Er..... okay. I'm not too sure how to take that one. I'm pretty sure I've just been insulted. I'm not really in the mood to argue about it right now though.
Nope I was not insulting you, I was simply referencing that you as well pointed this out.
As to the new post, Networking security? That honestly scares me "* actually i think we may be on a slightly different page here*, You above all people should know that you do not have to associate a file to use it. Now If i want to double click on the file and have it automatically opened by said program, Then yes I have to associate it with the program, That however is entirely different then the program needing a registry entry to operate. Since we are using winamp as the example. You can fully use winamp without a single registry entry, Your in networking security? then you should know that any good network admin has their clients registry locked where users cannot install any programs that write anything to the registry. This is no different here, the fact that I am one of the programmers apparently does not exclude me from the rest of the idiots in this company but that is another argument. Point is, Winamp is fully capable of creating a play list that I open every time, it will play any file since its recognitions are built into it and I do not have to associate anything or put anything in the registry. However Since what really appears to be happening here is you and I are on two different sides of the coin, I believe you are exclusively referring to in order to click on the file itself and it start the program it has to be registered *This is correct*. However for the program to operate and to open files that it is normally capable of opening it does not require said registry entry *This is what I am talking about*
Now as to the reference to Xunleashed for example, yes that is an example of code that would easily be detected by such methods and should be. ACTools however outside the Decal and FFACT interfaces operates outside of the game and should not be detectable. Again making reference to the difference in interactive type bots and object or recognition based.
Now tell me if this makes more sense to you, I think the whole problem here is while we were in effect talking about the same thing, I think we were both on two different aspects of it.
Originally posted by Rattrap BUT THIS , scaning the computer. It has to be the worst thing a company ever made! Heck even Microsoft does not dare! I dont want my computer to be scaned. I do have all kind of dubious things on my HD. And who ever claims he has not , is lying. (or doesnt know) - Dont you know that even a simple mp3 that you downloaded from some site could be illegal? And what than... It is not what they will do with the information (although they showed to be very evil company) , it is what they could do! Man they can blackmail almost 90% of WoW players now. Thanks for the warning. I am going to burn my copy of WoW
The part about even Microsoft wouldn't dare made me laugh.
If you don't know, Microsoft scans your hard drive before allowing you to download new patches. The scan primarily looks for non-registered software on your hard drive.
So, now that you know, are you going to burn your copy of Windows?
"Whosoever shed last blood By man shall his blood be shed For immunity of God make he the man Destroy all that which is evil So that which is good may flourish And I shall count thee among my favored sheep And you shall have the protection of all the angels in Heaven."
Originally posted by Dekoth _______________________________________________________________ Now as to the reference to Xunleashed for example, yes that is an example of code that would easily be detected by such methods and should be. ACTools however outside the Decal and FFACT interfaces operates outside of the game and should not be detectable. Again making reference to the difference in interactive type bots and object or recognition based. Now tell me if this makes more sense to you, I think the whole problem here is while we were in effect talking about the same thing, I think we were both on two different aspects of it.
ACTools makes a registry entry if you use the installer to set it up. It's a simple keystroke logger. This one usually requires GM intervention to determine if it is being used because the bot will go to exactly the same area and do the exact same thing over and over again but appears to have a human behind the controls. I helped the L2 staff bust many people using ACTool. Got some nice high D grade and middle C grade drops off the bot too, killing him/her over and over again with my perma red plainswalker and my healer.
Most games have botters. Why not rather than complain about the need for things like hard drive scans, get behind the staff and support the extermination of the bots and their users in game :P
Ok it appears we were simply on two different pages of the same aspect. You are correct most installers will create a registry entry. But it does not require them for operation, it just makes things smoother.
Yes the Actools bot was easy to bust, here is a moment of cold honesty..I made Leveler that way on purpose. The original intent for it was for it to be used as a tool similiar to UOassist * which was illegal at first then became accepted* I also fowarded tons of information to the L2 Dev team on how to stop the bots that were abusive, actually hacking the client and such, I kept leveler simple in code structure and object based also its early incantations could not operate with an afk user they required user input. Unfortunatlly the devs instead of targeting the real problems had the nerve to send me a threatening pm on the ac tools forums which quite honestly pissed me off, Thus leveler transformed into a fully automated afk bot. But I still made some of its signatures rather obvious so people using it afk would end up banned..* yes I am a bit quirky *
In retrospect it all in all was a fairly immature debacle on my end and its why I dropped support for it completely. I still script for games, but I refuse to script anything other then scripts that merely do trivial task's so my dont have to inflame my carpal tunnel, nor do I publish my scripts anymore, simply too many idiots abuse it. With the exception of leveler I have never intended any script I wrote to be an afk cheat tool, merely as an aid to stop useless repetative clicking. Unfortunatly I misjudged the maturity level of the average person downloading stuff like this horribly. I suddenly found myself in a position I did not relish being the creator of a highly popular cheat tool when its original intent was to simply be an aid nothing more.
If they want to scan my hard drive outside their own folder at any time, NO. I will not play a game that takes the time (large hard drive with lots of crap on it) and snoops into stuff I may or may not want someone else to see. On the other hand, if they simply want to randomly check the what processes are running while playing the game in search of a hack program, then I don't have such a problem there.
Originally posted by reavo I have a question. Everyone keeps saying that you have to click yes on the terms of service in order to play but there's something of a catch 22 here. The terms of service aren't on the box. And all the game stores I've bought games from won't take back a game once the box has been opened.
The Terms of Service are readily available on the WoW site for anyone to read.
Originally posted by reavo I have a question. Everyone keeps saying that you have to click yes on the terms of service in order to play but there's something of a catch 22 here. The terms of service aren't on the box. And all the game stores I've bought games from won't take back a game once the box has been opened.
The Terms of Service are readily available on the WoW site for anyone to read.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to sound belligerent but that doesn't seem like a good option. It seems like a lot of legwork placed on the back of the consumer.
Instead of putting a bunch of pretty pictures on the back of the box, why not put something important? Or if they want to put pictures on the back then make it an insert. Then I can compare the games and their policies while I'm at the store. As a wiseman named Shatner says, "Shop and compare before you buy." I'd rather do that in the store instead of going from website to website to website. I don't even know which games I want until I'm there usually.
DISCLAIMER For Christ's sake, I'm not trying to take a shot at your game if you think I am, I'm just pointing out a contradictory argument. For certain, if this is going on with every online game, as some have stated, then they all should do it. Just thought I'd throw that disclaimer in for the people who get defensive (Geez, some people act like they wrote the software by taking things so personal.)
I feel like I have to say that after reading some of these posts. lol.
I personally do not think that a players pc should be scanned to prevent hackers because if they go and scan every persons account for hackers then there will be a much more frequent rate of lag spikes for users without windows xp. This is because even with public technowlogy nowadays multitasking on mmorpgs takes alot of room and usually ends up screwing evrything over. They could avoid this by scanning before your applicationg to sign up is processed, however hackers could easily hide their programs and avoid it entirely or re instal it after the application is accepted. Anoter way the game might try to pinpoint hackers is by scanning before and after the user logs in. Im not a hacker myself so i dont know any programs with high capabilities, but i know that people can hide their programs in private or exclusive files and hide it completely. To prevent games from being hacked then they should just make the game simple, if neopets could have a so called inhackable system, then why couldn't a mmorpg?
~Kamikaze Killa Zulu Zucchini~
Fun is fun unless its not fun wich would be fun in the case that it was fun but it isnt.
theres nothing wrong wit hthat unless you have something to hide. there are programs that make processes not seen or emulate files so nothing looks modded. so it is needed.
Originally posted by reavo I have a question. Everyone keeps saying that you have to click yes on the terms of service in order to play but there's something of a catch 22 here. The terms of service aren't on the box. And all the game stores I've bought games from won't take back a game once the box has been opened.
