Amaranthar said: To your last paragraph, what's wrong with it is that it makes PvE'ers lower class customers.
You have a valid point of feeling like a second class citizen.
In a game where a PvPer, or Raider, or whatever group of people get the best loot, those that do not do or enjoy that content will in fact always feel as if the game is really not the right game for them, even if they enjoy the other parts of it, there will always be that feeling of being left out
and they are 100% correct!
Now, since I am of the belief of a game targeting a specific group of players, I personally do not have an issue with a game having a direct group they want to cater to, be it PvPers, or Group Content, or whatever, their game is built from the ground up to be all about that Demographic, and truth is, everyone else is in fact a second class citizen to them, they are not who the Devs and Studio are seeking to appease
Simple as that.
Stay
Leave
The Studio does not care, because they didn't care if you showed up to begin with if you are not their target audience.
Now, the Studio/Devs also have to square with the fact those players will be reluctant to spend money on their game or stay around, and as long as they fine with not attracting/making money off those other groups of players, everything is all well and good
But at the end of the day, those players that feel the game is not really for them, are 100% correct, the game is not, and that is also something the player will have to square with, they are not the demographic that the studio gives a damn about
Is what it is.
The thing is, some companies come to realize a few things after the game launches
The first often being, those other players, those "Second Class Players" that they at first did not give a damn about, are more plentiful and profitable then their intended target demographic
This often leads to the people who they borrowed money from to make the game, telling them, they really can't afford to lose that extra income
and that's when all the drama and bullshit starts
Because, you have a game studio that never had that group in mind when it came to making their game, now trying to jiggle them in a way that does not make them feel like they are second class shit that is being jiggled in
It does not work, in fact, I can't think of a game where that ever worked.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Once again, if a game has pvp that can affect a mostly pve player it’s a pvp game. Don’t play it and problem solved.
To me any game with PvE and entirely avoidable PvP is a PvE game, even if my refusal to do PvP puts me at a disadvantage.
In such cases I consider the cost of that disadvantage as the price of my comfort. There would of course have to a be a specific reason I wanted to play that game rather than one where PvP could be avoided at no cost.
EVE Online is a good example. Lacking any other good options for a single universe, sandbox style space sim I played EVE for 10 years even though the PVP side of it I could have largely done without, especially the ganking part.
I love a good fleet fight when I'm sitting in my T3 cruiser (even though I lose a lot) but getting 3B in ISK of ore suicide ganked in my hauler while in .9 Hi-Sec space 1 hop from the marketplace, not so much.
Definitely would go back if they "Trammelized" the game world or at least restored the penalties that discouraged suicide ganking back in the earlier days.
Used to be a single gank in .9 or 1.0 damaged a players reputation so badly they couldn't return to safe space until they finished about 4 weeks of steady NPC ship killing in 0.0 space to get back in Concorde's good graces.
Back when I left in 2016 there was a way to obtain "officers tokens" or something on the marketplace that would restore a players reputation almost instantly, so the gankers could be at the ready to kill you again the next day.
This lead to the formation of groups like "the Code" who would extort miners in Hi-Sec into paying for a "license" to stay safe, all in the name of role playing fun.
Of course, paying for the license meant little, more likely than not if the Code showed up in their 10 throwaway cruisers they were going to gank you regardless.
I of course adapted, mining in extremely remote, dead end systems keeping a cheap bait ship a few systems out which they would kill on the way in, giving me advanced warning to pull my main fleet in to a safe port to wait them out.
All very much emergent gameplay, yet very tedious especially for we who were prey and I no longer have interest in such anymore.
But I do miss that universe so will log in once a year or so just to look around for a bit, and leave until the next time.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For me that detail is P2W and lootboxes. Since I know those are dealbreakers for me I take the minute to google before I buy a game. If I don't, then that's on me.
Now if you feel a developer lies, thats a different story, but most games are pretty upfront that there is PvP in their game and what the benefits of participating are.
Please list me the games where the devs are advertising their game is P2W? Is that a new catagory on steam? Am I spelling that right because I cant seem to find it?
P2W and PVP are on a sliding scale, when its implemented it all depends on much and how far the dev team goes with it. Some think cosmetics are p2w, others think any pvp at all is full pvp.
I personally dont like cash shops at all, but I have played games with cash shops and it was fine. When it becomes mandatory to buy things that give you huge advantages then that definetly crosses a line. It just depends how its done, and who is judging as to what their definition will be.
