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Yet another virtual seller advert, yourvirtualseller
Jorev
Member Posts: 1,500
Forums / Chat / Messaging Rules
At MMORPG.COM we make every effort to make this a safe and enjoyable destination for those in the MMORPG community. You may NOT use our communication devices (Forums,Chat,Private Message System) for any of the following:
Trading of in-game items or game accounts for real-world money. Our trade forums are only for in-game transactions
Doesn't the spirit of this rule apply to adverts even though some lawyer type will claim they don't technically use the forums? Aren't adverts a message source?
This site is starting to get trashy and overrun with these resellers and powerlevelling services. Is this why we originally enjoyed playing MMOGs? I think not. Why then condone bastardizing our virtual gaming world?
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Comments
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Yes but remember to turn the ad blocker off when u visit Fileplanet.com
It really messes that site up, i guess because it's all ads
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Don't click here...no2
See post below.
Here is our stance on these ads and the reason for the board rules:
Board Rule: It exists because if we were to condone it, such as putting up a board for virtual trading, we would be providing people a forum through which they could make transactions. Thus, if party A is ripped off by party B on a board where we condone trading, then we run some risks that we would rather not run.
Advertisements: IGE's advertising contract with us has expired. In their place, we have this new campaign from the company you noticed. Also, as we accepted their bid to advertise with us, we are confident that this company employs adequate practices to ensure those who do wish to use their service get what they pay for.
Legally, all those things are allowed in games and are a big part of them - whether we like them or not. If the services they offered were not legal, they'd have long since been sued into oblivion.
So, once that hurdle is cleared, it begins a very slippery slope when journalistic sources start moralizing on advertisement. If we decide we do not like this particular aspect of the genre, then what stops us from forbidding advertising from games we did not review strongly? Arguments could then be made we could wipe out entire games simply on whether individuals here like them.
That is not fair to the advertisers, nor the readers. Like it or not, websites - like all other journalistic mediums - rely on advertising to survive. Traditionally, most sources have refused to moralize when it comes to advertising (save in the most blatant of circumstances). What would you do if the New York Times refused to run ads for one of the two major political parties? An argument could be made.
To date, I believe Craig and the team have done a good job of limiting advertising to things that may interest our readers (note the lack of car and dating service ads). This includes - whether or not you personally agree - services of the above nature. Does that mean we endorse them? No. It simply means that they have the right to pitch their product if they pay for the space. Then, it is up to you - the readers - to decide whether or not you want to click. Clearly, given these companies choose to advertise with us, there are a large number of people who do use their services and make the advertisements worth while.
I understand this is a hot topic for some, but this is our stance, and it is a stance that has an enormous precedent in newspapers, television, radio and all other mediums of journalism.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Here is our stance on these ads and the reason for the board rules:
Board Rule: It exists because if we were to condone it, such as putting up a board for virtual trading, we would be providing people a forum through which they could make transactions. Thus, if party A is ripped off by party B on a board where we condone trading, then we run some risks that we would rather not run.
Advertisements: IGE's advertising contract with us has expired. In their place, we have this new campaign from the company you noticed. Also, as we accepted their bid to advertise with us, we are confident that this company employs adequate practices to ensure those who do wish to use their service get what they pay for.
Legally, all those things are allowed in games and are a big part of them - whether we like them or not. If the services they offered were not legal, they'd have long since been sued into oblivion.
So, once that hurdle is cleared, it begins a very slippery slope when journalistic sources start moralizing on advertisement. If we decide we do not like this particular aspect of the genre, then what stops us from forbidding advertising from games we did not review strongly? Arguments could then be made we could wipe out entire games simply on whether individuals here like them.
That is not fair to the advertisers, nor the readers. Like it or not, websites - like all other journalistic mediums - rely on advertising to survive. Traditionally, most sources have refused to moralize when it comes to advertising (save in the most blatant of circumstances). What would you do if the New York Times refused to run ads for one of the two major political parties? An argument could be made.
To date, I believe Craig and the team have done a good job of limiting advertising to things that may interest our readers (note the lack of car and dating service ads). This includes - whether or not you personally agree - services of the above nature. Does that mean we endorse them? No. It simply means that they have the right to pitch their product if they pay for the space. Then, it is up to you - the readers - to decide whether or not you want to click. Clearly, given these companies choose to advertise with us, there are a large number of people who do use their services and make the advertisements worth while.
I understand this is a hot topic for some, but this is our stance, and it is a stance that has an enormous precedent in newspapers, television, radio and all other mediums of journalism.
Nice post Lepidus
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Here is our stance on these ads and the reason for the board rules:
Board Rule: It exists because if we were to condone it, such as putting up a board for virtual trading, we would be providing people a forum through which they could make transactions. Thus, if party A is ripped off by party B on a board where we condone trading, then we run some risks that we would rather not run.
Advertisements: IGE's advertising contract with us has expired. In their place, we have this new campaign from the company you noticed. Also, as we accepted their bid to advertise with us, we are confident that this company employs adequate practices to ensure those who do wish to use their service get what they pay for.
Legally, all those things are allowed in games and are a big part of them - whether we like them or not. If the services they offered were not legal, they'd have long since been sued into oblivion.
So, once that hurdle is cleared, it begins a very slippery slope when journalistic sources start moralizing on advertisement. If we decide we do not like this particular aspect of the genre, then what stops us from forbidding advertising from games we did not review strongly? Arguments could then be made we could wipe out entire games simply on whether individuals here like them.
That is not fair to the advertisers, nor the readers. Like it or not, websites - like all other journalistic mediums - rely on advertising to survive. Traditionally, most sources have refused to moralize when it comes to advertising (save in the most blatant of circumstances). What would you do if the New York Times refused to run ads for one of the two major political parties? An argument could be made.
To date, I believe Craig and the team have done a good job of limiting advertising to things that may interest our readers (note the lack of car and dating service ads). This includes - whether or not you personally agree - services of the above nature. Does that mean we endorse them? No. It simply means that they have the right to pitch their product if they pay for the space. Then, it is up to you - the readers - to decide whether or not you want to click. Clearly, given these companies choose to advertise with us, there are a large number of people who do use their services and make the advertisements worth while.
I understand this is a hot topic for some, but this is our stance, and it is a stance that has an enormous precedent in newspapers, television, radio and all other mediums of journalism.
Ya its a nice answer alright...too nice...like you've been preparing to answer it for a while.
You know it would make a good debate...what does it say when some americans are too lazy to even play video games, they pay someone else to do it for them.
THough on a side note i have nothing but respect and admiration for the start up companies taking advantage of that. 
Yes, of course, because we all know nobody from any other country in the world buys these services. Only Americans buy them right?
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Jorev, while we may disagree on some things, i will tell you that i fully agree with this statement.
I would also like to ask the Editor who he thinks has classified the secondary market "Legal". All you need to do is read through one of the end user license agreements for these games and you will find that this is NOT in the least bit legal. Unfortunately this subject counts as new frontiers in law enforcement. IT WILL CHANGE HOWEVER, there are companies working on it, which i'll mention further in the post.
Right now the secondary market is thriving, some games are even build around it, Second Life for example has game money that actually has a conversion rate to US dollars. Though it may be fine in games such as these, in other games it does a lot of harm. Games that are not built with the secondary market in mind, but still have virtual economies, take tremendous damage from the incentives of real life cash. Bottom feeding and farming are 2 enormous factors that are ruining games today. Farmers pollute the economy with thousands of the same items and create mudflation, a phenomenon that is the opposite of real life inflation. This results in all but the highest level content in a game becoming obsolete, due to readily available items and equipment that is extremely cheap and overpowered for the characters level. This thereby eliminates all risk and reward from content that was actually created for the appropriate levels and trivializes the game. The game is then broken and unenjoyable.
So that is what i see the secondary market most profoundly impacting, but other issues such as fairness and accomplishment and some other aspects could also be considered.
Some people may tell me that this is my opinion but belive me, i have seen this happening in almost all the MMO games i've played, and they are going on at this very moment.
Besides it should be the RIGHT of the developers, the creators of this content to say "hey, we put our blood, sweat and tears into this thing and we don't want some other party profiteering off of it and ruining what we have made", And again look at an EULA and you will see they say exactly that.
So if we want to call ourselves an MMO community then why are we letting it go on and harm the very games we love?
Here is a pretty new network that joins all game sites and guilds that oppose the secondary market:
http://www.nogold.org/
So far WOW, Guild Wars, and Vanguard:SOH community AND Developers have joined together under this network, no doubt MMORPG.com would be a huge addition, unfortunately the staff here are apparently of different views. It would be nice for them to at least look into however. Maybe read some of the views of developers and community. The link labeled "why?" at the top of the page also reinforces what i am saying and what many, many others have come to realize as well.
Considering how recent opposers of the secondary market have included big names such as Blizzard(with its banning of thousands of accounts), PC Gamer magazine (with their announcement of no more Secondary market ads), Guild Wars developers (who have commented on affore mentioned site), It is obvious that the creators of these games don't support what is going on either. Not to mention Sigil Games partnership with Microsoft Games who have vowed to put an end to the selling and buying, and forge strong alliances with other Developers and publishers, and hopefully gain the attention of the law and put weight behind Intellectual Property rights in games.
Here are 2 quotes from Sigils(CEO Brad McQuid, co-developer of EQ, acclaimed by many as graddaddy of the modern MMOG) official FAQ to back up the above statement:
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11.2 How do you feel about players selling accounts, items, and other in-game property outside of the game, in auctions and/or for real money?
__________________________________________________________________________________
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1.11 Is there a plan to hamper IGE type companies?
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Also, i realize some of this may seem a little strong but i do not mean any disrespect of your opinions, i just wanted to provide some information on the subject. Certainly if the site holds its same values i will still love it, however i will never stop fighting until the secondary market collapses once and for all.
Thank You for reading,
~Dunadurium
"Silly rabbit, WoW's for kids"
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dunadurium ,
Thank you for your comments. I am aware of the issues in this debate, but when it comes down to it at its most simple form: the companies would be sued into oblivion if what they did was illegal. Given that no one has even tried, it suggests the law is on their side.
If that changes, I am sure our policies will too, but until that bridge is crossed, any judgement we make is a moral one.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
It doesn't necessarily mean that they have been preparing an answer to us. It might simply mean that they have given the issue some thought prior to allowing such advertisements. And if they've given it some thought, they would naturally have a well thought out and nice answer for us.
However, I don't think the reason these companies haven't been sued into the next world is that they are not thwarting the developers, breaking their designs / rules and such. I think it is because the laws have not been written to deal with this kind of issue.
The companies never agreed to the EULA. It is the player alone who breaks the EULA, and if the most severe action the developer has reserved for breach of agreement is account ban, then there might be very little to work with against a company that can afford lawyers that would be good enough for the devil. (No religious implications of any kind intended)
Somebody, possibly IGE, brought up the legal detail that they don't sell goods/items, but a service. The pixel weapon, or all that gold, it is not a tangible product, the acquisition of such is a service, and thus "cannot" fall under the EULA.
I know this topic is being debated in Adellion. We're not debating if we should allow this kind of trade or not, we're trying to figure out how on earth we might prevent it, or how to keep it at a minimum. And we find that it is going to be horribly difficult. eBay cannot be targeted. They just provide a medium for others, and at best we can get their user for "misuse of eBay account" if we can agree with eBay on that. This isn't straightforward. And I'm not well versed in law. We have our stance, a few basic ideas, and we're handing it over to the lawyers to get as few loopholes as possible. I don't know this, I never actually used eBay.
If a leveling company levels your character, then it is the character owner who agreed to something, and broke the agreement by giving character control to somebody else. Or we'd have to let the EULA pop up on every logon, with an: This account is the property of <Gaming company> licensed for use by <user> only. Any other entity accessing this account must log out at this point, or have unlawfully...
And I'd never go for the "Newspapers do it, so it should be alright for us." But the ball isn't in mmorpg.com's court here. Somebody needs to make it a bleeding obvious breach of law to provide certain services where the game owner/developer has forbidden it. Then the advertisements would go down soon enough because the advertised bussiness is actually illegal.
The future: Adellion
Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually
Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants)
Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens)
Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
Yes, exactly!
Thank you for that.
Is there no way though, to write in an EULA that any services providing the players of said game to sell, buy or otherwise trade any content for real world currency that was created by [developers of said game] is not legal. It was not the intent of [company] to use the content in such ways and is detrimental to the product, and thus incures losses for the company?
