs start to really push forward what game they are making. Emphasizing what they have done well and cut back or change what players are not enjoying. Pantheon is nowhere near that yet.
I find it funny how you say they are going to get to the meat and potatoes of the game once it gets to alpha or beta, but its ok for them to put in these polishing systems like climate and climbing now. Seems you are completely backwards in your thought.
They should be putting their awesome gameplay into the game NOW and build around that.
Sure would it be nice to have a game with millions of complex subsystems that gives us wonder and excitement? All that is irrelevant when the game play sucks.
Just look at what they have been focusing on, climbing, climate, corpse runs, bringing the number of actions to 8. Meanwhile there are ZERO NPC mechanics and monster AI is as bad as WURM.
No, you are missing the point, everything is a working progress. Combat, zones, AI, environmental systems, codex, climbing you name it. They are still building the game and showing off what they have. When the game enters Alpha, that means that have enough of the core game to start testing their systems to see if they are fun. At that stage, MMOs take feedback and change, cut out things they made or enhance to try and make them more fun. Subsystems that people rave about may become core features just because people love them so much. Right now Pantheon is in the building phase. The systems they make now may not even make it in the game. This is normal for MMOs at this stage of development.
@Nanfoodle Face it your fighting a loosing battle. People wanted a EQ1, so their not getting it, that for the most part it's ok...... However their at least expecting something better. After all it is 2020 now, lots of ideas were done since then, technology advanced, newer ideas should be easier to invent...... Instead we get climbing and cold... think hard about that climbing....really ?
Maybe you should not defend things like climbing as a feature... you'll loose !
@Nanfoodle Face it your fighting a loosing battle. People wanted a EQ1, so their not getting it, that for the most part it's ok...... However their at least expecting something better. After all it is 2020 now, lots of ideas were done since then, technology advanced, newer ideas should be easier to invent...... Instead we get climbing and cold... think hard about that climbing....really ?
Maybe you should not defend things like climbing as a feature... you'll loose !
First off Im not fighting. I seem to be spending more time explaining what Pre-Alpha means then talking about the game. Im not sure how an MMO forums is filled with so many people naive of what that means. Im not worried about Pantheon.
As for defending systems in the game like climbing, I have never said if I liked the feature so thats a fail on your part. In GW2 I hated jumping puzzles and climbing. Frankly I am not excited about the feature. But like I said above, I have never liked in game events in MMOs and ESO really knew how to make them tie into all of the game and I loved their events. So maybe VR will know how to make climbing a rich and deep experience that ties into exploration.
Pre-Alpha is a phase where all their ideas are chucked at a wall to see what sticks. Come Alpha the fans may say how much they hate climbing and it may be removed from the game. Myself, I love the combat they are shooting for, the class synergizes and I LOVE playing Bards. If an MMO has a Bard, I have tried it. If I love the game and hating the climbing, if the rest of the game is awesome. I will be happy to live with it. Same as I did with the 3 to 4 years I played GW2.
I find it funny how you say they are going to get to the meat and potatoes of the game once it gets to alpha or beta, but its ok for them to put in these polishing systems like climate and climbing now. Seems you are completely backwards in your thought.
They should be putting their awesome gameplay into the game NOW and build around that.
Sure would it be nice to have a game with millions of complex subsystems that gives us wonder and excitement? All that is irrelevant when the game play sucks.
Just look at what they have been focusing on, climbing, climate, corpse runs, bringing the number of actions to 8. Meanwhile there are ZERO NPC mechanics and monster AI is as bad as WURM.
But game play has to be built around things such as climbing and environment.
A map shouldn't be built and then retrofitted to accommodate systems.
To that point, they mentioned the environmental system a long time ago. That's not new. Climbing was mentioned a while back as well though I remember hearing them mention it and thought "oh, ok great, I'll be able to scale small hills unlike other mmorpg's where I cant even jump a fence."
They need to design the maps so they have vertical exploration. They need to design the maps so that the dungeons and game play make sense with the environmental system.
Otherwise it will feel tacked on.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Heh I can just see it now: The raid boss is on top of a hill...your raid party advances...oh but wahts this?...The main tank and healer cant join because their climbing is only 136 and you need 175 to climb to the top.......Or they won't have the appropriate clothing for the change in climate at the top of the hill and will die of hypothermia......
Heh I can just see it now: The raid boss is on top of a hill...your raid party advances...oh but wahts this?...The main tank and healer cant join because their climbing is only 136 and you need 175 to climb to the top.......Or they won't have the appropriate clothing for the change in climate at the top of the hill and will die of hypothermia......
