That has GOT to sting in the minds of the PK doods.
I shalll have to say grats on a battle well fought.
Now we wait for all the excuses, "lag" just wont cut it in this one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just lucky some of you werent around for UO year one because 99% of you dont even know what open PvP is, you just think your against it on principle without ever having actually experienced it.
Pretty sad really, because far frm feeling stung, as a one eyed advocate of open pvp I feel sorry for those who have made their decisions based on fear and weakness when you dont even know what your missing.
Your loss not ours.
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
This is why I'm waiting for The Chronicle. Open PvP, full looting, completely skill based, perma-death (for the stronger, "main" characters or normal, MMO death for "regular" characters). That's a man's MMO.
Originally posted by GIRO the sad thing is its more accurate to say 'your loss and ours'
True dat
Popularity as it converts to commercial success overwhelms quality and diversity.... same as modern music, movies, everything. Better safe with vanilla than risky with chocolate
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Of course it never occurs to you that people play video games for FUN, and most people don't consider getting ganked by a mob of 12 year olds and then subjected to endless tells of "haha pwned" as "fun".
Trust me...guys like that (and probably you, given the verbage of your posts) is no loss to "us"
ahhhhhhhhhhh the age old 12 year olds beat me up and laugh at me argument!!! no i wouldnt consider that fun either(i wouldnt admit to that lack in skill level)..but whats your point??? that everyone who kills you and laughs is 12 years old and your useless at pvp? that post is pissing against the wind ...make a more educated argument next time!!...of course it isnt fun being killed or ganked....it isnt fun in any game online or offline...but it is fun in any game to avoid being killed online of offline..video games are fun becuase ultimately in 99% of them you play to avoid being killed...especially in online games...so why do mmos have to change this winning combination??? go and play tale in the desert
The FFA PVP market is so small, I doubt you will ever get a game that gives you it, and if you do, it won't be popular. People don't shell out 15$ a month to be ganked by 10 people who started a year before them and lose everything. Why don't you play Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, or any of the dozens of games with FFA PVP out? Do you simply enjoy killing someone and thinking of how you ruined the game for them? Or do you really think it makes you "Uber", skilled, or cool? A game with a RPG ruleset and FFA PVP has NO skill, just items, stats, and ablities. A FPS or stratagy game HAS a large skill factor, everyone is on the same playing field (No uber item or high level to unbalance you from someone else.), but some people can't play those good, guess that might be the reason they go around forums whining for a FFA PVP MMORPG.
I'll tell you what, you should go play Diablo 2 and its hardcore online pvp. Its fun, because you don't have to waste money. When you die you learn something new, and you can go and apply that experience to the next time you encounter someone. Thing is you don't lose anything but time, you don't lose any money. But in essence in a FFA PVP MMORPG, you made that person you killed waste money, and people don't like to waste money, so games like that are never at the top.
look at the home page and look what is the highest rated game on this website...then research what this game is about! if it isnt people telling me ffa pvp games will not exist becuase the market is so small (eve, darkfall, chronicle, roma victor etc) its people telling me games like that are never at the top...its contradiction after contradiction...and the funny thing is out of this whole argument is that ive never been a ganker or pker ive always helped people thru every mmo ive played....but im still open minded enough to realise the excitement and adrenalin freeform pvp brings to a game
Originally posted by GIRO ahhhhhhhhhhh the age old 12 year olds beat me up and laugh at me argument!!! no i wouldnt consider that fun either(i wouldnt admit to that lack in skill level)..but whats your point??? that everyone who kills you and laughs is 12 years old and your useless at pvp? that post is pissing against the wind ...make a more educated argument next time!!...of course it isnt fun being killed or ganked....it isnt fun in any game online or offline...but it is fun in any game to avoid being killed online of offline..video games are fun becuase ultimately in 99% of them you play to avoid being killed...especially in online games...so why do mmos have to change this winning combination??? go and play tale in the desert
It was an educated argument, you just lacked the ability to read between the lines.
