How does his post make him look like a ganker? I have role played characters in PVP who killed on sight such as a dark elf in EQ that killed any Elf he came across. I roleplayed the whole time saying the things that a dark elf might say while killing an elf like "Dolt! I do not suffer the likes of elves lightly. Pay the price for your foolishness!" (over the top but roleplaying none the less). Before you tell me to read the novels, I have, including the Sillmarillion and various lost tales, many times. You are utterly wrong about anyone serving Sauron having no will what so ever. Saruman was supposedly under the influence of Sauron but still tried to take the ring for himself. The orcs in the tower of Cirith Ungol argued and openly fought each other even within the borders of Mordor. Not to mention the fact that there were other evils and corrupt people in the world that were not under the direct control of Sauron like Bill Ferny, The Balrog, Shelob, the Dunlandings. Also there is the matter of Thingol being killed by the Dwarves or Nogrod killing Thingol and sacking of Menegroth, not to mention The Kinslaying "The first slaying of Elf by Elf, in which the followers of F
You carebears noobies out there need to realize that coping with "the gank" makes you a better player overall. You learn to not only anticipate what a player might do but it also helps in that mind numbing PVE state that so many of the noobs get accustomed to. If they make several servers like WoW that are PvP based and vise versa, then all the confounded whinning will cease.
Experience is the excuse everyone gives there mistakes
In my opinion PVP does not fit the lore of tolkien, I know that not all think or feel the way i do. I do not consider myself a CAREBEAR NOOOBIE. I PVP in games that have pvp, I participate in the differant aspects of a game according to how i feel. I do not gank low lvl players, but i will stand my ground and fight in a game with pvp. I do not see this game as a carebear game i see it for what it is, a game based on the lore of tolkien and a chance to explore middle earth. Now if turbine was to decide that pvp was suitable for this game, though i would feel it wasn't lore appropriate, I would accept that it was in the game. It is just a game feature. But turbine in there ultimate wisdom (being that they have the last word) have decided against pvp as we know it. They have said they are working on other alternatives to pvp so lets wait and see what they come up with. Plus for the record no matter what they do there will be whinning, as there is with every game cause there is noway to please everyone.
The logical thing to do is to release PVP and make Goblins, Orcs, Uruk-Hai, Trolls, Easterlings and Southrons, playable when Mordor is released. Have the Free Races vs the Minions of Sauron only PVP. That would be logical and satisfy the need for PVP. There is NOTHING better that well role-played PVP and nothing worse than GANKING.
Originally posted by cromulent The logical thing to do is to release PVP and make Goblins, Orcs, Uruk-Hai, Trolls, Easterlings and Southrons, playable when Mordor is released. Have the Free Races vs the Minions of Sauron only PVP. That would be logical and satisfy the need for PVP. There is NOTHING better that well role-played PVP and nothing worse than GANKING.
Yess this does make sense but i forsee one problem with that, If they were to wait until the release of mordor which could be possibly years down the road we will hear this. Why do the good guys get years to develope there caracters and we evil don't???? They got an unfair advantage over us. They are high lvl and we aren't. There will always be whining no matter what is done by either side. Then what do you do after the defeat of sauron??? My understanding is they are working on a pvp system unlike any we have seen so who knows what will happen.
The more I think about it, the more I think it's necessary for the Dev's to eventually include a way for players to be in those epic battles. No better way than to create a RvR system, release playable evil races and set up combat 'zones', for the battles to take place. Enter the zone, you're flagged PvP.
Granted, to fit the time line, anything like that wouldn't be released till the 3rd or 4th X-Pack, so maybe 2 yrs after the game goes Live, so you've got Grindalyx's arguments to contend with.
Just include Evil playable races sooner, preferably at release, but that's not happening.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
Originally posted by Ngeldu5t There are those who discovered LOTR through the movies and the others who read the books several times.Tolkien books is about valor,friendship,ordinary people dealing with extraordinary situation.The movies were great but they also have some Hollywood quirks like Arwen`s charater but the game will remain close to the spirit and the soul of the books and I don`t think Tolkien Enterprise will allow anyone to make the evil side win.this game will not be a frag fest but a true RPG set in Middle Earth.All evil creatures are puppets under Sauron`s will which means no PvP.I can`t imagine gankers in Hobbiton.I can`t wait to play the game and be immersed in Middle Earth...read the books and you will understand and the light of Valinor shines on you
I beg to differ with you in terms of all evil creatures being zombies waiting for Sauron's will to guide them. Many, are, many, are not. Saruman, while influenced by Sauron initially, tried to take the ring for himself. Many orcs fought over what to do, they weren't the borg, mindlessly shuffling to the beat of one mind. Don't forget about things like the Kinslaying and Dwarves killing elves because they coveted the jewels they had set for them. Humans killed Hobbits and Hobbits killed humans in the scouring of the shire and this was AFTER Sauron was destroyed. I'm not saying Hobbits should be allowed to kill Hobbits but there should be race based PVP. The easyiest way to do it would be have Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Western Humans on one team and Goblins, Orcs, Trolls and Southern and Eastern Humans on another. Im not saying they SHOULD do this or that they will just that it seems like a workable compromise to me. They could have a few servers set up like that and the rest no pvp. I persoanlly would play on a whichever server had the best roleplaying but also had pvp.
This is an aurgument that can never be won by either side. There are valid aurguments on both sides. Though the kinslayings and anything that was told in the silmarillion can't be used in this game cause they have no rights to using that info. Yes at the end of the LoTR the hobbits fought to take there land back from the evil men that sarumon had led there to take them over. No all evil did not die with the end of sauron, Evil is always about as long as there are beings who want to control others, Melkor the source of all evil was not destroyed only locked away.
I am sure that Turbine has a huge headache over this whole subject. No matter what they do they will not please everyone and will hear from someone how they are ruining the game. I look at it this way, for rpg i will play LOTRO and for PVP i will play DnL. Two games that will give me what i desire of a game at differant times depending on my mood and how i want to play at the time.
There is an easy way to please everyone. Have some PVP servers and mostly non PVP servers. I can't see why this wouldn't work. EQ1 did this quite effectively.
Originally posted by cromulent There is an easy way to please everyone. Have some PVP servers and mostly non PVP servers. I can't see why this wouldn't work. EQ1 did this quite effectively.
See that really doesn't fix the problem with it not fitting with the Lore now does it. Unless the PVP servers are just random matches that are just jumbled together. What people don't understand is that Tolkiens already made the world and theres no way to bend the rules. To a certain extent PVP in WOW doesn't make sense to the Warcraft Lore, because Blizzard doesn't even bother to make up an excuse for Horde and Alliance fighting each other again, but Blizzard can do that if LOTRO does that the Tolkien society will be sure to have their heads.
Originally posted by Dvias You carebears noobies out there need to realize that coping with "the gank" makes you a better player overall. You learn to not only anticipate what a player might do but it also helps in that mind numbing PVE state that so many of the noobs get accustomed to. If they make several servers like WoW that are PvP based and vise versa, then all the confounded whinning will cease.
I don't buy the argument that PvP makes a better player. I think that the style of PvP so many want, FFA, takes away from the game as a whole. Sure, the player begins to watch closer for what another player may do, until most of their game experience revolves around that. Social aspects can break down when players begin going out of their way to avoid other players in order to get a quest done, so they can get some cool loot or whatever. The main theme and story threaded through the game gets forgotten. In short, the game becomes a very open and expensive FPS. If I wanted that, I'd go back to playing Call of Duty.
An MMO for me includes the spirit of community. Meeting other players and developing gaming friendships. Enjoying seeing the environment and everything in it the Dev's have crafted. Playing through a well-written and engaging story-line. Virtual murder and lording my l33tness over others doesn't appeal to me. I already have a healthy self-esteem.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
Originally posted by cromulent What problem with the lore are you referring to?
Thats why most people at these boards say their should still be PVP. Tolkien would have not allowed players to play as Orcs if he was making a MMORPG right now. It serves no purpose who wants to play as one man in the legions of servants bound to obtain one goal, choke the enemy in their blood. Theirs no fun in being the Grunt. You would never be able to reach a high enough rank as a Servant of Sauron and keep it. Orcs killed each other, they don't like following orders. The only way you would be able to get those under you to follow you would be to kill a couple of them every day. Orcs serve under fear and nothing more. Theirs also the promblem that their are only orcs in Eriador and no other factions their. The game is set only in a peice of Middle-Earth. Later they will make more expansion packs to expand upon.
I have to agree about no pvp, without pvp the game is just going to be a multiplayer storybook with no role play added in. It is the primary downfall of all mmo's.
Without players playing the oppositions the world cannot evolve past what the designers made, the game will simply be a massive multiplayer console style rpg, you simply changed from 1-4 players to thousands.
Killing NPC's and being all about that just makes no sense when you think about the fact there is no recognition of heroism aside from by an npc, which all of these npc's are just little scripts in the program!
Your throwing away chances of massive battles over middle earth, quests that actually mean something, seriously I cannot grasp whatsoever being as veteran of an mmo gamer why anyone would want to degress to the state of not even playing an online game at all.
at least in a 1 player final fantasy a person can feel like its solely his/her storyline! Sure there are more aspects of these games than pvp but taking it out is by far one of the most idiotic things of all time.
Oh and this NONSENSE about the enemies being without a will is just silly, That just makes more for the player to role play! The biggest problem with mmo's is that people get the game and do not rp! If you wanna make a Middle earth Level Grinder be my guest but it takes the entire point of of an mmo!
Lets fight for territories, make powerful wizards.. take the level grinding out to some degree and fill the game with exciting things, make the quests long epics that give several levels along the way and eventually a herioc level of recognition.
Please do a little research on the game, the Developer's and their decisions to include, or exclude, certain things in the game. Doing this will make you look a little more intelligent and help your arguments.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
PVP is disappearing everywhere, including SWG. I used to see Jedi's in duels with Master Combat Medics and getting no where so they would send a tell to their Jedi friends to come in and gank the Master CM. I would automatically know what their age was.
PVP between a Bounty Hunter and their mark is expected, other than that it's usefullness in most RPG's is unneeded except for pre-pubescent males to feel better about themselves or think it's funny to walk around and gank other players when in RL they are the biggest lunch money victims one has ever seen.
I PVP'ed only a few times in SWG and that was only because I had to and every time they would always whine and complain when they were lying on the ground and I was clicking the Deathblow. PVP causes more problems in the player community than it is worth.
Hope LoTR is every bit as good as the books and hope to see you all there for a great time.
I could accept unrestricted PvP in this game if it was about a world in total anarchy. A world where there is no law and citizens are free to prey and kill each other for no reason. Much like whats going on in France right now.
But this isnt a world of PvP total anarchy. This is a world of nations with laws. Proud races such as Elves and Dwarves. Does combat exist in this world? Sure it does. But it's combat between 2 factions. The evil races vs. the races of the Free People. And right now you cant play the Evil races. So if you're only allowed to play the races of the Free People then who are you gonna fight if there's PvP? It wouldnt fit the game for Elves to be killing Elves.
Originally posted by Darktania I could accept unrestricted PvP in this game if it was about a world in total anarchy. A world where there is no law and citizens are free to prey and kill each other for no reason. Much like whats going on in France right now.
But this isnt a world of PvP total anarchy. This is a world of nations with laws. Proud races such as Elves and Dwarves. Does combat exist in this world? Sure it does. But it's combat between 2 factions. The evil races vs. the races of the Free People. And right now you cant play the Evil races. So if you're only allowed to play the races of the Free People then who are you gonna fight if there's PvP? It wouldnt fit the game for Elves to be killing Elves.
You're right it's not.
But there is something that the world of Middle Earth IS. And that's one that is uniting against a very serious threat in Sauron and his forces. Entire races are setting aside long-standing differences in order to overcome this threat.
Any PvP in LOTRO would completely fly in the face of this, causing a major theme through the books to become irrelevant.
PvP just doesn't belong. I don't understand how some of these people can actually think that there is so much evidence supporting their claim that PvP does belong.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
Alot of people have said that using the excuse that orcs and trolls and other evil creatures were under saurons control is bogus, Though they fail to realize that without saurons influence they had no reason to fight and weren't driven to do so. At the end of the LOTR when gullom falls into the crack of doom taking the one ring with him and sauron is defeated the orcs at this point stop fighting and fled for there lifes cause they had no commander to direct them. Yes sauron was there commander, he told them what to do, were to attack, and thru the fear of his wrath the orcs though they complained about him and fought amoungst themselves did what he said.
After the fall of sauron the orcs died out along with the trolls. Goblins also fall under this catagory since they were a smaller breed of orc. And for those who say that the orcs were around after he was defeated by Ilisadur and the ring was taken from him. Sauron was not defeated then just merely diminished. He was thru all of the LoTR seeking the ring to complete his power.
Yes there were southerners who hated the men of the west, the men of gondor because they listened to sauron and his lies. Most of them at saurons fall dropped there weapons and fled, some banded togethere and fought until they were defeated. Still there is no reason for pvp in this game. None of the evil caracters are playable so there is no reason to argue that there should be pvp when there is no foe to fight against. And after the fall of sauron and the orcs die out and king elessar (aragorn) makes peace with the southerners who is there to be the evil side of the confilct?
Saruman is killed in the shire at the end of the book by wormtounge so he can't lead the evil to fight. It just don't make sense to have the free people willy nilly killing each other cause someone wants to prove how 1337 they are. We can't have everything in life and i am sorry to say to all you PVPer's that this is one thing you won't get. Turbine is looking into alternate forms of pvp that will fit the lore of the books. now what this meens who knows. But i know we will eventually fing out.
All I have to say is remember City of Heros and that it didn't have PVP at the beginning and did very well, and now has City of Villians and now you have PVP. The game doesn't even have Beta yet and we have people saying they won't play...............GROW UP
Originally posted by Compgeek All I have to say is remember City of Heros and that it didn't have PVP at the beginning and did very well, and now has City of Villians and now you have PVP. The game doesn't even have Beta yet and we have people saying they won't play...............GROW UP
I was surprised that CoH didn't include PvP out of the gate. It seems to me that it is very difficult to have any kind of questing in an Urban, Modern setting. Questing just isn't done. Chain missions can get very boring and pointless. And since CoH's story line was so thin, I was sure the game would have a hard time. Obviously I was proved wrong, although the game did bore me to tears, I cancelled after 5 weeks (I gave it enough of a shot).
LOTRO, on the other hand is complete opposite. An Epic and rich storyline, with a very vibrant world. There's no need to pull out the PvP crutch to attract subscribers.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
At first glance, when I looked at these boards I thought that it was some feast full of a whole bunch of people that didn't understand Tolkien's world and complained for no reason but their own insecurity about their inability to fight without PVP, but now with these last few post it has helped me understand that their is still hope at these boards and its not full of a whole bunch of people who dislike LOTRO and don't have the courage to post at the official boards. Although these people might exist, I am glad that these boards have more than a bunch of "Hack and Slash Humans but not computers" Addicts.
Comments
Experience is the excuse everyone gives there mistakes
maybe some beautiful day they will add pvp or a battleground
The logical thing to do is to release PVP and make Goblins, Orcs, Uruk-Hai, Trolls, Easterlings and Southrons, playable when Mordor is released. Have the Free Races vs the Minions of Sauron only PVP. That would be logical and satisfy the need for PVP. There is NOTHING better that well role-played PVP and nothing worse than GANKING.
The more I think about it, the more I think it's necessary for the Dev's to eventually include a way for players to be in those epic battles. No better way than to create a RvR system, release playable evil races and set up combat 'zones', for the battles to take place. Enter the zone, you're flagged PvP.
Granted, to fit the time line, anything like that wouldn't be released till the 3rd or 4th X-Pack, so maybe 2 yrs after the game goes Live, so you've got Grindalyx's arguments to contend with.
Just include Evil playable races sooner, preferably at release, but that's not happening.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
Originally posted by Ngeldu5t
There are those who discovered LOTR through the movies and the others who read the books several times.Tolkien books is about valor,friendship,ordinary people dealing with extraordinary situation.The movies were great but they also have some Hollywood quirks like Arwen`s charater but the game will remain close to the spirit and the soul of the books and I don`t think Tolkien Enterprise will allow anyone to make the evil side win.this game will not be a frag fest but a true RPG set in Middle Earth.All evil creatures are puppets under Sauron`s will which means no PvP.I can`t imagine gankers in Hobbiton
I beg to differ with you in terms of all evil creatures being zombies waiting for Sauron's will to guide them. Many, are, many, are not. Saruman, while influenced by Sauron initially, tried to take the ring for himself. Many orcs fought over what to do, they weren't the borg, mindlessly shuffling to the beat of one mind. Don't forget about things like the Kinslaying and Dwarves killing elves because they coveted the jewels they had set for them. Humans killed Hobbits and Hobbits killed humans in the scouring of the shire and this was AFTER Sauron was destroyed. I'm not saying Hobbits should be allowed to kill Hobbits but there should be race based PVP. The easyiest way to do it would be have Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Western Humans on one team and Goblins, Orcs, Trolls and Southern and Eastern Humans on another. Im not saying they SHOULD do this or that they will just that it seems like a workable compromise to me. They could have a few servers set up like that and the rest no pvp. I persoanlly would play on a whichever server had the best roleplaying but also had pvp.
This is an aurgument that can never be won by either side. There are valid aurguments on both sides. Though the kinslayings and anything that was told in the silmarillion can't be used in this game cause they have no rights to using that info. Yes at the end of the LoTR the hobbits fought to take there land back from the evil men that sarumon had led there to take them over. No all evil did not die with the end of sauron, Evil is always about as long as there are beings who want to control others, Melkor the source of all evil was not destroyed only locked away.
I am sure that Turbine has a huge headache over this whole subject. No matter what they do they will not please everyone and will hear from someone how they are ruining the game. I look at it this way, for rpg i will play LOTRO and for PVP i will play DnL. Two games that will give me what i desire of a game at differant times depending on my mood and how i want to play at the time.
There is an easy way to please everyone. Have some PVP servers and mostly non PVP servers. I can't see why this wouldn't work. EQ1 did this quite effectively.
What problem with the lore are you referring to?
I don't buy the argument that PvP makes a better player. I think that the style of PvP so many want, FFA, takes away from the game as a whole. Sure, the player begins to watch closer for what another player may do, until most of their game experience revolves around that. Social aspects can break down when players begin going out of their way to avoid other players in order to get a quest done, so they can get some cool loot or whatever. The main theme and story threaded through the game gets forgotten. In short, the game becomes a very open and expensive FPS. If I wanted that, I'd go back to playing Call of Duty.
An MMO for me includes the spirit of community. Meeting other players and developing gaming friendships. Enjoying seeing the environment and everything in it the Dev's have crafted. Playing through a well-written and engaging story-line. Virtual murder and lording my l33tness over others doesn't appeal to me. I already have a healthy self-esteem.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
Thats why most people at these boards say their should still be PVP. Tolkien would have not allowed players to play as Orcs if he was making a MMORPG right now. It serves no purpose who wants to play as one man in the legions of servants bound to obtain one goal, choke the enemy in their blood. Theirs no fun in being the Grunt. You would never be able to reach a high enough rank as a Servant of Sauron and keep it. Orcs killed each other, they don't like following orders. The only way you would be able to get those under you to follow you would be to kill a couple of them every day. Orcs serve under fear and nothing more. Theirs also the promblem that their are only orcs in Eriador and no other factions their. The game is set only in a peice of Middle-Earth. Later they will make more expansion packs to expand upon.
I have to agree about no pvp, without pvp the game is just going to be a multiplayer storybook with no role play added in. It is the primary downfall of all mmo's.
Without players playing the oppositions the world cannot evolve past what the designers made, the game will simply be a massive multiplayer console style rpg, you simply changed from 1-4 players to thousands.
Killing NPC's and being all about that just makes no sense when you think about the fact there is no recognition of heroism aside from by an npc, which all of these npc's are just little scripts in the program!
Your throwing away chances of massive battles over middle earth, quests that actually mean something, seriously I cannot grasp whatsoever being as veteran of an mmo gamer why anyone would want to degress to the state of not even playing an online game at all.
at least in a 1 player final fantasy a person can feel like its solely his/her storyline! Sure there are more aspects of these games than pvp but taking it out is by far one of the most idiotic things of all time.
Oh and this NONSENSE about the enemies being without a will is just silly, That just makes more for the player to role play! The biggest problem with mmo's is that people get the game and do not rp! If you wanna make a Middle earth Level Grinder be my guest but it takes the entire point of of an mmo!
Lets fight for territories, make powerful wizards.. take the level grinding out to some degree and fill the game with exciting things, make the quests long epics that give several levels along the way and eventually a herioc level of recognition.
MMO's have gone so downhill, time to wake up!
Wushuscholar
We Fight for our Rights as Paying Customers!
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
PVP is disappearing everywhere, including SWG. I used to see Jedi's in duels with Master Combat Medics and getting no where so they would send a tell to their Jedi friends to come in and gank the Master CM. I would automatically know what their age was.
PVP between a Bounty Hunter and their mark is expected, other than that it's usefullness in most RPG's is unneeded except for pre-pubescent males to feel better about themselves or think it's funny to walk around and gank other players when in RL they are the biggest lunch money victims one has ever seen.
I PVP'ed only a few times in SWG and that was only because I had to and every time they would always whine and complain when they were lying on the ground and I was clicking the Deathblow. PVP causes more problems in the player community than it is worth.
Hope LoTR is every bit as good as the books and hope to see you all there for a great time.
I could accept unrestricted PvP in this game if it was about a world in total anarchy. A world where there is no law and citizens are free to prey and kill each other for no reason. Much like whats going on in France right now.
But this isnt a world of PvP total anarchy. This is a world of nations with laws. Proud races such as Elves and Dwarves. Does combat exist in this world? Sure it does. But it's combat between 2 factions. The evil races vs. the races of the Free People. And right now you cant play the Evil races. So if you're only allowed to play the races of the Free People then who are you gonna fight if there's PvP? It wouldnt fit the game for Elves to be killing Elves.
You're right it's not.
But there is something that the world of Middle Earth IS. And that's one that is uniting against a very serious threat in Sauron and his forces. Entire races are setting aside long-standing differences in order to overcome this threat.
Any PvP in LOTRO would completely fly in the face of this, causing a major theme through the books to become irrelevant.
PvP just doesn't belong. I don't understand how some of these people can actually think that there is so much evidence supporting their claim that PvP does belong.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
i gotaa sheak this game out
Alot of people have said that using the excuse that orcs and trolls and other evil creatures were under saurons control is bogus, Though they fail to realize that without saurons influence they had no reason to fight and weren't driven to do so. At the end of the LOTR when gullom falls into the crack of doom taking the one ring with him and sauron is defeated the orcs at this point stop fighting and fled for there lifes cause they had no commander to direct them. Yes sauron was there commander, he told them what to do, were to attack, and thru the fear of his wrath the orcs though they complained about him and fought amoungst themselves did what he said.
After the fall of sauron the orcs died out along with the trolls. Goblins also fall under this catagory since they were a smaller breed of orc. And for those who say that the orcs were around after he was defeated by Ilisadur and the ring was taken from him. Sauron was not defeated then just merely diminished. He was thru all of the LoTR seeking the ring to complete his power.
Yes there were southerners who hated the men of the west, the men of gondor because they listened to sauron and his lies. Most of them at saurons fall dropped there weapons and fled, some banded togethere and fought until they were defeated. Still there is no reason for pvp in this game. None of the evil caracters are playable so there is no reason to argue that there should be pvp when there is no foe to fight against. And after the fall of sauron and the orcs die out and king elessar (aragorn) makes peace with the southerners who is there to be the evil side of the confilct?
Saruman is killed in the shire at the end of the book by wormtounge so he can't lead the evil to fight. It just don't make sense to have the free people willy nilly killing each other cause someone wants to prove how 1337 they are. We can't have everything in life and i am sorry to say to all you PVPer's that this is one thing you won't get. Turbine is looking into alternate forms of pvp that will fit the lore of the books. now what this meens who knows. But i know we will eventually fing out.
All I have to say is remember City of Heros and that it didn't have PVP at the beginning and did very well, and now has City of Villians and now you have PVP. The game doesn't even have Beta yet and we have people saying they won't play...............GROW UP
I was surprised that CoH didn't include PvP out of the gate. It seems to me that it is very difficult to have any kind of questing in an Urban, Modern setting. Questing just isn't done. Chain missions can get very boring and pointless. And since CoH's story line was so thin, I was sure the game would have a hard time. Obviously I was proved wrong, although the game did bore me to tears, I cancelled after 5 weeks (I gave it enough of a shot).
LOTRO, on the other hand is complete opposite. An Epic and rich storyline, with a very vibrant world. There's no need to pull out the PvP crutch to attract subscribers.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
At first glance, when I looked at these boards I thought that it was some feast full of a whole bunch of people that didn't understand Tolkien's world and complained for no reason but their own insecurity about their inability to fight without PVP, but now with these last few post it has helped me understand that their is still hope at these boards and its not full of a whole bunch of people who dislike LOTRO and don't have the courage to post at the official boards. Although these people might exist, I am glad that these boards have more than a bunch of "Hack and Slash Humans but not computers" Addicts.