Kickstarters and Go Fund Me's will never see a dime from me.....Too many scams
So there is zero accountability, zero process for follow through - it's money freely given, freely kept by someone who has no obligation at all to finish the project, or even put much effort into it.
There's still the contract that Kickstarter creators sign that stipulates they have the obligation to complete the project and fulfill all rewards, and if they're unable to achieve that they must comply with a series of obligations, or else they may be subject to legal actions by backers.
Is 100 hundred years still eligible? No time is set for that "completion", so those with unfinished projects just keep on "talking the talk" instead of "walking the walk."
I don't know, but how many KS projects have seen legal action taken? How many successful ones? I also notice that it is up to backers to initiate this legal action, which costs even more money, not Kiskstarter itself.
The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.
I see a lot of "words" that have very little bite to them. As long as a project gives updates (no proof, just words), they are fine according to KS.
There have been a few that legal action has been taken against.
One of the more famous ones, that I remember and was looking at, when randomly looking up Kickstarter fails and the like, was some cooler that, after years of trying to make it production viable, they gave up, but still had to provide a cooler to each of their backers.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Kickstarters and Go Fund Me's will never see a dime from me.....Too many scams
So there is zero accountability, zero process for follow through - it's money freely given, freely kept by someone who has no obligation at all to finish the project, or even put much effort into it.
There's still the contract that Kickstarter creators sign that stipulates they have the obligation to complete the project and fulfill all rewards, and if they're unable to achieve that they must comply with a series of obligations, or else they may be subject to legal actions by backers.
Is 100 hundred years still eligible? No time is set for that "completion", so those with unfinished projects just keep on "talking the talk" instead of "walking the walk."
I don't know, but how many KS projects have seen legal action taken? How many successful ones? I also notice that it is up to backers to initiate this legal action, which costs even more money, not Kiskstarter itself.
The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.
I see a lot of "words" that have very little bite to them. As long as a project gives updates (no proof, just words), they are fine according to KS.
There have been a few that legal action has been taken against.
One of the more famous ones, that I remember and was looking at, when randomly looking up Kickstarter fails and the like, was some cooler that, after years of trying to make it production viable, they gave up, but still had to provide a cooler to each of their backers.
After reading that list of fails. One thing that stands out to me. Most of those fails at least had a project delivered, although extremely low quality.
With MMO's we are not even talking quality issues at this point. They just want to see a product actually release. MMO's are failing spectacularly.
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
That is a fair point, but Kickstarter also does not oversea the project, and they make it clear they do not oversee any of the projects. However, If things go wrong, the backers can hold the creator to the contract they signed with Kickstarter as a bases of their legal action, so they do what they can to help the backers, without needing to get handsy with the whole process.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Gentlemen... I will be launching an MMO Kickstarter that only does MMO Kickstarting... that creates and maximizes other MMO Kickstarters past and future.
No idea is too frivolous, no hype too overblown, no experience required... we will get that KS $$ for you!!
By giving me pledges, you get a founder's pack that gives you inside access to all the quality KS MMOs we will be representing.
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
How about Kickstarter's cut gets held in escrow until product is delivered?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I have no idea why people are trying to punish Kickstarter.
They make it clear, their entire platform is to connect creators with backers.
Kickstarter did nothing wrong, if the Creator screws people, than the Creator is the Asshole that did wrong and should be punished, not Kickstarter.
That is like someone feeling that should be allowed to kick you personally in the face for what your coworker did, because "You are both in the same company"
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
Kickstarter's sole role is facilitating the connection of projects seeking funding and those seeking projects to fund. Once that is done their involvement ceases.
They have no influence on the success or failure of the projects, so I doubt any court will find against them in any legislation brought forward.
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
How about Kickstarter's cut gets held in escrow until product is delivered?
I don't think any company would want a business model based upon "we might get paid but even if we do it could be years."
I agree with Ungood, Kickstarter is just a way to bring people together to fund and make a product.
It's almost like wanting to punish Craig's list for hosting an advertisement for a vintage guitar that turns out not to be a vintage guitar.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
How about Kickstarter's cut gets held in escrow until product is delivered?
I don't think any company would want a business model based upon "we might get paid but even if we do it could be years."
I agree with Ungood, Kickstarter is just a way to bring people together to fund and make a product.
It's almost like wanting to punish Craig's list for hosting an advertisement for a vintage guitar that turns out not to be a vintage guitar.
Craigslist was actually punished (as was Backpage) for hosting things that turned out to be illegal. Ebay is probably a good comp as well. Ebay has been successfully sued for not screening it's vendors who subsequently sold counterfeit goods. Ebay literally just puts sellers and buyers together and takes a cut. As a result all of those companies instituted changes (I think backpage is defunct). Amazon has ongoing similar litigation stating that they do not do enough to combat fraud. As a result Amazon now routinely sues vendors that sell counterfeits on their site.
All these companies did/do SOMETHING. I think Kickstarter needs to make some effort here. Honestly though, consumers can drive it on their own. If they stop using Kickstarter because of this then Kickstarter will find it in their own interest to take action.
Too many people just excuse them.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
Kickstarter's sole role is facilitating the connection of projects seeking funding and those seeking projects to fund. Once that is done their involvement ceases.
They have no influence on the success or failure of the projects, so I doubt any court will find against them in any legislation brought forward.
People need to understand they are basically just making a donation...>There are no guarantees and theres a possibility they get nothing in return.....If yo uwant to make a better investment, then buy a game off Steam of some other site that will give you your money back if unsatisfied. Otherwise, buyer beware.
For the Record, Kickstarter does screen against blatant Illegal activities. AFIK, All platforms do these days, from Ebay, to Craigslist, to anyone else.
Kickstarter also provides a report button for their clients if they suspect that Creator is seeking to get funds for an illegal or shady venture, at which Kickstarter, at their discretion will shut it down. And they have been on record for shutting down many ventures due to suspicious activity, including fraud.
So it's not like they just sit on their hands and do nothing.
But there is a point where it is out of their hands. That point happens after the product has been funded and the money has been exchanged. This ends Kickstarter's direct involvement, their ToS that a creator must sign, can still be used to bring a case against a creator if they fail to operate in good faith, and that also has been done.
But there is a point where they are no longer directly involved, and they clearly state that point is when the money changes hands.
Before that point, is when they can and do things to protect their clients on both ends of the exchange.
After that point, it's between the Creator and their Backers, and Kickstarter has no further involvement.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
How about Kickstarter's cut gets held in escrow until product is delivered?
I don't think any company would want a business model based upon "we might get paid but even if we do it could be years."
I agree with Ungood, Kickstarter is just a way to bring people together to fund and make a product.
It's almost like wanting to punish Craig's list for hosting an advertisement for a vintage guitar that turns out not to be a vintage guitar.
Craigslist was actually punished (as was Backpage) for hosting things that turned out to be illegal. Ebay is probably a good comp as well. Ebay has been successfully sued for not screening it's vendors who subsequently sold counterfeit goods. Ebay literally just puts sellers and buyers together and takes a cut. As a result all of those companies instituted changes (I think backpage is defunct). Amazon has ongoing similar litigation stating that they do not do enough to combat fraud. As a result Amazon now routinely sues vendors that sell counterfeits on their site.
All these companies did/do SOMETHING. I think Kickstarter needs to make some effort here. Honestly though, consumers can drive it on their own. If they stop using Kickstarter because of this then Kickstarter will find it in their own interest to take action.
Too many people just excuse them.
I think that's ridiculous. How can crag's list be punished for someone else's scam? any link or info on what that was and what they did as I don't seem to find anything other than some dating thing they discontinued.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
How about Kickstarter's cut gets held in escrow until product is delivered?
I don't think any company would want a business model based upon "we might get paid but even if we do it could be years."
I agree with Ungood, Kickstarter is just a way to bring people together to fund and make a product.
It's almost like wanting to punish Craig's list for hosting an advertisement for a vintage guitar that turns out not to be a vintage guitar.
Or maybe even like suing a payment processor when a game fails to deliver, even when all monies collected were clearly marked with a no refund policy?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't think any company would want a business model based upon "we might get paid but even if we do it could be years."
I agree with Ungood, Kickstarter is just a way to bring people together to fund and make a product.
It's almost like wanting to punish Craig's list for hosting an advertisement for a vintage guitar that turns out not to be a vintage guitar.
Or maybe even like suing a payment processor when a game fails to deliver, even when all monies collected were clearly marked with a no refund policy?
This a solid analogy, because the Payment processor does not have the authority of their own right to issue refunds, manly because they don't actually get to keep the funds, they simply process the monies from one client to another, with an agreed upon fee for doing so. As such a refund has to come direct from the provider who received the payment and did not provide the product.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
How about Kickstarter's cut gets held in escrow until product is delivered?
I don't think any company would want a business model based upon "we might get paid but even if we do it could be years."
I agree with Ungood, Kickstarter is just a way to bring people together to fund and make a product.
It's almost like wanting to punish Craig's list for hosting an advertisement for a vintage guitar that turns out not to be a vintage guitar.
Or maybe even like suing a payment processor when a game fails to deliver, even when all monies collected were clearly marked with a no refund policy?
Except of course it’s not that simple in the case you describe. The analogy would be if Kickstarter used Xsolla as a payment processor and said that Xsolla’s TOS would prevail. And Xsolla had a refund policy. In that case... yeah I’d see a case for a refund.
And a court will decide the merits of that case... someday... maybe while we still live.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
How about Kickstarter's cut gets held in escrow until product is delivered?
I don't think any company would want a business model based upon "we might get paid but even if we do it could be years."
I agree with Ungood, Kickstarter is just a way to bring people together to fund and make a product.
It's almost like wanting to punish Craig's list for hosting an advertisement for a vintage guitar that turns out not to be a vintage guitar.
Craigslist was actually punished (as was Backpage) for hosting things that turned out to be illegal. Ebay is probably a good comp as well. Ebay has been successfully sued for not screening it's vendors who subsequently sold counterfeit goods. Ebay literally just puts sellers and buyers together and takes a cut. As a result all of those companies instituted changes (I think backpage is defunct). Amazon has ongoing similar litigation stating that they do not do enough to combat fraud. As a result Amazon now routinely sues vendors that sell counterfeits on their site.
All these companies did/do SOMETHING. I think Kickstarter needs to make some effort here. Honestly though, consumers can drive it on their own. If they stop using Kickstarter because of this then Kickstarter will find it in their own interest to take action.
Too many people just excuse them.
I think that's ridiculous. How can crag's list be punished for someone else's scam? any link or info on what that was and what they did as I don't seem to find anything other than some dating thing they discontinued.
Here is one from EBay... $61M it also talks about other examples where EBay was liable for what vendors did on their site and how it prompted EBay to make massive investments to prevent fraud. https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/technology/01ebay.html
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
Kickstarter's sole role is facilitating the connection of projects seeking funding and those seeking projects to fund. Once that is done their involvement ceases.
They have no influence on the success or failure of the projects, so I doubt any court will find against them in any legislation brought forward.
People need to understand they are basically just making a donation...>There are no guarantees and theres a possibility they get nothing in return.....If yo uwant to make a better investment, then buy a game off Steam of some other site that will give you your money back if unsatisfied. Otherwise, buyer beware.
They aren't making a donation, but risking their money on a desired outcome. Such is the case when anyone puts money into what might or not eventually be.
Buying what exists isn't necessarily a better deal if what you really want is that which does not, but may with your help and that of others.
It is very high risk, as one can easily lose everything they put it. But, so long as one doesn't put more in then they can afford to lose without financial distress, the risk will remain high but the consequence of a failed project low.
So, buyer beware as you say, and don't gamble more than you can lose outright, as that may very well be the outcome.
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
Kickstarter's sole role is facilitating the connection of projects seeking funding and those seeking projects to fund. Once that is done their involvement ceases.
They have no influence on the success or failure of the projects, so I doubt any court will find against them in any legislation brought forward.
People need to understand they are basically just making a donation...>There are no guarantees and theres a possibility they get nothing in return.....If yo uwant to make a better investment, then buy a game off Steam of some other site that will give you your money back if unsatisfied. Otherwise, buyer beware.
They aren't making a donation, but risking their money on a desired outcome. Such is the case when anyone puts money into what might or not eventually be.
Buying what exists isn't necessarily a better deal if what you really want is that which does not, but may with your help and that of others.
It is very high risk, as one can easily lose everything they put it. But, so long as one doesn't put more in then they can afford to lose without financial distress, the risk will remain high but the consequence of a failed project low.
So, buyer beware as you say, and don't gamble more than you can lose outright, as that may very well be the outcome.
I agree with all of that... so long as the information provided is accurate. For instance if a company says they will use the money for X,y,z and not pay themselves but then pay themselves... that's fraud IMHO.
If a Kickstarter is supposed to (by their rules) be for all the money required to complete the project, then the company can't later say "that was just seed money and we will need millions more). That's fraud IMHO...
As long as people are given the right information to make their choices, there are no guarantees of success, but IMHO giving inaccurate information to obtain money is fraud.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Craigslist was not found of any wrongdoing in any legal action, as they are a host site, not a publisher, and while directly mentioned in the legal documents, the main company and it's CEO and Founder have been removed from the allegations entirely. While Craigslist does have a direct disclaimer of what they will allow, which directly mentions they do not allow any illegal posting, as well as they do not allow selling animals, and firearms, and a few other things they do not allow. And in that regard, they do in fact quickly remove anything that gets reported/flagged as violating their ToS, they do not actively create or monitor the content of their platform, and thus not directly liable for what is put there, but will swiftly respond to anything illegal or against their ToS that they are made aware of.
Ebay, functions the same way, and so far has appealed their judgment, and not paid out any money regarding the their claims of counterfeit merchandise being sold on their platform. However, Ebay has made it clear they will police their platform better going forward, but at the end of the day, they also have a flag system for tagging anything illegal/against their ToS on their platform, and they also will, quickly remove any illegal activity they are made aware of from their platform.
In that vein, Kickstarter also has a flagging system, and they too remove anything illegal, or violates their ToS, but, this only can be addressed and enforced before the funds change hands, not 5 years later when you all realized you got played by a scam artist.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I have no idea why people are trying to punish Kickstarter.
They make it clear, their entire platform is to connect creators with backers.
Kickstarter did nothing wrong, if the Creator screws people, than the Creator is the Asshole that did wrong and should be punished, not Kickstarter.
That is like someone feeling that should be allowed to kick you personally in the face for what your coworker did, because "You are both in the same company"
I'm not trying to punish Kickstarter, though it does sound as though I am. Really, there is no "punishment" needed in my eyes. Backing a project is a gamble. I don't seek to punish casinos nor their patrons. It's their money to spend (or rake in) as they see fit.
Kickstarter is a good service, in most ways except in video game creation. They do have many successes with many video games, though MMOs specifically seem to fall short through no fault of theirs. I have seen many backed projects like board games do wonderfully well. It's a good idea, in my opinion, to get money for projects that may not interest serious investors.
I can warn people not to play roulette, but the decision is theirs to make. I do the same with Kickstarter MMO ideas: warn only, though I may seem sometimes overzealous in my warnings
I hope that makes sense
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
Kickstarter's sole role is facilitating the connection of projects seeking funding and those seeking projects to fund. Once that is done their involvement ceases.
They have no influence on the success or failure of the projects, so I doubt any court will find against them in any legislation brought forward.
People need to understand they are basically just making a donation...>There are no guarantees and theres a possibility they get nothing in return.....If yo uwant to make a better investment, then buy a game off Steam of some other site that will give you your money back if unsatisfied. Otherwise, buyer beware.
They aren't making a donation, but risking their money on a desired outcome. Such is the case when anyone puts money into what might or not eventually be.
Buying what exists isn't necessarily a better deal if what you really want is that which does not, but may with your help and that of others.
It is very high risk, as one can easily lose everything they put it. But, so long as one doesn't put more in then they can afford to lose without financial distress, the risk will remain high but the consequence of a failed project low.
So, buyer beware as you say, and don't gamble more than you can lose outright, as that may very well be the outcome.
I agree with all of that... so long as the information provided is accurate. For instance if a company says they will use the money for X,y,z and not pay themselves but then pay themselves... that's fraud IMHO.
If a Kickstarter is supposed to (by their rules) be for all the money required to complete the project, then the company can't later say "that was just seed money and we will need millions more). That's fraud IMHO...
As long as people are given the right information to make their choices, there are no guarantees of success, but IMHO giving inaccurate information to obtain money is fraud.
The accuracy of the information and following through on intent is ultimately the responsibility of those seeking funding, not the platform on which funding is sought.
Kickstarter can express what should be done, and have those offering projects pinky swear it will be so, but they have no influence over what is actually done. Cases of potential fraud would have to be taken up with those offering the project.
Comments
One of the more famous ones, that I remember and was looking at, when randomly looking up Kickstarter fails and the like, was some cooler that, after years of trying to make it production viable, they gave up, but still had to provide a cooler to each of their backers.
Anyway.. check out Kickstarter Fails.
And yes.. legal action can, and does get taken.
With MMO's we are not even talking quality issues at this point. They just want to see a product actually release. MMO's are failing spectacularly.
My point about the legal action is this: Kickstarter does NOT (as far as I can tell) bring legal action, but rather the donaters are left to do it. I was addressing "Kickstarter's vested interest" point. They got paid. Now, if Kickstarter also has to pay back what they charged the failures, then I can see them having a vested interest
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
No idea is too frivolous, no hype too overblown, no experience required... we will get that KS $$ for you!!
By giving me pledges, you get a founder's pack that gives you inside access to all the quality KS MMOs we will be representing.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They make it clear, their entire platform is to connect creators with backers.
Kickstarter did nothing wrong, if the Creator screws people, than the Creator is the Asshole that did wrong and should be punished, not Kickstarter.
That is like someone feeling that should be allowed to kick you personally in the face for what your coworker did, because "You are both in the same company"
They have no influence on the success or failure of the projects, so I doubt any court will find against them in any legislation brought forward.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
All these companies did/do SOMETHING. I think Kickstarter needs to make some effort here. Honestly though, consumers can drive it on their own. If they stop using Kickstarter because of this then Kickstarter will find it in their own interest to take action.
Too many people just excuse them.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
People need to understand they are basically just making a donation...>There are no guarantees and theres a possibility they get nothing in return.....If yo uwant to make a better investment, then buy a game off Steam of some other site that will give you your money back if unsatisfied. Otherwise, buyer beware.
Kickstarter also provides a report button for their clients if they suspect that Creator is seeking to get funds for an illegal or shady venture, at which Kickstarter, at their discretion will shut it down. And they have been on record for shutting down many ventures due to suspicious activity, including fraud.
So it's not like they just sit on their hands and do nothing.
But there is a point where it is out of their hands. That point happens after the product has been funded and the money has been exchanged. This ends Kickstarter's direct involvement, their ToS that a creator must sign, can still be used to bring a case against a creator if they fail to operate in good faith, and that also has been done.
But there is a point where they are no longer directly involved, and they clearly state that point is when the money changes hands.
Before that point, is when they can and do things to protect their clients on both ends of the exchange.
After that point, it's between the Creator and their Backers, and Kickstarter has no further involvement.
I think that's ridiculous. How can crag's list be punished for someone else's scam? any link or info on what that was and what they did as I don't seem to find anything other than some dating thing they discontinued.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And a court will decide the merits of that case... someday... maybe while we still live.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Here is one from EBay... $61M it also talks about other examples where EBay was liable for what vendors did on their site and how it prompted EBay to make massive investments to prevent fraud. https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/technology/01ebay.html
https://www.chronline.com/stories/federal-lawsuit-alleges-craigslist-and-several-south-sound-hotels-profited-from-child-sex,6373
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Buying what exists isn't necessarily a better deal if what you really want is that which does not, but may with your help and that of others.
It is very high risk, as one can easily lose everything they put it. But, so long as one doesn't put more in then they can afford to lose without financial distress, the risk will remain high but the consequence of a failed project low.
So, buyer beware as you say, and don't gamble more than you can lose outright, as that may very well be the outcome.
For instance if a company says they will use the money for X,y,z and not pay themselves but then pay themselves... that's fraud IMHO.
If a Kickstarter is supposed to (by their rules) be for all the money required to complete the project, then the company can't later say "that was just seed money and we will need millions more). That's fraud IMHO...
As long as people are given the right information to make their choices, there are no guarantees of success, but IMHO giving inaccurate information to obtain money is fraud.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Craigslist was not found of any wrongdoing in any legal action, as they are a host site, not a publisher, and while directly mentioned in the legal documents, the main company and it's CEO and Founder have been removed from the allegations entirely. While Craigslist does have a direct disclaimer of what they will allow, which directly mentions they do not allow any illegal posting, as well as they do not allow selling animals, and firearms, and a few other things they do not allow. And in that regard, they do in fact quickly remove anything that gets reported/flagged as violating their ToS, they do not actively create or monitor the content of their platform, and thus not directly liable for what is put there, but will swiftly respond to anything illegal or against their ToS that they are made aware of.
Ebay, functions the same way, and so far has appealed their judgment, and not paid out any money regarding the their claims of counterfeit merchandise being sold on their platform. However, Ebay has made it clear they will police their platform better going forward, but at the end of the day, they also have a flag system for tagging anything illegal/against their ToS on their platform, and they also will, quickly remove any illegal activity they are made aware of from their platform.
In that vein, Kickstarter also has a flagging system, and they too remove anything illegal, or violates their ToS, but, this only can be addressed and enforced before the funds change hands, not 5 years later when you all realized you got played by a scam artist.
I think most of the money for most games are actually raised after kickstarter campaign when they sell foundain's package or alpha/beta access.
Kickstarter is a good service, in most ways except in video game creation. They do have many successes with many video games, though MMOs specifically seem to fall short through no fault of theirs. I have seen many backed projects like board games do wonderfully well. It's a good idea, in my opinion, to get money for projects that may not interest serious investors.
I can warn people not to play roulette, but the decision is theirs to make. I do the same with Kickstarter MMO ideas: warn only, though I may seem sometimes overzealous in my warnings
I hope that makes sense
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The accuracy of the information and following through on intent is ultimately the responsibility of those seeking funding, not the platform on which funding is sought.
Kickstarter can express what should be done, and have those offering projects pinky swear it will be so, but they have no influence over what is actually done. Cases of potential fraud would have to be taken up with those offering the project.
Some projects on offer show substantial amounts raised, so getting much is quite possible.