A 12 year old isn't going to beat me. For the record, though I'm not a PvP fan, I'm actually pretty good at it. Years of playing MajorMUD and having to PvP on a 2400 baud modem will really hone a guy's reflexes. Also, that game was pretty hardcore in PvP...you had 9 lives, got a few back each level. Run out, your character is gone. Die and everything you had is gone. But NOBODY is going to beat a gang of 5 12 year olds, and NOBODY is going to beat a level 50 12 year old when you'r elevel 4. Which is what PvP in MMO's has become--an era in which hormonal little boys log on for no other reason than to show their "uberness" against people who's CHARACTER'S are completely overmatched, if not in skill.
And as long as MMO's have those types of people, PvP will be something the masses do not enjoy. Just a fact. In the old days, you could only attack people within a certain level range of you--that way there, nobody ever got attacked who didn't stand a chance of coming out on top. Nowadays a level 60 in WoW can go gank a level 5 all night long. In a skills based MMO, someone who's been playing for a year can go gank someone who doesn't even fully understand how the UI works yet. Result? Person gets frustrated and doesn't renew.
It's not the fault of the "carebears" that MMO's don't cater to PvP and that the masses want nothing to do with it. It's the fault of the PvP'ers themselves who have been abusing the openness of the gameplay aspect to make it as such to where the devs have had to make BUSINESS decisions regarding it, and kick it to the curb by and large in order to protect their subscription fees coming in.
Originally posted by GIRO look at the home page and look what is the highest rated game on this website...then research what this game is about! if it isnt people telling me ffa pvp games will not exist becuase the market is so small (eve, darkfall, chronicle, roma victor etc) its people telling me games like that are never at the top...its contradiction after contradiction...and the funny thing is out of this whole argument is that ive never been a ganker or pker ive always helped people thru every mmo ive played....but im still open minded enough to realise the excitement and adrenalin freeform pvp brings to a game
EvE Online is not all FFA PVP. It has areas that are though. Inside of Empire space there are different levels of security. If you shoot another player in a .9 (for example) security system. You will get destroyed by the NPC's policing the area.
It's a game where hardcore PVPers and Carebears have very specific roles and they both have a place in the universe of EvE. << --- wow, did that sound like a plug or what??
no it sounded like the most enjoyable part of the game is in one place and the glorified chat room is in the other, ive never heard of the .9 players making headlines in pcgamer magazine for example...but i have heard read and watched great player content plots unfold that inspire me and other gamers who play outside of the .9 security system. if anything you prove my point
Originally posted by GIRO no it sounded like the most enjoyable part of the game is in one place and the glorified chat room is in the other, I've never heard of the .9 players making headlines in pcgamer magazine for example...but i have heard read and watched great player content plots unfold that inspire me and other gamers who play outside of the .9 security system. if anything you prove my point
And yet you have failed to see one very large factor. CHOICE. it is all choice and opinion, no game is truly the best or worst, because everyone has a different opinion. If people saw and accepted this topics like these would not crop up. I respect your views GIRO and how you put them in a non-vulgar, calm, and polite way, but with all due respect making a headline in a magazine for a game isn't really glory, it isn't anything, it's just somep layers having their brand of fun (away from the people who have THEIR own brand of fun) and the media got involved.
I have heard of .9 players in eve getting a good amount of money, although most of them mine in .6 space. There is no such thing as carebear or hardcore, they are words invented by, how should I say...disgruntled...people, there is, I will say once more, only choice and opinion, you have yours and I have mine.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
i also respect your opinion gamewize...but it seems this debate is being dragged around every concievable corner it can to prove a point that is mostly wrong!!! nobody not even me is saying eve is the best game on this post....the mmorpg.com community are saying eve is the best game and my point is they have voted that becuase of the freeform and player driven plots this game allows the players to indulge in! choice created this and the choice of this websites opinion in whole therefore agrees with freeform and player driven plots. and i disagree when you say it means nothing that mmo makes a headline in a gaming magazine...thats like saying a superior product shudnt make a product related magazine simply becuase others who read the magazine have other options...its for the best for all of us that mmos reach the headlines!!!.... and if it takes disgruntled people to help get notice and bring more players then so be it
i also respect your opinion gamewize...but it seems this debate is being dragged around every concievable corner it can to prove a point that is mostly wrong!!! nobody not even me is saying eve is the best game on this post....the mmorpg.com community are saying eve is the best game and my point is they have voted that becuase of the freeform and player driven plots this game allows the players to indulge in! choice created this and the choice of this websites opinion in whole therefore agrees with freeform and player driven plots. and i disagree when you say it means nothing that mmo makes a headline in a gaming magazine...thats like saying a superior product shudnt make a product related magazine simply becuase others who read the magazine have other options...its for the best for all of us that mmos reach the headlines!!!.... and if it takes disgruntled people to help get notice and bring more players then so be it
That isn't true, from what I have heard the original game that started all of this wasn't based around Uber items. They were helpful but not overpowering. My sources are from a friend that played for years until EA bought it and messed it all up.
