I don't like being delayed either, and I have to say that after years in consulting and business, I never promise anything I cannot deliver -early-. My first concern here is that the owner is using pre hype and short time frames to boost his game(s). Sure, you cannot avoid hype.. have to promote! However it's a very, very bad idea to promise what you cannot deliver. This means he doesn't really understand his product.. hopefully we can add 'yet' to that. Nor do they understand the cardinal rule of time estimates:
Estimate you give to customer = Time you THINK it will take * 2.5
Yes, I said 2.5 times over. And I have never missed a deadline... although its been close a few times. The thing you have to admit to yourself is that you DO NOT KNOW what will crop up, and so you give a cushion. If you always come in under deadline, the customer won't care that your deadlines are always longer than other people's. You don't break your promises.
So.. they are using 'rapid development' as a cornerstone of their ideology. Well you can't have that without sacrificing something, either money, quality or features. In their case, they are making sparse worlds with intelligent AI to have the NPCs generate content over time, and opening it up for player content. They are basically counting on the player base and their EAI to fill in all the blanks. Now, a great idea I have to say. It saves you at least a man year or two of effort in the creative department. Also, I am guessing they are betting on having to spend little time maintaining the worlds themselves, instead focussing on code fixing and developing new worlds. They are likely talking about player driven GM roles, although if they are they probably haven't worked out details to prevent abuse and favoritism.
So, essentially, you have a very sparse world, player driven content, little creative maintenence after the fact, and an untested AI running the entire backstory. You have a company that has no major funding source except for some rich guy(s) who like MMOGs. A company that feels the need to charge for pre orders before they are ready for open Beta. A company that is going to exotic markets like Africa to attract additional investors (for operating funds). A company that is spending a great deal of its time managing hype and creating sound bytes, interviews, and posting here on MMORPG.COM. A company that changes game engines mid stream because they realized after the fact that the engine they were using was shyte (they say it was to be able to take advantage of beter capabilities in Aura.. of course it is. The original engine was sub par). ADD TO THAT 5 MMO titles to be developed within.. what.. 5 years total?
Im sorry folks, but unless you have the pockets to hire a full dev team for every game, they -will- lack depth. They -will- suffer from lack of attention. Heaven help us when, 2 years after release, a bug needs to be fixed, or content needs to be pruned/added. What about new features? etc etc. Relying on players for a lion's share of content sounds like a good idea, but the long term ramifications of that are onerous at best as content, wealth and power becomes more and more skewed towards a few people who can afford to spend all day and night playing.
I wish them the best, I really do! This world needs more mavericks that are willing to stretch the boundaries. But REALIZE where those boundaries are, folks. And think a little deeper about your decisions before you make them.
In other words don't overpromise.. OverDeliver. Thats what Blizzard did and they -created- a big chunk of the market that folks like RR are trying to capitalize on. You might not like WoW because it is shallow, cookie cutter, whatever.. but it NABBED that market through careful decisions, great art and well thought out mechanics. Yes yes.. physics sucks, no player driven content, PvP is useless, etc etc. Look man, they have the market. Its up to their competition to grab it back, and they should admit to themselves and then analyze exactly what it was that Blizzard did in the first place to get it. Sure, luck had -some- part to play.. but anyone who says that's all it was is deluding themselves.
I have to agree with knomegnome -- overpromising is a rookie mistake, and overestimating is simply bad business.
After reading a lot about The Chronicle, I have to say that there's a ring a familiarity to it all. It conjures up Daikatana and all that went on there. I hate to give in to my inner cynic, but I suspect that if the game isn't vaporware and actually gets released, then it's going to fall short of the claims we're hearing.
Im know into 3 differents forums about TC where its been criticized, and there are MORE people supporting TC than those that dont belive in the game or the company. If the company have made mistake then no one cant say they didnt, but if the company has incomparable concept then no one cant say opposite.
TC staff is responding.. like no other company had. They are FAR MORE Innovative, than MOST.
There are just as much good reason to still trusting them as for the opposite.
Here too considering all post inside TC forum, i can count more ppl talking that support the game than those who dont.
You guys that just has no hope for TC can get a VERY BIG Surprise.
Delayed or not, TC STILL HAVE MORE PPL ON THEIR Side. If you are now trying to prove the opposite, i have newss... you just failed, as for today 19-03-06 MORE PPL BELIVE IN TC THAN THOSE WHO DONT.
And im not saying that TC already wins all debate, but im saying it still have champions qualities.
Originally posted by Melquisedec TC staff is responding...like no other company had.
Responding how? I give you that some of the ideas behind both their buisness and Game concepts are innovative, but as of yet they have done nothing except break those concepts by changing dead lines, closing lines of communication, and change the original concepts of the game. I'm sorry, but gnome above gave a very well thoughtout post about the why RR has demonstrated a poor ability to lead an MMO thus far; and this blanket non-supported response is insultingly dismissive of the obvious time and reasoning he put into his response.
Originally posted by Melquisedec TC staff is responding...like no other company had.
Responding how? I give you that some of the ideas behind both their buisness and Game concepts are innovative, but as of yet they have done nothing except break those concepts by changing dead lines, closing lines of communication, and change the original concepts of the game. I'm sorry, but gnome above gave a very well thoughtout post about the why RR has demonstrated a poor ability to lead an MMO thus far; and this blanket non-supported response is insultingly dismissive of the obvious time and reasoning he put into his response.
Responding to every question we've made, they had respond even to guys like you, in here these TC forums in more than two topics you find Official responds from TC staff, thats alone its more than applaudible, it doesnt really matter if just two guys just doesnt like the game, thats what i have seem in short term this days.
They have not break game concepts not even one, they had delays, they could even had missed their target date, or whatever related, BUT, you can find detailed information of why they had those delayes, and the reasons given so far, are quite reasonable, and logic based.
I can strongly say that TC its actually more supported and anticipated than hopeless as you want to stated.
You are very wrong if you just assume that such a innovative game its ruined before it actually get realesed.
TC The Best MMORPG Concept Ever. Deserve The Best Anticipation. It has what LOT players are just waiting for.
Originally posted by Melquisedec Responding to every question we've made, they had respond even to guys like you, in here these TC forums in more than two topics you find Official responds from TC staff, thats alone its more than applaudible, it doesnt really matter if just two guys just doesnt like the game, thats what i have seem in short term this days. They have not break game concepts not even one, they had delays, they could even had missed their target date, or whatever related, BUT, you can find detailed information of why they had those delayes, and the reasons given so far, are quite reasonable, and logic based. I can strongly say that TC its actually more supported and anticipated than hopeless as you want to stated. You are very wrong if you just assume that such a innovative game its ruined before it actually get realesed. TC The Best MMORPG Concept Ever. Deserve The Best Anticipation. It has what LOT players are just waiting for.
As of yet it has nothing that players are looking for. I grant you they have some good idea's, but they are hardly idea's that haven't been advocated by other games in the past that never came to pass. Don't let your desire supercede you empiricalism at this point the game is just a bunch of unfinished data and someones brainchild, not innovation.
I grant you the CG has made some posts on these forums, but none of them were really responses to anything. Most of them have been poorly vailed sarcasm and poorly constructed defenses of the mistakes they have made up to this point. Such as trying to claim the engine switch wasn't a delay, or the great response of we won't release the game until it's done. CG has even gotten to the point that on their own forums they lock posts that are legitamate critisims being dicussed even less heated then our discussion under the pretense of "flaming."
As for changing concepts, what about the changes in the perma death system. The change is aimed to decrease the risk for main characters, which is a huge change from the original concept of the game. There are a couple of others that I am not at liberty to talk about because of the NDA, but considering the lack of information the few changes we do know about it doesn't bold well that the game you have read about is going to be the same as the one released.
As for the reasons for the delays they are veiled, lack any responsibility, and evasive of the truths that are likely as discussed in gnomes poat.
I think you are wrong if you think that a company that has been promoted as an innovative company, based upon producing many games quickly for one fee, isn't going to take a major hit from delays, development of unanticipated games (such as africa and endless ages), and the perception of a poorly run company.
Neither of us at this point can say one way or the other that Chronical will or won't be any good. However, what I can say is that there is no reason to beleive that the game will be good, other than a list of content hoped for. And, there are plenty of reasons to believe why this 20 year old inexperinced kid of a lead designer who has made last minute changes (not just delays but last minute major changes in release) in the games production doesn't have the ability to bring this company to frutation.
Maybe I and others are wrong. Could well be and I doubt most criticizing this game would claim otherwise, but given what we do know throuhg the operations of this company until this point it doesn't look favorable that this company has the ability to produce a game of the magnitude they are attempting.
As of yet it has nothing that players are looking for. I grant you they have some good idea's, but they are hardly idea's that haven't been advocated by other games in the past that never came to pass. Don't let your desire supercede you empiricalism at this point the game is just a bunch of unfinished data and someones brainchild, not innovation.
