Sure F2P and P2W is part of the problem, gaming faces many issues that have got us to this stage. But when it moved into the position of being the biggest grossing form of entertainment, bigger than films or TV that was when the floodgates of titles were bound to come. Gaming became a gold rush for the business community.
Getting us to spend more money is the goal, and if cranking out games constantly is what it takes, then that is what these companies will do...Like others have said, the consumers are spending money more than ever on games....Part of the problem is that most of the mobile games are crap and they can be made quick and cheap.... Games like Candy Crush have hundreds of clones.....also games on the tablet have become so much just watching ads...they arent really even games anymore...sure you can play for an hour, or you can watch an ad and get a reward greater than playing for that hour....you decide.
I really dislike free to play past a short trial. If you don’t like a game enough to pay for it, then get out
You know what one of my major issues is with 7D2D is?
Because of the never ending Alpha status (10 yrs now) the only money they make is from selling copies of the game to new users, often at huge discounts of under $5.
This really doesn't give them enough revenue to substantially improve the game, create DLC packs or proper sequels.
I literally can't spend more money unless I want to buy more copies for friends (I already have 2 for myself) or want to buy some of their merch in the store.
Apparently paying developers more money for quality new content is an unpopular position.
When I made similar complaint on the 7D2D subReddit I was largely down voted. Apparently most gamers prefer to just play games for cheap or free.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When I made similar complaint on the 7D2D subReddit I was largely down voted. Apparently most gamers prefer to just play games for cheap or free.
I think a successful game must have developers willing to tell 90% of the community to go take a hike, or forever spend time scraping the bottom of the barrel.
One thing Star Citizen is doing well is insisting on a premium product with no hesitation to charge premium prices.
I wouldn’t want customers who think that $.25 an hour for entertainment is too high of a price to pay. Screw those chiselers.
When I made similar complaint on the 7D2D subReddit I was largely down voted. Apparently most gamers prefer to just play games for cheap or free.
I think a successful game must have developers willing to tell 90% of the community to go take a hike, or forever spend time scraping the bottom of the barrel.
One thing Star Citizen is doing well is insisting on a premium product with no hesitation to charge premium prices.
I wouldn’t want customers who think that $.25 an hour for entertainment is too high of a price to pay. Screw those chiselers.
Star Citizen is charging a premium price, certainly. Whether they deliver a premium product remains to be seen.
I had a good read through the OP's linked article and I gotta say, not a great article. Benoit claims there are too many games, but then fails to elaborate on why it's a problem, he mostly just talks about why there are so many games specifically in 2023/24 (covid investment).
Reading between the lines, it seemed to me that he was mostly complaining about how to advertise your game in the modern world.
I can understand that point of view, though I don't have any sympathy.
He talks about how many games release every day......but 99% of them are garbage. Making your game stand out from the trash should not be difficult for a mid-tier publisher. If they are finding it difficult, they need a new marketing team, or they need to stop funding trash games.
Like others in this thread, I don't buy many games. Not because I don't want to, but because I can't find games worth buying. Is that an advertising problem? No, I definitely research a lot of games. I look at their store pages, read their descriptions, often visit their official websites. But, they either look like outright garbage, or extremely derivative, and so I don't buy them. The advertising works: I'm seeing the games. It's the design that is failing me.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
I'm looking around for a new game at the moment (thanks xmas steam vouchers!) and I noticed that some porn games have made it into steam's top sellers!
It seems Steam's new privacy setting is working as intended :P
Good luck Benoit, trying to make ur games stand out from both trash and porn!
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
It's certainly a different landscape, but from a player's perspective I wouldn't complain that there are 'too many games'.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
It's certainly a different landscape, but from a player's perspective I wouldn't complain that there are 'too many games'.
On the surface I'd agree, except games get announced, release and close by the hundreds that I literally have never heard of, even in the MMO space.
Often it's because of information overload, it's not that it isn't out there I just don't have time to process it all.
Ever talk to a friend about the most wonderful movie or TV series you just finished watching only to have them blank stare you and say they've never seen it?
Here's one for you all, Faces of Mankind, Apple TV, just heard of it in its fourth season despite having an Apple TV sub for well over a year. Too much choice on TV I tell you.
It's a lot that like that, it's possible the company in the article has some games that I would really enjoy, but likely I'll never know it.
Even though I've had a good time the last 7 months playing 7D2D my own internal FOMO can't help but wonder what else I might have enjoyed, perhaps even more had I only taken a different path.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's a lot that like that, it's possible the company in the article has some games that I would really enjoy, but likely I'll never know it.
Even though I've had a good time the last 7 months playing 7D2D my own internal FOMO can't help but wonder what else I might have enjoyed, perhaps even more had I only taken a different path.
Yeah this just doesnt happen to me. I have a full steam library of games 1 person here or there recommended that are just junk.
I cant think of a single time I stumbled onto a game that was good that has been released more than 1 year.
I guess my feed or people I trust inform me enough to let me know of good title releases either before they release or shortly thereafter.
Theoretically their might be a diamond out there I have yet to find that is lost in obscurity, but I am getting sick of trying to wade through the mountains of trash to find it. More often or not its just people giving bad recommendations because they are so ill informed.
I love the "This is the best RTS game ever" recommendation. Then ask them how many RTS games they played. Answer: Just this one.
There is so much garbage out there, people are now using the garbage as the baseline to measure other garbage. Compared to XXXX game this is a 10.
Perhaps the real problem is that customers are too free with thier money and will buy all the trash in hopes of just getting 1 hit. They are addicts with big dreams of the next good game. (I admit I fall in this crowd)
If there was less spending maybe more devs would build better games in order to compete for the limited funds.
When you can release a full garbage game and still make bank, why put effort in.
This subject (how to market / find new games) has been churning in my head a lot the last 24 hrs.
I think the old saying "you can't sell gameplay" is really quite true.
Mid-tier and indie developers simply can't compete on graphics. It doesnt matter how talented your artists and modellers are, it simply takes too long to make everything in your game look good. Most estimates I've seen show 80-90% of AAA budget is spent on graphics.
So, if you're not a AAA studio, then you're mainly competing on gameplay. If you have talented designers and developers, you can genuinely create better gameplay than a AAA studio. But you can't sell gameplay. Whenever I read reviews for games, it's the gameplay I am most interested in, but it's usually less than 10% of a review is devoted to gameplay mechanics. Store pages tend to have little info on gameplay too.
Ofc, when gaming journalists praise games like Vampire Survivor for it's awesome gameplay, despite it having the most basic and shallow gameplay imaginable, maybe we're better off not having them evaluate the mechanics....
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
Ofc, when gaming journalists praise games like Vampire Survivor for it's awesome gameplay, despite it having the most basic and shallow gameplay imaginable, maybe we're better off not having them evaluate the mechanics....
It’s kind of like how the gaming industry has become after all of these years. Games in general used to be created mostly by other gamers and people that honestly knew what gamers wanted. They were our blood.
Fast forward to today and the industry is loaded with a bunch of suits that run focus studies to try and understand our market and pin point what will make the company the most money.
It’s a natural progression of a niche thing becoming popular, but it also means your going to have a lot of people saying what is good in a game just because that’s what they have been told. A lot of the modern gaming journalist don’t really have a grasp on what makes a game great imo. Not all of them, but most.
It just means we need to find communities of people we can trust and I think that’s what’s going on here on this site.
/played-mmorpgs
Total time played:9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
Perhaps the real problem is that customers are too free with thier money and will buy all the trash in hopes of just getting 1 hit. They are addicts with big dreams of the next good game. (I admit I fall in this crowd)
If there was less spending maybe more devs would build better games in order to compete for the limited funds.
When you can release a full garbage game and still make bank, why put effort in.
This became very apparent when mobile games started showing up in droves...... Gamers traded quality for convenience.....We even started seeing games where you didnt even have to play at all (autoplay)...How convenient is that, and how do we even call something like that a game?
Fast forward to today and the industry is loaded with a bunch of suits that run focus studies to try and understand our market and pin point what will make the company the most money.
Do you think they are actually doing any studies at all LOL? I agree that studios are out of touch with customers, I just dont agree with your premise that its the "suits" fault.
I would like to see a game actually do some sort of study on what the customers actually want.
What I see is a bunch of devs coming out of school with ZERO concept of what customers want. Many of the Indie game devs that should be innovating are instead making NICHE games "they want to play". Unfortunatly these types of games are completely unpopular. For whatever reason the game devs dont care and would rather go out of business than change the game to a more popular version.
Fast forward to today and the industry is loaded with a bunch of suits that run focus studies to try and understand our market and pin point what will make the company the most money.
Do you think they are actually doing any studies at all LOL? I agree that studios are out of touch with customers, I just dont agree with your premise that its the "suits" fault.
I would like to see a game actually do some sort of study on what the customers actually want.
What I see is a bunch of devs coming out of school with ZERO concept of what customers want. Many of the Indie game devs that should be innovating are instead making NICHE games "they want to play". Unfortunatly these types of games are completely unpopular. For whatever reason the game devs dont care and would rather go out of business than change the game to a more popular version.
I think Spose explains pretty well why an artist (which game developers are of a sort) would want to make the music or game they like rather than create that which is popular.
