84% .. if thats what makes you play that piece of crap game, go for it.
--->Too late. I AM playing since summer 2003 and have seen it all.
I got a hundred other reviews that say that game is a not even 50%. Just read the New York Times.
--> Go ahead and list the 100. Dont make things up. I guess I have read all the available reviews (inlcuding those from "christian" magazines online), and of course also the NYT. And THAT one is NOT rating the NGE at 50- %. In fact it does not even give it a rating at all, but discussing the EFFECTS of such radical changes. Try to spout less hate rhetoric and more facts, will ya ?!
Enjoy the kiddy game! That game is for fanbois anyways now. I thought CU was bad. SWG shouldnt be declared a MMORPG anymore. Just a wanna be...
--> If you would CARE to read any of my other posts you would know that i am NOT a fan of the NGE. I am perfectly aware of its failings, but also of its possibilities. Go ahead and wallow in your self pity for a wasted year of your life playing SWG. I enjoyed the time in SWG because of my friends. I will cancel if I dont enjoy it anymore. I have played less recently because I lost many in-game friends. But that does not make me visit forums just to heap my anger on others about a game I am no longer playing. All your flaming wont change the magazines review rating.
Originally posted by Erillion Originally posted by Scorpes Who's tio say out of those few hundred some arent writers to some third string gaming magazine in a small market? This "third string" gaming magazine is selling more copies than 95 % of the english magazines and this "small market" of PC games in german speaking countries (some 80 million people) is outgrowing the US market in many areas (which is more focused on console games). Try again. Have fun Erillion
Yeah your right, 80million german speaking people (whistling) Guess the 2billion orientals and the north/south american market they must be the small market.
.. i feel that players are the root of the problem along with some greed from SoE...
However the jedi forum had more posts then any other profession forum by a long mile and i think this is where SoE felt(and probably right too) that people more intrested in jedis outweighted those who cared about fixes and storyline....
I think what the above poster said is totally right. The game at launch should have been fixed first and foremost vefore anything else. But players themselves were willing to ignore everything just to see one aspect of the game be released to them and made super powerful .
I am sorry but even now by surfing this site,the offical forum and actual encounter with "elder jedis" ingame(i post a nice story on this later it was funny ) i come to the conclusion that many people are most pissed with fact that jedis are regular starter class and not as powerful as before then the actual changes ingame.And their "hard work" down the drain.
Very well said hercules. I played the game at launch and really loved it, but it became evident after a few months that it was going to turn into a mass jedi grindathon and I found myself in a very small minority of players who had hoped that the game would be more respectful of the source material. However, I understood that SOE had to cater for the wishes of the majority of players and so I quit. I really can't fault SOE for what they did - the two pre-NGE reviews that have been quoted here listed the lack of jedi as a starter class as a major fault of the original game, whilst Jedi is the only class to have its own mmorpg.com board and there are far more posts on the Jedi board on the official forums than those of all the other classes put together. Little wonder that SOE came to the conclusion that players wanted the "Luke" experience rather than the "Uncle Owen" experience. SOE have repeatedly been accused of not listening to their playerbase - if only! Now they've got exactly what they deserve, and the result is such a rampant jedi-fest that I wonder why they haven't reduced the number of professions down to 1.
Originally posted by azhrarn Nearly anyone can be bought. And they asked two vets? Versus how many noobs? One also has to wonder the age, sex and gamestyle of the one vet journalist. I'm almost willing to wager that it's under 25, male with a preferance for Tribes and Quake style games with a heavy background in console titles. Not to cast aspersions on young guys who enjoy shooters, but they're just not representative of the mmorpg community in general -- and swg is being marketed as an mmorpg.
Honestly, where does "sex" fit in that? I doubt if he was a female that the review would be better.
Yeah your right, 80million german speaking people (whistling) Guess the 2billion orientals and the north/south american market they must be the small market.
How many of those 2 billion orientals are buying game magazines ? Explain why the GNP of 80 million german speaking people is equal or higher than those of the 2 billion orientals (depends which Asian countries you chose, e.g. China and India). Explain why the computer gaming market of the north/south american market is not significantly larger than that of the German speaking countries and not really larger than the European market.
Not to mention that SWG is not available to those 2 billion orientals anymore, especially not since SWG closed the Japanese servers. They COULD play on US or European servers, but I am quite sure few do.
Originally posted by Erillion In summary their opinion was : Necessary changes , exciting quests, buggy.
Changes were not necessary, fixing the original game was. But they didn't do that did they? They had to spend precious resources and time on PUB 9, JTL, CURB, ROTW and ToOW instead of making the game they initially released work. That is why SWG failed.
There is some truth in this but also after playing the nge for a few days now and speaking to some people i used to know that are still in it i feel that players are the root of the problem along with some greed from SoE.
However the jedi forum had more posts then any other profession forum by a long mile and i think this is where SoE felt(and probably right too) that people more intrested in jedis outweighted those who cared about fixes and storyline.
Thus entered "the return of the jedi" era .Bug fixes grinded to a almost total halt.Classes other then jedi were totally ignored .Storyline down the drain.In came hologram grinding and tbh i think the population picked up then despite the fact the overall game and mechanics was going down the drain.
Jedis lost skill reset on death and safely travelled around theed in large numbers(all thanks to again whining).
