Originally posted by Munki Originally posted by Scottc Originally posted by nomadian I want to know why you enjoy a game in which only your characters skills and equipment affect the outcome of a fight. Perhaps gaming is not for you, I would suggest a good movie. Gaming is about interactivity, not watching. For those of you who enjoy WoW, get the fuck out of the gaming market, stop buying games, i'm tired of game development companies making movies, I want real games.
This is what mmorpgs are about, all WoW has done is copied that with their own gaming style.
As to game development companies making movies, this is what gaming is moving towards, no matter the genre. Gaming is not just gaming it is an experience, alike a movie.
Role Playing. This means playing the role of your character. Not raising numbers, saying LOLZ! Aggro! and all that other shit is not roleplaying. Face of Mankind is definately an MMORPG, you are supposed to play the role of your character, you are encouraged to, the world was built around this.
Wow okay, buddy. This is YOUR idea of what it meens. There is this wonderful thing PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Just because you think one way, doesnt meen that how other people think is wrong. They think differently, the sooner you learn this, the sooner you can start getting along with people. You need to seriously grow up. Cause right now, your wasting your time. You are making an idiot of yourself. This really doesnt matter on the internet, but usually people dont act completely different in the internet from how they are in real life...
And for reference, were not calling you a wow-hater... were calling you an immature elitist and to be frank -- thats worse.
I'm an elitest for hating WoW with some damn good reasons. I don't know where you get immaturity from.
Whilst I am a WoW player I know its not exactly the greatest mmorpg around, all it has done has taken existing mmorpg mechanics from games like Everquest and applied the Blizzard formula. To say its bad for the industry when games like Asherons Call attracted a mere 300k? at its peak I would say is wrong. WoW has opened up the mmorpg industry so as that more people are more willing to try mmorpgs now and its made more publishers look in this genre direction, that can't be a bad thing.
Everquest was the real trump of the mmorpg industry and unfortunately too many games have copied it rather than the other ones like UO, AC, DAoC. Every Mmorpg stands for something different, Everquest stood for adventure, immersiveness, grouping. DAoC's stood for its Realm vs Realm at the endgame, UO was about intensive pvp combat I think though not tried. WoW has gone for EQ's route of the base classes and basic gameplay. While this is not your cup of tea, it is a massive mmorpg appeal. It serves the purpose of bringing new people into the mmorpg genre but also provides Blizzard's gameplay which I find fun to an extent.
I would disagree it doesn't have skill, from playing fps and playing WoW, both require different types of skill. While you do not skill to get anywhere which maybe your main bug, it does use a certain amount of skill playing classes. A trained chimp could play a class but every person will play the class differently in both pvp and pve content. However, I know where you are coming from, reading all the WoW forums, there is a lot of discontent at the endgame which is all about 'grinding equipment' and where there is a massive gap between those that have the equipment and those that don't. Fortunately I have not reached the endgame yet, and just enjoying the path there before I will likely quit. I hope WoW sorts this, to a lot of people on the forums the endgame is a bit of a disappointment.
I'm gonna congratulate the OP for just one thing: he has proven that games (just like everything in life) are all about preference. I generally am against his points because RPGs have always been this way. From my very first RPG all the way to FFXI which I am currently playing now along with Suikoden IV for past-time I haven't seen much of interactivity in the sense he/she is describing. Stuff like aiming and attack speeds exist in other types of games. I play ALOT of fighting games and they involve alot of skill. Yet such concepts can't fit in an MMORPG because they r more low tone kinds of games. Same goes for FPSs. I enjpy the community alot in FFXI and I also enjoy the missions,quests and everything else I have to go through. Dealing with the inflation is also part of the challenges I face in the game and those r what make it exciting for me. If u r more action and skill oriented I suggest sticking with FPSs or Fighting (GunZ is pretty good ).
Just a quick post before I go off tonight, decisded to check th Gen forum out for once, never come in here because flaming occurs here more often then not, IE this thread. And well I noticed a couple of things by the end of the first page that ran throughout the thread.
1) Even though Scott had an almost decent argument, too much emotion ruined it badly, I don't think he ever was able to get a real view of his own desires within a game. Let alone his
Idea that most likely confussed him a day later. Scott; mate, just remember when posting on a forum for multiple games, never attack anything with emotion or prejudice. It'll only cause you trouble. Take your argument, throw in a rebuttle or two then spit it back out. Don't just type without thinking.
2)No matter what Scott did he got flamed. Which after a few of his posts he deserved, but some were taken a bit too far themselves. Lightenup the kid's 17 and has only been gaming for 6ish years for the 99 post or 5 years for the 12 year old post. Let him take the immaturity he actually has a right to still and grow up in the real world.
