Originally posted by haxxjoo Then answer why the community relations manager has stated he has met the producer all of 2 times in a recent post (today) Not only does that mean he isn't in the same building but that his contact with soe staff is limited. Of course Brenlo could be lying. As has been stated, Brenlo is new. Then you have to decide who you are going to put on the "Dev team" for the purposes of this discussion. Here you want to add an overpaid forum monitor, and later on you say only the programmers are part of the Dev team. So is it everyone or just the programmers? B - LA representative does a lot of finger waggling, and spouting off about 'Game needs Jedi.' This contridicts my view that LA only approves core star wars lore issues with the game and does not interfer with day to day operations. I believe LA only acts as an approval stamp on ideas. Then you weren't around pre-release where they said "LA approves EVERYTHING". Wepps claims to have been in beta, he should know this. C - SOE protests, but must comply. Why would SOE have a contract where they could have everything dictated to them and pay for that right? You need a lesson in business. LA choose SOE to code and manage its game. LA probably cannot do anything to SOE. I believe the contract has a built in automatic renewal clause. Why would soe risk a potentially windfall mmo? Why would LucasArts give up any part of the biggest cash cow they own? Why would anyone hire a programmer to do something they can't? You mean the guy the community relations rep meet 2 times in all his time at SOE? They guy who says they work for seperate companies and he has no idea why he cancelled an interview? That producer who is so watchful? Yes "all his time at SOE" being about 2 weeks now. I'll bet there are some accountants at SOE that haven't met the producer of SWG either.
The SWG development team has proven themselves incompetent. They never seem to be able to finish what they start, provide working code, test properly, or even add the right dimensions to the game that are required. So what if LA says "Jedi"? It's SOE that's screwing it up hard. I am 100% positive every developer is an SOE employee. Meaning the actual writers of the source code. So only programmers are "developers" then? The artists and other designers, what are they then? It would be impossibly stupid to let LA employees have access to your source code and would probably be the most absurd thing I have read. Oh sure steal how we could that and put it in any title you like... Are you totally insane? People protect source code better then they guard priceless art. Ah except name the other MMO that LucasArts has. I'm sure (I realize I'm not as knowledgeable in business as you ) that SOE has a no comptete clause, if it was needed.
Because you read some college prep courses career counselors guide on potential jobs when you grow up doesn't mean you at all understand a business relationship. I find Julio Torres to be nothing more then rubberstamp for SOE to do whatever it likes so long as it pays its licensing fees on time. They dont care about cannon (Blacksun, Mandalorian remanents, jedi, Han, Chewie, Luke, Obi-wan, Wookies, Trans). Most of the game fundamentally violates a lot of cannon. Some explain how LA heavy input who in the past so carefully put cannon above story
Um when did ANYONE put cannon before story in SWG? From release there have been huge holes in it. Hell George Lucas himself cares less about cannon than the fans. Otherwise explain Leia saying "I remember her a little, she died when I was very young. She was beautiful, but very sad." talking about her mother who died when she was 30 seconds old.
Ah but you say the EU explains all that. But you don't really want to go there do you? Because if you go to the EU, then that opens a whole slew of examples where SWG didn't follow cannon at release. So no SWG (or Geroge Lucas) has ever clung as tightly to cannon as the fans.
would suddenly do a 360 if they had this total overwhelming control you state they have?
First I need to make sure you do realize Julio Tores does work for LucasArts right? now let me post a quote from an intview from him:
OGaming: Who maintains series continuity? And with the new updates in place, are you allowed to take any liberties with existing characters and storylines? If so, to what degree?
JT: That is actually the beauty of Galaxies. Though we dont tend to take liberties when it comes to story as the Star Wars fiction and canon is very protected, we do at times allow for things that appeal to gamers that would otherwise not be permitted as they doesnt fit with the existing fiction and canon. An example of this is that we allow multiple Jedi to exist in the game even though it is set at a time when there are very few Jedi left in the universe. We strive to deliver a fun balance of gameplay that stays consistent with the storylines.
Here is my thoughts on the Lucas piece. When jedi where put into the game and the code allowed to be placed in it was rumored George himself allowed it. When holocrons where put in it was rumored high level la executives had to clear it (I think George). When jedi became a problem SOE developed the FRS as a way to satisfy Lucas who was rumored at the time to be quiet upset about the numeric amount of jedi in the timeline. Lucas then approved a FRS as a sort of control.
These are some of the rumors floating around the boards that refuse to see LucasArts as anything but the greatest thing since sliced bread. Do your OWN research. Figure it all out yourself, look at the facts, and you'll see that LA has been in the thick of things from the begining.
What I think happened is someone close to Lucas said there is a lot of chatter on swg right now. One of our folks at the ranch checked it out and thought you needed to see this version. I dont doubt Lucas saw the profession starting classes with horrid artwork, the lame special effects and the jedi starter class perversion of his vision and fired up the jet to the SOE camp. Lucas is known for griping special effects, sound and visuals. Have you seen the character creation screen?
If you dont think Lucas would puke over that I dont know what you think might envoke his anger. I remember specifically being told that the live event staff couldn't use core npc's in combat because of lucas and LA. Suddenly they can do the NGE?
Julio Torres is probably being summarily canned. I have absolute faith of it. I also believe soe wants tons of jedi and pulled a fast one on LA. That they know it sells copies but LA didn't want this game to be all about jedi because frankly the star wars world is supposedly about so much more then jedi. I dont think for 1 second Lucas is making a big change once he can get ahold of the situation and find a replacement for Torres.
So please explain to me why when the game was released SOE (Ralph Koster to be exact) was saying Jedi wouldn't be in the game, while an advertisement (which we all know LucasArts is in charge of advertising for the game) came out saying you could be a jedi. How does that fit into your master plan that SOE wanted Jedi not LA?
It also fits with the theory of FRS removal supposedly for exploiting the system. SOE never wanted to limit jedi so they removed it as soon as possible.
Bro I'm going to let this one go. You are REALLY not ready for the reality about LucasArts or Gerogie himself. I get the feeling if anyone were to get though the illusinons you created for yourself, your world would come crashing down.
That's be great IF that was the way it worked, but it isn't:
Originally posted by Wepps
Jodo, I think we all accept this now. But you have to understand how it actually works. A - LA representative shows up, people don serious masks and enter the war room. LA representitive doesn't have to "show up", he's already there. Not only is he already there, as a matter of fact, he's the producer of the friggin game (I think I've said that before)' Then answer why the community relations manager has stated he has met the producer all of 2 times in a recent post (today) Not only does that mean he isn't in the same building but that his contact with soe staff is limited. Of course Brenlo could be lying. Maybe it has something to do withthe fact that he just started having anything to really do with SWG? He is fillin gin for Tiggs and knows verfy little about what is really going on as he has openly admitted just today. Brenlo was here boss B - LA representative does a lot of finger waggling, and spouting off about 'Game needs Jedi.' This is correct, as the producer he pretty much says what goes on. This contridicts my view that LA only approves core star wars lore issues with the game and does not interfer with day to day operations. I believe LA only acts as an approval stamp on ideas. Guildie of mine was an intern at LA specifically for SWG and LA's interest in it. I think you would be surprised just how much LA has a say so on many matters in this game. He never broke NDA, but we all get a feel for just how much LA has their hands in the day to day operations of this game. You are going to have to give an example. I can at least dig up some posts where TH quotes having to ask LA permission on cannon changes they wanted. C - SOE protests, but must comply. Yep, LA being the BOSS and all. Why would SOE have a contract where they could have everything dictated to them and pay for that right? You need a lesson in business. LA choose SOE to code and manage its game. LA probably cannot do anything to SOE. I believe the contract has a built in automatic renewal clause. Why would soe risk a potentially windfall mmo? You seem to be under the impression that SOE is bigger than Star Wars. Star Wars, LA and Lucas hold the basket full of eggs. SOE runs the game..think of them as the contractor in the construction of an office building. LA is the developement firm. Ultimatly, they have the say so..and they can step inthe building and decide they don't like the door handles and demand they be changed as well. Sony is a bigger company then Lucas Arts. Hate to burst your bubble. You don't understand how licensing at all works. SOE is licensed to produce a star wars game. It is more like a bar. I sell your liquor at my bar but you don't like my bars image with all those naked ladies. You pull your liquor. SOE would have to remove all trademarked materials. Inside the contract is some conditions on what is and isn't acceptable and what needs approval from the vendor most likely the jedi. D - SWG team incapable of providing it in a working format, and ALL game fixes and professional reworks come to a halt for over a year while they screw with it. All under the watchful direction of the producer, Julio Tores, who works for LucasArts. You mean the guy the community relations rep meet 2 times in all his time at SOE? They guy who says they work for seperate companies and he has no idea why he cancelled an interview? That producer who is so watchful? Already addressed. Brenlo is not envolved with day to day operations with SWg nor is he a developer. He is filling in for Tiggs...who we all know was not envolved in making things happen, only gathering info and passing it along. "I do not know. Sorry. Julio does not work for me, nor I for him. In fact, you might have noticed, we don't even work for the same company.
I have met Julio on two occasions and have found him to be a decent chap. I am sure he had a good reason. I will not speculate as to what that reason might be." -Brenlo
The SWG development team has proven themselves incompetent. They never seem to be able to finish what they start, provide working code, test properly, or even add the right dimensions to the game that are required. So what if LA says "Jedi"? It's SOE that's screwing it up hard. Again when you say "Dev team" there are members of LucasArts in that team. That means SOE isn't screwing it up hard, SOE and LucasArts are screwing it up hard together I am 100% positive every developer is an SOE employee. Meaning the actual writers of the source code. It would be impossibly stupid to let LA employees have access to your source code and would probably be the most absurd thing I have read. Oh sure steal how we could that and put it in any title you like... Are you totally insane? People protect source code better then they guard priceless art. Then you would be 100% wrong in your assumption. LA has a very big role in developement and it is known that they do have devlopers involved. I don't know that they are buddies in the next cube, but I do they they are involved and have been as early as JTL. Access the source code? Its Star Wars. Lucas has every right to the source code. You would have to be insane to think that Lucas didn't do everything he could to insure he had his fingers on every part of this to protect his investments in Star Wars. He can protect his franchise by pulling the license to use his name, any likeness to his content. Why would he need the source code to protect it? Still have not answered how any company in the software business would allow any other company access to its proprietary source code besides lucas is a genius.
LA and SOE are both responsible for what has happened.
No SOE is. LA grants a license. If soe so chooses they can violate the terms up and down to mars and back and LA couldn't do a thing to stop SOE. All they can do is pull the license. I am certain of this fact. Name 1 incident where SOE has stated any decision regarding the game wasn't its own?
Next up is Jod. Don't worry my world is all good. I know I will be right and have to unfortunately make you cry.
Originally posted by haxxjoo Then answer why the community relations manager has stated he has met the producer all of 2 times in a recent post (today) Not only does that mean he isn't in the same building but that his contact with soe staff is limited. Of course Brenlo could be lying. As has been stated, Brenlo is new. Then you have to decide who you are going to put on the "Dev team" for the purposes of this discussion. Here you want to add an overpaid forum monitor, and later on you say only the programmers are part of the Dev team. So is it everyone or just the programmers? Brenlo's First Post that you can view is 5-3-05. That isn't very new and I doubt the content goes back much further. Notice the title MANAGER. I never said Brenlo was part of the dev team. He works in Austin. He admits Julio isn't even in the same neighborhood. He most likely works at the ranch. B - LA representative does a lot of finger waggling, and spouting off about 'Game needs Jedi.' This contridicts my view that LA only approves core star wars lore issues with the game and does not interfer with day to day operations. I believe LA only acts as an approval stamp on ideas. Then you weren't around pre-release where they said "LA approves EVERYTHING". Wepps claims to have been in beta, he should know this. Approves and comes up with and codes ideas is LIGHT years apart. Saying we'd like to have vulcans in the game would need approval. That doesn't mean anything about LA doing any actual work nor actually having any input besides what SOE tells LA it wants to do. LA can say no. C - SOE protests, but must comply. Why would SOE have a contract where they could have everything dictated to them and pay for that right? You need a lesson in business. LA choose SOE to code and manage its game. LA probably cannot do anything to SOE. I believe the contract has a built in automatic renewal clause. Why would soe risk a potentially windfall mmo? Why would LucasArts give up any part of the biggest cash cow they own? Why would anyone hire a programmer to do something they can't? Because they DIDN'T have any programmers who could build an MMO and didn't want to make that investment so the licensed the likeness to a company who at the time had the most successful MMO ever. Figuring they would get a huge chunk of cash off royalties. That is unless you think someone at LA actually also makes the toys, cereal boxes, lightsaber watches and all the other items they license for a royalty fee. Question 2 is because they COULDN't CODE AN MMO. You mean the guy the community relations rep meet 2 times in all his time at SOE? They guy who says they work for seperate companies and he has no idea why he cancelled an interview? That producer who is so watchful? Yes "all his time at SOE" being about 2 weeks now. I'll bet there are some accountants at SOE that haven't met the producer of SWG either. First post 5-3-05 on archive. Check yourself. Guess my world is not totally going to explode.
The SWG development team has proven themselves incompetent. They never seem to be able to finish what they start, provide working code, test properly, or even add the right dimensions to the game that are required. So what if LA says "Jedi"? It's SOE that's screwing it up hard. I am 100% positive every developer is an SOE employee. Meaning the actual writers of the source code. So only programmers are "developers" then? The artists and other designers, what are they then? Yes. Developers are the people who actually write source code. Artists make conceptual art. Designers of what? It would be impossibly stupid to let LA employees have access to your source code and would probably be the most absurd thing I have read. Oh sure steal how we could that and put it in any title you like... Are you totally insane? People protect source code better then they guard priceless art. Ah except name the other MMO that LucasArts has. I'm sure (I realize I'm not as knowledgeable in business as you ) that SOE has a no comptete clause, if it was needed. Clearly you dont even know what a non compete clause is. Now do you understand how limited they are. LA couldn't make another MMO. Selling source code to Blizzard, NC Soft other competitors because of a relationship falling apart... Don't think SOE isn't protective of its developers and content. If NC Soft or Blizzard could steal the source code for crafting and have to spend only a little time porting it into its game why wouldn't they?
Because you read some college prep courses career counselors guide on potential jobs when you grow up doesn't mean you at all understand a business relationship. I find Julio Torres to be nothing more then rubberstamp for SOE to do whatever it likes so long as it pays its licensing fees on time. They dont care about cannon (Blacksun, Mandalorian remanents, jedi, Han, Chewie, Luke, Obi-wan, Wookies, Trans). Most of the game fundamentally violates a lot of cannon. Some explain how LA heavy input who in the past so carefully put cannon above story
Um when did ANYONE put cannon before story in SWG? From release there have been huge holes in it. Hell George Lucas himself cares less about cannon than the fans. Otherwise explain Leia saying "I remember her a little, she died when I was very young. She was beautiful, but very sad." talking about her mother who died when she was 30 seconds old.
I would have used the Firespray as a better example because Jedi are unique beings with different memories of past, present and future. They see things you wouldn't understand. Lucas is very much a wise man on cannon. He is very careful what he has allowed in other games. Jedi Academy, Rebel Assualt, Tie Fighter, X-wing, in titles with LA as the designer never have I seen such blatant disregard for cannon. 99% of people who play swg agree just forget cannon with swg. I can handle that. Don't pretend that LA hasn't been cannon centric they practically invented cannon.
Ah but you say the EU explains all that. But you don't really want to go there do you? Because if you go to the EU, then that opens a whole slew of examples where SWG didn't follow cannon at release. So no SWG (or Geroge Lucas) has ever clung as tightly to cannon as the fans.
I didn't quote the EU at all. Altough the eu is cannon. Whether you like it or not LA approved the writing. BUT THEY DIDN"T WRITE IT!
would suddenly do a 360 if they had this total overwhelming control you state they have?
First I need to make sure you do realize Julio Tores does work for LucasArts right? now let me post a quote from an intview from him:
OGaming: Who maintains series continuity? And with the new updates in place, are you allowed to take any liberties with existing characters and storylines? If so, to what degree?
JT: That is actually the beauty of Galaxies. Though we dont tend to take liberties when it comes to story as the Star Wars fiction and canon is very protected, we do at times allow for things that appeal to gamers that would otherwise not be permitted as they doesnt fit with the existing fiction and canon. An example of this is that we allow multiple Jedi to exist in the game even though it is set at a time when there are very few Jedi left in the universe. We strive to deliver a fun balance of gameplay that stays consistent with the storylines.
You can read the full interview here:
Excellent you proved LA wants to stick to canon. Notice he didn't say "We permit multiple Jedi Knights and other Sith?" Becareful when you assume Torres approved everything. I notice he says we permit and we allow alot. Not LA makes a decision for the game and makes SOE do it for us. I fully believe SOE says we want to do this and LA signs off on it. That is when they actually do it. I dont think LA knew the NGE was going the way jedi is now.
Here is my thoughts on the Lucas piece. When jedi where put into the game and the code allowed to be placed in it was rumored George himself allowed it. When holocrons where put in it was rumored high level la executives had to clear it (I think George). When jedi became a problem SOE developed the FRS as a way to satisfy Lucas who was rumored at the time to be quiet upset about the numeric amount of jedi in the timeline. Lucas then approved a FRS as a sort of control.
These are some of the rumors floating around the boards that refuse to see LucasArts as anything but the greatest thing since sliced bread. Do your OWN research. Figure it all out yourself, look at the facts, and you'll see that LA has been in the thick of things from the begining.
I have yet to see anything showing LA coding or making decisions on the games direction period end of story. Check yourself. All I see is TH speaking for the SOE devs. And given Torres doesn't even work in the building where the game is actually built and maintained how does one come to any other conculsion.
What I think happened is someone close to Lucas said there is a lot of chatter on swg right now. One of our folks at the ranch checked it out and thought you needed to see this version. I dont doubt Lucas saw the profession starting classes with horrid artwork, the lame special effects and the jedi starter class perversion of his vision and fired up the jet to the SOE camp. Lucas is known for griping special effects, sound and visuals. Have you seen the character creation screen?
If you dont think Lucas would puke over that I dont know what you think might envoke his anger. I remember specifically being told that the live event staff couldn't use core npc's in combat because of lucas and LA. Suddenly they can do the NGE?
Julio Torres is probably being summarily canned. I have absolute faith of it. I also believe soe wants tons of jedi and pulled a fast one on LA. That they know it sells copies but LA didn't want this game to be all about jedi because frankly the star wars world is supposedly about so much more then jedi. I dont think for 1 second Lucas is making a big change once he can get ahold of the situation and find a replacement for Torres.
So please explain to me why when the game was released SOE (Ralph Koster to be exact) was saying Jedi wouldn't be in the game, while an advertisement (which we all know LucasArts is in charge of advertising for the game) came out saying you could be a jedi. How does that fit into your master plan that SOE wanted Jedi not LA?
Funny because that is absolute revisionist history. The games first shown profession from beta was CH. On the beta boards it talked explictly about allowing jedi players. I remember specifically the beta website and that was when I war roleplaying in yahoo groups with the GE. A group of hardcore roleplayers excited to play a star wars mmo with jedi. I also remember they said the jedi level of knight would be near impossible to achive but would be well worth it if anyone got there. -SOE Board.
It also fits with the theory of FRS removal supposedly for exploiting the system. SOE never wanted to limit jedi so they removed it as soon as possible.
Bro I'm going to let this one go. You are REALLY not ready for the reality about LucasArts or Gerogie himself. I get the feeling if anyone were to get though the illusinons you created for yourself, your world would come crashing down.
The last comment. I am not the one who needs to check there facts. On at least 2 occasions I have facts that contridict you. If I was a casual reader that alone would make me question you.
That's be great IF that was the way it worked, but it isn't:
Originally posted by Wepps
Jodo, I think we all accept this now. But you have to understand how it actually works. A - LA representative shows up, people don serious masks and enter the war room. LA representitive doesn't have to "show up", he's already there. Not only is he already there, as a matter of fact, he's the producer of the friggin game (I think I've said that before)' Then answer why the community relations manager has stated he has met the producer all of 2 times in a recent post (today) Not only does that mean he isn't in the same building but that his contact with soe staff is limited. Of course Brenlo could be lying. Maybe it has something to do withthe fact that he just started having anything to really do with SWG? He is fillin gin for Tiggs and knows verfy little about what is really going on as he has openly admitted just today. Brenlo was here boss Sure he was. As a regular player. He is over a bunch of SOE stuff and is only filling in for the time being...read his posts at least. You know what you are talking about next time. B - LA representative does a lot of finger waggling, and spouting off about 'Game needs Jedi.' This is correct, as the producer he pretty much says what goes on. This contridicts my view that LA only approves core star wars lore issues with the game and does not interfer with day to day operations. I believe LA only acts as an approval stamp on ideas. Guildie of mine was an intern at LA specifically for SWG and LA's interest in it. I think you would be surprised just how much LA has a say so on many matters in this game. He never broke NDA, but we all get a feel for just how much LA has their hands in the day to day operations of this game. You are going to have to give an example. I can at least dig up some posts where TH quotes having to ask LA permission on cannon changes they wanted. He worked on JTL from the beginning. He also worked on Mustafar. Even apologized for the NGE in our private forums. He got his paycheck from LA. Lot of good a quote fro TH will do you though. He did more than enough to convince us of how active LA was in this game. C - SOE protests, but must comply. Yep, LA being the BOSS and all. Why would SOE have a contract where they could have everything dictated to them and pay for that right? You need a lesson in business. LA choose SOE to code and manage its game. LA probably cannot do anything to SOE. I believe the contract has a built in automatic renewal clause. Why would soe risk a potentially windfall mmo? You seem to be under the impression that SOE is bigger than Star Wars. Star Wars, LA and Lucas hold the basket full of eggs. SOE runs the game..think of them as the contractor in the construction of an office building. LA is the developement firm. Ultimatly, they have the say so..and they can step inthe building and decide they don't like the door handles and demand they be changed as well. Sony is a bigger company then Lucas Arts. Hate to burst your bubble. You don't understand how licensing at all works. SOE is licensed to produce a star wars game. It is more like a bar. I sell your liquor at my bar but you don't like my bars image with all those naked ladies. You pull your liquor. SOE would have to remove all trademarked materials. Inside the contract is some conditions on what is and isn't acceptable and what needs approval from the vendor most likely the jedi. As if the lawyers for LA would allow such a thing. They did all they could to insure Lucas doesn't lose. Its all about the mighty dollar. Act all high and mighty all you like. Until you have seen the contract, you don't know any more than I do. D - SWG team incapable of providing it in a working format, and ALL game fixes and professional reworks come to a halt for over a year while they screw with it. All under the watchful direction of the producer, Julio Tores, who works for LucasArts. You mean the guy the community relations rep meet 2 times in all his time at SOE? They guy who says they work for seperate companies and he has no idea why he cancelled an interview? That producer who is so watchful? Already addressed. Brenlo is not envolved with day to day operations with SWg nor is he a developer. He is filling in for Tiggs...who we all know was not envolved in making things happen, only gathering info and passing it along. "I do not know. Sorry. Julio does not work for me, nor I for him. In fact, you might have noticed, we don't even work for the same company.
I have met Julio on two occasions and have found him to be a decent chap. I am sure he had a good reason. I will not speculate as to what that reason might be." -Brenlo
I already read that post. It gives you absolutly no support, and actually supports my stance. Thanks for trying though.
The SWG development team has proven themselves incompetent. They never seem to be able to finish what they start, provide working code, test properly, or even add the right dimensions to the game that are required. So what if LA says "Jedi"? It's SOE that's screwing it up hard. Again when you say "Dev team" there are members of LucasArts in that team. That means SOE isn't screwing it up hard, SOE and LucasArts are screwing it up hard together I am 100% positive every developer is an SOE employee. Meaning the actual writers of the source code. It would be impossibly stupid to let LA employees have access to your source code and would probably be the most absurd thing I have read. Oh sure steal how we could that and put it in any title you like... Are you totally insane? People protect source code better then they guard priceless art. Then you would be 100% wrong in your assumption. LA has a very big role in developement and it is known that they do have devlopers involved. I don't know that they are buddies in the next cube, but I do they they are involved and have been as early as JTL. Access the source code? Its Star Wars. Lucas has every right to the source code. You would have to be insane to think that Lucas didn't do everything he could to insure he had his fingers on every part of this to protect his investments in Star Wars. He can protect his franchise by pulling the license to use his name, any likeness to his content. Why would he need the source code to protect it? Still have not answered how any company in the software business would allow any other company access to its proprietary source code besides lucas is a genius. Nor have you offered any proof that LA would not have sought to insure that they had some right to the code to insure their efforts in it were not missused nor used elsewhere without the SW logo on them. They put money into the code as well. They arent going to let SOE march off and plaster Buck Rogers on the box with code that LA devs also worked on.
LA and SOE are both responsible for what has happened.
No SOE is. LA grants a license. If soe so chooses they can violate the terms up and down to mars and back and LA couldn't do a thing to stop SOE. All they can do is pull the license. I am certain of this fact. Name 1 incident where SOE has stated any decision regarding the game wasn't its own?
Next up is Jod. Don't worry my world is all good. I know I will be right and have to unfortunately make you cry.
Such confidence....it only leads to you falling harder and making a bigger fool of yourself. I honestly dont care if you believe me or not. You can live in your own little world.
