Have to agree, although there have been packed servers since 2004. I checked server loads on the character creation screen only a few days ago. Two servers were on Medium (one being Bria, my server). The rest varied between light and very light. Leading up to the NGE announcement Bria was on extremely heavy, as was around 10% of the servers. Around 50% of the rest were on medium.
The scary thing over the NGE is how quickly population dropped. The day it was launched every server was at least on heavy, most on extemely heavy. Within 12 hours they dropped to medium and kept on going.
Yah, you just keep telling yourself that. There are plenty of people on the server I play on and I would go as far as to say thay Bestine and Mos Eisley were "packed" tonight. Sorry to burst your bubble. I'm not here to advocate for the game but I know what I see! S
Well Sharky, the lost potential is enough to warrant shutting the servers down... Even if the servers were on medium, a MMO set in the SW universe should have all of them at 'heavy load' and should have as many servers and subscriptions as WoW does... And at this point, SWG doesn't even have 1/10 of either, which is pathetic...
HAH!!! So Elnator and Erillion, still think I look "stupid" when I delcared that SWG dies within one year back in August? I have this nasty little habit of being right all the time... I think even AA chastized me as being an idiot about making this prediction... With all the bad publicity, the best 'stop gap' scenario is to shut the servers down to at least qualm the horrible press this game is getting, namely the bad name SW is getting as a whole in the online community... Star Trek online is in the horizons, and SWG2 needs to happen quickly to cash in on the Sci-Fi MMO'ers cuz STO will take a majority of them...
Still waiting on Elnator or Erillion to own up here...
Greetings,
hard to find your post under all the current white noise on the boards. Yes, I think your post about SWG not lasting a year was a wild GUESS not based on fact back then. One of your blind shots hit near the target through sheer volume of fire, but not for the reasons you mentioned.
No one heard about the NGE at this time. Neither you nor anyone. We heard about a starter package and maybe Jedi as starter profession and that was that.
I dont rule out NOW that SWG is folding before August. I give it about 20 % chance. Because of the NGE and the incredible exodus of players, most of which will NOT come back this time. Because this now is NOT about the game anymore, but about the treatment of customers.
At the moment I am not playing a lot of SWG (waiting for VERY MUCH NEEDED ground game hotfixes) and if I do I concentrate on Jump to Lightspeed (works mostly and is fun) and on desaster management (saving whats left of guild (70 % losses) and city).
So ... with much less online time in SWG comes much less postings here on the board as I try to know what I am talking about. Also I enjoyed helping new players with their first steps in SWG ... and at the moment I would NOT encourage any new players to start with NGE .. they would regret it.
We do agree that NGE was an incredible stupid move by SOE/LA. But you are not right with SWG not lasting a year ... and if by blind chance your guess becomes truth, its not related to any insight of yours but only related to luck and sheer management stupidity like this genre has not seen before.
Originally posted by grapevine Have to agree, although there have been packed servers since 2004. I checked server loads on the character creation screen only a few days ago. Two servers were on Medium (one being Bria, my server). The rest varied between light and very light. Leading up to the NGE announcement Bria was on extremely heavy, as was around 10% of the servers. Around 50% of the rest were on medium. The scary thing over the NGE is how quickly population dropped. The day it was launched every server was at least on heavy, most on extemely heavy. Within 12 hours they dropped to medium and kept on going.
Obviously bro! Everyone logged in (myself included through a friends char since I had quit after the first CU) to see what all the buzz was about and test the changes for themselves. The they all felt the stink and left.
Quite incredible these apologetic, miopic, SOE/LA/SWG Fanbois who still continue to say that the servers are "packed". Do they really call a server at medium population packed?!
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
HAH!!! So Elnator and Erillion, still think I look "stupid" when I delcared that SWG dies within one year back in August? I have this nasty little habit of being right all the time... I think even AA chastized me as being an idiot about making this prediction... With all the bad publicity, the best 'stop gap' scenario is to shut the servers down to at least qualm the horrible press this game is getting, namely the bad name SW is getting as a whole in the online community... Star Trek online is in the horizons, and SWG2 needs to happen quickly to cash in on the Sci-Fi MMO'ers cuz STO will take a majority of them...
Still waiting on Elnator or Erillion to own up here...
Greetings,
hard to find your post under all the current white noise on the boards. Yes, I think your post about SWG not lasting a year was a wild GUESS not based on fact back then. One of your blind shots hit near the target through sheer volume of fire, but not for the reasons you mentioned.
No one heard about the NGE at this time. Neither you nor anyone. We heard about a starter package and maybe Jedi as starter profession and that was that.
I dont rule out NOW that SWG is folding before August. I give it about 20 % chance. Because of the NGE and the incredible exodus of players, most of which will NOT come back this time. Because this now is NOT about the game anymore, but about the treatment of customers.
At the moment I am not playing a lot of SWG (waiting for VERY MUCH NEEDED ground game hotfixes) and if I do I concentrate on Jump to Lightspeed (works mostly and is fun) and on desaster management (saving whats left of guild (70 % losses) and city).
So ... with much less online time in SWG comes much less postings here on the board as I try to know what I am talking about. Also I enjoyed helping new players with their first steps in SWG ... and at the moment I would NOT encourage any new players to start with NGE .. they would regret it.
We do agree that NGE was an incredible stupid move by SOE/LA. But you are not right with SWG not lasting a year ... and if by blind chance your guess becomes truth, its not related to any insight of yours but only related to luck and sheer management stupidity like this genre has not seen before.
Have fun
Erillion
Hello Erillion,
While my purpose is not to defend Dis, and I hardly endorse his style of posting. I see his point. I too cried foul when the first CU hit. The CU screwed up some of us, but not a big majority and that was the problem. A lot of people had the mentality of "it's not a problem if it doesn't affect me!" and guess what, now it's affected them. And this is why a lot of people (myself included) have the luxury of saying I told you so.
I too think SWG it's on it's death-bed. Even if they get half of the subscriptions they lost back, there's just no excuse for having 200k-300k subs at best. This is Star Wars for crying out loud! Having this license is practically permission to print out your own money.
Even the most apologetic of Fanbois are asking for server merge, and the devs have not ruled out the possibility (not that their word is of any value anyway). Server mergers are a good indicator if impending death. And at this point, server mergers look all but inevitable.
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Originally posted by Wepps Goods news... SOE is actually discussing brining back the pre nge.The impact SWG has had, has been intense and they are panicing yet again.Bad news... they are paying little to no attention to these fan forums... they are taking their cue, only from the subscriber amounts. So unfortunately, if everyone wants pre nge back, they need to click the cancel subscription. it is a scary option I know, but most people know, that if you cancel , you character remain intact in case you resubscribe.More bad news... The game may be closed. Come next february or march, they may be closing SWG. The official word came through that SWG has new goals, and if it doesnt reach that goal, either thru NGE or PRE NGE roll back... Good bye SWG.Some decent news... the devs really are working on alot of revamps to this game. And honestly , when they complete phase 6 of the NGE update (if the game lasts that long... the game will be completely different from what it is now. As many know, it will be collision detected.There will be missions for every level.The professions are being givens choices, like trader has now. IE - jedi can do level 1-70, and then choose whether to go light or dark.The combat engine is being improved. And they are working on alot of ways to change the views for battle, including having your character non npc's become partially transparent will you are engaged in battle.Player cities will be nerfed, even more than they are now. The limits as to how much land you can have based on city members, is going to decrease alot.
Nothing personal Wepps but the person that fed you that really sounds like they are trying to get a sympathy draw now. Poor dev's, they had all these great things planned . I do not beleive their will be a rollback, as I have said in the past it would be a nightmare on so many levels if they did and they know it.
As for the stuff they have planned, too little too late. It should have been tested and COMPLETED BEFORE shoving the NGE on us, not after the fact and not as a carrot. I highly doubt they would turn off the servers as long as they can continue to draw profit from it and regardless of the cancelations, they can finish getting in the NGE and let it run on cruise control and live off new players and ones that stayed and make plenty of profit still. It would be in neither SOE or LEC's best interests to turn it off.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Dis_Ordur Originally posted by Wepps More bad news... The game may be closed. Come next february or march, they may be closing SWG. The official word came through that SWG has new goals, and if it doesnt reach that goal, either thru NGE or PRE NGE roll back... Good bye SWG. HAH!!! So Elnator and Erillion, still think I look "stupid" when I delcared that SWG dies within one year back in August? I have this nasty little habit of being right all the time... I think even AA chastized me as being an idiot about making this prediction... With all the bad publicity, the best 'stop gap' scenario is to shut the servers down to at least qualm the horrible press this game is getting, namely the bad name SW is getting as a whole in the online community... Star Trek online is in the horizons, and SWG2 needs to happen quickly to cash in on the Sci-Fi MMO'ers cuz STO will take a majority of them... As Ace Ventura once said: "Man I'm tired of being right!!!!!" Squidi is no longer around either, coincidentally he left right after I posted that he was a SOE plant... Coincidence? I think not...
Your right about a rumor?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Wepps More bad news... The game may be closed. Come next february or march, they may be closing SWG. The official word came through that SWG has new goals, and if it doesnt reach that goal, either thru NGE or PRE NGE roll back... Good bye SWG.
HAH!!! So Elnator and Erillion, still think I look "stupid" when I delcared that SWG dies within one year back in August? I have this nasty little habit of being right all the time... I think even AA chastized me as being an idiot about making this prediction... With all the bad publicity, the best 'stop gap' scenario is to shut the servers down to at least qualm the horrible press this game is getting, namely the bad name SW is getting as a whole in the online community... Star Trek online is in the horizons, and SWG2 needs to happen quickly to cash in on the Sci-Fi MMO'ers cuz STO will take a majority of them... As Ace Ventura once said: "Man I'm tired of being right!!!!!" Squidi is no longer around either, coincidentally he left right after I posted that he was a SOE plant... Coincidence? I think not...
Your right about a rumor?
No... I'll admit, I was being a little cocky... Just trying to spice up the boards a little bit by playing the bad guy... I said back in August that SWG dies within the year... The NGE hadn't hit, but I had (still have) a real strong argument of why it will die, two words: Lost Potential... The NGE simply speeded up the process... I was sharply criticisized for making this observation, something to the effect of "People declared this about EQ, they looked stupid just as you do predicting this about SWG"... Now that it is becoming not necesarrily a reality, but a highly likely scenario, just looking for a little reckoning of what I said in the past... If anything, I should have guessed the demise of SWG by the end of the first fiscal quarter of '06, the devs really trumped my guess due to their idiocy and sloppy handling of the NGE...
Originally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by Wepps Goods news... SOE is actually discussing brining back the pre nge.The impact SWG has had, has been intense and they are panicing yet again.Bad news... they are paying little to no attention to these fan forums... they are taking their cue, only from the subscriber amounts. So unfortunately, if everyone wants pre nge back, they need to click the cancel subscription. it is a scary option I know, but most people know, that if you cancel , you character remain intact in case you resubscribe.More bad news... The game may be closed. Come next february or march, they may be closing SWG. The official word came through that SWG has new goals, and if it doesnt reach that goal, either thru NGE or PRE NGE roll back... Good bye SWG.Some decent news... the devs really are working on alot of revamps to this game. And honestly , when they complete phase 6 of the NGE update (if the game lasts that long... the game will be completely different from what it is now. As many know, it will be collision detected.There will be missions for every level.The professions are being givens choices, like trader has now. IE - jedi can do level 1-70, and then choose whether to go light or dark.The combat engine is being improved. And they are working on alot of ways to change the views for battle, including having your character non npc's become partially transparent will you are engaged in battle.Player cities will be nerfed, even more than they are now. The limits as to how much land you can have based on city members, is going to decrease alot.
Nothing personal Wepps but the person that fed you that really sounds like they are trying to get a sympathy draw now. Poor dev's, they had all these great things planned . I do not beleive their will be a rollback, as I have said in the past it would be a nightmare on so many levels if they did and they know it.
As for the stuff they have planned, too little too late. It should have been tested and COMPLETED BEFORE shoving the NGE on us, not after the fact and not as a carrot. I highly doubt they would turn off the servers as long as they can continue to draw profit from it and regardless of the cancelations, they can finish getting in the NGE and let it run on cruise control and live off new players and ones that stayed and make plenty of profit still. It would be in neither SOE or LEC's best interests to turn it off.
I don't care personally, just passing it along.
It'll happen and you'll eat your words.
It won't happen and I lose nothing
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by Dis_Ordur Originally posted by Fadeus Your right about a rumor? No... I'll admit, I was being a little cocky... Just trying to spice up the boards a little bit by playing the bad guy... I said back in August that SWG dies within the year... The NGE hadn't hit, but I had (still have) a real strong argument of why it will die, two words: Lost Potential... The NGE simply speeded up the process... I was sharply criticisized for making this observation, something to the effect of "People declared this about EQ, they looked stupid just as you do predicting this about SWG"... Now that it is becoming not necesarrily a reality, but a highly likely scenario, just looking for a little reckoning of what I said in the past... If anything, I should have guessed the demise of SWG by the end of the first fiscal quarter of '06, the devs really trumped my guess due to their idiocy and sloppy handling of the NGE...
Spicing up the boards? I don't recall discussion forums needing "spicing up" ever, but ok. As for your arguement I will continue to tell you what I always have, you have no arguement. If you think it would have been in either companies best interest to close a paid for game you really have no concept of business.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Spicing up the boards? I don't recall discussion forums needing "spicing up" ever, but ok. As for your arguement I will continue to tell you what I always have, you have no arguement. If you think it would have been in either companies best interest to close a paid for game you really have no concept of business.
With the attitude your showing, looks like you could use a little spice in your life... "No concept of business"? I can safely assure you I know more about business than most others on these boards, as I will be the proud owner of the company I work at in less than two years, mutliple million dollar company too... My argument back in August, which you clearly did not read or comprehend deals with the Lost Potential of SWG... WoW came along and showed the world that millions of people can be brought into the MMO style of gaming... SWG's reputation and beta state (even back in August) would never be conducive to attaining millions of players, or even retaining a low number like 500k... You know this, I know this, we all know this...