I am sorry but even now by surfing this site,the offical forum and actual encounter with "elder jedis" ingame(i post a nice story on this later it was funny ) i come to the conclusion that many people are most pissed with fact that jedis are regular starter class and not as powerful as before then the actual changes ingame.And their "hard work" down the drain.
I disagree with your opinion about Jedi doing all the whining. It was the other classes that did a hell of a lot more whining about things being unbalanced in game. The ones who wanted their professions to be more uber than Jedi.
Jedi should be stronger than all classes that's how it is in Star Wars.
Anyway, people whined about the combat system til SOE finally added the CU. People were still unhappy hence the NGE. If SOE/LucasArts would have left the game in tact as it was pre CU and just worked on bugs, game content and the like things would have been fine. Anyone who has kids knows that once you give into the whining it's all over.
It's a mistake to relegate Erillion to fanboi status simply because he points out that there are still some misguided media sources who are printing favorable reviews of SWG. I'm certainly not going to verbally beat him for showing us a source whose opinion flies in the face of what I know to be true. I don't even chastise him for leaving his account running, though it rewards a company I have come to hate and is another slice of reinforcement for what I feel is deplorable corporate behavior.
He still has a thread of hope for the game. Just because I don't doesn't give me the right to take his away, even if doing so would further my interests. If you want to beat up fanbois, find someone like Doomsayer or Anarchyart, who seem to take a big chunk of their enjoyment in the fact that it annoys or takes the fun from others and who can't say anything civilized to someone who holds a differing opinion of the game than they hold.
Originally posted by Scorpes The fan boy population has dramatically declined. Without naming names, when the CU was rolling out, this topic was as active as it is today. Difference was there were a slew more fanboys instead of really just the one or two now. Many times, people who were against the CU and SOE, we told them, it will happen to you. The incompetance level of SOE just hassent affected you yet but it will be coming. They continued with their blind faith and now those same people have either dissapeared, no longer boosting the game, or have finally seen the light and give SOE all the "bad" credit that it deserves. People are finally getting the clue that we've been telling them. Its not "if" SOE screws them over, its "when".
I really wish you'd quit labelling anyone who likes a game as a freaking fanboy. All it does is make you look unintelligent and beligerant. People can like a game and point out it's positive aspects without being 'fanboys'. Or would you like to be labelled as a 'hater' or 'troll'??
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I disagree with your opinion about Jedi doing all the whining. It was the other classes that did a hell of a lot more whining about things being unbalanced in game. The ones who wanted their professions to be more uber than Jedi. And I disagree with you. I did a little informal info gathering, and I think the only profession that came CLOSE to the amount of whining Jedi did was Bounty Hunter. Jedi should be stronger than all classes that's how it is in Star Wars. Really? How'd you figure that? Boba Fett killed Jedi. His Father Jango Fett killed jedi (both bounty hunters). The Mandalorians used to kill Jedi all the time and they were arguably just Commando's. Storm Troopers killed Jedi and they weren't even Commando's. Han Solo blasted a Sith Lord out of the "sky" (or could have if he persued it) and Han was just a smuggler, so where are you getting Jedi are all powerful? This is where most of the Jedi whining came from. They felt their accomplishment of grinding 32 professions or mindlessly grind XP was a bigger contribution and much more difficult than all the people they needed to accomplish what they did. They thought that they were "Better" than the Weaponsmith and Armorsmiths that supplied them with their gear while they grinded. They thought they were "better" than the entertainers and doctors that healed their wounds when they were grinding. I've done some XP grinding, when the NGE was coming out, I wanted to make sure all my toons were level 80. I took an Image Designer from level 0 to level 80 in less than a day. I've run a successful business. I was a DE for most of my time is SWG, and I can tell you, running a successful CRAFTING business is 50 times harder than grinding XP Anyway, people whined about the combat system til SOE finally added the CU. People were still unhappy hence the NGE. If SOE/LucasArts would have left the game in tact as it was pre CU and just worked on bugs, game content and the like things would have been fine. Anyone who has kids knows that once you give into the whining it's all over. Personally I liked the CU, but yes people whine even if you give them exactly what they've asked for, I do agree with that.
I really wish you'd quit labelling anyone who likes a game as a freaking fanboy. All it does is make you look unintelligent and beligerant. People can like a game and point out it's positive aspects without being 'fanboys'. Or would you like to be labelled as a 'hater' or 'troll'??
You're assuming I care what you think of me, or what even others think of me. My place in life isnt to earn a hypocrites respect. Where are your posts deploring all those people who call people who disagree with the game "haters" "whiners" "crybabies" etc etc? Not only that how many times have you personally used the term hater or troll or some other derogatory term?
How many of those 2 billion orientals are buying game magazines ?
Game magazine subscriptions do not constitute what a game market it. Also where do you have numbers backing up any of your claims that this magazine is the holy grail of gaming magazines. What numbers in sales or distribution allows you to make a claim that it is larger than 95% of english gaming magazines?
Explain why the GNP of 80 million german speaking people is equal or higher than those of the 2 billion orientals (depends which Asian countries you chose, e.g. China and India).
What does GDP GNP, PTA, AAA, or any other acronym have to do with gaming markets. Just because one country has a higher per capita income does not mean they play or buy more video games. Where is the evidence of this? If you are making the claim that Germany is the larger gaming market which it sure looks like your doing then you are unbelievably out of touch with reality.
Explain why the computer gaming market of the north/south american market is not significantly larger than that of the German speaking countries and not really larger than the European market.
Fine then prove it, what is the gaming market value in germany, then what is it to all the German speaking people. I will gladdly compare that with English speaking countries and lets see who comes out on top? We are also talking about your magazine specifically, my original statement was your magazine is in a small-market. All of Europe does not count if the magazine is in Deutch, i bet far more europeans cant speak German then speak it.
Its a link to a reuters article and its stating the US gaming market is 10bil, not including any other countries, throw in all the english speaking countries like you want to include all german speaking and then lets see the actual difference. And if your going to get real numbers desrcribing Germanys gaming market in sales get them from a reputable news source. Not some kid with a website making numbers and claims up like you do.
Not to mention that SWG is not available to those 2 billion orientals anymore, especially not since SWG closed the Japanese servers. They COULD play on US or European servers, but I am quite sure few do. So in short .. whats your point ? Have fun Erillion
Let me refresh your memory or perhaps dispel your fantasy, i never said asians play SWG, the original argument was when you claimed that Germany is not a small market. I used the Asian market as an example of scale, since your insisting Germanys 80million people is a big market, comparable to other big markets like Asia. So whats my point, you've proven nothing, used no figures, just made claims without backing anything up, not to mention you introduce arguments that have no place in this since it doesnt contribute to what the point of contention is.
Reviewers and game related zines have always had a history of saying good things to get paid or the get benefits from the game creator... much like the movie industry reviews. ITs all crap. The community has spoken and NGE suxxors just like Smedley, Torres, and Lucas.
"SWG was a world, now it's just a game" -adamrk-
"When the game was good, you didn't have to ask where the population was, because it was everywhere. When the game was good you didn't have to ask which server had population, because they all did. When the game was good you didn't have to beg friends to give it a try, because they were already playing. " - Salty Pete
Originally posted by Scorpes Game magazine subscriptions do not constitute what a game market it. --> Is it not ? Then please tell me who the hundredthousands to millions of people are who are buying computer gaming magazines every month. Must be the home gardeners needing paper for their flowers. Also where do you have numbers backing up any of your claims that this magazine is the holy grail of gaming magazines. What numbers in sales or distribution allows you to make a claim that it is larger than 95% of english gaming magazines? --> http://www.dooyoo.de/zeitung/pc-games/273217/ >>>
PC Games war bis vor kurzem die meist gekaufte Spielezeitschrift Europas, wurde aber mittlerweile von GameStar überholt.
>>> PC Games was until recently the best selling computer gaming magazine in Europa, however it has recently been surpassed by GameStar . Explain why the GNP of 80 million german speaking people is equal or higher than those of the 2 billion orientals (depends which Asian countries you chose, e.g. China and India). What does GDP GNP, PTA, AAA, or any other acronym have to do with gaming markets. Just because one country has a higher per capita income does not mean they play or buy more video games. --> But oh yes, it does ! More income = more money for entertainment = more games. Plenty of documentation for that available online and a no brainer. Dirt farmers in Bangladesh are not known as the most heavy gaming customers. Where is the evidence of this? If you are making the claim that Germany is the larger gaming market which it sure looks like your doing then you are unbelievably out of touch with reality. --> Can you read ? I say the german speaking countries (not Germany alone) is a large gaming market relative to the US, with the European market in total easily rivaling that of the US. --> Here is a quote from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_games#Sales >>>>> The four largest markets for computer and video games are the United States, Japan, Canadaand the United Kingdom. Other significant markets include Spain, Germany, South Korea, France, and Italy. Chinais not considered a significant market, most likely because an estimated 95% of video games sold in the country are pirated. [4] >>>>>
>>>snip <<<< Its a link to a reuters article --> Oh, you mean as valid as your link to an article called "Court Blocks Illinois Video Game Sales Regulation " which mentions in a sentence an obscure figure of 10 bil without referring to the source of that number. Very reputable indeed :-) BTW Reuters is a news agency and they reported about the COURT case, so you can be sure they did not check those numbers as their error "rivals Hollywood box office" shows (see error explained in Wikipedia).
Let me refresh your memory or perhaps dispel your fantasy, i never said asians play SWG, the original argument was when you claimed that Germany is not a small market. --> May I refer you again to the quote about the largest computer gaming markets above. --> In summary : a) Gamestar is the largest european gaming magazine. b) German speaking countries together are amongst the largest markets for computer and video games. --> Have fun, Erillion
Originally posted by Erillion Originally posted by HiGHPLaiNS to the original poster...
84% .. if thats what makes you play that piece of crap game, go for it. --->Too late. I AM playing since summer 2003 and have seen it all. I got a hundred other reviews that say that game is a not even 50%. Just read the New York Times. --> Go ahead and list the 100. Dont make things up. I guess I have read all the available reviews (inlcuding those from "christian" magazines online), and of course also the NYT. And THAT one is NOT rating the NGE at 50- %. In fact it does not even give it a rating at all, but discussing the EFFECTS of such radical changes. Try to spout less hate rhetoric and more facts, will ya ?! Enjoy the kiddy game! That game is for fanbois anyways now. I thought CU was bad.SWG shouldnt be declared a MMORPG anymore. Just a wanna be... --> If you would CARE to read any of my other posts you would know that i am NOT a fan of the NGE. I am perfectly aware of its failings, but also of its possibilities. Go ahead and wallow in your self pity for a wasted year of your life playing SWG. I enjoyed the time in SWG because of my friends. I will cancel if I dont enjoy it anymore. I have played less recently because I lost many in-game friends. But that does not make me visit forums just to heap my anger on others about a game I am no longer playing. All your flaming wont change the magazines review rating. --> Have fun, Erillion
Like I said, just plain and true, different strokes for different folks.
