Streamer lives for attention. Streamer cries when he gets it.
If he wants to learn the game why don’t they make it so he can’t be player killed but he can’t kill a player
or
he uses another character to learn the game
or
he can join a guild and experience the game as it was intended…
Yeah, I had those same thoughts.
This does illustrate a problem though - what happens if a group decides to target someone that isn't famous, but is someone they just. don't. like. You know, griefers.
So, protecting this one guy isn't really addressing the hole here.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the focus on this is in the wrong direction. We see it as Steven is a jurk. His focus is off.
First Steven is working hard to make PKer a thing that is really bad. Using it is a choice but be ready there will be consequences. Steven saw his game being used in a way he did not intend. Till he can patch it and make sure that does not happen till then. He saw what was happening and put a stop on it. He so much does not want that to be part of his game. He would rather perma ban someone who was grefing. Myself. I'm happy he did what he did. Will he be able to tune the flagging rule? I don't know but I appreciate he cares.
I don't see him as being a jerk for this. At all.
Honestly though, if he didn't see this happening I would have to question a lot about the project. I mean, rule number one of PvP games is that if players can attack someone they will do so. So to not think that a person could be targeted and griefed seems unlikely.
But, as I said earlier... I think this was good and NEEDED. He now has had his eyes forced open to see this stuff. Believe me that this is only a small piece of what can happen. It will be hard for him to thread the needle of allowing freedom but still preventing anarchy and abuse. It's fucking HARD to get it right.
His next step, per his post, is to implement a safe zone for new players. I think that's an OK step in the short term, but there has to be much more. That just delays the pain point for a few days.
We will see where this goes.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Streamer lives for attention. Streamer cries when he gets it.
If he wants to learn the game why don’t they make it so he can’t be player killed but he can’t kill a player
or
he uses another character to learn the game
or
he can join a guild and experience the game as it was intended…
Yeah, I had those same thoughts.
This does illustrate a problem though - what happens if a group decides to target someone that isn't famous, but is someone they just. don't. like. You know, griefers.
So, protecting this one guy isn't really addressing the hole here.
Exactly.
But luckily.. it WAS him who was targeted. So he had 70,000 viewers watching. So it got Stephen's attention. So, hopefully, it gets fixed for everyone. Because you can't PK Asmongold is not a sustainable rule.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Streamer lives for attention. Streamer cries when he gets it.
If he wants to learn the game why don’t they make it so he can’t be player killed but he can’t kill a player
or
he uses another character to learn the game
or
he can join a guild and experience the game as it was intended…
Yeah, I had those same thoughts.
This does illustrate a problem though - what happens if a group decides to target someone that isn't famous, but is someone they just. don't. like. You know, griefers.
So, protecting this one guy isn't really addressing the hole here.
Well it depends on the type of game they want to make. It’s not a hole if they’re ok with griefing.
Post edited by Sovrath on
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So the popular streamer gets protection from their great PvP system. Flawed system is what it is.
Streamers get their own servers in some MMO's this is nothing new, still dubious none the less. But I am happy streamers do get their own servers, I would not want to play on a server with them.
If they don't wise up before launch about how byzantine their flagging system is I can't see the game being a success. But launch is ages away and fingers crossed they wise up.
Stephen has said (now, not sure if this is new or a reaction to the griefing incident) that you will not be able to PvP in the starter zone. I think that is another good, incremental shift in the right direction.
But at it's heart, this incident indicates to me that they definitely have a system problem which does NOT prevent griefing. If it were player XYZ, Stephen would not care. He only took action here because there were 70,000 viewers watching Asmongold when it happened.
The only way to prevent this is either having a PVP toggle for those who want to PVP.
Or, like so many MMO's already figured out 20 years ago, have dedicated PVE and PVP servers.
Griefing and Ganking is PVP in MMO's in a nutshell.
I have played for quite a while on an RPPVP server in WoW back in it's early days ( 2005-2007) and eventually just gave up, due to the amount of ganking and griefing on spawn locations in low level zones by bored level 60 players.
That's why I haven't played on PVP servers ever since. To each their own if they enjoy that kind of fetish gameplay.
The developer's reaction to asmongold getting attacked and being PvPed does not bode well. It showed clearly this is a developer very much afraid of what impression is being created and far from the blasé "this game isn't for you" attitude.
Yes, it is a concern when any organisation runs to the tune of the media, this is a development of the problems gaming has when developers only respond to those with the loudest voices.
The developer's reaction to asmongold getting attacked and being PvPed does not bode well. It showed clearly this is a developer very much afraid of what impression is being created and far from the blasé "this game isn't for you" attitude.
I don't think Ashes was ever planned to be unlimited PvP gankfest, and that the dev's reaction when they announced they're planning to make newbie areas PvE zones was in line with their previous plans of trying to have PvP but limit the worst ganking.
It remains to be seen whether the devs are smart enough to admit that their current design isn't achieving their stated aims and rework the flagging system. Introducing PvP only a bit later in the game might be a good idea, but it it doesn't solve the problem that their PvP system is not working as it should.
This just showed major issues that happen a lot in games where there is pking like this and how it easily becomes griefing.
Asmongold is a streamer so what?
How is it relevant other than his being a streamer forced a dev to see a flaw many of us knew was gonna happen instead of going all dev ego tripping and just saying if you don't like go play something else?
This is good that this happened unless you want a game where emergent griefing gankfesting loops are encouraged.
I am sure lots of you hating on this guy would not enjoy it very much if this was happening to you to the point the game was unplayable as I read it was in this case.
The dev action in this case bode well IMO on how maybe they dont want this kind of behavior even if I still feel that it will still happen just maybe not in these starter zones...
...the whole open world pvp things is just not tenable in most games cause people do not act like they would in real life in such games cause it's just pixels. People will exploit, find loopholes and work arounds to game the system to their own personal/clan advantage even beyond the scope of the game if able to and that's just a fact of gaming.
Even in pure competitive pvp games people will try and cheat etc etc.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Is everyone aware of the corruption system? If you kill someone who is unflagged and doesnt fight back, you gain corruption which will turn you red. When youre red, you drop equipped gear which is pretty impactful in Ashes. The only way to lower corruption is to grind out mobs and its intended to take a long time. The larger the level gap between the killer and the victim, the more corruption the killer gets.
I believe that people griefed Asmon because its an alpha state game. They didnt care if their characters were wrecked. In fact, finding this type of issue is what alpha is for. Steven used the warnings and eventual bans as a bandaid fix. He said that measures would he taken to prevent this at the start of the game in the future.
Well if I was a griefer I would use crap gear so when I am red I drop equipped crap gear. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out, old as the hills that ploy.
Well if I was a griefer I would use crap gear so when I am red I drop equipped crap gear. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out, old as the hills that ploy.
Right however with crap gear, you will likely be killed as gear makes a big difference. Eventually the random pks will lose their bad gear too. Also you cant loot “good” players gear. Its zero sum.
I will say this game is already providing plenty of entertainment and I've never even watched it streamed much less actually played it. It's a gold mine (Asmongold mine?) for forum fodder. I mean someone busted out the word "byzantine"!
If the game wants to have PvP as a big part of the game why not just have a PvP zone? Anybody who wants to PvP can play there; dividing it up into levels makes it easy to PvP against players of similar strengths. This has worked well for decades in numerous games.
Obviously that is not the goal of this game, since they didn't implement PvP areas and instead are trying to work out complicated rules for PvP. The game *wants* to let players attack other players who do *not* want to PvP.
This never works very well and the streamer being ganked is a perfect example. If there is any way the griefers can ruin the game, they will. If there are rules they will find out how to break them and cheat. This is the nature of griefers and my prediction is that if they allow it the game is doomed to fail or limp along with a tiny population.
If the game wants to have PvP as a big part of the game why not just have a PvP zone? Anybody who wants to PvP can play there; dividing it up into levels makes it easy to PvP against players of similar strengths. This has worked well for decades in numerous games.
Obviously that is not the goal of this game, since they didn't implement PvP areas and instead are trying to work out complicated rules for PvP. The game *wants* to let players attack other players who do *not* want to PvP.
This never works very well and the streamer being ganked is a perfect example. If there is any way the griefers can ruin the game, they will. If there are rules they will find out how to break them and cheat. This is the nature of griefers and my prediction is that if they allow it the game is doomed to fail or limp along with a tiny population.
The developers fail to understand the mindset of the griefer portion of the PvP crowd. I'm not talking about the people who actually want to PvP there, I'm talking about the mindset of people who enjoy breaking games and the subsequent drama.
Some people just want to watch the game burn.
I won't believe a developer's schemes until they can first list out what is actually going on. Until then, they're batting at flies.
Well if I was a griefer I would use crap gear so when I am red I drop equipped crap gear. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out, old as the hills that ploy.
Right however with crap gear, you will likely be killed as gear makes a big difference. Eventually the random pks will lose their bad gear too. Also you cant loot “good” players gear. Its zero sum.
High level gankers would completely overpower low level newbs even if they did their ganking naked.
Comments
or
he uses another character to learn the game
or
he can join a guild and experience the game as it was intended…
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This does illustrate a problem though - what happens if a group decides to target someone that isn't famous, but is someone they just. don't. like. You know, griefers.
So, protecting this one guy isn't really addressing the hole here.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Honestly though, if he didn't see this happening I would have to question a lot about the project. I mean, rule number one of PvP games is that if players can attack someone they will do so. So to not think that a person could be targeted and griefed seems unlikely.
But, as I said earlier... I think this was good and NEEDED. He now has had his eyes forced open to see this stuff. Believe me that this is only a small piece of what can happen. It will be hard for him to thread the needle of allowing freedom but still preventing anarchy and abuse. It's fucking HARD to get it right.
His next step, per his post, is to implement a safe zone for new players. I think that's an OK step in the short term, but there has to be much more. That just delays the pain point for a few days.
We will see where this goes.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Anyone who is genuinely surprised at getting ganked in a gank title would be a moron.
But luckily.. it WAS him who was targeted. So he had 70,000 viewers watching. So it got Stephen's attention. So, hopefully, it gets fixed for everyone. Because you can't PK Asmongold is not a sustainable rule.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Or, like so many MMO's already figured out 20 years ago, have dedicated PVE and PVP servers.
Griefing and Ganking is PVP in MMO's in a nutshell.
I have played for quite a while on an RPPVP server in WoW back in it's early days ( 2005-2007) and eventually just gave up, due to the amount of ganking and griefing on spawn locations in low level zones by bored level 60 players.
That's why I haven't played on PVP servers ever since. To each their own if they enjoy that kind of fetish gameplay.
It remains to be seen whether the devs are smart enough to admit that their current design isn't achieving their stated aims and rework the flagging system. Introducing PvP only a bit later in the game might be a good idea, but it it doesn't solve the problem that their PvP system is not working as it should.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Obviously that is not the goal of this game, since they didn't implement PvP areas and instead are trying to work out complicated rules for PvP. The game *wants* to let players attack other players who do *not* want to PvP.
This never works very well and the streamer being ganked is a perfect example. If there is any way the griefers can ruin the game, they will. If there are rules they will find out how to break them and cheat. This is the nature of griefers and my prediction is that if they allow it the game is doomed to fail or limp along with a tiny population.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Some people just want to watch the game burn.
I won't believe a developer's schemes until they can first list out what is actually going on. Until then, they're batting at flies.