So what is a coporation to do about this? SOE took the precarious route of revamping the game almost 3 years after it was released, and failed miserably... Now they have a bug ridden game, pissed of playerbase and PR bad enough to warrant national news coverage... They should have taken the route I suggested with pulling the plug, and making SWG2... So there, hopefully this is spelled out a little more clearly for you, I do have reasons, and damn good ones at that as to why this game is dying... LA and SOE want a slice of the WoW pie, and the NGE isn't gonna cut it... They are wasting an incredible opportunity with millions of SW gamers worldwide not having a good option for a SW MMO...
Originally posted by Dis_Ordur With the attitude your showing, looks like you could use a little spice in your life... "No concept of business"? I can safely assure you I know more about business than most others on these boards, as I will be the proud owner of the company I work at in less than two years, mutliple million dollar company too... My argument back in August, which you clearly did not read or comprehend deals with the Lost Potential of SWG... WoW came along and showed the world that millions of people can be brought into the MMO style of gaming... SWG's reputation and beta state (even back in August) would never be conducive to attaining millions of players, or even retaining a low number like 500k... You know this, I know this, we all know this... So what is a coporation to do about this? SOE took the precarious route of revamping the game almost 3 years after it was released, and failed miserably... Now they have a bug ridden game, pissed of playerbase and PR bad enough to warrant national news coverage... They should have taken the route I suggested with pulling the plug, and making SWG2... So there, hopefully this is spelled out a little more clearly for you, I do have reasons, and damn good ones at that as to why this game is dying... LA and SOE want a slice of the WoW pie, and the NGE isn't gonna cut it... They are wasting an incredible opportunity with millions of SW gamers worldwide not having a good option for a SW MMO...
National news coverage? I wouldn't call the exposure all this has gotten exactly main headlines. And quite frankly most of the world isn't just all in tune with a video game and worried about it in their daily lives.
I have no idea what they will do but I know what they should do and probably will. Finish the NGE, get it semi smooth, run an advertising campaign and keep it stocked on shelves and let it idle on cruise control for the next several years and continue to bring in profit while maintaining the Star Wars name attached to SOE and being able to offer a Star Wars themed game. Companies don't pull the plug on a successful MMO because it never made it's potential.
Potential is irrelevant, they have a product and the product IS making money. Get off this potential BS and accept the fact that the suits make the last call on it and as long as its PROFITTABLE it would be far more in their best interests to keep it up, NOT take it down.
Business man are ya? Well then please start showing some business sense because right now you aren't showing any.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Wepps I don't care personally, just passing it along.It'll happen and you'll eat your words.It won't happen and I lose nothing
I know and I wasn't trying to be negative at you. I just don't really find it believable.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Dis_Ordur Originally posted by Wepps More bad news... The game may be closed. Come next february or march, they may be closing SWG. The official word came through that SWG has new goals, and if it doesnt reach that goal, either thru NGE or PRE NGE roll back... Good bye SWG. HAH!!! So Elnator and Erillion, still think I look "stupid" when I delcared that SWG dies within one year back in August? I have this nasty little habit of being right all the time... I think even AA chastized me as being an idiot about making this prediction... With all the bad publicity, the best 'stop gap' scenario is to shut the servers down to at least qualm the horrible press this game is getting, namely the bad name SW is getting as a whole in the online community... Star Trek online is in the horizons, and SWG2 needs to happen quickly to cash in on the Sci-Fi MMO'ers cuz STO will take a majority of them... As Ace Ventura once said: "Man I'm tired of being right!!!!!" Squidi is no longer around either, coincidentally he left right after I posted that he was a SOE plant... Coincidence? I think not...
If we'd known about NGE back then we'd have already been gone. You predicted that the CU would kill SWG. If they'd left the CU and not done NGE SWG would be growing right now. Up till the stealth XP nerf that we caught them red-handed in the player base was in a rapid and steady growth stage. And people were NOT cancelling. As a matter of fact, most people who initially cancelled when the CU hit had come back.
After the initial uproar about the stealth nerf SOE wisely backed it out and no real damage was done other than to those for whom it was the 'final straw' (myself included in that small crowd). If NGE hadn't been implemented the release of ToOW right before Thanksgiving would have been pure genius. If they'd left CU alone and worked on bug fixes, balancing and adding content instead of utterly destroying the game by Christmas SWG would probably have broken the 400k player mark.
NGE has the potential to kill SWG or revamp it into a whole new game. Just depends on whether mommy and daddy buy it for their kids. I suspect it'll kill it because LA and SOE won't have the patience to ride the nighmare out. If they DO have the patience for it AND if they can get CL30+ content in fast enough then SWG will be a new game entirely and lots of people will play it. I suspect, however, that it won't be over 100k players because, frankly, the FPS genre has NOT done well in the MMORPG format.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
National news coverage? I wouldn't call the exposure all this has gotten exactly main headlines. And quite frankly most of the world isn't just all in tune with a video game and worried about it in their daily lives. I have no idea what they will do but I know what they should do and probably will. Finish the NGE, get it semi smooth, run an advertising campaign and keep it stocked on shelves and let it idle on cruise control for the next several years and continue to bring in profit while maintaining the Star Wars name attached to SOE and being able to offer a Star Wars themed game. Companies don't pull the plug on a successful MMO because it never made it's potential. Potential is irrelevant, they have a product and the product IS making money. Get off this potential BS and accept the fact that the suits make the last call on it and as long as its PROFITTABLE it would be far more in their best interests to keep it up, NOT take it down. Business man are ya? Well then please start showing some business sense because right now you aren't showing any.
Not buying it chief... First off, the 'potential' argument is not BS... This is the reason for the NGE, to try and bring in more of the WoW gamers, Julio and Smed both said this... Like it or not, but we are having a very logical business debate here, probably mimicing what is going on at SOE right now too... My argument is that is is in their best interest to shut it down, and go back to the drawing board... SWG is limping along pretty horribly right now, expectations back at launch were for over 1 millions subs, obviously they didn't even come close... I would also argue that SOE is losing money now with SWG... Refunds for ToOW, refunds for paid subscriptions for disabled gamers no longer able to play, TV ads (that probably will not work) and the costs of operation, which Smed said is at least 70 people... I would bet that they are in the red now, and in fact losing money...
Originally posted by Dis_Ordur Not buying it chief... First off, the 'potential' argument is not BS... This is the reason for the NGE, to try and bring in more of the WoW gamers, Julio and Smed both said this... Like it or not, but we are having a very logical business debate here, probably mimicing what is going on at SOE right now too... My argument is that is is in their best interest to shut it down, and go back to the drawing board... SWG is limping along pretty horribly right now, expectations back at launch were for over 1 millions subs, obviously they didn't even come close... I would also argue that SOE is losing money now with SWG... Refunds for ToOW, refunds for paid subscriptions for disabled gamers no longer able to play, TV ads (that probably will not work) and the costs of operation, which Smed said is at least 70 people... I would bet that they are in the red now, and in fact losing money...
your missing my point, potential is GONE. So now it is irrelevant, HOWEVER they can still put the game on idle once they implement the work they are alread most of the way through and sit and collect profits. SOE is not losing money now with SWG, that is a completely rediculous statement. And if you really think the ToOW refunds are going to amount to anything more then a trivial amount then your mistaken. Most people are not going to go through the steps to mail it in snail mail with all the proper information and then wait for the money to be refunded, they may intend too but it will never happen.
So PLEASE explain to me how it is good business to close down a game that probably still has ATLEAST 100k customers that like the game and most of that money is profit once they finish cutting back the dev team? They then begin what EA is considered as being an MMO killer once something isn't successful, they lose the ability to say they have developed a Star Wars themed game, they lose all potential new customers right when that silly Star Wars TV show may be coming and alot of other Star Wars hype is still going around and nothing has been slated they actually GET SWG 2 yet to start over on any second drawing board. So go ahead and explain to me how closing it down would be a wise business move, I am dieing to hear this.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
your missing my point, potential is GONE. So now it is irrelevant, HOWEVER they can still put the game on idle once they implement the work they are alread most of the way through and sit and collect profits. SOE is not losing money now with SWG, that is a completely rediculous statement. And if you really think the ToOW refunds are going to amount to anything more then a trivial amount then your mistaken. Most people are not going to go through the steps to mail it in snail mail with all the proper information and then wait for the money to be refunded, they may intend too but it will never happen. So PLEASE explain to me how it is good business to close down a game that probably still has ATLEAST 100k customers that like the game and most of that money is profit once they finish cutting back the dev team? They then begin what EA is considered as being an MMO killer once something isn't successful, they lose the ability to say they have developed a Star Wars themed game, they lose all potential new customers right when that silly Star Wars TV show may be coming and alot of other Star Wars hype is still going around and nothing has been slated they actually GET SWG 2 yet to start over on any second drawing board. So go ahead and explain to me how closing it down would be a wise business move, I am dieing to hear this.
Because SWG is the official laughingstock of all MMO's of all time... Thats why... Every waking hour that passes further degrades SOE's image, LA's image and the SW image as a whole... Also, the graphics engine for SWG is considerably out-dated... Let us set aside the agrument of SOE making or losing money, for all practical purposes this doesn't affect my reasoning for shutting it down...
Theoretical Scenario here:
SOE shuts SWG down, cuts losses and chalks it up as a failure (all businesses fail in one respect or the other)... They in turn either sell the license (if they could) or start work on a SWG2... They build a new game with a new engine from the ground up... If they were smart, they would take the apologetic route when releasing SWG2, and come right out and say "We finally got it right!"... Obiovusly the game would take a couple years at the very least to develop, and by this time the commotion will have settled down from the first SWG debacle, and SOE could have a fairly clean slate...
Make no mistake about it though, they would lose a lot of money doing it this way, not only from the subs that wouldn't be coming in off of the 1st SWG, but the costs for developing the 2nd one too... If they copied WoW to it's fullest, and have something that was NGE-esque (without the bugs and tainted reputation) they could theoretically make their money back ten fold in the course of about 5 years after the game launches... They would have to bite the bullet in the meantime, but any succesful businessman or woman knows that if a product hasn't lived up to it's original expectations and hasn't sold near as well as originally thought, it is indeed time to go back to the drawing board... There are tons of examples in the field I work in showing this strategy...
Originally posted by Dis_Ordur Originally posted by Fadeusyour missing my point, potential is GONE. So now it is irrelevant, HOWEVER they can still put the game on idle once they implement the work they are alread most of the way through and sit and collect profits. SOE is not losing money now with SWG, that is a completely rediculous statement. And if you really think the ToOW refunds are going to amount to anything more then a trivial amount then your mistaken. Most people are not going to go through the steps to mail it in snail mail with all the proper information and then wait for the money to be refunded, they may intend too but it will never happen. So PLEASE explain to me how it is good business to close down a game that probably still has ATLEAST 100k customers that like the game and most of that money is profit once they finish cutting back the dev team? They then begin what EA is considered as being an MMO killer once something isn't successful, they lose the ability to say they have developed a Star Wars themed game, they lose all potential new customers right when that silly Star Wars TV show may be coming and alot of other Star Wars hype is still going around and nothing has been slated they actually GET SWG 2 yet to start over on any second drawing board. So go ahead and explain to me how closing it down would be a wise business move, I am dieing to hear this. Because SWG is the official laughingstock of all MMO's of all time... Thats why... Every waking hour that passes further degrades SOE's image, LA's image and the SW image as a whole... Also, the graphics engine for SWG is considerably out-dated... Let us set aside the agrument of SOE making or losing money, for all practical purposes this doesn't affect my reasoning for shutting it down... Theoretical Scenario here: SOE shuts SWG down, cuts losses and chalks it up as a failure (all businesses fail in one respect or the other)... They in turn either sell the license (if they could) or start work on a SWG2... They build a new game with a new engine from the ground up... If they were smart, they would take the apologetic route when releasing SWG2, and come right out and say "We finally got it right!"... Obiovusly the game would take a couple years at the very least to develop, and by this time the commotion will have settled down from the first SWG debacle, and SOE could have a fairly clean slate... Make no mistake about it though, they would lose a lot of money doing it this way, not only from the subs that wouldn't be coming in off of the 1st SWG, but the costs for developing the 2nd one too... If they copied WoW to it's fullest, and have something that was NGE-esque (without the bugs and tainted reputation) they could theoretically make their money back ten fold in the course of about 5 years after the game launches... They would have to bite the bullet in the meantime, but any succesful businessman or woman knows that if a product hasn't lived up to it's original expectations and hasn't sold near as well as originally thought, it is indeed time to go back to the drawing board... There are tons of examples in the field I work in showing this strategy...
Man, how many times can you avoid answering my question? The damage is ALREADY done, they can lose NOTHING buy keeping it running. They will do what they ALWAYS do and continue with business as usual, the whining will die down and fade away and they can just let it run on its own on a small staff doing some occasional patching if they actually wanna try at this point (which they don't need too since the community has proven you can give them trash and they will still play it to be able to play a star wars MMO).
The shut it down they open the wounds up all over again, prove everyone right, become more of a "laughing stock" as you put it and have that mark in this MMO history books for the rest of their exhistance. Right now they have issued a "contraversial update". You seem to think "closing down an MMO because of a contraversial update" is better business. Good thinking there...
Maybe later you will actually think of an answer to my question which was: "How is closing SWG a good business decision?" So far all you have given me is a horrible business plan of an entire new investment they don't even have the right to develop right now. And you think because some players are pissed off and a developer here or there has made an off statement about them that they are a "laughing stock" of the MMO development community. I think Turbine has already earned that far more then they have and they aren't even the worst.
So when you actually think up a real answer, look me up because your just flailing at this point.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
your missing my point, potential is GONE. So now it is irrelevant, HOWEVER they can still put the game on idle once they implement the work they are alread most of the way through and sit and collect profits. SOE is not losing money now with SWG, that is a completely rediculous statement. And if you really think the ToOW refunds are going to amount to anything more then a trivial amount then your mistaken. Most people are not going to go through the steps to mail it in snail mail with all the proper information and then wait for the money to be refunded, they may intend too but it will never happen.
So PLEASE explain to me how it is good business to close down a game that probably still has ATLEAST 100k customers that like the game and most of that money is profit once they finish cutting back the dev team? They then begin what EA is considered as being an MMO killer once something isn't successful, they lose the ability to say they have developed a Star Wars themed game, they lose all potential new customers right when that silly Star Wars TV show may be coming and alot of other Star Wars hype is still going around and nothing has been slated they actually GET SWG 2 yet to start over on any second drawing board. So go ahead and explain to me how closing it down would be a wise business move, I am dieing to hear this.
Because SWG is the official laughingstock of all MMO's of all time... Thats why... Every waking hour that passes further degrades SOE's image, LA's image and the SW image as a whole... Also, the graphics engine for SWG is considerably out-dated... Let us set aside the agrument of SOE making or losing money, for all practical purposes this doesn't affect my reasoning for shutting it down...
Theoretical Scenario here: SOE shuts SWG down, cuts losses and chalks it up as a failure (all businesses fail in one respect or the other)... They in turn either sell the license (if they could) or start work on a SWG2... They build a new game with a new engine from the ground up... If they were smart, they would take the apologetic route when releasing SWG2, and come right out and say "We finally got it right!"... Obiovusly the game would take a couple years at the very least to develop, and by this time the commotion will have settled down from the first SWG debacle, and SOE could have a fairly clean slate...
Make no mistake about it though, they would lose a lot of money doing it this way, not only from the subs that wouldn't be coming in off of the 1st SWG, but the costs for developing the 2nd one too... If they copied WoW to it's fullest, and have something that was NGE-esque (without the bugs and tainted reputation) they could theoretically make their money back ten fold in the course of about 5 years after the game launches... They would have to bite the bullet in the meantime, but any succesful businessman or woman knows that if a product hasn't lived up to it's original expectations and hasn't sold near as well as originally thought, it is indeed time to go back to the drawing board... There are tons of examples in the field I work in showing this strategy...
Just an FYI From inside the market information: If a game has 50,000 subscribers it will recoup its cost of development in about 1-2 years depending on investment in development.
If it has 100,000 subscribers it will recoup it's costs within 6 months to a year.
If it has over 200,000 subscribers it's 3-6 months.
SWG has been running in "pure profit" mode for over 2 years. Even now it's still in 'pure profit' mode as long as it's got more than about 50k subscribers. Even with the investment into NGE and TV adds.
You need to learn more about the costs behind the game before making the blanket statements that you are. The bottom line is that unless the subscriber base drops below 50,000 subscribers then SWG is still profitable.
Now... whether LA is willing to have it limp along with 50k subscribers is an entirely different question. We already know that SOE has no problems with letting a title they own run with 50k (or fewer) subs, as long as it's cutting a problem. See PlanetSide, Tanarus and Infantry as prime examples of games that are still open. Matter of fact I doubt Infantry or Tanarus are even profitable any longer but they're STILL up and running.
So, I would posit that as long as LucasArts LETS SOE keep the game running it will continue to run as long as it is making money. Those TV Adds, in the grand scheme of things, aint all that expensive. Maybe a month's profits, at most.
I suspect, however, that if SOE doesn't get things turned around, and fast, that LA will pull the plug on the game entirely.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Just an FYI From inside the market information: If a game has 50,000 subscribers it will recoup its cost of development in about 1-2 years depending on investment in development.If it has 100,000 subscribers it will recoup it's costs within 6 months to a year.If it has over 200,000 subscribers it's 3-6 months.SWG has been running in "pure profit" mode for over 2 years. Even now it's still in 'pure profit' mode as long as it's got more than about 50k subscribers. Even with the investment into NGE and TV adds.You need to learn more about the costs behind the game before making the blanket statements that you are. The bottom line is that unless the subscriber base drops below 50,000 subscribers then SWG is still profitable.Now... whether LA is willing to have it limp along with 50k subscribers is an entirely different question. We already know that SOE has no problems with letting a title they own run with 50k (or fewer) subs, as long as it's cutting a problem. See PlanetSide, Tanarus and Infantry as prime examples of games that are still open. Matter of fact I doubt Infantry or Tanarus are even profitable any longer but they're STILL up and running.So, I would posit that as long as LucasArts LETS SOE keep the game running it will continue to run as long as it is making money. Those TV Adds, in the grand scheme of things, aint all that expensive. Maybe a month's profits, at most.I suspect, however, that if SOE doesn't get things turned around, and fast, that LA will pull the plug on the game entirely.
Not to mention they lose pimp value for the station pass which is their strongest point right now. Having another game and the word Star Wars tied into the station pass is worth far too much to chalk up a game because they are a "laughing stock" to a few people.
If LEC pulls their license then they have to close it down and thats another story. If they close it down on their own then it would not be anymore suprising then the NGE however it would be the most horrible business move they could make at this point.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
What I don't get is why DisOrder can't do basic math
50,000 * 15.95 * 12 isn't a hard calculation to make. And it far exceeds the costs of running a few dozen servers and staff to maintain and do bug fixes.
Annual income of: $9,570,000.00
Right now SWG is probably at about 100,000 subs (if as many as I think cancelled)... this is pure supposition without any facts but it's my gut feeling. Sue me...
So 100,000 * 15.95 * 12 = 19,140,000 annual.
Granted they'd need to cut their team down in size but it's not like they're unwilling to provide crappy support
If it's left up to SOE this game won't die even if it's unprofitable. They'll just pare it down till it's on life support and stick it in a corner and leave the name "Star Wars Galaxies" on the SOE All Access Pass just to draw more people
Their big problem with the pass right now is that with the condition that SWG is in the SOE AAP isn't worth keeping. IMO. The only game on the entire pass worth paying a monthly fee (in my opinion) is EQ2... and it aint worth $21.95 a month. Even with the other games you get access to. which is why I cancelled my AAP in the first place.
As I said... the only way SWG dies is if LA pulls the plug.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Thats where I am starting to get with the AAP, however I have very close real life friends that I game with daily in it so it would be a hard transition off the AAP and EQ II.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Fadeus Thats where I am starting to get with the AAP, however I have very close real life friends that I game with daily in it so it would be a hard transition off the AAP and EQ II.
Come to DAOC man It's WAY better than EQ2 anyway.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
My take (as if there aren't already a million in this thread) is as follows:
They wil continue to refine the NGE with patchs and updates all the while soaking up the dollars from the remaining players. In a six month period, they will go back and review the trends of incoming and outgoing. Should there be a decrease - SWG will ride it out until someone pulls the plug. Like it has been stated before - no company ever walks away from free money.
HOWEVER, is there is a decline then expect that vaunted programming team to be splintered off into different projects like the DC game and such. I would like to say I have a hunch that Matrix Online and SWG are the test beds for future systems. What better sandbox to play in than low pop games that hasn't got much more to lose? I am pretty sure that they would never do this to an upcoming title considering how WoW has changed the market perception of what should be released and player #'s.
I am sure that there is concern in SOE and to some extent at LA but these companies don't view SWG as their main bread and butter. They can afford to take a loss in the interest of future advances and then again - they aren't losing now are they? Sure they are not at full pop on their servers but there are still players paying them. SOE will never turn down a free meal.
PreCU servers? Someone would have to be fired first because those someone's have been defiant about the matter. I personally would come back and play a nonsupported SWG precu as a side game and I am guessing that many others would but by doing so SOE/LA would have to do 2 things:
1. Go back and admit their changes were wrong. Snowball's chance at the equater. 2. Spend mullah and programming resources to get a nonsupported and limited future game (PreCu). No chance of expansions, no more media blitz. It would be like spending ten million dollars to make a commercial - Come eat at McDonalds. Try our old/new Big Mac. Yeah the public may like it but the point is moot as they already know what to expect.
Last thing. I expect an SWG2 sometime down the pike. Perhaps not SOE and definately not Blizzard but a spinoff company that will try something a bit more innovative. However, that time isnt now. I say such news of an experiment will be like in 2007 or 2008.
Originally posted by kefkah My take (as if there aren't already a million in this thread) is as follows: They wil continue to refine the NGE with patchs and updates all the while soaking up the dollars from the remaining players. In a six month period, they will go back and review the trends of incoming and outgoing. Should there be a decrease - SWG will ride it out until someone pulls the plug. Like it has been stated before - no company ever walks away from free money. HOWEVER, is there is a decline then expect that vaunted programming team to be splintered off into different projects like the DC game and such. I would like to say I have a hunch that Matrix Online and SWG are the test beds for future systems. What better sandbox to play in than low pop games that hasn't got much more to lose? I am pretty sure that they would never do this to an upcoming title considering how WoW has changed the market perception of what should be released and player #'s. I am sure that there is concern in SOE and to some extent at LA but these companies don't view SWG as their main bread and butter. They can afford to take a loss in the interest of future advances and then again - they aren't losing now are they? Sure they are not at full pop on their servers but there are still players paying them. SOE will never turn down a free meal. PreCU servers? Someone would have to be fired first because those someone's have been defiant about the matter. I personally would come back and play a nonsupported SWG precu as a side game and I am guessing that many others would but by doing so SOE/LA would have to do 2 things:1. Go back and admit their changes were wrong. Snowball's chance at the equater.2. Spend mullah and programming resources to get a nonsupported and limited future game (PreCu). No chance of expansions, no more media blitz. It would be like spending ten million dollars to make a commercial - Come eat at McDonalds. Try our old/new Big Mac. Yeah the public may like it but the point is moot as they already know what to expect. Last thing. I expect an SWG2 sometime down the pike. Perhaps not SOE and definately not Blizzard but a spinoff company that will try something a bit more innovative. However, that time isnt now. I say such news of an experiment will be like in 2007 or 2008. Just my thoughts.
Dissagree with you on 1 thing: If SWG doesn't succeed in bouncing back this time. That "Vaunted" programming team isn't gonna go on some other project, they'll get canned. It runs downhill, as they say.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Comments
Have to agree, although there have been packed servers since 2004. I checked server loads on the character creation screen only a few days ago. Two servers were on Medium (one being Bria, my server). The rest varied between light and very light. Leading up to the NGE announcement Bria was on extremely heavy, as was around 10% of the servers. Around 50% of the rest were on medium.
The scary thing over the NGE is how quickly population dropped. The day it was launched every server was at least on heavy, most on extemely heavy. Within 12 hours they dropped to medium and kept on going.
Well Sharky, the lost potential is enough to warrant shutting the servers down... Even if the servers were on medium, a MMO set in the SW universe should have all of them at 'heavy load' and should have as many servers and subscriptions as WoW does... And at this point, SWG doesn't even have 1/10 of either, which is pathetic...
Greetings,
hard to find your post under all the current white noise on the boards. Yes, I think your post about SWG not lasting a year was a wild GUESS not based on fact back then. One of your blind shots hit near the target through sheer volume of fire, but not for the reasons you mentioned.
No one heard about the NGE at this time. Neither you nor anyone. We heard about a starter package and maybe Jedi as starter profession and that was that.
I dont rule out NOW that SWG is folding before August. I give it about 20 % chance. Because of the NGE and the incredible exodus of players, most of which will NOT come back this time. Because this now is NOT about the game anymore, but about the treatment of customers.
At the moment I am not playing a lot of SWG (waiting for VERY MUCH NEEDED ground game hotfixes) and if I do I concentrate on Jump to Lightspeed (works mostly and is fun) and on desaster management (saving whats left of guild (70 % losses) and city).
So ... with much less online time in SWG comes much less postings here on the board as I try to know what I am talking about. Also I enjoyed helping new players with their first steps in SWG ... and at the moment I would NOT encourage any new players to start with NGE .. they would regret it.
We do agree that NGE was an incredible stupid move by SOE/LA. But you are not right with SWG not lasting a year ... and if by blind chance your guess becomes truth, its not related to any insight of yours but only related to luck and sheer management stupidity like this genre has not seen before.
Have fun
Erillion
Obviously bro! Everyone logged in (myself included through a friends char since I had quit after the first CU) to see what all the buzz was about and test the changes for themselves. The they all felt the stink and left.
Quite incredible these apologetic, miopic, SOE/LA/SWG Fanbois who still continue to say that the servers are "packed". Do they really call a server at medium population packed?!
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Greetings,
hard to find your post under all the current white noise on the boards. Yes, I think your post about SWG not lasting a year was a wild GUESS not based on fact back then. One of your blind shots hit near the target through sheer volume of fire, but not for the reasons you mentioned.
No one heard about the NGE at this time. Neither you nor anyone. We heard about a starter package and maybe Jedi as starter profession and that was that.
I dont rule out NOW that SWG is folding before August. I give it about 20 % chance. Because of the NGE and the incredible exodus of players, most of which will NOT come back this time. Because this now is NOT about the game anymore, but about the treatment of customers.
At the moment I am not playing a lot of SWG (waiting for VERY MUCH NEEDED ground game hotfixes) and if I do I concentrate on Jump to Lightspeed (works mostly and is fun) and on desaster management (saving whats left of guild (70 % losses) and city).
So ... with much less online time in SWG comes much less postings here on the board as I try to know what I am talking about. Also I enjoyed helping new players with their first steps in SWG ... and at the moment I would NOT encourage any new players to start with NGE .. they would regret it.
We do agree that NGE was an incredible stupid move by SOE/LA. But you are not right with SWG not lasting a year ... and if by blind chance your guess becomes truth, its not related to any insight of yours but only related to luck and sheer management stupidity like this genre has not seen before.
Have fun
Erillion
Hello Erillion,
While my purpose is not to defend Dis, and I hardly endorse his style of posting. I see his point. I too cried foul when the first CU hit. The CU screwed up some of us, but not a big majority and that was the problem. A lot of people had the mentality of "it's not a problem if it doesn't affect me!" and guess what, now it's affected them. And this is why a lot of people (myself included) have the luxury of saying I told you so.
I too think SWG it's on it's death-bed. Even if they get half of the subscriptions they lost back, there's just no excuse for having 200k-300k subs at best. This is Star Wars for crying out loud! Having this license is practically permission to print out your own money.
Even the most apologetic of Fanbois are asking for server merge, and the devs have not ruled out the possibility (not that their word is of any value anyway). Server mergers are a good indicator if impending death. And at this point, server mergers look all but inevitable.
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Nothing personal Wepps but the person that fed you that really sounds like they are trying to get a sympathy draw now. Poor dev's, they had all these great things planned
. I do not beleive their will be a rollback, as I have said in the past it would be a nightmare on so many levels if they did and they know it.
As for the stuff they have planned, too little too late. It should have been tested and COMPLETED BEFORE shoving the NGE on us, not after the fact and not as a carrot. I highly doubt they would turn off the servers as long as they can continue to draw profit from it and regardless of the cancelations, they can finish getting in the NGE and let it run on cruise control and live off new players and ones that stayed and make plenty of profit still. It would be in neither SOE or LEC's best interests to turn it off.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Your right about a rumor?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Your right about a rumor?
No... I'll admit, I was being a little cocky... Just trying to spice up the boards a little bit by playing the bad guy... I said back in August that SWG dies within the year... The NGE hadn't hit, but I had (still have) a real strong argument of why it will die, two words: Lost Potential... The NGE simply speeded up the process... I was sharply criticisized for making this observation, something to the effect of "People declared this about EQ, they looked stupid just as you do predicting this about SWG"... Now that it is becoming not necesarrily a reality, but a highly likely scenario, just looking for a little reckoning of what I said in the past... If anything, I should have guessed the demise of SWG by the end of the first fiscal quarter of '06, the devs really trumped my guess due to their idiocy and sloppy handling of the NGE...
Nothing personal Wepps but the person that fed you that really sounds like they are trying to get a sympathy draw now. Poor dev's, they had all these great things planned
. I do not beleive their will be a rollback, as I have said in the past it would be a nightmare on so many levels if they did and they know it.
As for the stuff they have planned, too little too late. It should have been tested and COMPLETED BEFORE shoving the NGE on us, not after the fact and not as a carrot. I highly doubt they would turn off the servers as long as they can continue to draw profit from it and regardless of the cancelations, they can finish getting in the NGE and let it run on cruise control and live off new players and ones that stayed and make plenty of profit still. It would be in neither SOE or LEC's best interests to turn it off.
I don't care personally, just passing it along.
It'll happen and you'll eat your words.
It won't happen and I lose nothing
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Spicing up the boards? I don't recall discussion forums needing "spicing up" ever, but ok. As for your arguement I will continue to tell you what I always have, you have no arguement. If you think it would have been in either companies best interest to close a paid for game you really have no concept of business.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
With the attitude your showing, looks like you could use a little spice in your life... "No concept of business"? I can safely assure you I know more about business than most others on these boards, as I will be the proud owner of the company I work at in less than two years, mutliple million dollar company too... My argument back in August, which you clearly did not read or comprehend deals with the Lost Potential of SWG... WoW came along and showed the world that millions of people can be brought into the MMO style of gaming... SWG's reputation and beta state (even back in August) would never be conducive to attaining millions of players, or even retaining a low number like 500k... You know this, I know this, we all know this...
So what is a coporation to do about this? SOE took the precarious route of revamping the game almost 3 years after it was released, and failed miserably... Now they have a bug ridden game, pissed of playerbase and PR bad enough to warrant national news coverage... They should have taken the route I suggested with pulling the plug, and making SWG2... So there, hopefully this is spelled out a little more clearly for you, I do have reasons, and damn good ones at that as to why this game is dying... LA and SOE want a slice of the WoW pie, and the NGE isn't gonna cut it... They are wasting an incredible opportunity with millions of SW gamers worldwide not having a good option for a SW MMO...
National news coverage? I wouldn't call the exposure all this has gotten exactly main headlines. And quite frankly most of the world isn't just all in tune with a video game and worried about it in their daily lives.
I have no idea what they will do but I know what they should do and probably will. Finish the NGE, get it semi smooth, run an advertising campaign and keep it stocked on shelves and let it idle on cruise control for the next several years and continue to bring in profit while maintaining the Star Wars name attached to SOE and being able to offer a Star Wars themed game. Companies don't pull the plug on a successful MMO because it never made it's potential.
Potential is irrelevant, they have a product and the product IS making money. Get off this potential BS and accept the fact that the suits make the last call on it and as long as its PROFITTABLE it would be far more in their best interests to keep it up, NOT take it down.
Business man are ya? Well then please start showing some business sense because right now you aren't showing any.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I know and I wasn't trying to be negative at you. I just don't really find it believable.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
If we'd known about NGE back then we'd have already been gone. You predicted that the CU would kill SWG. If they'd left the CU and not done NGE SWG would be growing right now. Up till the stealth XP nerf that we caught them red-handed in the player base was in a rapid and steady growth stage. And people were NOT cancelling. As a matter of fact, most people who initially cancelled when the CU hit had come back.
After the initial uproar about the stealth nerf SOE wisely backed it out and no real damage was done other than to those for whom it was the 'final straw' (myself included in that small crowd). If NGE hadn't been implemented the release of ToOW right before Thanksgiving would have been pure genius. If they'd left CU alone and worked on bug fixes, balancing and adding content instead of utterly destroying the game by Christmas SWG would probably have broken the 400k player mark.
NGE has the potential to kill SWG or revamp it into a whole new game. Just depends on whether mommy and daddy buy it for their kids. I suspect it'll kill it because LA and SOE won't have the patience to ride the nighmare out. If they DO have the patience for it AND if they can get CL30+ content in fast enough then SWG will be a new game entirely and lots of people will play it. I suspect, however, that it won't be over 100k players because, frankly, the FPS genre has NOT done well in the MMORPG format.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Still in: A couple Betas
your missing my point, potential is GONE. So now it is irrelevant, HOWEVER they can still put the game on idle once they implement the work they are alread most of the way through and sit and collect profits. SOE is not losing money now with SWG, that is a completely rediculous statement. And if you really think the ToOW refunds are going to amount to anything more then a trivial amount then your mistaken. Most people are not going to go through the steps to mail it in snail mail with all the proper information and then wait for the money to be refunded, they may intend too but it will never happen.
So PLEASE explain to me how it is good business to close down a game that probably still has ATLEAST 100k customers that like the game and most of that money is profit once they finish cutting back the dev team? They then begin what EA is considered as being an MMO killer once something isn't successful, they lose the ability to say they have developed a Star Wars themed game, they lose all potential new customers right when that silly Star Wars TV show may be coming and alot of other Star Wars hype is still going around and nothing has been slated they actually GET SWG 2 yet to start over on any second drawing board. So go ahead and explain to me how closing it down would be a wise business move, I am dieing to hear this.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Because SWG is the official laughingstock of all MMO's of all time... Thats why... Every waking hour that passes further degrades SOE's image, LA's image and the SW image as a whole... Also, the graphics engine for SWG is considerably out-dated... Let us set aside the agrument of SOE making or losing money, for all practical purposes this doesn't affect my reasoning for shutting it down...
Theoretical Scenario here:
SOE shuts SWG down, cuts losses and chalks it up as a failure (all businesses fail in one respect or the other)... They in turn either sell the license (if they could) or start work on a SWG2... They build a new game with a new engine from the ground up... If they were smart, they would take the apologetic route when releasing SWG2, and come right out and say "We finally got it right!"... Obiovusly the game would take a couple years at the very least to develop, and by this time the commotion will have settled down from the first SWG debacle, and SOE could have a fairly clean slate...
Make no mistake about it though, they would lose a lot of money doing it this way, not only from the subs that wouldn't be coming in off of the 1st SWG, but the costs for developing the 2nd one too... If they copied WoW to it's fullest, and have something that was NGE-esque (without the bugs and tainted reputation) they could theoretically make their money back ten fold in the course of about 5 years after the game launches... They would have to bite the bullet in the meantime, but any succesful businessman or woman knows that if a product hasn't lived up to it's original expectations and hasn't sold near as well as originally thought, it is indeed time to go back to the drawing board... There are tons of examples in the field I work in showing this strategy...
Man, how many times can you avoid answering my question? The damage is ALREADY done, they can lose NOTHING buy keeping it running. They will do what they ALWAYS do and continue with business as usual, the whining will die down and fade away and they can just let it run on its own on a small staff doing some occasional patching if they actually wanna try at this point (which they don't need too since the community has proven you can give them trash and they will still play it to be able to play a star wars MMO).
The shut it down they open the wounds up all over again, prove everyone right, become more of a "laughing stock" as you put it and have that mark in this MMO history books for the rest of their exhistance. Right now they have issued a "contraversial update". You seem to think "closing down an MMO because of a contraversial update" is better business. Good thinking there...
Maybe later you will actually think of an answer to my question which was: "How is closing SWG a good business decision?" So far all you have given me is a horrible business plan of an entire new investment they don't even have the right to develop right now. And you think because some players are pissed off and a developer here or there has made an off statement about them that they are a "laughing stock" of the MMO development community. I think Turbine has already earned that far more then they have and they aren't even the worst.
So when you actually think up a real answer, look me up because your just flailing at this point.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Just an FYI
From inside the market information:
If a game has 50,000 subscribers it will recoup its cost of development in about 1-2 years depending on investment in development.
If it has 100,000 subscribers it will recoup it's costs within 6 months to a year.
If it has over 200,000 subscribers it's 3-6 months.
SWG has been running in "pure profit" mode for over 2 years. Even now it's still in 'pure profit' mode as long as it's got more than about 50k subscribers. Even with the investment into NGE and TV adds.
You need to learn more about the costs behind the game before making the blanket statements that you are. The bottom line is that unless the subscriber base drops below 50,000 subscribers then SWG is still profitable.
Now... whether LA is willing to have it limp along with 50k subscribers is an entirely different question. We already know that SOE has no problems with letting a title they own run with 50k (or fewer) subs, as long as it's cutting a problem. See PlanetSide, Tanarus and Infantry as prime examples of games that are still open. Matter of fact I doubt Infantry or Tanarus are even profitable any longer but they're STILL up and running.
So, I would posit that as long as LucasArts LETS SOE keep the game running it will continue to run as long as it is making money. Those TV Adds, in the grand scheme of things, aint all that expensive. Maybe a month's profits, at most.
I suspect, however, that if SOE doesn't get things turned around, and fast, that LA will pull the plug on the game entirely.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Not to mention they lose pimp value for the station pass which is their strongest point right now. Having another game and the word Star Wars tied into the station pass is worth far too much to chalk up a game because they are a "laughing stock" to a few people.
If LEC pulls their license then they have to close it down and thats another story. If they close it down on their own then it would not be anymore suprising then the NGE however it would be the most horrible business move they could make at this point.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
What I don't get is why DisOrder can't do basic math
50,000 * 15.95 * 12 isn't a hard calculation to make. And it far exceeds the costs of running a few dozen servers and staff to maintain and do bug fixes.
Annual income of:
$9,570,000.00
Right now SWG is probably at about 100,000 subs (if as many as I think cancelled)... this is pure supposition without any facts but it's my gut feeling. Sue me...
So
100,000 * 15.95 * 12 = 19,140,000 annual.
Granted they'd need to cut their team down in size but it's not like they're unwilling to provide crappy support
If it's left up to SOE this game won't die even if it's unprofitable. They'll just pare it down till it's on life support and stick it in a corner and leave the name "Star Wars Galaxies" on the SOE All Access Pass just to draw more people
Their big problem with the pass right now is that with the condition that SWG is in the SOE AAP isn't worth keeping. IMO. The only game on the entire pass worth paying a monthly fee (in my opinion) is EQ2... and it aint worth $21.95 a month. Even with the other games you get access to. which is why I cancelled my AAP in the first place.
As I said... the only way SWG dies is if LA pulls the plug.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Still in: A couple Betas
Thats where I am starting to get with the AAP, however I have very close real life friends that I game with daily in it so it would be a hard transition off the AAP and EQ II.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Come to DAOC man
It's WAY better than EQ2 anyway.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
My take (as if there aren't already a million in this thread) is as follows:
They wil continue to refine the NGE with patchs and updates all the while soaking up the dollars from the remaining players. In a six month period, they will go back and review the trends of incoming and outgoing. Should there be a decrease - SWG will ride it out until someone pulls the plug. Like it has been stated before - no company ever walks away from free money.
HOWEVER, is there is a decline then expect that vaunted programming team to be splintered off into different projects like the DC game and such. I would like to say I have a hunch that Matrix Online and SWG are the test beds for future systems. What better sandbox to play in than low pop games that hasn't got much more to lose? I am pretty sure that they would never do this to an upcoming title considering how WoW has changed the market perception of what should be released and player #'s.
I am sure that there is concern in SOE and to some extent at LA but these companies don't view SWG as their main bread and butter. They can afford to take a loss in the interest of future advances and then again - they aren't losing now are they? Sure they are not at full pop on their servers but there are still players paying them. SOE will never turn down a free meal.
PreCU servers? Someone would have to be fired first because those someone's have been defiant about the matter. I personally would come back and play a nonsupported SWG precu as a side game and I am guessing that many others would but by doing so SOE/LA would have to do 2 things:
1. Go back and admit their changes were wrong. Snowball's chance at the equater.
2. Spend mullah and programming resources to get a nonsupported and limited future game (PreCu). No chance of expansions, no more media blitz. It would be like spending ten million dollars to make a commercial - Come eat at McDonalds. Try our old/new Big Mac. Yeah the public may like it but the point is moot as they already know what to expect.
Last thing. I expect an SWG2 sometime down the pike. Perhaps not SOE and definately not Blizzard but a spinoff company that will try something a bit more innovative. However, that time isnt now. I say such news of an experiment will be like in 2007 or 2008.
Just my thoughts.
Dissagree with you on 1 thing:
If SWG doesn't succeed in bouncing back this time. That "Vaunted" programming team isn't gonna go on some other project, they'll get canned. It runs downhill, as they say.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas