Well one could wish for both. Good graphics and decent AI.
I'm a simple man, I'd settle for decent scripts and quality ass physics.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Well one could wish for both. Good graphics and decent AI.
I'm a simple man, I'd settle for decent scripts and quality ass physics.
Valheim isn't bad then ! Great Physics ! Nothing better than the look on your face the first time you get crushed by the tree you've just cut and which rolled after you down a ledge
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Well one could wish for both. Good graphics and decent AI.
I'm a simple man, I'd settle for decent scripts and quality ass physics.
That's fine, but decent scripts are not AI or the deeper experience that it can bring to a game. Scripts never change unless they redo them. But they're great for people who run their own scripts.
Well one could wish for both. Good graphics and decent AI.
I'm a simple man, I'd settle for decent scripts and quality ass physics.
That's fine, but decent scripts are not AI or the deeper experience that it can bring to a game.
To be fair, thanks to this topic, a smart AI, would not fit into an MMO world full of stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Well one could wish for both. Good graphics and decent AI.
I'm a simple man, I'd settle for decent scripts and quality ass physics.
That's fine, but decent scripts are not AI or the deeper experience that it can bring to a game.
To be fair, thanks to this topic, a smart AI, would not fit into an MMO world full of stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts.
Aren't you one of those players?
When it comes down to it... Aren't we all?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Well one could wish for both. Good graphics and decent AI.
I'm a simple man, I'd settle for decent scripts and quality ass physics.
That's fine, but decent scripts are not AI or the deeper experience that it can bring to a game.
To be fair, thanks to this topic, a smart AI, would not fit into an MMO world full of stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts.
What are you saying.... If so smart, when we go and take a piss, it would take money out of our wallet ?...... Asian games have been doing that for years.
Well one could wish for both. Good graphics and decent AI.
I'm a simple man, I'd settle for decent scripts and quality ass physics.
That's fine, but decent scripts are not AI or the deeper experience that it can bring to a game.
To be fair, thanks to this topic, a smart AI, would not fit into an MMO world full of stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts.
What are you saying.... If so smart, when we go and take a piss, it would take money out of our wallet ?...... Asian games have been doing that for years.
Well it could if you factor in the fact that public urination in most places is against the law, on the flip side there are people who would pay money for golden showers; or they just attend a Brass Against the Machine concert for all of the above. xD
Well one could wish for both. Good graphics and decent AI.
I'm a simple man, I'd settle for decent scripts and quality ass physics.
That's fine, but decent scripts are not AI or the deeper experience that it can bring to a game.
To be fair, thanks to this topic, a smart AI, would not fit into an MMO world full of stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts.
Aren't you one of those players?
When it comes down to it... Aren't we all?
I, who hasn't played an MMO in almost 10 years now, don't want to answer that. lol (There's someone else around here that hasn't played one in around 4 years, IIRC, too.)
What I do want to say is....
A. Lets all try to be more accepting around here, ok? There's different opinions and wants. It wouldn't hurt to even participate positively in someone else's goals. No game company is going to build "their game instead of my game" based on any of this, since they are going to build whatever the hell they believe in.
B. You said: "To be fair, thanks to this topic, a smart AI, would not fit into an MMO world full of stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts."
It's not the players, IMO. It's the game design (each individually). It's pretty hard to play something that isn't in the game. At least not effectively and longer than a short while. But I think you nailed something with that comment. Most of these games, with such fixed content, just can't accept a good AI outside of where they use scripts more effectively. I mean, think about wandering MOBs in the games with huge Power Gaps. Or a 5th Level Character going into a 1-5th Level Dungeon and find that it's become the home for a 40th Level Dragon that wandered in.
Well one could wish for both. Good graphics and decent AI.
I'm a simple man, I'd settle for decent scripts and quality ass physics.
That's fine, but decent scripts are not AI or the deeper experience that it can bring to a game.
To be fair, thanks to this topic, a smart AI, would not fit into an MMO world full of stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts.
Aren't you one of those players?
When it comes down to it... Aren't we all?
I, who hasn't played an MMO in almost 10 years now, don't want to answer that. lol (There's someone else around here that hasn't played one in around 4 years, IIRC, too.)
What I do want to say is....
A. Lets all try to be more accepting around here, ok? There's different opinions and wants. It wouldn't hurt to even participate positively in someone else's goals. No game company is going to build "their game instead of my game" based on any of this, since they are going to build whatever the hell they believe in.
B. You said: "To be fair, thanks to this topic, a smart AI, would not fit into an MMO world full of stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts."
It's not the players, IMO. It's the game design (each individually). It's pretty hard to play something that isn't in the game. At least not effectively and longer than a short while. But I think you nailed something with that comment. Most of these games, with such fixed content, just can't accept a good AI outside of where they use scripts more effectively. I mean, think about wandering MOBs in the games with huge Power Gaps. Or a 5th Level Character going into a 1-5th Level Dungeon and find that it's become the home for a 40th Level Dragon that wandered in.
