And they all play the same. Level grinding, gear grinding, quests of fixed content, (and these days add CSs). Different skins do not equal "abundant choice" in gaming. It's just different themed looks of the same old monotonous thing.
But if people want "different" they are just going to have to go back to the older games. They aren't the same but perhaps they have a more diehard/dedicated group playing them and that's not a bad thing.
Well I barely see any difference between MMORPGs. It is grind, grind, grind, stupid quest, grind, grind, grind. Just choose your poison: themepark or sandbox. A touch of PvP or not. Variations such action combat vs tab target or trinity vs non trinity do not make such a difference at the end of the day.
When are we going to see a world alive instead of question marks hovering over static heads?
Well to be fair, Eve Online mostly did it, but nobody dared to improve this to the extent of the NPCs...
If their differences don't count as differentiation, then they are of course the same. But they do, so they aren't.
Well I barely see any difference between MMORPGs. It is grind, grind, grind, stupid quest, grind, grind, grind. Just choose your poison: themepark or sandbox. A touch of PvP or not. Variations such action combat vs tab target or trinity vs non trinity do not make such a difference at the end of the day.
When are we going to see a world alive instead of question marks hovering over static heads?
Well to be fair, Eve Online mostly did it, but nobody dared to improve this to the extent of the NPCs...
If their differences don't count as differentiation, then they are of course the same. But they do, so they aren't.
If you keep repeating it, people will start to believe it.
If you keep repeating it, people will start to believe it.
Heh, unlikely. But you never know.
If even one person becomes more open to possibilities and finds something enjoyable as a result it is worth trying to encourage.
Well, that's "sort of fine" for those people. But the problem is that MMORPGs, as a "massively multiplayer" game, are falling well short of the mark by NOT creating a "World to Live In" experience.
This is hurting both sides, the genre/industry and the players.
But the earlier games don't really play the same. I would agree that starting from World of Warcraft "onward" you get a lot of "same" because that game was so successful other developers felt that was their "in," their way of making a successful game.
We're seeing some differences with games like New World, adding different elements, Ashes of creation as well.
It's an evolution and sometimes things percolate.
But if people want "different" they are just going to have to go back to the older games. They aren't the same but perhaps they have a more diehard/dedicated group playing them and that's not a bad thing.
The early games were new, the developers were unexperienced, most of the software tools they have now did not exist, and the games had big pros and cons. But almost every game till WoW was step ahead as gameplay. WoW made one significant change - the marketing got in charge. Then the genre simply sopped to evolve. WoW is mediocre game, in fact even bad if we count MMORPG as balanced system between solo RPG and MMO experience. But WoW had amazing marketing. The first really global MMO game. Then most developers started to copy WoW, not just in design, but also in marketing. They started to follow the rule - marketing first. And that was the end of the genre as something new and evolving. As since then the games look better, because the tools become better, but the gameplay - rules and storytelling - nothing really evolved. Modern MMORPGs are not very different, except the look, from WoW - a game made 20 years ago. It is like if the literature was stopped to evolve with The Bible, or the movies with Gone with the Wind.
I think Marketing got heavily involved in EQ. I remember during production that they said, first, that the game was being based on a D&D game play. Some gamers objected that D&D level advancement hurt the ideal of a World. Then the Devs of EQ came out and said that they were going to make the level power gaps much larger than D%D because Marketing felt that Gamers would get more excited about each level, and thus create more retention. There was a big huff and puff at the time, but most Gamers didn't care (because they couldn't see how it turned it into a small group based game instead of a World).
That's the issue. eventually Gamers realize that that's the case, and start to go back to the dream of playing in a World. Thus being unhappy with the outcome (to various degrees).
The problem today (and this was always going to happen) is that "various degrees" has become weighted more and more towards the unhappy side.
I'll go out on a limb and say a large percentage of humans, or even of game players in general do not see living in a virtual world as a significant pillar for their gameplay.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'll go out on a limb and say a large percentage of humans, or even of game players in general do not see living in a virtual world as a significant pillar for their gameplay.