I wrote a verse and said, "Listen to this shit" They put their hands to their foreheads as I kicked it They're like, "Look, I don't think that you get it Nobody cares about your verse, it's not '96, kid!" I told them, "Look man, I'd rather have my wrists slit Than sound like every other fucking singer in the business" They're like, "Really, Spose, would it be that cataclysmic To make a couple songs for top 40 and rhythmic? With hooks big enough to catch Moby Dick with? With very few words and some melodies addictive? If you're not up to the task, grab your bags Call a cab, its too bad because
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Fast forward to today and the industry is loaded with a bunch of suits that run focus studies to try and understand our market and pin point what will make the company the most money.
Do you think they are actually doing any studies at all LOL? I agree that studios are out of touch with customers, I just dont agree with your premise that its the "suits" fault.
Yes, I was just asked by CAPCOM if they could collect analytics of my game play. They use it for future development and marketing. I said yes, because why not give them some data. It won't be a lot because that sort of survival horror isn't my thing, but I'll play for a bit and check it out.
Fast forward to today and the industry is loaded with a bunch of suits that run focus studies to try and understand our market and pin point what will make the company the most money.
Do you think they are actually doing any studies at all LOL? I agree that studios are out of touch with customers, I just dont agree with your premise that its the "suits" fault.
Yes, I was just asked by CAPCOM if they could collect analytics of my game play. They use it for future development and marketing. I said yes, because why not give them some data. It won't be a lot because that sort of survival horror isn't my thing, but I'll play for a bit and check it out.
I should say when I am thinking of studies I am thinking of analytics, questionaries the whole caboodle. Studios are definitely doing studies, what they decide to do with the results is not always too the players taste of course. A study which shows dissatisfaction with loot boxes is unlikely to get loot boxes cancelled and so on. But indie studios do less for sure, they don't have the resources for it. I imagine they rely far too much on what players say on Discord and to a lesser extent these days official forums, we all know how disproportionately positive or negative that can be.
Fast forward to today and the industry is loaded with a bunch of suits that run focus studies to try and understand our market and pin point what will make the company the most money.
Do you think they are actually doing any studies at all LOL? I agree that studios are out of touch with customers, I just dont agree with your premise that its the "suits" fault.
Yes, I was just asked by CAPCOM if they could collect analytics of my game play. They use it for future development and marketing. I said yes, because why not give them some data. It won't be a lot because that sort of survival horror isn't my thing, but I'll play for a bit and check it out.
Err, survival horror is sort of my thing, so what Capcom game are we talking about here?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Fast forward to today and the industry is loaded with a bunch of suits that run focus studies to try and understand our market and pin point what will make the company the most money.
Do you think they are actually doing any studies at all LOL? I agree that studios are out of touch with customers, I just dont agree with your premise that its the "suits" fault.
Yes, I was just asked by CAPCOM if they could collect analytics of my game play. They use it for future development and marketing. I said yes, because why not give them some data. It won't be a lot because that sort of survival horror isn't my thing, but I'll play for a bit and check it out.
Err, survival horror is sort of my thing, so what Capcom game are we talking about here?
Fast forward to today and the industry is loaded with a bunch of suits that run focus studies to try and understand our market and pin point what will make the company the most money.
Do you think they are actually doing any studies at all LOL? I agree that studios are out of touch with customers, I just dont agree with your premise that its the "suits" fault.
I would like to see a game actually do some sort of study on what the customers actually want.
What I see is a bunch of devs coming out of school with ZERO concept of what customers want. Many of the Indie game devs that should be innovating are instead making NICHE games "they want to play". Unfortunatly these types of games are completely unpopular. For whatever reason the game devs dont care and would rather go out of business than change the game to a more popular version.
The customers dont even know what they want....we have seen that here hundreds of times.....YOu can ask 10 people what they want, and they will tell you 10 different things...I've always thought you let the devs make the game they want and we decide if we like it or not......Once you start letting the players decide what is best, you usually end up with a mess of a game....We see it all the time, games trying to please everyone and end up pleasing no one.
Fast forward to today and the industry is loaded with a bunch of suits that run focus studies to try and understand our market and pin point what will make the company the most money.
Do you think they are actually doing any studies at all LOL? I agree that studios are out of touch with customers, I just dont agree with your premise that its the "suits" fault.
Yes, I was just asked by CAPCOM if they could collect analytics of my game play. They use it for future development and marketing. I said yes, because why not give them some data. It won't be a lot because that sort of survival horror isn't my thing, but I'll play for a bit and check it out.
Err, survival horror is sort of my thing, so what Capcom game are we talking about here?
Resident Evil 2. It's a very good game, but I don't enjoy games where I have to manage bullets inventory so closely.
I made it out of the gas station (first place you end up) okay, but used all 7 bullets. It's a very tempting mistake to try and kill all the zombie instead of making to the objective in one piece.
The next stop, police station, gave me 6 pistol rounds and set me on my next objective. I'm going to scout for a few more rounds, but that doesn't excite me. I understand the tension of not being able to use overwhelming force to blast it all to bits, but that isn't what I like in a game. I like to hole up, collect resources, fortify, and strategically take out objectives.
Since I hadn't tried a Resident Evil game since PS1, I thought I'd give it a go. I'll keep it installed for now, but I would rather play survival crafting builders. Currently I'm playing ARK: Survival Ascended and dinos can definitely be a horror. 7Days, Valheim, ARK, and Grounded are more my speed.
Comments
Because of the never ending Alpha status (10 yrs now) the only money they make is from selling copies of the game to new users, often at huge discounts of under $5.
This really doesn't give them enough revenue to substantially improve the game, create DLC packs or proper sequels.
I literally can't spend more money unless I want to buy more copies for friends (I already have 2 for myself) or want to buy some of their merch in the store.
Apparently paying developers more money for quality new content is an unpopular position.
When I made similar complaint on the 7D2D subReddit I was largely down voted. Apparently most gamers prefer to just play games for cheap or free.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
One thing Star Citizen is doing well is insisting on a premium product with no hesitation to charge premium prices.
I wouldn’t want customers who think that $.25 an hour for entertainment is too high of a price to pay. Screw those chiselers.
"Perhaps the problem is..we don't have enough porn games?"
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Often it's because of information overload, it's not that it isn't out there I just don't have time to process it all.
Ever talk to a friend about the most wonderful movie or TV series you just finished watching only to have them blank stare you and say they've never seen it?
Here's one for you all, Faces of Mankind, Apple TV, just heard of it in its fourth season despite having an Apple TV sub for well over a year. Too much choice on TV I tell you.
It's a lot that like that, it's possible the company in the article has some games that I would really enjoy, but likely I'll never know it.
Even though I've had a good time the last 7 months playing 7D2D my own internal FOMO can't help but wonder what else I might have enjoyed, perhaps even more had I only taken a different path.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah this just doesnt happen to me. I have a full steam library of games 1 person here or there recommended that are just junk.
I cant think of a single time I stumbled onto a game that was good that has been released more than 1 year.
I guess my feed or people I trust inform me enough to let me know of good title releases either before they release or shortly thereafter.
Theoretically their might be a diamond out there I have yet to find that is lost in obscurity, but I am getting sick of trying to wade through the mountains of trash to find it. More often or not its just people giving bad recommendations because they are so ill informed.
I love the "This is the best RTS game ever" recommendation. Then ask them how many RTS games they played. Answer: Just this one.
There is so much garbage out there, people are now using the garbage as the baseline to measure other garbage. Compared to XXXX game this is a 10.
If there was less spending maybe more devs would build better games in order to compete for the limited funds.
When you can release a full garbage game and still make bank, why put effort in.
Show-off!
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
This became very apparent when mobile games started showing up in droves...... Gamers traded quality for convenience.....We even started seeing games where you didnt even have to play at all (autoplay)...How convenient is that, and how do we even call something like that a game?
Do you think they are actually doing any studies at all LOL? I agree that studios are out of touch with customers, I just dont agree with your premise that its the "suits" fault.
I would like to see a game actually do some sort of study on what the customers actually want.
What I see is a bunch of devs coming out of school with ZERO concept of what customers want. Many of the Indie game devs that should be innovating are instead making NICHE games "they want to play". Unfortunatly these types of games are completely unpopular. For whatever reason the game devs dont care and would rather go out of business than change the game to a more popular version.
I wrote a verse and said, "Listen to this shit"
They put their hands to their foreheads as I kicked it
They're like, "Look, I don't think that you get it
Nobody cares about your verse, it's not '96, kid!"
I told them, "Look man, I'd rather have my wrists slit
Than sound like every other fucking singer in the business"
They're like, "Really, Spose, would it be that cataclysmic
To make a couple songs for top 40 and rhythmic?
With hooks big enough to catch Moby Dick with?
With very few words and some melodies addictive?
If you're not up to the task, grab your bags
Call a cab, its too bad because
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yes, I was just asked by CAPCOM if they could collect analytics of my game play. They use it for future development and marketing. I said yes, because why not give them some data. It won't be a lot because that sort of survival horror isn't my thing, but I'll play for a bit and check it out.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
mmorpg junkie since 1999
The customers dont even know what they want....we have seen that here hundreds of times.....YOu can ask 10 people what they want, and they will tell you 10 different things...I've always thought you let the devs make the game they want and we decide if we like it or not......Once you start letting the players decide what is best, you usually end up with a mess of a game....We see it all the time, games trying to please everyone and end up pleasing no one.