I have to go out for a few hours. could you pleas list the questions and I'll answer all of them very soon.
But funny you talk about me grandstanding..... I was just thinking how most EVERYONE Avoided my original post, and turned the topic into me or something else. evaded the OP
VERY IMPORTANT : The OP was NOT a question it was a statement.... no real need for me to explain
I believe we addressed your post but fine:
It seems that the majority, no infact everyone feels its the NEW GENERATION OF PLAYERS that want what we have now.
Don't make declarative statements like that. It doesn't even make sense that "everyone" is saying this. This is you being hyperbolic.
You think developers are up standing citizens and giving the players what they want. I get it, it's very noble of people to think of the good in people.
- On the other hand you think developers know what their doing AND KNOW WHAT PEOPLE WANT.
I think the truth is that they are doing a job and that job is to try to make games that some people want. If they make a good game they can keep their jobs. Seems like incentive to me.
Two possibilities Here, But one thing for sure you blame the players/new generation, not Developers !!!
This is you standing on a soap box, possibly being a bit paranoid, and thinking that developers are really "evil" and players are really "good." Just a guess.
Developers get away with murder here. They have the populations think EVERYONE ELSE BUT "YOU" ARE LOVING THEIR PRODICT OF SIMPLE EASY.
Again, they're just doing their job. Really murder? Do they wring their hands and tie women to train tracks too?
It's a publicity stunt......I think back around 1990 or so Hollywood made a Superman movie, they advertised is more heavy than any other movie played for weeks on many channels..... They claim "Its the best action move ever"...... How can they claim that ? It's not even released yet !!!!! It flopped and was a humiliating time for Hollywood.
Publicity stunt.......This is mmorpgs make the single person feel wrong verses the majority.
"Publicity" has been happening for longer than you have been alive. There's a reason that "let the buyer beware" is a real thing.
OK, now the point of all of this !!!!
ok let's see
Companies, will make mmorpgs their way regardless of the real population, why.... cost and lack of professionalism.
To put it simply, to make you feel like you stand alone in not liking their product.
This is you not only insulting all the good, hard working people who develop games, but being dismissive of an entire industry. It's also paranoid.
One last thing....If you like the crap we have now, you don't count.....This is for the real mmorpg players.
And my question was why are you pushing this? You've only ever played World of Warcraft for a long period of time and not as a raider. There's nothing "hardcore" or "real mmorpg player" about you!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It's not us on the forums who are to blame, but your general run of the mill sheeple who will gulp anything thrown at them. And, more dangerously, enable corporations to do anything and get away scott free. 70-75$ games on PC? Let's hope that sheeple wake up.
Companies know people will eat dog food and say may I have another.
Fast story: a company I worked for many years ago had a cafeteria. It sucked and every one knew it.
This guy ran around and talked to every one, the plan was to boycott and not eat their o n Friday. Everyone agreed....... Come Friday the line was long, everyone eat their, business as usual..... People will eat dog food.
Maybe they were hungry, had a lot of work to do, didn't want to go out and waste their lunch hour.
Maybe it wasn't really "that bad."
Maybe he really didn't talk to "everyone."
I suspect it's all of that.
Feel free to actually answer any of the questions posed to you as opposed to just grandstanding.
I have to go out for a few hours. could you pleas list the questions and I'll answer all of them very soon.
But funny you talk about me grandstanding..... I was just thinking how most EVERYONE Avoided my original post, and turned the topic into me or something else. evaded the OP
VERY IMPORTANT : The OP was NOT a question it was a statement.... no real need for me to explain
Your statement was addressed. You just don't like how, which isn't atypical but rather par for the course for you as often as not.
This is a discussion forum. If you start a thread on it will possibly lead to discussion. If you don't want that post your statements where you can control who gets to respond. This place isn't it.
And my question was why are you pushing this? You've only ever played World of Warcraft for a long period of time and not as a raider. There's nothing "hardcore" or "real mmorpg player" about you!
Well, all that is needed to be a real MMORPG player is to really play a MMORPG. Delete has climbed that hurdle, such that it is.
Well, all that is needed to be a real MMORPG player is to really play a MMORPG. Delete has climbed that hurdle, such that it is.
Absolutely. But apparently he says that if someone likes the stuff that is currently being released then they don't count as his post is for "real mmorpg players."
Apparently there's more to this mmorpg player thing than meets the eye!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
All my years here I've been at odds with the posters here. I'm sorry, I'm still right.
