I dont grind. I did the holo grind and swore against grinding in any form every since. so I play to have fun. I actually hunted mobs because it was fun to hunt them. I didnt hunt for xp. Since the hologrind I didnt care one bit about xp.
Used to be fun and versatile... now it is a level based booooring grind.
Used to be unique, now it is cookie-cutter copy-of-a-copy gameplay.
Run, don't walk away from this game.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
LOL Shayde When was the last time you played? I thought you quit? How would you know?
ANY game can be a 'grind' if you let it. ANY game. Matrix, WOW, EQ, SWG, Ryzom... ANYTHING can turn into a grind if your ONLY goal is to get to XYZ level or XYZ template or XYZ skill or XYZ Cash Ammt (EVE)
But: Any game can also just be FUN Grinding, in ANY game, is a choice. SWG doesn't force players to grind. There is tons to do without ever even thinking about grinding if players just choose to enjoy the game instead of trying to reach X template as quickly as possible.
Just a clue: The game isn't any more fun as a Jedi than it was as a Novice Scout/whatever. So enjoy the JOURNEY and STOP GRINDING!
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
The game IS a grind, because if you aren't CL80, you're as good as dead.
It used to be that any character could do just about anything they wanted without worring about their combat level. Crafters could check harvesters without getting killed by mobs, People could solo-hunt without worring about dying when you aggro more than one mob.
Now everything is based on your combat level.
Now you have to grind to 80 to survive.
You never had to do that before. NEVER had to master a damn thing you didn't want to. You could be a Musician, artisan and smuggler... and not give up anything. Now if you aren't a double combat master you're as good as dead.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Shayde The game IS a grind, because if you aren't CL80, you're as good as dead. It used to be that any character could do just about anything they wanted without worring about their combat level. Crafters could check harvesters without getting killed by mobs, People could solo-hunt without worring about dying when you aggro more than one mob. Now everything is based on your combat level.Now you have to grind to 80 to survive.You never had to do that before. NEVER had to master a damn thing you didn't want to. You could be a Musician, artisan and smuggler... and not give up anything. Now if you aren't a double combat master you're as good as dead.
Um... you don't play post CU, you've admitted as much. You do *NOT* have to be CL80 to survive. Not by a long shot. You do have to be CL80 to SOLO some things but you can solo OTHER things just fine at CL20 if you really want to. CL80 isn't a requirement, it's a goal.
I know you don't believe this... or you do and you're just blindly bashing because you just hate the game now... but the truth is that CL80 is NOT NECESSARY to have fun in this game. And it's certainly not necessary to "survive". I will agree that if you want to PVP you need to master at least one combat profession but, again, you don't have to be CL80. This is especially true for PVP because in PVP the CL isn't taken into account for accuracy/dmg/etc... CL only applies to PVE (unless that's been changed within the past month).
As to gear: There isn't a single weapon in the game that requires more than CL54.
SWG is about as far from a 'grinder' game as they come. Yes, I liked the skill system better before. But the CL system didn't break the game at all. In fact it made many things better. That's personal oppinion though. Some folks liked the new method better, some folks liked the old better. Potato Potato.
Come to think about it: I had more fun at CL20-70 than I did at CL80.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Where did you pull the "Didn't play post CU" out of, your ass? I beta tested that mess, I quit in protest, but returned a month later to help some friends, and because Sony ate Matrix and it was only 6 bucks more.
And 6 bucks is maybe what that mess is worth.
You NEED CL80 to do any of the crap they call content... that is unless you join a group of fighter types and hide behind them praying to not get one-shotted due to your pathetic lack of HP.
The made the combat suck. All predetermined by combat level, and if you aren't in a group, you die.
The CU killed everything that was fun about this game.
Versatility - Gone Lack of grind - Gone Soloability - gone Stability - gone 6 player classes - useless Combat "Balance" - HAHAHAHAAH You gotta be kidding.
Yeah... I quit this mess. I finally decided it wasn't worth 6 dollars. Too bad I have a month and a half of free time left from transferring MxO over.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by LordMagnus I've heard in the past that the game had too many bugs and things that made the game unpleasant to play. I decided to wait until the game got more updated to even consider playing it so i'm wondering if it's even worth buying yet. Should I just wait a little more or is it good to play yet?
NOOO!!! Stay AWAY!!!! SAVE YOUR TIME AND MONEY!!!! the only thing Star Wars About the game is the NAME!!!
Originally posted by Shayde Where did you pull the "Didn't play post CU" out of, your ass? I beta tested that mess, I quit in protest, but returned a month later to help some friends, and because Sony ate Matrix and it was only 6 bucks more.And 6 bucks is maybe what that mess is worth.You NEED CL80 to do any of the crap they call content... that is unless you join a group of fighter types and hide behind them praying to not get one-shotted due to your pathetic lack of HP.The made the combat suck. All predetermined by combat level, and if you aren't in a group, you die.The CU killed everything that was fun about this game. Versatility - Gone Lack of grind - Gone Soloability - gone Stability - gone 6 player classes - useless Combat "Balance" - HAHAHAHAAH You gotta be kidding.Yeah... I quit this mess. I finally decided it wasn't worth 6 dollars. Too bad I have a month and a half of free time left from transferring MxO over.