Prove me wrong.
That has nothing to do with basic ethics and respect to players lol
When people are "allowed" to exploit a game, twithout any consequences. that is a deep lack of respect for players. When treating game accounts like some stock option that is just bad ethics.
People aren't living in games, THEY JUST WANT SOME GOD DAMN RESPECT AND COMMON SENSE DIGNITY FOR THE MONEY THEY PAY!!!!
There are numerous games currently operating, and many more no longer so but provided on private servers. They range from ancient in MMORPG terms to those barely released.
Fantasy games, science-fiction games, superhero games, horror games and probably some genres covered by games I'm not familiar with. Tab-target, action combat, even turn-based can be found.
Some to most may not like the choices available, but they are not lacking in number or variety. Your contention there is no choice is absolute rubbish!
If your respect is dependent on accepting your frequently bizarre to nonsensical claims as fact then I'll happily do without. I doubt I'm alone in this regard.
If we are talking about games in general - yes. If we are talking about MMORPGs - no. Most MMORPGs copy other games and most are generic mess aiming some nonsensical mass audience, so the real choice is actually very limited. And although there are different kinds of stories as you pointed, there are very few games with good storytelling. Even if we are talking about solo focused MMORPGs - nothing is even close to TW3 or RDR2 quality. If we are talking about balanced MMORPGs - probably only EVE. The hype is AoC will be as good or even better in the fantasy genre, but this is wishful thinking.
I'm talking about MMORPGs, and yes there is abundant choice. That you choose to reject many of the available options doesn't make them non-existent.
Their NOT any choices, even the classics are watered down.
I can tell from many of your post, you like this CRAP we have now, without directly saying it
There's a price to be paid for an industry that's building only for the CSs and the RMTer Whales.
Unfortunately many of the studios understand there is a price to pay. This is why they wont make any more MMORPG's. Its why the genre in a death spiral.
I hope a studio will come along and make a MMORPG thats worthy of playing. Then all the spineless studios can try to copy it, and eat the few crumbs it leaves behind.
Until then all we can do is watch the turds flush.
I'll go out on a limb and say a large percentage of humans, or even of game players in general do not see living in a virtual world as a significant pillar for their gameplay.
Prove me wrong.
A lot of people have pointed out time and time again that MMORPGs are very expensive to make. If they do not appeal to the people that will pay them by whaling or participating in the increase of positive behaviour in their book that increases the game companies' revenue, you are irrelevant.
Face it. Those of us that began playing MMORPGs like me in 1999 with Everquest and many here from UO and AC are no longer the target the developers of big triple A games' development aims to please.
Games are being made from the ground up with monetization being the fundamental cornerstone of development. It's profitable , it's pervasive and it is not going away any time soon. I am basing this on the hand over fist revenues they are raking in with mobile 'MMORPGs'. Yeah that is a thing.
Players have learned to cope and accept lesser games and found enjoyment in them. Sold out perhaps but seriously we are simply gamers in the end and we want to play games and I don't actually want to spend my time debating my steadfastness in denying these developers their cake because they don't need me. I'm not interested in any online campaign because at the end of the day none of the really big companies have any plans for the types of games you're all drooling over in your imagination.
We are not going to make a dent banding together and quite frankly I am tired of this topic already. I would rather spend my time playing games and deciding whether they tick enough boxes for me personally to settle for playing. Yes I said 'settle' .. get over it.
I'll go out on a limb and say a large percentage of humans, or even of game players in general do not see living in a virtual world as a significant pillar for their gameplay.
Prove me wrong.
That has nothing to do with basic ethics and respect to players lol
When people are "allowed" to exploit a game, twithout any consequences. that is a deep lack of respect for players. When treating game accounts like some stock option that is just bad ethics.