Thinks most every long time poster here. They are all wrong of course, it's been long accepted (by only myself of course) that I am the only person who actually is right all of the time and on every subject.
I thought perhaps I logged in MoP or something, but no, I'm in the right place.
Realize you are accusing posters here of not being critical enough (since they don't agree with your extreme viewpoints) while more than a few gamers on other forums or subreddits consider MMORPG.com to be a "cesspool of negativity."
Developers, games and other posters opinions are regularly lambasted or vilified but everyone of course does not all agree on which ones or why.
Much of what is said here is based on observation of the gaming landscape today and it seems a pretty safe assumption many gamers enjoy what's available today in terms of designs since they have no problem paying sometimes far more money than I would ever dream of spending.
Despite our impeccable tastes who are we to tell others what they do or do not enjoy playing? They really aren't all marketing brainwashed drones, well no more than everyone else is, just the nature of living in a consumer based economy.
As Madonna once famously sang so very long ago, "You know that we are living in a material world"
Present company excepted of course.
Unfortunately, I have proof ! Why is this Forum almost dead ?
Simple, nothing to talk about.
Hasn't been a major western MMORPG released in the past 8 years or so outside of New World is the biggest reason I'm thinking.
Also much of the conversation has shifted to other mediums, countless subreddits, Discord servers, social media platforms such as Instagram, Twitter etc and of course, Twitch streamers.
Posting in free, gaming related forums is a dying art I'm afraid, some of the larger ones like Eurogamer or PCGamer are flooded with ads and always pushing to get customers to sub for additional services or support.
My son loves to play video games on PC, Playstation and Switch but my guess he almost never posts comments on gaming sites on any medium, he prefers to spend his time just playing games.
I imagine the kids have a pretty good network of friends on their phones that they can chat with about games.....They may go to sites like Reddit to get info, but they dont need sites like this one...also this is too small of a venue for the younger crowd for the most part.....This site was made when MMORPGs were in their prime, but as the genre has died down so has the player count here.
As for who is to blame? I always put it on the players....We are the ones who decide whether to buy or not.....The devs are trying to make money....The days of just creating a game to be fun are pretty much over....Now it is "how can we monetize our game to maximize profits?" As long as the players keep buying, they will keep selling the same stuff....When smart phones became a viable option, it changed everything.....We traded quality for convenience.
All my years here I've been at odds with the posters here. I'm sorry, I'm still right.
Thinks most every long time poster here. They are all wrong of course, it's been long accepted (by only myself of course) that I am the only person who actually is right all of the time and on every subject.
I thought perhaps I logged in MoP or something, but no, I'm in the right place.
Realize you are accusing posters here of not being critical enough (since they don't agree with your extreme viewpoints) while more than a few gamers on other forums or subreddits consider MMORPG.com to be a "cesspool of negativity."
Developers, games and other posters opinions are regularly lambasted or vilified but everyone of course does not all agree on which ones or why.
Much of what is said here is based on observation of the gaming landscape today and it seems a pretty safe assumption many gamers enjoy what's available today in terms of designs since they have no problem paying sometimes far more money than I would ever dream of spending.
Despite our impeccable tastes who are we to tell others what they do or do not enjoy playing? They really aren't all marketing brainwashed drones, well no more than everyone else is, just the nature of living in a consumer based economy.
As Madonna once famously sang so very long ago, "You know that we are living in a material world"
Present company excepted of course.
Unfortunately, I have proof ! Why is this Forum almost dead ?
Simple, nothing to talk about.
Hasn't been a major western MMORPG released in the past 8 years or so outside of New World is the biggest reason I'm thinking.
Also much of the conversation has shifted to other mediums, countless subreddits, Discord servers, social media platforms such as Instagram, Twitter etc and of course, Twitch streamers.
Posting in free, gaming related forums is a dying art I'm afraid, some of the larger ones like Eurogamer or PCGamer are flooded with ads and always pushing to get customers to sub for additional services or support.
My son loves to play video games on PC, Playstation and Switch but my guess he almost never posts comments on gaming sites on any medium, he prefers to spend his time just playing games.
I imagine the kids have a pretty good network of friends on their phones that they can chat with about games.....They may go to sites like Reddit to get info, but they dont need sites like this one...also this is too small of a venue for the younger crowd for the most part.....This site was made when MMORPGs were in their prime, but as the genre has died down so has the player count here.
