Next, some of the language being used is concerning. He mentions "we’re going to need more resources to get Pantheon done sooner than our modest team can realistically do by themselves in a reasonable timeframe" and "As a result of the PA testing and our own list of notes and to-dos, it was very clear that if the game was to ship we were going to need to get more parties interested, get more investment, and expand the team with more talent and skill sets beyond those of our current roster." This reads like "if we don't get actual investors and a publisher, it wont release"
What do you all think of this ?
I read that as "if we don't get more money we're screwed" nothing more nothing less.
Seriously why don't they just take what they have with the classes, skills, zones they have made and do instanced content. Yes it's not what they planned but a Kings and Heroes or whatever that grouping dungeon crawl game was called could be successful in this short attention spam era of gaming. Add some solid long-term progression systems in there and they could possibly have gold in their hands. It sure as heck would be easier to complete and they could just add classes, races, zones in the future without those unrealistic big dream costs/demands.
This is what we were saying then they decided no we need a weather and perception system in place.........They have wasted too many resources on worthless things that don't add to the game.
We simply cannot have another CF MMO fold, it would be the tombstone to the whole idea of making quality indie MMORPG's. The fact some have launched like AO and been successful enough would not save CF MMO's if we had two failures.
I beg to differ. People that lost thousands backing the CoE disaster literally took no more than a few weeks to latch onto a similar game that sells "Nobility" for hundreds and thousands. There will ALWAYS be people that will crowdfund games based on promises and dreams.
Agreed, a sucker born every minute and all that you know.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Next, some of the language being used is concerning. He mentions "we’re going to need more resources to get Pantheon done sooner than our modest team can realistically do by themselves in a reasonable timeframe" and "As a result of the PA testing and our own list of notes and to-dos, it was very clear that if the game was to ship we were going to need to get more parties interested, get more investment, and expand the team with more talent and skill sets beyond those of our current roster." This reads like "if we don't get actual investors and a publisher, it wont release"
What do you all think of this ?
I read that as "if we don't get more money we're screwed" nothing more nothing less.
Seriously why don't they just take what they have with the classes, skills, zones they have made and do instanced content. Yes it's not what they planned but a Kings and Heroes or whatever that grouping dungeon crawl game was called could be successful in this short attention spam era of gaming. Add some solid long-term progression systems in there and they could possibly have gold in their hands. It sure as heck would be easier to complete and they could just add classes, races, zones in the future without those unrealistic big dream costs/demands.
This is what we were saying then they decided no we need a weather and perception system in place.........They have wasted too many resources on worthless things that don't add to the game.
I would say they do add to the game. They add to the game the backers "backed."
I am assuming you did not back the game? Probably because such things aren't of interest which makes sense because you don't think they add to the game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Next, some of the language being used is concerning. He mentions "we’re going to need more resources to get Pantheon done sooner than our modest team can realistically do by themselves in a reasonable timeframe" and "As a result of the PA testing and our own list of notes and to-dos, it was very clear that if the game was to ship we were going to need to get more parties interested, get more investment, and expand the team with more talent and skill sets beyond those of our current roster." This reads like "if we don't get actual investors and a publisher, it wont release"
What do you all think of this ?
I read that as "if we don't get more money we're screwed" nothing more nothing less.
Seriously why don't they just take what they have with the classes, skills, zones they have made and do instanced content. Yes it's not what they planned but a Kings and Heroes or whatever that grouping dungeon crawl game was called could be successful in this short attention spam era of gaming. Add some solid long-term progression systems in there and they could possibly have gold in their hands. It sure as heck would be easier to complete and they could just add classes, races, zones in the future without those unrealistic big dream costs/demands.
This is what we were saying then they decided no we need a weather and perception system in place.........They have wasted too many resources on worthless things that don't add to the game.
I would say they do add to the game. They add to the game the backers "backed."
I am assuming you did not back the game? Probably because such things aren't of interest which makes sense because you don't think they add to the game.