People aren't living in games, THEY JUST WANT SOME GOD DAMN RESPECT AND COMMON SENSE DIGNITY FOR THE MONEY THEY PAY!!!!
People do not see themselves living in a virtual world, they only want the hybrid of augmented reality which is a more obvious progression from where we are now. But the Metaverse may change that, my concern there though is that it will prove to be such a damp squib that it will negatively impact the desire for a virtual world.
We have been taken for a ride, we are currently on a cash shop carousel which will never stop turning and only spins faster and faster, we never seem to know when we need to get off.
There are numerous games currently operating, and many more no longer so but provided on private servers. They range from ancient in MMORPG terms to those barely released.
Fantasy games, science-fiction games, superhero games, horror games and probably some genres covered by games I'm not familiar with. Tab-target, action combat, even turn-based can be found.
Some to most may not like the choices available, but they are not lacking in number or variety. Your contention there is no choice is absolute rubbish!
If your respect is dependent on accepting your frequently bizarre to nonsensical claims as fact then I'll happily do without. I doubt I'm alone in this regard.
If we are talking about games in general - yes. If we are talking about MMORPGs - no. Most MMORPGs copy other games and most are generic mess aiming some nonsensical mass audience, so the real choice is actually very limited. And although there are different kinds of stories as you pointed, there are very few games with good storytelling. Even if we are talking about solo focused MMORPGs - nothing is even close to TW3 or RDR2 quality. If we are talking about balanced MMORPGs - probably only EVE. The hype is AoC will be as good or even better in the fantasy genre, but this is wishful thinking.
I'm talking about MMORPGs, and yes there is abundant choice. That you choose to reject many of the available options doesn't make them non-existent.
Their NOT any choices, even the classics are watered down.
I can tell from many of your post, you like this CRAP we have now, without directly saying it
Aren't you playing on the Turtle WoW private server? Talk about settling, why don't you look in the mirror .
There are numerous games currently operating, and many more no longer so but provided on private servers. They range from ancient in MMORPG terms to those barely released.
Fantasy games, science-fiction games, superhero games, horror games and probably some genres covered by games I'm not familiar with. Tab-target, action combat, even turn-based can be found.
Some to most may not like the choices available, but they are not lacking in number or variety. Your contention there is no choice is absolute rubbish!
If your respect is dependent on accepting your frequently bizarre to nonsensical claims as fact then I'll happily do without. I doubt I'm alone in this regard.
If we are talking about games in general - yes. If we are talking about MMORPGs - no. Most MMORPGs copy other games and most are generic mess aiming some nonsensical mass audience, so the real choice is actually very limited. And although there are different kinds of stories as you pointed, there are very few games with good storytelling. Even if we are talking about solo focused MMORPGs - nothing is even close to TW3 or RDR2 quality. If we are talking about balanced MMORPGs - probably only EVE. The hype is AoC will be as good or even better in the fantasy genre, but this is wishful thinking.
I'm talking about MMORPGs, and yes there is abundant choice. That you choose to reject many of the available options doesn't make them non-existent.
Their NOT any choices, even the classics are watered down.
I can tell from many of your post, you like this CRAP we have now, without directly saying it
Aren't you playing on the Turtle WoW private server? Talk about settling, why don't you look in the mirror .
By the way I love Turtle WoW It's still vanilla with some nice changes such as Treasure hunting and survival, and they added a few races and created their own zones for them !
Best of all its packed solid with players..... Why is it packed ?... Everything else is crap.
I'll go out on a limb and say a large percentage of humans, or even of game players in general do not see living in a virtual world as a significant pillar for their gameplay.
Prove me wrong.
They will. Facebook is now META after all. Eventually these tech companies will spend their trillions of dollars selling the general population on the idea that virtual is THE place to live.
Wouldn't be surprised if AI like ChatGPT (along with robots) accelerates the push for "Universal basic income" where most people get paid to stay home. Then we/they will have little to do but live in the ultimate online virtual world.