As for who is to blame? I always put it on the players....We are the ones who decide whether to buy or not.....The devs are trying to make money....The days of just creating a game to be fun are pretty much over....Now it is "how can we monetize our game to maximize profits?" As long as the players keep buying, they will keep selling the same stuff....When smart phones became a viable option, it changed everything.....We traded quality for convenience.
All my years here I've been at odds with the posters here. I'm sorry, I'm still right.
Thinks most every long time poster here. They are all wrong of course, it's been long accepted (by only myself of course) that I am the only person who actually is right all of the time and on every subject.
I thought perhaps I logged in MoP or something, but no, I'm in the right place.
Realize you are accusing posters here of not being critical enough (since they don't agree with your extreme viewpoints) while more than a few gamers on other forums or subreddits consider MMORPG.com to be a "cesspool of negativity."
Developers, games and other posters opinions are regularly lambasted or vilified but everyone of course does not all agree on which ones or why.
Much of what is said here is based on observation of the gaming landscape today and it seems a pretty safe assumption many gamers enjoy what's available today in terms of designs since they have no problem paying sometimes far more money than I would ever dream of spending.
Despite our impeccable tastes who are we to tell others what they do or do not enjoy playing? They really aren't all marketing brainwashed drones, well no more than everyone else is, just the nature of living in a consumer based economy.
As Madonna once famously sang so very long ago, "You know that we are living in a material world"
Present company excepted of course.
Unfortunately, I have proof ! Why is this Forum almost dead ?
Simple, nothing to talk about.
Hasn't been a major western MMORPG released in the past 8 years or so outside of New World is the biggest reason I'm thinking.
Also much of the conversation has shifted to other mediums, countless subreddits, Discord servers, social media platforms such as Instagram, Twitter etc and of course, Twitch streamers.
Posting in free, gaming related forums is a dying art I'm afraid, some of the larger ones like Eurogamer or PCGamer are flooded with ads and always pushing to get customers to sub for additional services or support.
My son loves to play video games on PC, Playstation and Switch but my guess he almost never posts comments on gaming sites on any medium, he prefers to spend his time just playing games.
I imagine the kids have a pretty good network of friends on their phones that they can chat with about games.....They may go to sites like Reddit to get info, but they dont need sites like this one...also this is too small of a venue for the younger crowd for the most part.....This site was made when MMORPGs were in their prime, but as the genre has died down so has the player count here.
As for who is to blame? I always put it on the players....We are the ones who decide whether to buy or not.....The devs are trying to make money....The days of just creating a game to be fun are pretty much over....Now it is "how can we monetize our game to maximize profits?" As long as the players keep buying, they will keep selling the same stuff....When smart phones became a viable option, it changed everything.....We traded quality for convenience.
I would argue they were always trying to maximize profits.
It's just because the amounts used to make these games are so high and that publicly traded companies need to give their investors a good return on investment, that we see all sorts of monetizing shenanigans.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
As for who is to blame? I always put it on the players....We are the ones who decide whether to buy or not.....The devs are trying to make money....The days of just creating a game to be fun are pretty much over....Now it is "how can we monetize our game to maximize profits?" As long as the players keep buying, they will keep selling the same stuff....When smart phones became a viable option, it changed everything.....We traded quality for convenience.
How is the the players fault? They have largely been selective in the games that are purchasing. That is exactly why you dont see very many MMO's being released in the last 8 years. MMO's have been largely flopping left and right.
Its the Devs that are to blame for not making games that are good enough for audiences to purchase. If the Devs were doing their job (IE making good profitable games) for their studios this genre would be thriving and not dieing.
Instead of making solid games based on gameplay, they have resorted to schemes and have largely failed to make that work.
Well, all that is needed to be a real MMORPG player is to really play a MMORPG. Delete has climbed that hurdle, such that it is.
Absolutely. But apparently he says that if someone likes the stuff that is currently being released then they don't count as his post is for "real mmorpg players."
Apparently there's more to this mmorpg player thing than meets the eye!
As for who is to blame? I always put it on the players....We are the ones who decide whether to buy or not.....The devs are trying to make money....The days of just creating a game to be fun are pretty much over....Now it is "how can we monetize our game to maximize profits?" As long as the players keep buying, they will keep selling the same stuff....When smart phones became a viable option, it changed everything.....We traded quality for convenience.
How is the the players fault? They have largely been selective in the games that are purchasing. That is exactly why you dont see very many MMO's being released in the last 8 years. MMO's have been largely flopping left and right.
