And rename this thread to... Wherefore Art Thou @Elloa ?
That would actually be funny you could do that and every time there was a new post she got a notification of being mentioned
The fact that Tim is liking these "where is the cm" posts kind of is revealing. I'd bet my left arm that the studio is going to announce it's closure in a few months.
I agree its revealing, but I'll take you up on that bet if you want. Say... by end of June? I'll accept photographic evidence of your payment.
What would you like to wager?
Your arm... as you already committed to.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
And rename this thread to... Wherefore Art Thou @Elloa ?
That would actually be funny you could do that and every time there was a new post she got a notification of being mentioned
The fact that Tim is liking these "where is the cm" posts kind of is revealing. I'd bet my left arm that the studio is going to announce it's closure in a few months.
I agree its revealing, but I'll take you up on that bet if you want. Say... by end of June? I'll accept photographic evidence of your payment.
What would you like to wager?
Your arm... as you already committed to.
What are YOU going to wager? You like things spelled out perfectly huh?
And rename this thread to... Wherefore Art Thou @Elloa ?
That would actually be funny you could do that and every time there was a new post she got a notification of being mentioned
The fact that Tim is liking these "where is the cm" posts kind of is revealing. I'd bet my left arm that the studio is going to announce it's closure in a few months.
I agree its revealing, but I'll take you up on that bet if you want. Say... by end of June? I'll accept photographic evidence of your payment.
What would you like to wager?
Your arm... as you already committed to.
What are YOU going to wager? You like things spelled out perfectly huh?
At least Elloa won’t get spammed because she is tagged in one of the first quotes
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
And rename this thread to... Wherefore Art Thou @Elloa ?
That would actually be funny you could do that and every time there was a new post she got a notification of being mentioned
The fact that Tim is liking these "where is the cm" posts kind of is revealing. I'd bet my left arm that the studio is going to announce it's closure in a few months.
I agree its revealing, but I'll take you up on that bet if you want. Say... by end of June? I'll accept photographic evidence of your payment.
What would you like to wager?
Your arm... as you already committed to.
What are YOU going to wager? You like things spelled out perfectly huh?
At least Elloa won’t get spammed because she is tagged in one of the first quotes
And rename this thread to... Wherefore Art Thou @Elloa ?
That would actually be funny you could do that and every time there was a new post she got a notification of being mentioned
The fact that Tim is liking these "where is the cm" posts kind of is revealing. I'd bet my left arm that the studio is going to announce it's closure in a few months.
I agree its revealing, but I'll take you up on that bet if you want. Say... by end of June? I'll accept photographic evidence of your payment.
What would you like to wager?
Your arm... as you already committed to.
What are YOU going to wager? You like things spelled out perfectly huh?
At least Elloa won’t get spammed because she is tagged in one of the first quotes
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Doesn't matter, she won't respond anyway.
I think she will, she is on another timezone (EU)though if I remember correctly. We’ll see.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
And rename this thread to... Wherefore Art Thou @Elloa ?
That would actually be funny you could do that and every time there was a new post she got a notification of being mentioned
The fact that Tim is liking these "where is the cm" posts kind of is revealing. I'd bet my left arm that the studio is going to announce it's closure in a few months.
I agree its revealing, but I'll take you up on that bet if you want. Say... by end of June? I'll accept photographic evidence of your payment.
What would you like to wager?
Your arm... as you already committed to.
What are YOU going to wager? You like things spelled out perfectly huh?
At least Elloa won’t get spammed because she is tagged in one of the first quotes
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Doesn't matter, she won't respond anyway.
I think she will, she is on another timezone (EU)though if I remember correctly. We’ll see.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
It's no win anyways, so I wouldn't bother of I were her.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And rename this thread to... Wherefore Art Thou @Elloa ?
That would actually be funny you could do that and every time there was a new post she got a notification of being mentioned
The fact that Tim is liking these "where is the cm" posts kind of is revealing. I'd bet my left arm that the studio is going to announce it's closure in a few months.
I agree its revealing, but I'll take you up on that bet if you want. Say... by end of June? I'll accept photographic evidence of your payment.
What would you like to wager?
Your arm... as you already committed to.
What are YOU going to wager? You like things spelled out perfectly huh?
As I didn’t make the boast? A hearty “Well done” if you win.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
And rename this thread to... Wherefore Art Thou @Elloa ?
That would actually be funny you could do that and every time there was a new post she got a notification of being mentioned
The fact that Tim is liking these "where is the cm" posts kind of is revealing. I'd bet my left arm that the studio is going to announce it's closure in a few months.