By "the original game that started it all", are you refering to Meridian 59 or UO? I didn't get a lot of time with Meridian 59 because the payment plan they had in place at the time put most modern cell phone subscriptions to shame. UO, on the other hand, got my money for about 6 monthes during the Second Age expansion. I picked it up because some of my friends at work were playing it and went on about UO like it was the nirvana of gaming. It actually bored the living hell out of me. This is probably because I ended up on a seperate server than my friends. It could just be that I wasn't a big player of PC RPGs. It probably could have been that I wanted to kill stuff rather than chop wood and make bows. And the interface didn't help either. No, Uo wasn't built around Uber items, but there was an optimal loadout for your character. If it hadn't been for the thieves, everyone would have had the same enchanted gear and as many exploding potions as they could carry.
GIRO wrote:
i dont know what games jimmy has played or hasnt played but it seems blatantly obvious that he wasnt there at the beggining of mmo's as the game he just described did exist at one time and 90% of the 'children' didnt scream!!??! who are you to assume that players will scream??? and jackilojohn your statement is spot and near enough sums up what happend to that game in question. your source seem far more realistic and reliable reliable than outbursts like this
When I finally got around to playing UO, I had come from a background of Airwarrior, Quake 2, Warlords (3 was where the series was at during that time I think), and several different old school wargames like The Ardennes Offensive, Steel Panthers, and The Operational Art of War (until the flaws in Norm Koger's statisics model became public). No, UO didn't have permadeath so the game I described HAS NEVER existed.
Yes, damn near everyone playing such a game would scream, especially the PKers. Maybe you've forgotten what the general attitude toward PKers was like at that time. Maybe you've forgotten about all the wanted boards for the orginal Diablo, warning players about PKers in the game. Maybe it just slipped your mind that there were more than a few guilds that centered around hunting, killing, and griefing PKers. Perhaps, in your rosey recollection, you've forgoten just how many people were running around with the sole purpose of griefing and PKing, only to cry all over the GMs shoes when they got what they deserved. I'd also like to point out that the two friends that I mentioned, who convinced me to buy UO, jumped the wagon and moved to EQ and never looked back. Both these guys were heavy into the PvP aspect of UO and they never so much as mentioned, let alone complained about, the lack of PvP in EQ. Hmmm, funny how grown-ups deal with change ain't it?
look at the home page and look what is the highest rated game on this website...then research what this game is about! if it isnt people telling me ffa pvp games will not exist becuase the market is so small (eve, darkfall, chronicle, roma victor etc) its people telling me games like that are never at the top...its contradiction after contradiction...and the funny thing is out of this whole argument is that ive never been a ganker or pker ive always helped people thru every mmo ive played....but im still open minded enough to realise the excitement and adrenalin freeform pvp brings to a game
Yeah, Eve is doing well and I wish it best of luck. If my computer could run it without sheering some of the text, I'd probably be playing right now. And yes, there is a market for FFA PvP. I'm planning on checking out Roma Victor when it comes out. I still think that FFA PvP should include permadeath and that towns should be gaurded by invincible steel golems / cyborgs / tank police / etc. I don't think that such a game will ever go past WoW. Amusment parks are more popular than adventure tours for a reason.
You weren't a ganker or PKer, so what? You want a cookie? If you killed said gankers and PKers, then you realize that GANKERS AND PKERS WHINED more than anyone else and killed FFA PvP. All this bullshit about "carebears" is just to incite people to pay attention to you even though your ideas are about as popular as Eugenics (white supremecy). If you eliminate the zerging, ganking, PKing underculture of the MMORPG PvP community, you get more of the games that you seem to want to play. All I can say is, good luck with that.
Eve isn't top rated because of the player driven plots. EVE is top rated because with the exception of one huge fault in its design, it's the most well-made, varied in terms of content, unique and polished MMO out there.
The one resaon it's not king of the hill in the MMO market is because of the open PK--it's high rating isn't because of open PK, it's in spite of it.
Some games are carebear, some aren't. Wouldn't it suck if all games were carebear? Wouldn't it suck if all games were PK oriented? Sometimes you're in the mood for a nice GTA:SA style riot & stomp, and sometimes you want to play Spore. If you always like the same thing, you don't have a personality, you have an obsession.
Originally posted by niksa Some games are carebear, some aren't. Wouldn't it suck if all games were carebear? Wouldn't it suck if all games were PK oriented? Sometimes you're in the mood for a nice GTA:SA style riot & stomp, and sometimes you want to play Spore. If you always like the same thing, you don't have a personality, you have an obsession.
/agreed
My preference is for open PvP but I think games like DAoC did the best job of accomodating everyone. Areas that were 99% safe to level up in followed by the choice of going out into the free combat zones has to be the ideal really.
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
You do realize that if we, the FFA PVP advocators, actually had a couple of decent mmo's that offered FFA PVP, there would be a lot less of these threads. Right now the current market for mmo's basically caters towards people that want to play in un-dynamic, static worlds with little to no risk. For those of us that want to be able to change the world as we see fit, we are basically left with two mmo's: Shadowbane, and EVE Online. Shadowbane is nearly dead, and EVE Online does not fit everyones playstyle.
So, I do believe we have a right to voice our opinions over the staleness(in our eyes) of almost all mmo's out there. To you it seems like whining. To us it is a cry to those in a position to develop games that there exists a market for FFA PVP. We simply want to see more FFA PVP mmo's created. If the roles were reveres and the mmo market were dominated by FFA PVP, all of you opposed to it would be doing the same thing we are...getting on the forums and voicing your discontent for choices you have.
Oh, and for all those that say: "Go play an fps, there is plenty of killing there." Seriously, think about what mmo's are and how they compare to FPS's. Are they similar at all? Not in the least bit. So please stop using that stupid rebuttal.
--------------------------------------------- Killer 86%, Socializer 53%, Explorer 33%, Achiever 26%
Let me put it to you this way. When people talk about "Griefers" and "Carebears" it's not about dynamic PVP at all, it's about a desire for victims. Trust me, I was there in the original UO and I was also in DSO (Dark Sun Online) which was even worse in some respects. Not to mention the kind of stuff that would happen in a lot of text-only MUDs I was involved in.
What the guy who is talking about a dynamic enviroment really wants it not to fight, but to screw someone else up. That is why the idea of fighting for points against a player who is ready and wants to fight (like in WoW) is not a satisfying experience for these people.
Face it, it's a rush to come up on some guy fighting a troll, kill him while he's at half health, finish off the troll, and then take all his gear and sell it to a pawn shop (or whatever). I've done it before, and thought it was quite fun (and I've been on the receiving end of it too, and it sucks).
The truth is that this kind of thing will never be recaptured again because in general people who are going to play in a FFA PVP game are going to all be wannabee predators and it's going to turn into a kind of slugfest that none of them will find fulfilling. The days when there were no options except for FFA PVP games are gone and will never be recaptured.
For example I do not have the time to invest in a true FFA PVP enviroment anymore, and I'm not likely to ever play one. I can enjoy "war" type PVP which is why I like games like WoW where I can decide what I want to do at any given point. As a result I did not play games like "Shadowbane" and people who didn't want to worry about that kind of thing at all did not play. In general it resulted in a lot of PVPers duking it out and having fun but feeling it didn't recapture exactly what they wanted when they started playing.
I hope I am articulating this properly, the point here is that the age of online RPG victimization is over, and will never be recaptured. Treasure your memories, and try and make do with what you can find.
As far as terms like "Carebear", I think it's funny actually. I mean how stupid do you expect people to be? Do you really think people who don't want to PVP are going to login to a FFA PVP with corpse looting, and continually let you terrorize them? Especially with all the options now availible.
Honestly, while there isn't any corpse looting or anything you might look into RF online though. Apparently there is a lot of PVE/Grind content, but there is also a robust world/PVP system with a lot behind it, and there are a lot of nasty things that can be done that have people wondering what will eventually be called an exploit and what will not (just from the chatter, I have not done much with it because I work full time and am also putting time into the WoW Battlegrounds on and off with it, I am working slowly toward an Ironbark staff).
Those who claim they want unhindered PvP are most likely those who use macro's, buy gold on e-bay, gank lowbies, and run when faced with a real challenge.
Your never going to have interesting PvP with everquest clones, and god knows that list of MMO games to the left of the screen are all everquest clones. Its either gank or be ganked, and if its a MMOFPS game like wwiionline or planetside, its camp-the-spawn. Theyre all the same. Realizing that theyre all everquest clones, I can enjoy World of Warcraft, since its the best everquest clone out there right now.
Comments
So essentially, the carebears won?
Cant say I am on any one side here but.
That has GOT to sting in the minds of the PK doods.
I shalll have to say grats on a battle well fought.
Now we wait for all the excuses, "lag" just wont cut it in this one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just lucky some of you werent around for UO year one because 99% of you dont even know what open PvP is, you just think your against it on principle without ever having actually experienced it.
Pretty sad really, because far frm feeling stung, as a one eyed advocate of open pvp I feel sorry for those who have made their decisions based on fear and weakness when you dont even know what your missing.
Your loss not ours.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
This is why I'm waiting for The Chronicle. Open PvP, full looting, completely skill based, perma-death (for the stronger, "main" characters or normal, MMO death for "regular" characters). That's a man's MMO.
A** Still Raw From Your Last SWG Subscription? Come join us at RLMMO.com
well said razorback...i couldnt have said it any better myself....except for 'your loss not ours'
the sad thing is its more accurate to say 'your loss and ours'
C
True dat
Popularity as it converts to commercial success overwhelms quality and diversity.... same as modern music, movies, everything. Better safe with vanilla than risky with chocolate
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Of course it never occurs to you that people play video games for FUN, and most people don't consider getting ganked by a mob of 12 year olds and then subjected to endless tells of "haha pwned" as "fun".
Trust me...guys like that (and probably you, given the verbage of your posts) is no loss to "us"
ahhhhhhhhhhh the age old 12 year olds beat me up and laugh at me argument!!! no i wouldnt consider that fun either(i wouldnt admit to that lack in skill level)..but whats your point??? that everyone who kills you and laughs is 12 years old and your useless at pvp? that post is pissing against the wind ...make a more educated argument next time!!...of course it isnt fun being killed or ganked....it isnt fun in any game online or offline...but it is fun in any game to avoid being killed online of offline..video games are fun becuase ultimately in 99% of them you play to avoid being killed...especially in online games...so why do mmos have to change this winning combination??? go and play tale in the desert
C
lol yeah ur kinda right but the company's who make em are rich so
look at the home page and look what is the highest rated game on this website...then research what this game is about! if it isnt people telling me ffa pvp games will not exist becuase the market is so small (eve, darkfall, chronicle, roma victor etc) its people telling me games like that are never at the top...its contradiction after contradiction...and the funny thing is out of this whole argument is that ive never been a ganker or pker ive always helped people thru every mmo ive played....but im still open minded enough to realise the excitement and adrenalin freeform pvp brings to a game
C
It was an educated argument, you just lacked the ability to read between the lines.
