Alright I did some homework and here is what I found.
LucasArts Entertainment Company (LEC) is a subsidiary of LucasFilm. They are private corporations, George W. Lucas, Jr. is the chairman of the board.
The president of the Company is Jim Ward and the VP of Finance is Kevin Weston.
As chairman of the board I am sure his voice carrys plenty of weight. I still highly doubt he is making the final answers on anything or that he is personally doing meetings over SWG. I would venture to say that any final decisions on anything large are up to Mr. Ward.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
That's be great IF that was the way it worked, but it isn't:
Originally posted by Wepps
Jodo, I think we all accept this now. But you have to understand how it actually works. A - LA representative shows up, people don serious masks and enter the war room. LA representitive doesn't have to "show up", he's already there. Not only is he already there, as a matter of fact, he's the producer of the friggin game (I think I've said that before) B - LA representative does a lot of finger waggling, and spouting off about 'Game needs Jedi.' This is correct, as the producer he pretty much says what goes on. C - SOE protests, but must comply. Yep, LA being the BOSS and all. D - SWG team incapable of providing it in a working format, and ALL game fixes and professional reworks come to a halt for over a year while they screw with it. All under the watchful direction of the producer, Julio Tores, who works for LucasArts.
The SWG development team has proven themselves incompetent. They never seem to be able to finish what they start, provide working code, test properly, or even add the right dimensions to the game that are required. So what if LA says "Jedi"? It's SOE that's screwing it up hard. Again when you say "Dev team" there are members of LucasArts in that team. That means SOE isn't screwing it up hard, SOE and LucasArts are screwing it up hard together
For those of you that missed it Julio Tores states in his letter to the community that he is SWG's producer. I don't think anyone can argue that fact. Now I'd like you to read this, which explains EXACTLY what a producer's job is:
For those worried about following unkown links, I'll post some of the bigger, more important parts of the producer's job
Develop a Production Plan Just as the producer must develop a pre-production plan, he or she must also develop a production plan, which is the actual documents or set of documents that comprise the plan for the games development. Although a plan is often believed to remove uncertainty, in reality, the production plan is simply the best estimate of how the game is to be completed. The production plan consists of several smaller plans describing all the elements of the game and how they are going to be completed. This includes plans from each team involved in game creation, including designers, artists, and programmers. The production plan brings these different documents together, enabling interested parties to review the project as a whole, with an understanding of risks, the required budget, a feature list, the schedule, and art assets. Generate Game-Design Documentation The producer must work with the Design team to clarify the game-design documentation and ensure that it is easily producible and cohesive. Game designers have an inherent predisposition to create overly complicated, complex, and disjointed designs, that may require a lot of development time to fix. Game designers are supposed to do this, but the producers role is to help guide them back to the course of what is producible, possible, and still fun. Handle Legal/Contractual Issues Handle Licensing and Branding Handle Platform Transition Handle Quality Assurance Manage Assets ect, ect. After reading that document about what a producer is supposed to do, I know exactly where to lay the blame. Now you can see it one of 3 ways: 1. Torres isn't really the producer, they just gave him the title. So essentially what's you're saying is that LucasArts is paying someone (probably) a lot of money to do nothing. So you're saying LucasArts isn't incompetent, they're just stupid, and somehow LA being stupid is SOE's fault. 2. Torres really is the producer, but he doesn't do everything that document says a producer should. So somehow a LucasArts employee not doing his job is SOE's fault. 3. Torres is the producer, and is involved with production (along with the rest of the LucasArts staff) and takes an equal share in the responsibility. So which is it guys? LucasArts is stupid, don't do their jobs, or equally at fault?
Public perception is everything, and SOE is going to get the blame which will translate into lower sales of all SOE products.
Suck on that.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Does the fact that John Smedley.. who was SUPPOSED to be on the G4 show today.. is now replaced by Julo Torrez tellng in any way?
And just because Torrez has the "Producer" title, doesn't mean he had the power you described. Especially in that bastard relationship between LA and $OE.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Shayde Does the fact that John Smedley.. who was SUPPOSED to be on the G4 show today.. is now replaced by Julo Torrez tellng in any way?And just because Torrez has the "Producer" title, doesn't mean he had the power you described. Especially in that bastard relationship between LA and $OE.