Wall-E is the future.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'll go out on a limb and say a large percentage of humans, or even of game players in general do not see living in a virtual world as a significant pillar for their gameplay.
Prove me wrong.
They will. Facebook is now META after all. Eventually these tech companies will spend their trillions of dollars selling the general population on the idea that virtual is THE place to live.
Wouldn't be surprised if AI like ChatGPT (along with robots) accelerates the push for "Universal basic income" where most people get paid to stay home. Then we/they will have little to do but live in the ultimate online virtual world.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'll go out on a limb and say a large percentage of humans, or even of game players in general do not see living in a virtual world as a significant pillar for their gameplay.
Prove me wrong.
Prove you right.
As far as you being wrong, can I point to the years-long slowing down of the entire genre as a possibility?
I'm surprise crowfall died. And another game I played a while back seemed dead too.
I think without backing it's hard to develop mmorpg. There isn't many example of small studio or kickstarter mmorpg become successful. Eve is one of the few mmorpg that can start small and grow.
The thing to me is even Blizzard and CCP pull the plug on making new mmorpg. And those 2 make the most successful themepark and sandpark game. The future don't seem blight for western made mmorpg.
There are still many asian mmorpg. And they seemed to have large backing on asian player base. Most are pay 2 win which make it quite depressing.
I think even in the mobile space, there isn't much western mmorpg. Most is dominate by asian mmorpg. I can't think of a western mobile mmorpg on top of my head. I think Albion online is the only one I know and that is cross plateform.
I'll go out on a limb and say a large percentage of humans, or even of game players in general do not see living in a virtual world as a significant pillar for their gameplay.
Prove me wrong.
They will. Facebook is now META after all. Eventually these tech companies will spend their trillions of dollars selling the general population on the idea that virtual is THE place to live.
Wouldn't be surprised if AI like ChatGPT (along with robots) accelerates the push for "Universal basic income" where most people get paid to stay home. Then we/they will have little to do but live in the ultimate online virtual world.
Wall-E is the future.
fat people in floating chairs or everything is robots future ? I do need a new chair ;D
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There's also a trending happening with most of us. could we all becoming jaded at the same time ?
When I play witcher 3 , I don't feel jaded, but if I think about mmos, my lip snarl and my nose begins twitch....
Not at the same time, no. What invariably happens is that every year there's a growing number of the unhappy. It takes time for new players to grow jaded, but it stacks up year after year and eventually outweighs those who aren't there yet.
This forum is small. But the numbers who are leaving the MMORPG genre behind is evident.
Face it. Those of us that began playing MMORPGs like me in 1999 with Everquest and many here from UO and AC are no longer the target the developers of big triple A games' development aims to please.
Games are being made from the ground up with monetization being the fundamental cornerstone of development. It's profitable , it's pervasive and it is not going away any time soon. I am basing this on the hand over fist revenues they are raking in with mobile 'MMORPGs'. Yeah that is a thing.
You can sit here and deny there is a problem all day. Its not just people from 1999 that are having issue with newly released MMO's.
Diablo Immortal has a .3 user rating. 99% voted as negative. So either oldtimers from 1999 represent 99% of the gamers which is a supermajority or more than just oldtimers are unhappy.
If you are in the 1% that is happy, thats good for you. Trying to deny that a large part of the gamer community is unhappy with current MMO's is futile.
Show me where recently released MMO's are overwhelmingly positive?
If I go on steam I can find many games from different genres that are overwhelming positive. I dont see MMO's stacking up.
Comments
They don't actually.
That depends what you mean by older.
If their differences don't count as differentiation, then they are of course the same. But they do, so they aren't.
Once upon a time....
If even one person becomes more open to possibilities and finds something enjoyable as a result it is worth trying to encourage.
This is hurting both sides, the genre/industry and the players.
Once upon a time....