A 12 year old isn't going to beat me. For the record, though I'm not a PvP fan, I'm actually pretty good at it. Years of playing MajorMUD and having to PvP on a 2400 baud modem will really hone a guy's reflexes. Also, that game was pretty hardcore in PvP...you had 9 lives, got a few back each level. Run out, your character is gone. Die and everything you had is gone. But NOBODY is going to beat a gang of 5 12 year olds, and NOBODY is going to beat a level 50 12 year old when you'r elevel 4. Which is what PvP in MMO's has become--an era in which hormonal little boys log on for no other reason than to show their "uberness" against people who's CHARACTER'S are completely overmatched, if not in skill.
And as long as MMO's have those types of people, PvP will be something the masses do not enjoy. Just a fact. In the old days, you could only attack people within a certain level range of you--that way there, nobody ever got attacked who didn't stand a chance of coming out on top. Nowadays a level 60 in WoW can go gank a level 5 all night long. In a skills based MMO, someone who's been playing for a year can go gank someone who doesn't even fully understand how the UI works yet. Result? Person gets frustrated and doesn't renew.
It's not the fault of the "carebears" that MMO's don't cater to PvP and that the masses want nothing to do with it. It's the fault of the PvP'ers themselves who have been abusing the openness of the gameplay aspect to make it as such to where the devs have had to make BUSINESS decisions regarding it, and kick it to the curb by and large in order to protect their subscription fees coming in.
Nobody to blame but yourself.
EvE Online is not all FFA PVP. It has areas that are though. Inside of Empire space there are different levels of security. If you shoot another player in a .9 (for example) security system. You will get destroyed by the NPC's policing the area.
It's a game where hardcore PVPers and Carebears have very specific roles and they both have a place in the universe of EvE. << --- wow, did that sound like a plug or what??
no it sounded like the most enjoyable part of the game is in one place and the glorified chat room is in the other, ive never heard of the .9 players making headlines in pcgamer magazine for example...but i have heard read and watched great player content plots unfold that inspire me and other gamers who play outside of the .9 security system. if anything you prove my point
C
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
i also respect your opinion gamewize...but it seems this debate is being dragged around every concievable corner it can to prove a point that is mostly wrong!!! nobody not even me is saying eve is the best game on this post....the mmorpg.com community are saying eve is the best game and my point is they have voted that becuase of the freeform and player driven plots this game allows the players to indulge in! choice created this and the choice of this websites opinion in whole therefore agrees with freeform and player driven plots. and i disagree when you say it means nothing that mmo makes a headline in a gaming magazine...thats like saying a superior product shudnt make a product related magazine simply becuase others who read the magazine have other options...its for the best for all of us that mmos reach the headlines!!!.... and if it takes disgruntled people to help get notice and bring more players then so be it
C
i also respect your opinion gamewize...but it seems this debate is being dragged around every concievable corner it can to prove a point that is mostly wrong!!! nobody not even me is saying eve is the best game on this post....the mmorpg.com community are saying eve is the best game and my point is they have voted that becuase of the freeform and player driven plots this game allows the players to indulge in! choice created this and the choice of this websites opinion in whole therefore agrees with freeform and player driven plots. and i disagree when you say it means nothing that mmo makes a headline in a gaming magazine...thats like saying a superior product shudnt make a product related magazine simply becuase others who read the magazine have other options...its for the best for all of us that mmos reach the headlines!!!.... and if it takes disgruntled people to help get notice and bring more players then so be it
C
jackilojohn wrote:
That isn't true, from what I have heard the original game that started all of this wasn't based around Uber items. They were helpful but not overpowering. My sources are from a friend that played for years until EA bought it and messed it all up.
By "the original game that started it all", are you refering to Meridian 59 or UO? I didn't get a lot of time with Meridian 59 because the payment plan they had in place at the time put most modern cell phone subscriptions to shame. UO, on the other hand, got my money for about 6 monthes during the Second Age expansion. I picked it up because some of my friends at work were playing it and went on about UO like it was the nirvana of gaming. It actually bored the living hell out of me. This is probably because I ended up on a seperate server than my friends. It could just be that I wasn't a big player of PC RPGs. It probably could have been that I wanted to kill stuff rather than chop wood and make bows. And the interface didn't help either. No, Uo wasn't built around Uber items, but there was an optimal loadout for your character. If it hadn't been for the thieves, everyone would have had the same enchanted gear and as many exploding potions as they could carry.
