I was playing WoW, seriously. US beta, EU beta, +1 month subscription just after beta. It was great fun against the AI, no real threat, no risk, in worst case "find your corpse". It was entertraining for a while, but the static world made me bored some way. I started to miss my friends in EVE, the community and stuff. So subscription been frozen.
While this above happened, my char in EVE was continously trained, so i continued where i stopped. The vacation i spent gave me power, i was recharged. Thats all. WoW is entertraining, but has no depth. Any <insert fantasy MMO> fanboi can call the 70 000 number puny, but this wont make change the results. The EVE fanbois were awake and take their time, others werent that dedicated.
We will see which game will you emphasize next year. You know, good games last more than a year.
Some dudes say numbers of subscribers doesnt matter. Some others say its important. I dont really care how many people are playing and what. EVE fits for me and im glad it won. CCP is a great company, and they made a great game imho. If you dont like EVE, you are allowed to play else. If you disagree, you can disagree. Im playing this game almost since 2 years. Let me decide what i like. THX.
ps: before someone would trying to offend me, yes, i seen battlegrounds in WoW at my friend. Nice. Period.
ps2: yes, thats my english, i cant better kthxbye.
ps3: Someone mentioned here grinding in EVE and made me confused, so im leavinf to read some game description what have i missed.
Originally posted by parmizan Which brings me to another point: because eve is all in one server and the community is so tightknit: fame is possible in the game Thats a major draw for me
This is very true. Parm is a well-known pirate, and I've even run into him one or twice. In fact, my first real PvP engagement was against him, his then-CEO Karanis, and someone else, with me in my shiny new raven. I managed to take out Karanis' caracal, but got my ass kicked by Parm and his mate and had to warp out. I...um...actually had stabs on...which is what allowed me to run.
(I've since learned how evil stabs are and only use them when I'm moving something extremely expensive from point A to point B. My combat ships, on the other hand, never have them.)
-Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
EVE Online reminds me much of my first experiences on SWG. If SOE did anything they could have learned from EVE's very well done model. SWG would not have been the failure it is today, if it had a design team that was skilled like CCP.
Eve is a sandbox game.
Sandbox games are vastly different from many RPGs out there. Even attracting a different and diverse playerbase even.
Originally posted by dantes80 i got to say that the bitterness shown by the fans of other MMO specialy WOW is quite childish, you comlain that this vote is a popularity contest..well let me hand you a clue..votes lie this ARE a popularity contest..if all the WOW felt dedicated enough to their game to take 5 mins out to vote there is no way in hell eve would win..as it is they obviously dont love WOW. Now considering CCP is a new company and eve is there first major child, this is one hell of an accomplishment, EVE at is 3 years old and is contineously growing..when i started 13 months ago there were 12k online tops...now were hitting 23k..how many MMO will continue to grow at this rate 3 years after launch? soon EVE will be the first game with servers on the top 500 supercomputer list...thats how much deidcation CCP have to the game..they will spend that much $ to make sure we get the best expirience possible. the main difference with CCP and other companys is that $$$ is not the no1 motivation for them, they love the game, and value their playerbase...and as such their player base values them. the graphics may not techincaly be the best ever....but they sure as hell set the right mood and serve the game perfectly. for those who think EVE shouldd not of been in the top pvp neverlone win it...that just shows you have not played this PVP BASED game and as for best game? ive not seen any other mmo which offers so much depth, option or freedom..where any action taken by a player will have such a large effect on the world..where you have coporate and alliance warfares...hell last september there was even the first major civil war
Dantes inferno MASS corp Stain Alliance EVE onlin3
I have to agree with this filthy Stain Alliance member over here (hell must be freezing over )
In all seriously, I didn't vote because I know most games of hearsay or gameplay movies, but I only played Eve (the first mmorpg game that I actually found worth paying a subscription for). None the less, of what I know, here are my remarks:
Favorite company: I like CCP. Small company and they seem genuine concerned with their game and playerbase so it looks like they deserved the #1 spot in my point of view (oh and what I hear from the SWG refugees, SOE are the worst). PS: FREE expensions!
Best graphics: Imo, a tie between Eve and WoW as they can't really compare. One is in space, the other one a planet. Both do a good job in creating an immersive environment
Best PvE: WoW as the fair winner. PvE in Eve is underwhelming but than again, I don't play a MMORPG for PvE but...
Best PvP: Eve hands down. Winning is the best thing ever, loosing hurts every time & adrenalin rush guaranteed. Everything has consequences. Unlike other games, even new players can be a treath to a veteran player. The whole market and industry is driven because of PvP (supply <-> demand).
Best story: One could say the players are creating the story, but unfortunatly you couldn't vote for it. Too little knowledgde to vote for the other games
most anticipated: don't care. I don't see my quitting any time soon
Favorite game: Eve (duh). Deep, immersive, freedom, good community, good graphics, the ability to things that have a permanent impact on the environment (like building outpost, creating an empire)... This game offers to me the closest thing what I was seeking in a MMORPG
Originally posted by grinreaper I have seen the vids(and frankly, not the best choices you could have made, IMHO) and I stand by my comment: very pretty pylons moving aginst a black background...did you notice they dont get very close in any of those? Because of the way the modles are designed, they look like crap up close...low particle explosions with a bit of flare dont do much for me either...if you are easily taken in by such tricks, then by all means, enjoy...just dont try to tell me these are the 'best graphics' in gameing...eq2, coh, heck, even Planetside
ummm....those are dumbed down graphics, they are much better ingame, and they were zoomed out probably to show the action and speed up the framerate lets just say, since eve won, theres not going to be a revote, so everyone else should stop leaping on our backs and saying that it was a bad vote and another game should have won or eve didnt deserve its rewards. if Eve won, Eve DID deserve its rewards. some of you are probably paranoid in thinking that only eve fanbois voted. believe me, i have not seen all that many eve players on this site. the ones i DO see, i recognize. so PLEASE stop saying that only eve players voted !!! THERE ISNT GOING TO BE A RE VOTE, END OF DISCUSHEN DETH TO ALL
Theres nothing wrong with a friendly discussion. Everyone can express their pro or con opinions about any subject, as long as they post polite and mature post with constructive arguments. People voted Eve to be best game, I disagree so I post my arguments why I think its not the best game. I know there wont be a revote, and Im not trying to initiate one, just expressing my point of view. Same with graphics, I agree with the vote, but some people do not, and as long as there is more then "EVE GRAPHICS SUX" message in his post, I will discuss and argue about that case.
Back to the topic, Funjifore is correct, Eve graphics look nice up close as well. I havent found any graphics flaws.
to your first paragraph...i agree with you. its just some people seem to want to initiate a re-vote.
WoW I played for just over a week before I decided that it's cute, and has some pretty effects, but is probably the most uninteresting game I've ever seen, so I uninstalled it, and reclaimed my disk space. It's got mass appeal, kinda like McDonalds.
I've been playing Eve non stop for 6 months. I was hopelessly hooked on the first day. It's the best game I've ever played and I've played 8 mmo's extensively. It's an extremely well designed game, and has appeal to a smaller more discriminating audience that likes depth, like Ruth's Chris Steak House. It's not for everyone. Some people don't like their steak rare ; )
There isn't much instant gratification like WoW, but the end game is quite rich. That probably accounts for the smaller subscribership. Most people simply have short attention spans. I am about 1/4 of the way to the end game, and the game keeps getting better for me. The people in the end game are quite often as addicted as they were 2 years ago.
As well, when you lose a ship or get killed, whatever you had on that ship is floating in space for anyone to pick up, and it's possible to lose 100's of millions in currency if you have implants in. The price of death is steep. Some people don't like this. I think it makes the game more real and every encounter is meaningful. When you lose, you lose big. That risk, is a huge driver in the game for me.
There are some lag issues currently but it's growing pains. I'm willing to hang about while CCP addresses these issues. The game is _that_ good. If you all remember, WoW had some growing pains that weren't quite resolved until this year.
EvE has nearly doubled in size this year, gone up by 40% in number of players actually playing at any given moment, since I started 6 months ago. This is a pretty big jump. There were around 10-12k players on the server (yes it's only one cluster, not zillions of isolated servers like wow) when I started. Now there are regularly 20k on the server.
I don't know what else to say except that EVE ROCKS. They deserve all four of these awards. Nobody can touch them in any of these categories...
Originally posted by jimmyman99 Originally posted by Castrin Originally posted by jimmyman99 I agree with most winners except best game. Eve cannot be a best game because it fits only a very specific player profile. I think WoW at best or EQ2 at worse should be best game because they fit general MMORPG player profile, they are fit for the masses. Dont take me wrong, I like Eve, but i cant play it for long, its too grinding for me, takes too long to accomplish anything major, takes to long to get to the juicy part. With WoW and EQ2 you get into action right away. Just another reason not to trust online polls 100%If you want a more precise poll, just read the subscribtion numbers, the best game will have the most number of active players. 70k is nowhere near the 5 million (according to WoW press release, 5 mil IS the amount of active player accounts, NOT the total amount of game copies sold).
Instant gratification is NOT a mark of a good MMORPG ... you sir, need professional help.
To even type the above shows a lack of understand of the foundations of MMORPGs on a massive scale. Your ignorance should be used as a printed example of a fanboi gone horribly insane.
MMORPGs are NOT about "fitting a general profile" or how long it takes to get to "the juicy part" (i.e. looking for that flash of instant gratification in your first 2 days of playing) but about team work, player interaction, game depth, and freedom to explore ... to make more of the game and do more in the game (without stooping to exploits) than the game designers can foresee ... to do more than camp a spawn or grind materials for crafting, instead to make it a reason to control an area and make it your home ... to do more than just zerg or war on others, instead to use such methods as well as guerrilla warfare and covert ops to help defend your chosen home ... to have PvP with meaning, with pain, with purpose and to protect those that wish to not partake, supporting both styles in a dynamic universe ... to make PvP mean more than the biggest sword / gun / ship / fist, instead to make it a part of everything in the game. And finally to do all of this in one, non sharded, gaming world which in turn makes a stronger game community because we have no technological limits or need to make an character on 'xyz' server to do any of the above with others we meet in the community outside of the gaming world.
EVE does it, it breaks the mold that the mega game producers want to use to make cookie cutter games like WoW and EQ ... and the players out there know it and that is why it won.
Peace.
Before you tell someone to seek out professional help, think about what you are saying. You are saying "I dont care care what 5 million people think, I think Eve is the best so THEY are wrong".. This is ignorance talking. For the most part, Eve reaches its maximum reward at the latter stage, when you have established yourself in the universe, you have credits, good corp, lots of money, raised your skills to pilot best of the best ship, and you have blueprints for that super duper ship that no other corp has. This is all fine but it takes literaly months of real time gameplay, and i mean 5-10 hours per day gameplay to reach that spot. In between, you grind, you try to make your living, you cant realy PvP since you can loose your ship and everything you worked for the last month if you get ganked by 2 15 year olds with bad attitude. Now just becuase you like Eve, dont assume its the best game. Its the best game for YOU maybe, but not so many others. If it were best game for most people, Eve would have 5 million active subscribers.
And yes, I think whatever game has most active subscribers (not counting free games) is better game. I have a trust in human beings, I think people wouldnt pay to play a game they do not enjoy. Even is fun game, but you need to invest a LOT of real life time to get to the realy fun part. You have to get through a lot of grinding, traveling, raising skills which you cannot speed up, if it says you need 1 month to raise your specific skill, it will take 1 real life month. Im sorry I offended your fanboism, but you need to cool off before posting such posts. And before you brand me with fanboism, I dont play any MMORPG atm - even though WoW is best in a sense "get in - start having fun right away", even that game takes too much time for a working man with tight schedule. if i were to start playing Eve, id have to drop my work, stop having personal life, just like what EQ1 did to me.
Not 5 million, just one ... you.
My statements had nothing to do with what people like or dislike but YOUR view on what makes a MMORPG "good" and how since EVE does not "fit general MMORPG player profile" like WoW and EQ2 it shouldn't have even been considered. That kind of view is so wrong headed that it makes my hair stand on end. It smacks of proletarianism and "towing the corporate line" mentality that brings nothing to the table in the way of original game thinking and design. The current landscape of MMORPGs is littered with the carcesses of games that thought this way. So many thought that all you need to do is put stuff in the ground to dig up and cute monsters to bash to level up, but the lie is evident. WoW is huge because the 13-16 year old fanbois love the grind and maiming and lack of a death penalty when people fight back after being griefed too many times. SWG (WoW in space) is dying because too late they tried to break out of the mold only to alienate their player base (note: arguably SWG had a strong game mechanic and the players liked it but in the end it was the same old grind MMORPG). The rest are much the same, they only follow the heard, they don't try and trail blaze. And that is what has me firmly against your view. To back up coolie cutter thinking and say that a game "cannot be a best game because it fits only a very specific player profile" is so fundamentally wrong that it boggles my mind. Therefore I MUST bring YOU to task on it.
As for having to "drop my work, stop having personal life" to play EVE I call BS on that. See this is where people just don't get EVE. They think "OMG I must stay on 5-10 hours and go go go everywhere and do everything to make it" ... wrong! Let me tell you as a husband, father, and 45-60 hour reg working joe that EVE represents the BEST game for casual players ... EVER. No other game lets you "level up" while NOT EVEN BEING ONLINE in the game. Skills are the key and smart time management will get you right in the mix of things even if you can only play 1-2 hours every few days. No other MMORPG has this, not even close (and yes I've played more than just EVE, I know what it take).
Finally, you mention PvP and how painful it is. I agree, it is painful and a loss can really hurt ... that is where you leverage the MMO part of the game, i.e. join up with others! EVE is NOT a solo play game (unlike most other MMORPGs especially at low levels) but one where team work and having a few friends (or a corp to help you out) will make the difference. That is also the beauty of EVE, where other MMOGs have PvP with little or no death penalty EVE kicks you in the nuts (no offence gals) when you lose. That makes players really LEARN the system and not sleep walk through combat. It makes people either recognizes their limits and move on to other things in the game (either for good or till they improve) or excel at the core of what is EVE. Harsh, yes, but it makes EVE the best PvP game out there.
I'm done here now. I've gone over your mistakes point by point. I'm not trying to convince you or change your mind, I doubt that is possible. But this is for those out here that think that EVE is just another MMORPG, it's far more than that. Sure you can immerse your self, but you can also just float on the surface. It's by far the best MMORPG out there currently. It doesn't matter that it has far fewer playing. That is the very essence of being a trailblazer ... only the brave follow you.
Originally posted by Wrayeth Originally posted by parmizan Which brings me to another point: because eve is all in one server and the community is so tightknit: fame is possible in the game Thats a major draw for me This is very true. Parm is a well-known pirate, and I've even run into him one or twice. In fact, my first real PvP engagement was against him, his then-CEO Karanis, and someone else, with me in my shiny new raven. I managed to take out Karanis' caracal, but got my ass kicked by Parm and his mate and had to warp out. I...um...actually had stabs on...which is what allowed me to run. (I've since learned how evil stabs are and only use them when I'm moving something extremely expensive from point A to point B. My combat ships, on the other hand, never have them.)
Bah, we all know you still do Wray but your secret is safe with us.
Originally posted by Castrin Not 5 million, just one ... you.