I call BS Lack of Grind - There is no grind. Unless you create one yourself. There is no need. NONE to reach CL80. I started a new character on a new server after the CU simply because so many people kept saying how hard it was to level after the CU. They are full of it. Once you learn the new system it's just as easy as before to solo as long as you have some healer in your template. Don't believe me? Go start a nov medic / nov combat / nov anything else and you CAN and WILL be successful at solo play.
Soloability - No it's not gone. I solo'd that new character we just discussed up to CL80. Never once joined a group. Never once got PL'd.
Stability - Gone? What are you smoking? I haven't had a CTD in ages in SWG. What is your definition of "stability"? The game is stable.
Which 6 player classes are useless please? I can think of ONE that has legit issues. I can't think of a single prof that is "useless". Please enlighten me?
Combat Balance: Do you PVP? PVP is MUCH more balanced now than Pre CU. And Jedi aren't as all-powerful as they once were either. They're still annoying 1 on 1 and even in small group. But in large scale combat they're not too bad (if you can tolerate the idea of an army of Jedi, which I can't.
The game is stable, solid, has depth, is balanced and does NOT have a grind unless you put one in yourself by thinking that you have to be CL80 to "survive". (patently false, you dont' even need to be CL80 on Dathomir).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Sorry bro, the game is stable for you and for me and for alot of people but there is still that one group of people that finally had to do what I did (Switch to linux) or quit the game because of instability. Several came back after the CU only to find the original problems are still causing them to crash eventhough their systems far exceed the reqs and they have all the right set ups. But they are a small minority (Only a thousand players or so) so SOE and LA wont be jumping on this issue anytime soon.
And combat isnt completely balanced. Its closer then ever before to being balanced but its still FOTM and Temp stacking so its still not 100%. Probably around 75% now compared to the Pre-CU 20% though. LOL
Originally posted by kaibigan34 Elnator Sorry bro, the game is stable for you and for me and for alot of people but there is still that one group of people that finally had to do what I did (Switch to linux) or quit the game because of instability. Several came back after the CU only to find the original problems are still causing them to crash eventhough their systems far exceed the reqs and they have all the right set ups. But they are a small minority (Only a thousand players or so) so SOE and LA wont be jumping on this issue anytime soon. And combat isnt completely balanced. Its closer then ever before to being balanced but its still FOTM and Temp stacking so its still not 100%. Probably around 75% now compared to the Pre-CU 20% though. LOL Kai
Kai,
Let's see About 1,000 players out of the millions who have played or tried the game is not something that is likely server side. That's likely CLIENT side instabilities from Bios issues to firmware drivers to software drivers to bad components on the PC or just about anything else. It's not SOE's job to troubleshoot the user's workstation. But, for arguement's sake, I'll agree to dissagree here. Neither of us knows the problem history well enough to honestly say this CANT be a client issue or it CANT be some wierd code issue on the server (though I doubt it since the server side code doesn't CARE about the workstation). You proved that it's probably a software issue on the workstation yourself when you said something to the affect of:
"I had some stability issues and then I switched to Linux running WINE and all my client problems went away. "
That alone should tell you that the stability issues are NOT with the SWG client or servers but with the workstation software/hardware/firmware/bios.
As to combat balance: When you can combine so many different potential templates it will *never* be perfectly balanced. There will always be the potential to create a dud template or a template that's innately stronger than another. The only way to avoid this would be to make every template the same (yawn!!!). It could be a bit better than it is now but I'll honestlly say that, having played NUMEROUS PVP enabled games, SWG has the best PVP balance of any of them with the possible exception of EVE Online.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Actually the real ironic thing is about 6 months after game release one guy, a programmer, RE'd his client and found it was a fault of the client and Windows on some configurations. And the configurations were wide spread enough to encompass several different system builds.
He even found a fix for it that would have taken SOE and LA all of 5 minutes to adjust and then patch with everything else. For a month he tried emailing them and getting them to make this adjustment.
Finally he gave up and posted it on the Tech Support Forums. What did he get for his trouble? Banned for REing their client. Great company we have here folks. And a year later SOE gladly uses a fix for sabers (JEDI JEDI JEDI) from a programmer fan and he doesnt get banned.
Oh and I doubt millions have played this game. If they only sold 1 million franchizes which could mean anything under 1 million with them including JTL and ROTW into the mix then its far less. Probably around 500k users over the 2.25 years its been out.
Originally posted by Shayde You NEED CL80 to do any of the crap they call content... that is unless you join a group of fighter types and hide behind them praying to not get one-shotted due to your pathetic lack of HP.
I am getting a bit tired of all the nonsense post from "resident expert Shayde". Its one thing to not like SWG and let people know the cons of the game .. its another to just spam plain nonsense or made up stuff.