GIRO wrote:
i dont know what games jimmy has played or hasnt played but it seems blatantly obvious that he wasnt there at the beggining of mmo's as the game he just described did exist at one time and 90% of the 'children' didnt scream!!??! who are you to assume that players will scream??? and jackilojohn your statement is spot and near enough sums up what happend to that game in question. your source seem far more realistic and reliable reliable than outbursts like this
When I finally got around to playing UO, I had come from a background of Airwarrior, Quake 2, Warlords (3 was where the series was at during that time I think), and several different old school wargames like The Ardennes Offensive, Steel Panthers, and The Operational Art of War (until the flaws in Norm Koger's statisics model became public). No, UO didn't have permadeath so the game I described HAS NEVER existed.
Yes, damn near everyone playing such a game would scream, especially the PKers. Maybe you've forgotten what the general attitude toward PKers was like at that time. Maybe you've forgotten about all the wanted boards for the orginal Diablo, warning players about PKers in the game. Maybe it just slipped your mind that there were more than a few guilds that centered around hunting, killing, and griefing PKers. Perhaps, in your rosey recollection, you've forgoten just how many people were running around with the sole purpose of griefing and PKing, only to cry all over the GMs shoes when they got what they deserved. I'd also like to point out that the two friends that I mentioned, who convinced me to buy UO, jumped the wagon and moved to EQ and never looked back. Both these guys were heavy into the PvP aspect of UO and they never so much as mentioned, let alone complained about, the lack of PvP in EQ. Hmmm, funny how grown-ups deal with change ain't it?
look at the home page and look what is the highest rated game on this website...then research what this game is about! if it isnt people telling me ffa pvp games will not exist becuase the market is so small (eve, darkfall, chronicle, roma victor etc) its people telling me games like that are never at the top...its contradiction after contradiction...and the funny thing is out of this whole argument is that ive never been a ganker or pker ive always helped people thru every mmo ive played....but im still open minded enough to realise the excitement and adrenalin freeform pvp brings to a game
Yeah, Eve is doing well and I wish it best of luck. If my computer could run it without sheering some of the text, I'd probably be playing right now. And yes, there is a market for FFA PvP. I'm planning on checking out Roma Victor when it comes out. I still think that FFA PvP should include permadeath and that towns should be gaurded by invincible steel golems / cyborgs / tank police / etc. I don't think that such a game will ever go past WoW. Amusment parks are more popular than adventure tours for a reason.
You weren't a ganker or PKer, so what? You want a cookie? If you killed said gankers and PKers, then you realize that GANKERS AND PKERS WHINED more than anyone else and killed FFA PvP. All this bullshit about "carebears" is just to incite people to pay attention to you even though your ideas are about as popular as Eugenics (white supremecy). If you eliminate the zerging, ganking, PKing underculture of the MMORPG PvP community, you get more of the games that you seem to want to play. All I can say is, good luck with that.
Eve isn't top rated because of the player driven plots. EVE is top rated because with the exception of one huge fault in its design, it's the most well-made, varied in terms of content, unique and polished MMO out there.
The one resaon it's not king of the hill in the MMO market is because of the open PK--it's high rating isn't because of open PK, it's in spite of it.
Some games are carebear, some aren't. Wouldn't it suck if all games were carebear? Wouldn't it suck if all games were PK oriented? Sometimes you're in the mood for a nice GTA:SA style riot & stomp, and sometimes you want to play Spore. If you always like the same thing, you don't have a personality, you have an obsession.
-Niksa
Looking for a real game.
