Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Fast forward to today and the industry is loaded with a bunch of suits that run focus studies to try and understand our market and pin point what will make the company the most money.
Do you think they are actually doing any studies at all LOL? I agree that studios are out of touch with customers, I just dont agree with your premise that its the "suits" fault.
Yes, I was just asked by CAPCOM if they could collect analytics of my game play. They use it for future development and marketing. I said yes, because why not give them some data. It won't be a lot because that sort of survival horror isn't my thing, but I'll play for a bit and check it out.
Are they actually asking you survey questions to decipher what parts of the game you like and didnt like? Or did you just consent to be put on a advertising list, for hardware software, or any other consumer product that is remotely relevant to the games you play?
My guess is either way you just added yourself to Facebook and Googles data collection profile.
The customers dont even know what they want....we have seen that here hundreds of times.....YOu can ask 10 people what they want, and they will tell you 10 different things...I've always thought you let the devs make the game they want and we decide if we like it or not......Once you start letting the players decide what is best, you usually end up with a mess of a game....We see it all the time, games trying to please everyone and end up pleasing no one.
Well the idea is to not just ask any 10 people, that seems an extremely outdated way of getting information.
What you really need to be doing,
Indentify players that like games where the massive majority are generally successful.
Identify players that like alot of unsuccessful games.
Listen to ideas from the successful group.
Ignore ideas from the unsuccessful group.
Bankroll.
I have heard so many times where a player will openly admit to dev's in Alpha/Beta how they love XXXX extremely niche games. Yet the devs seem embrace so many of these peoples ideas. I think there is a lack of common sense with that.
If you have a focus group that all love many of the unsuccessful super niche game titles hmmm I wonder where that will lead.
Fast forward to today and the industry is loaded with a bunch of suits that run focus studies to try and understand our market and pin point what will make the company the most money.
Do you think they are actually doing any studies at all LOL? I agree that studios are out of touch with customers, I just dont agree with your premise that its the "suits" fault.
Yes, I was just asked by CAPCOM if they could collect analytics of my game play. They use it for future development and marketing. I said yes, because why not give them some data. It won't be a lot because that sort of survival horror isn't my thing, but I'll play for a bit and check it out.
Are they actually asking you survey questions to decipher what parts of the game you like and didnt like? Or did you just consent to be put on a advertising list, for hardware software, or any other consumer product that is remotely relevant to the games you play?
My guess is either way you just added yourself to Facebook and Googles data collection profile.
I consented to in game data harvesting, metrics, and usage for CAPCOM. Microsoft sent me a survey for Lego Fortnite which I didn't feel like filling out.
They can play Facebook or Google with it for all I care. It said marketing and future development, so that would track. I get the occasional marketing email from CAPCOM. They sent me a Dragon's Dogma 2 announcement.
I consented to in game data harvesting, metrics, and usage for CAPCOM. Microsoft sent me a survey for Lego Fortnite which I didn't feel like filling out.
They can play Facebook or Google with it for all I care. It said marketing and future development, so that would track. I get the occasional marketing email from CAPCOM. They sent me a Dragon's Dogma 2 announcement.
Yes I wish they would actually use this information to make better games. Unfortunately they are only concerned with selling more bad ones.
Thanks for the update, I wouldnt care much for limitations on being able to spray bullets mercilessly, won't be trying that one out.
That is why 'fallout' is great. I find bullets and I can carry several types of guns and collect them like a pack rat and I tend to overuse the trigger quite a lot.
If you limit me I definitely cannot succeed with that number of bullets plus it places a huge strain on the fun part of a game. I avoid any game that limits me on these types of resources like bullets. Have not played many games like that and if I want to see the story like 'last of us' there is always youtube.
Thanks for the update, I wouldnt care much for limitations on being able to spray bullets mercilessly, won't be trying that one out.
That is why 'fallout' is great. I find bullets and I can carry several types of guns and collect them like a pack rat and I tend to overuse the trigger quite a lot.
If you limit me I definitely cannot succeed with that number of bullets plus it places a huge strain on the fun part of a game. I avoid any game that limits me on these types of resources like bullets. Have not played many games like that and if I want to see the story like 'last of us' there is always youtube.
Yep, my friends and I played FO76 for about 18 months and we had a good time.
Once they started the seasons though I quickly burned out on just logging in to do my dailies and after Season 3 I had to go play something else.
We're all back together in 7D2D for the past 7 months, Day 907 in our current A-21 build.
People often ask what do we do since the character progression stopped a very long time ago.
Anything we want is the answer, in any order we feel like, whenever the mood strikes us.
It's very liberating to play a game entirely your own way, with no specific set of chores or paths, probably why I kept going back to EVE for 10 years.
I've been designing base structures using bullet proof glass lately..... You should see my tiki bar
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yep, my friends and I played FO76 for about 18 months and we had a good time.
Once they started the seasons though I quickly burned out on just logging in to do my dailies and after Season 3 I had to go play something else.
We're all back together in 7D2D for the past 7 months, Day 907 in our current A-21 build.
People often ask what do we do since the character progression stopped a very long time ago.
Anything we want is the answer, in any order we feel like, whenever the mood strikes us.
It's very liberating to play a game entirely your own way, with no specific set of chores or paths, probably why I kept going back to EVE for 10 years.
I've been designing base structures using bullet proof glass lately..... You should see my tiki bar
Hmmm, this is reminding me that we talked about the survival elements in FO76 and they had needing to eat and drink but what you said from memory was that was easy to keep up and indeed about buffs rather than life or death. Bouncing in from the other thread, what I am getting at is when that sort of survival makes you feel you are spending too much time on a gameplay loop which gets you nowhere.
So I am starting to think, what is the norm if there is one for this sort of gameplay? If anyone could tell us about Conan Exiles and so on. How much time is being spent on drinking, eating and worst of all in my eyes exposure? If you aren't really spending that much time I would find it a nuisance more than a show stopper. And these days I find many, many things in new MMOs a nuisance and have still played them.
Yep, my friends and I played FO76 for about 18 months and we had a good time.
Once they started the seasons though I quickly burned out on just logging in to do my dailies and after Season 3 I had to go play something else.
We're all back together in 7D2D for the past 7 months, Day 907 in our current A-21 build.
People often ask what do we do since the character progression stopped a very long time ago.
Anything we want is the answer, in any order we feel like, whenever the mood strikes us.
It's very liberating to play a game entirely your own way, with no specific set of chores or paths, probably why I kept going back to EVE for 10 years.
I've been designing base structures using bullet proof glass lately..... You should see my tiki bar
Hmmm, this is reminding me that we talked about the survival elements in FO76 and they had needing to eat and drink but what you said from memory was that was easy to keep up and indeed about buffs rather than life or death. Bouncing in from the other thread, what I am getting at is when that sort of survival makes you feel you are spending too much time on a gameplay loop which gets you nowhere.
So I am starting to think, what is the norm if there is one for this sort of gameplay? If anyone could tell us about Conan Exiles and so on. How much time is being spent on drinking, eating and worst of all in my eyes exposure? If you aren't really spending that much time I would find it a nuisance more than a show stopper. And these days I find many, many things in new MMOs a nuisance and have still played them.
To me, there are two advantages to a game that has these "nuisances."
One is the preparations/maintenance that a player needs to do. This is good game play in my mind, because it adds to the "living world" feel as well as making things a bit more challenging. I dream of a game where there are HUGE expanses of wilderness to explore, and expeditions are more interesting if you have to account for things like food, water, clothing, and supplies. On the other hand, developing a character that can go out there and solo the wilds indefinitely, that should be a great accomplishment. Or a valuable aid for a party on an expedition.
The other is it also makes food or cold weather clothing another important aspect of the economic game, both production and merchandizing.
But all this is based on my ideals of a good game. I recognize that some gamers just want the basics of "hack and slash", as it were. There is plenty of room for different styles and concepts of the worlds we are offered.
Yep, my friends and I played FO76 for about 18 months and we had a good time.
Once they started the seasons though I quickly burned out on just logging in to do my dailies and after Season 3 I had to go play something else.
We're all back together in 7D2D for the past 7 months, Day 907 in our current A-21 build.
People often ask what do we do since the character progression stopped a very long time ago.
Anything we want is the answer, in any order we feel like, whenever the mood strikes us.
It's very liberating to play a game entirely your own way, with no specific set of chores or paths, probably why I kept going back to EVE for 10 years.
I've been designing base structures using bullet proof glass lately..... You should see my tiki bar
Hmmm, this is reminding me that we talked about the survival elements in FO76 and they had needing to eat and drink but what you said from memory was that was easy to keep up and indeed about buffs rather than life or death. Bouncing in from the other thread, what I am getting at is when that sort of survival makes you feel you are spending too much time on a gameplay loop which gets you nowhere.
So I am starting to think, what is the norm if there is one for this sort of gameplay? If anyone could tell us about Conan Exiles and so on. How much time is being spent on drinking, eating and worst of all in my eyes exposure? If you aren't really spending that much time I would find it a nuisance more than a show stopper. And these days I find many, many things in new MMOs a nuisance and have still played them.