I mean, there must be some way to write that so there are no loopholes. Recording companies did it to napster, but i guess there the losses were more provable.
~Dunadurium
"Silly rabbit, WoW's for kids"
************************
The more I look into this the more it SICKENS me. Screw the legality of the issue...I have strong moral reservations.
Anyone who uses the services of companies like IGE or supports them are entering into a moral cesspool not for their impact on our ficticious worlds. but for the actual REAL world social impacts. Its a totally different issue of buying some UO gold on ebay.
The vision of a bunch of miserable people sitting in a sweatshop grinding away on video games all day for a buck an hour so they can support their family is discusting. As a gamer enthusasist of several years I consider this a BASTARDIZATION of the whole spirit of gaming.
We have gone too far as a society and as a community of enthusasists if this is type of demand our hobbies place on the weak and destitute.
I respect MMORPG's "neutrality" with regard to advertising, but I really wish you would stand up and take a moral stance against this highly discusting practice.........maybe you need to disclose how much money you need and see if we will donate to keep the lights on.
I realize that half of the stuff I wear is made in sweatshops like this, but that issue is for another day and time. Personally, I choose to draw the line here - on this issue. I do not think the community should sit idle and watch something that is for pure fun be capitalized.
Too many times in history the weak are extorted by the strong....I reccommend MMORPG suspend their neutrality and stay away from supporting the sale of ingame currency/items for real cash......in the end i respect that this is not your issue alone....but I don't know how much I can support a journalistic site like this if it supports this type of activity.
Don't support these sweatshops, their negative impact on games and people's REAL lives.
Although it is within the website's right to do this (I guess), it's just sad. Completely kills the spirit of playing MMO's and I find it hard to believe that other advertisers are that hard to find.
But whatever.... that's just my opinion.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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[quote]Originally posted by Lepidus
Like it or not, websites - like all other journalistic mediums - rely on advertising to survive. Traditionally, most sources have refused to moralize when it comes to advertising (save in the most blatant of circumstances). What would you do if the New York Times refused to run ads for one of the two major political parties? An argument could be made.
I understand this is a hot topic for some, but this is our stance, and it is a stance that has an enormous precedent in newspapers, television, radio and all other mediums of journalism.[/b][/quote]
Lepidus, hi -- long time lurker here, first post.
You aren't seriously contending that mmorpg.com is a journlistic effort, are you?
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I almost choked on my drink when I read the above quote. Do you sincerely believe that this site meets any basic standard of journalism?
I'm very interested to know the answer, and know where the folks making the editorial decisions received their journalistic training -- including ethics 101 and the difference between news and posting press releases wholesale.
Let's talk about this -- maybe you can change my impression, if you care to.
MMORPG.COM is great entertainment content, yes. But journalism??
The News Articles and Interviews on the site are very journalistic. Also the game reviews are better quality than most on the 'net...
If you're talking about the FORUMS of course they're not journalistic. Get a grip bro... they provide the forums for us to bicker on
They do, however, have lots of NEWS on this site and that, de-facto, is journalism. Whether you like it or not doesn't change that.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Woot a sticky thread for me to put up the only sensible position on this debate for posterity. Or for at least as long as the thread stays up
Firstly to Rekindle. Mate you are probably wearing a Tshirt, Jeans and Sneakers all made in sweatshops. Get naked or get over it. In the Western World we live at the expense of the rest of the planet. Lucky us, poor them. Have you visited Asia ? Do you have any first hand experience of the lives of people in these countries ? I have, I do. If you havnt, then you are just spewing out stuff you heard on TV or your parents told you. The whole thing is far more complex than you try and make out. Indeed for some people sweatshop work is the ONLY work they can get. Would you deny them and their kids a bowl of rice so you can feel better about the game your playing ?
As to the Ads for Virtual Trading and the ENTIRE Virtual trading industry :
1. MMORPG.com has the right to put up ads for ANYTHING they deem suitable to be advertised. It is their site and their call. They make their decisions based on commerical viability like any good business.
2. The ENTIRE virtual gear/currency industry runs because EVERY MMO that has tradeable commodities FAILS to police their own EULA's FULLSTOP! End of Discussion!