Your premise would have destroyed what I feel was the best game I ever played.. DAoC.
I don't care if some games are made the way you describe, but I think they will die on a vine. You might as well just make 3 separate games at that point.
The key is not to make separate games within the same game. The key it to mesh it all together in a fun way. DAoC did that. Many... even most... have not.
I dont think you have to fully break it up, but you can break it up. In generally most people are not one dimensional. They like to do X a little bit, then do Y a little, then Z etc...
That is what made MMO's so good early on, it brought all these people together.
What you dont need to do is mix XYZ into a mess. You dont need to make your raiding dungeons solo also. You dont need to mix PVE and PVP. When you force people to engage in something because they have no other choice, that is where the problem is.
Most raiders also solo / farming etc.. on their offtime. If you focus on just 1 thing, what do you do in your off time when X activity doesnt have people on you want to play with?
For me that detail is P2W and lootboxes. Since I know those are dealbreakers for me I take the minute to google before I buy a game. If I don't, then that's on me.
Now if you feel a developer lies, thats a different story, but most games are pretty upfront that there is PvP in their game and what the benefits of participating are.
Please list me the games where the devs are advertising their game is P2W? Is that a new catagory on steam? Am I spelling that right because I cant seem to find it?
P2W and PVP are on a sliding scale, when its implemented it all depends on much and how far the dev team goes with it. Some think cosmetics are p2w, others think any pvp at all is full pvp.
I personally dont like cash shops at all, but I have played games with cash shops and it was fine. When it becomes mandatory to buy things that give you huge advantages then that definetly crosses a line. It just depends how it’s done, and who is judging as to what their definition will be.
It’s called monetization and can easily be found for 99% of games. And if you can’t find it then maybe you need to take the hint.
Ive never had a problem finding out if a game is P2W or had lootboxes. But you do you I guess.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
In today's world of every little detail covered before a game is released, by you-tubers, news sites and what developers share before launch, it's so easy for someone to look at a game and decide if it's something they will hate or they will like.
LOL how sad that you have to watch every single detail in videos before you play a game.
Sorry I dont play like that. Learning is half the fun. I occassionally will go online for research if I am really stuck or trying to do something simple, but I dont linger on spoilers videos.
I guess different people roll different ways. Some want to watch somone else play the entire game for them, where everything is perfectly handed to them. Have fun with that.
You're sort of supplying your own narrative there.
In my example above I wasn't at that time a *gasp*, "gamer."
I knew nothing of mmorpg's let alone the what the wider world of video games had to offer. My experience was the original atari and then a few video games after I graduated college. None of them relating to each other relating - Myst > Warcraft (original) Doom > Baldur's > gate (original) Never Winter Nights >Morrowind and then looking into Lineage 2.
I wasn't even inclined to play video games after Myst as I was happy to watch friends play.
What led me to look into mmorpg's was that Morrowind had opened my eyes to games that weren't just about their story and there was a mod in Neverwinter that allowed me to battle an ai opponent.
So I thought it would be interesting to be in an open ended world where I could battle other players. I'll also add that before looking up what mmorpg's were "what" the only information I had about the games I bought came from the box. Never thought to look them up on the internet but then again there wasn't much of an internet back then and I wasn't interested at the time.
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Your premise would have destroyed what I feel was the best game I ever played.. DAoC.
I don't care if some games are made the way you describe, but I think they will die on a vine. You might as well just make 3 separate games at that point.
The key is not to make separate games within the same game. The key it to mesh it all together in a fun way. DAoC did that. Many... even most... have not.
I dont think you have to fully break it up, but you can break it up. In generally most people are not one dimensional. They like to do X a little bit, then do Y a little, then Z etc...
That is what made MMO's so good early on, it brought all these people together.
What you dont need to do is mix XYZ into a mess. You dont need to make your raiding dungeons solo also. You dont need to mix PVE and PVP. When you force people to engage in something because they have no other choice, that is where the problem is.
Most raiders also solo / farming etc.. on their offtime. If you focus on just 1 thing, what do you do in your off time when X activity doesnt have people on you want to play with?
Actually what made a game like DAoC great was the fact that it WASN'T broken up. PvE, PvE and crafting were all very much entwined.
If it were 3 distinct games for PvE, PvP and soloers I think it would have sucked.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
omg how about this, "just took a little bit of curiosity."
