Star Citizen's Squadron 42 Report Points to Progress for Story Development | MMORPG.com

Beholder2k

Babuinix said:

...

Besides being a backer changes little if you're not actually backing what you invested in. Some if the biggest haters are/were backers who didin't understood what they were getting into and became desilusioned.

...

So the backers that offer critisism are not backing what they 'invested' in. That only applies to the Yes-man I suppose. Gotcha.

I'd say most of the backers who turned critics are fed-up with the overhyping and under-delivering ("Tier 0" implementations that prior have been marketed differently), at least that is my perception.

Babuinix

Beholder2k said:

So the backers that offer critisism are not backing what they 'invested' in. That only applies to the Yes-man I suppose. Gotcha.

I'd say most of the backers who turned critics are fed-up with the overhyping and under-delivering ("Tier 0" implementations that prior have been marketed differently), at least that is my perception.

Venting frustrations on a random gaming forum is not "offer criticism". Everything written in gaming foruns is irrelevant to games development because no dev will take it serious. They collect feedback from people actually playing the game not the vocal minorities who vent on gaming forums:

https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/96195270406/obtaining-feedback-from-gamers-how-we-do-it

How each one deals with their hype and expectations management is up to them. Just because they have a problem dealing with game development hurdles doesn't mean something is wrong. It's wrong To that person in question just like it isin't for another one. Still irrelevant to game development per se.

Beholder2k

You'd normally would give your feedback or critisism on the official forum, engage in a debate with other players and the devs can exctract whatever information is useful to them. 
We know all to well how this is going on Spectrum or the official Reddit.

/moved to concern

Babuinix

Beholder2k said:

You'd normally would give your feedback or critisism on the official forum, engage in a debate with other players and the devs can exctract whatever information is useful to them. 
We know all to well how this is going on Spectrum or the official Reddit.

/moved to concern

Plenty of feedback in the official forums has translated in changes to changes in the games development or communication, because they were made in a sensible and constructive way, if it's just venting and ranting it will be, rightly so, ignored.

You can easily track the daily interactions between all dev's and community in the official forum through the DevTracker: 

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/devtracker

Slapshot1188

Babuinix said:

Beholder2k said:

So the backers that offer critisism are not backing what they 'invested' in. That only applies to the Yes-man I suppose. Gotcha.

I'd say most of the backers who turned critics are fed-up with the overhyping and under-delivering ("Tier 0" implementations that prior have been marketed differently), at least that is my perception.

Venting frustrations on a random gaming forum is not "offer criticism". Everything written in gaming foruns is irrelevant to games development because no dev will take it serious. They collect feedback from people actually playing the game not the vocal minorities who vent on gaming forums:

https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/96195270406/obtaining-feedback-from-gamers-how-we-do-it

How each one deals with their hype and expectations management is up to them. Just because they have a problem dealing with game development hurdles doesn't mean something is wrong. It's wrong To that person in question just like it isin't for another one. Still irrelevant to game development per se.

Shocking as it may be to you, gaming forums like MMORPG are about discussing games.  And when they publish an article on a game of interest I post in it.  

I’m not trying to change the developers mind on something. It’s not like if I post on their forum it will be some revelation that they are six years late and counting.  

What you seem to struggle with is that it is totally valid to complain that a game is 6 years late with no end in sight.  And unlike with your normal defense about SC,  no we cannot login and play SQ42.   Thus isn’t about SC,  this is about getting SQ42 “story progress “ in 2020 (almost 2021) for a game that was due in 2014.   This is about a game that literally in March of this year we were told would be in Beta between July and Sept.  Forget the promises from 2012...  they can’t even come close to hitting the ones from 2020.

Frustration and criticism of that is valid and if you can’t see that then the issue is on your side.

Babuinix

Slapshot1188 said:

Shocking as it may be to you, gaming forums like MMORPG are about discussing games.  And when they publish an article on a game of interest I post in it. 

You're the one who've stated multiple times that all you're interested about SQ42 is a release date remember?

Slapshot1188 said:

The only progress update I want from SQ42 is a release date, that they hit.

If you come to a thread about it's development progress expecting something else that's your own fault. If you're using it to vent your frustration with game development, well, it's your own fault too, because as much as you might think it makes you feel better, it's still just noise.

