FYI: why would I care if you, or anyone else for that matter, ignore me? You don't have to inform me mate. Do as you please. Nobody cares.
That's a good place to be.
Given the choice between the "ma freedoms" crowd (as ignorant as they may be) and the mask wearing crowds that also submit to a social credit system - well, I'm going to throw in with the "ma freedoms" crowd.
I'd rather not have to make that choice, tho. Best to you.
I just named you several examples that are free countries with mask wearing culture. I never said all countries should follow China's example. I said mask culture in Asian countries. You are sticking to a narrative that has nothing to do with that I said.
Fair enough.
Although to be fair to myself when you referenced the "ma freedom" crowd you tipped your hand a little bit. Who would the "ma freedom" crowd, that you slander with a mis-spelling, be exactly?
Would those be the people who don't immediately accept every dictate the government hands down? Asians have a tendency to embrace more of the group/social dynamic than the individualistic west - both sides have serious benefits/problems. You pointed out a slam against the "mah freedoms" crowd, citing culture in Asian countries, I responded with pointing out that culture can have a downside as well.
People who think wearing a mask in closed public places to lower the rate of COVID spread infringes upon their personal freedom.
I cited the mask-wearing Asian culture. Not all Asian culture. You don't have to look very hard to find a lot of fucked upness in all Asian countries.
Also, the same ma-freedom crowd, got beliefs and culture that I do believe in too. For instance, personal responsibility, individuality, nationalism (maybe not all of them), free speech and the right to keep and bear arms.
The thing is, I was born in a country that wasn't free. It was the opposite of free. So I learned to appreciate freedom differently than people who were born free. Obviously, there are things that I don't understand. But I have traveled a lot and learned that freedom has many different aspects, and you can't have it all. World isn't black or white. Or red or blue in this case.
Does the reasonableness of a mandate depend on whether what is mandated actually works for its stated goals? Could they mandate that everyone must wear a purple hat as an anti-COVID measure in order to appease some long-forgotten deity?
What I don't like about the rush to mandate things is that the people who do it tend not to care if it works. If they had started some large-scale studies to determine which particular types of masks work or don't early on on the pandemic, and the mandates were only a placeholder that was openly proclaimed would be changed once the evidence came in, I'd respect that. That would be taking a scientific approach, which is something that few world leaders have any interest in.
Even today, when the evidence on masks is still very weak nearly two years into the pandemic, if they were to mandate and distribute good masks that are likely to be helpful (at minimum, a paper mask that fits well enough to force air to go through it rather than around it), I could respect that. But a mask mandate that is readily satisfied by a simple piece of cloth or a surgical masks with gaping holes on the sides has no basis in science. That's not the sort of thing that anyone would do if COVID prevention were the goal.
Because there is no such thing as owning too many books.
I didn't make it a racial thing. I don't think you are racist, and I don't believe your comments had anything to do with race.
Mentioning North Korea as the second country doesn't really help your case. South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, are a few examples of a mask-wearing culture (way before COVID). Compare your numbers to them.
FYI: why would I care if you, or anyone else for that matter, ignore me? You don't have to inform me mate. Do as you please. Nobody cares.
Ok, to be fair, in some Asian nations, the mask wearing culture derived from bad air quality, and are in every sense of the word, totally optional, if you want to wear a mask because the air smells like soiled mushrooms, you can, if you want sniff that industrial lime and acidic ass smell with zero filter, you can do that as well.
But, in some of those nations, the mask became somewhat a cultural fashion thing because so many people opted, of their own volition, to wear it, and I can respect that kind of organic cultural style developing, rather cool all things said and done.
It's also doubly functional, really, only needing to do half your make-up and not worry about your teeth or breath, is a really attractive selling point, as well as a variety of cool designs, and all that jazz.
However, that has nothing to do with what is going on with current affairs involving face masks.
So please do not try to cross the two, they have nothing in common.
You are correct about air-pollution. But there is also the f'ing influenza. I've been to a lot of places, but always had the worst cases of flu in Asia. Then there was the whole bird-flu and swine-flu and shit-flu. So people realised wearing masks has helped with that, so people wore masks for COVID too.
I am not sure which two you meant that I have crossed. I said I believe masks reduce the COVID spread. Some countries protested that, some didn't, had that from before. You can compare those two types and realise the vast difference of numbers. I am sure there are other factors involved too. But it is impossible to deny the effects of masks.
Again, the masks were derived from Air Quality, and became a Fashion Statement, and had nothing to do with disease control.
For me, really?
The real wake up call was at the start of the pandemic, people in America acted like washing their hands was some new thing, and could not figure out how to do it right, or when to time it.