My statements had nothing to do with what people like or dislike but YOUR view on what makes a MMORPG "good" and how since EVE does not "fit general MMORPG player profile" like WoW and EQ2 it shouldn't have even been considered. That kind of view is so wrong headed that it makes my hair stand on end. It smacks of proletarianism and "towing the corporate line" mentality that brings nothing to the table in the way of original game thinking and design. The current landscape of MMORPGs is littered with the carcesses of games that thought this way. So many thought that all you need to do is put stuff in the ground to dig up and cute monsters to bash to level up, but the lie is evident. WoW is huge because the 13-16 year old fanbois love the grind and maiming and lack of a death penalty when people fight back after being griefed too many times. SWG (WoW in space) is dying because too late they tried to break out of the mold only to alienate their player base (note: arguably SWG had a strong game mechanic and the players liked it but in the end it was the same old grind MMORPG). The rest are much the same, they only follow the heard, they don't try and trail blaze. And that is what has me firmly against your view. To back up coolie cutter thinking and say that a game "cannot be a best game because it fits only a very specific player profile" is so fundamentally wrong that it boggles my mind. Therefore I MUST bring YOU to task on it.
As for having to "drop my work, stop having personal life" to play EVE I call BS on that. See this is where people just don't get EVE. They think "OMG I must stay on 5-10 hours and go go go everywhere and do everything to make it" ... wrong! Let me tell you as a husband, father, and 45-60 hour reg working joe that EVE represents the BEST game for casual players ... EVER. No other game lets you "level up" while NOT EVEN BEING ONLINE in the game. Skills are the key and smart time management will get you right in the mix of things even if you can only play 1-2 hours every few days. No other MMORPG has this, not even close (and yes I've played more than just EVE, I know what it take).
Finally, you mention PvP and how painful it is. I agree, it is painful and a loss can really hurt ... that is where you leverage the MMO part of the game, i.e. join up with others! EVE is NOT a solo play game (unlike most other MMORPGs especially at low levels) but one where team work and having a few friends (or a corp to help you out) will make the difference. That is also the beauty of EVE, where other MMOGs have PvP with little or no death penalty EVE kicks you in the nuts (no offence gals) when you lose. That makes players really LEARN the system and not sleep walk through combat. It makes people either recognizes their limits and move on to other things in the game (either for good or till they improve) or excel at the core of what is EVE. Harsh, yes, but it makes EVE the best PvP game out there.
I'm done here now. I've gone over your mistakes point by point. I'm not trying to convince you or change your mind, I doubt that is possible. But this is for those out here that think that EVE is just another MMORPG, it's far more than that. Sure you can immerse your self, but you can also just float on the surface. It's by far the best MMORPG out there currently. It doesn't matter that it has far fewer playing. That is the very essence of being a trailblazer ... only the brave follow you.
Peace.
First of all, you have to respect other people's opinions, if you want them to respect yours. Telling someone to check their head just becuase he likes apples and not oranges is wrong.
Show me anywhere in my text where I said Eve shouldnt have been nominated for the Best Game. If you read my text carefuly, I said I dont agree with Eve winning the best game, and I gave my reasons why - its a good game, but its not the best game. Im really happy you find Eve to be the best game, I think WoW is the best game and If i would write in the same style you write, id say you need your head checked because WoW has no grind whatsoever - 1/3 of your exp comes from quest exp, the rest is from combat exp doing those quests. So I am not stuck killing same mobs for hours at the same time. but, Im not you, so im not gonna point my finger at you and laugh. You find WoW grinding? Fine. I disagree with your reasoning. Thats it. If you say you are an adult, prove it by not acting like a 15y old kid.
Originally posted by dawn The most anticipated category made me sad. I beta test Dungeons and Dragons Online on the closed server, and it's a weak, thin, horrible game that bears no resemblance to anything like a pen and paper experience. It's basically just a bunch of diablo-esque mission runs and this close to retail, that's all you can expect it to be. You might have fun with it until level 4.
It's very funny to look at the contrast between the DDO non-beta public boards which are full of the hope of many a basement dweller, mountain dew in hand, versus the closed beta boards which are full page top to page bottom of threads detailing how DDO is a massive let-down.
The fact DDO won most anticipated just shows how little people know about some of the games coming up. I would have gone with age of conan myself...
Don't get your hopes up for DDO.
I'm not knocking Conan, I plan on playing that too....
But I beta tested ddo to level 5 and preordered it. DDO kicks butt. That content started getting pretty freaking hard to beat. I can't wait to get it. I played PnP D&D. I like ddo just as much, if not better, because the DM doesn't cut you any breaks in DDO, nor is he unnecessarily cruel, and seeing all those monsters come to life is very cool. Turbine has done a great job translating the latest version of the _original_ fantasy RPG system to computer mmog. It's probably going to be the best PvE fantasy MMORPG ever.
DDO will be a hit. For me, at least personally, it blows WoW away. No creature competition or ninja looting, + it's the real thing. It rocks.
Conan is a different type of game altogether. They are apples and oranges. Conan is going to be sweet too tho...
Originally posted by Iijs "the big story is EVE Online who take all four awards they were nominated for..."Just proves how weak a year it was for MMORPGs. Oh well, there's better on the way, I hope.
I admit I play a lot of EvE. This is not a game children will like. Adults with above average IQ have a blast at it.
The whole faries and pixie dust thing has started to get old after a while. In most games, losing a battle you just respawn, spend almsot nothing repairing armor and go back. In EvE if you lose a 100 million isk ship with 150 million isk in equipment, you really lost it. Gone, nothing, nadda. This means risk is real, gives a bigger rush in PvP for me, and much more fun.
In SWG I was very into the economy. It was simple, but effective. Gather resources and create product you market. EvE is simular, except 1000x more complicated, and sometimes dangerous. If no one is making a certain ship, then no one can buy that ship. Almost everything on the market is only made by players looking for profit, and there are thousands of items to choose.
A lot of opinions have been voiced here. I felt the need to add mine. Now, i only read some parts of this thread, but here's what i have to answer. Winston Churchill once said 'go out and talk to an average voter for 5 minutes and you will see why democracy is such a bad form of government, unfortunately no better has yet been discovered'. In other words he called the average guy ignorant. Someone who sees the immediate benefit before the long-term benefit. Someone gullable. Someone who does only what is best for himself and not for others. And hence someone who is predictable. Unfortunately in saying the above i have insulted a many gamers out there, the majority, that 5 million subscribers to WoW. And i am sorry to have done so, but i'm keeping myself completely opinioneless and trying to make you people see the truth. Having said that, there is no real truth as there are different levels of understanding, and i'm not saying mine is omnipotent. I'm not going to go on about features of different games, comparing one to another, as people before me have already done so. However i will say that in most cases, the 'mass' choose the worst product in the long term. Tell me, what do you get in WoW....once you reach the highest level after months of useles killing of monsters that are purely differentiated by varying textures and attributes. Once you have all that platinum or whatever equipment, then what do you do? Can you say: 'Ok, i've done what i wanted, now for something new'? Well, you can but the answer for a game like WoW will be negative. Moreover, people will probably not ask themselves that, because of people did, WoW wouldn't have had 5 million subscribers right now, a tribute to people's simplicity. Following people's predictability, the gaming industry, just like the movie industry, the music industry and a good deal of others that live off brainwashing people, have went for the most basic instincts that the mass has. The kind of instincts everyone is born with, and few can restrain. Let me give you an example. 70,000x15=1,050,000 - the amount CCP get in income just from subscribers. 5,000,000x15=75,000,000 - the amount Blizzard get in income from subscribers. How many massive content patches have Blizzard released in the past year? How many have CCP released? I think if you don't know the answer you should find out. But following simple mathematics, having 75 times the income of CCP, Blizzard could have easily hired hundreds and thousands of people and released new content every week or every month in large amounts. CCP does it on a slightly smaller scale with only about 15-20 people, but hell CCP does it. Kudos to them. Blizzard will not run an unsharded world, it costs a lot. CCP will, they're constantly upgrading it, and it costs them a lot.
Do you see anything in the above? Is it not obvious that CCP have won 'best company' for a reason? They actually care about their gaming community, constantly solving problems and adding content, while Blizzard do jack shi*t for their income. What follows is a simple conclusion. Blizzard do it for the profits, CCP do it for the gamers. Hence the difference in quality. You think if Blizzard were to hire 1000 programmers and artists right now and told them to make the game as good as Eve while maintaining similar level grinding mechanics? Of course not. Eve was devised as something that could be made better. WoW was a finished product from the start, they never planned to make it better, they won't, and they can't just because it's IMPOSSIBLE to make a game dependant upon Step1: I leave city and find monster Step2: I kill monster, get money, get equipment, get XP Step3: I kill more monsters until i gain a level and have enough money to buy a good item i saw at city. Step4: I got to city and sell crap equipment, have enough cash, but equipment. Step5: Go out of city and find bigger monster (oh the joy, they increased the texture size by 20%, instant adrenaline for the simpleton) Step6: Repeat step 1 to 4 while always getting better items, killing bigger textures, filling head with more shit. All that changes here with new content, is that you are variously distracted from the above cycle by having to join a guild, talk to someone about what lvl u/they are on. Get attacked by some random guy for no reason and gte sad cause he proly beat you and you lost ur items (do you even lose items in WoW?). But no matter what, the basics is the above, and for a game like WoW, it's the foundation. Last stage: Total degeneration reached, system instability, you go cookoo. 'An empty brain is as boring as a blank TV' You want that?
Originally posted by jimmyman99 First of all, you have to respect other people's opinions, if you want them to respect yours. Telling someone to check their head just becuase he likes apples and not oranges is wrong.Show me anywhere in my text where I said Eve shouldnt have been nominated for the Best Game. If you read my text carefuly, I said I dont agree with Eve winning the best game, and I gave my reasons why - its a good game, but its not the best game. Im really happy you find Eve to be the best game, I think WoW is the best game and If i would write in the same style you write, id say you need your head checked because WoW has no grind whatsoever - 1/3 of your exp comes from quest exp, the rest is from combat exp doing those quests. So I am not stuck killing same mobs for hours at the same time. but, Im not you, so im not gonna point my finger at you and laugh. You find WoW grinding? Fine. I disagree with your reasoning. Thats it. If you say you are an adult, prove it by not acting like a 15y old kid.
Respect is not the same as acceptance. I make no comment on whether I respect your points or not, however I do disagree with them strongly. If all you can focus on is the fact I questioned your ability to reason (or have some kind of mental instability) then you might was well stop discussing things now. You lack in focus and will lose a debate every time.
I've addressed your point but since you fail to remember your own comment I'll quote you here:
Originally posted by jimmyman99 Eve cannot be a best game because it fits only a very specific player profile. I think WoW at best or EQ2 at worse should be best game because they fit general MMORPG player profile, they are fit for the masses.
Your statements afterward are merely gloss to hide your dismissive attitude. The above implies that EVE should not have been a "best game" because it does not fit the mold of a game "for the masses". Yet EVE has over 80,000 registered accounts (100,000 if you include trials) and regularly has 12,000 to 20,000 playing at any given time. So what do you define as mass appeal? 100,000? 500,000? 1,000,000 account player base? By implication you find EVE lacking because it doesn't match your definition. Thus it shouldn't have even been considered as a "best game". Thus it shouldn't have been nominated. Did you say this in plain terms? No, but you put the meaning out there quite clearly. I just cut to the chase.
Another thing I will point out. It's been noted that WoW has on average 300,000 players on a day. Now if that number holds any meaning at all then that means that of the 5 million player accounts in WoW only 6% of its player base are in game a day. Compare that to EVE which has 100,000 (approx) accounts and a rough average of 15,000 players on a day, that makes it that 15% are in game a day. These are obviously not confirmable except by Blizzard and CCP but I think they are pretty close. So what's the point? That even though WoW may be huge there is a ton of deadwood there padding its numbers IMHO.
As for me acting as a 15yr old, I just don't see it. Try staying on topic and stop trying to dodge the issue via distraction. It wont work. I don't laugh (and didn't in any of my posts) at people. Instead I bring them to task for their lack of vision and general wrong headedness. If you can't refute my points with clear counterpoints / reasoning then just don't post.
Finally, that you admitted that you are indeed a WoW player allows me to rest my case. That you are unhappy that EVE stole the win from your game of choice is understandable. Just don't let it color your posts, its beneath you as you seem to be a smart lad. It is simply the better game and the rest of the players here knew it. Thankfully.
I didn't vote since I didn't know about it until after the fact.
Major props to CCP, they do truely deserve the awards.
For me, there are clear reasons why Eve manages to retain it's player-base, and has such a loyal following. The complexity of the game itself (while also being very problematic for new players) is what keeps things interesting for us veterans. I'm personally going on since Beta nearly three years past.
What is truely cool about Eve though, is the player created complexity. Trust me, things get ridiculously 'interesting'. Whereas in most other games, you'll have one side vs another, in Eve you have something along the lines of 30 Alliances, with each alliance being made up of multiple corporations, the larger ones number over a 1000 players.
This is where politics come into play (We really do play for keeps). 'Accidents' occur; people don't like how someone else conducts themselves... tensions rise. No where else are you going to find such a turmoil of emotions within a game. Sure enough, if the diplomats don't hash things out properly, and people don't get their ducks in a row, war will swiftly follow.
Imagine being a diplomat for an alliance: the skill with which you carry out your duties will effect thousands of players, literally. And all of these players have something to lose from the results should you fail... or succeed for that matter. Remember, the penalties for pvp are steep in Eve should you lose.
Wars occur where there are more than just two sides, or three, or five....
One war, known as the Great Northern War, which was entirely player driven, played host to a massive portion of the player base, lasted a year.... a whole damn year! Sides shifted and changed, betrayals occured, tremendous battles were waged. Alliances are crushed, and players will carry a grudge that sifts down through time, and finds its way into new alliances and corporations, which in turn infects their thinking.
The player history in Eve is simply massive; trying to chronical a single 'older' alliances history is a very difficult task alone, nevermind that of a single region. For major events alone, what has occured in the last year alone, would make Robert Jordan tear his hair out at the thought of writing it all down.
Trying to describe how Eve sucks people in, with just a short post..... near impossible.
This is just one single facet of what makes Eve a great game (calling it a game almost doesn't do it justice).
PS. Dante, Wautd is in Firmus Ixion, same as myself
A big congrats to EvE and CCP, I've been trying to read what others have said, but got bored with all the trolls and flaming that was going on, then I read Avernus's reply above mine here...
He pretty much tells it like it is, the whole eve universe isn't controlled by the game, but the players, the reason the average age of a person playing EvE is so old, is because it takes you well over a year before you actually have the skill points to be an effective pilot!! You need a skill to go take a wizz in this game!!!
Not only that but the PvP ... ohh the PvP when you're in a 1v1 with someone of the same game time as you, and in near as dammit the same ship/ship class, the blood starts pumping, the senses become more attuned, and once it's over you can't type, you can't talk ... you can't do Sh*t till that adhrenalin goes away!! But if you lose that pod (die) you don't just go back to a town or wotever with everything in tact, you lose your ship, your implants (if you had any) it costs you money to reactivate your clone, ohh and if you didn't keep your clone up to date with however many skillpoints you had ... you lose a certain amount of skill points, which equals time, and of course you now have to go buy another ship and fit it all out again.
In short this game is as close to real life (Markets, politics, friends ect ect) as you're going to get, and it's all set in a graphic rich environment somewhere in the future.
When people say we're part of a cult, they're damn right and for good reason too, our cult rocks come join us wont you
Congratulations to CCP and Eve-Online. I do enjoy Lineage 2 and a few other games, but CCP takes the cake when it comes to offering everything the TRUE player wants.
/appluas
We can agree to disagree, or we can bicker constantly... either way, I'm right. SobaKai.com There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
Eve online the mmog made by faggots for faggots,just goes to show how messed up this site is that this game won anything much less is at top of chart on mmog ratings.Guess they have alot of time to spam votes though as they lvl up even when not in game.Would love to see the ppl who play WoW-Eq2 encourage there forums and player bases to come here and vote up there games thats how Eve got on top was due to Eve's on devs posting and begging there players to come here and inflate there score.
My statements had nothing to do with what people like or dislike but YOUR view on what makes a MMORPG "good" and how since EVE does not "fit general MMORPG player profile" like WoW and EQ2 it shouldn't have even been considered. That kind of view is so wrong headed that it makes my hair stand on end. It smacks of proletarianism and "towing the corporate line" mentality that brings nothing to the table in the way of original game thinking and design. The current landscape of MMORPGs is littered with the carcesses of games that thought this way. So many thought that all you need to do is put stuff in the ground to dig up and cute monsters to bash to level up, but the lie is evident. WoW is huge because the 13-16 year old fanbois love the grind and maiming and lack of a death penalty when people fight back after being griefed too many times. SWG (WoW in space) is dying because too late they tried to break out of the mold only to alienate their player base (note: arguably SWG had a strong game mechanic and the players liked it but in the end it was the same old grind MMORPG). The rest are much the same, they only follow the heard, they don't try and trail blaze. And that is what has me firmly against your view. To back up coolie cutter thinking and say that a game "cannot be a best game because it fits only a very specific player profile" is so fundamentally wrong that it boggles my mind. Therefore I MUST bring YOU to task on it.
As for having to "drop my work, stop having personal life" to play EVE I call BS on that. See this is where people just don't get EVE. They think "OMG I must stay on 5-10 hours and go go go everywhere and do everything to make it" ... wrong! Let me tell you as a husband, father, and 45-60 hour reg working joe that EVE represents the BEST game for casual players ... EVER. No other game lets you "level up" while NOT EVEN BEING ONLINE in the game. Skills are the key and smart time management will get you right in the mix of things even if you can only play 1-2 hours every few days. No other MMORPG has this, not even close (and yes I've played more than just EVE, I know what it take).
Finally, you mention PvP and how painful it is. I agree, it is painful and a loss can really hurt ... that is where you leverage the MMO part of the game, i.e. join up with others! EVE is NOT a solo play game (unlike most other MMORPGs especially at low levels) but one where team work and having a few friends (or a corp to help you out) will make the difference. That is also the beauty of EVE, where other MMOGs have PvP with little or no death penalty EVE kicks you in the nuts (no offence gals) when you lose. That makes players really LEARN the system and not sleep walk through combat. It makes people either recognizes their limits and move on to other things in the game (either for good or till they improve) or excel at the core of what is EVE. Harsh, yes, but it makes EVE the best PvP game out there.
I'm done here now. I've gone over your mistakes point by point. I'm not trying to convince you or change your mind, I doubt that is possible. But this is for those out here that think that EVE is just another MMORPG, it's far more than that. Sure you can immerse your self, but you can also just float on the surface. It's by far the best MMORPG out there currently. It doesn't matter that it has far fewer playing. That is the very essence of being a trailblazer ... only the brave follow you.
Peace.
Your 720mm intelligence Howitzer I places an excellent hit on WoW fan boy, inflicting 1310.5 damage.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Originally posted by rznkain Eve online the mmog made by faggots for faggots,just goes to show how messed up this site is that this game won anything much less is at top of chart on mmog ratings.Guess they have alot of time to spam votes though as they lvl up even when not in game.Would love to see the ppl who play WoW-Eq2 encourage there forums and player bases to come here and vote up there games thats how Eve got on top was due to Eve's on devs posting and begging there players to come here and inflate there score.
Sour grapes? I think so.
I play Eve and WoW and have played many more. The winners are the winners, nothing to worry about, congratulate the winners and comiserate with the others. Maybe next year you'll be old enough to vote.
I personally play CoV, WoW, and EvE currently... Of the 3 I think EvE is by far the best game. Even though I play WoW more, its mostly due to the fact that Blizzard has made WoW a HUGE timesink. Currently my guild is farming Nefarion as practice for AQ whenever our server manages to get the gates open. Its a long boring process that I pretty much do with my head on the desk. EvE however is exciting for me to play as I am in a small pirate corp and I'm constantly having to look over my shoulder for both my next target or bigger and badder pirates.
I can't say I'm surprised at all the flames against EvE though, the vocal minority of gamers has shown itself to be teenagers and we all know how much teenagers love attention. Most of the adults just sit back reading shaking their heads. If your upset that EvE won the popularity contests (and I'm sorry if its a vote yes its a popularity contest, that is why its called Reader's Choice awards) then get more of your buddies from HS to vote for your favorite game. Take the risk of being labeled a nerd for the game you love!
Btw, I constantly talk about EvE at work, my fellow managers all play it as well. Its actually a great model for running a business and allows you to do all sorts of funs tuff.
Comments
All i can add as "ebil EVE-fanboi":
I was playing WoW, seriously. US beta, EU beta, +1 month subscription just after beta. It was great fun against the AI, no real threat, no risk, in worst case "find your corpse". It was entertraining for a while, but the static world made me bored some way. I started to miss my friends in EVE, the community and stuff. So subscription been frozen.
While this above happened, my char in EVE was continously trained, so i continued where i stopped. The vacation i spent gave me power, i was recharged. Thats all. WoW is entertraining, but has no depth. Any <insert fantasy MMO> fanboi can call the 70 000 number puny, but this wont make change the results. The EVE fanbois were awake and take their time, others werent that dedicated.
We will see which game will you emphasize next year. You know, good games last more than a year.
Some dudes say numbers of subscribers doesnt matter. Some others say its important. I dont really care how many people are playing and what. EVE fits for me and im glad it won. CCP is a great company, and they made a great game imho. If you dont like EVE, you are allowed to play else. If you disagree, you can disagree. Im playing this game almost since 2 years. Let me decide what i like. THX.
ps: before someone would trying to offend me, yes, i seen battlegrounds in WoW at my friend. Nice. Period.
ps2: yes, thats my english, i cant better kthxbye.
ps3: Someone mentioned here grinding in EVE and made me confused, so im leavinf to read some game description what have i missed.
This is very true. Parm is a well-known pirate, and I've even run into him one or twice. In fact, my first real PvP engagement was against him, his then-CEO Karanis, and someone else, with me in my shiny new raven. I managed to take out Karanis' caracal, but got my ass kicked by Parm and his mate and had to warp out. I...um...actually had stabs on...which is what allowed me to run.
(I've since learned how evil stabs are and only use them when I'm moving something extremely expensive from point A to point B. My combat ships, on the other hand, never have them.)
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
The Results speak for them self.
EVE simply Rocks!
EVE Online reminds me much of my first experiences on SWG. If SOE did anything they could have learned from EVE's very well done model. SWG would not have been the failure it is today, if it had a design team that was skilled like CCP.
Eve is a sandbox game.
Sandbox games are vastly different from many RPGs out there. Even attracting a different and diverse playerbase even.
I have to agree with this filthy Stain Alliance member over here (hell must be freezing over
)
In all seriously, I didn't vote because I know most games of hearsay or gameplay movies, but I only played Eve (the first mmorpg game that I actually found worth paying a subscription for). None the less, of what I know, here are my remarks:
Favorite company: I like CCP. Small company and they seem genuine concerned with their game and playerbase so it looks like they deserved the #1 spot in my point of view (oh and what I hear from the SWG refugees, SOE are the worst). PS: FREE expensions!
Best graphics: Imo, a tie between Eve and WoW as they can't really compare. One is in space, the other one a planet. Both do a good job in creating an immersive environment
Best PvE: WoW as the fair winner. PvE in Eve is underwhelming but than again, I don't play a MMORPG for PvE but...
Best PvP: Eve hands down. Winning is the best thing ever, loosing hurts every time & adrenalin rush guaranteed. Everything has consequences. Unlike other games, even new players can be a treath to a veteran player. The whole market and industry is driven because of PvP (supply <-> demand).
Best story: One could say the players are creating the story, but unfortunatly you couldn't vote for it. Too little knowledgde to vote for the other games
most anticipated: don't care. I don't see my quitting any time soon
Favorite game: Eve (duh). Deep, immersive, freedom, good community, good graphics, the ability to things that have a permanent impact on the environment (like building outpost, creating an empire)... This game offers to me the closest thing what I was seeking in a MMORPG
[quote]
I have to agree with this filthy Stain Alliance member over here (hell must be freezing over
)[/quote]
hey i resent that im not filthy i wash at least 1 a year thank you very much
now im wondering who you are in game...but you must have some sence to agree with such a brilliant alliance as SA if even its only once
Theres nothing wrong with a friendly discussion. Everyone can express their pro or con opinions about any subject, as long as they post polite and mature post with constructive arguments. People voted Eve to be best game, I disagree so I post my arguments why I think its not the best game. I know there wont be a revote, and Im not trying to initiate one, just expressing my point of view. Same with graphics, I agree with the vote, but some people do not, and as long as there is more then "EVE GRAPHICS SUX" message in his post, I will discuss and argue about that case.
Back to the topic, Funjifore is correct, Eve graphics look nice up close as well. I havent found any graphics flaws.
to your first paragraph...i agree with you. its just some people seem to want to initiate a re-vote.
ofc they do "their" game didnt win and as such the vote was rigged..as obviously "their" game should of won and no other.
ofc they do "their" game didnt win and as such the vote was rigged..as obviously "their" game should of won and no other.
exactly
I've played Eve and WoW.
WoW I played for just over a week before I decided that it's cute, and has some pretty effects, but is probably the most uninteresting game I've ever seen, so I uninstalled it, and reclaimed my disk space. It's got mass appeal, kinda like McDonalds.
I've been playing Eve non stop for 6 months. I was hopelessly hooked on the first day. It's the best game I've ever played and I've played 8 mmo's extensively. It's an extremely well designed game, and has appeal to a smaller more discriminating audience that likes depth, like Ruth's Chris Steak House. It's not for everyone. Some people don't like their steak rare ; )
There isn't much instant gratification like WoW, but the end game is quite rich. That probably accounts for the smaller subscribership. Most people simply have short attention spans. I am about 1/4 of the way to the end game, and the game keeps getting better for me. The people in the end game are quite often as addicted as they were 2 years ago.
As well, when you lose a ship or get killed, whatever you had on that ship is floating in space for anyone to pick up, and it's possible to lose 100's of millions in currency if you have implants in. The price of death is steep. Some people don't like this. I think it makes the game more real and every encounter is meaningful. When you lose, you lose big. That risk, is a huge driver in the game for me.
There are some lag issues currently but it's growing pains. I'm willing to hang about while CCP addresses these issues. The game is _that_ good. If you all remember, WoW had some growing pains that weren't quite resolved until this year.
EvE has nearly doubled in size this year, gone up by 40% in number of players actually playing at any given moment, since I started 6 months ago. This is a pretty big jump. There were around 10-12k players on the server (yes it's only one cluster, not zillions of isolated servers like wow) when I started. Now there are regularly 20k on the server.
I don't know what else to say except that EVE ROCKS. They deserve all four of these awards. Nobody can touch them in any of these categories...
-Viza
Instant gratification is NOT a mark of a good MMORPG ... you sir, need professional help.
To even type the above shows a lack of understand of the foundations of MMORPGs on a massive scale. Your ignorance should be used as a printed example of a fanboi gone horribly insane.
MMORPGs are NOT about "fitting a general profile" or how long it takes to get to "the juicy part" (i.e. looking for that flash of instant gratification in your first 2 days of playing) but about team work, player interaction, game depth, and freedom to explore ... to make more of the game and do more in the game (without stooping to exploits) than the game designers can foresee ... to do more than camp a spawn or grind materials for crafting, instead to make it a reason to control an area and make it your home ... to do more than just zerg or war on others, instead to use such methods as well as guerrilla warfare and covert ops to help defend your chosen home ... to have PvP with meaning, with pain, with purpose and to protect those that wish to not partake, supporting both styles in a dynamic universe ... to make PvP mean more than the biggest sword / gun / ship / fist, instead to make it a part of everything in the game. And finally to do all of this in one, non sharded, gaming world which in turn makes a stronger game community because we have no technological limits or need to make an character on 'xyz' server to do any of the above with others we meet in the community outside of the gaming world.
EVE does it, it breaks the mold that the mega game producers want to use to make cookie cutter games like WoW and EQ ... and the players out there know it and that is why it won.
Peace.
Before you tell someone to seek out professional help, think about what you are saying. You are saying "I dont care care what 5 million people think, I think Eve is the best so THEY are wrong".. This is ignorance talking. For the most part, Eve reaches its maximum reward at the latter stage, when you have established yourself in the universe, you have credits, good corp, lots of money, raised your skills to pilot best of the best ship, and you have blueprints for that super duper ship that no other corp has. This is all fine but it takes literaly months of real time gameplay, and i mean 5-10 hours per day gameplay to reach that spot. In between, you grind, you try to make your living, you cant realy PvP since you can loose your ship and everything you worked for the last month if you get ganked by 2 15 year olds with bad attitude.
Now just becuase you like Eve, dont assume its the best game. Its the best game for YOU maybe, but not so many others. If it were best game for most people, Eve would have 5 million active subscribers.
And yes, I think whatever game has most active subscribers (not counting free games) is better game. I have a trust in human beings, I think people wouldnt pay to play a game they do not enjoy. Even is fun game, but you need to invest a LOT of real life time to get to the realy fun part. You have to get through a lot of grinding, traveling, raising skills which you cannot speed up, if it says you need 1 month to raise your specific skill, it will take 1 real life month. Im sorry I offended your fanboism, but you need to cool off before posting such posts. And before you brand me with fanboism, I dont play any MMORPG atm - even though WoW is best in a sense "get in - start having fun right away", even that game takes too much time for a working man with tight schedule. if i were to start playing Eve, id have to drop my work, stop having personal life, just like what EQ1 did to me.
Not 5 million, just one ... you.
My statements had nothing to do with what people like or dislike but YOUR view on what makes a MMORPG "good" and how since EVE does not "fit general MMORPG player profile" like WoW and EQ2 it shouldn't have even been considered. That kind of view is so wrong headed that it makes my hair stand on end. It smacks of proletarianism and "towing the corporate line" mentality that brings nothing to the table in the way of original game thinking and design. The current landscape of MMORPGs is littered with the carcesses of games that thought this way. So many thought that all you need to do is put stuff in the ground to dig up and cute monsters to bash to level up, but the lie is evident. WoW is huge because the 13-16 year old fanbois love the grind and maiming and lack of a death penalty when people fight back after being griefed too many times. SWG (WoW in space) is dying because too late they tried to break out of the mold only to alienate their player base (note: arguably SWG had a strong game mechanic and the players liked it but in the end it was the same old grind MMORPG). The rest are much the same, they only follow the heard, they don't try and trail blaze. And that is what has me firmly against your view. To back up coolie cutter thinking and say that a game "cannot be a best game because it fits only a very specific player profile" is so fundamentally wrong that it boggles my mind. Therefore I MUST bring YOU to task on it.
As for having to "drop my work, stop having personal life" to play EVE I call BS on that. See this is where people just don't get EVE. They think "OMG I must stay on 5-10 hours and go go go everywhere and do everything to make it" ... wrong! Let me tell you as a husband, father, and 45-60 hour reg working joe that EVE represents the BEST game for casual players ... EVER. No other game lets you "level up" while NOT EVEN BEING ONLINE in the game. Skills are the key and smart time management will get you right in the mix of things even if you can only play 1-2 hours every few days. No other MMORPG has this, not even close (and yes I've played more than just EVE, I know what it take).
Finally, you mention PvP and how painful it is. I agree, it is painful and a loss can really hurt ... that is where you leverage the MMO part of the game, i.e. join up with others! EVE is NOT a solo play game (unlike most other MMORPGs especially at low levels) but one where team work and having a few friends (or a corp to help you out) will make the difference. That is also the beauty of EVE, where other MMOGs have PvP with little or no death penalty EVE kicks you in the nuts (no offence gals) when you lose. That makes players really LEARN the system and not sleep walk through combat. It makes people either recognizes their limits and move on to other things in the game (either for good or till they improve) or excel at the core of what is EVE. Harsh, yes, but it makes EVE the best PvP game out there.
I'm done here now. I've gone over your mistakes point by point. I'm not trying to convince you or change your mind, I doubt that is possible. But this is for those out here that think that EVE is just another MMORPG, it's far more than that. Sure you can immerse your self, but you can also just float on the surface. It's by far the best MMORPG out there currently. It doesn't matter that it has far fewer playing. That is the very essence of being a trailblazer ... only the brave follow you.
Peace.
Bah, we all know you still do Wray but your secret is safe with us.
Oh wait this is a public forum ... d'oh!
First of all, you have to respect other people's opinions, if you want them to respect yours. Telling someone to check their head just becuase he likes apples and not oranges is wrong.
Show me anywhere in my text where I said Eve shouldnt have been nominated for the Best Game. If you read my text carefuly, I said I dont agree with Eve winning the best game, and I gave my reasons why - its a good game, but its not the best game. Im really happy you find Eve to be the best game, I think WoW is the best game and If i would write in the same style you write, id say you need your head checked because WoW has no grind whatsoever - 1/3 of your exp comes from quest exp, the rest is from combat exp doing those quests. So I am not stuck killing same mobs for hours at the same time. but, Im not you, so im not gonna point my finger at you and laugh. You find WoW grinding? Fine. I disagree with your reasoning. Thats it. If you say you are an adult, prove it by not acting like a 15y old kid.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I'm not knocking Conan, I plan on playing that too....
But I beta tested ddo to level 5 and preordered it. DDO kicks butt. That content started getting pretty freaking hard to beat. I can't wait to get it. I played PnP D&D. I like ddo just as much, if not better, because the DM doesn't cut you any breaks in DDO, nor is he unnecessarily cruel, and seeing all those monsters come to life is very cool. Turbine has done a great job translating the latest version of the _original_ fantasy RPG system to computer mmog. It's probably going to be the best PvE fantasy MMORPG ever.
DDO will be a hit. For me, at least personally, it blows WoW away. No creature competition or ninja looting, + it's the real thing. It rocks.
Conan is a different type of game altogether. They are apples and oranges.
Conan is going to be sweet too tho...
-Viza
I admit I play a lot of EvE. This is not a game children will like. Adults with above average IQ have a blast at it.
The whole faries and pixie dust thing has started to get old after a while. In most games, losing a battle you just respawn, spend almsot nothing repairing armor and go back. In EvE if you lose a 100 million isk ship with 150 million isk in equipment, you really lost it. Gone, nothing, nadda. This means risk is real, gives a bigger rush in PvP for me, and much more fun.
In SWG I was very into the economy. It was simple, but effective. Gather resources and create product you market. EvE is simular, except 1000x more complicated, and sometimes dangerous. If no one is making a certain ship, then no one can buy that ship. Almost everything on the market is only made by players looking for profit, and there are thousands of items to choose.
A lot of opinions have been voiced here.
I felt the need to add mine.
Now, i only read some parts of this thread, but here's what i have to answer.
Winston Churchill once said 'go out and talk to an average voter for 5 minutes and you will see why democracy is such a bad form of government, unfortunately no better has yet been discovered'. In other words he called the average guy ignorant. Someone who sees the immediate benefit before the long-term benefit. Someone gullable. Someone who does only what is best for himself and not for others. And hence someone who is predictable.
Unfortunately in saying the above i have insulted a many gamers out there, the majority, that 5 million subscribers to WoW. And i am sorry to have done so, but i'm keeping myself completely opinioneless and trying to make you people see the truth. Having said that, there is no real truth as there are different levels of understanding, and i'm not saying mine is omnipotent.
I'm not going to go on about features of different games, comparing one to another, as people before me have already done so.
However i will say that in most cases, the 'mass' choose the worst product in the long term.
Tell me, what do you get in WoW....once you reach the highest level after months of useles killing of monsters that are purely differentiated by varying textures and attributes. Once you have all that platinum or whatever equipment, then what do you do?
Can you say: 'Ok, i've done what i wanted, now for something new'? Well, you can but the answer for a game like WoW will be negative. Moreover, people will probably not ask themselves that, because of people did, WoW wouldn't have had 5 million subscribers right now, a tribute to people's simplicity.
Following people's predictability, the gaming industry, just like the movie industry, the music industry and a good deal of others that live off brainwashing people, have went for the most basic instincts that the mass has. The kind of instincts everyone is born with, and few can restrain. Let me give you an example.
70,000x15=1,050,000 - the amount CCP get in income just from subscribers.
5,000,000x15=75,000,000 - the amount Blizzard get in income from subscribers.
How many massive content patches have Blizzard released in the past year?
How many have CCP released? I think if you don't know the answer you should find out.
But following simple mathematics, having 75 times the income of CCP, Blizzard could have easily hired hundreds and thousands of people and released new content every week or every month in large amounts.
CCP does it on a slightly smaller scale with only about 15-20 people, but hell CCP does it. Kudos to them.
Blizzard will not run an unsharded world, it costs a lot.
CCP will, they're constantly upgrading it, and it costs them a lot.
Do you see anything in the above? Is it not obvious that CCP have won 'best company' for a reason? They actually care about their gaming community, constantly solving problems and adding content, while Blizzard do jack shi*t for their income.
What follows is a simple conclusion. Blizzard do it for the profits, CCP do it for the gamers. Hence the difference in quality. You think if Blizzard were to hire 1000 programmers and artists right now and told them to make the game as good as Eve while maintaining similar level grinding mechanics? Of course not. Eve was devised as something that could be made better. WoW was a finished product from the start, they never planned to make it better, they won't, and they can't just because it's IMPOSSIBLE to make a game dependant upon
Step1: I leave city and find monster
Step2: I kill monster, get money, get equipment, get XP
Step3: I kill more monsters until i gain a level and have enough money to buy a good item i saw at city.
Step4: I got to city and sell crap equipment, have enough cash, but equipment.
Step5: Go out of city and find bigger monster (oh the joy, they increased the texture size by 20%, instant adrenaline for the simpleton)
Step6: Repeat step 1 to 4 while always getting better items, killing bigger textures, filling head with more shit.
All that changes here with new content, is that you are variously distracted from the above cycle by having to join a guild, talk to someone about what lvl u/they are on. Get attacked by some random guy for no reason and gte sad cause he proly beat you and you lost ur items (do you even lose items in WoW?). But no matter what, the basics is the above, and for a game like WoW, it's the foundation.
Last stage: Total degeneration reached, system instability, you go cookoo.
'An empty brain is as boring as a blank TV'
You want that?
Respect is not the same as acceptance. I make no comment on whether I respect your points or not, however I do disagree with them strongly. If all you can focus on is the fact I questioned your ability to reason (or have some kind of mental instability) then you might was well stop discussing things now. You lack in focus and will lose a debate every time.
I've addressed your point but since you fail to remember your own comment I'll quote you here:
Your statements afterward are merely gloss to hide your dismissive attitude. The above implies that EVE should not have been a "best game" because it does not fit the mold of a game "for the masses". Yet EVE has over 80,000 registered accounts (100,000 if you include trials) and regularly has 12,000 to 20,000 playing at any given time. So what do you define as mass appeal? 100,000? 500,000? 1,000,000 account player base? By implication you find EVE lacking because it doesn't match your definition. Thus it shouldn't have even been considered as a "best game". Thus it shouldn't have been nominated. Did you say this in plain terms? No, but you put the meaning out there quite clearly. I just cut to the chase.
Another thing I will point out. It's been noted that WoW has on average 300,000 players on a day. Now if that number holds any meaning at all then that means that of the 5 million player accounts in WoW only 6% of its player base are in game a day. Compare that to EVE which has 100,000 (approx) accounts and a rough average of 15,000 players on a day, that makes it that 15% are in game a day. These are obviously not confirmable except by Blizzard and CCP but I think they are pretty close. So what's the point? That even though WoW may be huge there is a ton of deadwood there padding its numbers IMHO.
As for me acting as a 15yr old, I just don't see it. Try staying on topic and stop trying to dodge the issue via distraction. It wont work. I don't laugh (and didn't in any of my posts) at people. Instead I bring them to task for their lack of vision and general wrong headedness. If you can't refute my points with clear counterpoints / reasoning then just don't post.
Finally, that you admitted that you are indeed a WoW player allows me to rest my case. That you are unhappy that EVE stole the win from your game of choice is understandable. Just don't let it color your posts, its beneath you as you seem to be a smart lad. It is simply the better game and the rest of the players here knew it. Thankfully.
Peace.
I didn't vote since I didn't know about it until after the fact.
Major props to CCP, they do truely deserve the awards.
For me, there are clear reasons why Eve manages to retain it's player-base, and has such a loyal following. The complexity of the game itself (while also being very problematic for new players) is what keeps things interesting for us veterans. I'm personally going on since Beta nearly three years past.
What is truely cool about Eve though, is the player created complexity. Trust me, things get ridiculously 'interesting'. Whereas in most other games, you'll have one side vs another, in Eve you have something along the lines of 30 Alliances, with each alliance being made up of multiple corporations, the larger ones number over a 1000 players.
This is where politics come into play (We really do play for keeps). 'Accidents' occur; people don't like how someone else conducts themselves... tensions rise. No where else are you going to find such a turmoil of emotions within a game. Sure enough, if the diplomats don't hash things out properly, and people don't get their ducks in a row, war will swiftly follow.
Imagine being a diplomat for an alliance: the skill with which you carry out your duties will effect thousands of players, literally. And all of these players have something to lose from the results should you fail... or succeed for that matter. Remember, the penalties for pvp are steep in Eve should you lose.
Wars occur where there are more than just two sides, or three, or five....
One war, known as the Great Northern War, which was entirely player driven, played host to a massive portion of the player base, lasted a year.... a whole damn year! Sides shifted and changed, betrayals occured, tremendous battles were waged. Alliances are crushed, and players will carry a grudge that sifts down through time, and finds its way into new alliances and corporations, which in turn infects their thinking.
The player history in Eve is simply massive; trying to chronical a single 'older' alliances history is a very difficult task alone, nevermind that of a single region. For major events alone, what has occured in the last year alone, would make Robert Jordan tear his hair out at the thought of writing it all down.
Trying to describe how Eve sucks people in, with just a short post..... near impossible.
This is just one single facet of what makes Eve a great game (calling it a game almost doesn't do it justice).
PS. Dante, Wautd is in Firmus Ixion, same as myself
A big congrats to EvE and CCP, I've been trying to read what others have said, but got bored with all the trolls and flaming that was going on, then I read Avernus's reply above mine here...
He pretty much tells it like it is, the whole eve universe isn't controlled by the game, but the players, the reason the average age of a person playing EvE is so old, is because it takes you well over a year before you actually have the skill points to be an effective pilot!! You need a skill to go take a wizz in this game!!!
Not only that but the PvP ... ohh the PvP when you're in a 1v1 with someone of the same game time as you, and in near as dammit the same ship/ship class, the blood starts pumping, the senses become more attuned, and once it's over you can't type, you can't talk ... you can't do Sh*t till that adhrenalin goes away!! But if you lose that pod (die) you don't just go back to a town or wotever with everything in tact, you lose your ship, your implants (if you had any) it costs you money to reactivate your clone, ohh and if you didn't keep your clone up to date with however many skillpoints you had ... you lose a certain amount of skill points, which equals time, and of course you now have to go buy another ship and fit it all out again.
In short this game is as close to real life (Markets, politics, friends ect ect) as you're going to get, and it's all set in a graphic rich environment somewhere in the future.
When people say we're part of a cult, they're damn right and for good reason too, our cult rocks come join us wont you
Congratulations to CCP and Eve-Online. I do enjoy Lineage 2 and a few other games, but CCP takes the cake when it comes to offering everything the TRUE player wants.
/appluas
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
Not 5 million, just one ... you.
My statements had nothing to do with what people like or dislike but YOUR view on what makes a MMORPG "good" and how since EVE does not "fit general MMORPG player profile" like WoW and EQ2 it shouldn't have even been considered. That kind of view is so wrong headed that it makes my hair stand on end. It smacks of proletarianism and "towing the corporate line" mentality that brings nothing to the table in the way of original game thinking and design. The current landscape of MMORPGs is littered with the carcesses of games that thought this way. So many thought that all you need to do is put stuff in the ground to dig up and cute monsters to bash to level up, but the lie is evident. WoW is huge because the 13-16 year old fanbois love the grind and maiming and lack of a death penalty when people fight back after being griefed too many times. SWG (WoW in space) is dying because too late they tried to break out of the mold only to alienate their player base (note: arguably SWG had a strong game mechanic and the players liked it but in the end it was the same old grind MMORPG). The rest are much the same, they only follow the heard, they don't try and trail blaze. And that is what has me firmly against your view. To back up coolie cutter thinking and say that a game "cannot be a best game because it fits only a very specific player profile" is so fundamentally wrong that it boggles my mind. Therefore I MUST bring YOU to task on it.
As for having to "drop my work, stop having personal life" to play EVE I call BS on that. See this is where people just don't get EVE. They think "OMG I must stay on 5-10 hours and go go go everywhere and do everything to make it" ... wrong! Let me tell you as a husband, father, and 45-60 hour reg working joe that EVE represents the BEST game for casual players ... EVER. No other game lets you "level up" while NOT EVEN BEING ONLINE in the game. Skills are the key and smart time management will get you right in the mix of things even if you can only play 1-2 hours every few days. No other MMORPG has this, not even close (and yes I've played more than just EVE, I know what it take).
Finally, you mention PvP and how painful it is. I agree, it is painful and a loss can really hurt ... that is where you leverage the MMO part of the game, i.e. join up with others! EVE is NOT a solo play game (unlike most other MMORPGs especially at low levels) but one where team work and having a few friends (or a corp to help you out) will make the difference. That is also the beauty of EVE, where other MMOGs have PvP with little or no death penalty EVE kicks you in the nuts (no offence gals) when you lose. That makes players really LEARN the system and not sleep walk through combat. It makes people either recognizes their limits and move on to other things in the game (either for good or till they improve) or excel at the core of what is EVE. Harsh, yes, but it makes EVE the best PvP game out there.
I'm done here now. I've gone over your mistakes point by point. I'm not trying to convince you or change your mind, I doubt that is possible. But this is for those out here that think that EVE is just another MMORPG, it's far more than that. Sure you can immerse your self, but you can also just float on the surface. It's by far the best MMORPG out there currently. It doesn't matter that it has far fewer playing. That is the very essence of being a trailblazer ... only the brave follow you.
Peace.
Your 720mm intelligence Howitzer I places an excellent hit on WoW fan boy, inflicting 1310.5 damage.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Sour grapes? I think so.
I play Eve and WoW and have played many more. The winners are the winners, nothing to worry about, congratulate the winners and comiserate with the others.
Maybe next year you'll be old enough to vote.
Protect me from what I want.
I personally play CoV, WoW, and EvE currently... Of the 3 I think EvE is by far the best game. Even though I play WoW more, its mostly due to the fact that Blizzard has made WoW a HUGE timesink. Currently my guild is farming Nefarion as practice for AQ whenever our server manages to get the gates open. Its a long boring process that I pretty much do with my head on the desk. EvE however is exciting for me to play as I am in a small pirate corp and I'm constantly having to look over my shoulder for both my next target or bigger and badder pirates.
I can't say I'm surprised at all the flames against EvE though, the vocal minority of gamers has shown itself to be teenagers and we all know how much teenagers love attention. Most of the adults just sit back reading shaking their heads. If your upset that EvE won the popularity contests (and I'm sorry if its a vote yes its a popularity contest, that is why its called Reader's Choice awards) then get more of your buddies from HS to vote for your favorite game. Take the risk of being labeled a nerd for the game you love!
Btw, I constantly talk about EvE at work, my fellow managers all play it as well. Its actually a great model for running a business and allows you to do all sorts of funs tuff.