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
However there will never be another LUCKY game like Wow where we see a massive influx of new online rpg gamer's join the fray.It was only about 1-2 year prior that pretty much all households now had DSL and online gaming was becoming a huge craze.
Yes EQ had it's game come out the same time EQ2 but that game did not have the star streamer power that Blizzard had.Streamers bring in the players and by the millions,they give a game it's popularity.
Dr.D and his buddy "forget his name"Made SOT a popular game that did not deserve ANY credibility.
My point is that you can no longer release mediocrity and expect there to be 12 million players just waiting to join your game.You now have to EARN your players unless of course you get a pile of popular streamers on board of which no other mmorpg besides Wow has ever done.Yes we saw Cohn Carnage being brought into the Pantheon marketing but he has in reality shown NO INTEREST other than when they contact him.
This was Cohn's last mention of ANY mmo of which he also hints is not his biggest passion and this was EQ1 of which he states is putting on pause.https://www.twitch.tv/videos/674479885?filter=all&sort=time
I didn't mention what a new mmorpg NEEDS to bring it to the next phase instead of being another ho hum addition to the genre.
1 ECO systems,realsitic weather features,survival.
2 Building/terrain forming
3 Better npc's
4 REAL good Events not that typical World Boss crap.What they are doing with dynamics is really just a new take on what the EQ franhise always did after killing the same set several times you got a new set of spawns.I am not complaining,i do love this design but it needs more.
5 Tough to word this properly but a wide scope of npc taming.This means BOTH creatures in the world AND the Sentient beings as well.This is a very large topic that would take me too long to explain but many parts of it have already been done in games but never fully complete.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
When they said old school, I expected an MMO with the old school difficulty and challenge not EZ mode. But now I see they just want to waste peoples time. In those videos I seen ZERO mechanics from monsters. In one, a wolf was literally just sitting there.
I wasn't expecting stupid things like Climate, corpse runs, climbing, I mean geez WTF. Put some player skill into the game my god.
Where are the Chained attack moves like DAOC, or dodge rolls, or positioning tactics, or spell combos.
People on the forums say its skill to choose 8 skills before battle starts. This is the state of MMO's today, people choosing armor and skills before battle is passing off as player skill.
What a huge disappointment.
As time passes (a very lot of time) I'm seeing what you see. Strange, boring and time sync features is the best I can describe it.
What would it take for me to believe ?.... Real proof by video instead of crap program files being loaded to show SOME life.
[mod edit]
1. "EZ mode, wolf just standing there" Game is not even in alpha. They are only starting to add AI to mobs and their ability to synergize with other NPC's they are fighting with. Bosses are far from there last pass though and every time they show the same dungeons, there are new mechanics and depth to NPC's.
2. "Chain attacks, dodge rolls" Were never part of EQ1 combat. Wrong game.
3. "Positioning tactics" Depending on the class, thats very much part of the game. Rogues have a ton of tools for that.
4. "Changing armor and skills before a fight" I have been MMOing for over 20 years and I dont know an MMO where when a fight mattered or went into a new area, raid or dungeon I didnt change something with my loadout or gear. Pantheon just added some more depth to a system every MMO has used since EQ1.
Whats your point with that? I didn't know this was supposed to be a clone of EQ. Wasn't Project 1999 supposed to fulfill that? Based off of, and clone are entirely different.
They have time for Climate and climbing but no time for any combat features to liven up the game? Those combat features were all the way back in 2002, not like they can be too hard to implement.
This combat skill looks like a 5yr old can master it.
Choosing skills and armor before battle even begins, is complete weaksauce. Especially since there will likely be guides to tell people exactly what to loadout.
Where is the reaction based combat, where you analyze the opponent then react to the situation. Or roaming monsters that sneak up and you are forced to CC them.
Just standing there fighting 1 or 2 enemies that dont even move, geez thats going to be boring.
Ive seen this all before, Fanbois like you sit here and fluff the devs wanting some EQ clone, meanwhile you are first to quit when the game sucks because of all the stupid time-sync ideas you THOUGHT were going to be good.
How can you people not admit the combat and animation is EXTREMELY CRUDE. It's wack-a-mole !............ He's right, mobs simply stand their even when your 15 feet away as if your not even their. Then the tank or aggressor inches forward to a predetermined distance to gain aggro for the group..... Then repeat because the next cluster mob is standing stagnate shortly beyond them, you can look ahead and see them standing their waiting their turn !
