Those examples were so of Wargfoot, if you are going use a team sport the PvP should be faction V faction or teams in a FPS. If you are going to use chess it should be dueling PvP. There is no real analogy in real life but if there was I assure you the sort of bad players you are thinking of would be there.
Anyway PvPers geta a bad rep, they are not all the same. In Deathloop after I killed my first guy three times I never did it again because they lose all their Remindium (or whatever). You don't have to be a dick to enjoy yourself.
In turn I can remember many players helping me out in chat or even forums, but yes you get idiots there to. They tend to be very young.
Yeah, I don't know what the percentages are, but there are a lot of decent PvPers. Many help newbs rather than PK them. Many do things for players to further the game they play. The real issue is that whatever the percentage of jerks in the PvP community, they are VERY active because they are...well, they're jerks.
To your last paragraph, what's wrong with it is that it makes PvE'ers lower class customers.
It's that simple.
THAT mentality is what is wrong. Not the game. The mentality that YOU are a lesser class customer because YOU prefer a different gaming style than the game provides. It would be quite different if the game CHANGED and added a PvP focus, but when you join a game that has PvP and the game says they want to incentivize risk/rewards... you are no lesser a customer than the next guy. You actually just display a high level of entitlement in wanting a game to change from what they sold.
It's the same thought pattern that has lead us to "forced grouping" so that "solo MMOPG players" don't feel like second class players. Those same "groupers" get better rewards than the "solo" players and that's so unfair... I pay my $15 (ha ha likely F2P) just like they do so I should get all the same content they do. And their grouping gets the best gear which lets them even do better solo content!
Same discussion at the end of the day.
I think its your logic that is flawed. First off, what you are saying is you cant complain about anything unless the manufacturer materially lied or changed the product LOL.
Sorry thats completely BS.
Almost all of these PVP games would completely collapse in population without the PVE'ers. This is why its OBVIOUS they are suckering in PVE players.
The reverse is also true, if a game completely bones over PVPers then they can complain.
Your bad logic that if a game has any PVP at all, then its completely fine to bone over PVE'ers, and they should just suck it up, is completely wrong and its you that is showing a high level of entitlement.
I bunk you should re-read what I actually posted
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
To your last paragraph, what's wrong with it is that it makes PvE'ers lower class customers.
It's that simple.
THAT mentality is what is wrong. Not the game. The mentality that YOU are a lesser class customer because YOU prefer a different gaming style than the game provides. It would be quite different if the game CHANGED and added a PvP focus, but when you join a game that has PvP and the game says they want to incentivize risk/rewards... you are no lesser a customer than the next guy. You actually just display a high level of entitlement in wanting a game to change from what they sold.
It's the same thought pattern that has lead us to "forced grouping" so that "solo MMOPG players" don't feel like second class players. Those same "groupers" get better rewards than the "solo" players and that's so unfair... I pay my $15 (ha ha likely F2P) just like they do so I should get all the same content they do. And their grouping gets the best gear which lets them even do better solo content!
Same discussion at the end of the day.
No, the fact remains that what I said is true. That's a problem for PvEers, no matter how you slice it. The issue is that PvEers go into that game thinking all is well because PvP is separate, but over time they start to realize they are getting the short end of the stick.
Soloing is a different topic, and can be a lot more complicated, IMO. A lot more depends on how a game is set up for it.
If they were misled and told “PvE is separate” and it’s not, then you do not have a game mechanics problem but a communication one. Either the customer misunderstood or the developer lied. That’s quite different than joining a game that says there is PvE and PvP and the rewards scale with risk.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Once again, if a game has pvp that can affect a mostly pve player it’s a pvp game. Don’t play it and problem solved.
I totally agree. Furthermore, game publishers should boldly publicize this issue before they sell their games, just so there's no misunderstanding. Right?
lol
Yeah, we know that's not going to happen. Having said that, there's not a game out there that hasn't mentioned "pvp."