That alone, the very idea that people were confused about when and how to wash their hands, was enough to invalidate all other means of PPE and health precautions.
As far as comparing them.. trying to say being required by government regulation to wear a mask having any relation to Wearing a Mask of your own volition for Cultural Fashion, is downright dishonest.
Just to help me understand clear, you think Asian countries wear masks for fashion and not to reduce the spread of diseases? If so, why on earth you believe so?
Of course when there is a market for masks then the market would try to produce a variety of it. But the reason people wear it one was for air pollution correct but not all of cities suffer from air pollution, they also wear for diseases and such.
I don't understand what is your argument regarding that part.
About not trusting your own government. Well. That's more on the government than the people. I get that part. But even the shadiest governments don't lie about everything. It's not like only one government believes masks help.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Because there is no such thing as owning too many books.
I didn't make it a racial thing. I don't think you are racist, and I don't believe your comments had anything to do with race.
Mentioning North Korea as the second country doesn't really help your case. South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, are a few examples of a mask-wearing culture (way before COVID). Compare your numbers to them.
FYI: why would I care if you, or anyone else for that matter, ignore me? You don't have to inform me mate. Do as you please. Nobody cares.
Ok, to be fair, in some Asian nations, the mask wearing culture derived from bad air quality, and are in every sense of the word, totally optional, if you want to wear a mask because the air smells like soiled mushrooms, you can, if you want sniff that industrial lime and acidic ass smell with zero filter, you can do that as well.
But, in some of those nations, the mask became somewhat a cultural fashion thing because so many people opted, of their own volition, to wear it, and I can respect that kind of organic cultural style developing, rather cool all things said and done.
It's also doubly functional, really, only needing to do half your make-up and not worry about your teeth or breath, is a really attractive selling point, as well as a variety of cool designs, and all that jazz.
However, that has nothing to do with what is going on with current affairs involving face masks.
So please do not try to cross the two, they have nothing in common.
You are correct about air-pollution. But there is also the f'ing influenza. I've been to a lot of places, but always had the worst cases of flu in Asia. Then there was the whole bird-flu and swine-flu and shit-flu. So people realised wearing masks has helped with that, so people wore masks for COVID too.
I am not sure which two you meant that I have crossed. I said I believe masks reduce the COVID spread. Some countries protested that, some didn't, had that from before. You can compare those two types and realise the vast difference of numbers. I am sure there are other factors involved too. But it is impossible to deny the effects of masks.
Again, the masks were derived from Air Quality, and became a Fashion Statement, and had nothing to do with disease control.
For me, really?
The real wake up call was at the start of the pandemic, people in America acted like washing their hands was some new thing, and could not figure out how to do it right, or when to time it.
That alone, the very idea that people were confused about when and how to wash their hands, was enough to invalidate all other means of PPE and health precautions.
As far as comparing them.. trying to say being required by government regulation to wear a mask having any relation to Wearing a Mask of your own volition for Cultural Fashion, is downright dishonest.
Just to help me understand clear, you think Asian countries wear masks for fashion and not to reduce the spread of diseases? If so, why on earth you believe so?
Of course when there is a market for masks then the market would try to produce a variety of it. But the reason people wear it one was for air pollution correct but not all of cities suffer from air pollution, they also wear for diseases and such.
Masks in Asian nations are like Uggs, where they were originally worn for one reason (Surfers/Air Pollution), and became a fashion statement, They are not, nor have they ever really been, any kind of disease control.
Need Proof? Look at the Culture, masks in those nations are primarily a female fashion trend, as males typically do not wear them indoors, during formal meetings, etc, etc, which totally defeats the whole point of them being a disease control tool to start with.
Also, if you wanted to have a discussion about real disease control, solid plastic face shields are a far, far, superior option, as they not only contain you, they actually protect you from others, which masks do not do.
Now, with that known, let me ask you a question, have you noticed that as far as Mandates go, face shields are often not allowed as an alternate option to a mask, have you ever wondered why the people making the rules want you to directly wear an inferior product like a mask, and not the superior face shield.
That would be like an MMO, requiring you to use a shitty buckler shield to block with, but not allow you to use a Tower Shield to Block with.. like WTF kind of logic is that.
Thankfully I have not played any MMO with that level of faulty logic, but, that does not mean they don't exist.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
FYI: why would I care if you, or anyone else for that matter, ignore me? You don't have to inform me mate. Do as you please. Nobody cares.
That's a good place to be.
Given the choice between the "ma freedoms" crowd (as ignorant as they may be) and the mask wearing crowds that also submit to a social credit system - well, I'm going to throw in with the "ma freedoms" crowd.
