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The Beginning of the End
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I haven't been able to progress since march. I stop at level 50. My progression from then on has solely been the accumulation of lvl 53 SO's. Unfortunately this terribly slow form of progression, has been dogged by repeated nerfs.
My heros has substantial regressed, not progressed. He is currently weaker than at any time since Febuary, despite thousands of hours of play time in between.
The last one, scuppering my precious SO collection that I have been using to in some way counterattck the enforced Regressions.
I'm happy to hear you are still enjoying the game, it's a shame you are so readily dismissive about the things that are ruining it for your peers.
Except for the heroes, who still die in one. (only more often now)
I realise that many AT's and lower levelled players, are not especially effected by many of the nerfs released. It is almost a pleasure to welcome them into the fold when the next one finally gets them and suddenly they recognise it.
If you have seen no significant difference, then you haven't been paying attention to all the thousands of posts in all the umpteen different COH forums. There is a significant difference.
I cringe at the attitude, "I'm alright so it doesn't matter if they ruin it for you."
Baff represent the early CoH community on this sentence, while Shayde represent what the current community is...and Sanctus is somehow in the middle but use to be like Baff, yet believing in Cryptic after all this change someone.
I still think the community is NOT a key factor for a MMO, but it is a very nice side effect to be surrounded by nice players rather than surrounded by folks who enforce the company vision. When I see casuals crying over the accolades I was personnally enjoying, I could have trash them like Shayde does for other features, like Afterlife always did about raiding. But no, I know how they feel and...they are right. So I granted them that the accolades are a mistake and need to be reworked. There are 7 casuals who are awaiting my opinion on CoV, I regret to have send 3 encourage players in the game already, might have been a bit over hyped myself...but well, they were eager and they caugh my enthusiasm during the pre-order. I doesnt have any control over what Cryptic does, but I try to help those around me...and of course I have an overgrown self ego!
I don't think this "pre-order thing" was a mistake, I think Cryptic intend it, it look to have been designed that way. So players who turn their back on CoH but buy pre-order are trapped in CoH until they call the CS (Stateman is on a Power Trip). I won't call the CS and I delete all my CoH characters, when I hate some changes, I don't need to be put those changes into my face again and again, I hate those changes. I2-I6 are flawed beyond any comon sense, I have no idea about I1 vs original game however. I pay for CoV, not for CoH. I am trapped in CoH for 5 days now, while someone who call the CS is free in 2 minutes. This is not a mistake or a trouble considering I send them 4 email, this is a design...it is working as intended. I expect far more than apologies.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I've played since the FIRST INVITE OF BETA.
And I still say I have noticed NO significant difference.
Whatever is killing you now, that you could handle before, was SUPPOSED to kill you. I wouldn't expect to herd 50 purple conned mobs and survive.. I don't care how many SO's you have.
I haven't found anything much tougher. I still stand by that. Maybe one more shot than before.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
What about taking 50% longer to kill the same mobs? What about having downtime where there was none before? What about been able to take on a huge challenge and now finding nothing challenging, it is either easy or impossible. What about waiting for powers to refreshs while they were toggle before?
You notice no difference? Than you either have a time distorsion perception or play extremely slowly. If you do 200 instead of 300, than it is 50% longer. If you have downtime, it is 50% longer. And so on. (If you have 0 downtime and now have downtime + increase downtime, this is insane).
If the pacing is nerfed by 50%, you feel it unless you are numb.
If you are in the game since the beginning, you know just as well as I do that the community is a LOT harsher than it use to be. The new players and the surviving players are not even half as nice as the early community was.
Basic Math: If I do 200 instead of 300, it will take me 50% longer to kill the mob. If my tanking powers are in the same ratio, I will take 50% extra damage for the same time, so I take 150 instead of 100 for the same duration, however, the fight is 50% longer because I kill slower, so 150 + 50% = 225% of the damage I usually take (50% of 150 is 75). Now, if it take me 50% longer to heal the same 100 damage, it would take me the same amount of time as if I would have take 337% damage of prior I6, so basically, we are talking of a downtime that is the same of 3 downtime prior the nerf on top of the fight already been longer. I don't even take into account some powers like IH who where completely screwed. You don't notice a difference? Well, I am happy for you, because me, I seriously feel the difference and I never did anything "wrong" beside soloing AVs, which was fun and challenging, a lot more challenging than anything left in the game. I use to have no downtime at all, now I have the downtime of a non-IH X 3,37...that is just insane if we consider it also took me longer to kill them.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I am amazed why they did that.It is hurting a lot.
Thanks,
John
PvP balance. Maybe they understand it was nerfing the HOs as well, maybe they didnt even realise it. I can't say. The HOs should have a primary enhancement and secondary (Like instead of been damage/Acc, it would have been Damage + Acc, which means it is damage only in 90% of the case, and in raid situation (based on zones), it give a Acc bonus). It sure means a lot of work, but it is the only way to concialiate raiding without abusing non-raiders.
There should be group and solo rewards that help you respectively in group or solo...so someone could have many goals. But again, there is no shortcut, it means a LOT of work. To design a power that give bonus on the number of folks grouped (like the PB) that is weaker than what folks can earn on their own if you are in a group of 3 or less...and been able to slot both, the solo and the group reward, so the best kick in (the solo reward in group of 3 or less, the group reward in group of 4+). LOT of work, no secrets.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Exactly how many "50 purple conned mobs" were there in beta?
It strikes me that you haven't really given anyone elses problems a second thought. If you had, you might have realised that no one has ever been able to herd 50 mobs of purples. In fact even finding 50 mobs of purples seems unlikely. I've played the game lots too, thats not a circumstance I ever got into.
I think you are exaggerating so that you can quicker dismiss the issues of others as mere bleatings. And get on with business of reinforcing your own self image by implying that you personally have no extra difficulty.
You are right, the other players deserve to get killed more now, they are "supposed" to. While you are "supposed" to be just fine.
I understand that you "don't care" how many SO's I have, or more importantly have lost. You don't care because you haven't got them. You are not losing them.
You are alright, and thats all that matters.
Am I to assume that all the community minded and team players have left?
This game is already on its last leg, they really should have let city of villians work with this so that peopel could play both, and not be forced to buy one and stick it out rather than get to try both... thats what causes me to quit... i wanted to try out CoV but i'm not about to lose my high levels characters nor do i have the money to buy another game AND pay for 2 monthly fees... so i'm outta there.
Wow... you do know that there it is still just $15 for BOTH CoH and CoV? Also, you can STILL KEEP YOUR HIGH LEVEL CHARACTERS! My god, do some research before you start your bitching!
Well I have played COH since day 1 of release. Ending my sub this month as I think they have gone too far this time. ED was an idea implemented so COH vs COV PvP would work. COH was not a PvP game to start with and this change has ruined the game for me. Heroes slaughtering heroes in one zone! What the hell!?
Many long term players I know are leaving or have left, i'm sure the creators don't mind, new faces are coming in, and they don't know how COH used to be so don't know any different. Although reading the boards complaints are coming in about COV already.
They have killed what was a great game, 'The Beginning of the End' is true.
I think you are a bit early to say CoV is a success or a failure. Tons of bugs are really not helping it case, but it is still early.
I would say that I2 was a mistake, even if I enjoy it, the accolade shaft the casuals and thereby it was badly implemented. Instead of trying to improve and get better, they take the path to hell, the right path prolly scare them.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
i agree in saying that CoV will be a failure. Will being the operative word. There are still enough people playing the CoV to sustain it for the short term but with the new mmorpgs coming out the people playing CoV will realize that the game isn't worth playing or spending $15 a month for. I believe the reason why the game is barely floating is because they implemented Enhancement Diversification (Enhancement Pussification as i like to call it) with the launch of the game. Now who in their right mind would launch a game with such a huge nerf to the loyal CoH crowd?
As for the post about game store employees directing people away from CoV...i admit i never saw it but i congratulate those that are recommending against the game. I for one spend a lot of time in game stores and have noticed people looking at CoH & CoV and i have personally recommended against the game to multiple people.
For the release date, Halloween was great for villains.
No offense, but the only MMO that CoV should be afraid of stealing a lot of it customers at release is due in February (DDO will "hurt" every MMO at it release and if the devs does the stuff right, then DDO will become the big player, but I don't know if Turbines can do it right, they do it an EQ-ways rather than a D&D ways), they still got the X-Mas sells as the "newest big MMO". DDO is both great and stressfull for every competitor, it will bring new customers to try a MMO, but it also attract a vast majority of the player pool of every existing MMO. I foresee far less lag in WoW in February! DDO is in a funny situation, I like to compare it to: If Star Trek folks would release the next Star Wars...
Despite all the flaws and the mistakes, the lousy CS, release-wise, I didn't see such a great occasion for a MMO in a long time. Of course there is like half a dozen small MMOs coming out, but even if 1 of those become a major player on the market, it take time and it won't be an instant success...and most likely will drown under DDO success/failure and goes unoticed.
CoV won't have the excuse of another release if they don't have enough sells (unlike the competitor of WoW who release at about the same date). It will be on the merits and flaws of the game itself.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You call loading up a Hero-Planner and PL'ing to build your Character based on it "Skill"?
Okay, whatever dude. Try playing your Level 30+ Hero with only TO's and DO's ... now that takes skill
...And whattya know, it's only SO's that have really been nerfed by this.
I don't like it either, but arguments like yours aren't helping a damn thing.
You call loading up a Hero-Planner and PL'ing to build your Character based on it "Skill"?
Okay, whatever dude. Try playing your Level 30+ Hero with only TO's and DO's ... now that takes skill
...And whattya know, it's only SO's that have really been nerfed by this.
I don't like it either, but arguments like yours aren't helping a damn thing.
Yeah.. what skill does it take to jam 6 So's into a skill to make you invulnerable? I bet they think Gamesharking is the most uber of the Skillzzz.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
You call loading up a Hero-Planner and PL'ing to build your Character based on it "Skill"?
Okay, whatever dude. Try playing your Level 30+ Hero with only TO's and DO's ... now that takes skill
...And whattya know, it's only SO's that have really been nerfed by this.
I don't like it either, but arguments like yours aren't helping a damn thing.
I start my PB on a new server to do just that. When I say Cryptic is punishing skill I was thinking far broader than just the 6 SOs thing...but let cut it down to the 6 SOs to please Shaydes.
Reducing customisation is reducing options. Now instead of picking which skills get the 5 extra slots, you just put 3 slots in every skill. There was CHOICE and customisation. Now there is a blind follow the mass.
And you + Shaydes enjoy to try to make me look ridiculous. This is new in the player community to enjoy denigrating others players. The skill requirement might not be HUGE, but there is some rational choice to be made before this nerf. Now they all get maxed anyway, no choice, no thinking, nothing.
You guys are really depressing. I can't believe you support something that reduce the skill requirement. Now don't read skill as action, read it as strategy thinking. It might not be a HUGE skill requirement, but there was some. You pick which skills would not have the slots before. Now there is no such thinking, they all get 3 extra slots.
It is persons like you that ruins the game experience for the majority.
When a dev is dumb, don't support him, tell him and use arguments. CoH did go down the shafts because of the persons that feedback the devs like you, they think they are doing fine rather then doing a proper introspection and analysis of the situation. I2 was the start of the downfall (if not I1). In EQ LDoN was the best expension ever, we are far from the pre-kunark EQ!
I praise and blast CoH and CoV on many aspects, I try to be as neutral as possible. You are obviously on the fanbois side as I can't remember seeing Shaydes say anything negative against CoH/CoV. A game can't be perfect. You sir are a fanbois and you are not helping, devs needs some negative feedbacks if you want to see the game evolves.
(IN EQ) And since you enjoy blasting me...did you solo a mob that can kill you in 1 thick and summon you? I did and I didnt abuse any rules, I just play fairly and I died a few times before I succeed. And the reward was a Runes spells for a 65 spell in EQ!!! I was AE hunting in Sebilis while most players where not even level 60. Go ahead, blast me. I am an irregular player I do amazingly great 1 day, and another I just go and do the dumbest stuff, especially if I am tired and work a lot in RL. But I know I did great stuff and blasting me can only results in players enjoying the games less. Soloing the BattleMaiden was requiring more skill than doing any TF, in any 10 seconds I could be dead. But it was FUN. Some TFs have artificial challenges and are boring, like having to check your pets...can't have a more artificial challenge than pet management, a pet should not be a chore to manage.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I couldn't agree more, infact that was the Basis of my main argument that I sent directectly to Cryptic(Which they read) when asked for Feedback and Testing on this "new feature" ... Which I did test extensively and proved without a doubt that even my own Anti-MinMax builds were indeed effected negatively, some very negatively. Normally I'd be up here telling minmaxxers and PL'ers to shove a sock in it, but testing results convinced me that the leveling speed for EVERY Archetype, regardless of build, has been significantly "knocked out of balance" and when Statesman claims that he "sees no difference", we all know he's lieing through his teeth and justifying it with semantic technicalities. ...Meanwhile being very quiet about the Datamining results which he usually BOASTS of when things go his way.
Unfiortunately, outside of making several entirely new Enhancement Types (Which could take forever and only complicate power-slotting worse than it already is), the Community as a whole has failed to come up with a comprehensive alternative that will restore the Customization options we once had. Everyone has already "moved on" by now, or is passively waiting for some kind of "skills" system to be introduced that nets the same result. I'm ready to just give up on it myself because it could be 5-7 months before they even address it (Current development centers exclusively around adding the last 10 level of content to CoV so new features, options, or powers may all be way way way on the back burner)
Actually I think you may be misunderstanding where they are coming from. While nobody likes being nerfed (and there has been to many for comfort) some kick up a fuss, some just "bite the bullet" and adapt. They and myself are the latter.
As for only using only 3 slots, that is inaccurate. Most people I know still use all six slots, but add in secondary enhancements, recharge or endurance reducers. While granted there are exceptions most have at least 4, as there is usually at least 1 accuracy enhancement used alongside 3 damage, heal, debuff, etc. Defence toggles are commonly 3 def buffs, 3 end reducers. To compensate for the reduced usefulness of stamina. The powers most affected are ones like stamina, health and hover, which only take one type of enhancement. There aren't a great deal of them.
Shayde,
I believe the populace loses braincells reading your posts...Quit dumbing down the argument saying stupid things like:
No, it isnt hard to physically drag 6 SO's into a power...but to spend hours on an optimal build with 16 powers that each need a different number of enhancement slots as well as different types of enhancements to pick from a pool of 20+ enhancement options to be most effective does require a lot of time and a degree of skill.
Even this pitiful 'Hero Planner' argument cannot hold merit, as all this program does is show you the raw numbers of each power, and nothing more...a player who is not skilled at the gameplay of CoH could easily pick what he/she thinks is the best combo based on the Hero Planner numbers, and more often than not, those builds are pure sh*t......
You have to know the powers, know what combinations work best, and know how to apply your powers....Sure, I'm a min/maxer, which is why I somewhat take offense at your shallow statement....I spent hours testing and trying different combinations before I 'skillfully' put together a build that could own or hold even with just about any other archetype out there....
Didnt I see you post the same thing on like page 2 of this thread? For God's sake man attack the issue from a different angle rather than the one only newbs agree with and true hardcore vets just laugh at.....
Anyways....
Add my money to the list that Cryptic ISNT going to be receiving any longer after this month....
I'm not shelling out cash to have a Respec fiesta every issue, and to be WAITING for respecs to be handed out like candy to the loyal fanboy's who rejoice like Christ himself is descending from the clouds when one is announced....Im not paying for my build to be nerfed from it's original glory to something that gets owned in PvP daily now....Im not paying for the devs to decimate my skills while other archetype skills that are overpowered are repeatedly ignored....Im not paying for a game that has ignored their hardcore audience since launch and implemented lower level zones and content for the newbs instead.....Im not going assist in paying a lead designer's salary that lies to his player base, and off handedly mocks his playerbase on the forums with meaningless and empty excuses for his actions....Not doing it, period.
Nuff said.
Oh, and Grapevine - How much money are you going to shell out to a game that makes 'Biting the bullet and adapting' a part of it's featured gameplay every month? Not trying to be an ass here, but you and the 'latter' can enjoy your sub par game after the latest nerfs....
I say screw that, we're paying Mr. Jack Emmerts and Cryptics paychecks, and THOUSANDS of players have voiced their dissapointment to deaf ears. But heck, it's a free country, so they can choose to be deaf to the issues all they want....Just don't expect my, or thousands of other players' $15 a month.
I'm suprised players like you hang in their and continue to monetarily support dev teams that do this to their loyal, hardcore fans that stayed with them for more than a year.....I personally don't see how you justify it.....
Well for one its not every month. Issues are usually once per quarter. Also I've yet to find a single mmorpg that doesn't have constant changes. You will be sadly disappointed if you are expecting otherwise. I also find the changes do not affect my game play a great deal to be honest (even ED), but then again I'm not into FotM unbalanced power combinations. It may be a surpise but I'm actually enjoing the game more after ED dispite not being very happy over it, as the forced limitation of same enhancement slotting has resulted in my characters being more fleshed out in their capabilities by freeing up slots to enhance other powers or increase secondary affects. CoH is also an action mmorpg, instead of glorfied chat room which many others turn into. Persoanlly, while the fast pace does burn one out from time to time each issue adds more into the game and rekindles enough interested to hang around. Crypic add a hell of a lot more content than most companies do.
No offence but min/maxers like yourself always have issues in every mmorpg, as they look for power, skill or spell combinations to exploit. Hence are the greatest affected and why nerfs occur in the first place. They also tend to hop from game to game, as nerfs are applied to the point that they tire of having to find the next "perfect" template. That isn't the games fault (no matter which one it is), its a playstyle one.
In the 10 or so other MMO's I recall having played, no character of mine in any other game has ever been nerfed.
In COH I have had 3.
City of Nerfs.
Yeah, right.
I know one game you do play, so I know that statement is wrong.
please explain to me which of my characters in which game has been nerfed?