I grant you the CG has made some posts on these forums, but none of them were really responses to anything. Most of them have been poorly vailed sarcasm and poorly constructed defenses of the mistakes they have made up to this point. Such as trying to claim the engine switch wasn't a delay, or the great response of we won't release the game until it's done. CG has even gotten to the point that on their own forums they lock posts that are legitamate critisims being dicussed even less heated then our discussion under the pretense of "flaming."
As for changing concepts, what about the changes in the perma death system. The change is aimed to decrease the risk for main characters, which is a huge change from the original concept of the game. There are a couple of others that I am not at liberty to talk about because of the NDA, but considering the lack of information the few changes we do know about it doesn't bold well that the game you have read about is going to be the same as the one released.
As for the reasons for the delays they are veiled, lack any responsibility, and evasive of the truths that are likely as discussed in gnomes poat.
I think you are wrong if you think that a company that has been promoted as an innovative company, based upon producing many games quickly for one fee, isn't going to take a major hit from delays, development of unanticipated games (such as africa and endless ages), and the perception of a poorly run company.
Neither of us at this point can say one way or the other that Chronical will or won't be any good. However, what I can say is that there is no reason to beleive that the game will be good, other than a list of content hoped for. And, there are plenty of reasons to believe why this 20 year old inexperinced kid of a lead designer who has made last minute changes (not just delays but last minute major changes in release) in the games production doesn't have the ability to bring this company to frutation.
Maybe I and others are wrong. Could well be and I doubt most criticizing this game would claim otherwise, but given what we do know throuhg the operations of this company until this point it doesn't look favorable that this company has the ability to produce a game of the magnitude they are attempting.
Originally posted by bverji
Originally posted by Melquisedec TC staff is responding...like no other company had.
Responding how? I give you that some of the ideas behind both their buisness and Game concepts are innovative, but as of yet they have done nothing except break those concepts by changing dead lines, closing lines of communication, and change the original concepts of the game. I'm sorry, but gnome above gave a very well thoughtout post about the why RR has demonstrated a poor ability to lead an MMO thus far; and this blanket non-supported response is insultingly dismissive of the obvious time and reasoning he put into his response.
You have a good time contradicting yourself, reread some of your post, you yourself admits TC its innovative, one way or another, and in the previous post you said they are not? Huh? And you criticized that they dont respond properly, but you actually admit in your previous post that they have give some answer in here? I have it very clear, you just dont like TC and/or dont like RR. Or both. If so.. i and many more dont care about your opinion since you are just gonna be refusing the idea that TC has chances to be a great game.
Lastly you said no one can say if the game could be good or not so far, but then you are contradicting yourself when you said that there is no reason to belive that it will be good?
Man, TC HAS GREAT GAME CONCEPT if it go live Anyone Can Strongly say that it will be one of the best games Ever. In the end think of the posibilitie that this game can actually be released. To say there is no reason to belive in the company its just a very personal opinion. There are as much reason to understand the delays as much to actually criticized them.
New engine and detailed info of what this changes mean has been pub in the dev journal and or forum, and given reasons so far, are reasonable, and logicfull.
Ah, and one more thing i was forgetting, this game does have what many players are specting, like a fully player orientated virtual world. And i dont have to say much more, i can compare the hole pack o features of TC and compare to any other MMORPG, and i find that in one o one duel No MMORPG offers more than TC to date. It will take many MMORPG to actually archived the many features TC is offering. Thats a fact. And still as you say, and i agree, we can surely find things that are Innovative in TC.
You have a good time contradicting yourself, reread some of your post, you yourself admits TC its innovative, one way or another, and in the previous post you said they are not? Huh? And you criticized that they dont respond properly, but you actually admit
Now your just being argumentative. There is a difference between their IDEAs being innovative and the game/company being innovative in practice. Ther is a difference between haveing a game in hand and stating that it is good and making a guess upon what data you do have (which is what everybody here is doing). Within the context of what I wrote there is no contradiction and the meaning should be obvious to anyone not purposly attempting to take them out of context. You keep talking about how good the ideas for the game are, which few disagrees with. However, what others are saying is that the last minute changes and the hype around the game/company that hasn't been meet shows a liklihood that RR doesn't have the ability to make such a game. Stating that you like the game concepts over and over doesn't do much to answer that.
Originally posted by Melquisedec TC staff is responding...like no other company had.
Responding how? I give you that some of the ideas behind both their buisness and Game concepts are innovative, but as of yet they have done nothing except break those concepts by changing dead lines, closing lines of communication, and change the original concepts of the game. I'm sorry, but gnome above gave a very well thoughtout post about the why RR has demonstrated a poor ability to lead an MMO thus far; and this blanket non-supported response is insultingly dismissive of the obvious time and reasoning he put into his response.