I'd rather not have to make that choice, tho. Best to you.
I just named you several examples that are free countries with mask wearing culture. I never said all countries should follow China's example. I said mask culture in Asian countries. You are sticking to a narrative that has nothing to do with that I said.
Fair enough.
Although to be fair to myself when you referenced the "ma freedom" crowd you tipped your hand a little bit. Who would the "ma freedom" crowd, that you slander with a mis-spelling, be exactly?
Would those be the people who don't immediately accept every dictate the government hands down? Asians have a tendency to embrace more of the group/social dynamic than the individualistic west - both sides have serious benefits/problems. You pointed out a slam against the "mah freedoms" crowd, citing culture in Asian countries, I responded with pointing out that culture can have a downside as well.
People who think wearing a mask in closed public places to lower the rate of COVID spread infringes upon their personal freedom.
I cited the mask-wearing Asian culture. Not all Asian culture. You don't have to look very hard to find a lot of fucked upness in all Asian countries.
Also, the same ma-freedom crowd, got beliefs and culture that I do believe in too. For instance, personal responsibility, individuality, nationalism (maybe not all of them), free speech and the right to keep and bear arms.
The thing is, I was born in a country that wasn't free. It was the opposite of free. So I learned to appreciate freedom differently than people who were born free. Obviously, there are things that I don't understand. But I have traveled a lot and learned that freedom has many different aspects, and you can't have it all. World isn't black or white. Or red or blue in this case.
Does the reasonableness of a mandate depend on whether what is mandated actually works for its stated goals? Could they mandate that everyone must wear a purple hat as an anti-COVID measure in order to appease some long-forgotten deity?
What I don't like about the rush to mandate things is that the people who do it tend not to care if it works. If they had started some large-scale studies to determine which particular types of masks work or don't early on on the pandemic, and the mandates were only a placeholder that was openly proclaimed would be changed once the evidence came in, I'd respect that. That would be taking a scientific approach, which is something that few world leaders have any interest in.
Even today, when the evidence on masks is still very weak nearly two years into the pandemic, if they were to mandate and distribute good masks that are likely to be helpful (at minimum, a paper mask that fits well enough to force air to go through it rather than around it), I could respect that. But a mask mandate that is readily satisfied by a simple piece of cloth or a surgical masks with gaping holes on the sides has no basis in science. That's not the sort of thing that anyone would do if COVID prevention were the goal.
The evidence is not weak at all. Dozens of papers published by respectable scientists in respectable journals, with decent studies and large sample sizes, and peer reviewed.
There have been several studies on the effectiveness of each type of mask as well.
I agree that using proper masks properly is very different than just covering your face with something. Under that light, I have to agree with you that wearing masks should be regulated and imposed harder. :P
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
FYI: why would I care if you, or anyone else for that matter, ignore me? You don't have to inform me mate. Do as you please. Nobody cares.
That's a good place to be.
Given the choice between the "ma freedoms" crowd (as ignorant as they may be) and the mask wearing crowds that also submit to a social credit system - well, I'm going to throw in with the "ma freedoms" crowd.
I'd rather not have to make that choice, tho. Best to you.
I just named you several examples that are free countries with mask wearing culture. I never said all countries should follow China's example. I said mask culture in Asian countries. You are sticking to a narrative that has nothing to do with that I said.
Fair enough.
Although to be fair to myself when you referenced the "ma freedom" crowd you tipped your hand a little bit. Who would the "ma freedom" crowd, that you slander with a mis-spelling, be exactly?
Would those be the people who don't immediately accept every dictate the government hands down? Asians have a tendency to embrace more of the group/social dynamic than the individualistic west - both sides have serious benefits/problems. You pointed out a slam against the "mah freedoms" crowd, citing culture in Asian countries, I responded with pointing out that culture can have a downside as well.
People who think wearing a mask in closed public places to lower the rate of COVID spread infringes upon their personal freedom.
I cited the mask-wearing Asian culture. Not all Asian culture. You don't have to look very hard to find a lot of fucked upness in all Asian countries.
Also, the same ma-freedom crowd, got beliefs and culture that I do believe in too. For instance, personal responsibility, individuality, nationalism (maybe not all of them), free speech and the right to keep and bear arms.
The thing is, I was born in a country that wasn't free. It was the opposite of free. So I learned to appreciate freedom differently than people who were born free. Obviously, there are things that I don't understand. But I have traveled a lot and learned that freedom has many different aspects, and you can't have it all. World isn't black or white. Or red or blue in this case.
Does the reasonableness of a mandate depend on whether what is mandated actually works for its stated goals? Could they mandate that everyone must wear a purple hat as an anti-COVID measure in order to appease some long-forgotten deity?
What I don't like about the rush to mandate things is that the people who do it tend not to care if it works. If they had started some large-scale studies to determine which particular types of masks work or don't early on on the pandemic, and the mandates were only a placeholder that was openly proclaimed would be changed once the evidence came in, I'd respect that. That would be taking a scientific approach, which is something that few world leaders have any interest in.
Even today, when the evidence on masks is still very weak nearly two years into the pandemic, if they were to mandate and distribute good masks that are likely to be helpful (at minimum, a paper mask that fits well enough to force air to go through it rather than around it), I could respect that. But a mask mandate that is readily satisfied by a simple piece of cloth or a surgical masks with gaping holes on the sides has no basis in science. That's not the sort of thing that anyone would do if COVID prevention were the goal.
The evidence is not weak at all. Dozens of papers published by respectable scientists in respectable journals, with decent studies and large sample sizes, and peer reviewed.
There have been several studies on the effectiveness of each type of mask as well.
I agree that using proper masks properly is very different than just covering your face with something. Under that light, I have to agree with you that wearing masks should be regulated and imposed harder. :P
There have been a lot of observational studies. The problem is that observational studies are useless here. In order to do a serious study of masks, it absolutely has to be a randomized controlled trial. There have been very few of those done to study the effects of masks on COVID. That's why the evidence is so weak.
As far as science goes, that's a fairly basic thing to claim, but much of the general public misunderstands "science" as being roughly a collection of facts, rather than a method for understanding the universe. If you don't know what I'm talking about when deriding "observational studies", I could lay it out for you. Do you know what the difference between an observational study and a randomized controlled trial is?
There have been several randomised studies of masks' effectiveness against COVID.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
There have been several randomised studies of masks' effectiveness against COVID.
And every single one of them will tell you these two facts.
1) An N95 face mask will not Protect you from any airborne virus. 2) An N95 may at best contain a sick individual, but anything could accomplish that, hell they could use a piece of paper over their mouth, or cover their mouth with their shirt, and that would also work.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Because there is no such thing as owning too many books.
I didn't make it a racial thing. I don't think you are racist, and I don't believe your comments had anything to do with race.
Mentioning North Korea as the second country doesn't really help your case. South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, are a few examples of a mask-wearing culture (way before COVID). Compare your numbers to them.
FYI: why would I care if you, or anyone else for that matter, ignore me? You don't have to inform me mate. Do as you please. Nobody cares.
Ok, to be fair, in some Asian nations, the mask wearing culture derived from bad air quality, and are in every sense of the word, totally optional, if you want to wear a mask because the air smells like soiled mushrooms, you can, if you want sniff that industrial lime and acidic ass smell with zero filter, you can do that as well.
But, in some of those nations, the mask became somewhat a cultural fashion thing because so many people opted, of their own volition, to wear it, and I can respect that kind of organic cultural style developing, rather cool all things said and done.
It's also doubly functional, really, only needing to do half your make-up and not worry about your teeth or breath, is a really attractive selling point, as well as a variety of cool designs, and all that jazz.
However, that has nothing to do with what is going on with current affairs involving face masks.
So please do not try to cross the two, they have nothing in common.
You are correct about air-pollution. But there is also the f'ing influenza. I've been to a lot of places, but always had the worst cases of flu in Asia. Then there was the whole bird-flu and swine-flu and shit-flu. So people realised wearing masks has helped with that, so people wore masks for COVID too.
I am not sure which two you meant that I have crossed. I said I believe masks reduce the COVID spread. Some countries protested that, some didn't, had that from before. You can compare those two types and realise the vast difference of numbers. I am sure there are other factors involved too. But it is impossible to deny the effects of masks.
Again, the masks were derived from Air Quality, and became a Fashion Statement, and had nothing to do with disease control.
For me, really?
The real wake up call was at the start of the pandemic, people in America acted like washing their hands was some new thing, and could not figure out how to do it right, or when to time it.
That alone, the very idea that people were confused about when and how to wash their hands, was enough to invalidate all other means of PPE and health precautions.
As far as comparing them.. trying to say being required by government regulation to wear a mask having any relation to Wearing a Mask of your own volition for Cultural Fashion, is downright dishonest.
Just to help me understand clear, you think Asian countries wear masks for fashion and not to reduce the spread of diseases? If so, why on earth you believe so?
Of course when there is a market for masks then the market would try to produce a variety of it. But the reason people wear it one was for air pollution correct but not all of cities suffer from air pollution, they also wear for diseases and such.
Masks in Asian nations are like Uggs, where they were originally worn for one reason (Surfers/Air Pollution), and became a fashion statement, They are not, nor have they ever really been, any kind of disease control.
Need Proof? Look at the Culture, masks in those nations are primarily a female fashion trend, as males typically do not wear them indoors, during formal meetings, etc, etc, which totally defeats the whole point of them being a disease control tool to start with.
Also, if you wanted to have a discussion about real disease control, solid plastic face shields are a far, far, superior option, as they not only contain you, they actually protect you from others, which masks do not do.
Now, with that known, let me ask you a question, have you noticed that as far as Mandates go, face shields are often not allowed as an alternate option to a mask, have you ever wondered why the people making the rules want you to directly wear an inferior product like a mask, and not the superior face shield.
That would be like an MMO, requiring you to use a shitty buckler shield to block with, but not allow you to use a Tower Shield to Block with.. like WTF kind of logic is that.
Thankfully I have not played any MMO with that level of faulty logic, but, that does not mean they don't exist.
I am sorry mate, you are way wrong about masks in Asia. For the life of me, I have lived and worked and done business in the past twenty years or so in several Asian countries and have seen nor heard anything like you described, neither from no one ever here in Europe.
Face shields are effective against droplets bigger than 5 μm and are completely useless against smaller droplets (airborne or aerosol).
COVID is airborne, WHO admitted that way too late, but it did. And new studies predict it is evolving to become even more airborne (which means more effective transmission).
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Because there is no such thing as owning too many books.
I didn't make it a racial thing. I don't think you are racist, and I don't believe your comments had anything to do with race.
Mentioning North Korea as the second country doesn't really help your case. South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, are a few examples of a mask-wearing culture (way before COVID). Compare your numbers to them.
FYI: why would I care if you, or anyone else for that matter, ignore me? You don't have to inform me mate. Do as you please. Nobody cares.
Ok, to be fair, in some Asian nations, the mask wearing culture derived from bad air quality, and are in every sense of the word, totally optional, if you want to wear a mask because the air smells like soiled mushrooms, you can, if you want sniff that industrial lime and acidic ass smell with zero filter, you can do that as well.
But, in some of those nations, the mask became somewhat a cultural fashion thing because so many people opted, of their own volition, to wear it, and I can respect that kind of organic cultural style developing, rather cool all things said and done.
It's also doubly functional, really, only needing to do half your make-up and not worry about your teeth or breath, is a really attractive selling point, as well as a variety of cool designs, and all that jazz.
However, that has nothing to do with what is going on with current affairs involving face masks.
So please do not try to cross the two, they have nothing in common.
You are correct about air-pollution. But there is also the f'ing influenza. I've been to a lot of places, but always had the worst cases of flu in Asia. Then there was the whole bird-flu and swine-flu and shit-flu. So people realised wearing masks has helped with that, so people wore masks for COVID too.
I am not sure which two you meant that I have crossed. I said I believe masks reduce the COVID spread. Some countries protested that, some didn't, had that from before. You can compare those two types and realise the vast difference of numbers. I am sure there are other factors involved too. But it is impossible to deny the effects of masks.
Again, the masks were derived from Air Quality, and became a Fashion Statement, and had nothing to do with disease control.
For me, really?
The real wake up call was at the start of the pandemic, people in America acted like washing their hands was some new thing, and could not figure out how to do it right, or when to time it.
That alone, the very idea that people were confused about when and how to wash their hands, was enough to invalidate all other means of PPE and health precautions.
As far as comparing them.. trying to say being required by government regulation to wear a mask having any relation to Wearing a Mask of your own volition for Cultural Fashion, is downright dishonest.
Just to help me understand clear, you think Asian countries wear masks for fashion and not to reduce the spread of diseases? If so, why on earth you believe so?
Of course when there is a market for masks then the market would try to produce a variety of it. But the reason people wear it one was for air pollution correct but not all of cities suffer from air pollution, they also wear for diseases and such.
Masks in Asian nations are like Uggs, where they were originally worn for one reason (Surfers/Air Pollution), and became a fashion statement, They are not, nor have they ever really been, any kind of disease control.
Need Proof? Look at the Culture, masks in those nations are primarily a female fashion trend, as males typically do not wear them indoors, during formal meetings, etc, etc, which totally defeats the whole point of them being a disease control tool to start with.
Also, if you wanted to have a discussion about real disease control, solid plastic face shields are a far, far, superior option, as they not only contain you, they actually protect you from others, which masks do not do.
Now, with that known, let me ask you a question, have you noticed that as far as Mandates go, face shields are often not allowed as an alternate option to a mask, have you ever wondered why the people making the rules want you to directly wear an inferior product like a mask, and not the superior face shield.
That would be like an MMO, requiring you to use a shitty buckler shield to block with, but not allow you to use a Tower Shield to Block with.. like WTF kind of logic is that.
Thankfully I have not played any MMO with that level of faulty logic, but, that does not mean they don't exist.
Asians around here in Vancouver British Columbia have been wearing masks in very noticeable numbers since SARS.
I don’t know about Asia itself but we have a massive Asian population here.
Face shields are effective against droplets bigger than 5 μm and are completely useless against smaller droplets (airborne or aerosol).
Sorry mate, but, Face Shields are solid plastic, and thus impermeable.
Hummm.. wonder what you are confusing. Maybe Gaiters?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Face shields are effective against droplets bigger than 5 μm and are completely useless against smaller droplets (airborne or aerosol).
Sorry mate, but, Face Shields are solid plastic, and thus impermeable.
Hummm.. wonder what you are confusing. Maybe Gaiters?
Maybe I don't know what product you are talking about. Does it allow you to breathe unfiltered air? If so, then it is not protecting you from aerosol droplets.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Because there is no such thing as owning too many books.
I didn't make it a racial thing. I don't think you are racist, and I don't believe your comments had anything to do with race.
Mentioning North Korea as the second country doesn't really help your case. South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, are a few examples of a mask-wearing culture (way before COVID). Compare your numbers to them.
FYI: why would I care if you, or anyone else for that matter, ignore me? You don't have to inform me mate. Do as you please. Nobody cares.
Ok, to be fair, in some Asian nations, the mask wearing culture derived from bad air quality, and are in every sense of the word, totally optional, if you want to wear a mask because the air smells like soiled mushrooms, you can, if you want sniff that industrial lime and acidic ass smell with zero filter, you can do that as well.
But, in some of those nations, the mask became somewhat a cultural fashion thing because so many people opted, of their own volition, to wear it, and I can respect that kind of organic cultural style developing, rather cool all things said and done.
It's also doubly functional, really, only needing to do half your make-up and not worry about your teeth or breath, is a really attractive selling point, as well as a variety of cool designs, and all that jazz.
However, that has nothing to do with what is going on with current affairs involving face masks.
So please do not try to cross the two, they have nothing in common.
You are correct about air-pollution. But there is also the f'ing influenza. I've been to a lot of places, but always had the worst cases of flu in Asia. Then there was the whole bird-flu and swine-flu and shit-flu. So people realised wearing masks has helped with that, so people wore masks for COVID too.
I am not sure which two you meant that I have crossed. I said I believe masks reduce the COVID spread. Some countries protested that, some didn't, had that from before. You can compare those two types and realise the vast difference of numbers. I am sure there are other factors involved too. But it is impossible to deny the effects of masks.
Again, the masks were derived from Air Quality, and became a Fashion Statement, and had nothing to do with disease control.
For me, really?
The real wake up call was at the start of the pandemic, people in America acted like washing their hands was some new thing, and could not figure out how to do it right, or when to time it.
That alone, the very idea that people were confused about when and how to wash their hands, was enough to invalidate all other means of PPE and health precautions.
As far as comparing them.. trying to say being required by government regulation to wear a mask having any relation to Wearing a Mask of your own volition for Cultural Fashion, is downright dishonest.
Just to help me understand clear, you think Asian countries wear masks for fashion and not to reduce the spread of diseases? If so, why on earth you believe so?
Of course when there is a market for masks then the market would try to produce a variety of it. But the reason people wear it one was for air pollution correct but not all of cities suffer from air pollution, they also wear for diseases and such.
Masks in Asian nations are like Uggs, where they were originally worn for one reason (Surfers/Air Pollution), and became a fashion statement, They are not, nor have they ever really been, any kind of disease control.
Need Proof? Look at the Culture, masks in those nations are primarily a female fashion trend, as males typically do not wear them indoors, during formal meetings, etc, etc, which totally defeats the whole point of them being a disease control tool to start with.
Also, if you wanted to have a discussion about real disease control, solid plastic face shields are a far, far, superior option, as they not only contain you, they actually protect you from others, which masks do not do.
Now, with that known, let me ask you a question, have you noticed that as far as Mandates go, face shields are often not allowed as an alternate option to a mask, have you ever wondered why the people making the rules want you to directly wear an inferior product like a mask, and not the superior face shield.
That would be like an MMO, requiring you to use a shitty buckler shield to block with, but not allow you to use a Tower Shield to Block with.. like WTF kind of logic is that.
Thankfully I have not played any MMO with that level of faulty logic, but, that does not mean they don't exist.