Writing is "on the box." If a person doesn't want a pvp game then great. They shouldn't play it. Not hard to find out.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To your last paragraph, what's wrong with it is that it makes PvE'ers lower class customers.
It's that simple.
THAT mentality is what is wrong. Not the game. The mentality that YOU are a lesser class customer because YOU prefer a different gaming style than the game provides. It would be quite different if the game CHANGED and added a PvP focus, but when you join a game that has PvP and the game says they want to incentivize risk/rewards... you are no lesser a customer than the next guy. You actually just display a high level of entitlement in wanting a game to change from what they sold.
It's the same thought pattern that has lead us to "forced grouping" so that "solo MMOPG players" don't feel like second class players. Those same "groupers" get better rewards than the "solo" players and that's so unfair... I pay my $15 (ha ha likely F2P) just like they do so I should get all the same content they do. And their grouping gets the best gear which lets them even do better solo content!
Same discussion at the end of the day.
No, the fact remains that what I said is true. That's a problem for PvEers, no matter how you slice it. The issue is that PvEers go into that game thinking all is well because PvP is separate, but over time they start to realize they are getting the short end of the stick.
Soloing is a different topic, and can be a lot more complicated, IMO. A lot more depends on how a game is set up for it.
If they were misled and told “PvE is separate” and it’s not, then you do not have a game mechanics problem but a communication one. Either the customer misunderstood or the developer lied. That’s quite different than joining a game that says there is PvE and PvP and the rewards scale with risk.
What does "rewards scale with risk" mean? Most gamers go into any game thinking there's going to be an attempt to "play fair" by the Developers.
Then they find out that it's not fair at all. In fact, they often can't get those "special rewards" at all (or much more rarely) unless they buy them from a PvPer, at exorbitant prices.
To your last paragraph, what's wrong with it is that it makes PvE'ers lower class customers.
It's that simple.
THAT mentality is what is wrong. Not the game. The mentality that YOU are a lesser class customer because YOU prefer a different gaming style than the game provides. It would be quite different if the game CHANGED and added a PvP focus, but when you join a game that has PvP and the game says they want to incentivize risk/rewards... you are no lesser a customer than the next guy. You actually just display a high level of entitlement in wanting a game to change from what they sold.
It's the same thought pattern that has lead us to "forced grouping" so that "solo MMOPG players" don't feel like second class players. Those same "groupers" get better rewards than the "solo" players and that's so unfair... I pay my $15 (ha ha likely F2P) just like they do so I should get all the same content they do. And their grouping gets the best gear which lets them even do better solo content!
Same discussion at the end of the day.
I think its your logic that is flawed. First off, what you are saying is you cant complain about anything unless the manufacturer materially lied or changed the product LOL.
Sorry thats completely BS.
Almost all of these PVP games would completely collapse in population without the PVE'ers. This is why its OBVIOUS they are suckering in PVE players.
The reverse is also true, if a game completely bones over PVPers then they can complain.
Your bad logic that if a game has any PVP at all, then its completely fine to bone over PVE'ers, and they should just suck it up, is completely wrong and its you that is showing a high level of entitlement.
Your logic is flawed. If a person only wants pve then they shouldn't play a pvp game. Not sure where the issue is.
Well lets flip it, if a game has any PVE at all then its PVE game. I guess there are no PVP games that exist.
Round and round we go. Dumb arguement, both games can have any amount of either. People can ask for fair treatment.
Diablo III has PVP, I guess you think thats a PVP game too then. Lets get real.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Once again, if a game has pvp that can affect a mostly pve player it’s a pvp game. Don’t play it and problem solved.
I totally agree. Furthermore, game publishers should boldly publicize this issue before they sell their games, just so there's no misunderstanding. Right?
lol
Yeah, we know that's not going to happen. Having said that, there's not a game out there that hasn't mentioned "pvp."
Writing is "on the box." If a person doesn't want a pvp game then great. They shouldn't play it. Not hard to find out.
Naw, then I would have missed DAOC, which did it mostly right. Heck, I eventually spent more time on its FFA PVP server Mordred than I did on the blue servers.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
To your last paragraph, what's wrong with it is that it makes PvE'ers lower class customers.