3) WoW's good/bad trait bif/buf, got quite annoying in the end reading a post which was just a re-worded form of a post maybe a page before it. I'll just say this now so I don't get flamed. WoW is one heck of a game, it took what was worked and added Warcraft to it. The idea was perfect and now Blizzard and others, have brocken a few records, made a lot of money and have finally released a patch, but you won't see me playing it, why, because I played it, found it not for me and moved on. So could the rest of these people who say WoW is bad because of this, or for that, and that its community is bad because of the 2 million or so 12-17 year old's, now when you have 5mil+ players you would usually have almost half under 18, specially with the Warcraft base that is enjoyed by all. (nothing can beat a 1 hour 3v3 War3 apocolypse level fight when your all in the same room.)
4) The bad mouthing of Eve. Why Eve? because it's different? Because it doesn't actually have an avatar? Levels? Endgame? Please leave this unique game out of arguments such as this, it isn't a step backwards in gaming, it's one to the side, one that reality is possible to bring ingame (referring to player dominated market, PvP where your losses are realistic, and in some cases almost too realistic.) but that doesn't give anyone who has played other MMORPG's the right to badmouth, it's not WoW, GW, DAoC, EQ, LA, T, R, PS, SWG, E&B or anyother game ever released, it is an MMO of its own and deserves credit for its initiative.
Now I'm off to bed to see if I can get 6 hours sleep before Work. But for now, This is a once off post, probably never to be faught for, but anything against Eve towards what I mentioned. Post it in the Eve forums and I most likly will answer. Otherwise Have a nice life everyone. Find something you enjoy and play it well. Eat cookies. And watch the movie "Avalon" it's in russian or Chek-republic language but it is one decent watch.
'Welcome to Avalon'
(can't sub to any MMO's until Jan 10 so FPS is what I do)
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
Originally posted by Scottc So basically in WoW, whoever has the best skills and items wins. Your character is the one fighting, not you. Having no ability to affect the outcome of a battle outside your characters skills and items makes the game feel repetitive, and as i've said before, as if you are not involved in the game at all.
I don't really understand your argument. Having better equipment and skills/experience should not give you an advantage? Then what would be the point of getting better equipment/skills in the first place?
As far as the game being repetitive, welcome to the world of mmorpgs. You create one that isnt repetitive and you will be a very rich man.
I get a feeling that you joined a Battlegrounds in WoW and were promptly owned by some raid guild type people with great gear so you assume that they only won because of this gear. It's true that the gear does provide a large advantage but most of the players who have the time and dedication to actually be part of a raiding guild and gain that type of equipment know the ins and outs of the game and are therefore usually better at PvP but not always. Just because you do badly with your equipment/skills doesnt mean someone else wouldnt do better with the exact same setup. Truth is mmoRPG's are more about strategy than roleplaying.
Originally posted by binjuice 3) WoW's good/bad trait bif/buf, got quite annoying in the end reading a post which was just a re-worded form of a post maybe a page before it. I'll just say this now so I don't get flamed. WoW is one heck of a game, it took what was worked and added Warcraft to it. The idea was perfect and now Blizzard and others, have brocken a few records, made a lot of money and have finally released a patch, but you won't see me playing it, why, because I played it, found it not for me and moved on. So could the rest of these people who say WoW is bad because of this, or for that, and that its community is bad because of the 2 million or so 12-17 year old's, now when you have 5mil+ players you would usually have almost half under 18, specially with the Warcraft base that is enjoyed by all. (nothing can beat a 1 hour 3v3 War3 apocolypse level fight when your all in the same room.) 4) The bad mouthing of Eve. Why Eve? because it's different? Because it doesn't actually have an avatar? Levels? Endgame? Please leave this unique game out of arguments such as this, it isn't a step backwards in gaming, it's one to the side, one that reality is possible to bring ingame (referring to player dominated market, PvP where your losses are realistic, and in some cases almost too realistic.) but that doesn't give anyone who has played other MMORPG's the right to badmouth, it's not WoW, GW, DAoC, EQ, LA, T, R, PS, SWG, E&B or anyother game ever released, it is an MMO of its own and deserves credit for its initiative.
People have a right to badmouth EVE and WoW and any other mmo, they are called opinions just like yours where you said it was not WoW, GW, DAoC, EQ and the others.
