The situation with Star Citizen is bound to raise tempers and have people clashing and that's not even taking into account the money put in.
When you consider that some posters have put money in and still hold on to the idea they will get what they paid for and see those who post against the game as inhibiting it's chance of having the best success. Meanwhile...
Others think their money was misspent and may return nothing or an inferior product and those posting favorably are perpetuating more spending on a project which may be doomed. Well the flaming wars are inevitable.
I never put money into a game before it properly launches, I know this is shouting into the wind, but maybe it is best to just wait for the reviews?
Others think their money was misspent and may return nothing or an inferior product and those posting favorably are perpetuating more spending on a project which may be doomed. Well the flaming wars are inevitable.
I get where people like Slapshot are coming from - their complaint about Squadron 42 not coming out after N years is very specific and they bought that right to complain.
I do not get the attacks to other posters though and I roll my eyes at the two-line responses of "baa baa scam" from people with no horse in the race.
I disagree that this is not an issue to someone who might want to come and post about the game. It's not about safety or hard skin. I am pretty hard skinned, but if I saw this thread and I were a SC fan, I would just throw up my hands in the air and leave. Not because I would be offended, but because there is no point.
By allowing such attacks, this community has effectively drowned out anyone who wants to talk about SC, mobile games, blockchain (gasp) games, full-loot games, crowdfunded games and I do not know what else. I even remember a former member (now banned, the irony) calling out the mods to delete any discussion on some of these categories and ban the posters. This behavior is as bad and has the same effect as heavy moderation.
I am unsure what I am supposed to think is not an issue, I was just saying that putting money in has really stirred posters passions? Anyway...
As to what I think is an issue, all the types of games you mentioned have serious issues related to them. We have had staff articles about the issues of SC, Blockchain, and Crowd funded games and for all I know the others you mentioned as well. Bearing that in mind it is not surprising so many posters want to address those issues.
I am not saying the staff are giving us license, just that these concerns are not limited to posters on our forums. I am sure with all the positive posts on the official SC forums things must seem very different but can you not see why elsewhere criticism will be much sharper.
Here is one for you, where is the forum where all these conversations occur in a measured manner? I am not going to except the official (and therefore biassed) forum and the issues with editors in the likes of Reddit and Massively speak for themselves.
Others think their money was misspent and may return nothing or an inferior product and those posting favorably are perpetuating more spending on a project which may be doomed. Well the flaming wars are inevitable.
I get where people like Slapshot are coming from - their complaint about Squadron 42 not coming out after N years is very specific and they bought that right to complain.
I do not get the attacks to other posters though and I roll my eyes at the two-line responses of "baa baa scam" from people with no horse in the race.
I disagree that this is not an issue to someone who might want to come and post about the game. It's not about safety or hard skin. I am pretty hard skinned, but if I saw this thread and I were a SC fan, I would just throw up my hands in the air and leave. Not because I would be offended, but because there is no point.
By allowing such attacks, this community has effectively drowned out anyone who wants to talk about SC, mobile games, blockchain (gasp) games, full-loot games, crowdfunded games and I do not know what else. I even remember a former member (now banned, the irony) calling out the mods to delete any discussion on some of these categories and ban the posters. This behavior is as bad and has the same effect as heavy moderation.
Which is why I mentioned, a few times, that folks should feel free to post an actual thread where they want to discuss something about Star Citizen that appeals to them. Instead, they wait for newsposts which almost ALWAYS mention the long development time, moved goal posts, or ask for our opinions.
Go look at the Star Citizen forum on here. Go look at the actual threads created in the that forum in the last 6 months:
That's it. 3 whole threads and one of those was made by ME when they announced the layoffs. We could go back further but I think there were only 2 more in all the rest of 2023.
So go look particularly at the 2 threads created by Hateful and Max. No real "trolling" at all. Nothing at ALL in those threads that should discourage others from posting similar threads. Again, very, very different from a NewsPost. But when I suggest people go make more of these, some folks see it as an 'attack", because... well... of course they do. And of course, they cannot make threads like Max and Hateful did because "community sux".
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I left massively a long time ago once the staff made it clear, Bree in particular, that they are leftist and have no problem interrupting your regularly scheduled gaming news to spread some incredibly biased socialist propaganda. Plenty of leftists here in the comments but in general the actual staff tend to check their politics at the door when posting about games. I believe in freedom of speech and all that, but I believe a gaming site should stick to gaming. Time and place. Other side of free speech is I can take my business elsewhere and not reward massively with ad clicks which is how they make money. Too be clear I don't want to see incredibly biased right wing propaganda either. I want to read about and discuss games. I'd go to Fox News or CNN if I wanted the incredibly biased politics.
I agree with what you have said, but as we have just had someone banned for posting about politics can we all leave it there? it just a pain finding out someone else has gone.
I left massively a long time ago once the staff made it clear, Bree in particular, that they are leftist and have no problem interrupting your regularly scheduled gaming news to spread some incredibly biased socialist propaganda. Plenty of leftists here in the comments but in general the actual staff tend to check their politics at the door when posting about games. I believe in freedom of speech and all that, but I believe a gaming site should stick to gaming. Time and place. Other side of free speech is I can take my business elsewhere and not reward massively with ad clicks which is how they make money. Too be clear I don't want to see incredibly biased right wing propaganda either. I want to read about and discuss games. I'd go to Fox News or CNN if I wanted the incredibly biased politics.
I do not fear "leftists" or "right wingers", we are all Americans (or citizens of the world) which means I can disagree with others without "hating" them, especially on a game forum where none of this matters.
I don't care to post at MoP because they are not really conversations, rather just people posting their opinions and moving on.
I also dislike the fact Bree and other editors on MoP insist that posters believe like they do, and cancel those who express opinions to the contrary.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1) The disagreement was not directed to you, but to other posts in the thread. I was not clear about that. Apologies.
2) All games have issues - not just those that I mentioned. Screaming to every SC article "scam" and its fans "shills" is the equivalent to screaming at every EQ article "dead" and its fans "dinosaurs" or "care bears". The only difference is that in this site you have more fans of EQ than SC.
3) I would not call what happens here and to similar articles criticism.
4) No where, I agree. And I personally never came to this site expecting something different. Just pointing out the obvious I guess. Massively is much worse, with the editors flaming posters not in line with the site's dogma, calling them trolls and ghost editing. But people should not fool themselves that this is not an echo chamber either - just less so.
Edit: strikethrough above. Too harsh a word now that I think of it. Biased would be more like it. I do not want to paint the whole community just because of some posters. Lots of members are very welcoming here, even when they have opposite opinions on some matters.
I think sometimes our forums can be an echo chamber, any forum or form of social media can be, it is hard to avoid.
So we are bad, but not as bad as the rest. I will take that.
You have made me realise this is partly about my loyalty to the site, the same loyalty I have for my science and other forums. That is founded on quality of the debate and the fact there is a debate. So if a thread is too one sided I can drop out of those threads myself. Do I want to repeat a warning about a game that's been in development for ages, no unless I can make a quip out of it.
Having said that, once again I went on about waiting for games to launch and be reviewed. We all have some beef in gaming, that is one of mine. Bare in mind I used to speak out against preorders before cash shops existed!
I do think we should give new guys a break, let them paddle around in the starter pool before they are thrown into the deep end as it were. To do that some posters are going to have to accept ignoring them, we can't ask people to post supportively about views they oppose.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's a game I really have no interest in...The community here makes me feel as if I am not "good enough" for Star Citizen, that it is only for the elite. The way they boast about how much money they have is really a turn off for me...Plenty of other games to play.
I do think we should give new guys a break, let them paddle around in the starter pool before they are thrown into the deep end as it were. To do that some posters are going to have to accept ignoring them, we can't ask people to post supportively about views they oppose.
Seriously I can't believe you guys are still going on this strawman argument. This isn't about how people should expect only supportive comments. It's rather it should be how people should expect some modicum of civility no matter what their opinion is and that's sorely lacking here in this community lately.
If someone dares go against the current trend that the highly active frequents posters have set they should and can expect to be shouted down, to be flamed and trolled at and to be told to go post elsewhere or make their own thread for soft skinned sissies cause it's all on them.....
....civility should be only in one direction apparently and if you dare mention the community is lacking in this department then by golly expect to be ridden down by the righteous community defenders however if your opinion just happens to align with them then carry on flame on, bully on cause hey you have a right to dissent and forum pvp.
Sure we can't ask people to always have the same opinion as us and that's not what strawhat was really talking about but we should expect them to be civil and we should expect mods to step in and tell peeps to stop the shit posting, like they used to do once upon time...but it seems the TOS and community rules no longer apply or are drastically different now.
It's really not hard to figure out why no one really wants to make a SC thread here and instead now and then takes a chance to post in a news one, you know to give this community a chance to show its true colors.....it's just sad that we all of us collectively fail hard almost every time when this happens.
It's sad when defenders only defend people lopsidedly in a biased manner, cause then IMO they become enablers of that the horrid behavoir we see far too often here.
It's sad cause this has become progressively worse over time since the moderators have decided to go on a permanent vacation and as such we have people thinking trolling and forum pvping like this was reddit is perfectly acceptable.
The only thing I can see is that this is allowed now to try and drum up activity and more views...... sadly all this is why activity and views have gone down the drain in the first place.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Not to sound facetious, but the best way to have conversations about SC that focus on the product itself is to actually have the product itself. I think so long as a game is in active development, then that development will always be discussed, and what's more striking than development that blows way past deadlines while accumulating significant funding? I get that at this point it has all been said and there's nothing new to the criticism, but again that's really because there's nothing particularly new with the status of the game, at least as it pertains to some posters.
Unfortunately, personal attacks are also easier when there are no new arguments to make, whether against those in support of or critical of the game, but that really doesn't add to the conversation. Maybe somebody is focused on the promise of the game and sees the current state as a positive indication of what it will eventually be. That doesn't make them a shill. On the other hand, someone could have a real issue with the lack of accountability in crowd-funded development and view the cycle of building hype to raise funds to build more hype without truly delivering the end product as a scam. Perhaps they're cynical but not necessarily haters. Plenty of those who are critical donated money so they loved what was originally promised.
I think there is a place for and a value in both conversations, the one about the game's design elements and ideas and the one about the issues with crowd-funding, hype, and accountability. I also think there will always be some overlap, especially if discussions about the game design take on an air of praise, since anything noteworthy will inevitably be weighed against its shortcomings. I understand that it feels like any attempt at one conversation gets drowned out by the other, but there really isn't much to do about others' opinions than try to see things from their view and show them yours. Our views can be whatever they are, how we convey those views will ultimately impact the quality of our discussions for better or worse.
I think there is a place for and a value in both conversations, the one about the game's design elements and ideas and the one about the issues with crowd-funding, hype, and accountability. I also think there will always be some overlap, especially if discussions about the game design take on an air of praise, since anything noteworthy will inevitably be weighed against its shortcomings. I understand that it feels like any attempt at one conversation gets drowned out by the other, but there really isn't much to do about others' opinions than try to see things from their view and show them yours.
Our views can be whatever they are, how we convey those views will ultimately impact the quality of our discussions for better or worse.
Indeed.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
It's the popular thing to do hate on the game and call it a scam and just a fancy tech demo but those people spouting that crap are talking out their arses and are just parroting what other people are saying online cause surely if they actually tried the game they would see what you did after giving a spin.
I think of it as the Derek S syndrome.
[--snip--]
Not to single you out, but since we're on the subject of how we discuss, I'd like to point a couple of things out:
A project that collects funds under one premise then fails to deliver, all while continuing to accrue funds and shift goalposts, may come across to many reasonable people as a less than honest scheme. Is it ultimately a scam? I don't know, but their model of doing business is definitely in that grey area. And simply having something to show for it doesn't absolve it from being a scam. It all comes down to the value of the product in exchange for the money that has been accrued. That's a tough one.
Also, the game is currently in alpha. While there isn't a hard rule about what that has to mean, it definitely implies the game systems are in active development. That would be the tech. If those working on the project provide a build for others to access, it is essentially demonstrating the current state of that tech, hence a tech demo. Is it actually that far away from being deployed to prod and released? I don't know what their deployment pipeline looks like. Maybe alpha is prod. Maybe they still need to go to beta and gamma before ultimately releasing. But if they decided to specify that the game is in alpha, it isn't unreasonable to view it as such, even if the tech being demonstrated is impressive.
My point is, people don't have to be talking out of their arses to think either of those things, nor is anyone here able to prove anything. But we all get swept up in our assumptions about others and their motives. Regardless, I do enjoy your posts as well.
It's the popular thing to do hate on the game and call it a scam and just a fancy tech demo but those people spouting that crap are talking out their arses and are just parroting what other people are saying online cause surely if they actually tried the game they would see what you did after giving a spin.
I think of it as the Derek S syndrome.
[--snip--]
...snip...
My point is, people don't have to be talking out of their arses to think either of those things, nor is anyone here able to prove anything. But we all get swept up in our assumptions about others and their motives. Regardless, I do enjoy your posts as well.
The people that are talking out their arse...are the ones that posted here that I know have been following this for a long time and know how it went down.
I was quite clear when I said talking out their arse I meant those saying there is no game and it just a fancy tech demo, you know like we had back in 2013...that's no longer the case and there HAS been significant advances if you consider the whole scope. Also like I said lots of these people have not even checked out the recent developments and are still at the derek smart stage which is like the old 2013 argument that has failed miserably.
That they started out with sq41 as the main game then switched over and left us behind is no doubt very scummy I know cause I was there just like slapshot being an OG sq42 backer myself and was interested mostly only in sq42. Like I told him however is that the majority of backers don't care about sq42 and they voted with their wallets which is why we are in such a situation.
Mensur is a prime example of someone that early on gave them shit and and am not saying they don't deserve any...there lots of things I dislike about SC and think they suck for doing...HOWEVER that doesn't make it a scam in the grand scheme of things. Mensur however is able to take a step back and see that maybe they are just incompetent in how its being handled and while they may have done some scummy shit...its not a scam.
There IS a game and they ARE developing it and there IS significant progress, consider the argument back in 2013 a la D.S. that the game was "impossible" to make....
They have not done like Chronicles of Elyria, and many other real scam projects where there never was a game at all that we have talked about here at mmorpg.com.
Last thing I want to point out you will rarely see me quoting all the peeps that think or say its a scam etc etc. I once in a awhile will point out I think they are full of crap as I am allowed my opinion just as they are and will sometimes point out my reasoning like for example just cause it taking a effing long time for them to release sq42 doesn't make it a scam IMO, it's just one of the pitfalls of crowd funding so i think people that can't stomach that shouldn't give them money simple as....my beef in this thread was something else entirely.
One of the dangers of crown fund and backing games like this is that there is a high risk nothing will come of it and like I have been saying since 2013 you only put money in it you are comfortable flushing down the toilet cause the end product if they do succeed may not be at all what was pitched. Anyone that has issues with this can just wait till the game is actually done and released. Dunno it like going to horse races and then complaining your "sure win" didnt pan out.
No my point was there are some people out there that will keep on saying it was a total scam even after sq42 releases and SC itself releases and will keep on harping about why they are right to believe its a scam and they stole money from people....
Here a recent 4 hour steam video, skip ahead 35mins about and have a watch...dunno but that looks like a real game to me, doesn't look like a tech demo like we had in 2013 and to be frank I don't know any other game that really compares. Not even Elite Dangerous of which I am also an OG backer.
I totally agree that there is "something" there. Something significant. What percent that is of what was promised? I dunno.
For SQ42 I'm really in the dark. Seen some video clips that look great. Seen some clips that show various game areas including on planet, FPS, in space, dog fighting. So it LOOKS like a lot has been done.
Am I 100% sure? No... it's fairly easy to mock up clips so I can't rule that out, but I think it's very likely that they have a significant portion of SQ42 complete. My guess is that it's also super glitchy, buggy and incomplete. And it likely definitely will launch in an imperfect state. But then again, Wing Commander launched with bugs and glitches, so if it's FUN those will all get overlooked.
Now do I think the game project is or has been a scam? No. But I DO believe that Chris lost focus and moved goalposts in order to maximize his personal payout. I DO believe he has said many less than truthful things about the state of the game and distance to release. I DO believe that he mismanaged much of the project, wasted a ton of money, and focused on maximizing pledges instead of progress.
But I DO, despite all that, hold out hope that I'll get to play Squadron 42 within the next 2 years. Silly maybe. But I'm still a fanboy. Just a more jaded and realistic one than I was back when this started.
PS: For you folks waiting for SC and NOT SQ42... you suckers are likely looking at another 5+ years
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I totally agree that there is "something" there. Something significant. What percent that is of what was promised? I dunno.
Well now, I can help with that, here's a couple of opinions over on the MoP story with a similar title regarding the actual content delivered to date.
sizer99 wrote: "I know that sounds crazy, but there’s no real actual game there yet.
I logged in last month (I do so every couple years just to see) and it’s a very boring empty universe except for a few things like bunker missions, which have you running on foot through a very empty bunker that has maybe 4 enemies looking for some random MacGuffin.
Most players seem to spend their time just PvPing other players (n00bs are fresh meat, and there are no safe zones, only ‘safe’ zones which aren’t).
You can still randomly fall through the floor. It’s like Starfield without the main (or side) plotlines.
I see no reason why you’d play it instead of No Man’s Sky if you weren’t investing in speculative real money ships."
They were not alone in this opinion about the yet unrealized designs of SC.
Felix Stone shared: "They can’t even figure out if SC is an open PVP or a PVE game (they want money from both camps); two mutually incompatible concepts as per a quarter of a century of MMO/multiplayer gaming, and they are already planning for a SC 1.0 release?
Not to mention that a significant portion of their already sold cash shop items require gameplay that does not exist or is in a very primitive state. Many of the cash shop items don’t exist beyond a JPEG!
One good example is trading/hauling; it’s technically in-game for nearly a decade, but the overall gameplay experience is crude and borderline pointless. Trading has no impact or relationship with the wider world (a decade ago citizens were speculating about blockade runner ships).
One other massive gap is the complete lack of any kind of economic model. The much promoted “quanta” approach by Roberts’ old Origin buddy Tony Zurovec was cancelled. There is no supply/demand. Roberts mentioned crafting, but they don’t have even a conceptual implementation of how crafting relates to the in-game economy.
And that’s just two select examples, there are many, many more."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not to sound facetious but can one of the players who play Star Citizen come here and tell us what you do on a typical playthrough of the currently available content. Give a detailed account so those people who might want to buy the game can actually see what content is there.
Don't post videos please. Those can be doctored. I want an account if possible.
Not to sound facetious but can one of the players who play Star Citizen come here and tell us what you do on a typical playthrough of the currently available content. Give a detailed account so those people who might want to buy the game can actually see what content is there.
Don't post videos please. Those can be doctored. I want an account if possible.
The twitch link I gave is a 4+hour unedited past broadcast of someone's twitch stream. Nothing in there has been edited, or clipped or "doctored" etc etc which is why its so long. It's from 3 days ago.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Not to sound facetious but can one of the players who play Star Citizen come here and tell us what you do on a typical playthrough of the currently available content. Give a detailed account so those people who might want to buy the game can actually see what content is there.
Don't post videos please. Those can be doctored. I want an account if possible.
"Don't post videos please. Those can be doctored. I want an account if possible."
...snip... It's sad cause this has become progressively worse over time since the moderators have decided to go on a permanent vacation and as such we have people thinking trolling and forum pvping like this was reddit is perfectly acceptable.
We have had over the past few years more bans than I can remember in the previous 15 or so years! The idea we are lacking moderation sticks in my craw. But I don't disagree about the civility, I just don't think we can expect everyone to conform to some imposed set of standards. We do have standards on here, people are being banned for them, that's more than enough for me.
Personally I often take a poke at consoles and playing games on devices with tiny screens, You could call that trolling, I hope people take it with the humor that it is intended. What I am getting at is that this is a matter of perception, one persons humour is another's trolling, taking a moral stance is tricky to do.
Where I draw the line is people being told they are stupid idiots etc, blast the guys argument not the guy.
Not to sound facetious but can one of the players who play Star Citizen come here and tell us what you do on a typical playthrough of the currently available content. Give a detailed account so those people who might want to buy the game can actually see what content is there.
Don't post videos please. Those can be doctored. I want an account if possible.
The twitch link I gave is a 4+hour unedited past broadcast of someone's twitch stream. Nothing in there has been edited, or clipped or "doctored" etc etc which is why its so long. It's from 3 days ago.
...snip... It's sad cause this has become progressively worse over time since the moderators have decided to go on a permanent vacation and as such we have people thinking trolling and forum pvping like this was reddit is perfectly acceptable.
We have had over the past few years more bans than I can remember in the previous 15 or so years! The idea we are lacking moderation sticks in my craw. But I don't disagree about the civility, I just don't think we can expect everyone to conform to some imposed set of standards. We do have standards on here, people are being banned for them, that's more than enough for me.
Personally I often take a poke at consoles and playing games on devices with tiny screens, You could call that trolling, I hope people take it with the humor that it is intended. What I am getting at is that this is a matter of perception, one persons humour is another's trolling, taking a moral stance is tricky to do.
Where I draw the line is people being told they are stupid idiots etc, blast the guys argument not the guy.
I am not talking about perma bans for political stuff which is the only moderation we have had but I mean moderators temp locking threads or warning peeps to chill out with the personal attacks. I mean giving people temp bans for a few days to make them realize their shit posting was going to far etc etc.
It easy to see the same bad actors posting the same shit posts.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Ah first person not my thing but it was boring all that flying around looking at bland stuff from top. The part where they were moving bodies was entertaining. I skipped a lot because it was just boring.
There is a game but it may not be for me. Thanks for the vid.
Comments
When you consider that some posters have put money in and still hold on to the idea they will get what they paid for and see those who post against the game as inhibiting it's chance of having the best success. Meanwhile...
Others think their money was misspent and may return nothing or an inferior product and those posting favorably are perpetuating more spending on a project which may be doomed. Well the flaming wars are inevitable.
I never put money into a game before it properly launches, I know this is shouting into the wind, but maybe it is best to just wait for the reviews?
As to what I think is an issue, all the types of games you mentioned have serious issues related to them. We have had staff articles about the issues of SC, Blockchain, and Crowd funded games and for all I know the others you mentioned as well. Bearing that in mind it is not surprising so many posters want to address those issues.
I am not saying the staff are giving us license, just that these concerns are not limited to posters on our forums. I am sure with all the positive posts on the official SC forums things must seem very different but can you not see why elsewhere criticism will be much sharper.
Here is one for you, where is the forum where all these conversations occur in a measured manner? I am not going to except the official (and therefore biassed) forum and the issues with editors in the likes of Reddit and Massively speak for themselves.
Go look at the Star Citizen forum on here. Go look at the actual threads created in the that forum in the last 6 months:
Created by ME about the layoffs. Only thread created in 2024 (60 posts)
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/504095/star-citizen-layoffs/p1
Created by Hateful Dec2023 (5 posts)
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/503433/3-22-live
Created by Max Oct 2023 (16 posts)
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/502644/star-citizens-squadron-42-feature-complete-announcement
That's it. 3 whole threads and one of those was made by ME when they announced the layoffs.
We could go back further but I think there were only 2 more in all the rest of 2023.
So go look particularly at the 2 threads created by Hateful and Max. No real "trolling" at all. Nothing at ALL in those threads that should discourage others from posting similar threads. Again, very, very different from a NewsPost. But when I suggest people go make more of these, some folks see it as an 'attack", because... well... of course they do. And of course, they cannot make threads like Max and Hateful did because "community sux".
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't care to post at MoP because they are not really conversations, rather just people posting their opinions and moving on.
I also dislike the fact Bree and other editors on MoP insist that posters believe like they do, and cancel those who express opinions to the contrary.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So we are bad, but not as bad as the rest. I will take that.
You have made me realise this is partly about my loyalty to the site, the same loyalty I have for my science and other forums. That is founded on quality of the debate and the fact there is a debate. So if a thread is too one sided I can drop out of those threads myself. Do I want to repeat a warning about a game that's been in development for ages, no unless I can make a quip out of it.
Having said that, once again I went on about waiting for games to launch and be reviewed. We all have some beef in gaming, that is one of mine. Bare in mind I used to speak out against preorders before cash shops existed!
I do think we should give new guys a break, let them paddle around in the starter pool before they are thrown into the deep end as it were. To do that some posters are going to have to accept ignoring them, we can't ask people to post supportively about views they oppose.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
For SQ42 I'm really in the dark. Seen some video clips that look great. Seen some clips that show various game areas including on planet, FPS, in space, dog fighting. So it LOOKS like a lot has been done.
Am I 100% sure? No... it's fairly easy to mock up clips so I can't rule that out, but I think it's very likely that they have a significant portion of SQ42 complete. My guess is that it's also super glitchy, buggy and incomplete. And it likely definitely will launch in an imperfect state. But then again, Wing Commander launched with bugs and glitches, so if it's FUN those will all get overlooked.
Now do I think the game project is or has been a scam? No. But I DO believe that Chris lost focus and moved goalposts in order to maximize his personal payout. I DO believe he has said many less than truthful things about the state of the game and distance to release. I DO believe that he mismanaged much of the project, wasted a ton of money, and focused on maximizing pledges instead of progress.
But I DO, despite all that, hold out hope that I'll get to play Squadron 42 within the next 2 years. Silly maybe. But I'm still a fanboy. Just a more jaded and realistic one than I was back when this started.
PS: For you folks waiting for SC and NOT SQ42... you suckers are likely looking at another 5+ years
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"I know that sounds crazy, but there’s no real actual game there yet.
I logged in last month (I do so every couple years just to see) and it’s a very boring empty universe except for a few things like bunker missions, which have you running on foot through a very empty bunker that has maybe 4 enemies looking for some random MacGuffin.
Most players seem to spend their time just PvPing other players (n00bs are fresh meat, and there are no safe zones, only ‘safe’ zones which aren’t).
You can still randomly fall through the floor. It’s like Starfield without the main (or side) plotlines.
I see no reason why you’d play it instead of No Man’s Sky if you weren’t investing in speculative real money ships."
They were not alone in this opinion about the yet unrealized designs of SC.
"They can’t even figure out if SC is an open PVP or a PVE game (they want money from both camps); two mutually incompatible concepts as per a quarter of a century of MMO/multiplayer gaming, and they are already planning for a SC 1.0 release?
Not to mention that a significant portion of their already sold cash shop items require gameplay that does not exist or is in a very primitive state. Many of the cash shop items don’t exist beyond a JPEG!
One good example is trading/hauling; it’s technically in-game for nearly a decade, but the overall gameplay experience is crude and borderline pointless. Trading has no impact or relationship with the wider world (a decade ago citizens were speculating about blockade runner ships).
One other massive gap is the complete lack of any kind of economic model. The much promoted “quanta” approach by Roberts’ old Origin buddy Tony Zurovec was cancelled. There is no supply/demand. Roberts mentioned crafting, but they don’t have even a conceptual implementation of how crafting relates to the in-game economy.
And that’s just two select examples, there are many, many more."
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Don't post videos please. Those can be doctored. I want an account if possible.
The twitch link I gave is a 4+hour unedited past broadcast of someone's twitch stream. Nothing in there has been edited, or clipped or "doctored" etc etc which is why its so long. It's from 3 days ago.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Star Citizen Gate!
Personally I often take a poke at consoles and playing games on devices with tiny screens, You could call that trolling, I hope people take it with the humor that it is intended. What I am getting at is that this is a matter of perception, one persons humour is another's trolling, taking a moral stance is tricky to do.
Where I draw the line is people being told they are stupid idiots etc, blast the guys argument not the guy.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
There is a game but it may not be for me. Thanks for the vid.