/agreed
My preference is for open PvP but I think games like DAoC did the best job of accomodating everyone. Areas that were 99% safe to level up in followed by the choice of going out into the free combat zones has to be the ideal really.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
For all of you opposed to FFA PVP:
You do realize that if we, the FFA PVP advocators, actually had a couple of decent mmo's that offered FFA PVP, there would be a lot less of these threads. Right now the current market for mmo's basically caters towards people that want to play in un-dynamic, static worlds with little to no risk. For those of us that want to be able to change the world as we see fit, we are basically left with two mmo's: Shadowbane, and EVE Online. Shadowbane is nearly dead, and EVE Online does not fit everyones playstyle.
So, I do believe we have a right to voice our opinions over the staleness(in our eyes) of almost all mmo's out there. To you it seems like whining. To us it is a cry to those in a position to develop games that there exists a market for FFA PVP. We simply want to see more FFA PVP mmo's created. If the roles were reveres and the mmo market were dominated by FFA PVP, all of you opposed to it would be doing the same thing we are...getting on the forums and voicing your discontent for choices you have.
Oh, and for all those that say: "Go play an fps, there is plenty of killing there." Seriously, think about what mmo's are and how they compare to FPS's. Are they similar at all? Not in the least bit. So please stop using that stupid rebuttal.
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Killer 86%, Socializer 53%, Explorer 33%, Achiever 26%
I've kept my eye on Darkfall, it seems to have all those things what you wanted.
Though it has a bit twitchy combat what UO didn't have. But check it out.
www.darkfallonline.com
Let me put it to you this way. When people talk about "Griefers" and "Carebears" it's not about dynamic PVP at all, it's about a desire for victims. Trust me, I was there in the original UO and I was also in DSO (Dark Sun Online) which was even worse in some respects. Not to mention the kind of stuff that would happen in a lot of text-only MUDs I was involved in.
What the guy who is talking about a dynamic enviroment really wants it not to fight, but to screw someone else up. That is why the idea of fighting for points against a player who is ready and wants to fight (like in WoW) is not a satisfying experience for these people.
Face it, it's a rush to come up on some guy fighting a troll, kill him while he's at half health, finish off the troll, and then take all his gear and sell it to a pawn shop (or whatever). I've done it before, and thought it was quite fun (and I've been on the receiving end of it too, and it sucks).
The truth is that this kind of thing will never be recaptured again because in general people who are going to play in a FFA PVP game are going to all be wannabee predators and it's going to turn into a kind of slugfest that none of them will find fulfilling. The days when there were no options except for FFA PVP games are gone and will never be recaptured.
For example I do not have the time to invest in a true FFA PVP enviroment anymore, and I'm not likely to ever play one. I can enjoy "war" type PVP which is why I like games like WoW where I can decide what I want to do at any given point. As a result I did not play games like "Shadowbane" and people who didn't want to worry about that kind of thing at all did not play. In general it resulted in a lot of PVPers duking it out and having fun but feeling it didn't recapture exactly what they wanted when they started playing.
I hope I am articulating this properly, the point here is that the age of online RPG victimization is over, and will never be recaptured. Treasure your memories, and try and make do with what you can find.
As far as terms like "Carebear", I think it's funny actually. I mean how stupid do you expect people to be? Do you really think people who don't want to PVP are going to login to a FFA PVP with corpse looting, and continually let you terrorize them? Especially with all the options now availible.
Honestly, while there isn't any corpse looting or anything you might look into RF online though. Apparently there is a lot of PVE/Grind content, but there is also a robust world/PVP system with a lot behind it, and there are a lot of nasty things that can be done that have people wondering what will eventually be called an exploit and what will not (just from the chatter, I have not done much with it because I work full time and am also putting time into the WoW Battlegrounds on and off with it, I am working slowly toward an Ironbark staff).
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Those who claim they want unhindered PvP are most likely those who use macro's, buy gold on e-bay, gank lowbies, and run when faced with a real challenge.
Your never going to have interesting PvP with everquest clones, and god knows that list of MMO games to the left of the screen are all everquest clones. Its either gank or be ganked, and if its a MMOFPS game like wwiionline or planetside, its camp-the-spawn. Theyre all the same. Realizing that theyre all everquest clones, I can enjoy World of Warcraft, since its the best everquest clone out there right now.