Its the Devs that are to blame for not making games that are good enough for audiences to purchase. If the Devs were doing their job (IE making good profitable games) for their studios this genre would be thriving and not dieing.
Instead of making solid games based on gameplay, they have resorted to schemes and have largely failed to make that work.
If players were so selective free to play wouldn't be dominant in MMORPG monetization and mobile games wouldn't be anywhere near so profitable as they are.
So, no, players are not selective. The are quite the opposite overall.
As long as players enjoy these games and enjoy gambling on these platforms be it mobile or PC/Console there isn't an argument for change. You cannot fight addiction. The gaming industry has already tapped the gambling vein. It always did this from the days of even Everquest or else why did we spend months camping for an item, that isn't a reason for that except the feeling of euphoria of winning an epic at the end. The difference was we were not emptying our wallets too in the process and we were playing with friends.
The gaming industry just took that and elevated that addiction to built in systems that capitalize on our secret nasty gambling fetish. So when F2P and other forms of monetization from simple loot boxes to multi tier custom coin systems around gambling made their appearance most players embraced it because monthly subs = bad.
So when you talk about players choosing to buy and play and gamble you're not only talking about the game you're forgetting the addiction behind it. This isn't something you can insult and force the industry to change. Players like what they see and no amount of calling them names is going to change the rush they get when they win. Do you really think that all those people spending money on these games are not having fun, are they solely being driven by addiction alone.
One man's meat is another man's poison. Calling these players stupid and having no taste will not not make the type of games you want to play. As long as the gaming industry sees profit in courting them you will never get the AAA game you want. Ah..Ah not going to happen mate.
You can sit here and argue till you're blue in the face delete and accuse us of not bothering to sincerely discuss this but I don't see the point of it. I also think I can play games I enjoy instead of tilting at windmills but that is just me.
I want to key on this alone. Players have no choice if this is all they have to work with, the better stuff that could be improved has been gone 10 years years
They have no choice..... Ill say it again, they have NO CHOICE !!!!! They enjoy crap, they don't know any better
Some one a few post back posted "I have no respect here !" Correct, I have no respect, because no one here CAN COMPREHEND NO CHOICE !!!
You have choices but you don't like them. You can play on P99 but you cannot play there for 'reasons' you claim. You couldn't even get past Kelethin because EQ was too hard for you. Your only real game is WoW which is a joke in terms of difficulty so you don't actually know anything about the older games at all. So for you to say there is no choice is hypocritical at best.
Go play the older games that is the choice you have, choose that and stop trying to claim you know what other players want. You have no monopoly on what others like. You're clueless, just a noisy poster with a loud small violin trying to reign on a small stage that has no audience.
I want to key on this alone. Players have no choice if this is all they have to work with, the better stuff that could be improved has been gone 10 years years
They have no choice..... Ill say it again, they have NO CHOICE !!!!! They enjoy crap, they don't know any better
Some one a few post back posted "I have no respect here !" Correct, I have no respect, because no one here CAN COMPREHEND NO CHOICE !!!
Of course players have a choice.
At the very least they can go do something else. What person in their right mind does an activity that they don't like. And pays for it no less.
However, there are other games out there. they might not be in their heyday but they exist.
Maybe you should try P99 again, join a guild and see if that helps.
People (and you) can play older games.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I want to key on this alone. Players have no choice if this is all they have to work with, the better stuff that could be improved has been gone 10 years years
They have no choice..... Ill say it again, they have NO CHOICE !!!!! They enjoy crap, they don't know any better
Some one a few post back posted "I have no respect here !" Correct, I have no respect, because no one here CAN COMPREHEND NO CHOICE !!!
Of course players have a choice.
At the very least they can go do something else. What person in their right mind does an activity that they don't like. And pays for it no less.
However, there are other games out there. they might not be in their heyday but they exist.
Maybe you should try P99 again, join a guild and see if that helps.
People (and you) can play older games.
Personally I've got about 20 years of good books to catch up on if the day ever comes that I can't find a game to play that I enjoy.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All my years here I've been at odds with the posters here. I'm sorry, I'm still right.
Thinks most every long time poster here. They are all wrong of course, it's been long accepted (by only myself of course) that I am the only person who actually is right all of the time and on every subject.
I thought perhaps I logged in MoP or something, but no, I'm in the right place.
Realize you are accusing posters here of not being critical enough (since they don't agree with your extreme viewpoints) while more than a few gamers on other forums or subreddits consider MMORPG.com to be a "cesspool of negativity."