I agree its revealing, but I'll take you up on that bet if you want. Say... by end of June? I'll accept photographic evidence of your payment.
What would you like to wager?
Your arm... as you already committed to.
What are YOU going to wager? You like things spelled out perfectly huh?
As I didn’t make the boast? A hearty “Well done” if you win.
And rename this thread to... Wherefore Art Thou @Elloa ?
That would actually be funny you could do that and every time there was a new post she got a notification of being mentioned
The fact that Tim is liking these "where is the cm" posts kind of is revealing. I'd bet my left arm that the studio is going to announce it's closure in a few months.
I agree its revealing, but I'll take you up on that bet if you want. Say... by end of June? I'll accept photographic evidence of your payment.
What would you like to wager?
Your arm... as you already committed to.
What are YOU going to wager? You like things spelled out perfectly huh?
At least Elloa won’t get spammed because she is tagged in one of the first quotes
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Doesn't matter, she won't respond anyway.
I think she will, she is on another timezone (EU)though if I remember correctly. We’ll see.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
It's no win anyways, so I wouldn't bother of I were her.
Well actually, if you literally say "ask me questions" and then never come back... that's a straight up loss, but let's give her a day or so.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Hey hey everyone, I think you will all be interested by the official statement of Stormheaven Studio that you can find on our forums and social media: here
I copy paste it for your convenience:
Austin, TX, March 15, 2021 - Timothy and Joseph Anderson have withdrawn as members of Stormhaven Studios LLC and no longer represent the company in any capacity. The remaining team wishes them well in their future endeavors and thanks them for their contributions to the project. Stormhaven Studios remains committed to delivering an engaging MMORPG experience as development continues full steam ahead. Weekly testing sessions with the community have allowed the team to test critical infrastructure and gather feedback on game play features as they are introduced. At the current pace of production Stormhaven is confident in its ability to bring the product to launch in a timely manner. A number of exciting announcements are on the horizon; stay tuned for future updates.
- Stormheaven Studio has continued the development of the game and continued weekly alpha testing sessions with no interuption all along that BAT SHIT CRAZY year of 2020. - We do have hired several contractors at different points that have been paid or are currently paid for their work on the game. - We still plan monthly subscription for our buisness model however we still discuss details of how we will do it. We want something fair for both customers and our service.
If you have any questions related to Stormheaven Studio feel free to ask me. However I will not speak about Renfail's project as I've the same informations that you guys find on the web.
@Elloa can you clarify the timeline of Tim and Joseph Anderson's departure from the company?
@Renfail made a post in January 3rd saying that they "haven't been involved" since September 2020.
Yesterday, Stormhaven studios made the following statement:
"Tim and Joey aren't simply not involved, but are in fact no longer
owners of Stormhaven Studios or connected to the company in any way as
of today, March 15th."
Are you saying that @Renfail and his brother were still owners on March 14, 2021?
March 15th coincides with the public announcement and closing of the pre-order store. However, some might think you've been collecting pre-order pledge money, for the past 6 months, based on the false pretense that the founder of the company was still involved.
Not only is this question significant for pledges made through the store during this timeline, but even more so for investors and pitching. As I'm sure you're aware, the SEC/FTC has pretty strict regulations about transparency in this regard.
Hypothetically, if Stormhaven studios pitched to new investors (or kept their existing investors) in the dark about Renfail's departure for 6 months, they could be facing some serious legal trouble ahead.
From our very limited outside perspective, I'm sure you can agree that it looks like Stormhaven studios new leadership may have been a little less than forthright. Why not take a chance to set the record straight?
I wish Tim would just finally spill the beans on what is going on, unless he is suing these guys, that would be an interesting development.
Now they've confused you into thinking there's some type of internal problem which is their intention here..
Notice the agrees & insightful start flying from Tim when people start discussing the fictional 'confrontation' and SoL's de facto orange name PR guy all of a sudden acts civilized when people steer away from the FACT that this game is a 5+ year old tech/game demo...
Stay focused on the issue that 5+ years later the 'game' is still the same as it always was and them going to the extreme of pretending there was some type of falling out over a tech/game demo means we were right to call out this scam for what it was/is.
Notice the agrees & insightful start flying from Tim when people start discussing the fictional 'confrontation' and SoL's de facto orange name PR guy all of a sudden acts civilized when people steer away from the FACT that this game is a 5+ year old tech/game demo...
Stay focused on the issue that 5+ years later the 'game' is still the same as it always was and them going to the extreme of pretending there was some type of falling out over a tech/game demo means we were right to call out this scam for what it was/is.