I would say the official servers for a game set the baseline standard. ARK is incredibly grindy as is 7Days official.
My ARK saves and servers set the hunger and thirst rate to .25, instead of 1. The need is still there but I'm not eating 50K calories a day just to not starve. The rest of the values and settings in the game are tweaked as well.
For example, Dino taming and egg hatching/rearing is much more tedious than interesting or challenging. I turn them down so it takes just a minute for easy/lesser dinos and maybe 10 - 20 minutes at the most for raid level dinos.
There is so much more to do in the game than sit around and watch meters, like raiding all the bosses on all tiers. Ascending and collecting the lore bits which are scattered around the maps.
The beauty of the system is that it can be tweaked to match the interests of the players. When hosting multiplayer dedicated servers, I like to talk to everyone in discord and go over at least the major settings options together. For example, in 7Days, I like to use a mod that adds wandering hordes and then I turn off blood moons. It feels more organic to me if the standard routine is occasionally interrupted by a horde, and I don't have to worry over the blood moon schedule.
Conan Exiles is highly configurable too, much like ARK. Valheim is highly configurable with the Valheim+ mod, but has fairly sane config options without it. Hope that helps answer.
Thanks for the update, I wouldnt care much for limitations on being able to spray bullets mercilessly, won't be trying that one out.
That is why 'fallout' is great. I find bullets and I can carry several types of guns and collect them like a pack rat and I tend to overuse the trigger quite a lot.
If you limit me I definitely cannot succeed with that number of bullets plus it places a huge strain on the fun part of a game. I avoid any game that limits me on these types of resources like bullets. Have not played many games like that and if I want to see the story like 'last of us' there is always youtube.
What I have found out for myself in survival games is I like guns.....I dont like to melee zombies......Give me stealth, lots of ammo, and an automatic weapon and I am ready to play.....Give me a hammer, golf club, or tire iron and I am zombie food.
What I have found out for myself in survival games is I like guns.....I dont like to melee zombies......Give me stealth, lots of ammo, and an automatic weapon and I am ready to play.....Give me a hammer, golf club, or tire iron and I am zombie food.
To me, there are two advantages to a game that has these "nuisances."
One is the preparations/maintenance that a player needs to do. This is good game play in my mind, because it adds to the "living world" feel as well as making things a bit more challenging. I dream of a game where there are HUGE expanses of wilderness to explore, and expeditions are more interesting if you have to account for things like food, water, clothing, and supplies. On the other hand, developing a character that can go out there and solo the wilds indefinitely, that should be a great accomplishment. Or a valuable aid for a party on an expedition.
The other is it also makes food or cold weather clothing another important aspect of the economic game, both production and merchandizing.
But all this is based on my ideals of a good game. I recognize that some gamers just want the basics of "hack and slash", as it were. There is plenty of room for different styles and concepts of the worlds we are offered.
I can see the realism as opposed to fantasy argument, players have all sorts of preferences along that scale. In fact I came across these arguments in TTRPG's first funnily enough. So I am not saying they don't fit the theme or whatever, just that I don't like the gameplay. Thinking back this is the only time on these forums I have argued for something that is easier, I always argue for the tougher experience. But I just find excessive survival too frustrating.
Also as I mentioned, the survival elements are not all the same, if we are talking buffs, that's not survival in my eyes unless they are must have buffs.
We all have different tastes and I note that among the TTRPG streams I watch there was a couple that described themselves as 'hardcore survival' so you can find it even there. But if I can be factious; I drink, eat and put on a coat every day, I don't want to do that in a game.
One of the modern complaints by long time players regarding 7D2D is that too much of the crafting /survival elements have been dialed back over its 10 years of Alpha, but having only started last June I no frame of reference
TLDR: I prefer a lighter approach to survival, which is why I avoid games like Project Zomboid or the Darkness Falls mod for 7Days as they go out of their way to make basic survival more difficult.
In A-21 the dev team decided to make water gathering more challenging in the early game stages ostensibly to offset the addition of the new dew collectors which generate 3 bottle of boiled water daily.
Everything for a reason, the filter element to make to dew collector can only be purchased from or received as a low level mission reward from the Traders.
There has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth over this but I didn't find it particularly onerous myself.
In A-21 TFP really doubled down on the Trader mechanic, much to the dismay of the crafting / sandbox crowd.
It is definitely more rewarding now for new players to start off slavishly completing trader missions (which are like the worst kind of fetch or kill tasks found in most MMORPGs) for the best rewards much faster than by looting or crafting.