Developers, games and other posters opinions are regularly lambasted or vilified but everyone of course does not all agree on which ones or why.
Much of what is said here is based on observation of the gaming landscape today and it seems a pretty safe assumption many gamers enjoy what's available today in terms of designs since they have no problem paying sometimes far more money than I would ever dream of spending.
Despite our impeccable tastes who are we to tell others what they do or do not enjoy playing? They really aren't all marketing brainwashed drones, well no more than everyone else is, just the nature of living in a consumer based economy.
As Madonna once famously sang so very long ago, "You know that we are living in a material world"
Present company excepted of course.
Unfortunately, I have proof ! Why is this Forum almost dead ?
Simple, nothing to talk about.
Because much like large scale old school MMORPGs, web forums are a dinosaur on their way to extinction after being supplanted by much more streamlined, multi purpose communication social media systems.
Who's to blame? Everyone. Why? Entertainment goes in cycles. Gaming became insanely popular, so also insanely profitable but sadly MMORPGs as they were, with the exception of one, could never hold a candle to the revenue, or player bases so many other game types had. Not to mention Wow pretty much distilled the MMORPG experience to the bone which made any other copy cat games irrelevant, and any other deviant competitor picayune. There's only so many ways you can present "I kill two orcs in the morning, I kill two orcs at night. I kill two orcs in the afternoon. It makes me feel all right. I kill two orcs in time of peace. And two in time of war. I kill two orcs, before I kill two orcs. And then I kill two more." game play before it becomes redundant.
Its the same reason that Westerns dominated movies and television when I was growing up yet are nearly nonexistent today. People eventually wanted something else.
I want to key on this alone. Players have no choice if this is all they have to work with, the better stuff that could be improved has been gone 10 years years
They have no choice..... Ill say it again, they have NO CHOICE !!!!! They enjoy crap, they don't know any better
Some one a few post back posted "I have no respect here !" Correct, I have no respect, because no one here CAN COMPREHEND NO CHOICE !!!
Players have abundant choice.
There are numerous games currently operating, and many more no longer so but provided on private servers. They range from ancient in MMORPG terms to those barely released.
Fantasy games, science-fiction games, superhero games, horror games and probably some genres covered by games I'm not familiar with. Tab-target, action combat, even turn-based can be found.
Some to most may not like the choices available, but they are not lacking in number or variety. Your contention there is no choice is absolute rubbish!
If your respect is dependent on accepting your frequently bizarre to nonsensical claims as fact then I'll happily do without. I doubt I'm alone in this regard.
I want to key on this alone. Players have no choice if this is all they have to work with, the better stuff that could be improved has been gone 10 years years
They have no choice..... Ill say it again, they have NO CHOICE !!!!! They enjoy crap, they don't know any better
Some one a few post back posted "I have no respect here !" Correct, I have no respect, because no one here CAN COMPREHEND NO CHOICE !!!
Of course players have a choice.
At the very least they can go do something else. What person in their right mind does an activity that they don't like. And pays for it no less.
However, there are other games out there. they might not be in their heyday but they exist.
Maybe you should try P99 again, join a guild and see if that helps.
People (and you) can play older games.
Personally I've got about 20 years of good books to catch up on if the day ever comes that I can't find a game to play that I enjoy.
You know I had never thought of that, quite true. But you do have to watch your time period when it comes to a good book, take science fiction the 70's to 90's are unsurpassed; before that too utopia, after that too dystopia.
I want to key on this alone. Players have no choice if this is all they have to work with, the better stuff that could be improved has been gone 10 years years
They have no choice..... Ill say it again, they have NO CHOICE !!!!! They enjoy crap, they don't know any better
Some one a few post back posted "I have no respect here !" Correct, I have no respect, because no one here CAN COMPREHEND NO CHOICE !!!
Players have abundant choice.
There are numerous games currently operating, and many more no longer so but provided on private servers. They range from ancient in MMORPG terms to those barely released.
Fantasy games, science-fiction games, superhero games, horror games and probably some genres covered by games I'm not familiar with. Tab-target, action combat, even turn-based can be found.
Some to most may not like the choices available, but they are not lacking in number or variety. Your contention there is no choice is absolute rubbish!
If your respect is dependent on accepting your frequently bizarre to nonsensical claims as fact then I'll happily do without. I doubt I'm alone in this regard.