Yes i've being argumentative, but not just that. Since i actually demostrated that you have contradicted yourself, and you still, now you are saying that you were referring just to the company when you said it wasnt innovative, once again i can put your own text saying that you think that their business ideas are innovative (which is truth). See above.
Originally posted by bverji
Originally posted by Melquisedec
You have a good time contradicting yourself, reread some of your post, you yourself admits TC its innovative, one way or another, and in the previous post you said they are not? Huh? And you criticized that they dont respond properly, but you actually admit
Now your just being argumentative. There is a difference between their IDEAs being innovative and the game/company being innovative in practice. Ther is a difference between haveing a game in hand and stating that it is good and making a guess upon what data you do have (which is what everybody here is doing). Within the context of what I wrote there is no contradiction and the meaning should be obvious to anyone not purposly attempting to take them out of context. You keep talking about how good the ideas for the game are, which few disagrees with. However, what others are saying is that the last minute changes and the hype around the game/company that hasn't been meet shows a liklihood that RR doesn't have the ability to make such a game. Stating that you like the game concepts over and over doesn't do much to answer that.
False, they are fewer saying such a thing... the last minutes changes to the game are Really Positive, New Game Engine, That is in general more powerful, specially the new graphics.
Whats really happening is that there are few people that are just unreasonable, impatience, that are just pissed off, and actually dont want the game to even get released. You, and others should be more sincerely, if you just Hate the company and the game, you have rights to say it and thats it, but to enter a game forums just to demotivate. Its quite cheap.
But how about this, just give them a chance to actually bring the game, i know many of us have gave others company 2 years and more waiting for a game that meets (in the best cases) the half of what TC have to offer. Lastly, stating i like the game over and over as Many do in many places, it does give you a good Answer. LOT PEOPLE STILL INTERESTED IN TC EVEN AFTER THE DELAYS AND WILL WAIT TILL IT RELEASED AND WILL EVENTUALLY TRY IT. And a again im not saying it has just win, im saying it has good chances of winning, and ppl will try it out. The fact that there many strong arguments to support TC its quite an answer too, just bring a game that have more than the half of what TC is offering? If you cant, then the Hype around TC and RR its just all right, and other opposite position on the matter is quite wrong.
Yes i've being argumentative, but not just that. Since i actually demostrated that you have contradicted yourself, and you still, now you are saying that you were referring just to the company when you said it wasnt innovative, .
Saying something over and over doesn't make it true. Again I said IDEAs over the game and business are innovative. There is a difference between their buisness model being innovate and the practice of their buisness being innovative. You are choosing to see a contradiction that doesn't exsist.
Originally posted by knomegnome I never promise anything I cannot deliver -early-. My first concern here is that the owner is using pre hype and short time frames to boost his game(s). Sure, you cannot avoid hype.. have to promote! However it's a very, very bad idea to promise what you cannot deliver. This means he doesn't really understand his product.. hopefully we can add 'yet' to that. ... So.. they are using 'rapid development' as a cornerstone of their ideology. Well you can't have that without sacrificing something, either money, quality or features. In their case, they are making sparse worlds with intelligent AI to have the NPCs generate content over time, and opening it up for player content. They are basically counting on the player base and their EAI to fill in all the blanks. Now, a great idea I have to say. It saves you at least a man year or two of effort in the creative department. Also, I am guessing they are betting on having to spend little time maintaining the worlds themselves, instead focussing on code fixing and developing new worlds. They are likely talking about player driven GM roles, although if they are they probably haven't worked out details to prevent abuse and favoritism. So, essentially, you have a very sparse world, player driven content, little creative maintenence after the fact, and an untested AI running the entire backstory. You have a company that has no major funding source except for some rich guy(s) who like MMOGs. A company that feels the need to charge for pre orders before they are ready for open Beta. A company that is going to exotic markets like Africa to attract additional investors (for operating funds). A company that is spending a great deal of its time managing hype and creating sound bytes, interviews, and posting here on MMORPG.COM. A company that changes game engines mid stream because they realized after the fact that the engine they were using was shyte (they say it was to be able to take advantage of beter capabilities in Aura.. of course it is. The original engine was sub par). ADD TO THAT 5 MMO titles to be developed within.. what.. 5 years total? Im sorry folks, but unless you have the pockets to hire a full dev team for every game, they -will- lack depth. They -will- suffer from lack of attention. Heaven help us when, 2 years after release, a bug needs to be fixed, or content needs to be pruned/added. What about new features? etc etc. Relying on players for a lion's share of content sounds like a good idea, but the long term ramifications of that are onerous at best as content, wealth and power becomes more and more skewed towards a few people who can afford to spend all day and night playing. I wish them the best, I really do! This world needs more mavericks that are willing to stretch the boundaries. But REALIZE where those boundaries are, folks. And think a little deeper about your decisions before you make them. In other words don't overpromise.. OverDeliver. Thats what Blizzard did and they -created- a big chunk of the market that folks like RR are trying to capitalize on. You might not like WoW because it is shallow, cookie cutter, whatever.. but it NABBED that market through careful decisions, great art and well thought out mechanics. Yes yes.. physics sucks, no player driven content, PvP is useless, etc etc. Look man, they have the market. Its up to their competition to grab it back, and they should admit to themselves and then analyze exactly what it was that Blizzard did in the first place to get it. Sure, luck had -some- part to play.. but anyone who says that's all it was is deluding themselves.
because it would be a shame to bury the post and it answers the rest of your post pretty well.
Its one year of delay too much? it is really imposible to came out with something completly different? Thats all good. As good as it can be TC after released, lets just see what happens then. But someone who has been in atlanta at RR, said Rapid Reality is For Real, she wasnt trusting them before she entered, but when she went out, she was. Maybe that will happen to few.
Im sure many ppl still like TC and RR ideals, like me, and if you like something, and want something you should pray for that, belive in that. I want what TC has to offer. I think RR can make it, maybe not as fast as they themself (and us gamers) want, but i think they can. And if they make it, it will be great.
just bring a game that have more than the half of what TC is offering? If you cant, then the Hype around TC and RR its just all right, and other opposite position on the matter is quite wrong.
Just curious here, but could you provide a list of things TC is offering that noone else has up until now? Just the major points will do.
[sarcasm] OMG ... you are hilarious. Do you have writers that come up with your material? Cuz I mean that was both witty AND original. I seriously can't wait for more. You sir, deserve a medal for your amazing ability to assess a situation and just express it in such an artful manner. The world could learn from you. So much respect to be garnered from that 189 post count when it comes to posting one word remarks. [/sarcasm]
Originally posted by brando13184 Originally posted by skitzdout vapour........
[sarcasm] OMG ... you are hilarious. Do you have writers that come up with your material? Cuz I mean that was both witty AND original. I seriously can't wait for more. You sir, deserve a medal for your amazing ability to assess a situation and just express it in such an artful manner. The world could learn from you. So much respect to be garnered from that 189 post count when it comes to posting one word remarks. [/sarcasm]
Hey brando, when did you start working for RR?...or is that attitude just on loan.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Originally posted by brando13184 Hey look, its Remyburke, the biggest fair weather fan in TC! Actually I own the attitude, but I can loan it out to you if you want ...
I'm just realistic brando. In order for me to be "fair weather", that would mean something good would have to happen from time to time. I was just wondering why you've been on the offensive so much so lately...it's not like you.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
I've always been on the offensive when it comes to people claiming that the game is vapourware. That just rages me because its an ignorant comment. I always take the time to shed light on the situation if someone makes a comment that at least has some intelligence to it. Otherwise, stupid comments are met with sarcastic ones from me.
Good stuff does happen from time to time and I honestly wish you'd join us on IRC and hang out once in a while. That's where the fair weather comment comes from. We're all friend hanging out in the chat discussing a wide array of topics and not just TC. We just want you to hang out from time to time. IRC is where the good stuff is where questions are answered and there's more faster, two way communication than the boards.
Originally posted by brando13184 I've always been on the offensive when it comes to people claiming that the game is vapourware. That just rages me because its an ignorant comment. I always take the time to shed light on the situation if someone makes a comment that at least has some intelligence to it. Otherwise, stupid comments are met with sarcastic ones from me. Good stuff does happen from time to time and I honestly wish you'd join us on IRC and hang out once in a while. That's where the fair weather comment comes from. We're all friend hanging out in the chat discussing a wide array of topics and not just TC. We just want you to hang out from time to time. IRC is where the good stuff is where questions are answered and there's more faster, two way communication than the boards.
Just because IRC is faster and more convenient doesn't mean that should be the only place to get information. There has be next to zero flow of information from RR for 2 months.
And before you come back with a nice smart arse comment about I can join IRC like the rest of us...sorry only time I surf is at work and IRC is blocked by firewalls.
Anyway...still waiting for some updates to the Dev journals on what is still true and what is not accurate. Maybe since you have the ability to be in IRC, pass that info along to CG.
Comments
I don't like being delayed either, and I have to say that after years in consulting and business, I never promise anything I cannot deliver -early-. My first concern here is that the owner is using pre hype and short time frames to boost his game(s). Sure, you cannot avoid hype.. have to promote! However it's a very, very bad idea to promise what you cannot deliver. This means he doesn't really understand his product.. hopefully we can add 'yet' to that. Nor do they understand the cardinal rule of time estimates:
Estimate you give to customer = Time you THINK it will take * 2.5
Yes, I said 2.5 times over. And I have never missed a deadline... although its been close a few times. The thing you have to admit to yourself is that you DO NOT KNOW what will crop up, and so you give a cushion. If you always come in under deadline, the customer won't care that your deadlines are always longer than other people's. You don't break your promises.
So.. they are using 'rapid development' as a cornerstone of their ideology. Well you can't have that without sacrificing something, either money, quality or features. In their case, they are making sparse worlds with intelligent AI to have the NPCs generate content over time, and opening it up for player content. They are basically counting on the player base and their EAI to fill in all the blanks. Now, a great idea I have to say. It saves you at least a man year or two of effort in the creative department. Also, I am guessing they are betting on having to spend little time maintaining the worlds themselves, instead focussing on code fixing and developing new worlds. They are likely talking about player driven GM roles, although if they are they probably haven't worked out details to prevent abuse and favoritism.
So, essentially, you have a very sparse world, player driven content, little creative maintenence after the fact, and an untested AI running the entire backstory. You have a company that has no major funding source except for some rich guy(s) who like MMOGs. A company that feels the need to charge for pre orders before they are ready for open Beta. A company that is going to exotic markets like Africa to attract additional investors (for operating funds). A company that is spending a great deal of its time managing hype and creating sound bytes, interviews, and posting here on MMORPG.COM. A company that changes game engines mid stream because they realized after the fact that the engine they were using was shyte (they say it was to be able to take advantage of beter capabilities in Aura.. of course it is. The original engine was sub par). ADD TO THAT 5 MMO titles to be developed within.. what.. 5 years total?
Im sorry folks, but unless you have the pockets to hire a full dev team for every game, they -will- lack depth. They -will- suffer from lack of attention. Heaven help us when, 2 years after release, a bug needs to be fixed, or content needs to be pruned/added. What about new features? etc etc. Relying on players for a lion's share of content sounds like a good idea, but the long term ramifications of that are onerous at best as content, wealth and power becomes more and more skewed towards a few people who can afford to spend all day and night playing.
I wish them the best, I really do! This world needs more mavericks that are willing to stretch the boundaries. But REALIZE where those boundaries are, folks. And think a little deeper about your decisions before you make them.
In other words don't overpromise.. OverDeliver. Thats what Blizzard did and they -created- a big chunk of the market that folks like RR are trying to capitalize on. You might not like WoW because it is shallow, cookie cutter, whatever.. but it NABBED that market through careful decisions, great art and well thought out mechanics. Yes yes.. physics sucks, no player driven content, PvP is useless, etc etc. Look man, they have the market. Its up to their competition to grab it back, and they should admit to themselves and then analyze exactly what it was that Blizzard did in the first place to get it. Sure, luck had -some- part to play.. but anyone who says that's all it was is deluding themselves.
I have to agree with knomegnome -- overpromising is a rookie mistake, and overestimating is simply bad business.
After reading a lot about The Chronicle, I have to say that there's a ring a familiarity to it all. It conjures up Daikatana and all that went on there. I hate to give in to my inner cynic, but I suspect that if the game isn't vaporware and actually gets released, then it's going to fall short of the claims we're hearing.
Im know into 3 differents forums about TC where its been criticized, and there are MORE people supporting TC than those that dont belive in the game or the company. If the company have made mistake then no one cant say they didnt, but if the company has incomparable concept then no one cant say opposite.
TC staff is responding.. like no other company had. They are FAR MORE Innovative, than MOST.
There are just as much good reason to still trusting them as for the opposite.
Here too considering all post inside TC forum, i can count more ppl talking that support the game than those who dont.
You guys that just has no hope for TC can get a VERY BIG Surprise.
Delayed or not, TC STILL HAVE MORE PPL ON THEIR Side. If you are now trying to prove the opposite, i have newss... you just failed, as for today 19-03-06 MORE PPL BELIVE IN TC THAN THOSE WHO DONT.
And im not saying that TC already wins all debate, but im saying it still have champions qualities.
Responding to every question we've made, they had respond even to guys like you, in here these TC forums in more than two topics you find Official responds from TC staff, thats alone its more than applaudible, it doesnt really matter if just two guys just doesnt like the game, thats what i have seem in short term this days.
They have not break game concepts not even one, they had delays, they could even had missed their target date, or whatever related, BUT, you can find detailed information of why they had those delayes, and the reasons given so far, are quite reasonable, and logic based.
I can strongly say that TC its actually more supported and anticipated than hopeless as you want to stated.
You are very wrong if you just assume that such a innovative game its ruined before it actually get realesed.
TC The Best MMORPG Concept Ever. Deserve The Best Anticipation. It has what LOT players are just waiting for.
As of yet it has nothing that players are looking for. I grant you they have some good idea's, but they are hardly idea's that haven't been advocated by other games in the past that never came to pass. Don't let your desire supercede you empiricalism at this point the game is just a bunch of unfinished data and someones brainchild, not innovation.
I grant you the CG has made some posts on these forums, but none of them were really responses to anything. Most of them have been poorly vailed sarcasm and poorly constructed defenses of the mistakes they have made up to this point. Such as trying to claim the engine switch wasn't a delay, or the great response of we won't release the game until it's done. CG has even gotten to the point that on their own forums they lock posts that are legitamate critisims being dicussed even less heated then our discussion under the pretense of "flaming."
As for changing concepts, what about the changes in the perma death system. The change is aimed to decrease the risk for main characters, which is a huge change from the original concept of the game. There are a couple of others that I am not at liberty to talk about because of the NDA, but considering the lack of information the few changes we do know about it doesn't bold well that the game you have read about is going to be the same as the one released.
As for the reasons for the delays they are veiled, lack any responsibility, and evasive of the truths that are likely as discussed in gnomes poat.
I think you are wrong if you think that a company that has been promoted as an innovative company, based upon producing many games quickly for one fee, isn't going to take a major hit from delays, development of unanticipated games (such as africa and endless ages), and the perception of a poorly run company.
Neither of us at this point can say one way or the other that Chronical will or won't be any good. However, what I can say is that there is no reason to beleive that the game will be good, other than a list of content hoped for. And, there are plenty of reasons to believe why this 20 year old inexperinced kid of a lead designer who has made last minute changes (not just delays but last minute major changes in release) in the games production doesn't have the ability to bring this company to frutation.
Maybe I and others are wrong. Could well be and I doubt most criticizing this game would claim otherwise, but given what we do know throuhg the operations of this company until this point it doesn't look favorable that this company has the ability to produce a game of the magnitude they are attempting.
You have a good time contradicting yourself, reread some of your post, you yourself admits TC its innovative, one way or another, and in the previous post you said they are not? Huh? And you criticized that they dont respond properly, but you actually admit in your previous post that they have give some answer in here? I have it very clear, you just dont like TC and/or dont like RR. Or both. If so.. i and many more dont care about your opinion since you are just gonna be refusing the idea that TC has chances to be a great game.
Lastly you said no one can say if the game could be good or not so far, but then you are contradicting yourself when you said that there is no reason to belive that it will be good?
Man, TC HAS GREAT GAME CONCEPT if it go live Anyone Can Strongly say that it will be one of the best games Ever. In the end think of the posibilitie that this game can actually be released. To say there is no reason to belive in the company its just a very personal opinion. There are as much reason to understand the delays as much to actually criticized them.
New engine and detailed info of what this changes mean has been pub in the dev journal and or forum, and given reasons so far, are reasonable, and logicfull.
Ah, and one more thing i was forgetting, this game does have what many players are specting, like a fully player orientated virtual world. And i dont have to say much more, i can compare the hole pack o features of TC and compare to any other MMORPG, and i find that in one o one duel No MMORPG offers more than TC to date. It will take many MMORPG to actually archived the many features TC is offering. Thats a fact. And still as you say, and i agree, we can surely find things that are Innovative in TC.
You have a good time contradicting yourself, reread some of your post, you yourself admits TC its innovative, one way or another, and in the previous post you said they are not? Huh? And you criticized that they dont respond properly, but you actually admit
Now your just being argumentative. There is a difference between their IDEAs being innovative and the game/company being innovative in practice. Ther is a difference between haveing a game in hand and stating that it is good and making a guess upon what data you do have (which is what everybody here is doing). Within the context of what I wrote there is no contradiction and the meaning should be obvious to anyone not purposly attempting to take them out of context. You keep talking about how good the ideas for the game are, which few disagrees with. However, what others are saying is that the last minute changes and the hype around the game/company that hasn't been meet shows a liklihood that RR doesn't have the ability to make such a game. Stating that you like the game concepts over and over doesn't do much to answer that.
You have a good time contradicting yourself, reread some of your post, you yourself admits TC its innovative, one way or another, and in the previous post you said they are not? Huh? And you criticized that they dont respond properly, but you actually admit
Now your just being argumentative. There is a difference between their IDEAs being innovative and the game/company being innovative in practice. Ther is a difference between haveing a game in hand and stating that it is good and making a guess upon what data you do have (which is what everybody here is doing). Within the context of what I wrote there is no contradiction and the meaning should be obvious to anyone not purposly attempting to take them out of context. You keep talking about how good the ideas for the game are, which few disagrees with. However, what others are saying is that the last minute changes and the hype around the game/company that hasn't been meet shows a liklihood that RR doesn't have the ability to make such a game. Stating that you like the game concepts over and over doesn't do much to answer that.
False, they are fewer saying such a thing... the last minutes changes to the game are Really Positive, New Game Engine, That is in general more powerful, specially the new graphics.
Whats really happening is that there are few people that are just unreasonable, impatience, that are just pissed off, and actually dont want the game to even get released. You, and others should be more sincerely, if you just Hate the company and the game, you have rights to say it and thats it, but to enter a game forums just to demotivate. Its quite cheap.
But how about this, just give them a chance to actually bring the game, i know many of us have gave others company 2 years and more waiting for a game that meets (in the best cases) the half of what TC have to offer. Lastly, stating i like the game over and over as Many do in many places, it does give you a good Answer. LOT PEOPLE STILL INTERESTED IN TC EVEN AFTER THE DELAYS AND WILL WAIT TILL IT RELEASED AND WILL EVENTUALLY TRY IT. And a again im not saying it has just win, im saying it has good chances of winning, and ppl will try it out. The fact that there many strong arguments to support TC its quite an answer too, just bring a game that have more than the half of what TC is offering? If you cant, then the Hype around TC and RR its just all right, and other opposite position on the matter is quite wrong.
Nice.
Its one year of delay too much? it is really imposible to came out with something completly different? Thats all good. As good as it can be TC after released, lets just see what happens then. But someone who has been in atlanta at RR, said Rapid Reality is For Real, she wasnt trusting them before she entered, but when she went out, she was. Maybe that will happen to few.
Im sure many ppl still like TC and RR ideals, like me, and if you like something, and want something you should pray for that, belive in that. I want what TC has to offer. I think RR can make it, maybe not as fast as they themself (and us gamers) want, but i think they can. And if they make it, it will be great.
Spamming the forums with smilies to raise your score is impossible. It will actually hurt your score and your standing here.
Enigma
"This game looks great! I can't wait to play it."
that.
just bring a game that have more than the half of what TC is offering? If you cant, then the Hype around TC and RR its just all right, and other opposite position on the matter is quite wrong.
Just curious here, but could you provide a list of things TC is offering that noone else has up until now? Just the major points will do.
vapour........
Head Joint SoundCloud Page
https://soundcloud.com/headjointambient1
[sarcasm] OMG ... you are hilarious. Do you have writers that come up with your material? Cuz I mean that was both witty AND original. I seriously can't wait for more. You sir, deserve a medal for your amazing ability to assess a situation and just express it in such an artful manner. The world could learn from you. So much respect to be garnered from that 189 post count when it comes to posting one word remarks. [/sarcasm]
[sarcasm] OMG ... you are hilarious. Do you have writers that come up with your material? Cuz I mean that was both witty AND original. I seriously can't wait for more. You sir, deserve a medal for your amazing ability to assess a situation and just express it in such an artful manner. The world could learn from you. So much respect to be garnered from that 189 post count when it comes to posting one word remarks. [/sarcasm]
Hey brando, when did you start working for RR?...or is that attitude just on loan.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Hey look, its Remyburke, the biggest fair weather fan in TC!
Actually I own the attitude, but I can loan it out to you if you want ...
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
I've always been on the offensive when it comes to people claiming that the game is vapourware. That just rages me because its an ignorant comment. I always take the time to shed light on the situation if someone makes a comment that at least has some intelligence to it. Otherwise, stupid comments are met with sarcastic ones from me.
Good stuff does happen from time to time and I honestly wish you'd join us on IRC and hang out once in a while. That's where the fair weather comment comes from. We're all friend hanging out in the chat discussing a wide array of topics and not just TC. We just want you to hang out from time to time. IRC is where the good stuff is where questions are answered and there's more faster, two way communication than the boards.
Just because IRC is faster and more convenient doesn't mean that should be the only place to get information. There has be next to zero flow of information from RR for 2 months.
And before you come back with a nice smart arse comment about I can join IRC like the rest of us...sorry only time I surf is at work and IRC is blocked by firewalls.
Anyway...still waiting for some updates to the Dev journals on what is still true and what is not accurate. Maybe since you have the ability to be in IRC, pass that info along to CG.