This is just one more of these posts ....
here is an example to shoot down his theory. My main toon is a crafter fighter hybrid at combat level 60. I can do at least 70 % of all content in the game EASILY. By preparing (buff, food, drink, armor, spice) and maybe adding some medic to my template I can do 85-90 % of all content. 8 % of the remaining 10 % I can do quite easily in a group. Leaves 2 % ... like DWB lower levels ... which I COULD do in a group, but the group would be better off having a true CL 80 fighter instead of me. So ... 2 % out of 100 % would better be done by someone with level 80 instead of 60.
What he overlooks is that some content that he believes to be fighting only can be done with plain tactics ... burst running, feigning death, using camo and mask scent etc. But that would involve THINKING ....
Originally posted by Erillion Originally posted by Shayde You NEED CL80 to do any of the crap they call content... that is unless you join a group of fighter types and hide behind them praying to not get one-shotted due to your pathetic lack of HP. I am getting a bit tired of all the nonsense post from "resident expert Shayde". Its one thing to not like SWG and let people know the cons of the game .. its another to just spam plain nonsense or made up stuff. This is just one more of these posts .... here is an example to shoot down his theory. My main toon is a crafter fighter hybrid at combat level 60. I can do at least 70 % of all content in the game EASILY. By preparing (buff, food, drink, armor, spice) and maybe adding some medic to my template I can do 85-90 % of all content. 8 % of the remaining 10 % I can do quite easily in a group. Leaves 2 % ... like DWB lower levels ... which I COULD do in a group, but the group would be better off having a true CL 80 fighter instead of me. So ... 2 % out of 100 % would better be done by someone with level 80 instead of 60. What he overlooks is that some content that he believes to be fighting only can be done with plain tactics ... burst running, feigning death, using camo and mask scent etc. But that would involve THINKING .... Have fun Erillion
That's like claiming you can fly...
But you know.. you gotta be up high.. with a glider.. and an updraft.. with no rain... and a pull plane.. and lessons..
You are just finding the slight exception hybrid template that breaks the rule. The one loophole "Eat a ton of spices, food, have a line of CM, Feign Death, camoflage, a group of jedi around you, Jesus statue on your keyboard.. and you too can survive not being CL80"
So your wacky example aside... if you aren't CL80, you're still in a group praying you don't get one shotted.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
As I have said multiple times: I actually had more fun BEFORE I reached CL80 because there was MUCH more to do before CL80. Once you're CL80 a lot of the content isn't all that great anymore because it's not as much of a challenge. That's *my* biggest complaint about the CL system. It makes old places that you once loved to go to pointless.
There are maybe 3 places in the game that I couldn't go as a CL60 that I could as a CL80 1) DWB 2) Corvette (and I COULD go there with a solid group as long as I was careful and, yes, there was the fear of being 1-shotted there). 3) Avatar Platform - And that was do-able at 60... Just risky. No 1 hit deaths at all.
See, Shayde, you are so violently hating of the game that you refuse to see reality. The vast majority of the content in SWG is geared towards those CL54 and below (single elite combat profession). CL80 is a double-elite combat profession and it's NOT necessary to succeed in the game. Hell most people in the Jedi Villiage working on their Jedi are below CL80 Go figure.
You can rant and rave about CL80 all you want but the bottom line is that over 90% of the things you can do in the game don't require anything more than CL54 and over 70% don't even require that. The game is VERY fun, in fact I had the MOST fun, at lower skill levels.
YOUR problem is that you are hyper-obsessed with the Combat Level system.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Sorry but this game is geared for Jedi. Anyone can see it if they try. The developers care about only one thing. Getting you, me, and every player to grind out jedi. That guaruntees them a 6 - 12 month paid account. This is why other professions level so fast. This is why jedi get treated with kid gloves while other players are banned first time out for the same infractions. Not everyone will fall for the advertising scheme but they are trying to get us all to grind jedi. I almost wish everyone would grind jedi. Give them exactly what they want and watch this game crash and burn.
Several months ago a developer asked what players wanted to see in the GCW. The general consensus was wanting to see jedi taken out of the GCW and the game. So the developer's reply? Something like "From what I reading here, you all want jedi to have a higher purpose in the GCW right?". That would only come from a game developer trying to protect his precious jedi.
Oh and that 6 jedi pics out of 40 for TOW???? 6 pics with jedi. Where is the 6 pics with creature handlers? How about the 6 pics with scouts? Maybe 6 pics with heavy swordsman? Same reason one of the JTL promo videos had more jedi screentime then the ships.
They are also putting a jedi temple on Mustafar. Who wants to take bets it has jedi only content on it?
Come on, if this game is all about Jedi where is all the content to back that claim up. The vast majoroty of it has nothing to do with Jedi. The only thing making the game Jedi centric are those obsessed with being one and they simply spend most of their time grinding (ignoring the content).
There are already (unused) Jedi/Sith Temples in the game, they are POI and don't have Jedi only content. So what makes you feel the new one will?
Originally posted by grapevine Come on, if this game is all about Jedi where is all the content to back that claim up. The vast majoroty of it has nothing to do with Jedi. The only thing making the game Jedi centric are those obsessed with being one and they simply spend most of their time grinding (ignoring the content). There are already (unused) Jedi/Sith Temples in the game, they are POI and don't have Jedi only content. So what makes you feel the new one will?
Because they have already said there will be a new lava crystal for lightsabers. While it might be for everyone I seriously doubt it.
Here is how it works. Let me give you the crash course on Jedi Advertising 101. Player Newb decides to look at SWG. He sees some screens on the mainpage (One person counted them and found out that there is at least one jedi freatured screen every 7 shots supposedly) and even sees the videos that are salted with serious jedi leanings.
He gets the game. In the tutorial he sees two more jedi. Once he hits the main game he is literally pounded and hammered by the Jedi Adverts. Everytime one of those Llamas whips out his lightsaber he is effectively an Amway Salesman for SWG. So Player Newb sees these jedi that are everywhere. He sees them taking on rancors with ease. Sees them act as a Spinner in a group. Sees them slaughter players in mass groups.
He gets hooked. After all he just leveled his toon in just a few days (maybe a week if he was smart) so he can either pick a new profession and go check out the content he already passed by, or he can just go jedi. SOE and LA Marketing just got themselves yet another guarunteed 6 month paid account to add to the rest. And thus ends the lesson in Jedi Advertising 101.
We won't know until reports from beta (or launch), but personally I feel those will be rewards given to all. Just like force crystals, pearls and the one from RotW (which I can't remember the name of) are.
There is no denying Jedi are a marketing tool, or that they are highly desired. The fact is that to be one you don't play the game, you grind. That is a poor game mechanism, yes. However, saying the game is based around them is inaccurate. There is very little content revolving around Jedi, namely the village. The rest of the game is entirely open to every other profession. Being a Jedi is player choice, just like how long it takes to get there. If they decide to grind so they can reach full template in the shortest time that is their choice, their grind, their problem.
The grind was supposed to be the deterrent and a means of keeping numbers low. However, we all know that didn't work as the desire to be a Jedi (to the majority) is to great. SoE's down fall is that there isn't any deterrent in place, that wouldn't prevent the demand and desires of the players. They should have stuck with there original parma-death and blue glowy ideas, to even make an impact.
Originally posted by grapevine We won't know until reports from beta (or launch), but personally I feel those will be rewards given to all. Just like force crystals, pearls and the one from RotW (which I can't remember the name of) are. There is no denying Jedi are a marketing tool, or that they are highly desired. The fact is that to be one you don't play the game, you grind. That is a poor game mechanism, yes. However, saying the game is based around them is inaccurate. There is very little constent revolving around Jedi, namely the village. The rest of the game is entirely open to every other profession. Being a Jedi is player choice, just like how long it takes to get there. If they decide to grind so they can reach full template in the shortest time that is their choice, their grind, their problem. The grind was supposed to be the deterrent and a means of keeping numbers low. However, we all know that didn't work as the desire to be a Jedi (to the majority) is to great.
They want you to go jedi. They want you to grind it out. So they do subtle things to make you want to do it. You think its your own desire but 90% of the time they got you to do it. Dont think people are immune to marketing. These guys make a science out of getting you to buy things you dont need.
How many times have you heard or read posts from people who want to play but have no desire to go jedi and 3 months later you find out they are grinding jedi?
How many times has someone said they would grind for the extra slot but never go jedi then you see them in their jedi robes and lightsaber running through the mining outpost grinding up the jedi trees?
Kai, I think we are actually in agreement over this (i.e. Jedi were a bad idea) aside from one thing.
subjectively, you feel SoE/LA are forcing you to ignore game content in preference to grinding a profession that will take a long time to master so that they can retain your monthly fee.
While subjectively, I feel SoE/LA thought Jedi were a cool thing to have and because of player demand changed (yes, $) their implementation plans. I honestly don't think they expected people to become so focused on them that they ignored next to everything but grinding. However that in itself is and was a vast oversight.
I also don't have a Jedi and never want one, even after two years. As they destroy one's gameplay to much.
Originally posted by grapevine Kai, I think we are actually in agreement over this (i.e. Jedi were a bad idea) aside from one thing. subjectively, you feel SoE/LA are forcing you to ignore game content in preference to grinding a profession that will take a long time to master so that they can retain your monthly fee. While subjectively, I feel SoE/LA thought Jedi were a cool thing to have and because of player demand changed (yes, $) their implementation plans. I honestly don't think they expected people to become so focused on them that they ignored next to everything but grinding. However that in itself is and was a vast oversight. I also don't have a Jedi and never want one, even after two years. As they destroy one's gameplay to much.
Ok let me give you my last bit of proof that this game centers on jedi and grinding.
Ever since the holocrons started falling and the grind started, everyone could see this was bad for the game. I knew it. I still did it but even I knew this wasnt good. And now grinding is hurting this game even more. Its doing major damage and each week it continues it kills a little bit more of the game. I know it. You know it. Even jedi know it. They wont admit it but they know it. I am sure if Erillion put down the SOE Propoganda sheet long enough even he would know it. So everyone knows it. Even SOE and LA knows.
Yet SOE and LA do nothing to stop it. Why? This is slowing killing their game and still they even condone it. Why? Because they want it. They want us to become a jedi. They want us all to give them that guarunteed paid account. Their own inaction is proof. And when I say inaction I mean complete blindness of what is happening.
But SOE is starting to spin the thing. As I said before. I have noticed a decided turn in their language when referencing the jedi. Occasionally they slip with phrases like "They were meant to be rare" etc. Which shows me they are beginning to wake up and see just how badly they FUBAR this game. I think they are beginning to see numbers dropping alot more then we know. Maybe they are just tired of dealing with this type of l33t haxxor customer they have created. I dont know. But I think the Doctor is about to kill his Monster.... in a manner of speaking.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 But SOE is starting to spin the thing. As I said before. I have noticed a decided turn in their language when referencing the jedi. Occasionally they slip with phrases like "They were meant to be rare" etc. Which shows me they are beginning to wake up and see just how badly they FUBAR this game. I think they are beginning to see numbers dropping alot more then we know. Maybe they are just tired of dealing with this type of l33t haxxor customer they have created. I dont know. But I think the Doctor is about to kill his Monster.... in a manner of speaking. Kai
I've been seeing the same thing. It's like a small revolt going on there. The middle management says things are impossible, they are not going to be done, Jedi are fine etc etc.
Then the low level teams go ahead and make the posts that they are changing it anyway.
I honestly think they are trying to save this game now, and it does need saving. As it stands today, it's still only interactive graphics, with little to no game play possibilities.
For those that keep spouting that there is no grind, I would remind you that several of the developers in beta would make repeated statements that the idea was to have fun at your skill level, not to be forced to level beyond it to find that fun. This is an error that they are correcting in my opinion. If the skill level isn't fun, then it's a grind to get past it no matter how long it takes.
It's not necessarily all about time-to-max-level, but it's about the TRIP THERE. This is where I find no game play whatsoever. Rush off, kill stuff, ding a skill box. It's boring.
How many people here are tired of Bol-hunting?
That's the point. Any idiot can join a Bol group and level those boxes quickly. But this has nothing at all to do with Star Wars, and this is the primary issue in my opinion. They have not provided the feel of the SW universe in the game play, and the game play is what it's all about.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by Torak All the employees involved in this game need to 1) Sit down and watch the movies 2) play KOTOR 3) read a book or 2 Then they may get a clue as to what the genre is about Until that happens, they are still just winging it and guessing.
I think that sounds like a good idea for everyone!
Comments
Well .. here is some advice for grinding if you really HAVE to grind fast:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=game_guides&message.id=305871&view=by_date_ascending&page=1
Have fun (... or not ..)
Erillion
I dont grind. I did the holo grind and swore against grinding in any form every since. so I play to have fun. I actually hunted mobs because it was fun to hunt them. I didnt hunt for xp. Since the hologrind I didnt care one bit about xp.
Kai
The game sucks now.
Used to be fun and versatile... now it is a level based booooring grind.
Used to be unique, now it is cookie-cutter copy-of-a-copy gameplay.
Run, don't walk away from this game.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
LOL
Shayde
When was the last time you played? I thought you quit? How would you know?
ANY game can be a 'grind' if you let it. ANY game. Matrix, WOW, EQ, SWG, Ryzom... ANYTHING can turn into a grind if your ONLY goal is to get to XYZ level or XYZ template or XYZ skill or XYZ Cash Ammt (EVE)
But:
Any game can also just be FUN
Grinding, in ANY game, is a choice. SWG doesn't force players to grind. There is tons to do without ever even thinking about grinding if players just choose to enjoy the game instead of trying to reach X template as quickly as possible.
Just a clue: The game isn't any more fun as a Jedi than it was as a Novice Scout/whatever. So enjoy the JOURNEY and STOP GRINDING!
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
The game IS a grind, because if you aren't CL80, you're as good as dead.
It used to be that any character could do just about anything they wanted without worring about their combat level. Crafters could check harvesters without getting killed by mobs, People could solo-hunt without worring about dying when you aggro more than one mob.
Now everything is based on your combat level.
Now you have to grind to 80 to survive.
You never had to do that before. NEVER had to master a damn thing you didn't want to. You could be a Musician, artisan and smuggler... and not give up anything. Now if you aren't a double combat master you're as good as dead.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Um... you don't play post CU, you've admitted as much.
You do *NOT* have to be CL80 to survive. Not by a long shot. You do have to be CL80 to SOLO some things but you can solo OTHER things just fine at CL20 if you really want to. CL80 isn't a requirement, it's a goal.
I know you don't believe this... or you do and you're just blindly bashing because you just hate the game now... but the truth is that CL80 is NOT NECESSARY to have fun in this game. And it's certainly not necessary to "survive". I will agree that if you want to PVP you need to master at least one combat profession but, again, you don't have to be CL80. This is especially true for PVP because in PVP the CL isn't taken into account for accuracy/dmg/etc... CL only applies to PVE (unless that's been changed within the past month).
As to gear: There isn't a single weapon in the game that requires more than CL54.
SWG is about as far from a 'grinder' game as they come. Yes, I liked the skill system better before. But the CL system didn't break the game at all. In fact it made many things better. That's personal oppinion though. Some folks liked the new method better, some folks liked the old better. Potato Potato.
Come to think about it: I had more fun at CL20-70 than I did at CL80.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Where did you pull the "Didn't play post CU" out of, your ass? I beta tested that mess, I quit in protest, but returned a month later to help some friends, and because Sony ate Matrix and it was only 6 bucks more.
And 6 bucks is maybe what that mess is worth.
You NEED CL80 to do any of the crap they call content... that is unless you join a group of fighter types and hide behind them praying to not get one-shotted due to your pathetic lack of HP.
The made the combat suck. All predetermined by combat level, and if you aren't in a group, you die.
The CU killed everything that was fun about this game.
Versatility - Gone
Lack of grind - Gone
Soloability - gone
Stability - gone
6 player classes - useless
Combat "Balance" - HAHAHAHAAH You gotta be kidding.
Yeah... I quit this mess. I finally decided it wasn't worth 6 dollars. Too bad I have a month and a half of free time left from transferring MxO over.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
NOOO!!! Stay AWAY!!!! SAVE YOUR TIME AND MONEY!!!! the only thing Star Wars About the game is the NAME!!!
I call BS
Lack of Grind - There is no grind. Unless you create one yourself. There is no need. NONE to reach CL80. I started a new character on a new server after the CU simply because so many people kept saying how hard it was to level after the CU. They are full of it. Once you learn the new system it's just as easy as before to solo as long as you have some healer in your template. Don't believe me? Go start a nov medic / nov combat / nov anything else and you CAN and WILL be successful at solo play.
Soloability - No it's not gone. I solo'd that new character we just discussed up to CL80. Never once joined a group. Never once got PL'd.
Stability - Gone? What are you smoking? I haven't had a CTD in ages in SWG. What is your definition of "stability"? The game is stable.
Which 6 player classes are useless please? I can think of ONE that has legit issues. I can't think of a single prof that is "useless". Please enlighten me?
Combat Balance: Do you PVP? PVP is MUCH more balanced now than Pre CU. And Jedi aren't as all-powerful as they once were either. They're still annoying 1 on 1 and even in small group. But in large scale combat they're not too bad (if you can tolerate the idea of an army of Jedi, which I can't.
The game is stable, solid, has depth, is balanced and does NOT have a grind unless you put one in yourself by thinking that you have to be CL80 to "survive". (patently false, you dont' even need to be CL80 on Dathomir).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Still in: A couple Betas
Elnator
Sorry bro, the game is stable for you and for me and for alot of people but there is still that one group of people that finally had to do what I did (Switch to linux) or quit the game because of instability. Several came back after the CU only to find the original problems are still causing them to crash eventhough their systems far exceed the reqs and they have all the right set ups. But they are a small minority (Only a thousand players or so) so SOE and LA wont be jumping on this issue anytime soon.
And combat isnt completely balanced. Its closer then ever before to being balanced but its still FOTM and Temp stacking so its still not 100%. Probably around 75% now compared to the Pre-CU 20% though. LOL
Kai
Kai,
Let's see
About 1,000 players out of the millions who have played or tried the game is not something that is likely server side. That's likely CLIENT side instabilities from Bios issues to firmware drivers to software drivers to bad components on the PC or just about anything else. It's not SOE's job to troubleshoot the user's workstation. But, for arguement's sake, I'll agree to dissagree here. Neither of us knows the problem history well enough to honestly say this CANT be a client issue or it CANT be some wierd code issue on the server (though I doubt it since the server side code doesn't CARE about the workstation). You proved that it's probably a software issue on the workstation yourself when you said something to the affect of:
"I had some stability issues and then I switched to Linux running WINE and all my client problems went away. "
That alone should tell you that the stability issues are NOT with the SWG client or servers but with the workstation software/hardware/firmware/bios.
As to combat balance: When you can combine so many different potential templates it will *never* be perfectly balanced. There will always be the potential to create a dud template or a template that's innately stronger than another. The only way to avoid this would be to make every template the same (yawn!!!). It could be a bit better than it is now but I'll honestlly say that, having played NUMEROUS PVP enabled games, SWG has the best PVP balance of any of them with the possible exception of EVE Online.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Actually the real ironic thing is about 6 months after game release one guy, a programmer, RE'd his client and found it was a fault of the client and Windows on some configurations. And the configurations were wide spread enough to encompass several different system builds.
He even found a fix for it that would have taken SOE and LA all of 5 minutes to adjust and then patch with everything else. For a month he tried emailing them and getting them to make this adjustment.
Finally he gave up and posted it on the Tech Support Forums. What did he get for his trouble? Banned for REing their client. Great company we have here folks. And a year later SOE gladly uses a fix for sabers (JEDI JEDI JEDI) from a programmer fan and he doesnt get banned.
Oh and I doubt millions have played this game. If they only sold 1 million franchizes which could mean anything under 1 million with them including JTL and ROTW into the mix then its far less. Probably around 500k users over the 2.25 years its been out.
Kai
I am getting a bit tired of all the nonsense post from "resident expert Shayde". Its one thing to not like SWG and let people know the cons of the game .. its another to just spam plain nonsense or made up stuff.
This is just one more of these posts ....
here is an example to shoot down his theory. My main toon is a crafter fighter hybrid at combat level 60. I can do at least 70 % of all content in the game EASILY. By preparing (buff, food, drink, armor, spice) and maybe adding some medic to my template I can do 85-90 % of all content. 8 % of the remaining 10 % I can do quite easily in a group. Leaves 2 % ... like DWB lower levels ... which I COULD do in a group, but the group would be better off having a true CL 80 fighter instead of me. So ... 2 % out of 100 % would better be done by someone with level 80 instead of 60.
What he overlooks is that some content that he believes to be fighting only can be done with plain tactics ... burst running, feigning death, using camo and mask scent etc. But that would involve THINKING ....
Have fun
Erillion
That's like claiming you can fly...
But you know.. you gotta be up high.. with a glider.. and an updraft.. with no rain... and a pull plane.. and lessons..
You are just finding the slight exception hybrid template that breaks the rule. The one loophole "Eat a ton of spices, food, have a line of CM, Feign Death, camoflage, a group of jedi around you, Jesus statue on your keyboard.. and you too can survive not being CL80"
So your wacky example aside... if you aren't CL80, you're still in a group praying you don't get one shotted.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Shayde your an idiot and a troll.
All CL's do prefectly fine, solo and grouped.
As I have said multiple times:
I actually had more fun BEFORE I reached CL80 because there was MUCH more to do before CL80. Once you're CL80 a lot of the content isn't all that great anymore because it's not as much of a challenge. That's *my* biggest complaint about the CL system. It makes old places that you once loved to go to pointless.
There are maybe 3 places in the game that I couldn't go as a CL60 that I could as a CL80
1) DWB
2) Corvette (and I COULD go there with a solid group as long as I was careful and, yes, there was the fear of being 1-shotted there).
3) Avatar Platform - And that was do-able at 60... Just risky. No 1 hit deaths at all.
See, Shayde, you are so violently hating of the game that you refuse to see reality. The vast majority of the content in SWG is geared towards those CL54 and below (single elite combat profession). CL80 is a double-elite combat profession and it's NOT necessary to succeed in the game. Hell most people in the Jedi Villiage working on their Jedi are below CL80 Go figure.
You can rant and rave about CL80 all you want but the bottom line is that over 90% of the things you can do in the game don't require anything more than CL54 and over 70% don't even require that. The game is VERY fun, in fact I had the MOST fun, at lower skill levels.
YOUR problem is that you are hyper-obsessed with the Combat Level system.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Still in: A couple Betas
Eri
Sorry but this game is geared for Jedi. Anyone can see it if they try. The developers care about only one thing. Getting you, me, and every player to grind out jedi. That guaruntees them a 6 - 12 month paid account. This is why other professions level so fast. This is why jedi get treated with kid gloves while other players are banned first time out for the same infractions. Not everyone will fall for the advertising scheme but they are trying to get us all to grind jedi. I almost wish everyone would grind jedi. Give them exactly what they want and watch this game crash and burn.
Several months ago a developer asked what players wanted to see in the GCW. The general consensus was wanting to see jedi taken out of the GCW and the game. So the developer's reply? Something like "From what I reading here, you all want jedi to have a higher purpose in the GCW right?". That would only come from a game developer trying to protect his precious jedi.
Oh and that 6 jedi pics out of 40 for TOW???? 6 pics with jedi. Where is the 6 pics with creature handlers? How about the 6 pics with scouts? Maybe 6 pics with heavy swordsman? Same reason one of the JTL promo videos had more jedi screentime then the ships.
They are also putting a jedi temple on Mustafar. Who wants to take bets it has jedi only content on it?
Kai
Come on, if this game is all about Jedi where is all the content to back that claim up. The vast majoroty of it has nothing to do with Jedi. The only thing making the game Jedi centric are those obsessed with being one and they simply spend most of their time grinding (ignoring the content).
There are already (unused) Jedi/Sith Temples in the game, they are POI and don't have Jedi only content. So what makes you feel the new one will?
Because they have already said there will be a new lava crystal for lightsabers. While it might be for everyone I seriously doubt it.
Here is how it works. Let me give you the crash course on Jedi Advertising 101. Player Newb decides to look at SWG. He sees some screens on the mainpage (One person counted them and found out that there is at least one jedi freatured screen every 7 shots supposedly) and even sees the videos that are salted with serious jedi leanings.
He gets the game. In the tutorial he sees two more jedi. Once he hits the main game he is literally pounded and hammered by the Jedi Adverts. Everytime one of those Llamas whips out his lightsaber he is effectively an Amway Salesman for SWG. So Player Newb sees these jedi that are everywhere. He sees them taking on rancors with ease. Sees them act as a Spinner in a group. Sees them slaughter players in mass groups.
He gets hooked. After all he just leveled his toon in just a few days (maybe a week if he was smart) so he can either pick a new profession and go check out the content he already passed by, or he can just go jedi. SOE and LA Marketing just got themselves yet another guarunteed 6 month paid account to add to the rest. And thus ends the lesson in Jedi Advertising 101.
Kai
We won't know until reports from beta (or launch), but personally I feel those will be rewards given to all. Just like force crystals, pearls and the one from RotW (which I can't remember the name of) are.
There is no denying Jedi are a marketing tool, or that they are highly desired. The fact is that to be one you don't play the game, you grind. That is a poor game mechanism, yes. However, saying the game is based around them is inaccurate. There is very little content revolving around Jedi, namely the village. The rest of the game is entirely open to every other profession. Being a Jedi is player choice, just like how long it takes to get there. If they decide to grind so they can reach full template in the shortest time that is their choice, their grind, their problem.
The grind was supposed to be the deterrent and a means of keeping numbers low. However, we all know that didn't work as the desire to be a Jedi (to the majority) is to great. SoE's down fall is that there isn't any deterrent in place, that wouldn't prevent the demand and desires of the players. They should have stuck with there original parma-death and blue glowy ideas, to even make an impact.
They want you to go jedi. They want you to grind it out. So they do subtle things to make you want to do it. You think its your own desire but 90% of the time they got you to do it. Dont think people are immune to marketing. These guys make a science out of getting you to buy things you dont need.
How many times have you heard or read posts from people who want to play but have no desire to go jedi and 3 months later you find out they are grinding jedi?
How many times has someone said they would grind for the extra slot but never go jedi then you see them in their jedi robes and lightsaber running through the mining outpost grinding up the jedi trees?
Kai
Kai, I think we are actually in agreement over this (i.e. Jedi were a bad idea) aside from one thing.
subjectively, you feel SoE/LA are forcing you to ignore game content in preference to grinding a profession that will take a long time to master so that they can retain your monthly fee.
While subjectively, I feel SoE/LA thought Jedi were a cool thing to have and because of player demand changed (yes, $) their implementation plans. I honestly don't think they expected people to become so focused on them that they ignored next to everything but grinding. However that in itself is and was a vast oversight.
I also don't have a Jedi and never want one, even after two years. As they destroy one's gameplay to much.
Ok let me give you my last bit of proof that this game centers on jedi and grinding.
Ever since the holocrons started falling and the grind started, everyone could see this was bad for the game. I knew it. I still did it but even I knew this wasnt good. And now grinding is hurting this game even more. Its doing major damage and each week it continues it kills a little bit more of the game. I know it. You know it. Even jedi know it. They wont admit it but they know it. I am sure if Erillion put down the SOE Propoganda sheet long enough even he would know it. So everyone knows it. Even SOE and LA knows.
Yet SOE and LA do nothing to stop it. Why? This is slowing killing their game and still they even condone it. Why? Because they want it. They want us to become a jedi. They want us all to give them that guarunteed paid account. Their own inaction is proof. And when I say inaction I mean complete blindness of what is happening.
But SOE is starting to spin the thing. As I said before. I have noticed a decided turn in their language when referencing the jedi. Occasionally they slip with phrases like "They were meant to be rare" etc. Which shows me they are beginning to wake up and see just how badly they FUBAR this game. I think they are beginning to see numbers dropping alot more then we know. Maybe they are just tired of dealing with this type of l33t haxxor customer they have created. I dont know. But I think the Doctor is about to kill his Monster.... in a manner of speaking.
Kai
I've been seeing the same thing. It's like a small revolt going on there. The middle management says things are impossible, they are not going to be done, Jedi are fine etc etc.
Then the low level teams go ahead and make the posts that they are changing it anyway.
I honestly think they are trying to save this game now, and it does need saving. As it stands today, it's still only interactive graphics, with little to no game play possibilities.
For those that keep spouting that there is no grind, I would remind you that several of the developers in beta would make repeated statements that the idea was to have fun at your skill level, not to be forced to level beyond it to find that fun. This is an error that they are correcting in my opinion. If the skill level isn't fun, then it's a grind to get past it no matter how long it takes.
It's not necessarily all about time-to-max-level, but it's about the TRIP THERE. This is where I find no game play whatsoever. Rush off, kill stuff, ding a skill box. It's boring.
How many people here are tired of Bol-hunting?
That's the point. Any idiot can join a Bol group and level those boxes quickly. But this has nothing at all to do with Star Wars, and this is the primary issue in my opinion. They have not provided the feel of the SW universe in the game play, and the game play is what it's all about.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
All the employees involved in this game need to
1) Sit down and watch the movies
2) play KOTOR
3) read a book or 2
Then they may get a clue as to what the genre is about
Until that happens, they are still just winging it and guessing.