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MMORPG - Repetition, Lack of Involvement
Scottc
Member Posts: 680
I just can't understand why anyone would play a game like WoW. I've been playing MMORPG's since around 99 when Asheron's Call came out (my first), and Asheron's Call was an interesting game. It provided me with a nice level of involvement, as in I didn't watch my character fight, I was the one fighting. If I was a melee, I had control, I could choose if I want to attack their head, legs, or torso, and then I could say how fast I wanted to swing, whether it be quick attacks, or slow powerful blows. I had the similar option as an archer. The mage provided me with an amazing level of involvement though, instead of selecting a target and clicking attack, and pressing a few buttons to cast spells, I was completely in control. There was no automation, I to actually select all my spells, there was no auto melee attack. I thoroughly enjoyed this game, playing from a melee to an archer to a mage. It had me hooked for five years.
Lets talk about todays MMORPG's. World of Warcraft. Every single class has special abilities. You can not defeat a monster that is more than 5-10 levels higher than you. Player skill does not exist in this game. I tried this game out, I did not like it. I felt like I had no control, I want to play a game, not watch my character play it. Why does a mage have melee attacks? He is a caster, he casts spells, his staff wasn't made for hitting people, it was made for casting magic. Another thing about WoW, you can't dodge magic, you can resist, but no amount of movement will stop it from hitting you. So basically in WoW, whoever has the best skills and items wins. Your character is the one fighting, not you. Having no ability to affect the outcome of a battle outside your characters skills and items makes the game feel repetitive, and as i've said before, as if you are not involved in the game at all.
I make games that people like to play, rather than look at.
I want to know why you enjoy a game in which only your characters skills and equipment affect the outcome of a fight. Perhaps gaming is not for you, I would suggest a good movie. Gaming is about interactivity, not watching. For those of you who enjoy WoW, get the fuck out of the gaming market, stop buying games, i'm tired of game development companies making movies, I want real games.
Comments
Have you ever tried to lead a guild through MC or to kill onyxia, the skill and teamwork required is Emence (sp?). It can take months to get a guild good enough to get to ragnarous everyweek and then requires a few more months to have everyone ready to actually kill ragnaros, and onec you do that you start on Black wing lair.
If you have ever been on Vent or Teamspeak when a group of people kill ragnaros for the first time even if you weren't part of the group just hearing it shows you the feeling of achivemeant and community.
When your guild is trying to complete MC, BWL, Ony or any of thoes raid instances your not only watching the movie, your living it.
Edit
Your right WoW is not everything a MMORPG could be, I would rather have more control over how a battle goes like in fallout or my interpritation of how the Roma Victor combat system will be. Though ofcourse battle system isn't everything and a good community can be the thing which keeps a MMO afloat, unfortunately with WoW you have to get lucky with a guild to find this, but if you do the game is wonderful.
The mobs on WoW are abit predictable and yes the grind to 60 is a easy one. Duels and PvP battles are very effected about playing skill, and yes you can choose how to fight a battle, insted of picking to attack Head, chest, arm or leg you can choose to attack Mana, be defensive, Keep distance, all out attack or change armor for spell resistance insted of damage.
You're right.
The only thing I can thank WoW for is getting me into MMO's. That led me to Dark Age of Camelot. And I haven't looked back since then. More user involvement is one of the reasons I like Camelot so much more.
=============================
It all seems so stupid
It makes me want to give up
But why should I give up
When it all seems so stupid
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</OBAMA>
Player interaction is one of the tiny bits of involvement with WoW. There isn't much to screaming for someone to cast debuff X on super big monster, and screaming for a heal or some buff. Creating a good guild or beating some really big creature in a raid instance does not make up for how boring and lackluster the game is. You proved my point perfectly, you said "Its a movie that you are living", basically a movie with extremely limited interaction. That is not what games are meant to be, especially MMOGs.
Yeah endgame in WoW was a joke. Onyxia was easy, Molten Bore was boring. Yeah getting to Rag the first time, exciting. Second time, less so. Third time. Yawnsville. It was the hardly the must pleasing instance to look at and the thought of spending 4+ months trying to get 8 items just so I can spend another 4+ months to get others whilst competing with my friends killed it for me.
Anyway, back to topic. Have you tried SWG now I hear you actually point your gun at the enemy instead of the floor, ceiling or yourself. Now that's skill!
It seems EVERY post I read lately someone is saying..."Why can't MMORPGs be more like [insert first mmorpg they ever played here]".
I think in nearly every case people love their first MMORPG more than any other. It's a "thing".
(My first "mmorpg" was CoH (and WoW a few days later and GW beta test at the same time), so I actually don't have any real favorite, though GW and WoW are IMHO the "best".)
Sorry about the OTP...I return you to your regularly scheduled whining
I heard they switched to full MMOFPS, I might just try it, if only it were original though, you know, not based in the star wars universe. A brand new world...
By the way, if you are interested what I do right now as I can not find a quality game that is involving, I play old games. I play games that I enjoyed when I was much younger, such as Stronghold (not firefly studios stronghold, an older one), Ultimate Domain (genesia), Quake Team Fortress, and Quake 2 Gloom (AMAZING!). Until I find a good game, I will continue to play these. The market has been shit for sometime now, finding a good game is quite hard. When I am not playing these games, I "troll" forums, make informative posts, question things, and program.
The OP is just saying that the user interaction in WoW is low compared to some other games. Try a game like Camelot, or as the OP suggested AC. You'd be quite surprised how different their interaction is.
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</OBAMA>
I never said that any mmorpg has to be like asheron's call, I listed specific traits that most MMORPG's follow which makes them boring.
Some people like RTS, some like FPS. Same thing in a MMOG. Some people want key mashing twitch combat, others want more tactical combat.
There's more to high end combat in wow then just pushing a button and watching your toon win a fight. Take two warriors with all the same gear into an instance, one never loses agro, the other can't keep it for the life of them. Something on the player side has to be done differently, and that's the player skill you say is lacking. The same goes for every class in that game. Two people with the same gear can do vastly different damage/healing/tanking/ect. Knowing how to play your class makes a huge difference in every game, wow included.
If you like more player reaction skill based combat that's cool, there are games out there like that. I don't think that means a different style that you don't like makes a game bad....and I think a few million other people would agree with me
QFT.
I suggest you check out Phantasy Star Universe, youll be able to choose what part of the enemy you hit (on medium to larger enemies) with several types of weapons and weapon combinations (20+ weapons, not including combination like sword and dagger, sword and gun etc), youll also get to choose a special skill(s) and element(s) for your weapon to add more customization and control. Lastly, youll get to control whether you do hard hitting slow attack or fast medium attacks and youll also get to control how many times you attack.
If you dont want to wait for PSU, Phantasy Star Online Blue Burst is out and it offers controlled gameplay such as fast attacks slow attacks how many times you attack etc. , but PSU will offer far more emersion.
http://phantasystaruniverse.com
http://www.psobb.com
Have fun
Just on the border of your waking mind
There lies another time
Where darkness and light are one,
And as you tread the halls of sanity,
You feel so glad to be unable to go beyond.
I have a message from another time...
Axis Eleven
I heard they switched to full MMOFPS, I might just try it, if only it were original though, you know, not based in the star wars universe. A brand new world...
Yeah, the combat is very FPS like now. In PvP, you can make your self hard to hit by moving. The same applies in PvE, if you move around you won't get hit as much. You still have your specials, but they're not done in a typical MMO way, you select it by pressing the hotkey, and then use it using your right mouse button when you want it. Also differs from most other games in that all but 2 planets are sandbox maps. The Star Wars part is unique to the MMO world tho
You can try it for your self at www.tryswg.com
I find it amazingly ironic that someone writing yet another anti-WoW post is complaining about repetition, dear god people !!! Get over it already.
And since you asked for it in this pathetic guise for a WoW slug fest, here's your enlightenment, and get ready now because it's super complicated ok.
People... Play.... WoW... Because *drum roll* IT'S FUN.
WoW has nothing to do with super complicated combat, in depth fighting systems, difficult to understand pvp rule sets. It's pure, simple and fun. That's it, no great crazy mystery behind it.
Here's another really big reason why people like it, it's accesible. Almost anyone can jump into WoW and within 5 to 10 minutes, have a really good idea on what their doing. Now !!! That may not be your thing, and it's certainly not mine but to many mnay people, thats exactly what they needed to get into an MMO. On top of that, it looks good on almost any computer, meaning just because you friend has a super computer, doesn't mean he or she is having a btter time then you.
So get off your elitist high horse would yah ? WoW is a wonderful game for many wonderful people for many wonderful reasons, just because you don't see it, that does not give you the right to think less of those that do.
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As a hard core WoW player for the last 12 months I agree with you that it's fun while leveling. It's the end game content I'm having problems with. I'm going to check out DAOC and see if it has possibilities.
-Hunt'n
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Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
Current MMO:
Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
I remember being soo hyped up for WoW and then the first three days I was killing the same spiders...(Don't know how I stuck up with it for three days
).
~Greatness~
Currently Playing:
Nothing
Lets have a look at its PvP, thats one of the reasons I play MMOG's, however if the gameplay is good and there is no PvP, thats good as well. So lets see... You have the best gear and skills, you win in a PvP fight... Hmm... On the PvP servers, you can fight others players, if you consent to a duel? wtf is that? Its a PvP server damnit! You don't even die in a duel! You basically have forced kingdom vs kingdom PvP, and you get nothing. Theres no risk/reward for PvP in it. You run in, you live, you get nothing, you die, you lose nothing. It is carebear PvP to the max, and yet people still cry about corpse campers. If you want to PvP you have to go to some arena and play stupid minigames that are jacked off of great quake 2 mods, like Jailbreak. PvP in WoW is a joke.
If I am playing a good PvP game, in a fight it will get my heart pumping, i'll be sweating, and it'll be great when its over, and even greater if i'm alive and looting their corpse.
As a hard core WoW player for the last 12 months I agree with you that it's fun while leveling. It's the end game content I'm having problems with. I'm going to check out DAOC and see if it has possibilities.
-Hunt'n
Leveling is not fun.... Boring useless grind... But I you have to finish your first MMORPG to figure that out.
Sorry Scottc, but Shae is right...the game is fun!! Just because YOU didn't enjoy it for whatever reason, does NOT mean it's not fun. (I found it fun...for a couple of months, and when I didn't anymore I stopped playing...that's what a GAME is for me...it's not a job...it's not a lifestyle...it's a damn game!)
3 to 5 million people (who are still playing) obviously find it FUN (or at least some sort of challenge, fulfillment, social-network...something...that keeps them playing)...
JUST coz you don't find it so...don't make it not so...
(EDIT: Oh, and ragging shae for spelling 2 words wrong, one with just the letters swapped around and the other where she left 1 letter out (both obviously typos that anyone can make) IS THE DEFINITION of ELITIST. Plus you're just perpetuating the same crap that all other WoW-haters are spouting, that people who like WoW are unschooled babies. What a load!! You're not just ELITIST, you're a crowd-following sheep-elitist...pathetic!
)
So what other MMOG's have you played? Its like sex, if you've only had it bad, you don't know what its like good, and you probably are thinking thats as good as it gets.
That's just it though Scott, you are being Elitist and your being incredibly rude to the people that really do enjoy playing WoW. And you want to start calling me young ? You just turned a perfectly valid response to an obviously provoking post by now attacking me personally, and on spelling of all things.
Like I said, it may not be for me, I tried it, played it for a little while and decided it wasn't. Does that make the game bad, absolutely no way. Same goes for you ! You tried (or I'm hoping you did at least with this whole rant thing your on), you didn't like it, thats ok, it's fine, we GET IT !!!
That being said, it doesn't mean that it's not a good game, or that it doesn't make many many people happy. What gives you the right to say: "that game sucks because I say so !". I'm sorry but you don't have that right, no one here does. Accept for maybe Enigma, I bow down to his godlyness
This is a discussion forum, and it's what we do here, we share our ideas, our passions and our oppinions, your oppinion is that WoW isn't good and many people are willing to look at your side here but if you can't even bother to look at it both ways, well then your not only being Elitist but your also being incredibly ignorant.
How about being happy for the peope having a really good time playing WoW ? What happened to seeing and or hearing about a gamer just enjoying a game and getting really jazzed up because they like it so much. Are you seriously so unhappy with your own station in life that you can't muster even the slightest bit of good will for your own fellow gamers.
Well whatever, run your tangent however way you like but don't you dare assume you know me in any shape, way, manner or form just because you can't see past your own self inflated head balled up in that giant sized ego of yours.
Oh and by the way, if you want to start insulting me, you better give it a much better go because all you did there was come off looking like a spoiled 5 year old that just lost his teddy.
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CoH - Boring and repetitive, GW - Fun, quick, terrible community, WoW - Fun, Interesting, but eventually got bored, DaoC - Really don't know what the fuss is about, old and terribly clunky, EVE - Oh boy, don't get me started on how crap EVE is, Anarchy Online - I really don't like hard sci-fi settings in MMOs (even though I love sci-fi in books/movies/tv), and it wasn't any fun either, EQ2 - liked this one for about a month or two, more refined than WoW but somehow not as fun, CoV - Exactly the same as CoH yes, I said it, exactly the same!, EQ - not the original sadly, but all I could see was a long grind stretching out before me and didn't continue (I was doing the trial), Ryzom - Terrible, grindy, boring, no quests, SWG - trialled the combat changes version, NEXT!, Runescape - OK, this one doesn't even count does it...hehe. And lastly a number of betas which I can't comment on as they're still running, but one which I stress tested recently is quite enjoyable and looks to have potential.
And then there's all the free-slash-korean-style MMOs that I think are woeful and would likely never try another one.
OK, so there's what I've played, I think it's a fair sampling don't you? I know I haven't played the often-touted UO and Shadowbane...but honestly I really don't like PvP so I doubt I would have liked them. The only one I think I would have benefitted by trying is Asheron's Call, might try that out right now as a matter of fact. (Well, once I finish Neverwinter Nights
By the way, WoW is the perfect example of watering MMORPG's down today.
OK, if you're such a MMO guru, what other MMOs have you played? "Enlighten me"
(BTW, your profile says you're 17, Shae's says 19...so she's older than you, and most definitely better schooled...and without a doubt I too am older than you, and it's impossible, at 17, that you could have more schooling than I do. There, I can be elitist too
)
/sigh
Fine, lets do it your way. Ok everyone, pay attention.
"From now on, World of Warcraft must be known to all as a bad game. Nope nope, sorry, thats just the way it is and thats how you have to think about it, talk about it and write about it from now on. The reason you ask ?? Oh well, because Scottc said so thats why, that should be enough for ou.
I'm sorry little girl, what did you say? You like playing WoW ? Well sorry, unless you adhere to the strict rules set down by Scott and or approved of by him then it's a bad game and thus... you suck. "
All good now Scott ? Right... thought so.
Anyone else care to try ?
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