Let me know how that goes today Shayde, we want a play by play!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by Shayde Does the fact that John Smedley.. who was SUPPOSED to be on the G4 show today.. is now replaced by Julo Torrez tellng in any way?And just because Torrez has the "Producer" title, doesn't mean he had the power you described. Especially in that bastard relationship between LA and $OE.
Let me know how that goes today Shayde, we want a play by play!
The TIVO is locked and loaded.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Shayde Does the fact that John Smedley.. who was SUPPOSED to be on the G4 show today.. is now replaced by Julo Torrez tellng in any way? Yes it tells me A LOT. It tells me SOE is sick of taking all the blame while people think LA can do no wrong. It tells me SOE wants people to know LA is just as involved as they (SOE) are. And just because Torrez has the "Producer" title, doesn't mean he had the power you described. Especially in that bastard relationship between LA and $OE. Oh so you think it's number 2 then, LucasArts just isn't doing thier job, and that's SOE's fault.
Originally posted by Jodokai Oh so you think it's number 2 then, LucasArts just isn't doing thier job, and that's SOE's fault.
That's why I said regardless of what is the reality, as far as I am concerned LEC is failing party here.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
All this back and forth over who is to blame, SOE or LucasArts, is comical. Who cares which one is more responsible for its downfall? There is more than enough blame to go around. Between the two of them, they ruined an incredible community, and personally I will never play a game made by either one of them again. Anyway, thats my two bits. /shrug
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Interesting rumour, I highly doubt Georgie boy would ever walk out on a meeting though. Star Wars his progeny, his baby, he would fight to the death over it.
Originally posted by chlaos All this back and forth over who is to blame, SOE or LucasArts, is comical. Who cares which one is more responsible for its downfall? There is more than enough blame to go around. Between the two of them, they ruined an incredible community, and personally I will never play a game made by either one of them again. Anyway, thats my two bits. /shrug
And a good take on it for two bits.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by anarchyart Interesting rumour, I highly doubt Georgie boy would ever walk out on a meeting though. Star Wars his progeny, his baby, he would fight to the death over it.
Or til the dollar amount was high enough.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by chlaos All this back and forth over who is to blame, SOE or LucasArts, is comical. Who cares which one is more responsible for its downfall? There is more than enough blame to go around. Between the two of them, they ruined an incredible community, and personally I will never play a game made by either one of them again. Anyway, thats my two bits. /shrug
This is EXACTLY my point. You seem to get it others don't. Others believe it's 99% SOE's fault. I'm just trying to open eyes that don't want to see.
Originally posted by Jorev It doesn't matter. SWG is failing. Public perception is everything, and SOE is going to get the blame which will translate into lower sales of all SOE products. Suck on that.
Nobody is denying it, and if I gave a crap what happens to SOE, this still wouldn't bother me considering you're the source.
Originally posted by Hifructose Can someone please remind me what FRS is? commence the noob dubbing
Force Ranking System
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by chlaos All this back and forth over who is to blame, SOE or LucasArts, is comical. Who cares which one is more responsible for its downfall? There is more than enough blame to go around. Between the two of them, they ruined an incredible community, and personally I will never play a game made by either one of them again. Anyway, thats my two bits. /shrug
Because when Blizzard develops SWG2 we're hoping LA is less at fault than $OE so we can actually get a better game.
I'm still believing 99% of the fault lies with $OE from what I've seen in the last 2 years. Nobody even KNEW there was any LA employees involved until 2005.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by chlaos All this back and forth over who is to blame, SOE or LucasArts, is comical. Who cares which one is more responsible for its downfall? There is more than enough blame to go around. Between the two of them, they ruined an incredible community, and personally I will never play a game made by either one of them again. Anyway, thats my two bits. /shrug
Because when Blizzard develops SWG2 we're hoping LA is less at fault than $OE so we can actually get a better game.
I'm still believing 99% of the fault lies with $OE from what I've seen in the last 2 years. Nobody even KNEW there was any LA employees involved until 2005.
If Blizzard does it we are right back to square 1. They may be proving to put out a quality product at current, however it's obvious from their current trackrecord community will get zero say in how it should be. So if you don't like their envisionment of how it should be its the highway for you. And that has proven to not work with a Star Wars MMO, too many people are huge fan's to handle it that way.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Because when Blizzard develops SWG2 we're hoping LA is less at fault than $OE so we can actually get a better game. I'm still believing 99% of the fault lies with $OE from what I've seen in the last 2 years. Nobody even KNEW there was any LA employees involved until 2005.
No YOU didn't know. Those of us that have been around and bothered to look into things knew all along. Especially if you were here pre-release were the devs said (and I'm quoting here) "Everything we do is run by LucasArts first, they have to approve everything we do."
Or those of us that bothered to read the credits in the back of the manual had a pretty good idea too.
Originally posted by Jodokai Originally posted by Shayde Because when Blizzard develops SWG2 we're hoping LA is less at fault than $OE so we can actually get a better game. I'm still believing 99% of the fault lies with $OE from what I've seen in the last 2 years. Nobody even KNEW there was any LA employees involved until 2005. No YOU didn't know. Those of us that have been around and bothered to look into things knew all along. Especially if you were here pre-release were the devs said (and I'm quoting here) "Everything we do is run by LucasArts first, they have to approve everything we do." Or those of us that bothered to read the credits in the back of the manual had a pretty good idea too.
So just you.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
That's be great IF that was the way it worked, but it isn't:
Originally posted by Wepps
Jodo, I think we all accept this now. But you have to understand how it actually works. A - LA representative shows up, people don serious masks and enter the war room. LA representitive doesn't have to "show up", he's already there. Not only is he already there, as a matter of fact, he's the producer of the friggin game (I think I've said that before)' Then answer why the community relations manager has stated he has met the producer all of 2 times in a recent post (today) Not only does that mean he isn't in the same building but that his contact with soe staff is limited. Of course Brenlo could be lying. B - LA representative does a lot of finger waggling, and spouting off about 'Game needs Jedi.' This is correct, as the producer he pretty much says what goes on. This contridicts my view that LA only approves core star wars lore issues with the game and does not interfer with day to day operations. I believe LA only acts as an approval stamp on ideas. C - SOE protests, but must comply. Yep, LA being the BOSS and all. Why would SOE have a contract where they could have everything dictated to them and pay for that right? You need a lesson in business. LA choose SOE to code and manage its game. LA probably cannot do anything to SOE. I believe the contract has a built in automatic renewal clause. Why would soe risk a potentially windfall mmo? D - SWG team incapable of providing it in a working format, and ALL game fixes and professional reworks come to a halt for over a year while they screw with it. All under the watchful direction of the producer, Julio Tores, who works for LucasArts. You mean the guy the community relations rep meet 2 times in all his time at SOE? They guy who says they work for seperate companies and he has no idea why he cancelled an interview? That producer who is so watchful?
The SWG development team has proven themselves incompetent. They never seem to be able to finish what they start, provide working code, test properly, or even add the right dimensions to the game that are required. So what if LA says "Jedi"? It's SOE that's screwing it up hard. Again when you say "Dev team" there are members of LucasArts in that team. That means SOE isn't screwing it up hard, SOE and LucasArts are screwing it up hard together I am 100% positive every developer is an SOE employee. Meaning the actual writers of the source code. It would be impossibly stupid to let LA employees have access to your source code and would probably be the most absurd thing I have read. Oh sure steal how we could that and put it in any title you like... Are you totally insane? People protect source code better then they guard priceless art.
For those of you that missed it Julio Tores states in his letter to the community that he is SWG's producer. I don't think anyone can argue that fact. Now I'd like you to read this, which explains EXACTLY what a producer's job is:
For those worried about following unkown links, I'll post some of the bigger, more important parts of the producer's job
Develop a Production Plan Just as the producer must develop a pre-production plan, he or she must also develop a production plan, which is the actual documents or set of documents that comprise the plan for the games development. Although a plan is often believed to remove uncertainty, in reality, the production plan is simply the best estimate of how the game is to be completed. The production plan consists of several smaller plans describing all the elements of the game and how they are going to be completed. This includes plans from each team involved in game creation, including designers, artists, and programmers. The production plan brings these different documents together, enabling interested parties to review the project as a whole, with an understanding of risks, the required budget, a feature list, the schedule, and art assets. Generate Game-Design Documentation The producer must work with the Design team to clarify the game-design documentation and ensure that it is easily producible and cohesive. Game designers have an inherent predisposition to create overly complicated, complex, and disjointed designs, that may require a lot of development time to fix. Game designers are supposed to do this, but the producers role is to help guide them back to the course of what is producible, possible, and still fun. Handle Legal/Contractual Issues Handle Licensing and Branding Handle Platform Transition Handle Quality Assurance Manage Assets ect, ect. After reading that document about what a producer is supposed to do, I know exactly where to lay the blame. Now you can see it one of 3 ways: 1. Torres isn't really the producer, they just gave him the title. So essentially what's you're saying is that LucasArts is paying someone (probably) a lot of money to do nothing. So you're saying LucasArts isn't incompetent, they're just stupid, and somehow LA being stupid is SOE's fault. 2. Torres really is the producer, but he doesn't do everything that document says a producer should. So somehow a LucasArts employee not doing his job is SOE's fault. 3. Torres is the producer, and is involved with production (along with the rest of the LucasArts staff) and takes an equal share in the responsibility. So which is it guys? LucasArts is stupid, don't do their jobs, or equally at fault?
Because you read some college prep courses career counselors guide on potential jobs when you grow up doesn't mean you at all understand a business relationship. I find Julio Torres to be nothing more then rubberstamp for SOE to do whatever it likes so long as it pays its licensing fees on time. They dont care about cannon (Blacksun, Mandalorian remanents, jedi, Han, Chewie, Luke, Obi-wan, Wookies, Trans). Most of the game fundamentally violates a lot of cannon. Some explain how LA heavy input who in the past so carefully put cannon above story would suddenly do a 360 if they had this total overwhelming control you state they have?
Here is my thoughts on the Lucas piece. When jedi where put into the game and the code allowed to be placed in it was rumored George himself allowed it. When holocrons where put in it was rumored high level la executives had to clear it (I think George). When jedi became a problem SOE developed the FRS as a way to satisfy Lucas who was rumored at the time to be quiet upset about the numeric amount of jedi in the timeline. Lucas then approved a FRS as a sort of control.
What I think happened is someone close to Lucas said there is a lot of chatter on swg right now. One of our folks at the ranch checked it out and thought you needed to see this version. I dont doubt Lucas saw the profession starting classes with horrid artwork, the lame special effects and the jedi starter class perversion of his vision and fired up the jet to the SOE camp. Lucas is known for griping special effects, sound and visuals. Have you seen the character creation screen?
If you dont think Lucas would puke over that I dont know what you think might envoke his anger. I remember specifically being told that the live event staff couldn't use core npc's in combat because of lucas and LA. Suddenly they can do the NGE?
Julio Torres is probably being summarily canned. I have absolute faith of it. I also believe soe wants tons of jedi and pulled a fast one on LA. That they know it sells copies but LA didn't want this game to be all about jedi because frankly the star wars world is supposedly about so much more then jedi. I dont think for 1 second Lucas is making a big change once he can get ahold of the situation and find a replacement for Torres.
It also fits with the theory of FRS removal supposedly for exploiting the system. SOE never wanted to limit jedi so they removed it as soon as possible.
Originally posted by anarchyart Interesting rumour, I highly doubt Georgie boy would ever walk out on a meeting though. Star Wars his progeny, his baby, he would fight to the death over it.
Haha. Your funny.
Mark my words. George Lucas has a. had nothing to do with SWG, b. will never have anything to do with SWG, and c. has proved to the world through his patheticly comical prequels, and proposed TV spinoffs, that he no longer has any interest in the purity of his work, and instead worships at the temple of the almighty $.
Originally posted by Shayde Because when Blizzard develops SWG2 we're hoping LA is less at fault than $OE so we can actually get a better game. I'm still believing 99% of the fault lies with $OE from what I've seen in the last 2 years. Nobody even KNEW there was any LA employees involved until 2005.
No YOU didn't know. Those of us that have been around and bothered to look into things knew all along. Especially if you were here pre-release were the devs said (and I'm quoting here) "Everything we do is run by LucasArts first, they have to approve everything we do." Or those of us that bothered to read the credits in the back of the manual had a pretty good idea too.
Oh hell PFFF haha I had no idea George Lucas even gave a damn about SWG or even contributed to development. If he was a part of any of this he's just as bad as the devs LOL man I thought George was one of those perfectionists types when it came to his creations and projects. WHO WEARS THE PANTS AT LA ANYHOW! rofl
That's be great IF that was the way it worked, but it isn't:
Originally posted by Wepps
Jodo, I think we all accept this now. But you have to understand how it actually works. A - LA representative shows up, people don serious masks and enter the war room. LA representitive doesn't have to "show up", he's already there. Not only is he already there, as a matter of fact, he's the producer of the friggin game (I think I've said that before)' Then answer why the community relations manager has stated he has met the producer all of 2 times in a recent post (today) Not only does that mean he isn't in the same building but that his contact with soe staff is limited. Of course Brenlo could be lying. Maybe it has something to do withthe fact that he just started having anything to really do with SWG? He is fillin gin for Tiggs and knows verfy little about what is really going on as he has openly admitted just today. B - LA representative does a lot of finger waggling, and spouting off about 'Game needs Jedi.' This is correct, as the producer he pretty much says what goes on. This contridicts my view that LA only approves core star wars lore issues with the game and does not interfer with day to day operations. I believe LA only acts as an approval stamp on ideas. Guildie of mine was an intern at LA specifically for SWG and LA's interest in it. I think you would be surprised just how much LA has a say so on many matters in this game. He never broke NDA, but we all get a feel for just how much LA has their hands in the day to day operations of this game. C - SOE protests, but must comply. Yep, LA being the BOSS and all. Why would SOE have a contract where they could have everything dictated to them and pay for that right? You need a lesson in business. LA choose SOE to code and manage its game. LA probably cannot do anything to SOE. I believe the contract has a built in automatic renewal clause. Why would soe risk a potentially windfall mmo? You seem to be under the impression that SOE is bigger than Star Wars. Star Wars, LA and Lucas hold the basket full of eggs. SOE runs the game..think of them as the contractor in the construction of an office building. LA is the developement firm. Ultimatly, they have the say so..and they can step inthe building and decide they don't like the door handles and demand they be changed as well. D - SWG team incapable of providing it in a working format, and ALL game fixes and professional reworks come to a halt for over a year while they screw with it. All under the watchful direction of the producer, Julio Tores, who works for LucasArts. You mean the guy the community relations rep meet 2 times in all his time at SOE? They guy who says they work for seperate companies and he has no idea why he cancelled an interview? That producer who is so watchful? Already addressed. Brenlo is not envolved with day to day operations with SWg nor is he a developer. He is filling in for Tiggs...who we all know was not envolved in making things happen, only gathering info and passing it along.
The SWG development team has proven themselves incompetent. They never seem to be able to finish what they start, provide working code, test properly, or even add the right dimensions to the game that are required. So what if LA says "Jedi"? It's SOE that's screwing it up hard. Again when you say "Dev team" there are members of LucasArts in that team. That means SOE isn't screwing it up hard, SOE and LucasArts are screwing it up hard together I am 100% positive every developer is an SOE employee. Meaning the actual writers of the source code. It would be impossibly stupid to let LA employees have access to your source code and would probably be the most absurd thing I have read. Oh sure steal how we could that and put it in any title you like... Are you totally insane? People protect source code better then they guard priceless art. Then you would be 100% wrong in your assumption. LA has a very big role in developement and it is known that they do have devlopers involved. I don't know that they are buddies in the next cube, but I do they they are involved and have been as early as JTL. Access the source code? Its Star Wars. Lucas has every right to the source code. You would have to be insane to think that Lucas didn't do everything he could to insure he had his fingers on every part of this to protect his investments in Star Wars.
LA and SOE are both responsible for what has happened.
Comments
Alright I did some homework and here is what I found.
LucasArts Entertainment Company (LEC) is a subsidiary of LucasFilm. They are private corporations, George W. Lucas, Jr. is the chairman of the board.
The president of the Company is Jim Ward and the VP of Finance is Kevin Weston.
As chairman of the board I am sure his voice carrys plenty of weight. I still highly doubt he is making the final answers on anything or that he is personally doing meetings over SWG. I would venture to say that any final decisions on anything large are up to Mr. Ward.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
For those of you that missed it Julio Tores states in his letter to the community that he is SWG's producer. I don't think anyone can argue that fact. Now I'd like you to read this, which explains EXACTLY what a producer's job is:
http://www.courseptr.com/downloads/chapterpreview/06175_GPHChapter1.pdf
For those worried about following unkown links, I'll post some of the bigger, more important parts of the producer's job
Develop a Production Plan
Just as the producer must develop a pre-production plan, he or she must also develop a production plan, which is the actual documents or set of documents that comprise the plan for the games development. Although a plan is often believed to remove uncertainty, in reality, the production plan is simply the best estimate of how the game is to be completed.
The production plan consists of several smaller plans describing all the elements of the game and how they are going to be completed. This includes plans from each team involved in game creation, including designers, artists, and programmers. The production plan brings these different documents together, enabling interested parties to review the project as a whole, with an understanding of risks, the required budget, a feature list, the schedule, and art assets.
Generate Game-Design Documentation
The producer must work with the Design team to clarify the game-design documentation and ensure that it is easily producible and cohesive. Game designers have an inherent predisposition to create overly complicated, complex, and disjointed designs, that may require a lot of development time to fix. Game designers are supposed to do this, but the producers role is to help guide them back to the course of what is producible, possible, and still fun.
Handle Legal/Contractual Issues
Handle Licensing and Branding
Handle Platform Transition
Handle Quality Assurance
Manage Assets
ect, ect.
After reading that document about what a producer is supposed to do, I know exactly where to lay the blame. Now you can see it one of 3 ways:
1. Torres isn't really the producer, they just gave him the title. So essentially what's you're saying is that LucasArts is paying someone (probably) a lot of money to do nothing. So you're saying LucasArts isn't incompetent, they're just stupid, and somehow LA being stupid is SOE's fault.
2. Torres really is the producer, but he doesn't do everything that document says a producer should. So somehow a LucasArts employee not doing his job is SOE's fault.
3. Torres is the producer, and is involved with production (along with the rest of the LucasArts staff) and takes an equal share in the responsibility.
So which is it guys? LucasArts is stupid, don't do their jobs, or equally at fault?
It doesn't matter. SWG is failing.
Public perception is everything, and SOE is going to get the blame which will translate into lower sales of all SOE products.
Suck on that.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Does the fact that John Smedley.. who was SUPPOSED to be on the G4 show today.. is now replaced by Julo Torrez tellng in any way?
And just because Torrez has the "Producer" title, doesn't mean he had the power you described. Especially in that bastard relationship between LA and $OE.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Let me know how that goes today Shayde, we want a play by play!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Let me know how that goes today Shayde, we want a play by play!
The TIVO is locked and loaded.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
That's why I said regardless of what is the reality, as far as I am concerned LEC is failing party here.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
And a good take on it for two bits.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Or til the dollar amount was high enough.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Can someone please remind me what FRS is?
commence the noob dubbing
Force Ranking System
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Because when Blizzard develops SWG2 we're hoping LA is less at fault than $OE so we can actually get a better game.
I'm still believing 99% of the fault lies with $OE from what I've seen in the last 2 years. Nobody even KNEW there was any LA employees involved until 2005.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Because when Blizzard develops SWG2 we're hoping LA is less at fault than $OE so we can actually get a better game.
I'm still believing 99% of the fault lies with $OE from what I've seen in the last 2 years. Nobody even KNEW there was any LA employees involved until 2005.
If Blizzard does it we are right back to square 1. They may be proving to put out a quality product at current, however it's obvious from their current trackrecord community will get zero say in how it should be. So if you don't like their envisionment of how it should be its the highway for you. And that has proven to not work with a Star Wars MMO, too many people are huge fan's to handle it that way.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
No YOU didn't know. Those of us that have been around and bothered to look into things knew all along. Especially if you were here pre-release were the devs said (and I'm quoting here) "Everything we do is run by LucasArts first, they have to approve everything we do."
Or those of us that bothered to read the credits in the back of the manual had a pretty good idea too.
So just you.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
For those of you that missed it Julio Tores states in his letter to the community that he is SWG's producer. I don't think anyone can argue that fact. Now I'd like you to read this, which explains EXACTLY what a producer's job is:
http://www.courseptr.com/downloads/chapterpreview/06175_GPHChapter1.pdf
For those worried about following unkown links, I'll post some of the bigger, more important parts of the producer's job
Develop a Production Plan
Just as the producer must develop a pre-production plan, he or she must also develop a production plan, which is the actual documents or set of documents that comprise the plan for the games development. Although a plan is often believed to remove uncertainty, in reality, the production plan is simply the best estimate of how the game is to be completed.
The production plan consists of several smaller plans describing all the elements of the game and how they are going to be completed. This includes plans from each team involved in game creation, including designers, artists, and programmers. The production plan brings these different documents together, enabling interested parties to review the project as a whole, with an understanding of risks, the required budget, a feature list, the schedule, and art assets.
Generate Game-Design Documentation
The producer must work with the Design team to clarify the game-design documentation and ensure that it is easily producible and cohesive. Game designers have an inherent predisposition to create overly complicated, complex, and disjointed designs, that may require a lot of development time to fix. Game designers are supposed to do this, but the producers role is to help guide them back to the course of what is producible, possible, and still fun.
Handle Legal/Contractual Issues
Handle Licensing and Branding
Handle Platform Transition
Handle Quality Assurance
Manage Assets
ect, ect.
After reading that document about what a producer is supposed to do, I know exactly where to lay the blame. Now you can see it one of 3 ways:
1. Torres isn't really the producer, they just gave him the title. So essentially what's you're saying is that LucasArts is paying someone (probably) a lot of money to do nothing. So you're saying LucasArts isn't incompetent, they're just stupid, and somehow LA being stupid is SOE's fault.
2. Torres really is the producer, but he doesn't do everything that document says a producer should. So somehow a LucasArts employee not doing his job is SOE's fault.
3. Torres is the producer, and is involved with production (along with the rest of the LucasArts staff) and takes an equal share in the responsibility.
So which is it guys? LucasArts is stupid, don't do their jobs, or equally at fault?
Because you read some college prep courses career counselors guide on potential jobs when you grow up doesn't mean you at all understand a business relationship. I find Julio Torres to be nothing more then rubberstamp for SOE to do whatever it likes so long as it pays its licensing fees on time. They dont care about cannon (Blacksun, Mandalorian remanents, jedi, Han, Chewie, Luke, Obi-wan, Wookies, Trans). Most of the game fundamentally violates a lot of cannon. Some explain how LA heavy input who in the past so carefully put cannon above story would suddenly do a 360 if they had this total overwhelming control you state they have?
Here is my thoughts on the Lucas piece. When jedi where put into the game and the code allowed to be placed in it was rumored George himself allowed it. When holocrons where put in it was rumored high level la executives had to clear it (I think George). When jedi became a problem SOE developed the FRS as a way to satisfy Lucas who was rumored at the time to be quiet upset about the numeric amount of jedi in the timeline. Lucas then approved a FRS as a sort of control.
What I think happened is someone close to Lucas said there is a lot of chatter on swg right now. One of our folks at the ranch checked it out and thought you needed to see this version. I dont doubt Lucas saw the profession starting classes with horrid artwork, the lame special effects and the jedi starter class perversion of his vision and fired up the jet to the SOE camp. Lucas is known for griping special effects, sound and visuals. Have you seen the character creation screen?
If you dont think Lucas would puke over that I dont know what you think might envoke his anger. I remember specifically being told that the live event staff couldn't use core npc's in combat because of lucas and LA. Suddenly they can do the NGE?
Julio Torres is probably being summarily canned. I have absolute faith of it. I also believe soe wants tons of jedi and pulled a fast one on LA. That they know it sells copies but LA didn't want this game to be all about jedi because frankly the star wars world is supposedly about so much more then jedi. I dont think for 1 second Lucas is making a big change once he can get ahold of the situation and find a replacement for Torres.
It also fits with the theory of FRS removal supposedly for exploiting the system. SOE never wanted to limit jedi so they removed it as soon as possible.
Haha. Your funny.
Mark my words. George Lucas has a. had nothing to do with SWG, b. will never have anything to do with SWG, and c. has proved to the world through his patheticly comical prequels, and proposed TV spinoffs, that he no longer has any interest in the purity of his work, and instead worships at the temple of the almighty $.
NGE Refugee.
So just you.
And me.
LA and SOE are both responsible for what has happened.