Erillion if thats what makes you play that piece of crap game, go for it.
Game magazine subscriptions do not constitute what a game market it.
--> Is it not ? Then please tell me who the hundredthousands to millions of people are who are buying computer gaming magazines every month. Must be the home gardeners needing paper for their flowers.
Simply stating "my country sells alot of magazines means im a big market" is meaningless, unless you have some kind of formula backing up the direct or even indirect impact of magazine distribution to game sales this is purely an opinion with no coroborating evidence to support it.. Also just because one country might have a 1:30 in revenue between magazine/game sales, that proves nothing as all markets are different. The 1:30 ratio in Germany would not apply to every gaming market as its different for each country.
-->PC Games was until recently the best selling computer gaming magazine in Europa, however it has recently been surpassed by GameStar .
You would be right but for one thing. Facts get in the way, you did not say Gamestar was the best selling Eurpean Magazine, you stated and I quote
"This "third string" gaming magazine is selling more copies than 95 % of the english magazines"
Simply stated your claim was that it was outselling 95% of english magazines, you made no mention of in which country or region it pertained to.
--> But oh yes, it does ! More income = more money for entertainment = more games. Plenty of documentation for that available online and a no brainer. Dirt farmers in Bangladesh are not known as the most heavy gaming customers.
Take 2 people, one makes 100k a year other makes 30k a year, but the person who makes more money doesnt like games but the person who makes 30k a year is a fanatic. Under your rules he who makes more should spend more on gaming. Well that same principle goes for Nations and Countries as well, Koreans are diehard gaming, its a national pastime practically, I bet they spend far more per dollar on gaming than you Germans do. Erillion, simply stated its called economics, without an actual mathematical formula that can be translated into proving what percentage of a countries GDP goes towards gaming you've proven nothing. Especially considering that many countries with lower GDP's but with a higher percentage going to gaming can leave a much larger footprint than a higher GDP nation.
--> Can you read ? I say the german speaking countries (not Germany alone) is a large gaming market relative to the US, with the European market in total easily rivaling that of the US.
Quote "Explain why the GNP of 80 million german speaking people"
You are not saying Europe, you are saying German people, now you want to include Europe so then you win. Wrong, My original comment about a small market was referring to German market. You're the one that wants to drag the kitchen sink and every German expatriot, dead ancestors, and anyone else to prove your right. What is a hardcore figure of game sales for the 80million German speaking people? Dont just use your force powers imagining a number.
I'm done arguing with you, keep your nationalistic pride about how powerfull your gaming market is. Unless I see most mmorpg companies making a game just for germans like they do for koreans, japanese, southeast asians, north americans, its a small market to me.
Originally posted by hercules .. i feel that players are the root of the problem along with some greed from SoE... However the jedi forum had more posts then any other profession forum by a long mile and i think this is where SoE felt(and probably right too) that people more intrested in jedis outweighted those who cared about fixes and storyline.... I think what the above poster said is totally right. The game at launch should have been fixed first and foremost vefore anything else. But players themselves were willing to ignore everything just to see one aspect of the game be released to them and made super powerful . I am sorry but even now by surfing this site,the offical forum and actual encounter with "elder jedis" ingame(i post a nice story on this later it was funny ) i come to the conclusion that many people are most pissed with fact that jedis are regular starter class and not as powerful as before then the actual changes ingame.And their "hard work" down the drain.
Very well said hercules. I played the game at launch and really loved it, but it became evident after a few months that it was going to turn into a mass jedi grindathon and I found myself in a very small minority of players who had hoped that the game would be more respectful of the source material. However, I understood that SOE had to cater for the wishes of the majority of players and so I quit. I really can't fault SOE for what they did - the two pre-NGE reviews that have been quoted here listed the lack of jedi as a starter class as a major fault of the original game, whilst Jedi is the only class to have its own mmorpg.com board and there are far more posts on the Jedi board on the official forums than those of all the other classes put together. Little wonder that SOE came to the conclusion that players wanted the "Luke" experience rather than the "Uncle Owen" experience. SOE have repeatedly been accused of not listening to their playerbase - if only! Now they've got exactly what they deserve, and the result is such a rampant jedi-fest that I wonder why they haven't reduced the number of professions down to 1.
Again another player who knows the reality.
If SoE keeps things as they are with no single bug fix but make the jedi overpowered again you see the rush into the game and praises.
While many here will not admit it the one big blow given to them is the jedi is no better then any of the other 7 combat classes now and thats what bothers them.
But SoE went for 3 possible options 1)remove all combat class but the jedi- be a lame mmorpg if it happened
2)leave things as they was and risk losing people unwilling to grind jedi or who did not touch SWG but wanted to be jedi but heard of the grind
3)go as the nge is and make jedi a starter class which was still overpowered.Then who will play anything but jedi if this happened?
So yes they are gambling and might lose or win.It is not their first gamble they lost the roleplayers for the jedi crowd and probably gained as they see jedi as the key to population gain thus the jedi for all now.
Just like we got sidelined 2 years ago for the current(or should i say last) crop of players who wanted an over over powered class aka jedi to flood the game .This people are getting side stepped too.
Atm testing this nge and have to say in a few days i see loads of people running around who move and act like newbies.So probably 3rd generation crowd now
So players take your blame too as should SoE.
Got a review i plan to write at end of week but i am not staying in SWG just trying it died for me 2 years ago but reason i stated before.
I'm done arguing with you, keep your nationalistic pride about how powerfull your gaming market is. Unless I see most mmorpg companies making a game just for germans like they do for koreans, japanese, southeast asians, north americans, its a small market to me.
Nationalistic pride ? LOL. Try to remove your blinders next time.
Nice withdrawal. You wanted links .. I gave you links. You wanted facts ... I gave you facts. You wanted YOUR truth .. that I did not give.
Anyway ... I only started this thread to report a rather surprising review, not to discuss the economics of the gaming industry. Some here may not agree with the 84 % rating, but it shows the other side of the coin .... voices in the press that say change in SWG was necessary and change has been introduced and needs to be watched with interest , for better or worse.
Originally posted by Erillion Originally posted by Scorpes I'm done arguing with you, keep your nationalistic pride about how powerfull your gaming market is. Unless I see most mmorpg companies making a game just for germans like they do for koreans, japanese, southeast asians, north americans, its a small market to me. Nationalistic pride ? LOL. Try to remove your blinders next time. Nice withdrawal. You wanted links .. I gave you links. You wanted facts ... I gave you facts. You wanted YOUR truth .. that I did not give. Anyway ... I only started this thread to report a rather surprising review, not to discuss the economics of the gaming industry. Some here may not agree with the 84 % rating, but it shows the other side of the coin .... voices in the press that say change in SWG was necessary and change has been introduced and needs to be watched with interest , for better or worse. Have fun Erillion
You are delusional, you didnt bring any facts you just changed the argument suddenly when it wasnt going your way threw up some links with your New arguments and then conclude how right you are.
You have learned well from Smedley, Torres, and the other nameless suits that have lied, deceived and misdirected its players from the truth. You seriously need to spend some quality time at dictionary.com so you can understand the meaning of the word facts. Just because facts and fiction both start with an f, they dont mean the same thing, educate yourself and find out the difference.
Originally posted by Firebird1 One question here that I think has been overlooked. Is anyone in America going to read review? --> I have no idea if Gamestar is available in the US. My guess = no. Is there a PC gaming magazine published by IDG in the US and whats its name ? I see GamePro on a list, but that is more for consoles, no ? Basically is Gamestar available in this country? --> Check here http://www.idg.com/www/IDGProducts.nsf/PubViewByTitle?OpenForm ( main publications in the US seem to be PC World, Mac World and GamePro. Some 200+ magazines all over the world.) Dispite what everyone thinks, is this just a move to try and get more customers in Germany and nothing more? --> the magazine has discussed more and more current and upcoming MMORPGs recently, with a heavy bias on WoW. So I would think this was not a specific effort to get more customers for SOE. The SWG review has been announced before, but was delayed when NGE hit - so that the review more accurately reflects the new system. My guess is ... it was not specifically planned as a marketing bit. The magazine arrived after New Year, so it would also be a bad marketing strategy to publish something like that AFTER the X-mas shopping spree. --> Personally I think this 84 % are too high for NGE in its current form. As I said in my original post, I was surprised about that rating. Ok three questions..... --> Have fun, Erillion
PS: Hmm ... "Star Wars Insider" also published by IDG. *** ponder *** Do they know more than we do ??
You are delusional, you didnt bring any facts you just changed the argument suddenly when it wasnt going your way threw up some links with your New arguments and then conclude how right you are.
You have learned well from Smedley, Torres, and the other nameless suits that have lied, deceived and misdirected its players from the truth. You seriously need to spend some quality time at dictionary.com so you can understand the meaning of the word facts. Just because facts and fiction both start with an f, they dont mean the same thing, educate yourself and find out the difference.
The best sign for a lack of arguments ... a poster starts with personal insults such as "delusional" and "learning from liars and deceivers".
Another good sign ... the poster does ignore information presented in previous posts because they dont support his point of view. He also declares HIS personal view of things posted as THE ultimate point of view.
And the third sign ... the poster has declared a discussion ended and continues his ramblings because he cant help himself - not to mention that this behaviour has happened before.
Originally posted by Scorpes Let me refresh your memory or perhaps dispel your fantasy, i never said asians play SWG, the original argument was when you claimed that Germany is not a small market. I used the Asian market as an example of scale, since your insisting Germanys 80million people is a big market, comparable to other big markets like Asia. So whats my point, you've proven nothing, used no figures, just made claims without backing anything up, not to mention you introduce arguments that have no place in this since it doesnt contribute to what the point of contention is.
Neither have you but that isn't anything new.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Scorpes Originally posted by Erillion Originally posted by Scorpes I'm done arguing with you, keep your nationalistic pride about how powerfull your gaming market is. Unless I see most mmorpg companies making a game just for germans like they do for koreans, japanese, southeast asians, north americans, its a small market to me. Nationalistic pride ? LOL. Try to remove your blinders next time. Nice withdrawal. You wanted links .. I gave you links. You wanted facts ... I gave you facts. You wanted YOUR truth .. that I did not give. Anyway ... I only started this thread to report a rather surprising review, not to discuss the economics of the gaming industry. Some here may not agree with the 84 % rating, but it shows the other side of the coin .... voices in the press that say change in SWG was necessary and change has been introduced and needs to be watched with interest , for better or worse. Have fun Erillion
You are delusional, you didnt bring any facts you just changed the argument suddenly when it wasnt going your way threw up some links with your New arguments and then conclude how right you are.
You have learned well from Smedley, Torres, and the other nameless suits that have lied, deceived and misdirected its players from the truth. You seriously need to spend some quality time at dictionary.com so you can understand the meaning of the word facts. Just because facts and fiction both start with an f, they dont mean the same thing, educate yourself and find out the difference.
You know if you actually quit insulting people for 5 minutes and actually threw out some facts people might actually hear what you have to say once in awhile Scorpes. You haven't changed at all though, just alot of hate that you insist on pushing on to everyone else.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Comments
84% .. if thats what makes you play that piece of crap game, go for it.
--->Too late. I AM playing since summer 2003 and have seen it all.
I got a hundred other reviews that say that game is a not even 50%. Just read the New York Times.
--> Go ahead and list the 100. Dont make things up. I guess I have read all the available reviews (inlcuding those from "christian" magazines online), and of course also the NYT. And THAT one is NOT rating the NGE at 50- %. In fact it does not even give it a rating at all, but discussing the EFFECTS of such radical changes. Try to spout less hate rhetoric and more facts, will ya ?!
Enjoy the kiddy game! That game is for fanbois anyways now. I thought CU was bad.
SWG shouldnt be declared a MMORPG anymore. Just a wanna be...
--> If you would CARE to read any of my other posts you would know that i am NOT a fan of the NGE. I am perfectly aware of its failings, but also of its possibilities. Go ahead and wallow in your self pity for a wasted year of your life playing SWG. I enjoyed the time in SWG because of my friends. I will cancel if I dont enjoy it anymore. I have played less recently because I lost many in-game friends. But that does not make me visit forums just to heap my anger on others about a game I am no longer playing. All your flaming wont change the magazines review rating.
--> Have fun, Erillion
Yeah your right, 80million german speaking people (whistling) Guess the 2billion orientals and the north/south american market they must be the small market.
Honestly, where does "sex" fit in that? I doubt if he was a female that the review would be better.
How many of those 2 billion orientals are buying game magazines ? Explain why the GNP of 80 million german speaking people is equal or higher than those of the 2 billion orientals (depends which Asian countries you chose, e.g. China and India). Explain why the computer gaming market of the north/south american market is not significantly larger than that of the German speaking countries and not really larger than the European market.
Not to mention that SWG is not available to those 2 billion orientals anymore, especially not since SWG closed the Japanese servers. They COULD play on US or European servers, but I am quite sure few do.
So in short .. whats your point ?
Have fun
Erillion
Changes were not necessary, fixing the original game was. But they didn't do that did they? They had to spend precious resources and time on PUB 9, JTL, CURB, ROTW and ToOW instead of making the game they initially released work. That is why SWG failed.
There is some truth in this but also after playing the nge for a few days now and speaking to some people i used to know that are still in it i feel that players are the root of the problem along with some greed from SoE.
However the jedi forum had more posts then any other profession forum by a long mile and i think this is where SoE felt(and probably right too) that people more intrested in jedis outweighted those who cared about fixes and storyline.
Thus entered "the return of the jedi" era .Bug fixes grinded to a almost total halt.Classes other then jedi were totally ignored .Storyline down the drain.In came hologram grinding and tbh i think the population picked up then despite the fact the overall game and mechanics was going down the drain.
Jedis lost skill reset on death and safely travelled around theed in large numbers(all thanks to again whining).
I am sorry but even now by surfing this site,the offical forum and actual encounter with "elder jedis" ingame(i post a nice story on this later it was funny ) i come to the conclusion that many people are most pissed with fact that jedis are regular starter class and not as powerful as before then the actual changes ingame.And their "hard work" down the drain.
I disagree with your opinion about Jedi doing all the whining. It was the other classes that did a hell of a lot more whining about things being unbalanced in game. The ones who wanted their professions to be more uber than Jedi.
Jedi should be stronger than all classes that's how it is in Star Wars.
Anyway, people whined about the combat system til SOE finally added the CU. People were still unhappy hence the NGE. If SOE/LucasArts would have left the game in tact as it was pre CU and just worked on bugs, game content and the like things would have been fine. Anyone who has kids knows that once you give into the whining it's all over.
It's a mistake to relegate Erillion to fanboi status simply because he points out that there are still some misguided media sources who are printing favorable reviews of SWG. I'm certainly not going to verbally beat him for showing us a source whose opinion flies in the face of what I know to be true. I don't even chastise him for leaving his account running, though it rewards a company I have come to hate and is another slice of reinforcement for what I feel is deplorable corporate behavior.
He still has a thread of hope for the game. Just because I don't doesn't give me the right to take his away, even if doing so would further my interests. If you want to beat up fanbois, find someone like Doomsayer or Anarchyart, who seem to take a big chunk of their enjoyment in the fact that it annoys or takes the fun from others and who can't say anything civilized to someone who holds a differing opinion of the game than they hold.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
I really wish you'd quit labelling anyone who likes a game as a freaking fanboy. All it does is make you look unintelligent and beligerant. People can like a game and point out it's positive aspects without being 'fanboys'. Or would you like to be labelled as a 'hater' or 'troll'??
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
[quote]Originally posted by Elnator
I really wish you'd quit labelling anyone who likes a game as a freaking fanboy. All it does is make you look unintelligent and beligerant. People can like a game and point out it's positive aspects without being 'fanboys'. Or would you like to be labelled as a 'hater' or 'troll'??
You're assuming I care what you think of me, or what even others think of me. My place in life isnt to earn a hypocrites respect. Where are your posts deploring all those people who call people who disagree with the game "haters" "whiners" "crybabies" etc etc? Not only that how many times have you personally used the term hater or troll or some other derogatory term?
Originally posted by Erillion
How many of those 2 billion orientals are buying game magazines ?
Game magazine subscriptions do not constitute what a game market it. Also where do you have numbers backing up any of your claims that this magazine is the holy grail of gaming magazines. What numbers in sales or distribution allows you to make a claim that it is larger than 95% of english gaming magazines?
Explain why the GNP of 80 million german speaking people is equal or higher than those of the 2 billion orientals (depends which Asian countries you chose, e.g. China and India).
What does GDP GNP, PTA, AAA, or any other acronym have to do with gaming markets. Just because one country has a higher per capita income does not mean they play or buy more video games. Where is the evidence of this? If you are making the claim that Germany is the larger gaming market which it sure looks like your doing then you are unbelievably out of touch with reality.
Explain why the computer gaming market of the north/south american market is not significantly larger than that of the German speaking countries and not really larger than the European market.
Fine then prove it, what is the gaming market value in germany, then what is it to all the German speaking people. I will gladdly compare that with English speaking countries and lets see who comes out on top? We are also talking about your magazine specifically, my original statement was your magazine is in a small-market. All of Europe does not count if the magazine is in Deutch, i bet far more europeans cant speak German then speak it.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1896587,00.asp
Its a link to a reuters article and its stating the US gaming market is 10bil, not including any other countries, throw in all the english speaking countries like you want to include all german speaking and then lets see the actual difference. And if your going to get real numbers desrcribing Germanys gaming market in sales get them from a reputable news source. Not some kid with a website making numbers and claims up like you do.
Not to mention that SWG is not available to those 2 billion orientals anymore, especially not since SWG closed the Japanese servers. They COULD play on US or European servers, but I am quite sure few do.
So in short .. whats your point ?
Have fun
Erillion
Let me refresh your memory or perhaps dispel your fantasy, i never said asians play SWG, the original argument was when you claimed that Germany is not a small market. I used the Asian market as an example of scale, since your insisting Germanys 80million people is a big market, comparable to other big markets like Asia. So whats my point, you've proven nothing, used no figures, just made claims without backing anything up, not to mention you introduce arguments that have no place in this since it doesnt contribute to what the point of contention is.
"SWG was a world, now it's just a game" -adamrk-
"When the game was good, you didn't have to ask where the population was, because it was everywhere. When the game was good you didn't have to ask which server had population, because they all did. When the game was good you didn't have to beg friends to give it a try, because they were already playing. " - Salty Pete
--->Too late. I AM playing since summer 2003 and have seen it all.
I got a hundred other reviews that say that game is a not even 50%. Just read the New York Times.
--> Go ahead and list the 100. Dont make things up. I guess I have read all the available reviews (inlcuding those from "christian" magazines online), and of course also the NYT. And THAT one is NOT rating the NGE at 50- %. In fact it does not even give it a rating at all, but discussing the EFFECTS of such radical changes. Try to spout less hate rhetoric and more facts, will ya ?!
Enjoy the kiddy game! That game is for fanbois anyways now. I thought CU was bad.SWG shouldnt be declared a MMORPG anymore. Just a wanna be...
--> If you would CARE to read any of my other posts you would know that i am NOT a fan of the NGE. I am perfectly aware of its failings, but also of its possibilities. Go ahead and wallow in your self pity for a wasted year of your life playing SWG. I enjoyed the time in SWG because of my friends. I will cancel if I dont enjoy it anymore. I have played less recently because I lost many in-game friends. But that does not make me visit forums just to heap my anger on others about a game I am no longer playing. All your flaming wont change the magazines review rating.
--> Have fun, Erillion
Like I said, just plain and true, different strokes for different folks.
Erillion if thats what makes you play that piece of crap game, go for it.
Have a Nice Day..
Game magazine subscriptions do not constitute what a game market it.
--> Is it not ? Then please tell me who the hundredthousands to millions of people are who are buying computer gaming magazines every month. Must be the home gardeners needing paper for their flowers.
Simply stating "my country sells alot of magazines means im a big market" is meaningless, unless you have some kind of formula backing up the direct or even indirect impact of magazine distribution to game sales this is purely an opinion with no coroborating evidence to support it..
Also just because one country might have a 1:30 in revenue between magazine/game sales, that proves nothing as all markets are different. The 1:30 ratio in Germany would not apply to every gaming market as its different for each country.
-->PC Games was until recently the best selling computer gaming magazine in Europa, however it has recently been surpassed by GameStar .
You would be right but for one thing. Facts get in the way, you did not say Gamestar was the best selling Eurpean Magazine, you stated and I quote
"This "third string" gaming magazine is selling more copies than 95 % of the english magazines"
Simply stated your claim was that it was outselling 95% of english magazines, you made no mention of in which country or region it pertained to.
--> But oh yes, it does ! More income = more money for entertainment = more games. Plenty of documentation for that available online and a no brainer. Dirt farmers in Bangladesh are not known as the most heavy gaming customers.
Take 2 people, one makes 100k a year other makes 30k a year, but the person who makes more money doesnt like games but the person who makes 30k a year is a fanatic. Under your rules he who makes more should spend more on gaming. Well that same principle goes for Nations and Countries as well, Koreans are diehard gaming, its a national pastime practically, I bet they spend far more per dollar on gaming than you Germans do.
Erillion, simply stated its called economics, without an actual mathematical formula that can be translated into proving what percentage of a countries GDP goes towards gaming you've proven nothing. Especially considering that many countries with lower GDP's but with a higher percentage going to gaming can leave a much larger footprint than a higher GDP nation.
--> Can you read ? I say the german speaking countries (not Germany alone) is a large gaming market relative to the US, with the European market in total easily rivaling that of the US.
Quote "Explain why the GNP of 80 million german speaking people"
You are not saying Europe, you are saying German people, now you want to include Europe so then you win. Wrong, My original comment about a small market was referring to German market. You're the one that wants to drag the kitchen sink and every German expatriot, dead ancestors, and anyone else to prove your right.
What is a hardcore figure of game sales for the 80million German speaking people? Dont just use your force powers imagining a number.
I'm done arguing with you, keep your nationalistic pride about how powerfull your gaming market is. Unless I see most mmorpg companies making a game just for germans like they do for koreans, japanese, southeast asians, north americans, its a small market to me.
Again another player who knows the reality.
If SoE keeps things as they are with no single bug fix but make the jedi overpowered again you see the rush into the game and praises.
While many here will not admit it the one big blow given to them is the jedi is no better then any of the other 7 combat classes now and thats what bothers them.
But SoE went for 3 possible options 1)remove all combat class but the jedi- be a lame mmorpg if it happened
2)leave things as they was and risk losing people unwilling to grind jedi or who did not touch SWG but wanted to be jedi but heard of the grind
3)go as the nge is and make jedi a starter class which was still overpowered.Then who will play anything but jedi if this happened?
So yes they are gambling and might lose or win.It is not their first gamble they lost the roleplayers for the jedi crowd and probably gained as they see jedi as the key to population gain thus the jedi for all now.
Just like we got sidelined 2 years ago for the current(or should i say last) crop of players who wanted an over over powered class aka jedi to flood the game .This people are getting side stepped too.
Atm testing this nge and have to say in a few days i see loads of people running around who move and act like newbies.So probably 3rd generation crowd now
So players take your blame too as should SoE.
Got a review i plan to write at end of week but i am not staying in SWG just trying it died for me 2 years ago but reason i stated before.
Nationalistic pride ? LOL. Try to remove your blinders next time.
Nice withdrawal. You wanted links .. I gave you links. You wanted facts ... I gave you facts. You wanted YOUR truth .. that I did not give.
Anyway ... I only started this thread to report a rather surprising review, not to discuss the economics of the gaming industry. Some here may not agree with the 84 % rating, but it shows the other side of the coin .... voices in the press that say change in SWG was necessary and change has been introduced and needs to be watched with interest , for better or worse.
Have fun
Erillion
You are delusional, you didnt bring any facts you just changed the argument suddenly when it wasnt going your way threw up some links with your New arguments and then conclude how right you are.
You have learned well from Smedley, Torres, and the other nameless suits that have lied, deceived and misdirected its players from the truth. You seriously need to spend some quality time at dictionary.com so you can understand the meaning of the word facts. Just because facts and fiction both start with an f, they dont mean the same thing, educate yourself and find out the difference.
One question here that I think has been overlooked.
Is anyone in America going to read review?
Basically is Gamestar available in this country?
Dispite what everyone thinks, is this just a move to try and get more customers in Germany and nothing more?
Ok three questions.....
You have learned well from Smedley, Torres, and the other nameless suits that have lied, deceived and misdirected its players from the truth. You seriously need to spend some quality time at dictionary.com so you can understand the meaning of the word facts. Just because facts and fiction both start with an f, they dont mean the same thing, educate yourself and find out the difference.
The best sign for a lack of arguments ... a poster starts with personal insults such as "delusional" and "learning from liars and deceivers".
Another good sign ... the poster does ignore information presented in previous posts because they dont support his point of view. He also declares HIS personal view of things posted as THE ultimate point of view.
And the third sign ... the poster has declared a discussion ended and continues his ramblings because he cant help himself - not to mention that this behaviour has happened before.
*** shakes head sadly ***
Have fun,
Erillion
Neither have you but that isn't anything new.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
You are delusional, you didnt bring any facts you just changed the argument suddenly when it wasnt going your way threw up some links with your New arguments and then conclude how right you are.
You have learned well from Smedley, Torres, and the other nameless suits that have lied, deceived and misdirected its players from the truth. You seriously need to spend some quality time at dictionary.com so you can understand the meaning of the word facts. Just because facts and fiction both start with an f, they dont mean the same thing, educate yourself and find out the difference.
You know if you actually quit insulting people for 5 minutes and actually threw out some facts people might actually hear what you have to say once in awhile Scorpes. You haven't changed at all though, just alot of hate that you insist on pushing on to everyone else.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World