Then the Devs of EQ came out and said that they were going to make the level power gaps much larger than D%D because Marketing felt that Gamers would get more excited about each level, and thus create more retention. There was a big huff and puff at the time, but most Gamers didn't care (because they couldn't see how it turned it into a small group based game instead of a World).
That's the issue. eventually Gamers realize that that's the case, and start to go back to the dream of playing in a World. Thus being unhappy with the outcome (to various degrees).
The problem today (and this was always going to happen) is that "various degrees" has become weighted more and more towards the unhappy side.
Once upon a time....
Prove me wrong.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I can tell from many of your post, you like this CRAP we have now, without directly saying it
Face it. Those of us that began playing MMORPGs like me in 1999 with Everquest and many here from UO and AC are no longer the target the developers of big triple A games' development aims to please.
Games are being made from the ground up with monetization being the fundamental cornerstone of development. It's profitable , it's pervasive and it is not going away any time soon. I am basing this on the hand over fist revenues they are raking in with mobile 'MMORPGs'. Yeah that is a thing.
Players have learned to cope and accept lesser games and found enjoyment in them. Sold out perhaps but seriously we are simply gamers in the end and we want to play games and I don't actually want to spend my time debating my steadfastness in denying these developers their cake because they don't need me. I'm not interested in any online campaign because at the end of the day none of the really big companies have any plans for the types of games you're all drooling over in your imagination.
We are not going to make a dent banding together and quite frankly I am tired of this topic already. I would rather spend my time playing games and deciding whether they tick enough boxes for me personally to settle for playing. Yes I said 'settle' .. get over it.
We have been taken for a ride, we are currently on a cash shop carousel which will never stop turning and only spins faster and faster, we never seem to know when we need to get off.
It's still vanilla with some nice changes such as Treasure hunting and survival, and they added a few races and created their own zones for them !
Best of all its packed solid with players..... Why is it packed ?... Everything else is crap.
I'm excited even thinking about it.
Its free, no tricks you should play
Wouldn't be surprised if AI like ChatGPT (along with robots) accelerates the push for "Universal basic income" where most people get paid to stay home. Then we/they will have little to do but live in the ultimate online virtual world.
Wall-E is the future.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As far as you being wrong, can I point to the years-long slowing down of the entire genre as a possibility?
Once upon a time....
I think without backing it's hard to develop mmorpg. There isn't many example of small studio or kickstarter mmorpg become successful. Eve is one of the few mmorpg that can start small and grow.
The thing to me is even Blizzard and CCP pull the plug on making new mmorpg. And those 2 make the most successful themepark and sandpark game. The future don't seem blight for western made mmorpg.
There are still many asian mmorpg. And they seemed to have large backing on asian player base. Most are pay 2 win which make it quite depressing.
I think even in the mobile space, there isn't much western mmorpg. Most is dominate by asian mmorpg. I can't think of a western mobile mmorpg on top of my head. I think Albion online is the only one I know and that is cross plateform.
fat people in floating chairs or everything is robots future ? I do need a new chair ;D
Apathy and indifference often drive my wry or sardonic forum posts these days.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Trending? Becoming? This has been the prevailing attitude for a long time now, on gaming forums at any rate.
What invariably happens is that every year there's a growing number of the unhappy. It takes time for new players to grow jaded, but it stacks up year after year and eventually outweighs those who aren't there yet.
This forum is small. But the numbers who are leaving the MMORPG genre behind is evident.
Once upon a time....
You can sit here and deny there is a problem all day. Its not just people from 1999 that are having issue with newly released MMO's.
Diablo Immortal has a .3 user rating. 99% voted as negative. So either oldtimers from 1999 represent 99% of the gamers which is a supermajority or more than just oldtimers are unhappy.
If you are in the 1% that is happy, thats good for you. Trying to deny that a large part of the gamer community is unhappy with current MMO's is futile.
Show me where recently released MMO's are overwhelmingly positive?
If I go on steam I can find many games from different genres that are overwhelming positive. I dont see MMO's stacking up.