Anytime Blizzard, SOE, Origin, NC Soft etc etc wanted to police their own EULAs and stop the trade at it's source they could. Instead they prefer to take the subscriptions of the gold farmers and leave them in their user base because that is the most financially viable way to proceed for them. Its not rocket surgery. If it was more profitable for them to police their EULAs thats what they would do. These games are a business. No decisions are made with the expectation of reducing profits, just think about it.
Every single person who has ever complained about gold farmers has said time and time again that they could take you out in to their chosen game and show you gold farmers anytime. They complain that they are constantly competing with these farmers for limited resources in the finite areas of the endgames of any MMO you want to name.
So lets aply a tiny bit of logic (try and stay with me). If YOU can find these farmers so easily, what makes you think the Devs cant ? Why is it, do you think that now and then we see a "token" banning of a few dozen players or more, yet in no time at all things are back to the same old same old ? Thats because the devs will only act in the most EXTREME, blatent and highly reported cases, if at all. Thats because everytime they ban someone they kiss hundreds of dollars goodbye.
The day developers and managers of our games start policing their EULAs I will be lining up with the rest of you to start working on the next level of this problem which is indisputably the marketing just as you see it here at MMORPG.com. Until that day I consider it both glib and self satisfying to even suggest that MMORPG.com and other sites like it take a stand that the developers of the games themselves are unwilling to take.
3. The vurtual traders like IGE etc have fashioned a perfectly legal and extremely viable business from this complete lack of management on behalf of MMO developers. They have used classic business skills to recognise a niche market and fill it. Far from hating them, I am in awe of them and only wish I had thought of it and had the motivation to carry it through.
As for the so called "moral" implications..... Well this is bordering on the nonsensical to even use the word morals in relation to this debate. It is so meaningless on a cosmic scale as to render the word moral virtualy (no pun) superfluous in this context. If you want to get your panties knotted about business ethics then start with something like companies producing land mines and work your way backwards. You should get to the morals of MMO gaming in about 400 years or so....
Lastly to address the selling of "stuff" on Ebay. This is even simpler and it also comes back to the game developers. Any MMO Company can contact Ebay at ANYTIME and tell them to disallow auctions of their virtual property on the basis that infringes upon thier intellectual and trademark agreements. Ebay will remove any listings IMMEDIATELY and without question. So again the problem lies in the complete lack of will or blatent profiteering (whichever you prefer) of the owners and managers of the games themselves.
So if you want to whine at least direct it at the poeple who deserve the whining.
nb. I use the word Dev to describe anyone involved with an MMO at a management level.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
You cannot resist the market forces of supply and demand. As long as people have time and desire money, they will seek out those that have money and desire time. That is the one of the essential transactions being conducted with virtual item resale.
This is a human cultural issue. If game designers wish to deal with this issue they must include it in their game design in some form or another. Punitive measures (bannings, reseller shutdowns) are only stopgap measures, and they are always slow in response and underwhelming in effect. You cannot stem the tide of human behavior by standing in front of it screaming for it to stop.
While I understand the argument for and against I will never fault them for finding advertising that allows us to continue to use and axcess this site for free.
As good as Alakazam was it is now a paid for fee service. If there is a question I have about current or even past mmorpgs I can still ask it here and get answers, there list of current and up coming mmorpgs are nice and so are the reviews, we see both sides even if it may hurt there revenue or advertising dollars.
This site provides a great service to gamers and I am glad they exist.
Hello all, this is my first post . I have been visiting this site for a couple of weeks and i think it's a great resource for people with our particular addiction. However, when i finally noticed the gold selling ad, i was really put off. I'd like to thank Danundarium (sp?) for pointing out a very critical impact of the gold whores on every player of the game. Dumping tons and tons of game currency into the player economy causes inflation for everyone, not just the people who take part in the illegal activity. I have been playing MMOs for about 10 years now, and its my opinion that saturation of game economy with high end items is part of the reason that games lose their appeal. Gold sellers speed up this process by allowing any player to purchase high end items with RL cash instead of in game work. The impact of this activity affects everyone who plays the game, and quite honestly, it pisses me off.
That being said, the problem (IMO) is caused by everyone involved. The sellers, the buyers, the devs, and the sites that advertise all help to support the early decay of our favorite MMOs. It is illegal to buy or sell in game property for RL cash in most games. It's stated in the EULA, which is a legal contract. The reason most games haven't tried to stop the action through legal venues is because its just too expensive to get these people into court. Plus, it wouldn't really do much good. Yes, record companies had the supreme court shut down Napster, but it didn't put an end to pirate downloads by any means. However, i think that most game devs could easily shove gold selling back into the fringe if they would simply enforce on their own terms. They could take all the profit from gold farming by doing a little undercover research, buy the minmum amount possible then shut down the account involved in the sale. If gold farmers have to continuosly buy new CD keys and switch IPs then the business will stop being profitable and cease. The game designers aren't doing this because the majority of players aren't demanding it. They have a business plan that involves the expected lifespan of the game, and any time past that planned lifespan is simply iceing on the cake. If we (those of us who don't buy gold and know how it hurts our game) simply make it known that we aren't playing a game that condones this activity, and use our wallets to make the statement, I guarantee that Blizzard, Mythic, SOE, or Turbine would magically find an immediate solution very quickly. Apparently though, most of the consumer base either buys gold, or doesn't mind other people buying gold. That's why it's still a part of our game.
This website has advertisments for gold sellers because it has lowered its standards, and would rather take the easy road and sell out to the highest (or lowest) bidder. As with most publications, the creative/journalistic department and the business department have different objectives and not much communcation between themselves. Some responsible businesses make decisions based on the impact of their product on the community all the time. Other, not so responsible, businesses only worry about the bottom line. Once we, as consumers, make it known what type of businesses we prefer to deal with, they will adjust their model accordingly.
BTW this is just one example of what happens when consumers settle for what is offered to them instead of demanding what they really want. Sorry it was so long
Which FF Character Are You?
I know that Sigil let go of all the fansites that were purchased by IGE,Cindy Bowens also stated that representives from IGE showed to offer a deal but instead were shown the exit with a "Don't come back" sign.
I wonder also if Brad McQaid when he did the interview with this site not too long ago was aware that this site has decided to take "plat/gold" seller dollars as adverts.
If they let go of those fansites then I wonder what thier stance is when they do interviews with sites that run IGE like companies adverts.
Or maybe he wasn't aware of it at the time and this site decided not to let him know,very interesting indeed.
Kinda funny actually,interviewing a lead dev from a upcoming game,whose official stance towards plat,gold,power leveling companies is well known, with ads to buy plat plastered on the home page.
I doubt if he even know.
Ok one at a time.
Players capping out and starting ALT's does as much to dump money into the economy of ANY MMO and inflates the prices of basic good, as gold selling does. Dont agree ? Lets see your facts and figures.
The activity is not "illegal". If you believe it is please provide a reference to the State, Local or Federal law you are refering to.
If the games werent so universally boring, gold sellers would have a greatly reduced market. Many people buy in at the top to avoid the grind which is more like gum surgery than entertainment.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Breach of Contract and Illegality are two very different things. Check it out, do some reading.
There would be no point and indeed it would be almost imposible for an MMO company to sue someone for breach of contract in relation to gold selling. The court would most likely just find that they should have policed their EULA in the first place and excluded the party from the game. In fact I would think that if anything the court would find in favour of the gold seller.
This makes no sense to me at all... maybe you can ellaborate.
Private file sharing software is still alive and well. Napster may be gone but Limewire, Edonkey and countless others still exist. Nothing has changed.
MMO Management staff enforcing their own EULAs is the one and only sensible argument in this entire debate. All they would have to do (for example) is remove currency and make all items soulbound and no drop and and its game over.
I repeat ..... The Devs and managers take the monthly subscriptions of the gold sellers with the same happy grin as your money as a genuine player. Dont ever fool yourself that they dont.
If you feel so strongly. Email the company who makes the game. Lay off MMORPG.com who are just advertising a perfectly legal business and providing you with free access to this site to trash them.
Oh the Irony!
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
this is from the DAoC EULA:
Access to the System and playing the Game is intended for the entertainment, enjoyment and recreation of individual natural persons, and not as corporate, business, commercial, or income-seeking activities. Corporations, associations, partnerships, joint ventures, limited liability companies, artificial persons, and other business or other entities that are not a single, individual natural person, are not eligible to establish Accounts, to access the System, or to play the Game, nor is anyone who is acting for or on behalf of or in the course of the business of, any such artificial person or entity. Except as expressly permitted by the current EUALA, accessing the System and/or playing the Game for commercial, business, or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited. BY CLICKING THE "I ACCEPT" AND "CONFIRMED" BUTTONS, AND PROVIDING US WITH A CREDIT CARD NUMBER, YOU REPRESENT THAT YOU ARE ELIGIBLE TO ESTABLISH AN ACCOUNT, ACCESS THE SYSTEM, AND PLAY THE GAME, AND THAT YOU ARE NOT ACCESSING THE SYSTEM OR PLAYING THE GAME FOR A PROHIBITED PURPOSE
when i stated that selling in game product for RL cash was illegal, i meant that it was breach of contract and could put someone in civil court. I think that most of the readers got the idea, and, agree or not, knew what i was talking about. However, since you couldn't figure it out, i started thinking about it and i realized that when a party enters any binding agreement with an intent to decieve the other party, they are commiting fraud. Fraud is a felony in my state, and since it involves me using a credit card based in Indiana, signing a contract that originated in North Carolina(i think that's where Mythic's office is) it quickly becomes a federal offense. Like i said before, though, the company who owns the game would have too much trouble getting the offending parties into court.
The best way to deal with it is by policing in game activities and enforcing their own EULA.
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You can buy 100 DAoC Plat for $67.49 or 20 plat for something like $15. There is no way you can tell me that if i max my level then make an alt that i will dump 100 plat back into the economy with no time involved.
I can't understand why you are even arguing that point. Gold farmers run anywhere from 3-5 characters at once and all they do is farm for money. Their time on the server amounts to zero because they are only adding plat to the economy and not really PLAYING at all. No guilds, no groups, no quests, no RvR, nothing but farming 24/7.
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BTW i responded to your points 1 and 2 in reverse order, but i think you could see that
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I don't really have a problem with PL services. I think they are lame, but they don't really affect my gameplay. If a person only wants to play end game, and doesn't have the time to level up the character then then they can pay someone else for PL. There is still a character being played when he is gets done being PLd. He just missed out on a huge aspect of the game. I agree with you, MMoRPGs should make the leveling experince more interesting and involving. However, we, as gamers, should also stop pushing them so damn hard. The mad dash to max out levels speeds up burnout, and forces a game design to keep adding new end game content. Game designers literally have to start working on a new expansion before a game goes retail because they want to have a carrot to hold in front of the power gamers.
Hard core gamers should accept alot of the blame for the lack of content in the new MMOs.
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If i were to design a game, it absolutely would not have a designer designated currency. I'd let players use a barter system. However, making all items bind on pickup would make a player driven economy impossible. The economy is a very important part of a game.
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I have sent emails, argued my point on in-game chat channels, and oh! posted on forums. Gold farmers help games die before their time. It is everyone's responsibility to put a stop to it if they claim to care about the genre. I'm not trashing this site. I'm stating the facts. I don't think that the mods of this forum ever argued that gold farming is good for a game. However, they did argue that even though it's bad for a game, they have to use advertising to pay their bills
I also know that it'd be alot easier for me to buy 100 plat with my mastercard, then go to housing and buy all the scrolls and gear my character will ever need. I don't do that though.
Which FF Character Are You?
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
A question that was brought forth to Brad Mcquaid was.
"Sigil's stance on selling items/money outside the game has been made very clear.What steps will be taken to discourage these actions"
Brads answer.
"Aside from what has been done in the past(Warning,banning ect.) we also have some ideas that we want to pursue with other MMOG developers in the legal arena"
I was curious does Sigil know that MMORGP.com now carries advertising for plat buying and powerleveling services and if say this site did indeed tell him,do you think he would have still done the interview?.
Because it sure sounds like they have a Zero tolerance policy,now please don't get me wrong or misunderstand me that they will come after you legally but do you think they would sit down for another interview after you told Sigil PR people that you're site now carries advertising for plat selling for which they are so against.
I look forward to another interview if you should happpened to get another chance to interview Sigil.
Could you include in one of your questions on how they feel about the secondary market and sites that advertise for such services and thier effect on MMO's since as you say is a hot issue amoung players.......cheers!