I didn't know this when I started last summer, so taking the lead of an experienced player from earlier alphas we all leveled up in the old school style, without ever running a mission, only using traders to sell excess loot or but some key gear, which is how I got our first crucible so we could start forging steel.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
To me, there are two advantages to a game that has these "nuisances."
One is the preparations/maintenance that a player needs to do. This is good game play in my mind, because it adds to the "living world" feel as well as making things a bit more challenging. I dream of a game where there are HUGE expanses of wilderness to explore, and expeditions are more interesting if you have to account for things like food, water, clothing, and supplies. On the other hand, developing a character that can go out there and solo the wilds indefinitely, that should be a great accomplishment. Or a valuable aid for a party on an expedition.
The other is it also makes food or cold weather clothing another important aspect of the economic game, both production and merchandizing.
But all this is based on my ideals of a good game. I recognize that some gamers just want the basics of "hack and slash", as it were. There is plenty of room for different styles and concepts of the worlds we are offered.
I can see the realism as opposed to fantasy argument, players have all sorts of preferences along that scale. In fact I came across these arguments in TTRPG's first funnily enough. So I am not saying they don't fit the theme or whatever, just that I don't like the gameplay. Thinking back this is the only time on these forums I have argued for something that is easier, I always argue for the tougher experience. But I just find excessive survival too frustrating.
Also as I mentioned, the survival elements are not all the same, if we are talking buffs, that's not survival in my eyes unless they are must have buffs.
We all have different tastes and I note that among the TTRPG streams I watch there was a couple that described themselves as 'hardcore survival' so you can find it even there. But if I can be factious; I drink, eat and put on a coat every day, I don't want to do that in a game.
Yeah, there's a difference between a Survival Game and a "Worldly Sandbox MMO." I'm thinking in terms of the "Worldly Sandbox MMO" here.
I'm against "hardcore" for this, but enough that it's important. So, in normal game play (as opposed to a lengthy Expedition), - You simply eat and drink something every 4 hours of game play for whatever the effect is. - That effect, in my opinion, should be maintenance of peak performance. - If you start missing those, at first it shouldn't matter. But the longer you go without, then the effects should start small but accumulate over time. - For effects, I'm thinking of something like stat loss all around. In percentage terms, something like -0%, -1%, -2%, -4%, -8%, etc.) That's after play time in 4 hour increments.
- Foods can be dried rations, and any water that's "pure", including using spells or alchemical mixtures on skunky water.
- Fresh cooked foods should be better in some way. I'd say something like a bigger instant recovery of any lost stats, based on the fresh cooked item. Stews should be better than just fresh meat, for example. Fresh cooked foods should also offer some sort of longer term benefit, maybe making that first time period 6-12 hours instead of 4.
So, under normal game play, you can see that this isn't anything to worry about. It takes seconds to take care of it, every 4 hours (or longer). It's just a matter of a minor maintenance.
But when you get into long term Expeditions of Discovery, or special Resource collecting, then it gets into a bigger game play plan.
So, player run Taverns, Farms, Hunters and Gatherers, and Skills that matter here (Alchemical, Spell Scrolls, Gear production, Map Makers, etc., all get added game play and become more useful. Add to this Player built forts in the wilds, as the game goes along, for resupplies, for storage of loot, whatever.
Add to this Player run caravans to said forts.
Add to this exciting discoveries of Dungeons, Ruins, Monsters, Resources, etc., and all that that entails.
Food and drink is usually a turn off for me....It depends on how it is done and what are the consequences of them......Personally I could do without eating and drinking in a game...I dont need that kind of realism.
This subject (how to market / find new games) has been churning in my head a lot the last 24 hrs.
I think the old saying "you can't sell gameplay" is really quite true.
Mid-tier and indie developers simply can't compete on graphics. It doesnt matter how talented your artists and modellers are, it simply takes too long to make everything in your game look good. Most estimates I've seen show 80-90% of AAA budget is spent on graphics.
So, if you're not a AAA studio, then you're mainly competing on gameplay. If you have talented designers and developers, you can genuinely create better gameplay than a AAA studio. But you can't sell gameplay. Whenever I read reviews for games, it's the gameplay I am most interested in, but it's usually less than 10% of a review is devoted to gameplay mechanics. Store pages tend to have little info on gameplay too.
Ofc, when gaming journalists praise games like Vampire Survivor for it's awesome gameplay, despite it having the most basic and shallow gameplay imaginable, maybe we're better off not having them evaluate the mechanics....
Sometimes basic and shallow gameplay is exactly what I want. Typically I seek such when I'm feeling well enough to do something but not anything that requires much from me.
One of the things I sometimes do is look through free games on Steam. Though this category is often misapplied to f2p games there are some cases where it leads to genuinely free games. These are typically made by hobbyists for the sake of creativity or by students for assignment completion. This can lead to some interesting discoveries either in the games themselves or similar ones recommended.
Food and drink is usually a turn off for me....It depends on how it is done and what are the consequences of them......Personally I could do without eating and drinking in a game...I dont need that kind of realism.
It’s always interesting to hear different takes on food and drink.
My roommate is playing Skyrim again (in general he only plays the elder scrolls games and no others) and he downloaded Bethesda’s "needs" mod.
He told me “this is what Skyrim should have been!”
Post edited by Sovrath on
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I don't mind food and drink. I just check my inventory like I used to in Everquest and make sure I had enough. Or get some food and drink from a mage if I died.
This mechanic unless it is unnecessarily annoying in a survival game is fine with me. I actually enjoy cooking food in games. It's oddly satisfying to see the meat (which I hardly eat in real life, hate red meat only chicken) , I love fish since I come from a coastal area. Had fish daily in some form, dried or fresh. In Malaysia it floods so you always have dried fish stores. So getting back to the look of the food I love watching the food change in appearance when I cook it. It is one of the pleasurable aspects of survival games.
Just like how I love talking to NPCs in MMORPGs. I want to know the lore and something about an NPC . They begin to have a character more so in a single player game. Some NPCs are unforgettable. It is the things like this that make a game interesting and unforgettable. I still can picture how the food looked in Everquest, WoW the little icon and so on. It warms the soul, fishing and cooking.
I think PalWorld just proved this entire thread wrong.
Clearly there are tons of customers that were waiting for a game to play. When they found something even halfway decent they were willing to put at least $30 into it.
This game had no advertising hardly. PalWorld cost 7mil to make and will easily make over $450 mil before expansions.
I don't mind food and drink. I just check my inventory like I used to in Everquest and make sure I had enough. Or get some food and drink from a mage if I died.
This mechanic unless it is unnecessarily annoying in a survival game is fine with me. I actually enjoy cooking food in games. It's oddly satisfying to see the meat (which I hardly eat in real life, hate red meat only chicken) , I love fish since I come from a coastal area. Had fish daily in some form, dried or fresh. In Malaysia it floods so you always have dried fish stores. So getting back to the look of the food I love watching the food change in appearance when I cook it. It is one of the pleasurable aspects of survival games.
Just like how I love talking to NPCs in MMORPGs. I want to know the lore and something about an NPC . They begin to have a character more so in a single player game. Some NPCs are unforgettable. It is the things like this that make a game interesting and unforgettable. I still can picture how the food looked in Everquest, WoW the little icon and so on. It warms the soul, fishing and cooking.
This is great stuff.
UO wasn't as advanced, but you could make a campfire, then cook food and eat it. Roleplayers used these things for a simple player event, "Campfire Story Night." UO also had a feature where you could write a story in Notepad, then switch from UO to Notepad and copy sections of your story over to UO's speech. That made telling your stories quick and easy, and mistake free.
It was an enjoyable experience, just to take things easy with players in-game. The stories were usually pretty damn good, too. The chit-chat allowed you to get to know others, and sometimes led to making plans for dungeon runs or business arrangements...or whatever.
There are gamers who really like to organize these things and are very good at it. More worldly games allow these people to add a lot on top of the regular game play. Worlds come to life, for gamers who want that.
I don't mind food and drink. I just check my inventory like I used to in Everquest and make sure I had enough. Or get some food and drink from a mage if I died.
This mechanic unless it is unnecessarily annoying in a survival game is fine with me. I actually enjoy cooking food in games. It's oddly satisfying to see the meat (which I hardly eat in real life, hate red meat only chicken) , I love fish since I come from a coastal area. Had fish daily in some form, dried or fresh. In Malaysia it floods so you always have dried fish stores. So getting back to the look of the food I love watching the food change in appearance when I cook it. It is one of the pleasurable aspects of survival games.
Just like how I love talking to NPCs in MMORPGs. I want to know the lore and something about an NPC . They begin to have a character more so in a single player game. Some NPCs are unforgettable. It is the things like this that make a game interesting and unforgettable. I still can picture how the food looked in Everquest, WoW the little icon and so on. It warms the soul, fishing and cooking.
This is great stuff.
UO wasn't as advanced, but you could make a campfire, then cook food and eat it. Roleplayers used these things for a simple player event, "Campfire Story Night." UO also had a feature where you could write a story in Notepad, then switch from UO to Notepad and copy sections of your story over to UO's speech. That made telling your stories quick and easy, and mistake free.
It was an enjoyable experience, just to take things easy with players in-game. The stories were usually pretty damn good, too. The chit-chat allowed you to get to know others, and sometimes led to making plans for dungeon runs or business arrangements...or whatever.
There are gamers who really like to organize these things and are very good at it. More worldly games allow these people to add a lot on top of the regular game play. Worlds come to life, for gamers who want that.
I was too busy being constantly killed by other players in UO to ever hear any stories.....
I don't mind food and drink. I just check my inventory like I used to in Everquest and make sure I had enough. Or get some food and drink from a mage if I died.
This mechanic unless it is unnecessarily annoying in a survival game is fine with me. I actually enjoy cooking food in games. It's oddly satisfying to see the meat (which I hardly eat in real life, hate red meat only chicken) , I love fish since I come from a coastal area. Had fish daily in some form, dried or fresh. In Malaysia it floods so you always have dried fish stores. So getting back to the look of the food I love watching the food change in appearance when I cook it. It is one of the pleasurable aspects of survival games.
Just like how I love talking to NPCs in MMORPGs. I want to know the lore and something about an NPC . They begin to have a character more so in a single player game. Some NPCs are unforgettable. It is the things like this that make a game interesting and unforgettable. I still can picture how the food looked in Everquest, WoW the little icon and so on. It warms the soul, fishing and cooking.
This is great stuff.
UO wasn't as advanced, but you could make a campfire, then cook food and eat it. Roleplayers used these things for a simple player event, "Campfire Story Night." UO also had a feature where you could write a story in Notepad, then switch from UO to Notepad and copy sections of your story over to UO's speech. That made telling your stories quick and easy, and mistake free.
It was an enjoyable experience, just to take things easy with players in-game. The stories were usually pretty damn good, too. The chit-chat allowed you to get to know others, and sometimes led to making plans for dungeon runs or business arrangements...or whatever.
There are gamers who really like to organize these things and are very good at it. More worldly games allow these people to add a lot on top of the regular game play. Worlds come to life, for gamers who want that.
I was too busy being constantly killed by other players in UO to ever hear any stories.....
The funny thing is that a lot of the top tier, most well known "PKers" and PvPers were Roleplayers and did this kind of stuff. LOL
And excellent, dedicated RPers, at that. They used different characters, in most cases. Especially if they were RPing bad guys (PKers).
Edit to add: These weren't your common PKers, by the way, who just wanted to steal your loot. They believed in the "wild west" design of UO, and played accordingly.
I never agreed with that, but I can understand it to a degree.
I don't mind food and drink. I just check my inventory like I used to in Everquest and make sure I had enough. Or get some food and drink from a mage if I died.
This mechanic unless it is unnecessarily annoying in a survival game is fine with me. I actually enjoy cooking food in games. It's oddly satisfying to see the meat (which I hardly eat in real life, hate red meat only chicken) , I love fish since I come from a coastal area. Had fish daily in some form, dried or fresh. In Malaysia it floods so you always have dried fish stores. So getting back to the look of the food I love watching the food change in appearance when I cook it. It is one of the pleasurable aspects of survival games.
Just like how I love talking to NPCs in MMORPGs. I want to know the lore and something about an NPC . They begin to have a character more so in a single player game. Some NPCs are unforgettable. It is the things like this that make a game interesting and unforgettable. I still can picture how the food looked in Everquest, WoW the little icon and so on. It warms the soul, fishing and cooking.
This is great stuff.
UO wasn't as advanced, but you could make a campfire, then cook food and eat it. Roleplayers used these things for a simple player event, "Campfire Story Night." UO also had a feature where you could write a story in Notepad, then switch from UO to Notepad and copy sections of your story over to UO's speech. That made telling your stories quick and easy, and mistake free.
It was an enjoyable experience, just to take things easy with players in-game. The stories were usually pretty damn good, too. The chit-chat allowed you to get to know others, and sometimes led to making plans for dungeon runs or business arrangements...or whatever.
There are gamers who really like to organize these things and are very good at it. More worldly games allow these people to add a lot on top of the regular game play. Worlds come to life, for gamers who want that.
I was too busy being constantly killed by other players in UO to ever hear any stories.....
The funny thing is that a lot of the top tier, most well known "PKers" and PvPers were Roleplayers and did this kind of stuff. LOL
And excellent, dedicated RPers, at that. They used different characters, in most cases. Especially if they were RPing bad guys (PKers).
Edit to add: These weren't your common PKers, by the way, who just wanted to steal your loot. They believed in the "wild west" design of UO, and played accordingly.
I never agreed with that, but I can understand it to a degree.
I have no doubt they didnt want the loot...They were killing new players as they left Brittain...They knew there was nothing of value, they just wanted to be idiots....Thing is how many potential players did those guys drive away? I know I had no interest playing a game like that...UO lost me as a customer...how many others?...but its their own fault they designed the game that way.....later they came up with Trammell, probably because someone knew they lost alot of customers with the hardcore rules.
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My guess is either way you just added yourself to Facebook and Googles data collection profile.
Well the idea is to not just ask any 10 people, that seems an extremely outdated way of getting information.
What you really need to be doing,
I have heard so many times where a player will openly admit to dev's in Alpha/Beta how they love XXXX extremely niche games. Yet the devs seem embrace so many of these peoples ideas. I think there is a lack of common sense with that.
If you have a focus group that all love many of the unsuccessful super niche game titles hmmm I wonder where that will lead.
If you limit me I definitely cannot succeed with that number of bullets plus it places a huge strain on the fun part of a game. I avoid any game that limits me on these types of resources like bullets. Have not played many games like that and if I want to see the story like 'last of us' there is always youtube.
Once they started the seasons though I quickly burned out on just logging in to do my dailies and after Season 3 I had to go play something else.
We're all back together in 7D2D for the past 7 months, Day 907 in our current A-21 build.
People often ask what do we do since the character progression stopped a very long time ago.
Anything we want is the answer, in any order we feel like, whenever the mood strikes us.
It's very liberating to play a game entirely your own way, with no specific set of chores or paths, probably why I kept going back to EVE for 10 years.
I've been designing base structures using bullet proof glass lately..... You should see my tiki bar
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So I am starting to think, what is the norm if there is one for this sort of gameplay? If anyone could tell us about Conan Exiles and so on. How much time is being spent on drinking, eating and worst of all in my eyes exposure? If you aren't really spending that much time I would find it a nuisance more than a show stopper. And these days I find many, many things in new MMOs a nuisance and have still played them.
One is the preparations/maintenance that a player needs to do. This is good game play in my mind, because it adds to the "living world" feel as well as making things a bit more challenging. I dream of a game where there are HUGE expanses of wilderness to explore, and expeditions are more interesting if you have to account for things like food, water, clothing, and supplies.
On the other hand, developing a character that can go out there and solo the wilds indefinitely, that should be a great accomplishment. Or a valuable aid for a party on an expedition.
The other is it also makes food or cold weather clothing another important aspect of the economic game, both production and merchandizing.
But all this is based on my ideals of a good game. I recognize that some gamers just want the basics of "hack and slash", as it were.
There is plenty of room for different styles and concepts of the worlds we are offered.
Once upon a time....
What I have found out for myself in survival games is I like guns.....I dont like to melee zombies......Give me stealth, lots of ammo, and an automatic weapon and I am ready to play.....Give me a hammer, golf club, or tire iron and I am zombie food.
Also as I mentioned, the survival elements are not all the same, if we are talking buffs, that's not survival in my eyes unless they are must have buffs.
We all have different tastes and I note that among the TTRPG streams I watch there was a couple that described themselves as 'hardcore survival' so you can find it even there. But if I can be factious; I drink, eat and put on a coat every day, I don't want to do that in a game.
TLDR: I prefer a lighter approach to survival, which is why I avoid games like Project Zomboid or the Darkness Falls mod for 7Days as they go out of their way to make basic survival more difficult.
In A-21 the dev team decided to make water gathering more challenging in the early game stages ostensibly to offset the addition of the new dew collectors which generate 3 bottle of boiled water daily.
Everything for a reason, the filter element to make to dew collector can only be purchased from or received as a low level mission reward from the Traders.
There has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth over this but I didn't find it particularly onerous myself.
In A-21 TFP really doubled down on the Trader mechanic, much to the dismay of the crafting / sandbox crowd.
It is definitely more rewarding now for new players to start off slavishly completing trader missions (which are like the worst kind of fetch or kill tasks found in most MMORPGs) for the best rewards much faster than by looting or crafting.
I didn't know this when I started last summer, so taking the lead of an experienced player from earlier alphas we all leveled up in the old school style, without ever running a mission, only using traders to sell excess loot or but some key gear, which is how I got our first crucible so we could start forging steel.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm thinking in terms of the "Worldly Sandbox MMO" here.
I'm against "hardcore" for this, but enough that it's important.
So, in normal game play (as opposed to a lengthy Expedition),
- You simply eat and drink something every 4 hours of game play for whatever the effect is.
- That effect, in my opinion, should be maintenance of peak performance.
- If you start missing those, at first it shouldn't matter. But the longer you go without, then the effects should start small but accumulate over time.
- For effects, I'm thinking of something like stat loss all around. In percentage terms, something like -0%, -1%, -2%, -4%, -8%, etc.) That's after play time in 4 hour increments.
- Foods can be dried rations, and any water that's "pure", including using spells or alchemical mixtures on skunky water.
- Fresh cooked foods should be better in some way. I'd say something like a bigger instant recovery of any lost stats, based on the fresh cooked item. Stews should be better than just fresh meat, for example.
Fresh cooked foods should also offer some sort of longer term benefit, maybe making that first time period 6-12 hours instead of 4.
So, under normal game play, you can see that this isn't anything to worry about. It takes seconds to take care of it, every 4 hours (or longer).
It's just a matter of a minor maintenance.
But when you get into long term Expeditions of Discovery, or special Resource collecting, then it gets into a bigger game play plan.
So, player run Taverns, Farms, Hunters and Gatherers, and Skills that matter here (Alchemical, Spell Scrolls, Gear production, Map Makers, etc., all get added game play and become more useful.
Add to this Player built forts in the wilds, as the game goes along, for resupplies, for storage of loot, whatever.
Add to this Player run caravans to said forts.
Add to this exciting discoveries of Dungeons, Ruins, Monsters, Resources, etc., and all that that entails.
Once upon a time....
Sometimes basic and shallow gameplay is exactly what I want. Typically I seek such when I'm feeling well enough to do something but not anything that requires much from me.
One of the things I sometimes do is look through free games on Steam. Though this category is often misapplied to f2p games there are some cases where it leads to genuinely free games. These are typically made by hobbyists for the sake of creativity or by students for assignment completion. This can lead to some interesting discoveries either in the games themselves or similar ones recommended.
My roommate is playing Skyrim again (in general he only plays the elder scrolls games and no others) and he downloaded Bethesda’s "needs" mod.
He told me “this is what Skyrim should have been!”
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This mechanic unless it is unnecessarily annoying in a survival game is fine with me. I actually enjoy cooking food in games. It's oddly satisfying to see the meat (which I hardly eat in real life, hate red meat only chicken) , I love fish since I come from a coastal area. Had fish daily in some form, dried or fresh. In Malaysia it floods so you always have dried fish stores. So getting back to the look of the food I love watching the food change in appearance when I cook it. It is one of the pleasurable aspects of survival games.
Just like how I love talking to NPCs in MMORPGs. I want to know the lore and something about an NPC . They begin to have a character more so in a single player game. Some NPCs are unforgettable. It is the things like this that make a game interesting and unforgettable. I still can picture how the food looked in Everquest, WoW the little icon and so on. It warms the soul, fishing and cooking.
Clearly there are tons of customers that were waiting for a game to play. When they found something even halfway decent they were willing to put at least $30 into it.
This game had no advertising hardly.
PalWorld cost 7mil to make and will easily make over $450 mil before expansions.
Lessons learned.
UO wasn't as advanced, but you could make a campfire, then cook food and eat it.
Roleplayers used these things for a simple player event, "Campfire Story Night."
UO also had a feature where you could write a story in Notepad, then switch from UO to Notepad and copy sections of your story over to UO's speech. That made telling your stories quick and easy, and mistake free.
It was an enjoyable experience, just to take things easy with players in-game. The stories were usually pretty damn good, too. The chit-chat allowed you to get to know others, and sometimes led to making plans for dungeon runs or business arrangements...or whatever.
There are gamers who really like to organize these things and are very good at it.
More worldly games allow these people to add a lot on top of the regular game play.
Worlds come to life, for gamers who want that.
Once upon a time....
I was too busy being constantly killed by other players in UO to ever hear any stories.....
And excellent, dedicated RPers, at that.
They used different characters, in most cases. Especially if they were RPing bad guys (PKers).
Edit to add: These weren't your common PKers, by the way, who just wanted to steal your loot. They believed in the "wild west" design of UO, and played accordingly.
I never agreed with that, but I can understand it to a degree.
Once upon a time....
I have no doubt they didnt want the loot...They were killing new players as they left Brittain...They knew there was nothing of value, they just wanted to be idiots....Thing is how many potential players did those guys drive away? I know I had no interest playing a game like that...UO lost me as a customer...how many others?...but its their own fault they designed the game that way.....later they came up with Trammell, probably because someone knew they lost alot of customers with the hardcore rules.