It's 2020 and the mobs still slide on the ground as they move, they don't even cycle their legs same with your character. It's like their super imposed into the landscape. If your character moves too quickly or faces a wall, body parts and weapons disappear.
It's 2020, much has advanced since 1980's, resources are simplified to pump out content. This team and "jappa" don't seem to care about whats available, they ignore because their heads are too big to flow with modern times.... They seem to know better.
Their head strong on working on fantastic lighting and textures to to care about simple basic design of whats available...... In all reality, they suck !
Their on step six, building hundreds of "Jappa puzzles" when they don't even have step one solved.
Sure the poster uses twitch based combat for his example, but the point is still their, the game looks awful. But hay, hallways have soft lighting from the torches.
Wake up people !!!!!!!!!
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I dont know if this game is going to be awesome and you dont know its going to suck. Does it hit your preferences? Thats subjective. When a game gets to Alpha and players start giving feedback on what parts of the game is fun and what is not. Thats when MMOs start to really push forward what game they are making. Emphasizing what they have done well and cut back or change what players are not enjoying. Pantheon is nowhere near that yet.
Not everything has to keep growing from the top of the tree to be meaningful. Sometimes the best spouts can grow out of the roots, or even the stump after the old tree has been cut down.
"I" would rather have a game with climbing and discovery over "combat" at times. And I generally like combat.
But "combat/combat/combat/" gets tiring without something else that drives that combat, drives the reason why there is combat.
Other than "go ten feet, fight ... go ten feet, fight."
Most of these mmorpg games worlds are incredibly shallow. So shallow that they don't even deserve to be game worlds, might as well just be lobby games.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
You've commented on this game before and it seems that it's just not the game for you. However can you really be sure that it won't resonate with others?
Also, it doesn't need to push anything forward if it is successful with what it's trying to accomplish: a game hearkening back to old school designs with some added depth to the world to make it seem like a world.
Now, I don't personally like how they are implementing their environmental system but it will add a more interesting axis to the world as far as exploration. "I" will certainly welcome any feature that makes the game world more of a "world" and less of a place where players are looking to bypass everything.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I could go on and on but these system Pantheon is making that you keep bashing could end up being fun. Are they? No idea but like ESO events, I hated in game events till I played ESO. Ya just dont know till you try these systems in context of the game itself and very few people have done that.
I find it funny how you say they are going to get to the meat and potatoes of the game once it gets to alpha or beta, but its ok for them to put in these polishing systems like climate and climbing now. Seems you are completely backwards in your thought.
They should be putting their awesome gameplay into the game NOW and build around that.
Sure would it be nice to have a game with millions of complex subsystems that gives us wonder and excitement? All that is irrelevant when the game play sucks.
Just look at what they have been focusing on, climbing, climate, corpse runs, bringing the number of actions to 8. Meanwhile there are ZERO NPC mechanics and monster AI is as bad as WURM.
Face it your fighting a loosing battle. People wanted a EQ1, so their not getting it, that for the most part it's ok...... However their at least expecting something better. After all it is 2020 now, lots of ideas were done since then, technology advanced, newer ideas should be easier to invent...... Instead we get climbing and cold... think hard about that climbing....really ?
Maybe you should not defend things like climbing as a feature... you'll loose !
As for defending systems in the game like climbing, I have never said if I liked the feature so thats a fail on your part. In GW2 I hated jumping puzzles and climbing. Frankly I am not excited about the feature. But like I said above, I have never liked in game events in MMOs and ESO really knew how to make them tie into all of the game and I loved their events. So maybe VR will know how to make climbing a rich and deep experience that ties into exploration.
Pre-Alpha is a phase where all their ideas are chucked at a wall to see what sticks. Come Alpha the fans may say how much they hate climbing and it may be removed from the game. Myself, I love the combat they are shooting for, the class synergizes and I LOVE playing Bards. If an MMO has a Bard, I have tried it. If I love the game and hating the climbing, if the rest of the game is awesome. I will be happy to live with it. Same as I did with the 3 to 4 years I played GW2.
A map shouldn't be built and then retrofitted to accommodate systems.
To that point, they mentioned the environmental system a long time ago. That's not new. Climbing was mentioned a while back as well though I remember hearing them mention it and thought "oh, ok great, I'll be able to scale small hills unlike other mmorpg's where I cant even jump a fence."
They need to design the maps so they have vertical exploration. They need to design the maps so that the dungeons and game play make sense with the environmental system.
Otherwise it will feel tacked on.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon