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My accurate predictions for this game.
BurningPain
Member Posts: 68
I will predict this game.
- 100% controlled PVP (no spontaneous pvp at all)
- Dedicated PVP zones so carebears will feel safety in non pvp zones.
- When you die in PVP you won't lose any of your loot (so you are protected)
- When you die in PVP you lose absolutely nothing.
- You gain reward from PVP after earning a certain number of points (like pacman).
- WOW Clone
- This game will be carebear.
- You won't be able to message your enemies in game thus defeating any type of roleplaying.
Since World of Warcraft is the King of carebear games Warhammer won't be able to compete and will fail over time.
This game will try and cater to weak minded players whose only interest is mindless PVE and items that take 9283091823 hours to get from a dungeon.
BurningPain
Comments
lol, it will be similar to DAoC, seeing as it is being made by the same people.
Mythic put in hardcore servers in DAoC for the 100 people that wanted to play that way.
Lineage2 has great graphics, you drop crap when you die and you can send tells to your enemies griefing them the whole time. It sounds like that game would be better for you.
But I'm confused about one thing, why would you want to be penalized for PvP(loosing loot) that deters PvP, doesn't promote it.
You are also against rewards from PvP. How does this equate to Pacman?
How does whispering your enemies hinder rolepaying?
Explain how this game will cater to "weak-minded players".
L2 you rarely drop items as a blue player. Red players drop items frequently. Items is what makes the character not skill. THerefore as a red player if you lose your items you have to have a strong tie with ebay in order to buy your items back, thus defeating the purpose of this game. L2 is a harsh grind for people who play 24/7 non stop (aka koreans).
Losing loot is fun, because if I kill 10 players in a row I amass great wealth in the game and I make true enemies when they feel the sting of losing their items.
THe best reward is when you kill a player and take their loot. I'm not interested in killing a bunch of players for points then using those points to receieve and item that did not once belong to another player. I like taking peoples loot and jacking them, that is fun.
Weak minded players. PVE is for the stupid and weak. This game is for people who play poker without betting any money and you know how stupid and non-risky that is.
Burningpain
Weak mind player?
That would apply far more to peoples who hide behind stats rather then play real PvP game where you can died in 1 blow.
PvE is something you will never understand, yet, for some twisted reason, you hide behind PvE system in order to PvP, tell me, who is weak mind? If I can't kill you in 1 single clean blow, then the game has 0 PvP appeal to me. HPS are not meant for PvP, they are by design for PvE. Hiding behind them is for the weak.
And guess what...in Warhammer, you can always kill an enemy with 1 blow! I dont mind if the PvE dont work like that, but if I PvP, it will be because it is done in a Warhammer style, 1 blow can kill anyone!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html
I would like it to be PVP styled as this is what MMOs should be like.
However in order to appease the masses you can expect there to be a safehaven for those scared of PVPing. I agree that there should be the ability to one hit kill people and that they should drop stuff as well. The only problem with this is that it like Lineage2 they are only now fixing the way its being done. When L2 first began a white/blue titled toon had the same chance to drop as a red. Its only now in Cronicles 3 that you can be less likely to drop depending on your PK counter and can do quests to reduce that as well.
I think it has the possibilities to be a good game so long as it takes aspects of DaOC and Lineage2 into acct.
The only thing I dont want to see if a mindless grind of missions and quests just to become the uber carebear on serverX. That would kill what could be a good game before it is even release IMO.
Your arguements make me very angry for some reasons.
Considering that the pvp system is designed as you explained (hypothetically), then really the only fair way for people to compete with eachother is in the beginning weeks of the game, when everyone is generally the same level. Otherwise, lets say you have a high level char., and you want to make a new char., but you want some good equiptment for him. Then the most logical idea would to gank some lower levels to gain the equiptment that they worked for.
This discourages lower level players, and will then in turn prevent them from telling people to get the game, which results in a lowered community where only the higher level players can compete.
-- Sure you think that "the best reward is when you kill a player and take their loot", but thats from your perspective - the player whom wins. If you played the game and throughout the entire first half of your leveling, you had to sneak past higher level gankers that have nothing to do but attack the lower levels, then you probably would complain.
Also, PvE is the FUNDAMENTAL of MMORPGS. Without PvE, the game turns into a third person counterstrike with wands and hammers.
Right now, all I believe that you conceive a good game to be is one that you have the chance of becoming "the most feared and powerful combatant". Although the concept fits into MMORPGS (right now I am just talking about fantasy type mmorpgs), the actual gameplay would lower the population and in turn either destroy the game or leave it with a tight-knit community in which everyone knows eachother.
One game in which this concept works is Planetside. Granted this is an fpsmmorpg, It is relies heavily on skill, so even a player that just joined a game could kill a veteren of 3 years. The system also works out so that you may take your oppositions weapons, but you do not need to worry about that, since you do not spend hours acquiring them.
I know it's long but I just had to say it.
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| www.40ksource.net - 40k MMO fansite
I would hate for this guy to be right in his predictions on cloning the rest im not worried about he is just talking to get people worked up.
I hate the companies that make these MMORPG's. They clone each others games like crazy because they are controlled by a bunch of old wealthy business types who care most about their income and little or nothing about the game they make. Do you think the head of Sony gives a **** about what some retarded everquest geek believes would improve the game? Do you think the head of sony even plays the game? Or even the manager over the game side of the corporation. I doubt Mythic is any different. I hope I am wrong because Warhammer is one of my favorite games. I have played the paper RPG for years. But i doubt we are going to see a new combat system worthy of the paper RPG's detail. More than likely we will see an exact replica of their lame DAoC combat system. And I am sure they arent going to spend the time to work out complex career backgrounds that determine how you should act with your character. Its way too early to make these kinds of assumptions but I cant help it its my pessimistic nature.
http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html
Right, they all copy each other's games...sure, except that Mythic was making mmorpg style games before you even knew what a computer was. These guys have quite some experience in making online games (and let's face it, DaoC is still the king of PvP).
And you talk about the "lame" combat system in DaoC. Name me one game that has a better system than DaoC (plz really, name one, I need a good laugh right now).
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Basil Fawlty: [to telephone operator] I've been trying to get through to the speaking clock... Well, it's engaged... Well, it's been engaged for ten minutes. How is this possible? My wife isn't talking to it.
Wow dont get so worked up. Your right I cant name a game with a better combat system because they ALL SUCK! You click on a monster or player and your character hits them the same way every time with minor variations and the ability to use a power attack or something that looks the same. And the monster or whatever dies the same way every time. It doesnt really even look like you hit them because the animations arent even synched to show if you are swinging a sword from right to left and hit a monster it dosent make the monster look like it was hit from the right. It just plays the same lame animation for the monster getting hit. I am saying that they need to put some variety into the combat and they can do this with hit locations like in the warhammer paper rpg which has been around long before Mythic was even a though in someone's head. Im not even saying they are a bad company. I just dont want them to screw up this game by changing the rules to make it work like DAoC.
You cant tell me that you wouldn't like to see a combat system where you click to attack but instead of the same thing over and over, the computer first rolls to see if you hit and then rolls to see where you hit and then, after taking armor in that location and the monsters toughness and wound points into account, the computer rolls on a damage chart to see what happens. If you do enough damage to kill then the monsters head or arm or leg goes flying off or even you stab them through with a sword depending on what part of the body took the damage. I think they have the technology for this now and this is supposed to be Mythics "Next" generation game. By then it will be on blu-ray DVD and the game could be like 30GB but thats not that bad considering most people have around 400GB on their computer at least. Even more by the time this game comes out.
The same can go for player deaths as well. I also dont know of a game where you have the ability to roll a critical hit and kill something with one hit which is very difficult but possible. This doesn't mean that your going to be running around killing bosses with one hit or getting killed with one hit like I said its very rare especially the more powerful you are or the monster is but possible. THe chance of killing a greater Demon of Khorne with one hit would be like winning the lottery or something where as killing a goblin with one hit is much easier. This is more realistic and I think it should be incorporated into the new game because that is how the Warhammer RPG works. They wouldn't even have to make up any rules they are all right there in the book.
http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html
My prediction is that there will never be a successful game made to satisify you because no one wants to play games with people like you.
Actually considering the pre existing fan base for the Warhammer genre I expect a very pvp centric game. The competitive environment of the table top warehammer games would carry over easily to an online pvp environment. Couple this with Mythic and there obvious success at at creating a game where pvp is a major focus you have all the indications for a pvp centric game. Now when you add in all the playability features they have implemented for DAoC and some of the features that are easily replicatable from other MMO's on the market and mix that in with the Warhammer genre and lore you really start to see a very conflict oriented game.
Now I do believe there will have to be some sort of "safe zone" for new players to learn the ropes in and get some basic skills, levels, or whatever this game uses for player advancement. Heck the most open handed pvp mmo on the market SB even has a safe zone (aka noob island) so low levels can level up and get the hang of things before becoming cannon fodder. All games are going to have this because of basic marketing. You want to bring in new customers and letting them get ganked by some hose monkey who is there with a toon 70 levels there senior isnt a way to endear someone as a long time customer. If you dont give people a seculded area to at least get a basic amount of skills/character power you end up with this!
I am very hopefull for this game I was very happy to hear that Mythic got the license I think they can do a great job!
P.S. My one sincere hope is that beyond some sort of lootability of characters there are battle trophies. It was an old feature in UO that one could hack up a dead body and keep body parts. I used to hunt pk's on my server and keep stacks of there toon's heads in my characters house. I think if your an orc or skaven or chaos some sort of ability to take "battle trophies" from fallen opponents would be cool.
Not getting worked up, just asking you a question.
Now, I won't start by answering on your complete post. The first few sentences you typed make it clear enough.
They all suck, according to you. So, my advice for you is, don't play MMORPGS and haul your arse of these forums (yes, some of us do like these combat systems, you know) and go play something you like.
Just for the record, you should take some time to look up the formulas for DaoCs combat system. If you really had been the great high and mighty pen-and-paper roleplayer you seem to think you are, you would have noticed DaoC's combat system is loosely based on Rolemaster, probably the best combat system in fantasy pen and paper RPG.
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Basil Fawlty: [to telephone operator] I've been trying to get through to the speaking clock... Well, it's engaged... Well, it's been engaged for ten minutes. How is this possible? My wife isn't talking to it.
Let me rephrase what I said about the combat systems of the current games out there. "They all suck for a game that will be released in 2007 and should not be implemented because they are old and served their purpose for old computers making it easier for them to render the animations of combat."
Its funny you should mention Role-Master because it worked almost exactly as I described, with hit locations and damage specific to areas that have been hit. It may be "loosly" based on it but they left out all the good parts. They did this only because computers that were around when DAoC first came out couln't handle rendering complex combat animations neither did they have enough disk space to easily hold a game that would be that large. They have to cater to the low end computer because most of their players cant afford to spend $2000 on a new computer just to play a game. In 2007 the low end computer will be able to do this easily though.
I will never leave. So stop asking.
http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html
L2 you rarely drop items as a blue player. Red players drop items frequently. Items is what makes the character not skill. THerefore as a red player if you lose your items you have to have a strong tie with ebay in order to buy your items back, thus defeating the purpose of this game. L2 is a harsh grind for people who play 24/7 non stop (aka koreans).
Losing loot is fun, because if I kill 10 players in a row I amass great wealth in the game and I make true enemies when they feel the sting of losing their items.
THe best reward is when you kill a player and take their loot. I'm not interested in killing a bunch of players for points then using those points to receieve and item that did not once belong to another player. I like taking peoples loot and jacking them, that is fun.
Weak minded players. PVE is for the stupid and weak. This game is for people who play poker without betting any money and you know how stupid and non-risky that is.
Burningpain
You didn't answer my questions.
And as far as pve=stupid people, you are very wrong. There is alot of strategy and teamwork behind PvE.
You cannot have 40 unorganized people take down a raid boss.
Now please, answer my questions.
I don't agree with you, but I won't get into that and don't get into it with me.
The thing that I find interesting, that relates to the topic of this, is that Mythic bought the rights to the "physx" engine from AGEIA. The role for a physics engine is very limited in a mmorpg -- mainly just for falling and maybe catapults and such, but those are pretty much predesigned paths. I really want to see how much of this engine Mythic actually uses, and if they do apply it to combat, then how much it will influence it.
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| www.40ksource.net - 40k MMO fansite
So I'm trying to decipher this, where in the term MMORPG do the words "Player Verses Player" exist? in case you don't know what it stands for, let me spell out the Accronym for you. Massive (meaning alot) Multiplayer (meaning mulitple players) Online (meaning you have to play it over the internet) Role-Playing (meaning you are taking on a different persona than that you are currently) Game (Usually implies having fun.)
Now I'm not against PvP, I enjoy it. But that doesn't mean I want to get on a game where people run around killing each other all the time. It's Chaos (not the race, the actual term of the word.) And unless you want to spend every minute of your free time, and some that are not free, working on your character so you can be better than everyone else at a computer game. Why would you want it that way? Most people who play games don't have 24 hours a day 7 days a week to contribute to playing a game so they can kill anyone in it. Most people would want to have a chance, which means allowing controlled PvP. It's the same concept as the United Nations, Country Governments, etc. There has to be a control factor, or there's anarchy.
please don't ever describe something as being a WoW clone, seeing how they're a clone of every other game that preceded them. kkthx.
And I highly doubt it'll be a WoW clone, considering that it's based on RvR, and I'll almost bet that the PvP penalties will be a little more than what most people are used to. At least I hope so, because PvP should be stressful and you should feel a little uneasy about dying.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
Except for the idea that the UN serves some real purpose, I agree with dark lord 13. Controlled PVP is the answer. Not just areas but classes as well in my opinion. If your an outlaw for instance PVP should be less restricted because your playing your "Role" but a Paladin for example probably calledd a Templar in Warhammer, should not be able to just kill anyone because of the type of class. he should be restricted somewhat to killing Chaos characters unless attacked first by an evil/lawless class like an outlaw.
I also believe pvp as a whole should be limited to certain non-critical optional areas like a lawless region you dont have to enter but can because there is some good loot in the area because it sucks when your going about your everyday activity and almost to complete a goal when someone much more powerful than you comes along and takes you down just because and you have to start over again.
This would also support the outlaw classes because you could have a group that lived in the lawless region and preyed on people who were curious about the area. There could be a whole bunch of these areas where anything goes no matter what your level is. If you dont like PVP then stay out of the optional lawless regions.
http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html
I dont' think I'd ever play a game that had classes devoted to pvp. I think policing is the best way to get things done. you have safe areas, where if you attack someone, guards teleport in and kill you. And you have the not-so-safe areas where guards are lower levels and can be killed by strong players or groups of strong players.
Ultimately the problem comes down to the penalty of dying. If all I get is a lousy xp penalty, or rez sickness, or item damage, then I wont mind killing people and then getting killed by the guards, but if I actually lose what's in my backpack, as well as there be a % chance of things I have equipped being damaged beyond repair, then that raises the stakes quite a bit, and cuts down on griefing.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
Ya thats a good idea to have the person who initiates the PVP have a chance of losing something important to him. They would think twice about ganking a low level if it meant that they lost something they really value. But it would be hard because if its something in the backpack they could simply take everything out and then go PVP someone with no consequences. I think it should be something they are holding or wearing and that the player surviving the attack would be able to pick it up. Having gaurds appear to help you should be regulated on how far you are from civilization or NPC's that will help. There should also be items you can carry that randomly transfer you a certain distance from where you are standing so that you can evade an attack in a remote location where chances of calling help are slim but you should be forced to use this item before you attack the attacker to prevent using it to get away only after you have found out your going to lose the fight. I dont think that the person who gets PVP'd and dies should suffer a penalty though since they didnt initiate it. But the attacker needs to get something out of it if they win, other than entertainment.
I didn't mean that the career class was totally dedicated to PVP. I just meant that they would be totally unrestricted in initiating PVP, due to their class, in the lawless areas unlike a class less inclined to attack someone for no reason. They could leave those areas and do other things just like anyone else but I think it would provide a mix up to the regular gameplay allowing those classes to really play the role of an outlaw. Outlaw classes are not just theives they are necromancers and other banned careers not accepted in towns. In the warhammer game these people, if recognized, are put to death. They have to wear disguises and such to prevent the gaurds noticing or a witch-hunter especially if you are practising dark magic. I think the outlaw areas would help people to roleplay better. I think that this game wont have this though because it gets fairly complex but i wish they would attempt something similar so that it adds something of the original games dark appeal.
http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html
I see what you're saying about the class thing. Sounds like it would be pretty sweet. I think there are bright things ahead for Warhammer Online. I just can't wait to play it.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
A game has to have some sort of controled pvp to be successfull. However if conflict is a major part of the theme of the game then it has to be incorporated into the pvp of the game. A line has to be struck somewhere to insure immersion and intensity of experience vs the ever present griefing that will always happen.
I have played, UO, EQ, Planetside, Shadowbane, and SWG. There are two sides of griefing. One is the legitimate one player killing another in some manner to be harrassing. This should be controled in some manner as it drives about 60-70% of the potential players away from a game. Low population means no fun for anyone. The second aspect of griefing is one developers have to be wary of. I have learned the hard way about this second aspect in games like EQ and SWG and to a lesser extent the early days of Shadowbane. Some players consider being pked at all being griefed and are completely incapable of dealing with having there character killed. These people can become just as much of an annoyance to the majority of the community (demanind nurfs, restrictions, segregated content, etc) as the guys who run around and gank lowbies next to the starting area (safeholds or whatever they are called).
SWG is a perfect illustration as to what happens when a conflict central to the experience of the game world is ignored by the developers and overly restricted. In two years of constantly restricting and overly segregating the Galactic Civil War the central conflict of the storyline of the game is now completely ignored by the players. Furthermore it is ignored by those that pvp and those that dont pvp! The rationale being that an individual wishting to participate in the conflict should get his opponents pre screened by the developers by segregating a rebel mob from a rebel player. This leads to Rebels/imperials attacking the Mobs of the other faction while other opponent players can only watch. Which eventually caused the withdrawl of the PvP'ers from the entire circumstance into guild wars thus dividing the community. The PvE'er GCW'ers eventually quit because there was no point or challenge to the conflict as it stood and it was dependent on players providing each other with targets yet not wanting to participate in the defense of that target. I could go on further concerning the same nurfing, controling, and segregation of the Jedi v Bounty Hunter conflict but that is also being eliminated from the game because of player complaints overy dieing. Same basic reasons as above just different specifics.
The point here is that to make a good conflict game and Warhammer is a conflict game you have to stike that all important balance! PvP has to be there with enough freedom to generate player created content. However there must be enough controls to stop rampant griefing that will drive the player population down!
A final misnomer. Is that only pvp players will spend hundreds of hours to make there characters better than somone else just to be more powerfull. I learned the falicy of this idea playing SWG where many a player who absolutely hates pvp spends the 100's of hours mind numbingly grinding the billions of xp necessary to become a Jedi. Why? Frankly so they can be more uber than all the other monster hunters. The race to be uber as I discovered is not in anyway shape or form limited to pvp as a motivation!
Yes, I think this PVP stuff is what makes or breaks a game to some degree because people are fairly split on the idea. Games lose lots of players by making PVP too uncontrolled while others lose players by not having it at all. Both make the game less interesting because less people are playing it which further thins the players who are left. My pesonal belief is that PVP is a necessity to the longevity of the game because you can only kill the same monsters over and over again until you get sick of it. I gave some examples on what I would try to do but saying is one thing, doing another. Its easy to control PVP in a paper RPG with 6 or 7 people playing but thousands at a time is another story. But I do believe that PVP should be regulated on a realm level, such as designated areas or servers which you can go to and from freely with the same character, and further on the career type level. Which is to say not eliminating it totally from the more law abiding classes, but setting rules and consequenses to govern it for those lawful types.
http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html
why cant it just be simple no uber items. Mobs drop all items on them. Players drop all items on them. Potions banages simple magery circles. You die oh my i lost a sword and armor. Have somone run out slay an orc and give you the axe and armor.
Old uo had it right. Games have become overly to complex createing the i want the leet loot so i can roxxorz more newbs. Go back to basics add lots of different looking armor weapons that all do the smae thing made by the players. Now its a matter of player skill vs items ebayed or camped.
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