And you're right, it wont make the game come out sooner. The only way for you to maturely cope with the wait is to just understand the reasons for such delays and make terms with them by just accepting that's just the way game development goes. And this applies to every crowdfunded game which inherently will face delays and changes along the way.

In case you've been too busy being frustrated about development hurdles, The original SQ42 scope, scale and quality bar changed considerably from the original (eta 2014) vision as the company got access to more funding, new dev's and technology (procedural planets for example).

The main studios developing SQ42 (UK & GER) were founded respectively in 2014 and 2015 and everything before was pre-production, prototyping and R&D.

If you add that data with the knowledge that massive games made by some of the best and most experienced game studios in the world (Rockstar: RedDeadRedemption2 or ProjectRed's: Cyberpunk just to name 2) still took along 8 years to make you'd notice how your frustrations aren't very reasonable.

Slapshot1188

If you want pie in the sky sunshine stick to the ivory tower.

SQ 42 is 6 years late.  They posted in March saying we’d see Beta in July-Aug.  Its Nov and Beta is nowhere in sight. 

You don’t like complaining, tough noogies. You don’t get to dictate how backers should feel.

Babuinix

Being reasonable doesn't involve thinking that game development is a "pie in the sky sunshine" but understanding that making games involve hurdles and setbacks and see it as something normal and unavoidable of developing ambitious games.

When you see multiple studios with decades of years of experience going through these same problems when developing their games the unreasonable thing is to expect new studios to not have to go through them.

So the only thing that is late is your abbility to cope with game development and being able to adjust your expectations along the way.

You'll never "see" or play a Beta for a single-player game unless you're part of a development team.  So, again, you're frustrations and wrong expectations are on you and you alone.

At best you'll get random snipets of gameplay here and there and not much more as demo's of AAA story games aren't really a thing anymore

The same reason why there isin't much about the Beta of BeyondGood&Evil2 which was teased for 2019 back in 2018: https://screenrant.com/beyond-good-evil-2-beta-launch-end-2019/

  

Iselin

Eldrach said:

They’re still pulling that same «laying the foundation» argument they’ve used since 2014..what the flying saucer haven’t you completed the groundwork for after 6 years for something that will be a fairly generic space/fps game

Quoted for emphasis: "...for something that will be a fairly generic space/fps game"

The hype machine will have you believe that if everything comes together and this actually gets released with all features working as intended this will be the best game ever, best thing since sliced bread and the second coming all wrapped into one.

I have never seen it as that and I highly doubt it will even be a GOTY contender in whatever year it gets released.

Babuinix

Iselin said:

Eldrach said:

They’re still pulling that same «laying the foundation» argument they’ve used since 2014..what the flying saucer haven’t you completed the groundwork for after 6 years for something that will be a fairly generic space/fps game

Quoted for emphasis: "...for something that will be a fairly generic space/fps game"

The hype machine will have you believe that if everything comes together and this actually gets released with all features working as intended this will be the best game ever, best thing since sliced bread and the second coming all wrapped into one.

I have never seen it as that and I highly doubt it will even be a GOTY contender in whatever year it gets released.

That's a great unicorn you're riding.

Nothing about Chris Roberts games was ever considered "generic". For the contrary, his games were always know to push the boundaries of gaming both in the narrative aspect and the technical aspect. Gameplay? sure not that revolutionary or what makes his games stand out. In SC/SQ42 case is not the type of gameplay features but the amount and variety of them and how they are seamlessly interconnected

Just another great example of how clueless people commenting SC/SQ42 threads are about the subject at hand while making uninformed assumptions aka "riding unicorns". 

Tiller

Yeah this guy is being paid, there is not a person on this god forsaken earth who would waste this much time defending this mess without getting some sort of compensation for it.

Pher0cious

Tiller said:

Yeah this guy is being paid, there is not a person on this god forsaken earth who would waste this much time defending this mess without getting some sort of compensation for it.

That's what I've been saying! He works at CIG. He doesn't comment on anything else, like this is his job or something. 

Pher0cious

coretex666 said:
There is also one chimp, but he clicks lols all over the place, not just here. 

I've noticed that too! Who is he? What's his deal? 

Slapshot1188

Babuinix said:

Being reasonable doesn't involve thinking that game development is a "pie in the sky sunshine" but understanding that making games involve hurdles and setbacks and see it as something normal and unavoidable of developing ambitious games.

Game development is not "pie in the sky sunshine", that refers to your desire for a place where only positives can be posted.  

News flash, everyone on here realized that there are hurdles and setbacks.  Where the rest of humanity disagrees with you is our threshold for tolerating those setbacks. We are now 6 years and counting. That's not a setback. That's a disaster. 

SQ42 Beta was supposed to start in July-Sept of this year.  That was posted in March of this year.   It's now November and not only is there no sign of Beta but it's laughable to think they are even close.  Instead we get Story Development.

And these had nothing to do with any changes that were made in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017,2018 or 2019....  this was current.  March of this year.  

Guess they had more setbacks.

And I guess there is no limit to the amount of setbacks you would accept with a smile.  For the rest of us, that threshold has long past, and believe me, we aren't the ones with a skewed perspective.

Babuinix

Tiller said:

Yeah this guy is being paid, there is not a person on this god forsaken earth who would waste this much time defending this mess without getting some sort of compensation for it.

As much as It's adorable seeing clueless haters coming up with new unicorns to cope with simple things as gamers who are still passionate and enjoy video-games enough to point out all the faults in their reasoning It's still quite amusing to see all the contorted tinfoil conspiracy's they can come up with to be able to sleep at night lol. Imagine me starting accusing all these haters of being smarties lackeys paid to spend time hating on a game they don't even care about lol just to spread some FUD, dumb right as no one would be so desperate right? Still there's still plenty of brand new accounts made solely with the intent of attacking me and Star Citizen *wink @Zh3nox wink

coretex666 said:

Babu found a funny unicorn pic on the internet...brace yourselves...years of unicorn posts incoming 
There is only one coolaid drinking unicorn rider in the SC subforum, bro. There is also one chimp, but he clicks lols all over the place, not just here. 

Data and knowledge unveiling the veil and showcasing how haters have no leg to stand on? Like if all the years they kept saying CIG would go under or that a game which they nothing about doesn't exist would suddenly make disappear the continuous yearly data who shows the complete opposite. Riding unicorns is your only way to cope with the grieving and the reason you have to create a brand new one each quarter is because they have no legs to stand on in the first place.

Slapshot1188 said:

Game development is not "pie in the sky sunshine", that refers to your desire for a place where only positives can be posted. 

If you have no tolerance for setbacks you have no place or say in crowdfunding ventures, much less any place in game development discussion. If you want to use SC/SQ42 as therapeutical sessions to cope with your frustrations go ahead and through your tauntrums, nobody can't stop you, but if you do so while also saying you only care about is a release date do it so knowing that everyone know's you're only lying to yourself to feel better. It's just a video-game after all, and it will be ready when it's ready. Not sooner, not later. The sooner you make terms with that the faster you'll learn to cope with every games development.

Meanwhile, the more you guys feel the need to give attention to this project the more it will be on the limelight and consequently get more funding. Because for every vocal hater and bitter gamer who feels the need to vent their frustrations on forums there's dozens of lurkers who read with amusement and interest this nonsense back and forth and get reminded that it exists and that's enough to keep the interest alive, and has the game gets more and more fleshed out the more reasons there are to try it on a free-fly, even if only to see if all the bad/good things said about it have a ground. And from all of those some will pass it, some will like it and appreciate it for what it is and where it's going.

And that's why new players and funding just keeps on growing.

Rinse & Repeat 

Tiller

Ummm that isn't my account bro, and any MMORPG.com mods could verify this.  Nice try though.

Babuinix

Tiller said:

Ummm that isn't my account bro, and any MMORPG.com mods could verify this.  Nice try though.

Nobody said it was

HeadHunterX2

Pher0cious said:

Tiller said:

Yeah this guy is being paid, there is not a person on this god forsaken earth who would waste this much time defending this mess without getting some sort of compensation for it.

That's what I've been saying! He works at CIG. He doesn't comment on anything else, like this is his job or something. 

I really hope he gets compensation for his effort, he more than deserves it. If he's doing this all own his own accord... yeesh, I don't even want to imagine what  kind of life that would look like...

Babuinix

HeadHunterX2 said:

Pher0cious said:

Tiller said:

Yeah this guy is being paid, there is not a person on this god forsaken earth who would waste this much time defending this mess without getting some sort of compensation for it.

