Originally posted by shae Originally posted by Scottc I've played it to level 60 being told it will get good, it never did. Btw, yes it does, the people who play WoW have never played a decent MMOG in their life, or they have nothing better to do. Many people own multiple WoW accounts. Many people play just so they can ebay items and characters, many are even chinese gold farmers. I feel sorry for the people who are enjoying WoW, they have yet to experience something better in their life. I am being ignorant? I spent the time to get to level 60 and try out the end game, every moment of it was boring. I'm saying it sucks and giving reasons. By the way, I was not insulting you, I simply wanted to know your age as you mispelled quite a bit. It seems that young kids, poor spelling, and WoW go hand in hand.By the way, WoW is the perfect example of watering MMORPG's down today. /sigh Fine, lets do it your way. Ok everyone, pay attention. "From now on, World of Warcraft must be known to all as a bad game. Nope nope, sorry, thats just the way it is and thats how you have to think about it, talk about it and write about it from now on. The reason you ask ?? Oh well, because Scottc said so thats why, that should be enough for ou. I'm sorry little girl, what did you say? You like playing WoW ? Well sorry, unless you adhere to the strict rules set down by Scott and or approved of by him then it's a bad game and thus... you suck. " All good now Scott ? Right... thought so. Anyone else care to try ?
Originally posted by hadz It seems EVERY post I read lately someone is saying..."Why can't MMORPGs be more like [insert first mmorpg they ever played here]". I think in nearly every case people love their first MMORPG more than any other. It's a "thing". (My first "mmorpg" was CoH (and WoW a few days later and GW beta test at the same time), so I actually don't have any real favorite, though GW and WoW are IMHO the "best".) Sorry about the OTP...I return you to your regularly scheduled whining
I can't disagree - I admit it, my first was my fav (really wish EA would bring ENB back ) - Kind of like your first love I guess...
Originally posted by Scottc Originally posted by hadz Originally posted by Scottc So what other MMOG's have you played? Its like sex, if you've only had it bad, you don't know what its like good, and you probably are thinking thats as good as it gets. CoH - Boring and repetitive, GW - Fun, quick, terrible community, WoW - Fun, Interesting, but eventually got bored, DaoC - Really don't know what the fuss is about, old and terribly clunky, EVE - Oh boy, don't get me started on how crap EVE is, Anarchy Online - I really don't like hard sci-fi settings in MMOs (even though I love sci-fi in books/movies/tv), and it wasn't any fun either, EQ2 - liked this one for about a month or two, more refined than WoW but somehow not as fun, CoV - Exactly the same as CoH yes, I said it, exactly the same!, EQ - not the original sadly, but all I could see was a long grind stretching out before me and didn't continue (I was doing the trial), Ryzom - Terrible, grindy, boring, no quests, SWG - trialled the combat changes version, NEXT!, Runescape - OK, this one doesn't even count does it...hehe. And lastly a number of betas which I can't comment on as they're still running, but one which I stress tested recently is quite enjoyable and looks to have potential. And then there's all the free-slash-korean-style MMOs that I think are woeful and would likely never try another one. OK, so there's what I've played, I think it's a fair sampling don't you? I know I haven't played the often-touted UO and Shadowbane...but honestly I really don't like PvP so I doubt I would have liked them. The only one I think I would have benefitted by trying is Asheron's Call, might try that out right now as a matter of fact. (Well, once I finish Neverwinter Nights
While asheron's call still has the same mechanics when it comes combat as it did in the beginning, it has changed quite a bit for the worst. GW is just as bad as WoW. I don't see what fun you could have in WoW. Never played DaoC but heard it was good from former AC players. I think EVE truly is a step backwards in MMOG evolution. You don't even have direct control over your ship, you just tell it where to go and it goes there. AO had a combat system as bad as WoW. After trying EQ, i don't think i'd ever want to try EQ2. You are correct, runescape is garbage. The only good MMOG's out there were Planetside, Asheron's Call, and Earth & Beyond. Now what are three characteristics of these games? Freedom. You weren't limited by any retarded game mechanics, you felt like you had some control in the online world, and PvP was in all of them.
Well as much as I would love to embrase your IDEAS as facts, I cant.. its called personal opinion and by the sounds of it, many of ours clash with yours. WoW is a fun game, 5 million subscribers prove that. Eve a step back... wow, I dont like the game, but I do know from playing it that it has one of the most complex and interesting combat systems out there... It may not be twitch, but its it requires some reflexes and a lot of organization and planning. You see, my favorite colour is Orange... Personally I hate the colour purple.. but wait.. my friends favorite colour is purple.. She must be wrong! Cause purple is a bad colour... damn people thinking their opinions matter.
Sorry Scottc, I have to be the bearer of bad news, but the world doesnt revolve around you.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Originally posted by Indo I can't disagree - I admit it, my first was my fav (really wish EA would bring ENB back ) - Kind of like your first love I guess...
My first real mmog was SWG.... I seem to remember screwing my first love, not getting screwed by her :P
Originally posted by Scottc I am on no elitist high horse, WoW is most definately not fun.
I beg to differ. I think you are very much presenting yourself as an elitest. You don't like World of Warcraft. Congratulations. Many, many people do. To say that there is no skill involved and the only thing seperating the winners from the losers is what gear they have is not only laughable, it makes me wonder whether or not you have actually even played the game. I don't like grinds, and in fact I really didn't like mmorpgs all that much until world of warcraft, even thought I've played and beta tested dozens. Why is that? No, it's not because I think the graphics are amazing. I also don't care for loot. I don't care what armor I am wearing as long as it isn't detrimental to my survival. I never go out of my way to buy or farm armor, and yet I still manage to defeat people with superior gear several levels above me in duels. As a druid.
Are you sure you've played on a PVP server in wow? You claim the only way to fight the opposing faction is via duels, which is untrue. On a pvp server you can fight any opponent in most areas.
I was actually surprised that you claimed to not be an elitest, after all that you said. I think it's entirely evident that you, in fact, are. Please stop acting as if your opinions are fact. And, as my final thought, why are you so very upset with world of warcraft to the point that you would start this thread? You honestly think your "argument" is going to convince people to stop playing wow and go play the game you choose? You played all the way to level 60. If the game was so horrible, why not quit earlier? Surely, according to your rants, stopping would've put an end to all the anguish you were experiencing.
Originally posted by Scottc Leveling is not fun.... Boring useless grind... But I you have to finish your first MMORPG to figure that out.
Grow up a bit my 17 year old friend, and learn to not take yourself so seriously.
Originally posted by Scottc I just can't understand why anyone would play a game like WoW. I've been playing MMORPG's since around 99 when Asheron's Call came out (my first), and Asheron's Call was an interesting game. It provided me with a nice level of involvement, as in I didn't watch my character fight, I was the one fighting. If I was a melee, I had control, I could choose if I want to attack their head, legs, or torso, and then I could say how fast I wanted to swing, whether it be quick attacks, or slow powerful blows. I had the similar option as an archer. The mage provided me with an amazing level of involvement though, instead of selecting a target and clicking attack, and pressing a few buttons to cast spells, I was completely in control. There was no automation, I to actually select all my spells, there was no auto melee attack. I thoroughly enjoyed this game, playing from a melee to an archer to a mage. It had me hooked for five years.Lets talk about todays MMORPG's. World of Warcraft. Every single class has special abilities. You can not defeat a monster that is more than 5-10 levels higher than you. Player skill does not exist in this game. I tried this game out, I did not like it. I felt like I had no control, I want to play a game, not watch my character play it. Why does a mage have melee attacks? He is a caster, he casts spells, his staff wasn't made for hitting people, it was made for casting magic. Another thing about WoW, you can't dodge magic, you can resist, but no amount of movement will stop it from hitting you. So basically in WoW, whoever has the best skills and items wins. Your character is the one fighting, not you. Having no ability to affect the outcome of a battle outside your characters skills and items makes the game feel repetitive, and as i've said before, as if you are not involved in the game at all.I make games that people like to play, rather than look at.I want to know why you enjoy a game in which only your characters skills and equipment affect the outcome of a fight. Perhaps gaming is not for you, I would suggest a good movie. Gaming is about interactivity, not watching. For those of you who enjoy WoW, get the fuck out of the gaming market, stop buying games, i'm tired of game development companies making movies, I want real games.
Mmm, yep. WoW is for those who are new to mmogs, or got suckered in because a friend or two played it (my case).
Mmm, yep. WoW is for those who are new to mmogs, or got suckered in because a friend or two played it (my case).
Don'tcha love how WoW bashers always spout the same trite comments and never include an ounce of reason (or explanation) in their posts. Makes me wonder what they're trying to accomplish.
(I mean, I used to bash EVE, mainly because of the elitist attitudes that EVE-players evinced, but I always gave plenty of reasons for my complaints about the game. I don't know why people have to bash a game just because it's popular. Hell, WoW's not even that "simple" or beginner-ish, if you really want to get into it there are plenty of systems and methods of play that would keep people occupied experimenting with, many more than some other MMOs I've played. EDIT: Just because it's easy to pick up, play, and get into, doesn't make it simplistic and dumbed down; in fact it's a huge accomplishment to make something that is rather deep (for want of a better word), when studied, and make it so easy to glide into.)
Originally posted by hadz Originally posted by Nierro Mmm, yep. WoW is for those who are new to mmogs, or got suckered in because a friend or two played it (my case). Don'tcha love how WoW bashers always spout the same trite comments and never include an ounce of reason (or explanation) in their posts. Makes me wonder what they're trying to accomplish.
How do you go about making a hater post vrs what will probably be the biggest money making MMOG of all time, and no matter how many times they say " this game will be the wow killer" or " I give wow a year and it will be gone " it still seems to be doing as good or better then every other MMOG on the market.
Reason and rational thinking sure wont do it, so....you're left with what you see in this thread.
WoW is still adding new servers, you don't do that in a game where more people are leaving then joining.
Originally posted by hadz Originally posted by Nierro Mmm, yep. WoW is for those who are new to mmogs, or got suckered in because a friend or two played it (my case). Don'tcha love how WoW bashers always spout the same trite comments and never include an ounce of reason (or explanation) in their posts. Makes me wonder what they're trying to accomplish. (I mean, I used to bash EVE, mainly because of the elitist attitudes that EVE-players evinced, but I always gave plenty of reasons for my complaints about the game. I don't know why people have to bash a game just because it's popular. Hell, WoW's not even that "simple" or beginner-ish, if you really want to get into it there are plenty of systems and methods of play that would keep people occupied experimenting with, many more than some other MMOs I've played. EDIT: Just because it's easy to pick up, play, and get into, doesn't make it simplistic and dumbed down; in fact it's a huge accomplishment to make something that is rather deep (for want of a better word), when studied, and make it so easy to glide into.)
People that fancy themselves superior to the majority of people (usually as a jerusalem-complex-style coping mechanism) dislike things BECAUSE they're popular, and then struggle to rationalize why. You see it with music especially, but also here with MMO's. WoW MUST be bad because so many people like it.
Originally posted by Scottc I just can't understand why anyone would play a game like WoW. I've been playing MMORPG's since around 99 when Asheron's Call came out (my first), and Asheron's Call was an interesting game. It provided me with a nice level of involvement, as in I didn't watch my character fight, I was the one fighting. If I was a melee, I had control, I could choose if I want to attack their head, legs, or torso, and then I could say how fast I wanted to swing, whether it be quick attacks, or slow powerful blows. I had the similar option as an archer. The mage provided me with an amazing level of involvement though, instead of selecting a target and clicking attack, and pressing a few buttons to cast spells, I was completely in control. There was no automation, I to actually select all my spells, there was no auto melee attack. I thoroughly enjoyed this game, playing from a melee to an archer to a mage. It had me hooked for five years. Lets talk about todays MMORPG's. World of Warcraft. Every single class has special abilities. You can not defeat a monster that is more than 5-10 levels higher than you. Player skill does not exist in this game. I tried this game out, I did not like it. I felt like I had no control, I want to play a game, not watch my character play it. Why does a mage have melee attacks? He is a caster, he casts spells, his staff wasn't made for hitting people, it was made for casting magic. Another thing about WoW, you can't dodge magic, you can resist, but no amount of movement will stop it from hitting you. So basically in WoW, whoever has the best skills and items wins. Your character is the one fighting, not you. Having no ability to affect the outcome of a battle outside your characters skills and items makes the game feel repetitive, and as i've said before, as if you are not involved in the game at all. I make games that people like to play, rather than look at. I want to know why you enjoy a game in which only your characters skills and equipment affect the outcome of a fight. Perhaps gaming is not for you, I would suggest a good movie. Gaming is about interactivity, not watching. For those of you who enjoy WoW, get the fuck out of the gaming market, stop buying games, i'm tired of game development companies making movies, I want real games.
well, maybe because it is a Role Playing Game. you play a role. i can be a small fat guy, with glasses, bald and a bitch, but while playing i can be the most educated, most deadly archer on the game. it doesnt matter if in real life i need 3 pairs of glasses just to see something, or if i am not able to jump more than 20 cm. on the game, what matters are the skills of my character. and that is why i play an rpg game.
same as with any other game. when i play FIFA, i can do a lot of driblings a cool things with ronaldinho or zidane, even though i may not be able to do them in real life. that is what computer games are about.
so, in a FPS, it matters your speed and coordination, but on rpg should matter the skills your character has.
how on hearth you want to take into account your own skills while playing a mage? well, maybe you are a real life caster, but i doubt it.
I'm amazed. WoW appears to me a game that is a little cuter than a few of the other games, and a lot better than Runescape. I wouldn't be bothered to reach level 60 (although Scottc did explain why he bothered: People say that's when it gets fun - and then it simply didn't).
But saying such things as WoW is bad because it is too easy,l too simple and straightforward. I cannot say if it is or not, and if it is, I'll most likely find it boring.
But hey... I like a good movie. And there's practically no challenge at all once you get to 'play'.
What I'm saying is: Challenge isn't the only thing that makes a game. If WoW isn't challenging, then that doesn't mean its bad, or wrong. And you know... If I enjoy a simple game of solitaire that doesn't mean I'm a beginner card player who's never touched anything else either.
It is fully possible to enjoy a game like that. I doubt I would, as I have very specific requirements, and because I am waiting for the game that will be better (but probably not more popular or populated) than all other games.
The future: Adellion Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants) Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens) Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
Sorry, but saying that playing WoW doesn't require skills is plain BS and demonstrates that you did not play the game well enough to cast a valid criticism.
Certainly the itemization in WoW is terribly high. In fact it's big part of the game, to get better items that cannot be ebayed and require you to be there playing the actual game. I would say that player skills and items go 40-60. Also, the PvP is quite well balanced. Yes, I said it. There is not one only class/skill that can pwn all the other ones, thing that happens in other PvP oriented games (*cough*UO archers*cough*).
In my opinion, WoW's PvE >>> PvP. Because the honor farming is more tedious than the group instancing even if it becomes farming. The items you get at PvE are usually better than the ones at PvP. To enjoy WoW you need to do the 40 ppl instances with a very good raid, which obviously not everyone is able to do time and social wise. In fact, once you hit max level, WoW becomes the most hardcore MMORPG I've ever seen. but the leveling and questing can be quite nice for casual players, which makes WoW apt for both types of players.
I never had so much fun as in the first month on running Molten Core in a new formed raid. We didn't care about the items, we just wanted to kill all the bosses as fast as possible. It was CHALLENGING and FUN. And we did so, because most of us came from the PvP side (burned out by the horrible honor system) and were well skilled players. In seven weeks we cleaned from Lucy to Ragnaros (majordomo+ragnaros took 4 weeks). After this the raid went to BWL, but MC item farming was necessary and boring. I also didn't have enough time for playing so much more, so I quited the game.
Then I realized that the game I was looking forward: 1) Requires skill to play, and if you have skills playing you can actually win an older player. 2) Doesn't have strong itemization that gives absurd advantages. 3) Let's you have a life. And because of number three I went back to Quake3
Edit: What I call "player skills" are the ability to use your character more or less efficiently. Not if you can cast Fireball rank 3 or 4.
Someone who PvP's in WoW should never have heard the word "skill" in their life. Anyway... Taken from my aim profile:
"Why am I an Elitest Bastard and thrown in with the "WoW haters" group for hating World of Warcraft because it has extremely limited interaction compared to most MMOG's out there? How is this hating WoW because it is popular? How am I struggling to figure out why it sucks when I already know why it sucks?"