If you disagree with the terms, within a reasonable time period after purchasing the game, you may return it to Blizzard Entertainment and receive a full refund. It's actually in the first few lines of Terms of Service: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html
Of course, it can be troublesome to do so, I understand that, but I see no viable way to notify a user about ToS before he buys the product. Placing it in the back of the box instead of pictures and description would be pointless, after all potential consumers who know nothing of the product will want to see a few screenshots and a description.
Currently playing: * City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant. * City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
If its just a scan then I think its perfectly legit, if you got no hacks to hide then you have nothing to worry about. However, if its like suspecting you have a hack, when you might not, and then manually nosing through all your files then I would say that would be an intrusion of privacy.
Comments
Nope I was not insulting you, I was simply referencing that you as well pointed this out.
As to the new post, Networking security? That honestly scares me "* actually i think we may be on a slightly different page here*, You above all people should know that you do not have to associate a file to use it. Now If i want to double click on the file and have it automatically opened by said program, Then yes I have to associate it with the program, That however is entirely different then the program needing a registry entry to operate. Since we are using winamp as the example. You can fully use winamp without a single registry entry, Your in networking security? then you should know that any good network admin has their clients registry locked where users cannot install any programs that write anything to the registry. This is no different here, the fact that I am one of the programmers apparently does not exclude me from the rest of the idiots in this company but that is another argument. Point is, Winamp is fully capable of creating a play list that I open every time, it will play any file since its recognitions are built into it and I do not have to associate anything or put anything in the registry. However Since what really appears to be happening here is you and I are on two different sides of the coin, I believe you are exclusively referring to in order to click on the file itself and it start the program it has to be registered *This is correct*. However for the program to operate and to open files that it is normally capable of opening it does not require said registry entry *This is what I am talking about*
Now as to the reference to Xunleashed for example, yes that is an example of code that would easily be detected by such methods and should be. ACTools however outside the Decal and FFACT interfaces operates outside of the game and should not be detectable. Again making reference to the difference in interactive type bots and object or recognition based.
Now tell me if this makes more sense to you, I think the whole problem here is while we were in effect talking about the same thing, I think we were both on two different aspects of it.
The part about even Microsoft wouldn't dare made me laugh.
If you don't know, Microsoft scans your hard drive before allowing you to download new patches. The scan primarily looks for non-registered software on your hard drive.
So, now that you know, are you going to burn your copy of Windows?
"Whosoever shed last blood
By man shall his blood be shed
For immunity of God make he the man
Destroy all that which is evil
So that which is good may flourish
And I shall count thee among my favored sheep
And you shall have the protection of all the angels in Heaven."
ACTools makes a registry entry if you use the installer to set it up. It's a simple keystroke logger. This one usually requires GM intervention to determine if it is being used because the bot will go to exactly the same area and do the exact same thing over and over again but appears to have a human behind the controls. I helped the L2 staff bust many people using ACTool. Got some nice high D grade and middle C grade drops off the bot too, killing him/her over and over again with my perma red plainswalker and my healer.
Most games have botters. Why not rather than complain about the need for things like hard drive scans, get behind the staff and support the extermination of the bots and their users in game :P
Ok it appears we were simply on two different pages of the same aspect. You are correct most installers will create a registry entry. But it does not require them for operation, it just makes things smoother.