That's what I've been saying! He works at CIG. He doesn't comment on anything else, like this is his job or something. 

I really hope he gets compensation for his effort, he more than deserves it. If he's doing this all own his own accord... yeesh, I don't even want to imagine what  kind of life that would look like...

I suppose remaking new accounts to attack Star Citizen is your kind of life? How many are they by now? I really hope you get compensation for this effort.

Slapshot1188

Babuinix said:

If you have no tolerance for setbacks you have no place or say in crowdfunding ventures, much less any place in game development discussion.  

See this is just demonstrating your utter and total disconnect from reality.  I, and most people had PLENTY of tolerance for setbacks.  Understood in 2014, 2015, 2016...

Its now 6+ YEARS of setbacks.  

The difference between you and the rest of humanity is that we understand that tolerance is not an unending resource.

Babuinix

Slapshot1188 said:

See this is just demonstrating your utter and total disconnect from reality.  I, and most people had PLENTY of tolerance for setbacks.  Understood in 2014, 2015, 2016...

Its now 6+ YEARS of setbacks.  

The difference between you and the rest of humanity is that we understand that tolerance is not an unending resource.

Nah, this is just you going back to square one with lying to youself by venting frustrations on a thread about the development of game while saying you only care about the release date.

People who only trully care about releases dates don't really crowdfund. They wait until something formal, steady and reviewed which they feel worthy of their time and money is available. Which is the sensible way to go btw.

People like us, dumb enough to risk early investments for the sake of trying to get new games/ideas we enjoy come to fruiton, games and genres that have been forgotten, neglected or just pushed asside by market margins, shareholders, political correctness or whatever.

Games which conventional studios cannot risk to make because they aren't viable

We backed a Chris Roberts epic space opera game with all the bells & whistles, which, by all footage and info released about it already, is exactly what the man is doing and some more. Wing Commander on steroids. No compromises.

See many games like that around after all these years? 

So why be frustrated or lash out at development news about a game you so eagerly want when you can apreciate it's making? Because the truth is, if you hadn't backed or even realised it was being developed you'd still be eagerly waiting for a game like SQ42 anyway. Might as well enjoy the fact of knowing it's actually being made 

lahnmir

Slapshot1188 said:

Babuinix said:

If you have no tolerance for setbacks you have no place or say in crowdfunding ventures, much less any place in game development discussion.  

See this is just demonstrating your utter and total disconnect from reality.  I, and most people had PLENTY of tolerance for setbacks.  Understood in 2014, 2015, 2016...

Its now 6+ YEARS of setbacks.  

The difference between you and the rest of humanity is that we understand that tolerance is not an unending resource.

Setbacks and delays happen often, not just with CIG. That doesn't make it okay or good (like some seem to believe) but it happens. The problem is that CIG keeps giving dates and timelines that don't match reality. Year after year, again and again. 

In fanboy land that means people who are critical are having onrealistic expectations and are to blame. The fanboys are basically saying that you shouldn't trust what CIG says because "stuff" happens while developing. The irony is not lost on most here since at the same time CIG can do no harm, you just shouldn't trust their timelines, roadmaps and dates.

In the real world when a company keeps failing to meet its own deadlines they are being held accountable and should A. Start making better promises/predictions/estimates or B. Don't make any promises/predictions/estimates at all. 

It really isn't that difficult in the end, deliver what you promise, when you promised it. Can't do that? Make better promises or don't promise at all (Babs for instance loves comparing CIG development to other projects that took very long. The difference is that those projects haven't been constantly giving guesstimates and dates like CIG has).

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Babuinix

If at this point anyone still equals crowdfunding with pre-ordering and/or mistakingly assume that estimates are promises You're the problem.

kitarad

Babuinix said:

If at this point anyone still equals crowdfunding with pre-ordering and/or mistakingly assume that estimates are promises You're the problem.

No, the problem is the lack of accountability in crowdfunding. 

Gdemami

kitarad said:

No, the problem is the lack of accountability in crowdfunding. 

No one forces you to throw money on crowdfunding, startups or w/e. You know the terms so take your responsibility.

Besides, one can still be prosecuted for fraud and some even did.

The difference tho is in what some self-entitled dimwits falsely consider a fraud - just because the game takes longer than they "think" it should or the game fails to deliver at all does not make it a fraud.