My problem is not with WoW, it is with everyone who plays WoW, there is a purpose behind the hate, you are harming me as a gamer of 12 years. Three million people are playing this game that I hate everything about. Now if you look at publishers today, they want to sell games that will make lots of money.
So the man in the fancy suit and nice shoes is going to say, "Hey, look at how great WoW is doing in sales. I think we should make a game thats similar to it." Thousands of other men in fancy suits leading publishing and game development companies will be saying that as well. Publishers will take a game that they think will make money, by creating games similar to other successful games. What does this mean, for me, the customer who hates World of Warcraft? It means that there will never be any MMORPG's that I, the gamer who enjoys good gameplay over beautiful graphics enjoys. There are many others like me out there who couldn't give a rats ass about graphics. We want to have freedom in a game, we have been through our infancy of gaming, we have experienced the WoW long long ago but with much worse graphics, we want complexity, we want originality, not some unoriginal MMORPG that there are hundreds of with similar gameplay and graphics. We've been there and done that. Companies are simply feeding content to newer gamers. How will the veteran gamer receive a game he or she enjoys when all the companies think WoW will make the money rather than "the veteran gamers need a game that they will enjoy". Big established companies usually release crap now, we have to rely on the indy developer community to come up with something enjoyable. Thank god for darkfall online, I would have to quit gaming if that game had never been announced.
Who's the most foolish in this scenario? The person who plays WoW and enjoys it? The person who tried WoW, didn't like it and quit soon after? The person who played WoW to level 60, decided they didn't like it and now flames people who are still having a good time? You are too young to be so bitter.
I'm glad you've found solice in the announcement of Darkfall. That announcement should keep you happy for years to come.
In my opinion the thread starter is right. You must know i didn't play many mmorpgs, but most that i played had one thing in common. You just stand there pushing your keys for your skills. For me coming from the FPS scene this is something i cannot understand why it should be fun.
After i played the ddo stresstest i knew mmorpgs could actually involve players more. the (fighting) gameplay reminded me a bit of 'Rune'. It had just what i was looking for but still i don't know if it would be fun after playing some weeks.
Maybe i'm not the person to play mmorpgs but basically they do attract me but at the end i get bored by the weak interaction in fighting.
He was probably talking to me. I might have missed dribs and drabs of what you said, but there was a lot of it and words are hard! I don't play WoW because I no longer found it interesting after a couple of months, although I really did try and like it more, too. A lot of what you say about the game, I agree with, actually. What I dislike is that you are bashing people who play a game simply because they have fun playing it. Every now and then I enjoy playing Mah-Jong solitaire. There's nothing innovative or particularly interesting about it. By your criteria, that makes me a dumbass. You ARE being an elitist as much as some others are being apologists for the major flaws in the game.
This isn't the same thing as Horizons. People haven't been lied to or scammed lik they were with Mourning. Blizzard put out a simple, easy to learn/easy to play game that millions of people enjoy. Adults play it, kids play it, entire families play it... how is that a bad thing? You seem to think that all these people who are having a good time in WoW are ruining your chances of having an interesting game developed. Why are you blaming them instead of the corporate machine that's driven only by profit? They should all quit so there's a better chance of a game YOU enjoy being made? Come on, that's just silly. Put the blame where it's deserved... on the development sheep who are looking to make the most money and don't really give a toss about what sort of un-innovative, un-creative cloned product they put out. There the ones who will copy EQ and WoW and leave us with very little choice in what we play.
Originally posted by kiers182 Have you ever tried to lead a guild through MC or to kill onyxia, the skill and teamwork required is Emence (sp?). It can take months to get a guild good enough to get to ragnarous everyweek and then requires a few more months to have everyone ready to actually kill ragnaros, and onec you do that you start on Black wing lair. If you have ever been on Vent or Teamspeak when a group of people kill ragnaros for the first time even if you weren't part of the group just hearing it shows you the feeling of achivemeant and community. When your guild is trying to complete MC, BWL, Ony or any of thoes raid instances your not only watching the movie, your living it.
Player interaction is one of the tiny bits of involvement with WoW. There isn't much to screaming for someone to cast debuff X on super big monster, and screaming for a heal or some buff. Creating a good guild or beating some really big creature in a raid instance does not make up for how boring and lackluster the game is. You proved my point perfectly, you said "Its a movie that you are living", basically a movie with extremely limited interaction. That is not what games are meant to be, especially MMOGs.
And also big problem with wow is when you doing it for months you have done 10000 times kill same mobs in same dungeons wow is boring:P
But its casual game for pve/pvp the real hardcore want more chellenge then wow.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Originally posted by shae I find it amazingly ironic that someone writing yet another anti-WoW post is complaining about repetition, dear god people !!! Get over it already. And since you asked for it in this pathetic guise for a WoW slug fest, here's your enlightenment, and get ready now because it's super complicated ok. People... Play.... WoW... Because *drum roll* IT'S FUN. WoW has nothing to do with super complicated combat, in depth fighting systems, difficult to understand pvp rule sets. It's pure, simple and fun. That's it, no great crazy mystery behind it. Here's another really big reason why people like it, it's accesible. Almost anyone can jump into WoW and within 5 to 10 minutes, have a really good idea on what their doing. Now !!! That may not be your thing, and it's certainly not mine but to many mnay people, thats exactly what they needed to get into an MMO. On top of that, it looks good on almost any computer, meaning just because you friend has a super computer, doesn't mean he or she is having a btter time then you. So get off your elitist high horse would yah ? WoW is a wonderful game for many wonderful people for many wonderful reasons, just because you don't see it, that does not give you the right to think less of those that do.