And they all play the same. Level grinding, gear grinding, quests of fixed content, (and these days add CSs). Different skins do not equal "abundant choice" in gaming. It's just different themed looks of the same old monotonous thing.
I want to key on this alone. Players have no choice if this is all they have to work with, the better stuff that could be improved has been gone 10 years years
They have no choice..... Ill say it again, they have NO CHOICE !!!!! They enjoy crap, they don't know any better
Some one a few post back posted "I have no respect here !" Correct, I have no respect, because no one here CAN COMPREHEND NO CHOICE !!!
Players have abundant choice.
There are numerous games currently operating, and many more no longer so but provided on private servers. They range from ancient in MMORPG terms to those barely released.
Fantasy games, science-fiction games, superhero games, horror games and probably some genres covered by games I'm not familiar with. Tab-target, action combat, even turn-based can be found.
Some to most may not like the choices available, but they are not lacking in number or variety. Your contention there is no choice is absolute rubbish!
If your respect is dependent on accepting your frequently bizarre to nonsensical claims as fact then I'll happily do without. I doubt I'm alone in this regard.
And they all play the same. Level grinding, gear grinding, quests of fixed content, (and these days add CSs). Different skins do not equal "abundant choice" in gaming. It's just different themed looks of the same old monotonous thing.
But the earlier games don't really play the same. I would agree that starting from World of Warcraft "onward" you get a lot of "same" because that game was so successful other developers felt that was their "in," their way of making a successful game.
We're seeing some differences with games like New World, adding different elements, Ashes of creation as well.
It's an evolution and sometimes things percolate.
But if people want "different" they are just going to have to go back to the older games. They aren't the same but perhaps they have a more diehard/dedicated group playing them and that's not a bad thing.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I want to key on this alone. Players have no choice if this is all they have to work with, the better stuff that could be improved has been gone 10 years years
They have no choice..... Ill say it again, they have NO CHOICE !!!!! They enjoy crap, they don't know any better
Some one a few post back posted "I have no respect here !" Correct, I have no respect, because no one here CAN COMPREHEND NO CHOICE !!!
Players have abundant choice.
There are numerous games currently operating, and many more no longer so but provided on private servers. They range from ancient in MMORPG terms to those barely released.
Fantasy games, science-fiction games, superhero games, horror games and probably some genres covered by games I'm not familiar with. Tab-target, action combat, even turn-based can be found.
Some to most may not like the choices available, but they are not lacking in number or variety. Your contention there is no choice is absolute rubbish!
If your respect is dependent on accepting your frequently bizarre to nonsensical claims as fact then I'll happily do without. I doubt I'm alone in this regard.
And they all play the same. Level grinding, gear grinding, quests of fixed content, (and these days add CSs). Different skins do not equal "abundant choice" in gaming. It's just different themed looks of the same old monotonous thing.
But if people want "different" they are just going to have to go back to the older games. They aren't the same but perhaps they have a more diehard/dedicated group playing them and that's not a bad thing.
Why is the industry dictating that to gamers?
There's a price to be paid for an industry that's building only for the CSs and the RMTer Whales.
I want to key on this alone. Players have no choice if this is all they have to work with, the better stuff that could be improved has been gone 10 years years
They have no choice..... Ill say it again, they have NO CHOICE !!!!! They enjoy crap, they don't know any better
Some one a few post back posted "I have no respect here !" Correct, I have no respect, because no one here CAN COMPREHEND NO CHOICE !!!
Players have abundant choice.
There are numerous games currently operating, and many more no longer so but provided on private servers. They range from ancient in MMORPG terms to those barely released.
Fantasy games, science-fiction games, superhero games, horror games and probably some genres covered by games I'm not familiar with. Tab-target, action combat, even turn-based can be found.
Some to most may not like the choices available, but they are not lacking in number or variety. Your contention there is no choice is absolute rubbish!
If your respect is dependent on accepting your frequently bizarre to nonsensical claims as fact then I'll happily do without. I doubt I'm alone in this regard.
And they all play the same. Level grinding, gear grinding, quests of fixed content, (and these days add CSs). Different skins do not equal "abundant choice" in gaming. It's just different themed looks of the same old monotonous thing.
But the earlier games don't really play the same. I would agree that starting from World of Warcraft "onward" you get a lot of "same" because that game was so successful other developers felt that was their "in," their way of making a successful game.
We're seeing some differences with games like New World, adding different elements, Ashes of creation as well.
It's an evolution and sometimes things percolate.
But if people want "different" they are just going to have to go back to the older games. They aren't the same but perhaps they have a more diehard/dedicated group playing them and that's not a bad thing.
Well I barely see any difference between MMORPGs. It is grind, grind, grind, stupid quest, grind, grind, grind. Just choose your poison: themepark or sandbox. A touch of PvP or not. Variations such action combat vs tab target or trinity vs non trinity do not make such a difference at the end of the day.
When are we going to see a world alive instead of question marks hovering over static heads?
Well to be fair, Eve Online mostly did it, but nobody dared to improve this to the extent of the NPCs...
There's a price to be paid for an industry that's building only for the CSs and the RMTer Whales.
Unfortunately many of the studios understand there is a price to pay. This is why they wont make any more MMORPG's. Its why the genre in a death spiral.
I hope a studio will come along and make a MMORPG thats worthy of playing. Then all the spineless studios can try to copy it, and eat the few crumbs it leaves behind.
Until then all we can do is watch the turds flush.
There are numerous games currently operating, and many more no longer so but provided on private servers. They range from ancient in MMORPG terms to those barely released.
Fantasy games, science-fiction games, superhero games, horror games and probably some genres covered by games I'm not familiar with. Tab-target, action combat, even turn-based can be found.
Some to most may not like the choices available, but they are not lacking in number or variety. Your contention there is no choice is absolute rubbish!
If your respect is dependent on accepting your frequently bizarre to nonsensical claims as fact then I'll happily do without. I doubt I'm alone in this regard.
If we are talking about games in general - yes. If we are talking about MMORPGs - no. Most MMORPGs copy other games and most are generic mess aiming some nonsensical mass audience, so the real choice is actually very limited. And although there are different kinds of stories as you pointed, there are very few games with good storytelling. Even if we are talking about solo focused MMORPGs - nothing is even close to TW3 or RDR2 quality. If we are talking about balanced MMORPGs - probably only EVE. The hype is AoC will be as good or even better in the fantasy genre, but this is wishful thinking.
I'm talking about MMORPGs, and yes there is abundant choice. That you choose to reject many of the available options doesn't make them non-existent.
Comments
It seems that the majority, no infact everyone feels its the NEW GENERATION OF PLAYERS that want what we have now.
Don't make declarative statements like that. It doesn't even make sense that "everyone" is saying this. This is you being hyperbolic.
You think developers are up standing citizens and giving the players what they want. I get it, it's very noble of people to think of the good in people.
- On the other hand you think developers know what their doing AND KNOW WHAT PEOPLE WANT.
I think the truth is that they are doing a job and that job is to try to make games that some people want. If they make a good game they can keep their jobs. Seems like incentive to me.
Two possibilities Here, But one thing for sure you blame the players/new generation, not Developers !!!
This is you standing on a soap box, possibly being a bit paranoid, and thinking that developers are really "evil" and players are really "good." Just a guess.
Developers get away with murder here. They have the populations think EVERYONE ELSE BUT "YOU" ARE LOVING THEIR PRODICT OF SIMPLE EASY.
Again, they're just doing their job. Really murder? Do they wring their hands and tie women to train tracks too?
It's a publicity stunt......I think back around 1990 or so Hollywood made a Superman movie, they advertised is more heavy than any other movie played for weeks on many channels..... They claim "Its the best action move ever"...... How can they claim that ? It's not even released yet !!!!!
It flopped and was a humiliating time for Hollywood.
Publicity stunt.......This is mmorpgs make the single person feel wrong verses the majority.
"Publicity" has been happening for longer than you have been alive. There's a reason that "let the buyer beware" is a real thing.
OK, now the point of all of this !!!!
ok let's see
Companies, will make mmorpgs their way regardless of the real population, why.... cost and lack of professionalism.
To put it simply, to make you feel like you stand alone in not liking their product.
This is you not only insulting all the good, hard working people who develop games, but being dismissive of an entire industry. It's also paranoid.
One last thing....If you like the crap we have now, you don't count.....This is for the real mmorpg players.
And my question was why are you pushing this? You've only ever played World of Warcraft for a long period of time and not as a raider. There's nothing "hardcore" or "real mmorpg player" about you!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I responded to your original post when I quoted it directly.
Well, all that is needed to be a real MMORPG player is to really play a MMORPG. Delete has climbed that hurdle, such that it is.
Apparently there's more to this mmorpg player thing than meets the eye!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
We are the last.
It's just because the amounts used to make these games are so high and that publicly traded companies need to give their investors a good return on investment, that we see all sorts of monetizing shenanigans.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
How is the the players fault? They have largely been selective in the games that are purchasing. That is exactly why you dont see very many MMO's being released in the last 8 years. MMO's have been largely flopping left and right.
Its the Devs that are to blame for not making games that are good enough for audiences to purchase. If the Devs were doing their job (IE making good profitable games) for their studios this genre would be thriving and not dieing.
Instead of making solid games based on gameplay, they have resorted to schemes and have largely failed to make that work.
Apparently so, in the minds of some beholders!
If players were so selective free to play wouldn't be dominant in MMORPG monetization and mobile games wouldn't be anywhere near so profitable as they are.
So, no, players are not selective. The are quite the opposite overall.
The gaming industry just took that and elevated that addiction to built in systems that capitalize on our secret nasty gambling fetish. So when F2P and other forms of monetization from simple loot boxes to multi tier custom coin systems around gambling made their appearance most players embraced it because monthly subs = bad.
So when you talk about players choosing to buy and play and gamble you're not only talking about the game you're forgetting the addiction behind it. This isn't something you can insult and force the industry to change. Players like what they see and no amount of calling them names is going to change the rush they get when they win. Do you really think that all those people spending money on these games are not having fun, are they solely being driven by addiction alone.
One man's meat is another man's poison. Calling these players stupid and having no taste will not not make the type of games you want to play. As long as the gaming industry sees profit in courting them you will never get the AAA game you want. Ah..Ah not going to happen mate.
You can sit here and argue till you're blue in the face delete and accuse us of not bothering to sincerely discuss this but I don't see the point of it. I also think I can play games I enjoy instead of tilting at windmills but that is just me.
Players have no choice if this is all they have to work with, the better stuff that could be improved has been gone 10 years years
They have no choice..... Ill say it again, they have NO CHOICE !!!!!
They enjoy crap, they don't know any better
Some one a few post back posted "I have no respect here !"
Correct, I have no respect, because no one here CAN COMPREHEND NO CHOICE !!!
Go play the older games that is the choice you have, choose that and stop trying to claim you know what other players want. You have no monopoly on what others like. You're clueless, just a noisy poster with a loud small violin trying to reign on a small stage that has no audience.
At the very least they can go do something else. What person in their right mind does an activity that they don't like. And pays for it no less.
However, there are other games out there. they might not be in their heyday but they exist.
Maybe you should try P99 again, join a guild and see if that helps.
People (and you) can play older games.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Players have abundant choice.
There are numerous games currently operating, and many more no longer so but provided on private servers. They range from ancient in MMORPG terms to those barely released.
Fantasy games, science-fiction games, superhero games, horror games and probably some genres covered by games I'm not familiar with. Tab-target, action combat, even turn-based can be found.
Some to most may not like the choices available, but they are not lacking in number or variety. Your contention there is no choice is absolute rubbish!
If your respect is dependent on accepting your frequently bizarre to nonsensical claims as fact then I'll happily do without. I doubt I'm alone in this regard.
Level grinding, gear grinding, quests of fixed content, (and these days add CSs).
Different skins do not equal "abundant choice" in gaming.
It's just different themed looks of the same old monotonous thing.
Once upon a time....
We're seeing some differences with games like New World, adding different elements, Ashes of creation as well.
It's an evolution and sometimes things percolate.
But if people want "different" they are just going to have to go back to the older games. They aren't the same but perhaps they have a more diehard/dedicated group playing them and that's not a bad thing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
There's a price to be paid for an industry that's building only for the CSs and the RMTer Whales.
Once upon a time....
Well I barely see any difference between MMORPGs. It is grind, grind, grind, stupid quest, grind, grind, grind. Just choose your poison: themepark or sandbox. A touch of PvP or not. Variations such action combat vs tab target or trinity vs non trinity do not make such a difference at the end of the day.
When are we going to see a world alive instead of question marks hovering over static heads?
Well to be fair, Eve Online mostly did it, but nobody dared to improve this to the extent of the NPCs...
Unfortunately many of the studios understand there is a price to pay. This is why they wont make any more MMORPG's. Its why the genre in a death spiral.
I hope a studio will come along and make a MMORPG thats worthy of playing. Then all the spineless studios can try to copy it, and eat the few crumbs it leaves behind.
Until then all we can do is watch the turds flush.