WoW is not only about equipment and items. if you think WoW requires no skill to play in PvP, then i doubt you were any good in pvp at all. its always easy to put the blame on your equipment instead of your skill as a player. what many people don't realise is that World of Warcraft is way ahead then most other pvp games. yes, back in the old games it was all about items and such, but those days are over. World of Warcraft DOES involve skill in PVP. Only the people that have too much pride to admit they are not that good at pvp say otherwise
I've PvP'd in WoW and, while it can be entertaining, it's certainly not rocket science. It's pretty much along the lines of the rest of the game... simple to figure out, easy to play... I would not rate it's PvP as either difficult or exceptionally exciting, but I would also not describe it as being bad.
Originally posted by Greatness Originally posted by binjuice 3) WoW's good/bad trait bif/buf, got quite annoying in the end reading a post which was just a re-worded form of a post maybe a page before it. I'll just say this now so I don't get flamed. WoW is one heck of a game, it took what was worked and added Warcraft to it. The idea was perfect and now Blizzard and others, have brocken a few records, made a lot of money and have finally released a patch, but you won't see me playing it, why, because I played it, found it not for me and moved on. So could the rest of these people who say WoW is bad because of this, or for that, and that its community is bad because of the 2 million or so 12-17 year old's, now when you have 5mil+ players you would usually have almost half under 18, specially with the Warcraft base that is enjoyed by all. (nothing can beat a 1 hour 3v3 War3 apocolypse level fight when your all in the same room.) 4) The bad mouthing of Eve. Why Eve? because it's different? Because it doesn't actually have an avatar? Levels? Endgame? Please leave this unique game out of arguments such as this, it isn't a step backwards in gaming, it's one to the side, one that reality is possible to bring ingame (referring to player dominated market, PvP where your losses are realistic, and in some cases almost too realistic.) but that doesn't give anyone who has played other MMORPG's the right to badmouth, it's not WoW, GW, DAoC, EQ, LA, T, R, PS, SWG, E&B or anyother game ever released, it is an MMO of its own and deserves credit for its initiative. People have a right to badmouth EVE and WoW and any other mmo, they are called opinions just like yours where you said it was not WoW, GW, DAoC, EQ and the others.
You missed the point, Please don't make me re-type it, an opinion where all you do is name the traits the game was designed for as bad just proves it not for you so move on. Which is getting ridiculous because of the age for the average MMORPG gamer is dropping so the idea of acceptance is dropping because of their lack of experience. Call me elitest if you want, but I don't think flaming a game as a review, just someone who has too much time on thier hands, with nothing better to do then trying to walk all over some one else. Opinions are fine, flaming something cause you can is annoying.
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
You said the MMO is not designed for you than if the MMO's that you listed, they are not designed for you then why would you say "it's not WoW, GW, DAoC, EQ, LA, T, R, PS, SWG, E&B or anyother game ever released, it is an MMO of its own and deserves credit for its initiative." These MMO's are not "designed" for you so you can't compare them to EVE or else like you said, it is called flaming. Hypocrite?
All MMORPG's should be somewhat like MYST, that is all these games should have unanswered and unexplored aspects to them. A player should enter a town several times and never really know all the quests or hidden passages present in that town.
Newer games are not hiding enough from the players. WOW, for example, is an open book to anyone who wants to know everything about it.
Originally posted by MMOCrazy You said the MMO is not designed for you than if the MMO's that you listed, they are not designed for you then why would you say "it's not WoW, GW, DAoC, EQ, LA, T, R, PS, SWG, E&B or anyother game ever released, it is an MMO of its own and deserves credit for its initiative." These MMO's are not "designed" for you so you can't compare them to EVE or else like you said, it is called flaming. Hypocrite?
Umm, that's not flaming my friend, that is using other games as examples to what it is not, flaming would me be me saying that those game sucked or something like that compared to Eve, where did I say that? Please inform me?
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
WoW is my second MMO but my first MMORPG. I've been a gamer since gaming on computers started. I know what fun is and millions agree that WoW is it. If you hate WoW, simply stay away and avoid WoW discussions so you don't get too upset.
But now I'm not having fun with WoW mostly because of the end game content. So the search for the next big MMO starts. Large static worlds can't keep up with the players. I kind of like the idea behind Seed all though I would prefer some combat. But PvP is not the only activity that is fun.
-Hunt'n
----------------------- Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW. Current MMO: Current Games: L4D, Skyrim Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR. Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
Comments
As to game development companies making movies, this is what gaming is moving towards, no matter the genre. Gaming is not just gaming it is an experience, alike a movie.
MMORPG
M-assively
M-ultiplayer
O-online
R-ole
P-laying
G-ame
Role Playing. This means playing the role of your character. Not raising numbers, saying LOLZ! Aggro! and all that other shit is not roleplaying. Face of Mankind is definately an MMORPG, you are supposed to play the role of your character, you are encouraged to, the world was built around this.
Wow okay, buddy.
This is YOUR idea of what it meens. There is this wonderful thing PERSONAL PREFERENCE.
Just because you think one way, doesnt meen that how other people think is wrong. They think differently, the sooner you learn this, the sooner you can start getting along with people.
You need to seriously grow up. Cause right now, your wasting your time. You are making an idiot of yourself. This really doesnt matter on the internet, but usually people dont act completely different in the internet from how they are in real life...
And for reference, were not calling you a wow-hater... were calling you an immature elitist and to be frank -- thats worse.
I'm an elitest for hating WoW with some damn good reasons. I don't know where you get immaturity from.
You make some valid points despite your bigotry.
Whilst I am a WoW player I know its not exactly the greatest mmorpg around, all it has done has taken existing mmorpg mechanics from games like Everquest and applied the Blizzard formula.
To say its bad for the industry when games like Asherons Call attracted a mere 300k? at its peak I would say is wrong. WoW has opened up the mmorpg industry so as that more people are more willing to try mmorpgs now and its made more publishers look in this genre direction, that can't be a bad thing.
Everquest was the real trump of the mmorpg industry and unfortunately too many games have copied it rather than the other ones like UO, AC, DAoC. Every Mmorpg stands for something different, Everquest stood for adventure, immersiveness, grouping. DAoC's stood for its Realm vs Realm at the endgame, UO was about intensive pvp combat I think though not tried. WoW has gone for EQ's route of the base classes and basic gameplay. While this is not your cup of tea, it is a massive mmorpg appeal. It serves the purpose of bringing new people into the mmorpg genre but also provides Blizzard's gameplay which I find fun to an extent.
I would disagree it doesn't have skill, from playing fps and playing WoW, both require different types of skill. While you do not skill to get anywhere which maybe your main bug, it does use a certain amount of skill playing classes. A trained chimp could play a class but every person will play the class differently in both pvp and pve content. However, I know where you are coming from, reading all the WoW forums, there is a lot of discontent at the endgame which is all about 'grinding equipment' and where there is a massive gap between those that have the equipment and those that don't. Fortunately I have not reached the endgame yet, and just enjoying the path there before I will likely quit. I hope WoW sorts this, to a lot of people on the forums the endgame is a bit of a disappointment.
I'm gonna congratulate the OP for just one thing: he has proven that games (just like everything in life) are all about preference. I generally am against his points because RPGs have always been this way. From my very first RPG all the way to FFXI which I am currently playing now along with Suikoden IV for past-time I haven't seen much of interactivity in the sense he/she is describing. Stuff like aiming and attack speeds exist in other types of games. I play ALOT of fighting games and they involve alot of skill. Yet such concepts can't fit in an MMORPG because they r more low tone kinds of games. Same goes for FPSs. I enjpy the community alot in FFXI and I also enjoy the missions,quests and everything else I have to go through. Dealing with the inflation is also part of the challenges I face in the game and those r what make it exciting for me. If u r more action and skill oriented I suggest sticking with FPSs or Fighting (GunZ is pretty good
).
Just a quick post before I go off tonight, decisded to check th Gen forum out for once, never come in here because flaming occurs here more often then not, IE this thread. And well I noticed a couple of things by the end of the first page that ran throughout the thread.
1) Even though Scott had an almost decent argument, too much emotion ruined it badly, I don't think he ever was able to get a real view of his own desires within a game. Let alone his
M-assive
M-ultiplayer
O-nline
R-ole
P-laying
G-ame
Idea that most likely confussed him a day later. Scott; mate, just remember when posting on a forum for multiple games, never attack anything with emotion or prejudice. It'll only cause you trouble. Take your argument, throw in a rebuttle or two then spit it back out. Don't just type without thinking.
2)No matter what Scott did he got flamed. Which after a few of his posts he deserved, but some were taken a bit too far themselves. Lightenup the kid's 17 and has only been gaming for 6ish years for the 99 post or 5 years for the 12 year old post. Let him take the immaturity he actually has a right to still and grow up in the real world.
3) WoW's good/bad trait bif/buf, got quite annoying in the end reading a post which was just a re-worded form of a post maybe a page before it. I'll just say this now so I don't get flamed. WoW is one heck of a game, it took what was worked and added Warcraft to it. The idea was perfect and now Blizzard and others, have brocken a few records, made a lot of money and have finally released a patch, but you won't see me playing it, why, because I played it, found it not for me and moved on. So could the rest of these people who say WoW is bad because of this, or for that, and that its community is bad because of the 2 million or so 12-17 year old's, now when you have 5mil+ players you would usually have almost half under 18, specially with the Warcraft base that is enjoyed by all. (nothing can beat a 1 hour 3v3 War3 apocolypse level fight when your all in the same room.)
4) The bad mouthing of Eve. Why Eve? because it's different? Because it doesn't actually have an avatar? Levels? Endgame? Please leave this unique game out of arguments such as this, it isn't a step backwards in gaming, it's one to the side, one that reality is possible to bring ingame (referring to player dominated market, PvP where your losses are realistic, and in some cases almost too realistic.) but that doesn't give anyone who has played other MMORPG's the right to badmouth, it's not WoW, GW, DAoC, EQ, LA, T, R, PS, SWG, E&B or anyother game ever released, it is an MMO of its own and deserves credit for its initiative.
Now I'm off to bed to see if I can get 6 hours sleep before Work. But for now, This is a once off post, probably never to be faught for, but anything against Eve towards what I mentioned. Post it in the Eve forums and I most likly will answer. Otherwise Have a nice life everyone. Find something you enjoy and play it well. Eat cookies. And watch the movie "Avalon" it's in russian or Chek-republic language but it is one decent watch.
'Welcome to Avalon'
(can't sub to any MMO's until Jan 10 so FPS is what I do)
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
I don't really understand your argument. Having better equipment and skills/experience should not give you an advantage? Then what would be the point of getting better equipment/skills in the first place?
As far as the game being repetitive, welcome to the world of mmorpgs. You create one that isnt repetitive and you will be a very rich man.
I get a feeling that you joined a Battlegrounds in WoW and were promptly owned by some raid guild type people with great gear so you assume that they only won because of this gear. It's true that the gear does provide a large advantage but most of the players who have the time and dedication to actually be part of a raiding guild and gain that type of equipment know the ins and outs of the game and are therefore usually better at PvP but not always. Just because you do badly with your equipment/skills doesnt mean someone else wouldnt do better with the exact same setup. Truth is mmoRPG's are more about strategy than roleplaying.
~Greatness~
Currently Playing:
Nothing
WoW is not only about equipment and items. if you think WoW requires no skill to play in PvP, then i doubt you were any good in pvp at all. its always easy to put the blame on your equipment instead of your skill as a player. what many people don't realise is that World of Warcraft is way ahead then most other pvp games. yes, back in the old games it was all about items and such, but those days are over. World of Warcraft DOES involve skill in PVP. Only the people that have too much pride to admit they are not that good at pvp say otherwise
I've PvP'd in WoW and, while it can be entertaining, it's certainly not rocket science. It's pretty much along the lines of the rest of the game... simple to figure out, easy to play... I would not rate it's PvP as either difficult or exceptionally exciting, but I would also not describe it as being bad.
You missed the point, Please don't make me re-type it, an opinion where all you do is name the traits the game was designed for as bad just proves it not for you so move on. Which is getting ridiculous because of the age for the average MMORPG gamer is dropping so the idea of acceptance is dropping because of their lack of experience.
Call me elitest if you want, but I don't think flaming a game as a review, just someone who has too much time on thier hands, with nothing better to do then trying to walk all over some one else. Opinions are fine, flaming something cause you can is annoying.
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
You said the MMO is not designed for you than if the MMO's that you listed, they are not designed for you then why would you say "it's not WoW, GW, DAoC, EQ, LA, T, R, PS, SWG, E&B or anyother game ever released, it is an MMO of its own and deserves credit for its initiative." These MMO's are not "designed" for you so you can't compare them to EVE or else like you said, it is called flaming. Hypocrite?
All MMORPG's should be somewhat like MYST, that is all these games should have unanswered and unexplored aspects to them. A player should enter a town several times and never really know all the quests or hidden passages present in that town.
Newer games are not hiding enough from the players. WOW, for example, is an open book to anyone who wants to know everything about it.
Umm, that's not flaming my friend, that is using other games as examples to what it is not, flaming would me be me saying that those game sucked or something like that compared to Eve, where did I say that? Please inform me?
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
WoW is my second MMO but my first MMORPG. I've been a gamer since gaming on computers started. I know what fun is and millions agree that WoW is it. If you hate WoW, simply stay away and avoid WoW discussions so you don't get too upset.
But now I'm not having fun with WoW mostly because of the end game content. So the search for the next big MMO starts. Large static worlds can't keep up with the players. I kind of like the idea behind Seed all though I would prefer some combat. But PvP is not the only activity that is fun.
-Hunt'n
-----------------------
Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
Current MMO:
Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2