Scope creep is scope creep, regardless of who (and how many) like it.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
It was what? 2 years ago they were releasing vids of people playing?
Guess that was the part they were talking about working themselves into a corner?
Dunno, but it still seems like a long way to go, and as with most of these projects, never enough people,money, or efficiency and or planning to get the job done.
They need a new want ad...Hiring!!!! Magician to pull this f'ing rabbit out of the hat. Cause it does not sound too good to me.
It was what? 2 years ago they were releasing vids of people playing?
Guess that was the part they were talking about working themselves into a corner?
Dunno, but it still seems like a long way to go, and as with most of these projects, never enough people,money, or efficiency and or planning to get the job done.
They need a new want ad...Hiring!!!! Magician to pull this f'ing rabbit out of the hat. Cause it does not sound too good to me.
Well yes, that is exactly what happened, they intentionally went backwards in order to make moving forward easier.
You are not wrong, many years to go before this game ever sees full release.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Scope creep is scope creep, regardless of who (and how many) like it.
Scope creep means that over the course of development, various features and content are added and expanded so that they change the project's scope. Not "an original feature of the game.
Their initial kickstarter was in february 2014.
The whole weather thing was discussed a month before it.
This is the game that backers backed. It's not superfluous to those who backed the game and who were excited about those features. I'm not sure where you are getting scope creep.
Post edited by Sovrath on
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To me it seems like project faerthale was to get the game in order to show off to big time investors, actual companies that will pay the budget and provide a team they need to get it done. All under the guise of "preparing for the next pre-alpha."
But now we know theyve scrapped the game TWICE. It's clear from this letter that they need more people and more money.
To me it seems like project faerthale was to get the game in order to show off to big time investors, actual companies that will pay the budget and provide a team they need to get it done. All under the guise of "preparing for the next pre-alpha."
But now we know theyve scrapped the game TWICE. It's clear from this letter that they need more people and more money.
Sell-out incoming.
That's exactly what faerthale was.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
We simply cannot have another CF MMO fold, it would be the tombstone to the whole idea of making quality indie MMORPG's. The fact some have launched like AO and been successful enough would not save CF MMO's if we had two failures.
I'd argue that weneed poorly managed crowd-funded or early access games to fold sooner or be forced to launch within a certain time period so consumers aren't strung along for a decade with empty promises. If consumers wise up then maybe studios will take their responsibilities more seriously.
Thing is, Indy Studios often are not fully functioning companies with people that knows how to run a company. Brad was a great developer but really had some flaws when it came to admin side of things. Backers, backing games on the hopes the concept flies, Im not sure anyone could regulate that. VR has learned as they have gone along. Seems they now have things in stride, will the fans keep with them at that point? Who knows.
I hear what you're saying and I think you're probably right in the majority of cases. That doesn't bode well though because at the end of the day these are businesses that need to be self-sustainable if they're going to survive or thrive. If they're not business minded, then they're doomed from day one.
Yes most likely, most studios like that will fail.
With what we know now that the game is STILL in PRE-alpha does it seem a little
disingenuous to sell the higher pledge amounts(1,3,10k) with things like lifetime membership? Even the hundreds at this point should be temporarily removed until they get stuff sorted out.
With what we know now that the game is STILL in PRE-alpha does it seem a little
disingenuous to sell the higher pledge amounts(1,3,10k) with things like lifetime membership? Even the hundreds at this point should be temporarily removed until they get stuff sorted out.
Thats a little bit of a backward way to look at this. Pantheon has still progressed to the point the have a working part of the game with most systems in play. Where you will be able to play a number of classes from level 1 to 50. With that, Pre-Alpha 5 will be about polishing that so that when Alpha starts, VR will have something to show investors to get more funds. Supporting VR is as much of a gamble as it always has but... They are getting some good momentum. From here, they will just need to repeat the process in other areas of the game.
With what we know now that the game is STILL in PRE-alpha does it seem a little
disingenuous to sell the higher pledge amounts(1,3,10k) with things like lifetime membership? Even the hundreds at this point should be temporarily removed until they get stuff sorted out.
Thats a little bit of a backward way to look at this. Pantheon has still progressed to the point the have a working part of the game with most systems in play. Where you will be able to play a number of classes from level 1 to 50. With that, Pre-Alpha 5 will be about polishing that so that when Alpha starts, VR will have something to show investors to get more funds. Supporting VR is as much of a gamble as it always has but... They are getting some good momentum. From here, they will just need to repeat the process in other areas of the game.
I honestly hope you are right, but I suspect that the situation is quite dire and if they do not get an investor to bite in the next few months they will fold. I have a suspicion, maybe just a hope, that they already have a deal in the works and that this "Come to Jesus" moment was just to prepare folks for the announcement that they were acquired by XYZ company.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I believe in this game. You can say what you will- but they are transparent all the way through. They share their ups and downs. I am confident that they will reach their goal- however the road ahead seems rocky to say at least.
With what we know now that the game is STILL in PRE-alpha does it seem a little
disingenuous to sell the higher pledge amounts(1,3,10k) with things like lifetime membership? Even the hundreds at this point should be temporarily removed until they get stuff sorted out.
Thats a little bit of a backward way to look at this. Pantheon has still progressed to the point the have a working part of the game with most systems in play. Where you will be able to play a number of classes from level 1 to 50. With that, Pre-Alpha 5 will be about polishing that so that when Alpha starts, VR will have something to show investors to get more funds. Supporting VR is as much of a gamble as it always has but... They are getting some good momentum. From here, they will just need to repeat the process in other areas of the game.
They have come quite a ways but unfortunately they have a long way to go still and I believe the kitty is empty.
"We realized that should we continue with the then-current implementation practices, we wouldn’t be able to ship the game. We were backing ourselves in a corner with hardcoding. Any changes had to be done by programming. All quests, all encounters, everything was hardcoded into the client. Designers couldn’t do implementation themselves, they needed a programmer to put it into the game for them"
Hardcoding stuff like that onto an MMO client should basically be prototyping when you want to test how your idea would work. They've got really bad lack of skill or experience if they had to discover that it wasn't scalable into full game.
With what we know now that the game is STILL in PRE-alpha does it seem a little
disingenuous to sell the higher pledge amounts(1,3,10k) with things like lifetime membership? Even the hundreds at this point should be temporarily removed until they get stuff sorted out.
Thats a little bit of a backward way to look at this. Pantheon has still progressed to the point the have a working part of the game with most systems in play. Where you will be able to play a number of classes from level 1 to 50. With that, Pre-Alpha 5 will be about polishing that so that when Alpha starts, VR will have something to show investors to get more funds. Supporting VR is as much of a gamble as it always has but... They are getting some good momentum. From here, they will just need to repeat the process in other areas of the game.
I honestly hope you are right, but I suspect that the situation is quite dire and if they do not get an investor to bite in the next few months they will fold. I have a suspicion, maybe just a hope, that they already have a deal in the works and that this "Come to Jesus" moment was just to prepare folks for the announcement that they were acquired by XYZ company.
Microsoft, bringing Pantheon to a Game Pass near you. Just imagine that, it would be brilliant.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"We realized that should we continue with the then-current implementation practices, we wouldn’t be able to ship the game. We were backing ourselves in a corner with hardcoding. Any changes had to be done by programming. All quests, all encounters, everything was hardcoded into the client. Designers couldn’t do implementation themselves, they needed a programmer to put it into the game for them"
Hardcoding stuff like that onto an MMO client should basically be prototyping when you want to test how your idea would work. They've got really bad lack of skill or experience if they had to discover that it wasn't scalable into full game.
They were crowdfunded initially so their talent pool must not be that stellar but if they had very good coders and such they wouldn't be in the pickle they seem to be in. Large studios have a stable of good coders and such but this game is being developed on the premise of "if wishes were horses, beggars would ride". They have also lost an integral member of the team that could have attracted more investment.
Scope creep is scope creep, regardless of who (and how many) like it.
Scope creep means that over the course of development, various features and content are added and expanded so that they change the project's scope. Not "an original feature of the game.
Their initial kickstarter was in february 2014.
The whole weather thing was discussed a month before it.
This is the game that backers backed. It's not superfluous to those who backed the game and who were excited about those features. I'm not sure where you are getting scope creep.
I'm pretty sure most people invested, so they could play a game that would actually RELEASE. Who cares about stupid features if they cant even get the game out the door. Just poor mismanagement.
You write a list of 100 ideas or things you need to do starting 1 as the most critical until you get to 100. These guys are starting from the bottom of the list of least important things and working their way up.
Oh this is fantastic we got an almost completed weather system, but unfortunately we wont be able to finish the actual game because we ran out of funding for the entire game trying to create it. But HEY its really cool if it was done.
If finances are that tight, they should've put more effort into their website store a long time ago. I'm not talking about adding cash shop items, but simply the functionality of it.
It's been 6 years since the store launched and you still cannot login and view what rewards you're entitled to. The only way to find out is if you manually email customer service.
I've said it before, but without a clear UI for upgrading, I won't even try to upgrade my current pledge out of fear of losing some of my existing rewards.
By their actions all these years, I just assumed they were getting all the money they needed from investors and crowdfunding was simply a bonus.
If finances are that tight, they should've put more effort into their website store a long time ago. I'm not talking about adding cash shop items, but simply the functionality of it.
It's been 6 years since the store launched and you still cannot login and view what rewards you're entitled to. The only way to find out is if you manually email customer service.
I've said it before, but without a clear UI for upgrading, I won't even try to upgrade my current pledge out of fear of losing some of my existing rewards.
By their actions all these years, I just assumed they were getting all the money they needed from investors and crowdfunding was simply a bonus.
Ya I have tried to figure out upping my pledge as well and it makes no sense to me as well. So I just left it alone. I wonder how many others felt the same way.
Comments
This is what we were saying then they decided no we need a weather and perception system in place.........They have wasted too many resources on worthless things that don't add to the game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I am assuming you did not back the game? Probably because such things aren't of interest which makes sense because you don't think they add to the game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
It was what? 2 years ago they were releasing vids of people playing?
Guess that was the part they were talking about working themselves into a corner?
Dunno, but it still seems like a long way to go, and as with most of these projects, never enough people,money, or efficiency and or planning to get the job done.
They need a new want ad...Hiring!!!! Magician to pull this f'ing rabbit out of the hat.
Cause it does not sound too good to me.
You are not wrong, many years to go before this game ever sees full release.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
But now we know theyve scrapped the game TWICE. It's clear from this letter that they need more people and more money.
Sell-out incoming.
That's exactly what faerthale was.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
mmorpg junkie since 1999
"We realized that should we continue with the then-current implementation practices, we wouldn’t be able to ship the game. We were backing ourselves in a corner with hardcoding. Any changes had to be done by programming. All quests, all encounters, everything was hardcoded into the client. Designers couldn’t do implementation themselves, they needed a programmer to put it into the game for them"
Hardcoding stuff like that onto an MMO client should basically be prototyping when you want to test how your idea would work. They've got really bad lack of skill or experience if they had to discover that it wasn't scalable into full game.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I'm pretty sure most people invested, so they could play a game that would actually RELEASE. Who cares about stupid features if they cant even get the game out the door. Just poor mismanagement.
You write a list of 100 ideas or things you need to do starting 1 as the most critical until you get to 100. These guys are starting from the bottom of the list of least important things and working their way up.
Oh this is fantastic we got an almost completed weather system, but unfortunately we wont be able to finish the actual game because we ran out of funding for the entire game trying to create it. But HEY its really cool if it was done.
That's just brilliant!
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