It's that simple.
THAT mentality is what is wrong. Not the game. The mentality that YOU are a lesser class customer because YOU prefer a different gaming style than the game provides. It would be quite different if the game CHANGED and added a PvP focus, but when you join a game that has PvP and the game says they want to incentivize risk/rewards... you are no lesser a customer than the next guy. You actually just display a high level of entitlement in wanting a game to change from what they sold.
It's the same thought pattern that has lead us to "forced grouping" so that "solo MMOPG players" don't feel like second class players. Those same "groupers" get better rewards than the "solo" players and that's so unfair... I pay my $15 (ha ha likely F2P) just like they do so I should get all the same content they do. And their grouping gets the best gear which lets them even do better solo content!
Same discussion at the end of the day.
No, the fact remains that what I said is true. That's a problem for PvEers, no matter how you slice it. The issue is that PvEers go into that game thinking all is well because PvP is separate, but over time they start to realize they are getting the short end of the stick.
Soloing is a different topic, and can be a lot more complicated, IMO. A lot more depends on how a game is set up for it.
If they were misled and told “PvE is separate” and it’s not, then you do not have a game mechanics problem but a communication one. Either the customer misunderstood or the developer lied. That’s quite different than joining a game that says there is PvE and PvP and the rewards scale with risk.
I think Aion did exactly that. Misled their players in making them think you could go anywhere on the map without having to PvP. However they created bottlenecks in the map so you were constantly camped at the entries by players. Not the best look but hey they need sheep.... baaaaaa.... like me. I got mad I paid money for that game and when I left it I left with a lesson of never trusting developers' claims in PvP games ever again. Liars one and all.
Once again, if a game has pvp that can affect a mostly pve player it’s a pvp game. Don’t play it and problem solved.
I totally agree. Furthermore, game publishers should boldly publicize this issue before they sell their games, just so there's no misunderstanding. Right?
lol
To be fair what happens is they try to appeal to every player at once, that is what MMORPGs are best at. A mix of gameplay, some of which you will find in this or that game but not all together. This obviously is going to cause some stress as not all these systems are perfectly compatible. That is why I favour realm v realm, keep PvP in separate zones. But as we know appealing to every player at once has also helped lead to the downfall of the genre where more than anywhere else the gameplay is tricky to balance.
But yes they don't like to advertise how much PvP there will be or it will put of the PvE players. Likewise they don't like to advertise how limited the PvP is when you have the likes of an arena or the PvP players could be put of.
To your last paragraph, what's wrong with it is that it makes PvE'ers lower class customers.
It's that simple.
THAT mentality is what is wrong. Not the game. The mentality that YOU are a lesser class customer because YOU prefer a different gaming style than the game provides. It would be quite different if the game CHANGED and added a PvP focus, but when you join a game that has PvP and the game says they want to incentivize risk/rewards... you are no lesser a customer than the next guy. You actually just display a high level of entitlement in wanting a game to change from what they sold.
It's the same thought pattern that has lead us to "forced grouping" so that "solo MMOPG players" don't feel like second class players. Those same "groupers" get better rewards than the "solo" players and that's so unfair... I pay my $15 (ha ha likely F2P) just like they do so I should get all the same content they do. And their grouping gets the best gear which lets them even do better solo content!
Same discussion at the end of the day.
I think its your logic that is flawed. First off, what you are saying is you cant complain about anything unless the manufacturer materially lied or changed the product LOL.
Sorry thats completely BS.
Almost all of these PVP games would completely collapse in population without the PVE'ers. This is why its OBVIOUS they are suckering in PVE players.
The reverse is also true, if a game completely bones over PVPers then they can complain.
Your bad logic that if a game has any PVP at all, then its completely fine to bone over PVE'ers, and they should just suck it up, is completely wrong and its you that is showing a high level of entitlement.
Your logic is flawed. If a person only wants pve then they shouldn't play a pvp game. Not sure where the issue is.
Well lets flip it, if a game has any PVE at all then its PVE game. I guess there are no PVP games that exist.
Round and round we go. Dumb arguement, both games can have any amount of either. People can ask for fair treatment.
Diablo III has PVP, I guess you think thats a PVP game too then. Lets get real.
That's sort of ridiculous.
It's more subtle than that.
If pvp affects a pve player by keeping them from an area or opening them up to be ganked and they can't do anything about it then for all intent and purposes, it's a pvp game to them, regardless of pve opportunities.
I'm not talking about a game officially being a "pve/pvp" game but how the game play affects the pve player.
If a pve player cannot escape pvp then the game is a pvp "to them" and they should not play it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To your last paragraph, what's wrong with it is that it makes PvE'ers lower class customers.
It's that simple.
THAT mentality is what is wrong. Not the game. The mentality that YOU are a lesser class customer because YOU prefer a different gaming style than the game provides. It would be quite different if the game CHANGED and added a PvP focus, but when you join a game that has PvP and the game says they want to incentivize risk/rewards... you are no lesser a customer than the next guy. You actually just display a high level of entitlement in wanting a game to change from what they sold.
It's the same thought pattern that has lead us to "forced grouping" so that "solo MMOPG players" don't feel like second class players. Those same "groupers" get better rewards than the "solo" players and that's so unfair... I pay my $15 (ha ha likely F2P) just like they do so I should get all the same content they do. And their grouping gets the best gear which lets them even do better solo content!
Same discussion at the end of the day.
No, the fact remains that what I said is true. That's a problem for PvEers, no matter how you slice it. The issue is that PvEers go into that game thinking all is well because PvP is separate, but over time they start to realize they are getting the short end of the stick.
Soloing is a different topic, and can be a lot more complicated, IMO. A lot more depends on how a game is set up for it.
If they were misled and told “PvE is separate” and it’s not, then you do not have a game mechanics problem but a communication one. Either the customer misunderstood or the developer lied. That’s quite different than joining a game that says there is PvE and PvP and the rewards scale with risk.
I think Aion did exactly that. Misled their players in making them think you could go anywhere on the map without having to PvP. However they created bottlenecks in the map so you were constantly camped at the entries by players. Not the best look but hey they need sheep.... baaaaaa.... like me. I got mad I paid money for that game and when I left it I left with a lesson of never trusting developers' claims in PvP games ever again. Liars one and all.
Aion did exactly that. It was so disgusting. In every interview someone would ask if they could just play pve and not have anything to do with pvp and the answer was always "you can choose to play how you want, if you like pve, do pve, if you like pvp do pvp."
It was so obvious that they skirted the issue. It felt like something the managers told them to say.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To your last paragraph, what's wrong with it is that it makes PvE'ers lower class customers.
It's that simple.
THAT mentality is what is wrong. Not the game. The mentality that YOU are a lesser class customer because YOU prefer a different gaming style than the game provides. It would be quite different if the game CHANGED and added a PvP focus, but when you join a game that has PvP and the game says they want to incentivize risk/rewards... you are no lesser a customer than the next guy. You actually just display a high level of entitlement in wanting a game to change from what they sold.
It's the same thought pattern that has lead us to "forced grouping" so that "solo MMOPG players" don't feel like second class players. Those same "groupers" get better rewards than the "solo" players and that's so unfair... I pay my $15 (ha ha likely F2P) just like they do so I should get all the same content they do. And their grouping gets the best gear which lets them even do better solo content!
Same discussion at the end of the day.
No, the fact remains that what I said is true. That's a problem for PvEers, no matter how you slice it. The issue is that PvEers go into that game thinking all is well because PvP is separate, but over time they start to realize they are getting the short end of the stick.
Soloing is a different topic, and can be a lot more complicated, IMO. A lot more depends on how a game is set up for it.
If they were misled and told “PvE is separate” and it’s not, then you do not have a game mechanics problem but a communication one. Either the customer misunderstood or the developer lied. That’s quite different than joining a game that says there is PvE and PvP and the rewards scale with risk.
What does "rewards scale with risk" mean? Most gamers go into any game thinking there's going to be an attempt to "play fair" by the Developers.
Then they find out that it's not fair at all. In fact, they often can't get those "special rewards" at all (or much more rarely) unless they buy them from a PvPer, at exorbitant prices.
I think it's self explanatory. The more dangerous the area or task you complete, the better the rewards.
And again, this is EXACTLY the same as the soloers complaining about groups getting access to better loot.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If pvp affects a pve player by keeping them from an area or opening them up to be ganked and they can't do anything about it then for all intent and purposes, it's a pvp game to them, regardless of pve opportunities.
I'm not talking about a game officially being a "pve/pvp" game but how the game play affects the pve player.
If a pve player cannot escape pvp then the game is a pvp "to them" and they should not play it.
Yeah you act like every player knows every single mechanic thats in every single game LOL. How can they possibly know all this ahead of time.
I played DAOC and that was perfectly fine for the most part. Its one of my favorite games.
Most gamers are not going to know exactly how much the games lean into hooking up the PVP players. Heck even in PVP games some lean toward advantages to the superhardcore pvp players.
Nobody will know until they are playing it, and usually not until later.
If people took your advice then all the PVP would be dead. So clearly dev teams for PVP MMO's are relying on PVE players to some degree.
If pvp affects a pve player by keeping them from an area or opening them up to be ganked and they can't do anything about it then for all intent and purposes, it's a pvp game to them, regardless of pve opportunities.
I'm not talking about a game officially being a "pve/pvp" game but how the game play affects the pve player.
If a pve player cannot escape pvp then the game is a pvp "to them" and they should not play it.
Yeah you act like every player knows every single mechanic thats in every single game LOL. How can they possibly know all this ahead of time.
I played DAOC and that was perfectly fine for the most part. Its one of my favorite games.
Most gamers are not going to know exactly how much the games lean into hooking up the PVP players. Heck even in PVP games some lean toward advantages to the superhardcore pvp players.
Nobody will know until they are playing it, and usually not until later.
If people took your advice then all the PVP would be dead. So clearly dev teams for PVP MMO's are relying on PVE players to some degree.
Wait, what? You see a game, you go online and you find out.
Heck, the very first mmorpg I played, and played quite seriously was Lineage 2. As I've mentioned elsewhere on this site (probably more than once over the years) I wanted to play a game that "continued," a game where, even if if I learned and played the heck out of it, would still be updated continually with new content.
So to Everquest I went! Ha! Hardly. I kept going to video game sections and I'd have the Everquest box in hand but it looked horrible. I couldn't get myself to buy it.
Then, I saw the Lineage 2 box.
It looked amazing, had sieges and was stylish as heck. However, other than the box info, I knew nothing about it. So ... I went online and I read. I read articles and I read a few reviews.
Going in I knew it would eventually become very "grindy." First time I ever saw that word. I also learned that I would most likely be killed by other players. Again, and again, and again.
I figured that the grind I could handle, both in money and levels. But getting digitally murdered over and over? Not being able to take on higher level characters? Well, so much for me finding a new and different type of game.
But I went in anyway just to see what such a game would be like. I knew I was going to be fodder and that at some point any type of progression would slow down to more than a crawl.
But you know what? The first time I left Dark Elf Village and was surrounded by players I expected "it" from any direction. Only "it" never came. It wasn't until my second day when I was killed by a red. Then I went out and *gasp* killed the red!
By the end of the 1st week high levels were camping at the main entrance. So I, along with the other low levels snuck out (another entrance? Can't remember) and ran for our lives. It was horrifying and thrilling and a heck of a lot of fun. All this in 2003.
In today's world of every little detail covered before a game is released, by you-tubers, news sites and what developers share before launch, it's so easy for someone to look at a game and decide if it's something they will hate or they will like.
And maybe they'll realize they hate it but curiosity will drive them to just see. For a week. No more, just a week. And they might stay for several years because in the end they discovered something they didn't know they'd love.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
In today's world of every little detail covered before a game is released, by you-tubers, news sites and what developers share before launch, it's so easy for someone to look at a game and decide if it's something they will hate or they will like.
LOL how sad that you have to watch every single detail in videos before you play a game.
Sorry I dont play like that. Learning is half the fun. I occassionally will go online for research if I am really stuck or trying to do something simple, but I dont linger on spoilers videos.
I guess different people roll different ways. Some want to watch somone else play the entire game for them, where everything is perfectly handed to them. Have fun with that.
There are people out there who are insecure and the only way they can feel any validation of who they are is to win over others even though there is no challenge.
This is not to include those who do beat lower level players as part of a game but then move on.
I think pretty much everyone on the forum agrees; however, I'm trying to figure out how such obvious foolishness became mainstream.
One chestnut I've had to shoot down over at Fractured was the idea player killers are good for the economy. It seems to make sense on the surface, they're pulling gold/goods out of the economy - until you realize the loot doesn't leave the economy, it is only transferred.
The one I wrestle with the most is the "Risk vs. Reward" claim where they try to get high end resources exclusive to PvP zones or the like. I know the logic is flawed, but it's hard to put into words.
Bullying is common enough in the real world where there are potential meaningful negative repercussions. In any environment with far less in the way of constraint and consequence it makes sense that it would be even more present.
To your last paragraph, what's wrong with it is that it makes PvE'ers lower class customers.
It's that simple.
THAT mentality is what is wrong. Not the game. The mentality that YOU are a lesser class customer because YOU prefer a different gaming style than the game provides. It would be quite different if the game CHANGED and added a PvP focus, but when you join a game that has PvP and the game says they want to incentivize risk/rewards... you are no lesser a customer than the next guy. You actually just display a high level of entitlement in wanting a game to change from what they sold.
It's the same thought pattern that has lead us to "forced grouping" so that "solo MMOPG players" don't feel like second class players. Those same "groupers" get better rewards than the "solo" players and that's so unfair... I pay my $15 (ha ha likely F2P) just like they do so I should get all the same content they do. And their grouping gets the best gear which lets them even do better solo content!
Same discussion at the end of the day.
No, the fact remains that what I said is true. That's a problem for PvEers, no matter how you slice it. The issue is that PvEers go into that game thinking all is well because PvP is separate, but over time they start to realize they are getting the short end of the stick.
Soloing is a different topic, and can be a lot more complicated, IMO. A lot more depends on how a game is set up for it.
If they were misled and told “PvE is separate” and it’s not, then you do not have a game mechanics problem but a communication one. Either the customer misunderstood or the developer lied. That’s quite different than joining a game that says there is PvE and PvP and the rewards scale with risk.
What does "rewards scale with risk" mean? Most gamers go into any game thinking there's going to be an attempt to "play fair" by the Developers.
Then they find out that it's not fair at all. In fact, they often can't get those "special rewards" at all (or much more rarely) unless they buy them from a PvPer, at exorbitant prices.
I think it's self explanatory. The more dangerous the area or task you complete, the better the rewards.
And again, this is EXACTLY the same as the soloers complaining about groups getting access to better loot.
There's a huge difference between 2x regular loot /and/ special, uber valuable, resources that you can't get elsewhere.
I'm reluctant to include Solo game play in this discussion because that gets into a lot of various ways to design "solo" game play. Myself, I prefer "solo" to be a challenge, where success is the reward, rather than the loot.
If a game designs "solo" as specific content created for going solo, then it likely does grant players "just as much loot." As well as make the content winnable. That ruins the whole concept, IMO. Other gamers want that, though. It's a design choice for the Devs. But I agree with you that I don't want that in a game that I play.
So does my idea of going Solo mean that I'm a second class customer? Not in my mind because I get that thrilling game play, and it's not about just any loot I might get away with. Besides, I don't want to solo exclusively, I like playing with others too. However, "to each their own", I guess.
Once again, if a game has pvp that can affect a mostly pve player it’s a pvp game. Don’t play it and problem solved.
To me any game with PvE and entirely avoidable PvP is a PvE game, even if my refusal to do PvP puts me at a disadvantage.
In such cases I consider the cost of that disadvantage as the price of my comfort. There would of course have to a be a specific reason I wanted to play that game rather than one where PvP could be avoided at no cost.
There's a huge difference between 2x regular loot /and/ special, uber valuable, resources that you can't get elsewhere.
Maybe I am asking too much out of devs.
But why cant devs just put specific loot that helps players to do those activities in the zones where they need it? Also allow people to switch gear sets easily.
I bet even if if you do that @Brainy there will be players who say the loot isn't the reason they want to do the content. They just want to play the whole game solo if possible. We all know who I am referring to right?
I bet even if if you do that @Brainy there will be players who say the loot isn't the reason they want to do the content. They just want to play the whole game solo if possible. We all know who I am referring to right?
Yes, thats true, you cant please everyone. But you can please alot of people. The problem is many of these games are suffering from low populations because they dont appeal to enough players. So obviously they need to fix that problem.
In today's world of every little detail covered before a game is released, by you-tubers, news sites and what developers share before launch, it's so easy for someone to look at a game and decide if it's something they will hate or they will like.
LOL how sad that you have to watch every single detail in videos before you play a game.
Sorry I dont play like that. Learning is half the fun. I occassionally will go online for research if I am really stuck or trying to do something simple, but I dont linger on spoilers videos.
I guess different people roll different ways. Some want to watch somone else play the entire game for them, where everything is perfectly handed to them. Have fun with that.
We aren't really talking about "every little detail". We are talking about PvP. And if I was such a PvE fanatic that having PvP touch me would ruin the game I would take the 30 seconds to learn that.
For me that detail is P2W and lootboxes. Since I know those are dealbreakers for me I take the minute to google before I buy a game. If I don't, then that's on me.
Now if you feel a developer lies, thats a different story, but most games are pretty upfront that there is PvP in their game and what the benefits of participating are.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There's a huge difference between 2x regular loot /and/ special, uber valuable, resources that you can't get elsewhere.
Maybe I am asking too much out of devs.
But why cant devs just put specific loot that helps players to do those activities in the zones where they need it? Also allow people to switch gear sets easily.
Examples
PVP - In areas drop PVP focused gear.
Versatility gear
Total Health/Stam increase
Burst damage
Resistances to burst damage
Shield spells
Life taps or small self heals
CC escape mechanisms
Crit increases
PVE Groups (Group dungeons, raids or bosses)
Specific skill line increases
Group damage spells
Slow Health/Stam/Mana regens in combat over time
Improved mob debuffs
Resistances
AOE CC improvements
Group heal increases
Group buffs
Group synergies
Dots and bleeds increases
Penetration increases
PVE Solo (Open world, solo dungeons)
Fast after battle stam/health/mana regen
Defense improvements
Single target CC increases
Ranged mob snare added onto spells buffs
Movement speed increases
Teleport short distance buffs
Self buffs
Self heals
Self abilities
Your premise would have destroyed what I feel was the best game I ever played.. DAoC.
I don't care if some games are made the way you describe, but I think they will die on a vine. You might as well just make 3 separate games at that point.
The key is not to make separate games within the same game. The key it to mesh it all together in a fun way. DAoC did that. Many... even most... have not.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'd say most people would consider those guys to be arseholes.
Yup! Huge fucking Assholes, no doubt with a million Instagram / tiktok / Twitch followers that keep them going, trying to be bigger and bigger assholes for more likes and views, cheered by the same kinds of shits that dream of a time that they might too be able to be the same level of asshole!
Reality of our world
Is what it is.
Devs see this and think "How can I make money off those assholes?"
and lo' a lot of shitty pvp games get made.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
Many do things for players to further the game they play.
The real issue is that whatever the percentage of jerks in the PvP community, they are VERY active because they are...well, they're jerks.
Once upon a time....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If they were misled and told “PvE is separate” and it’s not, then you do not have a game mechanics problem but a communication one. Either the customer misunderstood or the developer lied. That’s quite different than joining a game that says there is PvE and PvP and the rewards scale with risk.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Most gamers go into any game thinking there's going to be an attempt to "play fair" by the Developers.
Then they find out that it's not fair at all. In fact, they often can't get those "special rewards" at all (or much more rarely) unless they buy them from a PvPer, at exorbitant prices.
Once upon a time....
Round and round we go. Dumb arguement, both games can have any amount of either. People can ask for fair treatment.
Diablo III has PVP, I guess you think thats a PVP game too then. Lets get real.
So in the end, the PVEers may lose the battles but ultimately win the war.
We play to crush!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But yes they don't like to advertise how much PvP there will be or it will put of the PvE players. Likewise they don't like to advertise how limited the PvP is when you have the likes of an arena or the PvP players could be put of.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And again, this is EXACTLY the same as the soloers complaining about groups getting access to better loot.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yeah you act like every player knows every single mechanic thats in every single game LOL. How can they possibly know all this ahead of time.
I played DAOC and that was perfectly fine for the most part. Its one of my favorite games.
Most gamers are not going to know exactly how much the games lean into hooking up the PVP players. Heck even in PVP games some lean toward advantages to the superhardcore pvp players.
Nobody will know until they are playing it, and usually not until later.
If people took your advice then all the PVP would be dead. So clearly dev teams for PVP MMO's are relying on PVE players to some degree.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
LOL how sad that you have to watch every single detail in videos before you play a game.
Sorry I dont play like that. Learning is half the fun. I occassionally will go online for research if I am really stuck or trying to do something simple, but I dont linger on spoilers videos.
I guess different people roll different ways. Some want to watch somone else play the entire game for them, where everything is perfectly handed to them. Have fun with that.
Bullying is common enough in the real world where there are potential meaningful negative repercussions. In any environment with far less in the way of constraint and consequence it makes sense that it would be even more present.
/and/
special, uber valuable, resources that you can't get elsewhere.
I'm reluctant to include Solo game play in this discussion because that gets into a lot of various ways to design "solo" game play.
Myself, I prefer "solo" to be a challenge, where success is the reward, rather than the loot.
If a game designs "solo" as specific content created for going solo, then it likely does grant players "just as much loot." As well as make the content winnable. That ruins the whole concept, IMO.
Other gamers want that, though. It's a design choice for the Devs. But I agree with you that I don't want that in a game that I play.
So does my idea of going Solo mean that I'm a second class customer? Not in my mind because I get that thrilling game play, and it's not about just any loot I might get away with.
Besides, I don't want to solo exclusively, I like playing with others too.
However, "to each their own", I guess.
Once upon a time....
To me any game with PvE and entirely avoidable PvP is a PvE game, even if my refusal to do PvP puts me at a disadvantage.
In such cases I consider the cost of that disadvantage as the price of my comfort. There would of course have to a be a specific reason I wanted to play that game rather than one where PvP could be avoided at no cost.
But why cant devs just put specific loot that helps players to do those activities in the zones where they need it?
Also allow people to switch gear sets easily.
Examples
PVP - In areas drop PVP focused gear.
PVE Groups (Group dungeons, raids or bosses)
PVE Solo (Open world, solo dungeons)
For me that detail is P2W and lootboxes. Since I know those are dealbreakers for me I take the minute to google before I buy a game. If I don't, then that's on me.
Now if you feel a developer lies, thats a different story, but most games are pretty upfront that there is PvP in their game and what the benefits of participating are.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't care if some games are made the way you describe, but I think they will die on a vine. You might as well just make 3 separate games at that point.
The key is not to make separate games within the same game. The key it to mesh it all together in a fun way. DAoC did that. Many... even most... have not.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Reality of our world
Is what it is.
Devs see this and think "How can I make money off those assholes?"
and lo' a lot of shitty pvp games get made.