It's not like you are moving mountains or digging a ditch or learning a craft. It's just going to where there is news and finding out a bit about the game you want to play.
Sheesh!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
omg how about this, "just took a little bit of curiosity."
It's not like you are moving mountains or digging a ditch or learning a craft. It's just going to where there is news and finding out a bit about the game you want to play.
Sheesh!
No, fuck that, if PvP is an unavoidable integral part of your fucking game, make that shit fucking clear, don't play some coy ass bullshit.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Yeah these games are not transparent at all. Average player didnt know New World end game was going to be for PVP players only. They didnt know that all their PVE crafting areas and housing costs were going to be controlled by PVP players. Give me a break.
Who is saying its easy to find out? People that watch 20 hours of gamplay vidoes before they buy.
The real question is why are these games hiding it... O we know the answer, its because their game cant survive unless they dupe PVE players into playing and hope a few stick around to be targets.
Its kinda like some con artist saleman that tells you, if only you would have read the fine print, it was right there on page 53 paragraph 24 of the contract. Clear as day. You should have read that before you agreed to the oil change. LOL
They know most people who have jobs are not going to read a 53 page contract, anymore than people are going to watch 20 hours of gameplay videos before a stupid game purchase.
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
omg how about this, "just took a little bit of curiosity."
It's not like you are moving mountains or digging a ditch or learning a craft. It's just going to where there is news and finding out a bit about the game you want to play.
Sheesh!
For some… reading the box the game came in or clicking the Features tab on a website is too hard.
Other people take the 30 seconds to click and read the features and are fine. I know which group I fall into.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Now I always go to Reddit and the Steam forums to find out. I ask specifically .
You know Corepunk, they say you can opt out of PvP. So the obvious interpretation is that you can avoid PvP. Well that is not what flagging for no PvP means though in Corepunk. It means you cannot attack others. They can however attack you and get a penalty.
I wouldn't have known that had I not gone to their website and made an account and asked. I decided there and then they should have made that crystal clear and not write nonsense like 'flagging for no PvP' , that it makes no difference to whether another player can attack you was not made clear. The best part was others came and argued it was clear since it was a PvP game.
Like I was fully prepared for Archeage because they explained their system in detail. So I played and I travelled when the areas became non PvP. There, regions in the game constantly change from peaceful to war over hours in a day. I even made goods and transported them over peaceful and slightly PvP where it is not yet fully PvP to make it to the broker.
Bless Online didn't make it clear that the item you buy to make yourself immune wore off and that you need to keep buying it and that it was with real money.
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
omg how about this, "just took a little bit of curiosity."
It's not like you are moving mountains or digging a ditch or learning a craft. It's just going to where there is news and finding out a bit about the game you want to play.
Sheesh!
No, fuck that, if PvP is an unavoidable integral part of your fucking game, make that shit fucking clear, don't play some coy ass bullshit.
Don't know what to tell you Ungood, the world isn't always fair. Best you learn it now before you go out into it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
omg how about this, "just took a little bit of curiosity."
It's not like you are moving mountains or digging a ditch or learning a craft. It's just going to where there is news and finding out a bit about the game you want to play.
Sheesh!
No, fuck that, if PvP is an unavoidable integral part of your fucking game, make that shit fucking clear, don't play some coy ass bullshit.
Don't know what to tell you Ungood, the world isn't always fair. Best you learn it now before you go out into it.
You can start by not defending the bullshit
Unless you like that kind of bullshit done to you, which is a mindset I will never fucking understand to be honest, nor will I respect.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Now I always go to Reddit and the Steam forums to find out. I ask specifically .
You know Corepunk, they say you can opt out of PvP. So the obvious interpretation is that you can avoid PvP. Well that is not what flagging for no PvP means though in Corepunk. It means you cannot attack others. They can however attack you and get a penalty.
I wouldn't have known that had I not gone to their website and made an account and asked. I decided there and then they should have made that crystal clear and not write nonsense like 'flagging for no PvP' , that it makes no difference to whether another player can attack you was not made clear. The best part was others came and argued it was clear since it was a PvP game.
Like I was fully prepared for Archeage because they explained their system in detail. So I played and I travelled when the areas became non PvP. There, regions in the game constantly change from peaceful to war over hours in a day. I even made goods and transported them over peaceful and slightly PvP where it is not yet fully PvP to make it to the broker.
Bless Online didn't make it clear that the item you buy to make yourself immune wore off and that you need to keep buying it and that it was with real money.
Scumbags one and all!
Exactly!
This is the exact kind of antics by companies that not only get players to lose trust in the companies, but also hate the players that want these kinds of games made to start with.
Their actions are predatory, they are designed to hurt the PvE player, to lie to them, to dupe them into join a game on a false pretense, and the scumbags that defend this antic by these companies are just as much scumbags
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Now I always go to Reddit and the Steam forums to find out. I ask specifically .
You know Corepunk, they say you can opt out of PvP. So the obvious interpretation is that you can avoid PvP. Well that is not what flagging for no PvP means though in Corepunk. It means you cannot attack others. They can however attack you and get a penalty.
I wouldn't have known that had I not gone to their website and made an account and asked. I decided there and then they should have made that crystal clear and not write nonsense like 'flagging for no PvP' , that it makes no difference to whether another player can attack you was not made clear. The best part was others came and argued it was clear since it was a PvP game.
Like I was fully prepared for Archeage because they explained their system in detail. So I played and I travelled when the areas became non PvP. There, regions in the game constantly change from peaceful to war over hours in a day. I even made goods and transported them over peaceful and slightly PvP where it is not yet fully PvP to make it to the broker.
Bless Online didn't make it clear that the item you buy to make yourself immune wore off and that you need to keep buying it and that it was with real money.
Scumbags one and all!
Exactly!
This is the exact kind of antics by companies that not only get players to lose trust in the companies, but also hate the players that want these kinds of games made to start with.
Their actions are predatory, they are designed to hurt the PvE player, to lie to them, to dupe them into join a game on a false pretense, and the scumbags that defend this antic by these companies are just as much scumbags
Yes. You have uncovered the master plan of companies trying to insure their customers hate their products.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
omg how about this, "just took a little bit of curiosity."
It's not like you are moving mountains or digging a ditch or learning a craft. It's just going to where there is news and finding out a bit about the game you want to play.
Sheesh!
No, fuck that, if PvP is an unavoidable integral part of your fucking game, make that shit fucking clear, don't play some coy ass bullshit.
Don't know what to tell you Ungood, the world isn't always fair. Best you learn it now before you go out into it.
You can start by not defending the bullshit
Unless you like that kind of bullshit done to you, which is a mindset I will never fucking understand to be honest, nor will I respect.
Never defended a thing. Just telling you how things are. More worried that "let the buyer beware" was never said to you.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Ungood said: You can start by not defending the bullshit
Unless you like that kind of bullshit done to you, which is a mindset I will never fucking understand to be honest, nor will I respect.
Never defended a thing. Just telling you how things are. More worried that "let the buyer beware" was never said to you.
I said that shit when you were all vomiting out the ass about how you were owed some shit because you took a gamble on Kick Starter, when the company flat out tells you failure is a risk you take, and now you are going to be like "Buyer Beware"
I don't want to hear shit from you going forward about any scam tactics anyone pulls, got that! You want to play that fucking game lets fucking play it!
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Feels like trolling with you two. The topic and discussion was fine but you don't like it so you're goading these guys into frustration. Say what you will but that's what it looks like to me.
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
omg how about this, "just took a little bit of curiosity."
It's not like you are moving mountains or digging a ditch or learning a craft. It's just going to where there is news and finding out a bit about the game you want to play.
Sheesh!
No, fuck that, if PvP is an unavoidable integral part of your fucking game, make that shit fucking clear, don't play some coy ass bullshit.
Don't know what to tell you Ungood, the world isn't always fair. Best you learn it now before you go out into it.
You can start by not defending the bullshit
Unless you like that kind of bullshit done to you, which is a mindset I will never fucking understand to be honest, nor will I respect.
Never defended a thing. Just telling you how things are. More worried that "let the buyer beware" was never said to you.
I've heard that quote many times, but in fact it goes both ways. "Let the seller beware" too, because people have long memories. It used to be, before the modern age of such massive customer bases that the tech age has brought us, that successful businesses absolutely had to adhere to their customer base and their reputation. That still goes, just much less so, because if they lose a few it really doesn't matter anymore.
In this space, gaming, there are a (lot?) of companies who have hurt themselves quite a bit by ignoring that old rule of "The customer is always right." There's been misleading, and forcing the unwanted, and it's a big reason why gaming has taken a downturn.
Never defended a thing. Just telling you how things are. More worried that "let the buyer beware" was never said to you.
I've heard that quote many times, but in fact it goes both ways. "Let the seller beware" too, because people have long memories. It used to be, before the modern age of such massive customer bases that the tech age has brought us, that successful businesses absolutely had to adhere to their customer base and their reputation. That still goes, just much less so, because if they lose a few it really doesn't matter anymore.
In this space, gaming, there are a (lot?) of companies who have hurt themselves quite a bit by ignoring that old rule of "The customer is always right." There's been misleading, and forcing the unwanted, and it's a big reason why gaming has taken a downturn.
Yup, spot on!
And, this brings us right back to these PvP games face fucking the earth on launch, because the people (PvE players) they are trying to trick into trying their game are opting to not even take the risk anymore.
In fact, even if they were to do it really well, a lot of PvE players the second they see any kind of PvP mentioned, at all, on any level, atomically Nope out of the game
Not even willing to try it, or test it out, they see anywhere mentioned that the game is even remotely PvP, and they put that shit back on the shelf and go back to playing something else
When the PvP people ask "Aren't you even going to try it?"
The answer from the PvE players comes back "Nope, been burned before, not worth the time or money to risk getting burned again"
Which makes it all that much harder for a new game coming out that might have an decent system, but you know.. fuck them, is what it is, I guess, right?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
In a game where a PvPer, or Raider, or whatever group of people get the best loot, those that do not do or enjoy that content will in fact always feel as if the game is really not the right game for them, even if they enjoy the other parts of it, there will always be that feeling of being left out
and they are 100% correct!
Now, since I am of the belief of a game targeting a specific group of players, I personally do not have an issue with a game having a direct group they want to cater to, be it PvPers, or Group Content, or whatever, their game is built from the ground up to be all about that Demographic, and truth is, everyone else is in fact a second class citizen to them, they are not who the Devs and Studio are seeking to appease
Simple as that.
Stay
Leave
The Studio does not care, because they didn't care if you showed up to begin with if you are not their target audience.
Now, the Studio/Devs also have to square with the fact those players will be reluctant to spend money on their game or stay around, and as long as they fine with not attracting/making money off those other groups of players, everything is all well and good
But at the end of the day, those players that feel the game is not really for them, are 100% correct, the game is not, and that is also something the player will have to square with, they are not the demographic that the studio gives a damn about
Is what it is.
The thing is, some companies come to realize a few things after the game launches
The first often being, those other players, those "Second Class Players" that they at first did not give a damn about, are more plentiful and profitable then their intended target demographic
This often leads to the people who they borrowed money from to make the game, telling them, they really can't afford to lose that extra income
and that's when all the drama and bullshit starts
Because, you have a game studio that never had that group in mind when it came to making their game, now trying to jiggle them in a way that does not make them feel like they are second class shit that is being jiggled in
It does not work, in fact, I can't think of a game where that ever worked.
I love a good fleet fight when I'm sitting in my T3 cruiser (even though I lose a lot) but getting 3B in ISK of ore suicide ganked in my hauler while in .9 Hi-Sec space 1 hop from the marketplace, not so much.
Definitely would go back if they "Trammelized" the game world or at least restored the penalties that discouraged suicide ganking back in the earlier days.
Used to be a single gank in .9 or 1.0 damaged a players reputation so badly they couldn't return to safe space until they finished about 4 weeks of steady NPC ship killing in 0.0 space to get back in Concorde's good graces.
Back when I left in 2016 there was a way to obtain "officers tokens" or something on the marketplace that would restore a players reputation almost instantly, so the gankers could be at the ready to kill you again the next day.
This lead to the formation of groups like "the Code" who would extort miners in Hi-Sec into paying for a "license" to stay safe, all in the name of role playing fun.
Of course, paying for the license meant little, more likely than not if the Code showed up in their 10 throwaway cruisers they were going to gank you regardless.
I of course adapted, mining in extremely remote, dead end systems keeping a cheap bait ship a few systems out which they would kill on the way in, giving me advanced warning to pull my main fleet in to a safe port to wait them out.
All very much emergent gameplay, yet very tedious especially for we who were prey and I no longer have interest in such anymore.
But I do miss that universe so will log in once a year or so just to look around for a bit, and leave until the next time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Please list me the games where the devs are advertising their game is P2W? Is that a new catagory on steam? Am I spelling that right because I cant seem to find it?
P2W and PVP are on a sliding scale, when its implemented it all depends on much and how far the dev team goes with it. Some think cosmetics are p2w, others think any pvp at all is full pvp.
I personally dont like cash shops at all, but I have played games with cash shops and it was fine. When it becomes mandatory to buy things that give you huge advantages then that definetly crosses a line. It just depends how its done, and who is judging as to what their definition will be.
That is what made MMO's so good early on, it brought all these people together.
What you dont need to do is mix XYZ into a mess. You dont need to make your raiding dungeons solo also. You dont need to mix PVE and PVP. When you force people to engage in something because they have no other choice, that is where the problem is.
Most raiders also solo / farming etc.. on their offtime. If you focus on just 1 thing, what do you do in your off time when X activity doesnt have people on you want to play with?
Ive never had a problem finding out if a game is P2W or had lootboxes. But you do you I guess.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If it were 3 distinct games for PvE, PvP and soloers I think it would have sucked.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Who is saying its easy to find out? People that watch 20 hours of gamplay vidoes before they buy.
The real question is why are these games hiding it... O we know the answer, its because their game cant survive unless they dupe PVE players into playing and hope a few stick around to be targets.
Its kinda like some con artist saleman that tells you, if only you would have read the fine print, it was right there on page 53 paragraph 24 of the contract. Clear as day. You should have read that before you agreed to the oil change. LOL
They know most people who have jobs are not going to read a 53 page contract, anymore than people are going to watch 20 hours of gameplay videos before a stupid game purchase.
Other people take the 30 seconds to click and read the features and are fine. I know which group I fall into.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You know Corepunk, they say you can opt out of PvP. So the obvious interpretation is that you can avoid PvP. Well that is not what flagging for no PvP means though in Corepunk. It means you cannot attack others. They can however attack you and get a penalty.
I wouldn't have known that had I not gone to their website and made an account and asked. I decided there and then they should have made that crystal clear and not write nonsense like 'flagging for no PvP' , that it makes no difference to whether another player can attack you was not made clear. The best part was others came and argued it was clear since it was a PvP game.
Like I was fully prepared for Archeage because they explained their system in detail. So I played and I travelled when the areas became non PvP. There, regions in the game constantly change from peaceful to war over hours in a day. I even made goods and transported them over peaceful and slightly PvP where it is not yet fully PvP to make it to the broker.
Bless Online didn't make it clear that the item you buy to make yourself immune wore off and that you need to keep buying it and that it was with real money.
Scumbags one and all!
Don't know what to tell you Ungood, the world isn't always fair. Best you learn it now before you go out into it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Unless you like that kind of bullshit done to you, which is a mindset I will never fucking understand to be honest, nor will I respect.
This is the exact kind of antics by companies that not only get players to lose trust in the companies, but also hate the players that want these kinds of games made to start with.
Their actions are predatory, they are designed to hurt the PvE player, to lie to them, to dupe them into join a game on a false pretense, and the scumbags that defend this antic by these companies are just as much scumbags
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Never defended a thing. Just telling you how things are. More worried that "let the buyer beware" was never said to you.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't want to hear shit from you going forward about any scam tactics anyone pulls, got that! You want to play that fucking game lets fucking play it!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"Let the seller beware" too, because people have long memories.
It used to be, before the modern age of such massive customer bases that the tech age has brought us, that successful businesses absolutely had to adhere to their customer base and their reputation. That still goes, just much less so, because if they lose a few it really doesn't matter anymore.
In this space, gaming, there are a (lot?) of companies who have hurt themselves quite a bit by ignoring that old rule of "The customer is always right."
There's been misleading, and forcing the unwanted, and it's a big reason why gaming has taken a downturn.
Once upon a time....
And, this brings us right back to these PvP games face fucking the earth on launch, because the people (PvE players) they are trying to trick into trying their game are opting to not even take the risk anymore.
In fact, even if they were to do it really well, a lot of PvE players the second they see any kind of PvP mentioned, at all, on any level, atomically Nope out of the game
Not even willing to try it, or test it out, they see anywhere mentioned that the game is even remotely PvP, and they put that shit back on the shelf and go back to playing something else
When the PvP people ask "Aren't you even going to try it?"
The answer from the PvE players comes back "Nope, been burned before, not worth the time or money to risk getting burned again"
Which makes it all that much harder for a new game coming out that might have an decent system, but you know.. fuck them, is what it is, I guess, right?