I have no idea what state the game is in other than PseudoKano's statements about it. I have no way to refute that or deny it. I would not be shocked if that were the case. I mean, people in this thread gave money to a team that literally said they had no experience launching a game (let alone an MMORPG) and they were keeping their day jobs. While I would give that a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding, that doesn't detract from my opinion that from what I saw, they did Crowdfunding the right way (as in being as honest as possible about their skills and status).
That however is QUITE different from the whole "Tim stole the money" concept that was flouted with zero evidence and was somehow turned into "If you ask for evidence of allegations that he stole money then you support scamming".
Quite a difference. So lets try and be factual from our over the top soapbox.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Notice the agrees & insightful start flying from Tim when people start discussing the fictional 'confrontation' and SoL's de facto orange name PR guy all of a sudden acts civilized when people steer away from the FACT that this game is a 5+ year old tech/game demo...
Stay focused on the issue that 5+ years later the 'game' is still the same as it always was and them going to the extreme of pretending there was some type of falling out over a tech/game demo means we were right to call out this scam for what it was/is.
I have no idea what state the game is in other than PseudoKano's statements about it. I have no way to refute that or deny it. I would not be shocked if that were the case. I mean, people in this thread gave money to a team that literally said they had no experience launching a game (let alone an MMORPG) and they were keeping their day jobs. While I would give that a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding, that doesn't detract from my opinion that from what I saw, they did Crowdfunding the right way (as in being as honest as possible about their skills and status).
That however is QUITE different from the whole "Tim stole the money" concept that was flouted with zero evidence and was somehow turned into "If you ask for evidence of allegations that he stole money then you support scamming".
Quite a difference. So lets try and be factual from our over the top soapbox.
You keep repeating this no experience line, I hope you realize this was a marketing gimmick right? These guys weren't crowdfunding here either, they were selling pre-orders for a product, that might never launch. There might be some real legal problems for this company if they fail to launch, saying they didn't have the experience to potentially create their vision doesn't absolve them from people suing them.
They might get away with this under US laws, but other countries have way stricter consumer protection laws. I'm not even sure if this TOS is actually legal under US consumer laws.
Your payment is a deposit to be used for the development and production cost of the Game, including the website cost, the production and delivery cost for the pledge items, and Stormhaven Studio’s corporate expenses associated with the foregoing (the Game Cost).
The deposit shall be earned by Stormhaven Studios and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Game Cost, with each Contributor’s deposit being applied as follows: first to the fulfillment of the pre-order tier items, and then to the Game Cost in a percentage equal to the total applied Game Cost in relation to the total Contributor deposits remaining after the cost for the pledge items.
Stormhaven Studios agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date. However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a promise by Stormhaven Studios since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless Stormhaven Studios has not delivered the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date.
For the avoidance of doubt, in consideration of Stormhaven Studios’ good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any deposit amounts applied against the Game Cost as described above shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not Stormhaven Studios is able to complete and deliver the Game. In the unlikely event that Stormhaven Studios is not able to deliver the Game, Stormhaven Studios agrees to post a cost accounting on its website to fully explain the use of the deposits for the Game Cost. In consideration of the promises by Stormhaven Studios hereunder, you agree to irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any deposit amount that has been used for the Game Cost in accordance with the above.
You agree that Stormhaven Studios retains the unfettered right to modify its Game(s) and all aspects of characters, items, mechanics and concepts, therein. You acknowledge that Stormhaven Studios has been, is, and will be constantly making changes to its Game(s). You further acknowledge that Stormhaven Studios can and will, in its discretion, modify features, functions or abilities of any element of any of its Game(s).
STORMHAVEN STUDIOS MAY SUSPEND, MODIFY, TERMINATE OR DELETE ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. Accounts terminated by Stormhaven Studios for any type of abuse, including without limitation a violation of these Terms of Use or a Game EULA, will not be reactivated for any reason. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violations of this Terms of Use or any applicable Game EULA or NDA.
Notice the agrees & insightful start flying from Tim when people start discussing the fictional 'confrontation' and SoL's de facto orange name PR guy all of a sudden acts civilized when people steer away from the FACT that this game is a 5+ year old tech/game demo...
Stay focused on the issue that 5+ years later the 'game' is still the same as it always was and them going to the extreme of pretending there was some type of falling out over a tech/game demo means we were right to call out this scam for what it was/is.
I have no idea what state the game is in other than PseudoKano's statements about it. I have no way to refute that or deny it. I would not be shocked if that were the case. I mean, people in this thread gave money to a team that literally said they had no experience launching a game (let alone an MMORPG) and they were keeping their day jobs. While I would give that a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding, that doesn't detract from my opinion that from what I saw, they did Crowdfunding the right way (as in being as honest as possible about their skills and status).
That however is QUITE different from the whole "Tim stole the money" concept that was flouted with zero evidence and was somehow turned into "If you ask for evidence of allegations that he stole money then you support scamming".
Quite a difference. So lets try and be factual from our over the top soapbox.
You keep repeating this no experience line, I hope you realize this was a marketing gimmick right? These guys weren't crowdfunding here either, they were selling pre-orders for a product, that might never launch. There might be some real legal problems for this company if they fail to launch, saying they didn't have the experience to potentially create their vision doesn't absolve them from people suing them.
They might get away with this under US laws, but other countries have way stricter consumer protection laws. I'm not even sure if this TOS is actually legal under US consumer laws.
Your payment is a deposit to be used for the development and production cost of the Game, including the website cost, the production and delivery cost for the pledge items, and Stormhaven Studio’s corporate expenses associated with the foregoing (the Game Cost).
The deposit shall be earned by Stormhaven Studios and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Game Cost, with each Contributor’s deposit being applied as follows: first to the fulfillment of the pre-order tier items, and then to the Game Cost in a percentage equal to the total applied Game Cost in relation to the total Contributor deposits remaining after the cost for the pledge items.
Stormhaven Studios agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date. However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a promise by Stormhaven Studios since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless Stormhaven Studios has not delivered the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date.
For the avoidance of doubt, in consideration of Stormhaven Studios’ good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any deposit amounts applied against the Game Cost as described above shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not Stormhaven Studios is able to complete and deliver the Game. In the unlikely event that Stormhaven Studios is not able to deliver the Game, Stormhaven Studios agrees to post a cost accounting on its website to fully explain the use of the deposits for the Game Cost. In consideration of the promises by Stormhaven Studios hereunder, you agree to irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any deposit amount that has been used for the Game Cost in accordance with the above.
You agree that Stormhaven Studios retains the unfettered right to modify its Game(s) and all aspects of characters, items, mechanics and concepts, therein. You acknowledge that Stormhaven Studios has been, is, and will be constantly making changes to its Game(s). You further acknowledge that Stormhaven Studios can and will, in its discretion, modify features, functions or abilities of any element of any of its Game(s).
STORMHAVEN STUDIOS MAY SUSPEND, MODIFY, TERMINATE OR DELETE ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. Accounts terminated by Stormhaven Studios for any type of abuse, including without limitation a violation of these Terms of Use or a Game EULA, will not be reactivated for any reason. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violations of this Terms of Use or any applicable Game EULA or NDA.
Two completely different issues:
1. You keep repeating this no experience line, I hope you realize this was a marketing gimmick right? --- No. I do not realize that. If you have evidence (there's that word again) that they lied, please share.
2. These guys weren't crowdfunding here either, they were selling pre-orders for a product, that might never launch. --- Maybe. They DID Crowdfund. They did an Indiegogo which is LITERALLY a Crowdfunding site. That said, you may find that my beliefs related to store sales more closely align with yours than you think. Which leads to 3...
3. (yeah a bonus issue)--- It would seem that the TOS actually says customers can get a refund if delivery is delayed by 12 months. Seems quite reasonable to me. " . Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless Stormhaven Studios has not delivered the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date."
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Notice the agrees & insightful start flying from Tim when people start discussing the fictional 'confrontation' and SoL's de facto orange name PR guy all of a sudden acts civilized when people steer away from the FACT that this game is a 5+ year old tech/game demo...
Stay focused on the issue that 5+ years later the 'game' is still the same as it always was and them going to the extreme of pretending there was some type of falling out over a tech/game demo means we were right to call out this scam for what it was/is.
I have no idea what state the game is in other than PseudoKano's statements about it. I have no way to refute that or deny it. I would not be shocked if that were the case. I mean, people in this thread gave money to a team that literally said they had no experience launching a game (let alone an MMORPG) and they were keeping their day jobs. While I would give that a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding, that doesn't detract from my opinion that from what I saw, they did Crowdfunding the right way (as in being as honest as possible about their skills and status).
That however is QUITE different from the whole "Tim stole the money" concept that was flouted with zero evidence and was somehow turned into "If you ask for evidence of allegations that he stole money then you support scamming".
Quite a difference. So lets try and be factual from our over the top soapbox.
You keep repeating this no experience line, I hope you realize this was a marketing gimmick right? These guys weren't crowdfunding here either, they were selling pre-orders for a product, that might never launch. There might be some real legal problems for this company if they fail to launch, saying they didn't have the experience to potentially create their vision doesn't absolve them from people suing them.
They might get away with this under US laws, but other countries have way stricter consumer protection laws. I'm not even sure if this TOS is actually legal under US consumer laws.
Your payment is a deposit to be used for the development and production cost of the Game, including the website cost, the production and delivery cost for the pledge items, and Stormhaven Studio’s corporate expenses associated with the foregoing (the Game Cost).
The deposit shall be earned by Stormhaven Studios and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Game Cost, with each Contributor’s deposit being applied as follows: first to the fulfillment of the pre-order tier items, and then to the Game Cost in a percentage equal to the total applied Game Cost in relation to the total Contributor deposits remaining after the cost for the pledge items.
Stormhaven Studios agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date. However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a promise by Stormhaven Studios since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless Stormhaven Studios has not delivered the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date.
For the avoidance of doubt, in consideration of Stormhaven Studios’ good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any deposit amounts applied against the Game Cost as described above shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not Stormhaven Studios is able to complete and deliver the Game. In the unlikely event that Stormhaven Studios is not able to deliver the Game, Stormhaven Studios agrees to post a cost accounting on its website to fully explain the use of the deposits for the Game Cost. In consideration of the promises by Stormhaven Studios hereunder, you agree to irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any deposit amount that has been used for the Game Cost in accordance with the above.
You agree that Stormhaven Studios retains the unfettered right to modify its Game(s) and all aspects of characters, items, mechanics and concepts, therein. You acknowledge that Stormhaven Studios has been, is, and will be constantly making changes to its Game(s). You further acknowledge that Stormhaven Studios can and will, in its discretion, modify features, functions or abilities of any element of any of its Game(s).
STORMHAVEN STUDIOS MAY SUSPEND, MODIFY, TERMINATE OR DELETE ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. Accounts terminated by Stormhaven Studios for any type of abuse, including without limitation a violation of these Terms of Use or a Game EULA, will not be reactivated for any reason. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violations of this Terms of Use or any applicable Game EULA or NDA.
Two completely different issues:
1. You keep repeating this no experience line, I hope you realize this was a marketing gimmick right? --- No. I do not realize that. If you have evidence (there's that word again) that they lied, please share.
2. These guys weren't crowdfunding here either, they were selling pre-orders for a product, that might never launch. --- Maybe. They DID Crowdfund. They did an Indiegogo which is LITERALLY a Crowdfunding site. That said, you may find that my beliefs related to store sales more closely align with yours than you think. Which leads to 3...
3. (yeah a bonus issue)--- It would seem that the TOS actually says customers can get a refund if delivery is delayed by 12 months. Seems quite reasonable to me. " . Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless Stormhaven Studios has not delivered the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date."
I'll be surprised if that doesn't get "modified" sometime later this year.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'll be surprised if that doesn't get "modified" sometime later this year.
There is probably a consumer protection safety measure somewhere for such cases.
Otherwise, people would be able to issue pre-orders (not only for MMOs, or games, but for anything) dated a few months later, then change the terms of the pre-order to deliver the item at any time indefinitely in the future and keep the money.
Now you're starting to understand.
"There is probably a consumer protection safety measure somewhere for such cases" - There isn't. No none cares about games and/or crowdfund scams unless attention is brought to it in the news. No one is coming to save us so we must save ourselves.
The only reason CoE got slapped with a lawsuit is because 1. they announced they're done w/project 2. some rich whales probably with more money than you and I combined got together to pay for an attorney. That will never happen with this game cause they only took small 'pre-order' amounts and no one will waste money paying lawyers to get their $200 back. They know this which is why they want everyone to stay confused and keep discussing the drama rather than pressing them with real questions like details about exactly where backer money went.
I'll be surprised if that doesn't get "modified" sometime later this year.
There is probably a consumer protection safety measure somewhere for such cases.
Otherwise, people would be able to issue pre-orders (not only for MMOs, or games, but for anything) dated a few months later, then change the terms of the pre-order to deliver the item at any time indefinitely in the future and keep the money.
Now you're starting to understand.
"There is probably a consumer protection safety measure somewhere for such cases" - There isn't. No none cares about games and/or crowdfund scams unless attention is brought to it in the news. No one is coming to save us so we must save ourselves.
The only reason CoE got slapped with a lawsuit is because 1. they announced they're done w/project 2. some rich whales probably with more money than you and I combined got together to pay for an attorney. That will never happen with this game cause they only took small 'pre-order' amounts and no one will waste money paying lawyers to get their $200 back. They know this which is why they want everyone to stay confused and keep discussing the drama rather than pressing them with real questions like details about exactly where backer money went.
You left out the main reason CoE is actually getting sued. Their TOS specifically said that 3rd party TOS would take precedence and they used Xsolla as the payment processor. Xsolla had a refund clause which said you could refund purchases prior to release. And Xsolla actually has money.
Other than that you incorrectly stated that those lawyers were paid for by rich whales. The lawyers have not been paid at all. They have filed for a Class Action lawsuit and will take a (large) percent of any award.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Of note. After reading Bruce's email and responding, I decided to go to their forums and search. I found zero, as in not a single instance of customers asking for a refund.
I then went to their Discord and did the same. I found zero, as in not a single instance of customers asking for a refund.
So I personally find that very interesting.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Notice the agrees & insightful start flying from Tim when people start discussing the fictional 'confrontation' and SoL's de facto orange name PR guy all of a sudden acts civilized when people steer away from the FACT that this game is a 5+ year old tech/game demo...
Stay focused on the issue that 5+ years later the 'game' is still the same as it always was and them going to the extreme of pretending there was some type of falling out over a tech/game demo means we were right to call out this scam for what it was/is.
I have no idea what state the game is in other than PseudoKano's statements about it. I have no way to refute that or deny it. I would not be shocked if that were the case. I mean, people in this thread gave money to a team that literally said they had no experience launching a game (let alone an MMORPG) and they were keeping their day jobs. While I would give that a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding, that doesn't detract from my opinion that from what I saw, they did Crowdfunding the right way (as in being as honest as possible about their skills and status).
That however is QUITE different from the whole "Tim stole the money" concept that was flouted with zero evidence and was somehow turned into "If you ask for evidence of allegations that he stole money then you support scamming".
Quite a difference. So lets try and be factual from our over the top soapbox.
You keep repeating this no experience line, I hope you realize this was a marketing gimmick right? These guys weren't crowdfunding here either, they were selling pre-orders for a product, that might never launch. There might be some real legal problems for this company if they fail to launch, saying they didn't have the experience to potentially create their vision doesn't absolve them from people suing them.
They might get away with this under US laws, but other countries have way stricter consumer protection laws. I'm not even sure if this TOS is actually legal under US consumer laws.
Your payment is a deposit to be used for the development and production cost of the Game, including the website cost, the production and delivery cost for the pledge items, and Stormhaven Studio’s corporate expenses associated with the foregoing (the Game Cost).
The deposit shall be earned by Stormhaven Studios and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Game Cost, with each Contributor’s deposit being applied as follows: first to the fulfillment of the pre-order tier items, and then to the Game Cost in a percentage equal to the total applied Game Cost in relation to the total Contributor deposits remaining after the cost for the pledge items.
Stormhaven Studios agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date. However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a promise by Stormhaven Studios since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless Stormhaven Studios has not delivered the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date.
For the avoidance of doubt, in consideration of Stormhaven Studios’ good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any deposit amounts applied against the Game Cost as described above shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not Stormhaven Studios is able to complete and deliver the Game. In the unlikely event that Stormhaven Studios is not able to deliver the Game, Stormhaven Studios agrees to post a cost accounting on its website to fully explain the use of the deposits for the Game Cost. In consideration of the promises by Stormhaven Studios hereunder, you agree to irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any deposit amount that has been used for the Game Cost in accordance with the above.
You agree that Stormhaven Studios retains the unfettered right to modify its Game(s) and all aspects of characters, items, mechanics and concepts, therein. You acknowledge that Stormhaven Studios has been, is, and will be constantly making changes to its Game(s). You further acknowledge that Stormhaven Studios can and will, in its discretion, modify features, functions or abilities of any element of any of its Game(s).
STORMHAVEN STUDIOS MAY SUSPEND, MODIFY, TERMINATE OR DELETE ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. Accounts terminated by Stormhaven Studios for any type of abuse, including without limitation a violation of these Terms of Use or a Game EULA, will not be reactivated for any reason. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violations of this Terms of Use or any applicable Game EULA or NDA.
Two completely different issues:
1. You keep repeating this no experience line, I hope you realize this was a marketing gimmick right? --- No. I do not realize that. If you have evidence (there's that word again) that they lied, please share.
2. These guys weren't crowdfunding here either, they were selling pre-orders for a product, that might never launch. --- Maybe. They DID Crowdfund. They did an Indiegogo which is LITERALLY a Crowdfunding site. That said, you may find that my beliefs related to store sales more closely align with yours than you think. Which leads to 3...
3. (yeah a bonus issue)--- It would seem that the TOS actually says customers can get a refund if delivery is delayed by 12 months. Seems quite reasonable to me. " . Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless Stormhaven Studios has not delivered the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date."
I don't need any evidence, my years of being consumer tell me this is a marketing gimmick. By the way, I have some magic beans if you're interested.
I don't care if they crowdfunded in the past, they're selling pre-orders now to what is basically is vaporware at this point. There will be legal issues if they fail to launch this game. I wonder how they're going to issue refunds as well if all the money was spent too?
Keep shilling for these guys though, it only makes you look even more suspicious.
I have no idea what state the game is in other than PseudoKano's statements about it. I have no way to refute that or deny it. I would not be shocked if that were the case. I mean, people in this thread gave money to a team that literally said they had no experience launching a game (let alone an MMORPG) and they were keeping their day jobs. While I would give that a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding, that doesn't detract from my opinion that from what I saw, they did Crowdfunding the right way (as in being as honest as possible about their skills and status).
That however is QUITE different from the whole "Tim stole the money" concept that was flouted with zero evidence and was somehow turned into "If you ask for evidence of allegations that he stole money then you support scamming".
Quite a difference. So lets try and be factual from our over the top soapbox.
You keep repeating this no experience line, I hope you realize this was a marketing gimmick right? These guys weren't crowdfunding here either, they were selling pre-orders for a product, that might never launch. There might be some real legal problems for this company if they fail to launch, saying they didn't have the experience to potentially create their vision doesn't absolve them from people suing them.
They might get away with this under US laws, but other countries have way stricter consumer protection laws. I'm not even sure if this TOS is actually legal under US consumer laws.
Your payment is a deposit to be used for the development and production cost of the Game, including the website cost, the production and delivery cost for the pledge items, and Stormhaven Studio’s corporate expenses associated with the foregoing (the Game Cost).
The deposit shall be earned by Stormhaven Studios and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Game Cost, with each Contributor’s deposit being applied as follows: first to the fulfillment of the pre-order tier items, and then to the Game Cost in a percentage equal to the total applied Game Cost in relation to the total Contributor deposits remaining after the cost for the pledge items.
Stormhaven Studios agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date. However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a promise by Stormhaven Studios since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless Stormhaven Studios has not delivered the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date.
For the avoidance of doubt, in consideration of Stormhaven Studios’ good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any deposit amounts applied against the Game Cost as described above shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not Stormhaven Studios is able to complete and deliver the Game. In the unlikely event that Stormhaven Studios is not able to deliver the Game, Stormhaven Studios agrees to post a cost accounting on its website to fully explain the use of the deposits for the Game Cost. In consideration of the promises by Stormhaven Studios hereunder, you agree to irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any deposit amount that has been used for the Game Cost in accordance with the above.
You agree that Stormhaven Studios retains the unfettered right to modify its Game(s) and all aspects of characters, items, mechanics and concepts, therein. You acknowledge that Stormhaven Studios has been, is, and will be constantly making changes to its Game(s). You further acknowledge that Stormhaven Studios can and will, in its discretion, modify features, functions or abilities of any element of any of its Game(s).
STORMHAVEN STUDIOS MAY SUSPEND, MODIFY, TERMINATE OR DELETE ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. Accounts terminated by Stormhaven Studios for any type of abuse, including without limitation a violation of these Terms of Use or a Game EULA, will not be reactivated for any reason. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violations of this Terms of Use or any applicable Game EULA or NDA.
Two completely different issues:
1. You keep repeating this no experience line, I hope you realize this was a marketing gimmick right? --- No. I do not realize that. If you have evidence (there's that word again) that they lied, please share.
2. These guys weren't crowdfunding here either, they were selling pre-orders for a product, that might never launch. --- Maybe. They DID Crowdfund. They did an Indiegogo which is LITERALLY a Crowdfunding site. That said, you may find that my beliefs related to store sales more closely align with yours than you think. Which leads to 3...
3. (yeah a bonus issue)--- It would seem that the TOS actually says customers can get a refund if delivery is delayed by 12 months. Seems quite reasonable to me. " . Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless Stormhaven Studios has not delivered the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date."
I don't need any evidence, my years of being consumer tell me this is a marketing gimmick. By the way, I have some magic beans if you're interested.
I don't care if they crowdfunded in the past, they're selling pre-orders now to what is basically is vaporware at this point. There will be legal issues if they fail to launch this game. I wonder how they're going to issue refunds as well if all the money was spent too?
Keep shilling for these guys though, it only makes you look even more suspicious.
The fact that you keep calling me a shill for simply asking for anything to backup your allegations says a lot more about you than me. I mean, you know the names. Why bother doing a search to find the truth when you can just fall back on your "years of being a consumer". Just to be clear, you think their master plan was to be very experienced developers that launched titles in the past but thought it would help their secret plot to scam money by claiming to have no experience. THAT is what you are going with? And because I don't believe that simply based on your "years of being a consumer" and ask for some kind of supporting info... I'm a shill.
OK.. at least we are clear on that.
-munch
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This is a good start:
-Stormhaven Studios.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Well, that's bologna. I asked my question first and no PM here. They seem to be answering our questions completely out of order!
That however is QUITE different from the whole "Tim stole the money" concept that was flouted with zero evidence and was somehow turned into "If you ask for evidence of allegations that he stole money then you support scamming".
Quite a difference. So lets try and be factual from our over the top soapbox.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They might get away with this under US laws, but other countries have way stricter consumer protection laws. I'm not even sure if this TOS is actually legal under US consumer laws.
Your payment is a deposit to be used for the development and production cost of the Game, including the website cost, the production and delivery cost for the pledge items, and Stormhaven Studio’s corporate expenses associated with the foregoing (the Game Cost).
The deposit shall be earned by Stormhaven Studios and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Game Cost, with each Contributor’s deposit being applied as follows: first to the fulfillment of the pre-order tier items, and then to the Game Cost in a percentage equal to the total applied Game Cost in relation to the total Contributor deposits remaining after the cost for the pledge items.
Stormhaven Studios agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date. However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a promise by Stormhaven Studios since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless Stormhaven Studios has not delivered the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date.
For the avoidance of doubt, in consideration of Stormhaven Studios’ good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any deposit amounts applied against the Game Cost as described above shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not Stormhaven Studios is able to complete and deliver the Game. In the unlikely event that Stormhaven Studios is not able to deliver the Game, Stormhaven Studios agrees to post a cost accounting on its website to fully explain the use of the deposits for the Game Cost. In consideration of the promises by Stormhaven Studios hereunder, you agree to irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any deposit amount that has been used for the Game Cost in accordance with the above.
You agree that Stormhaven Studios retains the unfettered right to modify its Game(s) and all aspects of characters, items, mechanics and concepts, therein. You acknowledge that Stormhaven Studios has been, is, and will be constantly making changes to its Game(s). You further acknowledge that Stormhaven Studios can and will, in its discretion, modify features, functions or abilities of any element of any of its Game(s).
STORMHAVEN STUDIOS MAY SUSPEND, MODIFY, TERMINATE OR DELETE ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. Accounts terminated by Stormhaven Studios for any type of abuse, including without limitation a violation of these Terms of Use or a Game EULA, will not be reactivated for any reason. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violations of this Terms of Use or any applicable Game EULA or NDA.
1. You keep repeating this no experience line, I hope you realize this was a marketing gimmick right? --- No. I do not realize that. If you have evidence (there's that word again) that they lied, please share.
2. These guys weren't crowdfunding here either, they were selling pre-orders for a product, that might never launch. --- Maybe. They DID Crowdfund. They did an Indiegogo which is LITERALLY a Crowdfunding site. That said, you may find that my beliefs related to store sales more closely align with yours than you think. Which leads to 3...
3. (yeah a bonus issue)--- It would seem that the TOS actually says customers can get a refund if delivery is delayed by 12 months. Seems quite reasonable to me.
" . Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless Stormhaven Studios has not delivered the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date."
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Other than that you incorrectly stated that those lawyers were paid for by rich whales. The lawyers have not been paid at all. They have filed for a Class Action lawsuit and will take a (large) percent of any award.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I then went to their Discord and did the same. I found zero, as in not a single instance of customers asking for a refund.
So I personally find that very interesting.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't care if they crowdfunded in the past, they're selling pre-orders now to what is basically is vaporware at this point. There will be legal issues if they fail to launch this game. I wonder how they're going to issue refunds as well if all the money was spent too?
Keep shilling for these guys though, it only makes you look even more suspicious.
Just to be clear, you think their master plan was to be very experienced developers that launched titles in the past but thought it would help their secret plot to scam money by claiming to have no experience. THAT is what you are going with?
And because I don't believe that simply based on your "years of being a consumer" and ask for some kind of supporting info... I'm a shill.
OK.. at least we are clear on that.
-munch
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018