Yes the Actools bot was easy to bust, here is a moment of cold honesty..I made Leveler that way on purpose. The original intent for it was for it to be used as a tool similiar to UOassist * which was illegal at first then became accepted* I also fowarded tons of information to the L2 Dev team on how to stop the bots that were abusive, actually hacking the client and such, I kept leveler simple in code structure and object based also its early incantations could not operate with an afk user they required user input. Unfortunatlly the devs instead of targeting the real problems had the nerve to send me a threatening pm on the ac tools forums which quite honestly pissed me off, Thus leveler transformed into a fully automated afk bot. But I still made some of its signatures rather obvious so people using it afk would end up banned..* yes I am a bit quirky *
In retrospect it all in all was a fairly immature debacle on my end and its why I dropped support for it completely. I still script for games, but I refuse to script anything other then scripts that merely do trivial task's so my dont have to inflame my carpal tunnel, nor do I publish my scripts anymore, simply too many idiots abuse it. With the exception of leveler I have never intended any script I wrote to be an afk cheat tool, merely as an aid to stop useless repetative clicking. Unfortunatly I misjudged the maturity level of the average person downloading stuff like this horribly. I suddenly found myself in a position I did not relish being the creator of a highly popular cheat tool when its original intent was to simply be an aid nothing more.
I have a question. Everyone keeps saying that you have to click yes on the terms of service in order to play but there's something of a catch 22 here.
The terms of service aren't on the box. And all the game stores I've bought games from won't take back a game once the box has been opened.
If they want to scan my hard drive outside their own folder at any time, NO. I will not play a game that takes the time (large hard drive with lots of crap on it) and snoops into stuff I may or may not want someone else to see. On the other hand, if they simply want to randomly check the what processes are running while playing the game in search of a hack program, then I don't have such a problem there.
The Terms of Service are readily available on the WoW site for anyone to read.
The Terms of Service are readily available on the WoW site for anyone to read.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to sound belligerent but that doesn't seem like a good option. It seems like a lot of legwork placed on the back of the consumer.
Instead of putting a bunch of pretty pictures on the back of the box, why not put something important? Or if they want to put pictures on the back then make it an insert. Then I can compare the games and their policies while I'm at the store. As a wiseman named Shatner says, "Shop and compare before you buy." I'd rather do that in the store instead of going from website to website to website. I don't even know which games I want until I'm there usually.
DISCLAIMER
For Christ's sake, I'm not trying to take a shot at your game if you think I am, I'm just pointing out a contradictory argument. For certain, if this is going on with every online game, as some have stated, then they all should do it. Just thought I'd throw that disclaimer in for the people who get defensive (Geez, some people act like they wrote the software by taking things so personal.)
I feel like I have to say that after reading some of these posts. lol.
I personally do not think that a players pc should be scanned to prevent hackers because if they go and scan every persons account for hackers then there will be a much more frequent rate of lag spikes for users without windows xp. This is because even with public technowlogy nowadays multitasking on mmorpgs takes alot of room and usually ends up screwing evrything over. They could avoid this by scanning before your applicationg to sign up is processed, however hackers could easily hide their programs and avoid it entirely or re instal it after the application is accepted. Anoter way the game might try to pinpoint hackers is by scanning before and after the user logs in. Im not a hacker myself so i dont know any programs with high capabilities, but i know that people can hide their programs in private or exclusive files and hide it completely. To prevent games from being hacked then they should just make the game simple, if neopets could have a so called inhackable system, then why couldn't a mmorpg?
~Kamikaze Killa Zulu Zucchini~
Fun is fun unless its not fun wich would be fun in the case that it was fun but it isnt.
theres nothing wrong wit hthat unless you have something to hide. there are programs that make processes not seen or emulate files so nothing looks modded. so it is needed.
If you disagree with the terms, within a reasonable time period after purchasing the game, you may return it to Blizzard Entertainment and receive a full refund. It's actually in the first few lines of Terms of Service: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html
Of course, it can be troublesome to do so, I understand that, but I see no viable way to notify a user about ToS before he buys the product. Placing it in the back of the box instead of pictures and description would be pointless, after all potential consumers who know nothing of the product will want to see a few screenshots and a description.
Currently playing:
* City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant.
* City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
If its just a scan then I think its perfectly legit, if you got no hacks to hide then you have nothing to worry about.
However, if its like suspecting you have a hack, when you might not, and then manually nosing through all your files then I would say that would be an intrusion of privacy.