Asians around here in Vancouver British Columbia have been wearing masks in very noticeable numbers since SARS.
I don’t know about Asia itself but we have a massive Asian population here.
Masks in Asian nations are like Uggs, where they were originally worn for one reason (Surfers/Air Pollution), and became a fashion statement, They are not, nor have they ever really been, any kind of disease control.
Need Proof? Look at the Culture, masks in those nations are primarily a female fashion trend, as males typically do not wear them indoors, during formal meetings, etc, etc, which totally defeats the whole point of them being a disease control tool to start with.
Also, if you wanted to have a discussion about real disease control, solid plastic face shields are a far, far, superior option, as they not only contain you, they actually protect you from others, which masks do not do.
Now, with that known, let me ask you a question, have you noticed that as far as Mandates go, face shields are often not allowed as an alternate option to a mask, have you ever wondered why the people making the rules want you to directly wear an inferior product like a mask, and not the superior face shield.
That would be like an MMO, requiring you to use a shitty buckler shield to block with, but not allow you to use a Tower Shield to Block with.. like WTF kind of logic is that.
Thankfully I have not played any MMO with that level of faulty logic, but, that does not mean they don't exist.
Face shields are nearly useless against COVID, and worse than cloth masks, but for similar reasons. The problem is that face shields can only filter COVID out of air that goes through the face shield. And no air at all goes through the face shield. Air goes around it, and COVID does likewise. Perhaps a face shield could catch a sneeze, but it's not going to do much more than that. And that's mostly not how COVID spreads.
Now, if you were to press that face shield against your mouth and nose enough that you couldn't breathe, then that would be ironclad protection against COVID. Unfortunately, it would also kill you a lot faster than COVID.
There have been several randomised studies of masks' effectiveness against COVID.
And the randomized controlled trials are conspicuously never cited by those pushing mask mandates, as they point to an effect far too small to justify the mandates.
But you didn't answer my question. Do you know the difference between an observational study and a randomized controlled trial?
There have been several randomised studies of masks' effectiveness against COVID.
And every single one of them will tell you these two facts.
1) An N95 face mask will not Protect you from any airborne virus. 2) An N95 may at best contain a sick individual, but anything could accomplish that, hell they could use a piece of paper over their mouth, or cover their mouth with their shirt, and that would also work.
No they don't. A simple search on engines such as scholar.google.com provides you enough reading material suggesting otherwise.
There were some studies that did not find strong differences between N95 and SURGICAL masks (not a piece of paper) effectiveness, but then there are several that did.
The virus is not transmitted through magic. It has a diameter of 80 to 120 nm. Paper filtered masks have been proven to be effective against anything in that size range.
For much smaller particles, you would need activated carbon masks.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
There have been several randomised studies of masks' effectiveness against COVID.
And the randomized controlled trials are conspicuously never cited by those pushing mask mandates, as they point to an effect far too small to justify the mandates.
But you didn't answer my question. Do you know the difference between an observational study and a randomized controlled trial?
I am not well versed in the American politics and who pushes what. I don't deny that politicians have their own agenda. Every threat is an opportunity for them and they are banking on it, but I am talking about the science.
And sorry for not answering you, yes, I do know the difference mate.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
That some of you who are against mask mandates because it is none of the government's business, argued with me before that governments should ban lootboxes!! )))
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
No reason to be a dooms day prepper (gather and horde). The "big plan" is not designed for people to do that, if so the entire world would investigate the "big plan".
The "big plan" is to distribute the wealthy richness of the free world. Organizations are not happy with our money and pride. They will not stop until were a third world country.
It's unclear who these people are, could be the Russians, Chinese or a private organization. That's unclear, its a well hidden. They have trillions to spend on this propaganda war...... Propaganda is the new modern warfare, and it's here now, infact it's hare now and most don't even know it.
Is the world coming to an end ?..... absolutely not, just a downfall of the Western world and parts of the EU.
The pandemic is simply the distraction as all this happens. You will know it's over when the pandemic goes away. They basically stop funding the propaganda.
That some of you who are against mask mandates because it is none of the government's business, argued with me before that governments should ban lootboxes!! )))
That some of you who are against mask mandates because it is none of the government's business, argued with me before that governments should ban lootboxes!! )))
I understand your reasoning but I will argue that in the case of loot boxes, we’re not arguing whether you personally can spend your money that way. We’re arguing whether companies should be allowed to make their money that way.
I don’t know what the percentage is for an individual mask that a person is wearing. But if a mask catches 20%, 40%, 80% of the pathogens and takes them out of the equation, you don’t believe that slows down transmission rates?