Will you people STOP with the rainbow coalition.. you're making my head ache.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
here is some evidence of community relations, dev, producer interaction. I am positive SOE does all the work and all the ideas and only needs la to make sure it doesnt violate terms of contract.
Dude, I spent all day lobbying hard for player ideas. The thing is that this is all about real game development for an MMO and a large team and its a lot more in depth than it appears.
On the vendor/dropped skill issue, Im speaking with DocSavag about that and its a correspondent issue.
I think Ill be able to get it so that basic vendors have 150 and merchants can earn more slots as they earn skill boxes (which I think is a great idea) and Im checking into the correspondent issue. It probably wont be until next week though.
I have to champion this issues, write up tomorrows friday feature, get the droid invasion written up for In Dev and get the patch notes notes done. On Monday Im meeting with a producer and a developer to go over correspondent issues and find out whats what. (Some are fixed, some are in QA and some issues are going to In Concept.)
Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl Community Relations Manager
Originally posted by Shayde Will you people STOP with the rainbow coalition.. you're making my head ache.
Word!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by RangerSWG Originally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by Shayde Will you people STOP with the rainbow coalition.. you're making my head ache.
Word!
Spoilsports. I'd just necked a mug of strong coffee and set teh screen on auto-scroll. Got to love taht multicoloured vapour trail effect
you almost made me spew my morning coffee on that one...
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I read that post and as has been stated, i believe it was a correspondant. George lucas probably doesnt even know what SWG is or a mmo for that matter.
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
TH COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER! FORMERLY ASSISTANT COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER UNDER Q3PO.
Is this somehow unclear. Tiggs leaving/firing was announced by BRENLO. HER BOSS. I am not certain how this is being made into Brenlo is some peon former player who is brand new and does nothing. He is the director the community relations staff.
I am through with this thread as I think I have smacked around the kids enough. I am tired of them making no sense after I hit them. Fine dont admit soe runs the show. Keep smearing LA because you think somehow they hold some magically power over swg... ohhhhh..... I think I see a Lucas Arts Blue Glowie approaching.... ohhhhh..... he is saying.... we run the game and make it work and make all the decisions.... ohhhh.....
I find this side to be nonsense. LA is a consultant nothing more. They yielded the franchise rights to SOE for this game and look what soe has done. I am willing to place myself on the line and say that LA pulls the license for this game. That would absolutely prove my point when they shut down the servers. If LA was incharge as you state LA would be able to have them run on servers it controls or leases.
Originally posted by haxxjoo So please explain to me why when before the game was released SOE (Ralph Koster to be exact) was saying Jedi wouldn't be in the game, while an advertisement (which we all know LucasArts is in charge of advertising for the game) came out saying you could be a jedi. How does that fit into your master plan that SOE wanted Jedi not LA? Funny because that is absolute revisionist history. The games first shown profession from beta was CH. On the beta boards it talked explictly about allowing jedi players. I remember specifically the beta website and that was when I war roleplaying in yahoo groups with the GE. A group of hardcore roleplayers excited to play a star wars mmo with jedi. I also remember they said the jedi level of knight would be near impossible to achive but would be well worth it if anyone got there. -SOE Board.
The last comment. I am not the one who needs to check there facts. On at least 2 occasions I have facts that contridict you. If I was a casual reader that alone would make me question you.
In one instance I mistyped, I have editited in the word I left out. All of this happened well before beta. In the second instance I was being sarcastic when I said 2 weeks.
As far as the Leia thing, there are hundereds of examples I could have brought up that shows the movies contridicting themselves, but what you're telling me is that at 30 seconds old, Leia is a jedi, but Luke, who is "The One", isn't. You see we call that the fans rationalization, proving that the fans care more about cannon than George.
Originally posted by haxxjoo WTF! BRENLO IS THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY RELATIONS! TIGSS COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER! TH COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER! FORMERLY ASSISTANT COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER UNDER Q3PO. Is this somehow unclear. Tiggs leaving/firing was announced by BRENLO. HER BOSS. I am not certain how this is being made into Brenlo is some peon former player who is brand new and does nothing. He is the director the community relations staff. I am through with this thread as I think I have smacked around the kids enough. I am tired of them making no sense after I hit them. Fine dont admit soe runs the show. Keep smearing LA because you think somehow they hold some magically power over swg... ohhhhh..... I think I see a Lucas Arts Blue Glowie approaching.... ohhhhh..... he is saying.... we run the game and make it work and make all the decisions.... ohhhh..... I find this side to be nonsense. LA is a consultant nothing more. They yielded the franchise rights to SOE for this game and look what soe has done. I am willing to place myself on the line and say that LA pulls the license for this game. That would absolutely prove my point when they shut down the servers. If LA was incharge as you state LA would be able to have them run on servers it controls or leases.
And Ralph Koster is now EVERYBODY's boss, how much input do you think he has in SWG specifically? You are deluded. You want to ignore the fact taht LucasArts has been making crappy games for years, has made so many poor descions in the past, and even though all their other stupid decisions are happeneing in SWG, you don't want to see the light.
As I've said Julio Torres is the producer. he's either directly involved like his job titles says he should be, in which case it's his (and by default LucasArts') fault, or he isn't doing his job which means it's his (and by default LucasArts') fault.
Originally posted by Jodokai Originally posted by haxxjoo WTF! BRENLO IS THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY RELATIONS! TIGSS COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER! TH COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER! FORMERLY ASSISTANT COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER UNDER Q3PO. Is this somehow unclear. Tiggs leaving/firing was announced by BRENLO. HER BOSS. I am not certain how this is being made into Brenlo is some peon former player who is brand new and does nothing. He is the director the community relations staff. I am through with this thread as I think I have smacked around the kids enough. I am tired of them making no sense after I hit them. Fine dont admit soe runs the show. Keep smearing LA because you think somehow they hold some magically power over swg... ohhhhh..... I think I see a Lucas Arts Blue Glowie approaching.... ohhhhh..... he is saying.... we run the game and make it work and make all the decisions.... ohhhh..... I find this side to be nonsense. LA is a consultant nothing more. They yielded the franchise rights to SOE for this game and look what soe has done. I am willing to place myself on the line and say that LA pulls the license for this game. That would absolutely prove my point when they shut down the servers. If LA was incharge as you state LA would be able to have them run on servers it controls or leases. And Ralph Koster is now EVERYBODY's boss, how much input do you think he has in SWG specifically? You are deluded. You want to ignore the fact taht LucasArts has been making crappy games for years, has made so many poor descions in the past, and even though all their other stupid decisions are happeneing in SWG, you don't want to see the light. As I've said Julio Torres is the producer. he's either directly involved like his job titles says he should be, in which case it's his (and by default LucasArts') fault, or he isn't doing his job which means it's his (and by default LucasArts') fault.
Hey! Sam and Max and Fullthrottle rocked...
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
And who does Ralph Koster and John Smedley work for?
I never said Lucas Arts wasn't blameless. I am simply stating that LA is not controlling the game, SOE controls it, codes it and can do things LA doesn't necessary agree with or know about. Hence the entire point of this thread and the fact that it IS probably true that George himself had approved jedi as long as frs was part of the game. I do not doubt this to be the case. A decision to allow jedi as npcs or players in this timeframe almost certainly involves high level la executives if not george himself.
My assumption is Julio Torres felt SOE snow balled him on the NGE and what it actually contained and told his bosses about it, which brought the man himself out. Or torres approved it not realizing what was in it. George found out about it and is mad and paid SOE a visit.
Something doesn't add up with your story of LA is oh so happy with the direction of swg. If that was the case then wouldn't they be the ones raving about it. torres cancelled that interview. Why? If LA is behind swg and thus the NGE they would be the ones supporting it fully. I dont really see that. I see Smedley is though. Interview from Nov. 11th. I am not saying LA didn't sign off on the NGE. I am not saying they where not consulted on the NGE. I think it was not close to what was probably discussed and agreed to and I think that is why all the commotion from the devs and community relations staff. All of this reeks of LA deemed soe but certain things inplace like the frs. Dont be shocked to see it in patch notes.
Originally posted by haxxjoo And who does Ralph Koster and John Smedley work for? I never said Lucas Arts wasn't blameless. I am simply stating that LA is not controlling the game, SOE controls it, codes it and can do things LA doesn't necessary agree with or know about. Hence the entire point of this thread and the fact that it IS probably true that George himself had approved jedi as long as frs was part of the game. I do not doubt this to be the case. A decision to allow jedi as npcs or players in this timeframe almost certainly involves high level la executives if not george himself. My assumption is Julio Torres felt SOE snow balled him on the NGE and what it actually contained and told his bosses about it, which brought the man himself out. Or torres approved it not realizing what was in it. George found out about it and is mad and paid SOE a visit. Something doesn't add up with your story of LA is oh so happy with the direction of swg. If that was the case then wouldn't they be the ones raving about it. torres cancelled that interview. Why? If LA is behind swg and thus the NGE they would be the ones supporting it fully. I dont really see that. I see Smedley is though. Interview from Nov. 11th. I am not saying LA didn't sign off on the NGE. I am not saying they where not consulted on the NGE. I think it was not close to what was probably discussed and agreed to and I think that is why all the commotion from the devs and community relations staff. All of this reeks of LA deemed soe but certain things inplace like the frs. Dont be shocked to see it in patch notes.
So let me get this straight. You actually think George Lucas himself got upset over a video game and went and talked to SOE himself about it? Your arguement had alittle merit with me til you threw that in, however I can't even take you serious now.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by haxxjoo WTF! BRENLO IS THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY RELATIONS! TIGSS COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER! TH COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER! FORMERLY ASSISTANT COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER UNDER Q3PO. Is this somehow unclear. Tiggs leaving/firing was announced by BRENLO. HER BOSS. I am not certain how this is being made into Brenlo is some peon former player who is brand new and does nothing. He is the director the community relations staff. I am through with this thread as I think I have smacked around the kids enough. I am tired of them making no sense after I hit them. Fine dont admit soe runs the show. Keep smearing LA because you think somehow they hold some magically power over swg... ohhhhh..... I think I see a Lucas Arts Blue Glowie approaching.... ohhhhh..... he is saying.... we run the game and make it work and make all the decisions.... ohhhh..... I find this side to be nonsense. LA is a consultant nothing more. They yielded the franchise rights to SOE for this game and look what soe has done. I am willing to place myself on the line and say that LA pulls the license for this game. That would absolutely prove my point when they shut down the servers. If LA was incharge as you state LA would be able to have them run on servers it controls or leases.
What a foolish bit of writing.
1. Brenlo posted about being a player in SWG... A BH specifically...just yesterday
2. He is the boss. He canned Tiggs and is filling in for her while there is no one else to do the job. That doesn't mean he knows what is going on. I do work all day long and my boss doesn't know what files I am working on...heck...she isn't even in the same county as me. If I am sick or quit....she has to then get envolved...and then my customers get to see her up front. Same holds true for Brenlo. He is the global director as in over EQ and EQ2, along with all the other MMOs they run. SWG was Tiggs acocunt. He has 10 other employees just like her. With her out of the picture and the rest of his employees busy on real games...he has to drop to her level to fill in while doing his own job as well (he confirmed that yesterday in a post as well). It in no way means he is in the know before (which he openly admitted to)...because it was her job..not his.
As for the LA and SOE blame game....one day you will see the big picture. Those of us with connections...whether you believe us or not...do know what is going on. LA has been to envolved in some aspects and not enough in others. They are certainly not without blame for this problem. LA is after money just like the next guy. That is all Star Wars is to them as well. It is not the same for them as it is for us.
Originally posted by haxxjoo And who does Ralph Koster and John Smedley work for? I never said Lucas Arts wasn't blameless. I am simply stating that LA is not controlling the game, SOE controls it, codes it and can do things LA doesn't necessary agree with or know about. Hence the entire point of this thread and the fact that it IS probably true that George himself had approved jedi as long as frs was part of the game. I do not doubt this to be the case. A decision to allow jedi as npcs or players in this timeframe almost certainly involves high level la executives if not george himself. My assumption is Julio Torres felt SOE snow balled him on the NGE and what it actually contained and told his bosses about it, which brought the man himself out. Or torres approved it not realizing what was in it. George found out about it and is mad and paid SOE a visit. Something doesn't add up with your story of LA is oh so happy with the direction of swg. If that was the case then wouldn't they be the ones raving about it. torres cancelled that interview. Why? If LA is behind swg and thus the NGE they would be the ones supporting it fully. I dont really see that. I see Smedley is though. Interview from Nov. 11th. I am not saying LA didn't sign off on the NGE. I am not saying they where not consulted on the NGE. I think it was not close to what was probably discussed and agreed to and I think that is why all the commotion from the devs and community relations staff. All of this reeks of LA deemed soe but certain things inplace like the frs. Dont be shocked to see it in patch notes.
So let me get this straight. You actually think George Lucas himself got upset over a video game and went and talked to SOE himself about it? Your arguement had alittle merit with me til you threw that in, however I can't even take you serious now.
Gotta agree with Fadeus on this one. While I do beleive that LA and SOE are both equally responsible for the mess brought about by the NGE, I do not believe that Lucas walked into a meeting with SOE because Torres got blind sided by the NGE....nor do I believe that Lucas had so much envovlement to actually be in a meeting about jedi. I do know he keeps tabs on things, but get real....Lucase wasn't born on a farm yesterday.
Oh come on sure he did. He was on the set of the prequals and said, "Whoa, hold on guys. SOE is screwing up Jedi in one of my hundreds of video games. Stop everything while I go meet with them. Sure I started a whole company to take care of things like this, but I always like to make sure I pay people that don't do their jobs."
That's how it happened right?
EDIT: I was wrong, SOE does have an office in Austin not LA
Originally posted by kjfett Gotta agree with Fadeus on this one. While I do beleive that LA and SOE are both equally responsible for the mess brought about by the NGE, I do not believe that Lucas walked into a meeting with SOE because Torres got blind sided by the NGE....nor do I believe that Lucas had so much envovlement to actually be in a meeting about jedi. I do know he keeps tabs on things, but get real....Lucase wasn't born on a farm yesterday.
Oh come on sure he did. He was on the set of the prequals and said, "Whoa, hold on guys. SOE is screwing up Jedi in one of my hundreds of video games. Stop everything while I go meet with them. Sure I started a whole company to take care of things like this, but I always like to make sure I pay people that don't do their jobs." That's how it happened right? And just to be clear on something else: SOE's offices are in California, LucasArts' are in Austin, focus groups for the NGE were held where now? Ah, any lights come on for anyone?
lol. That exactly it! You make a good point as well....the ones defending LA only end up making the company look like one of the worst run companies in the US.
Originally posted by kjfett Gotta agree with Fadeus on this one. While I do beleive that LA and SOE are both equally responsible for the mess brought about by the NGE, I do not believe that Lucas walked into a meeting with SOE because Torres got blind sided by the NGE....nor do I believe that Lucas had so much envovlement to actually be in a meeting about jedi. I do know he keeps tabs on things, but get real....Lucase wasn't born on a farm yesterday.
Oh come on sure he did. He was on the set of the prequals and said, "Whoa, hold on guys. SOE is screwing up Jedi in one of my hundreds of video games. Stop everything while I go meet with them. Sure I started a whole company to take care of things like this, but I always like to make sure I pay people that don't do their jobs." That's how it happened right? And just to be clear on something else: SOE's offices are in California, LucasArts' are in Austin, focus groups for the NGE were held where now? Ah, any lights come on for anyone?
lol. That exactly it! You make a good point as well....the ones defending LA only end up making the company look like one of the worst run companies in the US.
SOE's SWG Team works out of Austin. That is where the brawler correspondent was flown to who orginally broke the NGE on the forums. Skywalker Ranch is the name of the well-disguised workplace of film director and producer George Lucas in secluded but open country near Nicasio, California.
I wouldn't use kjfett for supporting evidence.
I dont make LA sound at all incompentent. They dont code the game. They only see what SOE shows them until its live. They may have been told something completely false. Shown something non-existant by SOE. Ever seen the capital ship demo shown to fans at the fanfest? Watch an SOE produced commerical of the game with Vader fighting out in the woods?
Alright, everyone just to keep you all honest. This person posted this thread off rumor. You are all saying George Lucas couldn't be involved to the degree stated and that its comical right?
Consider this. President of SOE John Smedley posts on swg forums again. Julio Torres is posting. Two people of the level of george lucas. You realize the magnitude of the President of SONY ONLINE ENTERTAINMENT posting in the forums on the NGE issues? That is not some small thing. They have some 20 different games listed on there sight that he is responsible for. When a companies president posts you know something is happening. When the executive LA producer cancels interviews at the last minute because of questions about the title he is producing you know something is not right.
To tell me that these folks could be visible involved and that george lucas isn't is kind of unfair. If George Lucas is not happy he told his lawyers pull the license as soon as possible. At which point we will know for certain.
I will leave you with this. If this is not proof enough I pwn joo.
just wanted to say how much I enjoy watching the movies and that I always been a huge fan of Star Wars even since I saw my first Star Wars movie back in the 1980s. Now to the tough things, I also play Star Wars Galaxies and Ive been enjoying that, being a part of the universe you created for over 2 years, but the 15th of November SOE and LucasArts decided they wanted to chase everybody away from that game.
They made a new update to the game and took it away from everything that made it feel like Star Wars. Julio Torres and the developers at SOE dont listen to anything we try to say. They are right and we are wrong, yet over 40% have canceled accounts already and more are doing so every day. And the only thing we ever wanted was to be a part of what you created.
To show something of what I mean, Ill give you a link to a movie made by some nice people. After 8 minutes, the movie gets real good. A very awesome Jedi fight. I hope you can shake Julio Torres and the developers at SOE up a bit. Maybe make them start to listen to the community and maybe save the Star Wars name in the MMO game world. And the movie link: Link omitted by SS. Forever Star Wars fan, Jan Jørgensen.
George Lucas: This unnerves me. It seems more and more people are sending in comments very critical of the Star Wars Galaxies game. Ive had talks with the people who run the game and they have told me they are in the process of integrating many fan ideas into the game. If this doesnt happen within the next few months, then let me know. The reason Episode 1 , 2 and 3 were the most heralded films of their era is because of the tremendous fan ideas I was able to integrate into the scripts. The fans are the true source of my power. SuperShadow is the best thing to ever happen to Star Wars. We are so lucky to have SS.
Well, I am sad to say that I have spent over $ 1,000 U.S. dollars on SWG, including subscription and expansions since I started in September of 2004. I ran two Jedi accounts, and two crafters, for a total characters on Goraths server. I am canceling my accounts as of December 2005.
The game designers have ruined this game for the adult players of this game with the latest upgrade. It is a shame that my Guild which is comprised of 60 members varying in ages from 18 up to 38 is quitting playing as of December as well. Instead of using games like Battlefront to cater to the younger crowd, they have destroyed everything about which made this game so enjoyable for us.
I cant justify paying all this money to have the game changed without my input. I tolerated and sat thru the first upgrade and actually enjoyed it, but after playing the new one, I am totally disinterested. I hope that SOE makes the money out of the younger crowd that they are going to lose out of the older.
Good luck, George. Saddened. Jedeoth Derhadane Jedi Kelpin Derhadane Jedi Tedeoth Derhadane Master BH Master Rifleman Deeklas Derhadane Master Dancer Master Musician Nikosa Master Bioengineer /Tailor Peeso Master Chef / Shipwright aka Julian R. Criner, Jr. SSGT USMC Retired.
George Lucas: It does bother me that fans write in saying they are unhappy with Star Wars Galaxies. Sony has spent millions of dollars researching the best way to improve the game. SuperShadow has personally submitted hundreds of fan ideas to be integrated into the game. Perhaps, these ideas are from the young fans and might be the kind of improvements you dont approve of. Star Wars is intended for children. So perhaps Sony wants to tap the largest segment of the video-game-playing public, which happens to be young people under the age of eighteen.
Of course I have to give you all a link to this interview. I trust that when you read this wepps you will of course bring it to the swg forums since my account expired I cannot give them this information.
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Comments
Because you read some college prep courses career counselors guide on potential jobs when you grow up doesn't mean you at all understand a business relationship. I find Julio Torres to be nothing more then rubberstamp for SOE to do whatever it likes so long as it pays its licensing fees on time. They dont care about cannon (Blacksun, Mandalorian remanents, jedi, Han, Chewie, Luke, Obi-wan, Wookies, Trans). Most of the game fundamentally violates a lot of cannon. Some explain how LA heavy input who in the past so carefully put cannon above story
Um when did ANYONE put cannon before story in SWG? From release there have been huge holes in it. Hell George Lucas himself cares less about cannon than the fans. Otherwise explain Leia saying "I remember her a little, she died when I was very young. She was beautiful, but very sad." talking about her mother who died when she was 30 seconds old.
Ah but you say the EU explains all that. But you don't really want to go there do you? Because if you go to the EU, then that opens a whole slew of examples where SWG didn't follow cannon at release. So no SWG (or Geroge Lucas) has ever clung as tightly to cannon as the fans.
would suddenly do a 360 if they had this total overwhelming control you state they have?
First I need to make sure you do realize Julio Tores does work for LucasArts right? now let me post a quote from an intview from him:
OGaming: Who maintains series continuity? And with the new updates in place, are you allowed to take any liberties with existing characters and storylines? If so, to what degree?
JT: That is actually the beauty of Galaxies. Though we dont tend to take liberties when it comes to story as the Star Wars fiction and canon is very protected, we do at times allow for things that appeal to gamers that would otherwise not be permitted as they doesnt fit with the existing fiction and canon. An example of this is that we allow multiple Jedi to exist in the game even though it is set at a time when there are very few Jedi left in the universe. We strive to deliver a fun balance of gameplay that stays consistent with the storylines.
You can read the full interview here:
http://www.ogaming.com/data/3377%7EJulioTorres.php
Here is my thoughts on the Lucas piece. When jedi where put into the game and the code allowed to be placed in it was rumored George himself allowed it. When holocrons where put in it was rumored high level la executives had to clear it (I think George). When jedi became a problem SOE developed the FRS as a way to satisfy Lucas who was rumored at the time to be quiet upset about the numeric amount of jedi in the timeline. Lucas then approved a FRS as a sort of control.
These are some of the rumors floating around the boards that refuse to see LucasArts as anything but the greatest thing since sliced bread. Do your OWN research. Figure it all out yourself, look at the facts, and you'll see that LA has been in the thick of things from the begining.
What I think happened is someone close to Lucas said there is a lot of chatter on swg right now. One of our folks at the ranch checked it out and thought you needed to see this version. I dont doubt Lucas saw the profession starting classes with horrid artwork, the lame special effects and the jedi starter class perversion of his vision and fired up the jet to the SOE camp. Lucas is known for griping special effects, sound and visuals. Have you seen the character creation screen?
If you dont think Lucas would puke over that I dont know what you think might envoke his anger. I remember specifically being told that the live event staff couldn't use core npc's in combat because of lucas and LA. Suddenly they can do the NGE?
Julio Torres is probably being summarily canned. I have absolute faith of it. I also believe soe wants tons of jedi and pulled a fast one on LA. That they know it sells copies but LA didn't want this game to be all about jedi because frankly the star wars world is supposedly about so much more then jedi. I dont think for 1 second Lucas is making a big change once he can get ahold of the situation and find a replacement for Torres.
So please explain to me why when the game was released SOE (Ralph Koster to be exact) was saying Jedi wouldn't be in the game, while an advertisement (which we all know LucasArts is in charge of advertising for the game) came out saying you could be a jedi. How does that fit into your master plan that SOE wanted Jedi not LA?
It also fits with the theory of FRS removal supposedly for exploiting the system. SOE never wanted to limit jedi so they removed it as soon as possible.
Bro I'm going to let this one go. You are REALLY not ready for the reality about LucasArts or Gerogie himself. I get the feeling if anyone were to get though the illusinons you created for yourself, your world would come crashing down.
LA and SOE are both responsible for what has happened.
No SOE is. LA grants a license. If soe so chooses they can violate the terms up and down to mars and back and LA couldn't do a thing to stop SOE. All they can do is pull the license. I am certain of this fact. Name 1 incident where SOE has stated any decision regarding the game wasn't its own?
Next up is Jod. Don't worry my world is all good. I know I will be right and have to unfortunately make you cry.
Because you read some college prep courses career counselors guide on potential jobs when you grow up doesn't mean you at all understand a business relationship. I find Julio Torres to be nothing more then rubberstamp for SOE to do whatever it likes so long as it pays its licensing fees on time. They dont care about cannon (Blacksun, Mandalorian remanents, jedi, Han, Chewie, Luke, Obi-wan, Wookies, Trans). Most of the game fundamentally violates a lot of cannon. Some explain how LA heavy input who in the past so carefully put cannon above story
Um when did ANYONE put cannon before story in SWG? From release there have been huge holes in it. Hell George Lucas himself cares less about cannon than the fans. Otherwise explain Leia saying "I remember her a little, she died when I was very young. She was beautiful, but very sad." talking about her mother who died when she was 30 seconds old.
I would have used the Firespray as a better example because Jedi are unique beings with different memories of past, present and future. They see things you wouldn't understand. Lucas is very much a wise man on cannon. He is very careful what he has allowed in other games. Jedi Academy, Rebel Assualt, Tie Fighter, X-wing, in titles with LA as the designer never have I seen such blatant disregard for cannon. 99% of people who play swg agree just forget cannon with swg. I can handle that. Don't pretend that LA hasn't been cannon centric they practically invented cannon.
Ah but you say the EU explains all that. But you don't really want to go there do you? Because if you go to the EU, then that opens a whole slew of examples where SWG didn't follow cannon at release. So no SWG (or Geroge Lucas) has ever clung as tightly to cannon as the fans.
I didn't quote the EU at all. Altough the eu is cannon. Whether you like it or not LA approved the writing. BUT THEY DIDN"T WRITE IT!
would suddenly do a 360 if they had this total overwhelming control you state they have?
First I need to make sure you do realize Julio Tores does work for LucasArts right? now let me post a quote from an intview from him:
OGaming: Who maintains series continuity? And with the new updates in place, are you allowed to take any liberties with existing characters and storylines? If so, to what degree?
JT: That is actually the beauty of Galaxies. Though we dont tend to take liberties when it comes to story as the Star Wars fiction and canon is very protected, we do at times allow for things that appeal to gamers that would otherwise not be permitted as they doesnt fit with the existing fiction and canon. An example of this is that we allow multiple Jedi to exist in the game even though it is set at a time when there are very few Jedi left in the universe. We strive to deliver a fun balance of gameplay that stays consistent with the storylines.
You can read the full interview here:
Excellent you proved LA wants to stick to canon. Notice he didn't say "We permit multiple Jedi Knights and other Sith?" Becareful when you assume Torres approved everything. I notice he says we permit and we allow alot. Not LA makes a decision for the game and makes SOE do it for us. I fully believe SOE says we want to do this and LA signs off on it. That is when they actually do it. I dont think LA knew the NGE was going the way jedi is now.
http://www.ogaming.com/data/3377%7EJulioTorres.php
Here is my thoughts on the Lucas piece. When jedi where put into the game and the code allowed to be placed in it was rumored George himself allowed it. When holocrons where put in it was rumored high level la executives had to clear it (I think George). When jedi became a problem SOE developed the FRS as a way to satisfy Lucas who was rumored at the time to be quiet upset about the numeric amount of jedi in the timeline. Lucas then approved a FRS as a sort of control.
These are some of the rumors floating around the boards that refuse to see LucasArts as anything but the greatest thing since sliced bread. Do your OWN research. Figure it all out yourself, look at the facts, and you'll see that LA has been in the thick of things from the begining.
I have yet to see anything showing LA coding or making decisions on the games direction period end of story. Check yourself. All I see is TH speaking for the SOE devs. And given Torres doesn't even work in the building where the game is actually built and maintained how does one come to any other conculsion.
What I think happened is someone close to Lucas said there is a lot of chatter on swg right now. One of our folks at the ranch checked it out and thought you needed to see this version. I dont doubt Lucas saw the profession starting classes with horrid artwork, the lame special effects and the jedi starter class perversion of his vision and fired up the jet to the SOE camp. Lucas is known for griping special effects, sound and visuals. Have you seen the character creation screen?
If you dont think Lucas would puke over that I dont know what you think might envoke his anger. I remember specifically being told that the live event staff couldn't use core npc's in combat because of lucas and LA. Suddenly they can do the NGE?
Julio Torres is probably being summarily canned. I have absolute faith of it. I also believe soe wants tons of jedi and pulled a fast one on LA. That they know it sells copies but LA didn't want this game to be all about jedi because frankly the star wars world is supposedly about so much more then jedi. I dont think for 1 second Lucas is making a big change once he can get ahold of the situation and find a replacement for Torres.
So please explain to me why when the game was released SOE (Ralph Koster to be exact) was saying Jedi wouldn't be in the game, while an advertisement (which we all know LucasArts is in charge of advertising for the game) came out saying you could be a jedi. How does that fit into your master plan that SOE wanted Jedi not LA?
Funny because that is absolute revisionist history. The games first shown profession from beta was CH. On the beta boards it talked explictly about allowing jedi players. I remember specifically the beta website and that was when I war roleplaying in yahoo groups with the GE. A group of hardcore roleplayers excited to play a star wars mmo with jedi. I also remember they said the jedi level of knight would be near impossible to achive but would be well worth it if anyone got there. -SOE Board.
It also fits with the theory of FRS removal supposedly for exploiting the system. SOE never wanted to limit jedi so they removed it as soon as possible.
Bro I'm going to let this one go. You are REALLY not ready for the reality about LucasArts or Gerogie himself. I get the feeling if anyone were to get though the illusinons you created for yourself, your world would come crashing down.
The last comment. I am not the one who needs to check there facts. On at least 2 occasions I have facts that contridict you. If I was a casual reader that alone would make me question you.
LA and SOE are both responsible for what has happened.
No SOE is. LA grants a license. If soe so chooses they can violate the terms up and down to mars and back and LA couldn't do a thing to stop SOE. All they can do is pull the license. I am certain of this fact. Name 1 incident where SOE has stated any decision regarding the game wasn't its own?
Next up is Jod. Don't worry my world is all good. I know I will be right and have to unfortunately make you cry.
Such confidence....it only leads to you falling harder and making a bigger fool of yourself. I honestly dont care if you believe me or not. You can live in your own little world.
Will you people STOP with the rainbow coalition.. you're making my head ache.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
here is some evidence of community relations, dev, producer interaction. I am positive SOE does all the work and all the ideas and only needs la to make sure it doesnt violate terms of contract.
Dude, I spent all day lobbying hard for player ideas.
The thing is that this is all about real game development for an MMO and a large team and its a lot more in depth than it appears.
On the vendor/dropped skill issue, Im speaking with DocSavag about that and its a correspondent issue.
I think Ill be able to get it so that basic vendors have 150 and merchants can earn more slots as they earn skill boxes (which I think is a great idea) and Im checking into the correspondent issue. It probably wont be until next week though.
I have to champion this issues, write up tomorrows friday feature, get the droid invasion written up for In Dev and get the patch notes notes done. On Monday Im meeting with a producer and a developer to go over correspondent issues and find out whats what. (Some are fixed, some are in QA and some issues are going to In Concept.)
Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=dev_archive&message.id=75204#M75204
Word!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Word!
Spoilsports. I'd just necked a mug of strong coffee and set teh screen on auto-scroll. Got to love taht multicoloured vapour trail effect
Word!
Spoilsports. I'd just necked a mug of strong coffee and set teh screen on auto-scroll. Got to love taht multicoloured vapour trail effect
you almost made me spew my morning coffee on that one...
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I read that post and as has been stated, i believe it was a correspondant. George lucas probably doesnt even know what SWG is or a mmo for that matter.
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
WTF!
BRENLO IS THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY RELATIONS!
TIGSS COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER!
TH COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER! FORMERLY ASSISTANT COMMUNITY RELATIONS MANAGER UNDER Q3PO.
Is this somehow unclear. Tiggs leaving/firing was announced by BRENLO. HER BOSS. I am not certain how this is being made into Brenlo is some peon former player who is brand new and does nothing. He is the director the community relations staff.
I am through with this thread as I think I have smacked around the kids enough. I am tired of them making no sense after I hit them. Fine dont admit soe runs the show. Keep smearing LA because you think somehow they hold some magically power over swg... ohhhhh..... I think I see a Lucas Arts Blue Glowie approaching.... ohhhhh..... he is saying.... we run the game and make it work and make all the decisions.... ohhhh.....
I find this side to be nonsense. LA is a consultant nothing more. They yielded the franchise rights to SOE for this game and look what soe has done. I am willing to place myself on the line and say that LA pulls the license for this game. That would absolutely prove my point when they shut down the servers. If LA was incharge as you state LA would be able to have them run on servers it controls or leases.
In one instance I mistyped, I have editited in the word I left out. All of this happened well before beta. In the second instance I was being sarcastic when I said 2 weeks.
As far as the Leia thing, there are hundereds of examples I could have brought up that shows the movies contridicting themselves, but what you're telling me is that at 30 seconds old, Leia is a jedi, but Luke, who is "The One", isn't. You see we call that the fans rationalization, proving that the fans care more about cannon than George.
And Ralph Koster is now EVERYBODY's boss, how much input do you think he has in SWG specifically? You are deluded. You want to ignore the fact taht LucasArts has been making crappy games for years, has made so many poor descions in the past, and even though all their other stupid decisions are happeneing in SWG, you don't want to see the light.
As I've said Julio Torres is the producer. he's either directly involved like his job titles says he should be, in which case it's his (and by default LucasArts') fault, or he isn't doing his job which means it's his (and by default LucasArts') fault.
Hey! Sam and Max and Fullthrottle rocked...
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Jedi Knight.
Battlefront.
Knights of the Old Republic.
I'd say those LA games did pretty well for themselves. Plus Empires at War looks to be awesome as well. Can't wait for that one.
NGE Refugee.
And who does Ralph Koster and John Smedley work for?
I never said Lucas Arts wasn't blameless. I am simply stating that LA is not controlling the game, SOE controls it, codes it and can do things LA doesn't necessary agree with or know about. Hence the entire point of this thread and the fact that it IS probably true that George himself had approved jedi as long as frs was part of the game. I do not doubt this to be the case. A decision to allow jedi as npcs or players in this timeframe almost certainly involves high level la executives if not george himself.
My assumption is Julio Torres felt SOE snow balled him on the NGE and what it actually contained and told his bosses about it, which brought the man himself out. Or torres approved it not realizing what was in it. George found out about it and is mad and paid SOE a visit.
Something doesn't add up with your story of LA is oh so happy with the direction of swg. If that was the case then wouldn't they be the ones raving about it. torres cancelled that interview. Why? If LA is behind swg and thus the NGE they would be the ones supporting it fully. I dont really see that. I see Smedley is though. Interview from Nov. 11th. I am not saying LA didn't sign off on the NGE. I am not saying they where not consulted on the NGE. I think it was not close to what was probably discussed and agreed to and I think that is why all the commotion from the devs and community relations staff. All of this reeks of LA deemed soe but certain things inplace like the frs. Dont be shocked to see it in patch notes.
So let me get this straight. You actually think George Lucas himself got upset over a video game and went and talked to SOE himself about it? Your arguement had alittle merit with me til you threw that in, however I can't even take you serious now.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
fyi about the Leia's mother bit... that would be her adopted parent.
What a foolish bit of writing.
1. Brenlo posted about being a player in SWG... A BH specifically...just yesterday
2. He is the boss. He canned Tiggs and is filling in for her while there is no one else to do the job. That doesn't mean he knows what is going on. I do work all day long and my boss doesn't know what files I am working on...heck...she isn't even in the same county as me. If I am sick or quit....she has to then get envolved...and then my customers get to see her up front. Same holds true for Brenlo. He is the global director as in over EQ and EQ2, along with all the other MMOs they run. SWG was Tiggs acocunt. He has 10 other employees just like her. With her out of the picture and the rest of his employees busy on real games...he has to drop to her level to fill in while doing his own job as well (he confirmed that yesterday in a post as well). It in no way means he is in the know before (which he openly admitted to)...because it was her job..not his.
As for the LA and SOE blame game....one day you will see the big picture. Those of us with connections...whether you believe us or not...do know what is going on. LA has been to envolved in some aspects and not enough in others. They are certainly not without blame for this problem. LA is after money just like the next guy. That is all Star Wars is to them as well. It is not the same for them as it is for us.
So let me get this straight. You actually think George Lucas himself got upset over a video game and went and talked to SOE himself about it? Your arguement had alittle merit with me til you threw that in, however I can't even take you serious now.
Gotta agree with Fadeus on this one. While I do beleive that LA and SOE are both equally responsible for the mess brought about by the NGE, I do not believe that Lucas walked into a meeting with SOE because Torres got blind sided by the NGE....nor do I believe that Lucas had so much envovlement to actually be in a meeting about jedi. I do know he keeps tabs on things, but get real....Lucase wasn't born on a farm yesterday.
Oh come on sure he did. He was on the set of the prequals and said, "Whoa, hold on guys. SOE is screwing up Jedi in one of my hundreds of video games. Stop everything while I go meet with them. Sure I started a whole company to take care of things like this, but I always like to make sure I pay people that don't do their jobs."
That's how it happened right?
EDIT: I was wrong, SOE does have an office in Austin not LA
lol. That exactly it! You make a good point as well....the ones defending LA only end up making the company look like one of the worst run companies in the US.
lol. That exactly it! You make a good point as well....the ones defending LA only end up making the company look like one of the worst run companies in the US.
SOE's SWG Team works out of Austin. That is where the brawler correspondent was flown to who orginally broke the NGE on the forums. Skywalker Ranch is the name of the well-disguised workplace of film director and producer George Lucas in secluded but open country near Nicasio, California.
I wouldn't use kjfett for supporting evidence.
I dont make LA sound at all incompentent. They dont code the game. They only see what SOE shows them until its live. They may have been told something completely false. Shown something non-existant by SOE. Ever seen the capital ship demo shown to fans at the fanfest? Watch an SOE produced commerical of the game with Vader fighting out in the woods?
Alright, everyone just to keep you all honest. This person posted this thread off rumor. You are all saying George Lucas couldn't be involved to the degree stated and that its comical right?
Consider this. President of SOE John Smedley posts on swg forums again. Julio Torres is posting. Two people of the level of george lucas. You realize the magnitude of the President of SONY ONLINE ENTERTAINMENT posting in the forums on the NGE issues? That is not some small thing. They have some 20 different games listed on there sight that he is responsible for. When a companies president posts you know something is happening. When the executive LA producer cancels interviews at the last minute because of questions about the title he is producing you know something is not right.
To tell me that these folks could be visible involved and that george lucas isn't is kind of unfair. If George Lucas is not happy he told his lawyers pull the license as soon as possible. At which point we will know for certain.
I will leave you with this. If this is not proof enough I pwn joo.
just wanted to say how much I enjoy watching the movies and that I always been a huge fan of Star Wars even since I saw my first Star Wars movie back in the 1980s. Now to the tough things, I also play Star Wars Galaxies and Ive been enjoying that, being a part of the universe you created for over 2 years, but the 15th of November SOE and LucasArts decided they wanted to chase everybody away from that game.
They made a new update to the game and took it away from everything that made it feel like Star Wars. Julio Torres and the developers at SOE dont listen to anything we try to say. They are right and we are wrong, yet over 40% have canceled accounts already and more are doing so every day. And the only thing we ever wanted was to be a part of what you created.
To show something of what I mean, Ill give you a link to a movie made by some nice people. After 8 minutes, the movie gets real good. A very awesome Jedi fight. I hope you can shake Julio Torres and the developers at SOE up a bit. Maybe make them start to listen to the community and maybe save the Star Wars name in the MMO game world. And the movie link: Link omitted by SS. Forever Star Wars fan, Jan Jørgensen.
George Lucas: This unnerves me. It seems more and more people are sending in comments very critical of the Star Wars Galaxies game. Ive had talks with the people who run the game and they have told me they are in the process of integrating many fan ideas into the game. If this doesnt happen within the next few months, then let me know. The reason Episode 1 , 2 and 3 were the most heralded films of their era is because of the tremendous fan ideas I was able to integrate into the scripts. The fans are the true source of my power. SuperShadow is the best thing to ever happen to Star Wars. We are so lucky to have SS.
Well, I am sad to say that I have spent over $ 1,000 U.S. dollars on SWG, including subscription and expansions since I started in September of 2004. I ran two Jedi accounts, and two crafters, for a total characters on Goraths server. I am canceling my accounts as of December 2005.
The game designers have ruined this game for the adult players of this game with the latest upgrade. It is a shame that my Guild which is comprised of 60 members varying in ages from 18 up to 38 is quitting playing as of December as well. Instead of using games like Battlefront to cater to the younger crowd, they have destroyed everything about which made this game so enjoyable for us.
I cant justify paying all this money to have the game changed without my input. I tolerated and sat thru the first upgrade and actually enjoyed it, but after playing the new one, I am totally disinterested. I hope that SOE makes the money out of the younger crowd that they are going to lose out of the older.
Good luck, George. Saddened. Jedeoth Derhadane Jedi Kelpin Derhadane Jedi Tedeoth Derhadane Master BH Master Rifleman Deeklas Derhadane Master Dancer Master Musician Nikosa Master Bioengineer /Tailor Peeso Master Chef / Shipwright aka Julian R. Criner, Jr. SSGT USMC Retired.
George Lucas: It does bother me that fans write in saying they are unhappy with Star Wars Galaxies. Sony has spent millions of dollars researching the best way to improve the game. SuperShadow has personally submitted hundreds of fan ideas to be integrated into the game. Perhaps, these ideas are from the young fans and might be the kind of improvements you dont approve of. Star Wars is intended for children. So perhaps Sony wants to tap the largest segment of the video-game-playing public, which happens to be young people under the age of eighteen.
Of course I have to give you all a link to this interview. I trust that when you read this wepps you will of course bring it to the swg forums since my account expired I cannot give them this information.
Do what you will with it.
http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/lucas/
As a famous tennis player would say..."You can't be serious!!!".
SuperShadow as a reliable source? His website is one big ego fest and a laughing stock of most of the online Star Wars fanbase.
I am so done with this discussion, have fun.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World