And that will be the distruction of the mmoprg market for hardcore players, wow clones will come now and all shout LONG LIVE SIMPLISTIC CASUAL PLAY gone with complex or hardcore pvp gameplay:(
5 million + play wow now so whatever we say you guys always win you just say look so many play it its goood its fun well its not fun community is terrible avarge 12year old kids who only can type caps or talk stupid and 90% community wants to play 1000 times WC SM UBRS MC ext.:P
WOW= Boring in the longrun becouse to easy and repeative gameplay.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Originally posted by shae I find it amazingly ironic that someone writing yet another anti-WoW post is complaining about repetition, dear god people !!! Get over it already. And since you asked for it in this pathetic guise for a WoW slug fest, here's your enlightenment, and get ready now because it's super complicated ok. People... Play.... WoW... Because *drum roll* IT'S FUN. WoW has nothing to do with super complicated combat, in depth fighting systems, difficult to understand pvp rule sets. It's pure, simple and fun. That's it, no great crazy mystery behind it. Here's another really big reason why people like it, it's accesible. Almost anyone can jump into WoW and within 5 to 10 minutes, have a really good idea on what their doing. Now !!! That may not be your thing, and it's certainly not mine but to many mnay people, thats exactly what they needed to get into an MMO. On top of that, it looks good on almost any computer, meaning just because you friend has a super computer, doesn't mean he or she is having a btter time then you. So get off your elitist high horse would yah ? WoW is a wonderful game for many wonderful people for many wonderful reasons, just because you don't see it, that does not give you the right to think less of those that do.
I am on no elitist high horse, WoW is most definately not fun. To say that you must be someone who has never played another game on the PC in their life. Anyone can jump into most games and figure it all out in five minutes. Some MMOG's are way too complex to figure out, some of them like that are good, and some of them suck. I'm wondering how old you are, as you mispell many things, and you seem to enjoy WoW. Another thing, when I hear about WoW, I never hear how fun it is to play, I hear about how great the graphics are. When a game is fun, everyone will talk about how great it is to play, and some good time they had in it. WoW is a joke.
Lets have a look at its PvP, thats one of the reasons I play MMOG's, however if the gameplay is good and there is no PvP, thats good as well. So lets see... You have the best gear and skills, you win in a PvP fight... Hmm... On the PvP servers, you can fight others players, if you consent to a duel? wtf is that? Its a PvP server damnit! You don't even die in a duel! You basically have forced kingdom vs kingdom PvP, and you get nothing. Theres no risk/reward for PvP in it. You run in, you live, you get nothing, you die, you lose nothing. It is carebear PvP to the max, and yet people still cry about corpse campers. If you want to PvP you have to go to some arena and play stupid minigames that are jacked off of great quake 2 mods, like Jailbreak. PvP in WoW is a joke.
If I am playing a good PvP game, in a fight it will get my heart pumping, i'll be sweating, and it'll be great when its over, and even greater if i'm alive and looting their corpse.
Originally posted by Huntn
Originally posted by shae People... Play.... WoW... Because *drum roll* IT'S FUN.
As a hard core WoW player for the last 12 months I agree with you that it's fun while leveling. It's the end game content I'm having problems with. I'm going to check out DAOC and see if it has possibilities.
-Hunt'n
Leveling is not fun.... Boring useless grind... But I you have to finish your first MMORPG to figure that out.
Your right about pvp its a joke to top, carebear but its becouse so many play on a server no problem you have 2 factions if all would do open outdoor pvp you have have plenty to wurry about and to pvp with, like on a open FFA PvP server its just that there is no penalty for dying and most go to those damn BG thats indeed just ripoff from fps shooters its BORING.
The rank 14 pvp guys are 95% just 20hours everyday hp farmers you dont need skill for pvp in BG just join groups and over and over again farm hp:P
But wow is not on pvp server only duals thast only starter ares:P
You have most areas about 90% contested areas there you can attack all from other faction when ever you want.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
If you don't like WOW, then don't touch it. just because you don't find it fun, doesn't mean its a bad or boring game. it seems you like AC, why don't you go play that instead of bashing WoW here?
People really need to find out the diffrence between oppinion and facts.
My problem is not with WoW, it is with everyone who plays WoW, there is a purpose behind the hate, you are harming me as a gamer of 12 years. Three million people are playing this game that I hate everything about. Now if you look at publishers today, they want to sell games that will make lots of money.
So the man in the fancy suit and nice shoes is going to say, "Hey, look at how great WoW is doing in sales. I think we should make a game thats similar to it." Thousands of other men in fancy suits leading publishing and game development companies will be saying that as well. Publishers will take a game that they think will make money, by creating games similar to other successful games.
...
Lol, have all music artists become clones of Madonna? Of course not. Your reason for hating people who play World of Warcraft are falacious.
If anything, I can see developers using the same server model; offering PvE, PvP, and RP hybrids. Otherwise, I believe companies will explore innovative mechanics and game play. For example, Eve Online and Pirates of the Burning Sea.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Originally posted by IcoGames Originally posted by Scottc..My problem is not with WoW, it is with everyone who plays WoW, there is a purpose behind the hate, you are harming me as a gamer of 12 years. Three million people are playing this game that I hate everything about. Now if you look at publishers today, they want to sell games that will make lots of money.So the man in the fancy suit and nice shoes is going to say, "Hey, look at how great WoW is doing in sales. I think we should make a game thats similar to it." Thousands of other men in fancy suits leading publishing and game development companies will be saying that as well. Publishers will take a game that they think will make money, by creating games similar to other successful games. ...
Lol, have all music artists become clones of Madonna? Of course not. Your reason for hating people who play World of Warcraft are falacious.
If anything, I can see developers using the same server model; offering PvE, PvP, and RP hybrids. Otherwise, I believe companies will explore innovative mechanics and game play. For example, Eve Online and Pirates of the Burning Sea.
yeah, that part made me laugh as well. the Lord of the rings movies were a big succes, so now EVERY movie will be like the Lord of the rings. Harry Potter is one of the biggest bestsellers ever, so now EVERY book will be like Harry Potter. there really won't be 1000000 WoW clones.
but Scott, seriously man....not liking a game is one thing, but HATING people who play it, just because your scared they won't make any game you like..
Ah, I almost thought this was a discussion, scottc, but I see this was trolling all along. Your amazingly contradictory statements and rambling self-righteous ranting make me wonder if you even remember what you said in your first post. Let me summarize what you've said so far. "Wow is different from every other mmo in that it is horrible, yet it is just a copy of the other MMO's I like, yet when people make games in the future, copying WoW, (i.e. also copying those games wow copied so closely) that will be bad because I don't want to play games similar to the games that I liked that WoW copied..."
right scottc, ...right.
You claim to irrationally "hate" the people who play WoW. This is another thing that gives you away as a troll and as a child. How can you rationalize not only having something against the people playing WoW, but also feeling hatred towards them as well? Don't you see that as being slightly misdirected? I wish you well on your crusade to inform MMORPG.com of how much you "hate" people that play WoW. I'm very sure much will be accomplished...
Comments
I can't disagree - I admit it, my first was my fav (really wish EA would bring ENB back
) - Kind of like your first love I guess...
Well as much as I would love to embrase your IDEAS as facts, I cant.. its called personal opinion and by the sounds of it, many of ours clash with yours.
WoW is a fun game, 5 million subscribers prove that.
Eve a step back... wow, I dont like the game, but I do know from playing it that it has one of the most complex and interesting combat systems out there... It may not be twitch, but its it requires some reflexes and a lot of organization and planning.
You see, my favorite colour is Orange... Personally I hate the colour purple.. but wait.. my friends favorite colour is purple..
She must be wrong! Cause purple is a bad colour... damn people thinking their opinions matter.
Sorry Scottc, I have to be the bearer of bad news, but the world doesnt revolve around you.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
My first real mmog was SWG.... I seem to remember screwing my first love, not getting screwed by her :P
Are you sure you've played on a PVP server in wow? You claim the only way to fight the opposing faction is via duels, which is untrue. On a pvp server you can fight any opponent in most areas.
I was actually surprised that you claimed to not be an elitest, after all that you said. I think it's entirely evident that you, in fact, are. Please stop acting as if your opinions are fact. And, as my final thought, why are you so very upset with world of warcraft to the point that you would start this thread? You honestly think your "argument" is going to convince people to stop playing wow and go play the game you choose? You played all the way to level 60. If the game was so horrible, why not quit earlier? Surely, according to your rants, stopping would've put an end to all the anguish you were experiencing.
Grow up a bit my 17 year old friend, and learn to not take yourself so seriously.
Mmm, yep. WoW is for those who are new to mmogs, or got suckered in because a friend or two played it (my case).
Don'tcha love how WoW bashers always spout the same trite comments and never include an ounce of reason (or explanation) in their posts. Makes me wonder what they're trying to accomplish.
(I mean, I used to bash EVE, mainly because of the elitist attitudes that EVE-players evinced, but I always gave plenty of reasons for my complaints about the game. I don't know why people have to bash a game just because it's popular. Hell, WoW's not even that "simple" or beginner-ish, if you really want to get into it there are plenty of systems and methods of play that would keep people occupied experimenting with, many more than some other MMOs I've played. EDIT: Just because it's easy to pick up, play, and get into, doesn't make it simplistic and dumbed down; in fact it's a huge accomplishment to make something that is rather deep (for want of a better word), when studied, and make it so easy to glide into.)
How do you go about making a hater post vrs what will probably be the biggest money making MMOG of all time, and no matter how many times they say " this game will be the wow killer" or " I give wow a year and it will be gone " it still seems to be doing as good or better then every other MMOG on the market.
Reason and rational thinking sure wont do it, so....you're left with what you see in this thread.
WoW is still adding new servers, you don't do that in a game where more people are leaving then joining.
People that fancy themselves superior to the majority of people (usually as a jerusalem-complex-style coping mechanism) dislike things BECAUSE they're popular, and then struggle to rationalize why. You see it with music especially, but also here with MMO's. WoW MUST be bad because so many people like it.
well, maybe because it is a Role Playing Game. you play a role. i can be a small fat guy, with glasses, bald and a bitch, but while playing i can be the most educated, most deadly archer on the game. it doesnt matter if in real life i need 3 pairs of glasses just to see something, or if i am not able to jump more than 20 cm. on the game, what matters are the skills of my character. and that is why i play an rpg game.
same as with any other game. when i play FIFA, i can do a lot of driblings a cool things with ronaldinho or zidane, even though i may not be able to do them in real life. that is what computer games are about.
so, in a FPS, it matters your speed and coordination, but on rpg should matter the skills your character has.
how on hearth you want to take into account your own skills while playing a mage? well, maybe you are a real life caster, but i doubt it.
ok, and once said that, i dont like wow either
I'm amazed. WoW appears to me a game that is a little cuter than a few of the other games, and a lot better than Runescape. I wouldn't be bothered to reach level 60 (although Scottc did explain why he bothered: People say that's when it gets fun - and then it simply didn't).
But saying such things as WoW is bad because it is too easy,l too simple and straightforward. I cannot say if it is or not, and if it is, I'll most likely find it boring.
But hey... I like a good movie. And there's practically no challenge at all once you get to 'play'.
What I'm saying is: Challenge isn't the only thing that makes a game. If WoW isn't challenging, then that doesn't mean its bad, or wrong. And you know... If I enjoy a simple game of solitaire that doesn't mean I'm a beginner card player who's never touched anything else either.
It is fully possible to enjoy a game like that. I doubt I would, as I have very specific requirements, and because I am waiting for the game that will be better (but probably not more popular or populated) than all other games.
The future: Adellion
Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually
Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants)
Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens)
Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
Sorry, but saying that playing WoW doesn't require skills is plain BS and demonstrates that you did not play the game well enough to cast a valid criticism.
Certainly the itemization in WoW is terribly high. In fact it's big part of the game, to get better items that cannot be ebayed and require you to be there playing the actual game. I would say that player skills and items go 40-60. Also, the PvP is quite well balanced. Yes, I said it. There is not one only class/skill that can pwn all the other ones, thing that happens in other PvP oriented games (*cough*UO archers*cough*).
In my opinion, WoW's PvE >>> PvP. Because the honor farming is more tedious than the group instancing even if it becomes farming. The items you get at PvE are usually better than the ones at PvP. To enjoy WoW you need to do the 40 ppl instances with a very good raid, which obviously not everyone is able to do time and social wise. In fact, once you hit max level, WoW becomes the most hardcore MMORPG I've ever seen. but the leveling and questing can be quite nice for casual players, which makes WoW apt for both types of players.
I never had so much fun as in the first month on running Molten Core in a new formed raid. We didn't care about the items, we just wanted to kill all the bosses as fast as possible. It was CHALLENGING and FUN. And we did so, because most of us came from the PvP side (burned out by the horrible honor system) and were well skilled players. In seven weeks we cleaned from Lucy to Ragnaros (majordomo+ragnaros took 4 weeks). After this the raid went to BWL, but MC item farming was necessary and boring. I also didn't have enough time for playing so much more, so I quited the game.
Then I realized that the game I was looking forward: 1) Requires skill to play, and if you have skills playing you can actually win an older player. 2) Doesn't have strong itemization that gives absurd advantages. 3) Let's you have a life. And because of number three I went back to Quake3
Edit: What I call "player skills" are the ability to use your character more or less efficiently. Not if you can cast Fireball rank 3 or 4.
Someone who PvP's in WoW should never have heard the word "skill" in their life. Anyway... Taken from my aim profile:
"Why am I an Elitest Bastard and thrown in with the "WoW haters" group for hating World of Warcraft because it has extremely limited interaction compared to most MMOG's out there? How is this hating WoW because it is popular? How am I struggling to figure out why it sucks when I already know why it sucks?"
My problem is not with WoW, it is with everyone who plays WoW, there is a purpose behind the hate, you are harming me as a gamer of 12 years. Three million people are playing this game that I hate everything about. Now if you look at publishers today, they want to sell games that will make lots of money.
So the man in the fancy suit and nice shoes is going to say, "Hey, look at how great WoW is doing in sales. I think we should make a game thats similar to it." Thousands of other men in fancy suits leading publishing and game development companies will be saying that as well. Publishers will take a game that they think will make money, by creating games similar to other successful games. What does this mean, for me, the customer who hates World of Warcraft? It means that there will never be any MMORPG's that I, the gamer who enjoys good gameplay over beautiful graphics enjoys. There are many others like me out there who couldn't give a rats ass about graphics. We want to have freedom in a game, we have been through our infancy of gaming, we have experienced the WoW long long ago but with much worse graphics, we want complexity, we want originality, not some unoriginal MMORPG that there are hundreds of with similar gameplay and graphics. We've been there and done that. Companies are simply feeding content to newer gamers. How will the veteran gamer receive a game he or she enjoys when all the companies think WoW will make the money rather than "the veteran gamers need a game that they will enjoy". Big established companies usually release crap now, we have to rely on the indy developer community to come up with something enjoyable. Thank god for darkfall online, I would have to quit gaming if that game had never been announced.
Who's the most foolish in this scenario? The person who plays WoW and enjoys it? The person who tried WoW, didn't like it and quit soon after? The person who played WoW to level 60, decided they didn't like it and now flames people who are still having a good time? You are too young to be so bitter.
I'm glad you've found solice in the announcement of Darkfall. That announcement should keep you happy for years to come.
In my opinion the thread starter is right. You must know i didn't play many mmorpgs, but most that i played had one thing in common.
You just stand there pushing your keys for your skills.
For me coming from the FPS scene this is something i cannot understand why it should be fun.
After i played the ddo stresstest i knew mmorpgs could actually involve players more. the (fighting) gameplay reminded me a bit of 'Rune'. It had just what i was looking for but still i don't know if it would be fun after playing some weeks.
Maybe i'm not the person to play mmorpgs but basically they do attract me but at the end i get bored by the weak interaction in fighting.
Apparently you didn't read even half of what I just wrote.
maybe i misunderstood you, but i did read your first post.
you dont like the lack of involvement, it's just the same with me. you want the fighting to be more complex, like me. Isn't that right?
He was probably talking to me. I might have missed dribs and drabs of what you said, but there was a lot of it and words are hard! I don't play WoW because I no longer found it interesting after a couple of months, although I really did try and like it more, too. A lot of what you say about the game, I agree with, actually. What I dislike is that you are bashing people who play a game simply because they have fun playing it. Every now and then I enjoy playing Mah-Jong solitaire. There's nothing innovative or particularly interesting about it. By your criteria, that makes me a dumbass. You ARE being an elitist as much as some others are being apologists for the major flaws in the game.
This isn't the same thing as Horizons. People haven't been lied to or scammed lik they were with Mourning. Blizzard put out a simple, easy to learn/easy to play game that millions of people enjoy. Adults play it, kids play it, entire families play it... how is that a bad thing? You seem to think that all these people who are having a good time in WoW are ruining your chances of having an interesting game developed. Why are you blaming them instead of the corporate machine that's driven only by profit? They should all quit so there's a better chance of a game YOU enjoy being made? Come on, that's just silly. Put the blame where it's deserved... on the development sheep who are looking to make the most money and don't really give a toss about what sort of un-innovative, un-creative cloned product they put out. There the ones who will copy EQ and WoW and leave us with very little choice in what we play.
Player interaction is one of the tiny bits of involvement with WoW. There isn't much to screaming for someone to cast debuff X on super big monster, and screaming for a heal or some buff. Creating a good guild or beating some really big creature in a raid instance does not make up for how boring and lackluster the game is. You proved my point perfectly, you said "Its a movie that you are living", basically a movie with extremely limited interaction. That is not what games are meant to be, especially MMOGs.
And also big problem with wow is when you doing it for months you have done 10000 times kill same mobs in same dungeons wow is boring:P
But its casual game for pve/pvp the real hardcore want more chellenge then wow.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
And that will be the distruction of the mmoprg market for hardcore players, wow clones will come now and all shout LONG LIVE SIMPLISTIC CASUAL PLAY gone with complex or hardcore pvp gameplay:(
5 million + play wow now so whatever we say you guys always win you just say look so many play it its goood its fun well its not fun community is terrible avarge 12year old kids who only can type caps or talk stupid and 90% community wants to play 1000 times WC SM UBRS MC ext.:P
WOW= Boring in the longrun becouse to easy and repeative gameplay.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Lets have a look at its PvP, thats one of the reasons I play MMOG's, however if the gameplay is good and there is no PvP, thats good as well. So lets see... You have the best gear and skills, you win in a PvP fight... Hmm... On the PvP servers, you can fight others players, if you consent to a duel? wtf is that? Its a PvP server damnit! You don't even die in a duel! You basically have forced kingdom vs kingdom PvP, and you get nothing. Theres no risk/reward for PvP in it. You run in, you live, you get nothing, you die, you lose nothing. It is carebear PvP to the max, and yet people still cry about corpse campers. If you want to PvP you have to go to some arena and play stupid minigames that are jacked off of great quake 2 mods, like Jailbreak. PvP in WoW is a joke.
If I am playing a good PvP game, in a fight it will get my heart pumping, i'll be sweating, and it'll be great when its over, and even greater if i'm alive and looting their corpse.
As a hard core WoW player for the last 12 months I agree with you that it's fun while leveling. It's the end game content I'm having problems with. I'm going to check out DAOC and see if it has possibilities.
-Hunt'n
Leveling is not fun.... Boring useless grind... But I you have to finish your first MMORPG to figure that out.
Your right about pvp its a joke to top, carebear but its becouse so many play on a server no problem you have 2 factions if all would do open outdoor pvp you have have plenty to wurry about and to pvp with, like on a open FFA PvP server its just that there is no penalty for dying and most go to those damn BG thats indeed just ripoff from fps shooters its BORING.
The rank 14 pvp guys are 95% just 20hours everyday hp farmers you dont need skill for pvp in BG just join groups and over and over again farm hp:P
But wow is not on pvp server only duals thast only starter ares:P
You have most areas about 90% contested areas there you can attack all from other faction when ever you want.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
If you don't like WOW, then don't touch it. just because you don't find it fun, doesn't mean its a bad or boring game. it seems you like AC, why don't you go play that instead of bashing WoW here?
People really need to find out the diffrence between oppinion and facts.
Lol, have all music artists become clones of Madonna? Of course not. Your reason for hating people who play World of Warcraft are falacious.
If anything, I can see developers using the same server model; offering PvE, PvP, and RP hybrids. Otherwise, I believe companies will explore innovative mechanics and game play. For example, Eve Online and Pirates of the Burning Sea.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Lol, have all music artists become clones of Madonna? Of course not. Your reason for hating people who play World of Warcraft are falacious.
If anything, I can see developers using the same server model; offering PvE, PvP, and RP hybrids. Otherwise, I believe companies will explore innovative mechanics and game play. For example, Eve Online and Pirates of the Burning Sea.
yeah, that part made me laugh as well. the Lord of the rings movies were a big succes, so now EVERY movie will be like the Lord of the rings. Harry Potter is one of the biggest bestsellers ever, so now EVERY book will be like Harry Potter. there really won't be 1000000 WoW clones.
but Scott, seriously man....not liking a game is one thing, but HATING people who play it, just because your scared they won't make any game you like..
well, sorry but
Ah, I almost thought this was a discussion, scottc, but I see this was trolling all along. Your amazingly contradictory statements and rambling self-righteous ranting make me wonder if you even remember what you said in your first post. Let me summarize what you've said so far. "Wow is different from every other mmo in that it is horrible, yet it is just a copy of the other MMO's I like, yet when people make games in the future, copying WoW, (i.e. also copying those games wow copied so closely) that will be bad because I don't want to play games similar to the games that I liked that WoW copied..."
right scottc, ...right.
You claim to irrationally "hate" the people who play WoW. This is another thing that gives you away as a troll and as a child. How can you rationalize not only having something against the people playing WoW, but also feeling hatred towards them as well? Don't you see that as being slightly misdirected? I wish you well on your crusade to inform MMORPG.com of how much you "hate" people that play WoW. I'm very sure much will be accomplished...