No.. I was directly reminiscing of the brutal idiocy I endured playing EQ way back when.
It was, downright horrible, beyond words level horrible, where your greatest threat was not the mobs, but the morons playing around you.
Now, could Developers make better AI then what exists.. sure they could.
But again, as I said at the start. we have to limit AI for the same reason why Yellowstone cannot have bear proof dumpsters.
"There is some overlap between the smartest bears and dumbest people"
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Well one could wish for both. Good graphics and decent AI.
I'm a simple man, I'd settle for decent scripts and quality ass physics.
That's fine, but decent scripts are not AI or the deeper experience that it can bring to a game.
To be fair, thanks to this topic, a smart AI, would not fit into an MMO world full of stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts.
Aren't you one of those players?
When it comes down to it... Aren't we all?
I, who hasn't played an MMO in almost 10 years now, don't want to answer that. lol (There's someone else around here that hasn't played one in around 4 years, IIRC, too.)
What I do want to say is....
A. Lets all try to be more accepting around here, ok? There's different opinions and wants. It wouldn't hurt to even participate positively in someone else's goals. No game company is going to build "their game instead of my game" based on any of this, since they are going to build whatever the hell they believe in.
B. You said: "To be fair, thanks to this topic, a smart AI, would not fit into an MMO world full of stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts."
It's not the players, IMO. It's the game design (each individually). It's pretty hard to play something that isn't in the game. At least not effectively and longer than a short while. But I think you nailed something with that comment. Most of these games, with such fixed content, just can't accept a good AI outside of where they use scripts more effectively. I mean, think about wandering MOBs in the games with huge Power Gaps. Or a 5th Level Character going into a 1-5th Level Dungeon and find that it's become the home for a 40th Level Dragon that wandered in.
No.. I was directly reminiscing of the brutal idiocy I endured playing EQ way back when.
It was, downright horrible, beyond words level horrible, where your greatest threat was not the mobs, but the morons playing around you.
Now, could Developers make better AI then what exists.. sure they could.
But again, as I said at the start. we have to limit AI for the same reason why Yellowstone cannot have bear proof dumpsters.
"There is some overlap between the smartest bears and dumbest people"
I laughed at your ending comment, . That's an issue with large crowds. And it's been mentioned earlier. It's a problem, and there needs to be some design features that cause Gamers to spread out.
Loot availability is a big one. If there are so many Players in one location, they should have a harder time gathering loot. Then you need a quick way for Players to move on to another location. And here again, I loved UO's Runestones, used for "Recall" and "Gate" spells to move about. Everybody could use Recall Spells, even if they had very little Magic Skill, if they had some simple Recall Scrolls they bought from character shops. Scrolls allowed Players to use them at a much reduced skill in magic, and with Recall it meant you didn't have to have hardly any magical skill.
Have you ever played Farcry 3,4,5 ? Fighting an outpost, everything spots you and chases you down. Heavy tanks guys with shields are like terminators that don't stop until your dead, snippers that can spot you from a thousand yards that have endless aggro. If your spotted the entire camp is on alert and they search the woods in your direction for 10 minuets...... Dogs are nasty and your as good as finished if they spot you.
Why can't they make lush environment, rocks trees ditches, where you can hide, and what's chasing you may give up or forgets about you. Or the other end of the spectrum where some things never give up until your dead.
Games like the Witcher 3, and Dark Souls had assume bosses with unique fighting styles. How about less clutter and more quality in intelligence.
The games main attraction is the monsters or NPC's. Everything is scary and nothing taken lightly. Unlike everything is easy like knocking down bowling pins and on to the next frame.
Can anyone expand on this idea instead of knocking it down ?.... Be creative, lets have fun,
If you make AI more advance, it would pretty much be a constant PvP game in so many ways.
stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts.
Look at it this way.
A script is a script, just like a movie it doesn’t change. Good AI on the other hand could improvise.
Not really sure about this...
AI is usually scripted. Maybe you can add so many scripts that it would become surprising.
If you are talking about something similar to neural network / machine learning, then it is not really improvising either.
When AI is painting, it does it by digesting a given style and by spitting a "new" production using a different seed. But basically it applies a model.
When AI is winning at Go, it was just trained in way to explore an extraordinary number of possibilities. No improvisation here either.
stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts.
Look at it this way.
A script is a script, just like a movie it doesn’t change. Good AI on the other hand could improvise.
Not really sure about this...
AI is usually scripted. Maybe you can add so many scripts that it would become surprising.
If you are talking about something similar to neural network / machine learning, then it is not really improvising either.
When AI is painting, it does it by digesting a given style and by spitting a "new" production using a different seed. But basically it applies a model.
When AI is winning at Go, it was just trained in way to explore an extraordinary number of possibilities. No improvisation here either.
What would you call this scenario:
Players enter a dungeon room...4 players, one with healing spells...6 MOB Orcs, 1 with stealth skills and invis potions.
3 players attack the 6 Orcs, with the 4th, the healer, standing back to heal as needed. 6 Orcs fight the 3 attacking players.
Orc "leader" sees the healing, and that 2 Orcs died, takes some negatives to his morale rating because of it, which causes this "leader" Orc to roll again... (It's now 4 Orcs vs. all 4 players, in the Orc's mind it's "even odds", so morale is still positive)
This Orc Leader has several options on his AI list. Modified by his new morale rating... 1. All Run 2. Fighting retreat 3. Sound alarm (blow horn or ring the gong) to set off alarm to the next room of Orcs (This would have been preset by the Orcs master through "dungeon AI", if there is no alarm instrument then this roll falls back to #2) 4. Send percent of Orcs (here it would be 1) after the healer (This option would not be reachable in the list if the Orcs were not at "even odds", because the modified morale score wouldn't have enough numbers to reach this level)
If 4, and if it's the Stealth Orc, he will use his Invis potion and stealth. Otherwise an Orc warrior charges the healer.
The healer (player) could alternately be an archer or other stand-back type.
Orc healers and archers and the like all would add their own parts into this AI.
I'd actually build this differently, I'm just trying to show a very simplified version.
Comments
Nothing better than the look on your face the first time you get crushed by the tree you've just cut and which rolled after you down a ledge
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Scripts never change unless they redo them.
But they're great for people who run their own scripts.
Once upon a time....
Once upon a time....
Well it could if you factor in the fact that public urination in most places is against the law, on the flip side there are people who would pay money for golden showers; or they just attend a Brass Against the Machine concert for all of the above. xD
(There's someone else around here that hasn't played one in around 4 years, IIRC, too.)
What I do want to say is....
A. Lets all try to be more accepting around here, ok? There's different opinions and wants. It wouldn't hurt to even participate positively in someone else's goals.
No game company is going to build "their game instead of my game" based on any of this, since they are going to build whatever the hell they believe in.
B. You said:
"To be fair, thanks to this topic, a smart AI, would not fit into an MMO world full of stupid players, so.... maybe it's best we just run scripts."
It's not the players, IMO. It's the game design (each individually). It's pretty hard to play something that isn't in the game. At least not effectively and longer than a short while.
But I think you nailed something with that comment.
Most of these games, with such fixed content, just can't accept a good AI outside of where they use scripts more effectively.
I mean, think about wandering MOBs in the games with huge Power Gaps.
Or a 5th Level Character going into a 1-5th Level Dungeon and find that it's become the home for a 40th Level Dragon that wandered in.
Once upon a time....
It was, downright horrible, beyond words level horrible, where your greatest threat was not the mobs, but the morons playing around you.
Now, could Developers make better AI then what exists.. sure they could.
But again, as I said at the start.
we have to limit AI for the same reason why Yellowstone cannot have bear proof dumpsters.
"There is some overlap between the smartest bears and dumbest people"
A script is a script, just like a movie it doesn’t change. Good AI on the other hand could improvise.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
That's an issue with large crowds. And it's been mentioned earlier. It's a problem, and there needs to be some design features that cause Gamers to spread out.
Loot availability is a big one. If there are so many Players in one location, they should have a harder time gathering loot. Then you need a quick way for Players to move on to another location. And here again, I loved UO's Runestones, used for "Recall" and "Gate" spells to move about.
Everybody could use Recall Spells, even if they had very little Magic Skill, if they had some simple Recall Scrolls they bought from character shops.
Scrolls allowed Players to use them at a much reduced skill in magic, and with Recall it meant you didn't have to have hardly any magical skill.
Once upon a time....
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Players enter a dungeon room...4 players, one with healing spells...6 MOB Orcs, 1 with stealth skills and invis potions.
3 players attack the 6 Orcs, with the 4th, the healer, standing back to heal as needed.
6 Orcs fight the 3 attacking players.
Orc "leader" sees the healing, and that 2 Orcs died, takes some negatives to his morale rating because of it, which causes this "leader" Orc to roll again...
(It's now 4 Orcs vs. all 4 players, in the Orc's mind it's "even odds", so morale is still positive)
This Orc Leader has several options on his AI list. Modified by his new morale rating...
1. All Run
2. Fighting retreat
3. Sound alarm (blow horn or ring the gong) to set off alarm to the next room of Orcs
(This would have been preset by the Orcs master through "dungeon AI", if there is no alarm instrument then this roll falls back to #2)
4. Send percent of Orcs (here it would be 1) after the healer
(This option would not be reachable in the list if the Orcs were not at "even odds", because the modified morale score wouldn't have enough numbers to reach this level)
If 4, and if it's the Stealth Orc, he will use his Invis potion and stealth. Otherwise an Orc warrior charges the healer.
The healer (player) could alternately be an archer or other stand-back type.
Orc healers and archers and the like all would add their own parts into this AI.
I'd actually build this differently, I'm just trying to show a very simplified version.
Once upon a time....