Remember we don’t want people dying from heart attacks because they couldn’t get a bed because of COVID.
I don’t know about other countries, but we’re short staffed at the best of times.
edit: remember we are also talking about people exhaling virus.
Quizzical said: And that's mostly not how COVID spreads.
Alright, I might have missed a memo, under the mountin of shit I have been bombarded with about this... so if not from coughing (Hence the 6 feet apart) How does it spread ?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
What I don't like about the rush to mandate things is that the people who do it tend not to care if it works. If they had started some large-scale studies to determine which particular types of masks work or don't early on on the pandemic, and the mandates were only a placeholder that was openly proclaimed would be changed once the evidence came in, I'd respect that. That would be taking a scientific approach, which is something that few world leaders have any interest in.
Even today, when the evidence on masks is still very weak nearly two years into the pandemic, if they were to mandate and distribute good masks that are likely to be helpful (at minimum, a paper mask that fits well enough to force air to go through it rather than around it), I could respect that. But a mask mandate that is readily satisfied by a simple piece of cloth or a surgical masks with gaping holes on the sides has no basis in science. That's not the sort of thing that anyone would do if COVID prevention were the goal.
Of course when there is a market for masks then the market would try to produce a variety of it. But the reason people wear it one was for air pollution correct but not all of cities suffer from air pollution, they also wear for diseases and such.
I don't understand what is your argument regarding that part.
About not trusting your own government. Well. That's more on the government than the people. I get that part. But even the shadiest governments don't lie about everything. It's not like only one government believes masks help.
Need Proof? Look at the Culture, masks in those nations are primarily a female fashion trend, as males typically do not wear them indoors, during formal meetings, etc, etc, which totally defeats the whole point of them being a disease control tool to start with.
Also, if you wanted to have a discussion about real disease control, solid plastic face shields are a far, far, superior option, as they not only contain you, they actually protect you from others, which masks do not do.
Now, with that known, let me ask you a question, have you noticed that as far as Mandates go, face shields are often not allowed as an alternate option to a mask, have you ever wondered why the people making the rules want you to directly wear an inferior product like a mask, and not the superior face shield.
That would be like an MMO, requiring you to use a shitty buckler shield to block with, but not allow you to use a Tower Shield to Block with.. like WTF kind of logic is that.
Thankfully I have not played any MMO with that level of faulty logic, but, that does not mean they don't exist.
There have been several studies on the effectiveness of each type of mask as well.
I agree that using proper masks properly is very different than just covering your face with something. Under that light, I have to agree with you that wearing masks should be regulated and imposed harder. :P
As far as science goes, that's a fairly basic thing to claim, but much of the general public misunderstands "science" as being roughly a collection of facts, rather than a method for understanding the universe. If you don't know what I'm talking about when deriding "observational studies", I could lay it out for you. Do you know what the difference between an observational study and a randomized controlled trial is?
1) An N95 face mask will not Protect you from any airborne virus.
2) An N95 may at best contain a sick individual, but anything could accomplish that, hell they could use a piece of paper over their mouth, or cover their mouth with their shirt, and that would also work.
Face shields are effective against droplets bigger than 5 μm and are completely useless against smaller droplets (airborne or aerosol).
COVID is airborne, WHO admitted that way too late, but it did. And new studies predict it is evolving to become even more airborne (which means more effective transmission).
I don’t know about Asia itself but we have a massive Asian population here.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Hummm.. wonder what you are confusing. Maybe Gaiters?
Now, if you were to press that face shield against your mouth and nose enough that you couldn't breathe, then that would be ironclad protection against COVID. Unfortunately, it would also kill you a lot faster than COVID.
But you didn't answer my question. Do you know the difference between an observational study and a randomized controlled trial?
There were some studies that did not find strong differences between N95 and SURGICAL masks (not a piece of paper) effectiveness, but then there are several that did.
The virus is not transmitted through magic. It has a diameter of 80 to 120 nm. Paper filtered masks have been proven to be effective against anything in that size range.
For much smaller particles, you would need activated carbon masks.
And sorry for not answering you, yes, I do know the difference mate.
That some of you who are against mask mandates because it is none of the government's business, argued with me before that governments should ban lootboxes!!
Imho
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Remember we don’t want people dying from heart attacks because they couldn’t get a bed because of COVID.
I don’t know about other countries, but we’re short staffed at the best of times.
edit: remember we are also talking about people exhaling virus.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
no containment and it would of been over in a month. Catching on yet?
you didn't save anyone. If your unfit your done anyway.
We know we can never contain it. We know that we will probably have to live with it from now on. We know that everyone will eventually get it.
It’s all about managing it.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee