Aside from the pre-order bias.. anyone else get the feeling that perma-death in a practically open-PvP MMORPG is a bit harsh? I can't imagine paying to play a game where, if I happen to lose connection once at the wrong time ,I just lost months of work.. or if a RL emergency makes me have to go AFK I invariably die and lose my character and all its equipment.. thats just not cool. Now bear in mind i'm no carebear, I used to play Ultima Online back in the 'anything goes' days, but in that game equipment was all common stuff that was easily replaced, so dying and dropping it was no big deal. And in UO you didnt lose skills/levels unless you were a murderer.. Seems like the penalties in this game are way too harsh for something that can happen at any time with no warning, with no fault of your own..
Only main's have permadeath. They are more pwoerful and can progress to a higher level of skill and gain access to special powers. You know why? Cos they have permadeath. People who take the risk of permadeath, get a more powerful character. If you don't wanna die, then make a regular char.
" But i won't be as uber!" Well, that's like saying you wanna win big at the races, but don't wanna risk losing your stake...
Originally posted by Jorev According to some, the game won't be fun for most customers unless there is an established set of players who have already excelled in their adventuring prowess, gained knowledge about the game world and game mechanics, and advanced their crafting skills in order to offer goods and services, which btw, they will profit from immensely by possessing early monopolies.
And this, my friends, is why sandbox MMOs suck. (But to each their own)
Put some effort into REAL content and this sort of thing doesn't have to happen!
EDIT: The thing that should make The Chronicle a bit different is permadeath...I'm still looking forward to seeing what TC is like. I'm keeping an open mind.
I was really looking forward to this game but the advantages are just rediculous to have in a PERMADEATH game (some earlier poster made that great argument but got ignored).
What is preventing some elite beta tester to just obliterate some n00by main character in release with his Uber Weapon of Pwnage?
On release I don't see whats wrong with everyone just standing there asking what to do in an empty world because there will be beta testers who will know and can lead on. So yes restart the server and characters on release! I sure as hell wouldn't mind being in an empty world ready to be inhabited, it would be a great change of pace from all the other cookie cutter mmos.
I was also looking forward to Roma Victor but they have some pre order advantage aswell (I think they keep the money they made or get extra at release...or both).
______________________________ "When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!" -cheer leading, flag waving American
I don't think a head starts going to be that big of a deal. If it was, they wouldn't get too many new players after the game's released. The people in beta aren't just going to run around and build empires. We won't just be lined up outside of the starting town, ready to butcher any poor noob that tries to start a character. Who knows how many times they'll have to wipe the server, and they said they were pretty sure no one would be able to make a town in the short time we get to play.
The rollover's just a reason to test. Testing's a b**ch, but I'll do it to get my name and to get a feel for the game. That's worth $20 to me. If I just killed every new player that started:
1) The NPCs would kill me 2) The other players would kill me 3) You can't tell whose new and whose not, or even whose a player and whose an NPC
We're not just going to attack anyone in a starting town, they might have been there before us. Or be a stronger NPC. And if anyone's killing players in the starting town, they're going to get a couple guilds after them.
Preorder advantages are a bad idea. It's just a slick way to get people to fork over money early and the dummies that preordered hoping to gain an advantage are now waiting for a game that looks like vaporware, Mourning II.
I feel sorry for anyone who preordered this game hoping for an advantage. Release dates are slipping and the only thing that might have saved this game is an early release. Put back to 2006/2007 and probably doubtful at that, there are a lot more polished mmorpgs in production that will beat The Chronicles release. What was all this hype about fast track games coming out of their studio? Move along folks nothing to see here.
Originally posted by CaesarsGhost I understand it might sound unfair. But hear this out:The game is completely Player Oriented. If we launched and there was no players already established in the game, there would be no player cities or shops. There would be a very dead, empty, gameworld. With very few places for people to get quests or go and buy gear and the like.But most importantly, the way the game is designed it's your personal skill that will matter. If you're that much better then that person, you'll be able to defeat them regardless of those "bonuses" given to them. That, and once they're dead they loose their advantage, due to permadeath.
Thats the biggest hunk of poopy i have ever heard. You cant be serious, that is how you explain allowing characters from beta to roll over to the actual game? PLEASE! You sound like a newbie.
EVER THINK THAT PEOPLE WILL BUY YOUR MMO TO BE THE FIRST ONES TO MAKE THAT PLAYER OWNED CITY CHAMP?! DID YA? Probally not, cause your a newbie. This is terrible, screw this game.
Originally posted by MMO_Munk Originally posted by CaesarsGhost I understand it might sound unfair. But hear this out:The game is completely Player Oriented. If we launched and there was no players already established in the game, there would be no player cities or shops. There would be a very dead, empty, gameworld. With very few places for people to get quests or go and buy gear and the like.But most importantly, the way the game is designed it's your personal skill that will matter. If you're that much better then that person, you'll be able to defeat them regardless of those "bonuses" given to them. That, and once they're dead they loose their advantage, due to permadeath.
Thats the biggest hunk of poopy i have ever heard. You cant be serious, that is how you explain allowing characters from beta to roll over to the actual game? PLEASE! You sound like a newbie.
EVER THINK THAT PEOPLE WILL BUY YOUR MMO TO BE THE FIRST ONES TO MAKE THAT PLAYER OWNED CITY CHAMP?! DID YA? Probally not, cause your a newbie. This is terrible, screw this game.
Of course people are going to buy the game to be the first one to make a player owned city! But whats wrong with that? This game is going to be different then any ther game out there right now, and If different is scary for you then DONT PLAY IT. Go back and play some more WOW where im sure you'll feel much more comfortable.
Originally posted by MMO_Munk Thats the biggest hunk of poopy i have ever heard. You cant be serious, that is how you explain allowing characters from beta to roll over to the actual game? PLEASE! You sound like a newbie.EVER THINK THAT PEOPLE WILL BUY YOUR MMO TO BE THE FIRST ONES TO MAKE THAT PLAYER OWNED CITY CHAMP?! DID YA? Probally not, cause your a newbie. This is terrible, screw this game.
man he works for the company.
he can't exactly come out and say the truth:
'it was a good way of tricking more people into sending us money for nothing'
i only read the first 3 pages, but one line i saw was "readiness to pay", and i wanted to put in one of my first initial reasons for pre-ordering: saving money.
as the situation is right now, i'm short on cash, and the situation is going to be like that through all of the next year, and who knows what then. so i figured that 20% off per month off would be helpful later on, and if i won't want to play any of their games when they are out, i will probebly decide that after at list one month of testing the full release version, which now i already paid for. no real losses in that deal once you decided any of their games interest you and you are ready to give it a try.
as for starting all equal: this is a skill based game, and skills degrade. it won't take you that long to catch up with any preorderer. how ever, if as an achiver improving your skills is all you want to do, then...well, broaden your terms of achievement: in a game without levels, the number of people that support you in the fight, their stratagy and their playing skills are what will make you stronger. achieving in terms of "becoming more powerful" is really a lot more of a social game (unless they screw this and make the trademill to long).
th
now without astablished player factions, their will be little to achieve. why?
this is what player driven game means for the goals you usually have to achieve:
a usual "quest" might be to kill 1000 giant chickens in most MMO's... now in a player driven mmo, you have a higher chance of recieving that goal in order for your factions master cook to create a dinner that will give a slight imporvement to your people before that nights raid, which might completely changed the lanscape of the ecology, an NPC faction or the political arena of another player faction, therby: you did the same thing, but this time, you changed the world.
p.s.
i appose the sloughter of giant chickens everywhere, and in no way did i try to encourge giant chicken killing within this post. no giant chickens where harmed in any way during the writing of this post. please lets all live in peace and let the giant chickens live.
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title. "When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Originally posted by Rrramiriarn i only read the first 3 pages, but one line i saw was "readiness to pay", and i wanted to put in one of my first initial reasons for pre-ordering: saving money.
as the situation is right now, i'm short on cash, and the situation is going to be like that through all of the next year, and who knows what then. so i figured that 20% off per month off would be helpful later on, and if i won't want to play any of their games when they are out, i will probebly decide that after at list one month of testing the full release version, which now i already paid for. no real losses in that deal once you decided any of their games interest you and you are ready to give it a try.
as for starting all equal: this is a skill based game, and skills degrade. it won't take you that long to catch up with any preorderer. how ever, if as an achiver improving your skills is all you want to do, then...well, broaden your terms of achievement: in a game without levels, the number of people that support you in the fight, their stratagy and their playing skills are what will make you stronger. achieving in terms of "becoming more powerful" is really a lot more of a social game (unless they screw this and make the trademill to long). th now without astablished player factions, their will be little to achieve. why?
this is what player driven game means for the goals you usually have to achieve: a usual "quest" might be to kill 1000 giant chickens in most MMO's... now in a player driven mmo, you have a higher chance of recieving that goal in order for your factions master cook to create a dinner that will give a slight imporvement to your people before that nights raid, which might completely changed the lanscape of the ecology, an NPC faction or the political arena of another player faction, therby: you did the same thing, but this time, you changed the world.
p.s. i appose the sloughter of giant chickens everywhere, and in no way did i try to encourge giant chicken killing within this post. no giant chickens where harmed in any way during the writing of this post. please lets all live in peace and let the giant chickens live.
Just Bravo. Means excellent explanation.
I dont think preoreder actually make players godly or invencible. As stated above, the game system that TC could provide should avoid godlike player who are invencible just because they found a super ultra item. TC features a player orientated MMORPG, in which nothing its like calculators anymore.. just because you are level 99 you are the king, you can die from falling a cliff if you get drunked by your levels, and die.
Originally posted by FergRedbeard Can you even still pre-order anymore? I've heard conflicting reports about it even still be a possibility... or maybe I'm just insane...
you can't pro-order right now, but they are planning to open up the pre-orders again later.
Comments
Only main's have permadeath. They are more pwoerful and can progress to a higher level of skill and gain access to special powers. You know why? Cos they have permadeath. People who take the risk of permadeath, get a more powerful character. If you don't wanna die, then make a regular char.
" But i won't be as uber!" Well, that's like saying you wanna win big at the races, but don't wanna risk losing your stake...
And this, my friends, is why sandbox MMOs suck. (But to each their own)
Put some effort into REAL content and this sort of thing doesn't have to happen!
EDIT: The thing that should make The Chronicle a bit different is permadeath...I'm still looking forward to seeing what TC is like. I'm keeping an open mind.
I like how Jorev never replied to CG, nothing but a troll who realizes he was beat.
I was really looking forward to this game but the advantages are just rediculous to have in a PERMADEATH game (some earlier poster made that great argument but got ignored).
What is preventing some elite beta tester to just obliterate some n00by main character in release with his Uber Weapon of Pwnage?
On release I don't see whats wrong with everyone just standing there asking what to do in an empty world because there will be beta testers who will know and can lead on. So yes restart the server and characters on release! I sure as hell wouldn't mind being in an empty world ready to be inhabited, it would be a great change of pace from all the other cookie cutter mmos.
I was also looking forward to Roma Victor but they have some pre order advantage aswell (I think they keep the money they made or get extra at release...or both).
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
I don't think a head starts going to be that big of a deal. If it was, they wouldn't get too many new players after the game's released. The people in beta aren't just going to run around and build empires. We won't just be lined up outside of the starting town, ready to butcher any poor noob that tries to start a character. Who knows how many times they'll have to wipe the server, and they said they were pretty sure no one would be able to make a town in the short time we get to play.
The rollover's just a reason to test. Testing's a b**ch, but I'll do it to get my name and to get a feel for the game. That's worth $20 to me. If I just killed every new player that started:
1) The NPCs would kill me
2) The other players would kill me
3) You can't tell whose new and whose not, or even whose a player and whose an NPC
We're not just going to attack anyone in a starting town, they might have been there before us. Or be a stronger NPC. And if anyone's killing players in the starting town, they're going to get a couple guilds after them.
A** Still Raw From Your Last SWG Subscription? Come join us at RLMMO.com
Thats the biggest hunk of poopy i have ever heard. You cant be serious, that is how you explain allowing characters from beta to roll over to the actual game? PLEASE! You sound like a newbie.
EVER THINK THAT PEOPLE WILL BUY YOUR MMO TO BE THE FIRST ONES TO MAKE THAT PLAYER OWNED CITY CHAMP?! DID YA? Probally not, cause your a newbie. This is terrible, screw this game.
Thats the biggest hunk of poopy i have ever heard. You cant be serious, that is how you explain allowing characters from beta to roll over to the actual game? PLEASE! You sound like a newbie.
EVER THINK THAT PEOPLE WILL BUY YOUR MMO TO BE THE FIRST ONES TO MAKE THAT PLAYER OWNED CITY CHAMP?! DID YA? Probally not, cause your a newbie. This is terrible, screw this game.
Of course people are going to buy the game to be the first one to make a player owned city! But whats wrong with that? This game is going to be different then any ther game out there right now, and If different is scary for you then DONT PLAY IT. Go back and play some more WOW where im sure you'll feel much more comfortable.
man he works for the company.
he can't exactly come out and say the truth:
'it was a good way of tricking more people into sending us money for nothing'
i only read the first 3 pages, but one line i saw was "readiness to pay", and i wanted to put in one of my first initial reasons for pre-ordering: saving money.
as the situation is right now, i'm short on cash, and the situation is going to be like that through all of the next year, and who knows what then. so i figured that 20% off per month off would be helpful later on, and if i won't want to play any of their games when they are out, i will probebly decide that after at list one month of testing the full release version, which now i already paid for. no real losses in that deal once you decided any of their games interest you and you are ready to give it a try.
as for starting all equal: this is a skill based game, and skills degrade. it won't take you that long to catch up with any preorderer. how ever, if as an achiver improving your skills is all you want to do, then...well, broaden your terms of achievement: in a game without levels, the number of people that support you in the fight, their stratagy and their playing skills are what will make you stronger. achieving in terms of "becoming more powerful" is really a lot more of a social game (unless they screw this and make the trademill to long).
th
now without astablished player factions, their will be little to achieve. why?
this is what player driven game means for the goals you usually have to achieve:
a usual "quest" might be to kill 1000 giant chickens in most MMO's... now in a player driven mmo, you have a higher chance of recieving that goal in order for your factions master cook to create a dinner that will give a slight imporvement to your people before that nights raid, which might completely changed the lanscape of the ecology, an NPC faction or the political arena of another player faction, therby: you did the same thing, but this time, you changed the world.
p.s.
i appose the sloughter of giant chickens everywhere, and in no way did i try to encourge giant chicken killing within this post. no giant chickens where harmed in any way during the writing of this post. please lets all live in peace and let the giant chickens live.
Kinda funny, I enjoyed this last post.
Especially since we have a landmark near the studio called "The Giant Chicken"
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Chicken
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Can you even still pre-order anymore? I've heard conflicting reports about it even still be a possibility...
or maybe I'm just insane...
Just Bravo. Means excellent explanation.
I dont think preoreder actually make players godly or invencible. As stated above, the game system that TC could provide should avoid godlike player who are invencible just because they found a super ultra item. TC features a player orientated MMORPG, in which nothing its like calculators anymore.. just because you are level 99 you are the king, you can die from falling a cliff if you get drunked by your levels, and die.